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(Five Thirty-Eight)   "You know, not being in the Hall of Fame - that's my shtick," Pete Rose will tell you before signing "I'm Sorry I Bet On Baseball" for $300   (fivethirtyeight.com) divider line 64
    More: Asinine, Johnny Football, history of sport, Tom Glavine, John Rocker, Ernie Banks, John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Field of Dreams  
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794 clicks; posted to Sports » on 31 Jul 2014 at 1:34 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-31 12:32:51 PM  
How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.
 
2014-07-31 01:41:55 PM  
...or the best pitcher of the past 30 years.
 
2014-07-31 01:44:33 PM  

doubled99: ...or the best pitcher of the past 30 years.


Roy Halladay isn't eligible yet.
 
2014-07-31 01:49:09 PM  
Also, Pete Rose, while a great player, wasn't the best hitter of all time. Not even close.  He just played the longest.
 
2014-07-31 01:54:18 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.


Ugh. Rose is in the Hall of Fame, for crying out loud. He's all over the place in there. He's just not allowed to be a MEMBER of the HOF. That's the difference.

I hope he never gets in.
 
2014-07-31 02:06:19 PM  

Mateorocks: I hope he never gets in.



Do you have this same approach with players who took PEDs?
 
2014-07-31 02:08:52 PM  
I hope he gets in exactly 70 years after Shoeless Joe gets in.
 
2014-07-31 02:11:18 PM  
It is a lifetime ban. When he is dead, then enshrine him. Just make sure you put the good stuff and the bad stuff he did. No whitewashing.
 
2014-07-31 02:26:18 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.


Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?
 
2014-07-31 02:52:40 PM  

Gunny Highway: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?


He agreed to a lifetime ban, but says that he wasn't aware that would make him ineligible for the HoF, which seems unlikely. Then again there was never a rule stating flat out that a banned player was ineligible until after Rose signed his ban.

So technically correct?
 
2014-07-31 02:53:46 PM  

Gunny Highway: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?


He'll sign anything if you pay him enough.
 
2014-07-31 02:56:49 PM  
Pete should be in and the steroid boys should never be
 
2014-07-31 02:59:27 PM  
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

that's for demanding fiat currency for an autograph!
 
2014-07-31 03:00:21 PM  

MFAWG: Gunny Highway: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?

He agreed to a lifetime ban, but says that he wasn't aware that would make him ineligible for the HoF, which seems unlikely. Then again there was never a rule stating flat out that a banned player was ineligible until after Rose signed his ban.

So technically correct?


And didnt Selig give him a bunch of opportunities in the 90's to come clean and as a result the HOF ban would be terminated and he continued to cling to his lie?

/I have heard so many Rose HOF arguments between my father and uncles that the actural facts are hazy.
 
2014-07-31 03:07:02 PM  

Gunny Highway: MFAWG: Gunny Highway: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?

He agreed to a lifetime ban, but says that he wasn't aware that would make him ineligible for the HoF, which seems unlikely. Then again there was never a rule stating flat out that a banned player was ineligible until after Rose signed his ban.

So technically correct?

And didnt Selig give him a bunch of opportunities in the 90's to come clean and as a result the HOF ban would be terminated and he continued to cling to his lie?

/I have heard so many Rose HOF arguments between my father and uncles that the actural facts are hazy.


I think you're right. I do know the rule is called 'The Giamatti Rule', but it was just a formalization of something everyone assumed was true since 1934 or whatever
 
2014-07-31 03:07:35 PM  

happydude45: Pete should be in and the steroid boys should never be


which simple rule has been on the wall of every baseball clubhouse since the 1920s? hint: it's not "don't put weird shiat in your bodies which may or may not make you better at baseball"
 
2014-07-31 03:11:06 PM  
He may be the biggest douche ever, definitely in the top 20.
 
2014-07-31 03:14:35 PM  

The_Sponge: Mateorocks: I hope he never gets in.


Do you have this same approach with players who took PEDs?


Actually, no. Betting on baseball (while, you know, being a professional player and manager) is the golden sin for a variety of reasons.
 
2014-07-31 03:14:48 PM  

bglove25: Also, Pete Rose, while a great player, wasn't the best hitter of all time. Not even close.  He just played the longest.


Rose once said something to the effect of "I'm not saying I'm a better hitter than Ty Cobb.  I'm just saying I have more hits than him."
 
2014-07-31 03:16:52 PM  

bglove25: Also, Pete Rose, while a great player, wasn't the best hitter of all time. Not even close.  He just played the longest.


I wonder if we'll ever see a player-manager again.  He got more than a few extra at-bats simply by keeping himself in the lineup.  Imagine if he was on a team with a DH.
 
2014-07-31 03:17:47 PM  

loooongview1: bglove25: Also, Pete Rose, while a great player, wasn't the best hitter of all time. Not even close.  He just played the longest.

Rose once said something to the effect of "I'm not saying I'm a better hitter than Ty Cobb.  I'm just saying I have more hits than him."


And Rose didn't need a handicap to get those hits in.
 
2014-07-31 03:18:28 PM  
Pete Rose is a dick. He has more hits than anyone. The belongs in the HOF. He is still a dick.
 
2014-07-31 03:26:58 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Pete Rose is a dick. He has more hits than anyone. He belongs in the HOF. He is still a dick.


They said the same thing about Ty Cobb when he was first inducted with Babe.
 
2014-07-31 03:26:59 PM  

Mateorocks: The_Sponge: Mateorocks: I hope he never gets in.


Do you have this same approach with players who took PEDs?

Actually, no. Betting on baseball (while, you know, being a professional player and manager) is the golden sin for a variety of reasons.


Mateorocks: The_Sponge: Mateorocks: I hope he never gets in.


Do you have this same approach with players who took PEDs?

Actually, no. Betting on baseball (while, you know, being a professional player and manager) is the golden sin for a variety of reasons.



And PEDs aren't a "golden sin" as well?  You weren't pissed when Barry Bonds broke the home run record?
 
2014-07-31 03:27:39 PM  
D'oh!
 
2014-07-31 03:31:34 PM  
See, back then kids, sports commissioners weren't as smart as they'd later be, and Bart Giamatti didn't have a small podunk basketball team they could hide Pete Rose in for a while until the whole thing boiled over.
 
2014-07-31 03:35:54 PM  
Pete deserves to be in.  Tired of all the BS saying he doesn't.  I haven't read the report in a while, but I seriously don't think it said he bet during his playing career.  If that's so, he should be in.  Not just for his hits or his three rings, but because there wasn't an ounce of doubt in anyone's mind he belonged there before the scandal broke. (For the record, Joe Jackson should be in as well.)
 
2014-07-31 03:51:13 PM  

FriarReb98: Pete deserves to be in.  Tired of all the BS saying he doesn't.  I haven't read the report in a while, but I seriously don't think it said he bet during his playing career.  If that's so, he should be in.  Not just for his hits or his three rings, but because there wasn't an ounce of doubt in anyone's mind he belonged there before the scandal broke. (For the record, Joe Jackson should be in as well.)


bizgovsoc6.files.wordpress.com
goldinauctions.com
 
2014-07-31 04:02:13 PM  

The_Sponge: Mateorocks: The_Sponge: Mateorocks: I hope he never gets in.


Do you have this same approach with players who took PEDs?

Actually, no. Betting on baseball (while, you know, being a professional player and manager) is the golden sin for a variety of reasons.

And PEDs aren't a "golden sin" as well?  You weren't pissed when Barry Bonds broke the home run record?



Sure. But if you ask any real baseball fans who the home run record holders are, most likely you'll still hear Maris and Aaron. The sad thing about Bonds is that I think he never needed to do a single PED and would still have been considered the best player of his era. Also the biggest d-bag, but that's another matter.
 
2014-07-31 04:05:20 PM  
I would also note that Mike Schmidt has said he would've been taking steroids by the truckload if he had had that chance. Baseball is a cheaters game...
 
2014-07-31 04:42:45 PM  

Gunny Highway: FriarReb98: Pete deserves to be in.  Tired of all the BS saying he doesn't.  I haven't read the report in a while, but I seriously don't think it said he bet during his playing career.  If that's so, he should be in.  Not just for his hits or his three rings, but because there wasn't an ounce of doubt in anyone's mind he belonged there before the scandal broke. (For the record, Joe Jackson should be in as well.)

[bizgovsoc6.files.wordpress.com image 736x510]
[goldinauctions.com image 850x1096]


No offense, but I'm not seeing where it says on those particular pages where it says he bet while an active player.  It only says he bet on baseball; it doesn't mention when.
 
2014-07-31 04:55:18 PM  
It doesn't matter when. If you bet on baseball, you're done for a year. If you bet on a baseball game you're involved in, you're done forever. Players, coaches, managers, front office, doesn't matter.
 
2014-07-31 05:01:43 PM  

FriarReb98: Gunny Highway: FriarReb98: Pete deserves to be in.  Tired of all the BS saying he doesn't.  I haven't read the report in a while, but I seriously don't think it said he bet during his playing career.  If that's so, he should be in.  Not just for his hits or his three rings, but because there wasn't an ounce of doubt in anyone's mind he belonged there before the scandal broke. (For the record, Joe Jackson should be in as well.)

[bizgovsoc6.files.wordpress.com image 736x510]
[goldinauctions.com image 850x1096]

No offense, but I'm not seeing where it says on those particular pages where it says he bet while an active player.  It only says he bet on baseball; it doesn't mention when.


Why does that matter. He signed a document that said he was banned from baseball. Has anyone ever suggested he bet as a player? You think it is okay for a manager to bet on games? I honestly don't follow.

I don't really care but Rose is a prick for lying about it for so long so fark him. I would like to see the league let him in but until then...
 
2014-07-31 05:21:58 PM  

Gunny Highway: MFAWG: Gunny Highway: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?

He agreed to a lifetime ban, but says that he wasn't aware that would make him ineligible for the HoF, which seems unlikely. Then again there was never a rule stating flat out that a banned player was ineligible until after Rose signed his ban.

So technically correct?

And didnt Selig give him a bunch of opportunities in the 90's to come clean and as a result the HOF ban would be terminated and he continued to cling to his lie?

/I have heard so many Rose HOF arguments between my father and uncles that the actural facts are hazy.


recently, during the all star game festivities, mike and mike asked selig if he might "pardon" Rose during the last days of his commissionorship...(sp?)

he kind of hedged...wouldn't surprise me either way.
 
2014-07-31 05:30:20 PM  
Did you guys know there's a sign in lockerooms that says don't bet on baseball? I wish someone would mention it.

Signs in lockerooms are extra important. That's why employees who don't wash their hands before returning to work go straight to hell.
 
2014-07-31 06:53:49 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.


How the hell is Sadaharu Oh not in the HOF?
 
2014-07-31 07:08:40 PM  

ElwoodCuse: happydude45: Pete should be in and the steroid boys should never be

which simple rule has been on the wall of every baseball clubhouse since the 1920s? hint: it's not "don't put weird shiat in your bodies which may or may not make you better at baseball"


Somebody once convinced me on Fark that Pete Rose really deserved his ban, thus showing that Fark can cause a person to change his mind.  Maybe it was you.
 
2014-07-31 07:10:32 PM  
Damn that Raymond Babbit!
 
2014-07-31 07:26:40 PM  
This is a part of modern life which mystifies me to no end. Why would you pay good money to somebody to sign their name? These old farts are making more money at this than than a teacher or a garbageman or the guy who cuts your hair--you know, people who do useful stuff. Every time I see a somebody stop someone to get an autograph, or even worse see a line of people waiting to get an autograph, I have the same thought. "what a goddamned bunch of sh*t"

One of my kids once asked me to tale him to the mall to get an autograph of some actor. I told him if he asked me something stupid like that again I'd take a switch to him.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Whatever the market will bear. And lighten up Francis.
 
2014-07-31 07:32:24 PM  

varmitydog: This is a part of modern life which mystifies me to no end. Why would you pay good money to somebody to sign their name? These old farts are making more money at this than than a teacher or a garbageman or the guy who cuts your hair--you know, people who do useful stuff. Every time I see a somebody stop someone to get an autograph, or even worse see a line of people waiting to get an autograph, I have the same thought. "what a goddamned bunch of sh*t"

One of my kids once asked me to tale him to the mall to get an autograph of some actor. I told him if he asked me something stupid like that again I'd take a switch to him.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Whatever the market will bear. And lighten up Francis.


What the hell is a switch and how do you beat someone with it?
 
2014-07-31 09:19:22 PM  
Why is betting when you are involved wrong? Where is the harm if bet on as game you are playing in as long as bet on your team to win. Maybe more players would run out ground balls knowing it might help them get a little more money.
 
2014-07-31 09:32:33 PM  
Rose makes it really farking hard to put out any sort of an effort for him. Every time you start thinking 'well, he was just so good a player... oh why not', he opens his mouth and says something that makes you go 'ohhhhhh yeah, THAT'S why not'.
 
2014-07-31 09:36:55 PM  

Flashlight: Why is betting when you are involved wrong? Where is the harm if bet on as game you are playing in as long as bet on your team to win. Maybe more players would run out ground balls knowing it might help them get a little more money.


Because you're going to be setting up for the games you bet on yourself. You have games on August 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th, and you're only betting on yourself for the game on the 7th, and you know you'll be betting on the 7th, what game do you think you'll be sending out your ace to pitch? And what actions are you going to take for the games on the 4th, 5th and 6th as part of making sure your ace pitches on the 7th? You've affected the team in four games because you bet on one and farked up all four of them as a result.
 
2014-07-31 09:45:06 PM  

Gunny Highway: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

Didnt he sign something saying he would not be eligible?


The baseball writers changed their rules to not allow anyone on the ineligable list to appear on the HOF ballots. IIRC they changed it about a year or so before Rose would of been eligable to appear on the ballot, sort of as a way to avoid the whole issue of whether he should be voted in or not.
 
2014-07-31 09:47:31 PM  

Gosling: Flashlight: Why is betting when you are involved wrong? Where is the harm if bet on as game you are playing in as long as bet on your team to win. Maybe more players would run out ground balls knowing it might help them get a little more money.

Because you're going to be setting up for the games you bet on yourself. You have games on August 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th, and you're only betting on yourself for the game on the 7th, and you know you'll be betting on the 7th, what game do you think you'll be sending out your ace to pitch? And what actions are you going to take for the games on the 4th, 5th and 6th as part of making sure your ace pitches on the 7th? You've affected the team in four games because you bet on one and farked up all four of them as a result.


Also, you destroy your best players trying to cover your bets.
 
2014-07-31 09:55:17 PM  

The_Sponge: And PEDs aren't a "golden sin" as well? You weren't pissed when Barry Bonds broke the home run record?


I was. Very pissed. But at the end of the day, at least using PED's is a signal that you are doing everything you can to win every game. When you are betting on the game, you are not making a bonafide effort to win, either by not trying as hard to win games you haven't bet to win, or outright throwing games you have bet to lose.

This is why you still don't hear anyone put an effort forth for Eddie Cicotte, who's the other one of the Black Sox that would otherwise maybe be of Hall of Fame quality. Joe Jackson, there's question as to whether he knew what he was doing. Cicotte absolutely goddamn well knew what he was doing. So people fight for Jackson and leave Cicotte to hang.
 
2014-07-31 11:47:15 PM  

varmitydog: This is a part of modern life which mystifies me to no end. Why would you pay good money to somebody to sign their name? These old farts are making more money at this than than a teacher or a garbageman or the guy who cuts your hair--you know, people who do useful stuff. Every time I see a somebody stop someone to get an autograph, or even worse see a line of people waiting to get an autograph, I have the same thought. "what a goddamned bunch of sh*t"

One of my kids once asked me to tale him to the mall to get an autograph of some actor. I told him if he asked me something stupid like that again I'd take a switch to him.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Whatever the market will bear. And lighten up Francis.


I constantly have this fight with my board of directors. Some of them think that every item we take into our museum has to be autographed. A signature is not always of historical significance, nor does it always contribute to historical interpretation.
 
2014-08-01 01:00:01 AM  

Mole Man: Marcus Aurelius: How can you have a hall of fame that doesn't include the top hitter OR the top home run king?

It's really very sad.

How the hell is Sadaharu Oh not in the HOF?


It's the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
 
2014-08-01 07:01:28 AM  

ElwoodCuse: It doesn't matter when. If you bet on baseball, you're done for a year. If you bet on a baseball game you're involved in, you're done forever. Players, coaches, managers, front office, doesn't matter.


I try to tell people that all the time, no one wants to listen.
 
2014-08-01 07:12:03 AM  

The_Sponge: Mateorocks: I hope he never gets in.


Do you have this same approach with players who took PEDs?


Yes. Let Pete Rose in, ban McGuire, Bonds, etc permanently. They destroyed the game. (Nice troll, BTW, totally worked on me)
 
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