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(Toronto Sun)   Terry Pegula submits cool $1.3 billion opening bid for the Buffalo Bills. Bon Jovi bid shot through the heart, Trump fired   (torontosun.com) divider line 55
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1108 clicks; posted to Sports » on 31 Jul 2014 at 1:38 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-31 12:34:10 PM  
Considering the team was recently valued at $800 million, that should be a winner.  Hopefully.  Trump would only shiat on the team and Bon Jovi wants to move it to Toronto.
 
2014-07-31 12:36:58 PM  
Trump was only window shopping and wishing he really had the money to be on TV as an NFL owner.  The NFL wants their owners to be very rich and be able to meet thresholds, the Donald just does not have the net worth or the cash.  When Trump went looking for loans to prop up his holdings Deutsche Bank putting his net worth at around $788 million but were unable to come to a complete number and concluded could be sustainably  lower.
 
2014-07-31 01:49:44 PM  
It's all over for the Toronto/JBJ bid.

They would have to beat Pegula's max bid, which would surely be greater than his opening bid of $1.3B.  Then they would need $400 million to break the lease, plus $200 million relocation fee to the NFL, plus $700M-$1B to build a new stadium in Toronto (the government of Ontario, unlike New York State, is unlikely to provide significant public financing for an NFL stadium).  We are talking about ~$3 billion to buy the Bills and move them to Toronto.  Not going to happen.

Not to mention that Bon Jovi seems only interested in being the majority owner, which under NFL rules means at least a 30% stake.  30% of $1.3 billion is $390 million.  Bon Jovi would have to liquidate most of his net worth just to have a 30% stake in a bid which just matches Pegula's opening bid.

Nope.  What's going to happen is, Pegula will buy the Bills.  He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.  He will own both the Bills and the Sabres and be King of Buffalo sports.
 
2014-07-31 01:52:23 PM  

Prey4reign: Considering the team was recently valued at $800 million, that should be a winner.


Forbes' valuations of sports franchises, like their guesses at sports teams' profits/losses, are worthless.  They never sell for anywhere near close to Forbes thinks they are worth, which means that Forbes is wrong.

Anything Forbes writes about pro sports should be read for entertainment purposes only.
 
2014-07-31 01:55:13 PM  

Doc Daneeka: He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.


Why would NY State be financing it as opposed to Buffalo and the nearby municipalities/counties?
 
2014-07-31 01:58:14 PM  

Killer Cars: Doc Daneeka: He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.

Why would NY State be financing it as opposed to Buffalo and the nearby municipalities/counties?


The state has a vested interest in keeping the Bills.  Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York.  New York views itself as one of the leading states in the union, and does not want to suffer the indignity of losing its only NFL franchise.

Top statewide officials (Cuomo, Duffy, Schumer) have spoken many times about their commitment to keeping the Bills in New York.  It's not just a local issue.  It's a state issue.
 
2014-07-31 02:01:21 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York


Aha. I completely farkin' overlooked that part.
 
2014-07-31 02:04:54 PM  
The Clippers are worth 2 billion and the Bills are worth 1.3 billion.  fark.
 
2014-07-31 02:06:10 PM  
Trump wouldn't be buying it to be real owner, just for more self nipple rubbing marketing.

Bon Jovi?  c'mon
 
2014-07-31 02:11:44 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Prey4reign: Considering the team was recently valued at $800 million, that should be a winner.

Forbes' valuations of sports franchises, like their guesses at sports teams' profits/losses, are worthless.  They never sell for anywhere near close to Forbes thinks they are worth, which means that Forbes is wrong.

Anything Forbes writes about pro sports should be read for entertainment purposes only.


There are so many factors beyonf yournormal valuation formulas (the prestige of ownership, lack of availability, marketing value, emotional attachment, etc) and so few sales to compare to that any valuation is a huge stab in the dark.
 
2014-07-31 02:26:02 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York.


So, I know almost nothing about the NFL, but what about the Jets and the Giants?  Do they not actually play in the state of New York?
 
2014-07-31 02:27:38 PM  

GavinTheAlmighty: Doc Daneeka: Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York.

So, I know almost nothing about the NFL, but what about the Jets and the Giants?  Do they not actually play in the state of New York?


Jersey.
 
2014-07-31 02:30:18 PM  

Doc Daneeka: It's all over for the Toronto/JBJ bid.

They would have to beat Pegula's max bid, which would surely be greater than his opening bid of $1.3B.  Then they would need $400 million to break the lease, plus $200 million relocation fee to the NFL, plus $700M-$1B to build a new stadium in Toronto (the government of Ontario, unlike New York State, is unlikely to provide significant public financing for an NFL stadium).  We are talking about ~$3 billion to buy the Bills and move them to Toronto.  Not going to happen.

Not to mention that Bon Jovi seems only interested in being the majority owner, which under NFL rules means at least a 30% stake.  30% of $1.3 billion is $390 million.  Bon Jovi would have to liquidate most of his net worth just to have a 30% stake in a bid which just matches Pegula's opening bid.

Nope.  What's going to happen is, Pegula will buy the Bills.  He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.  He will own both the Bills and the Sabres and be King of Buffalo sports.


Is there some requirement that potential ownership groups pay for franchises with cash? The Toronto bid had more than sufficient net worth, and JBJ wasn't going to pay for his share of the team with cash.
 
2014-07-31 02:30:20 PM  

Gunny Highway: GavinTheAlmighty: Doc Daneeka: Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York.

So, I know almost nothing about the NFL, but what about the Jets and the Giants?  Do they not actually play in the state of New York?

Jersey.


A few miles over the state line, but might as well be Timbuktu as far as the statehouse in Albany is concerned.

They are not New York State teams and do not benefit the state in any way.

If the Bills leave, NYS won't have any NFL teams.
 
2014-07-31 02:32:13 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Killer Cars: Doc Daneeka: He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.

Why would NY State be financing it as opposed to Buffalo and the nearby municipalities/counties?

The state has a vested interest in keeping the Bills.  Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York.  New York views itself as one of the leading states in the union, and does not want to suffer the indignity of losing its only NFL franchise.

Top statewide officials (Cuomo, Duffy, Schumer) have spoken many times about their commitment to keeping the Bills in New York.  It's not just a local issue.  It's a state issue.


Any new stadium is going to be a net loss for the state government. Particularly for the region that financially supports Upstate.
 
2014-07-31 02:34:11 PM  

assburp: Trump wouldn't be buying it to be real owner, just for more self nipple rubbing marketing.

Bon Jovi?  c'mon


JBJ almost certainly has more available wealth than Trump.
 
2014-07-31 02:51:41 PM  

Moopy Mac: Doc Daneeka: It's all over for the Toronto/JBJ bid.

They would have to beat Pegula's max bid, which would surely be greater than his opening bid of $1.3B.  Then they would need $400 million to break the lease, plus $200 million relocation fee to the NFL, plus $700M-$1B to build a new stadium in Toronto (the government of Ontario, unlike New York State, is unlikely to provide significant public financing for an NFL stadium).  We are talking about ~$3 billion to buy the Bills and move them to Toronto.  Not going to happen.

Not to mention that Bon Jovi seems only interested in being the majority owner, which under NFL rules means at least a 30% stake.  30% of $1.3 billion is $390 million.  Bon Jovi would have to liquidate most of his net worth just to have a 30% stake in a bid which just matches Pegula's opening bid.

Nope.  What's going to happen is, Pegula will buy the Bills.  He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.  He will own both the Bills and the Sabres and be King of Buffalo sports.

Is there some requirement that potential ownership groups pay for franchises with cash? The Toronto bid had more than sufficient net worth, and JBJ wasn't going to pay for his share of the team with cash.


NFL's financing limit is $200 million.  Owners have to be able to pay the rest in cash.

And Rogers has a high net worth, but most of their wealth is locked up in trust and not accessible to be used to purchase the Bills.

The NFL wants their owners to be very rich and very liquid.  It does not want people who have to scrap together big ownership groups, or people who have to borrow money to buy a team.  The league's preference is to have a single owner with a big checkbook.
 
2014-07-31 03:01:37 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Moopy Mac: Doc Daneeka: It's all over for the Toronto/JBJ bid.

They would have to beat Pegula's max bid, which would surely be greater than his opening bid of $1.3B.  Then they would need $400 million to break the lease, plus $200 million relocation fee to the NFL, plus $700M-$1B to build a new stadium in Toronto (the government of Ontario, unlike New York State, is unlikely to provide significant public financing for an NFL stadium).  We are talking about ~$3 billion to buy the Bills and move them to Toronto.  Not going to happen.

Not to mention that Bon Jovi seems only interested in being the majority owner, which under NFL rules means at least a 30% stake.  30% of $1.3 billion is $390 million.  Bon Jovi would have to liquidate most of his net worth just to have a 30% stake in a bid which just matches Pegula's opening bid.

Nope.  What's going to happen is, Pegula will buy the Bills.  He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.  He will own both the Bills and the Sabres and be King of Buffalo sports.

Is there some requirement that potential ownership groups pay for franchises with cash? The Toronto bid had more than sufficient net worth, and JBJ wasn't going to pay for his share of the team with cash.

NFL's financing limit is $200 million.  Owners have to be able to pay the rest in cash.

And Rogers has a high net worth, but most of their wealth is locked up in trust and not accessible to be used to purchase the Bills.

The NFL wants their owners to be very rich and very liquid.  It does not want people who have to scrap together big ownership groups, or people who have to borrow money to buy a team.  The league's preference is to have a single owner with a big checkbook.


Geez, that makes Trump's posturing even more ridiculous.
 
2014-07-31 03:01:54 PM  
Doc Daneeka:

Nope.  What's going to happen is, Pegula will buy the Bills.  He will build a new stadium downtown near the arena and HarborCenter, likely with substantial state support.  He will own both the Bills and the Sabres and be King of Buffalo sports.

Is that sort of like being the prettiest girl at a fat chicks party?


/I keed, I keed
 
2014-07-31 03:04:11 PM  

Doc Daneeka: NFL's financing limit is $200 million. Owners have to be able to pay the rest in cash.

And Rogers has a high net worth, but most of their wealth is locked up in trust and not accessible to be used to purchase the Bills.

The NFL wants their owners to be very rich and very liquid. It does not want people who have to scrap together big ownership groups, or people who have to borrow money to buy a team. The league's preference is to have a single owner with a big checkbook.


Yes, for the sole reason that they don't want a group of owners who are unable to withstand a lockout or be at the mercy of a shareholder vote.  Get rich guys who can wait out any Union dispute and never have to be accountable so they can ignore social issues like the Redskins name or health issues like concussions.
 
2014-07-31 03:05:46 PM  

Doc Daneeka: NFL's financing limit is $200 million.  Owners have to be able to pay the rest in cash.



Holy shiat! I had no idea that was the case. Good policy from the NFL if they're confident there will always be 3-4 dozen multi-billionaires with a penchant for pigskin. It certainly does eliminate any John Spano-type incidents.

I guess it's kinda like the saying: "Just because you can afford to buy a Ferrari doesn't mean you can afford to own one."
 
2014-07-31 03:09:07 PM  
As a Torontonian I don't want the bills. If I was to cheer for the NFL give us a new team and let us suck for a few years until we fire everybody and start over for a second time.

I don't want to steal someone elses team. And we shouldn't be allowed to either.

Expansion or bust. And please don't let anyone who had anything to do with the bills playing in Toronto have anything to do with the expansion team. Those jerkoffs started with the plan of "lets rape them with prices" that were more than DOUBLE the leagues highest.. and it pissed a LOT of Toronto NFL fans off. So don't judge their failure as Torontos.
 
2014-07-31 03:17:38 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Why would NY State be financing it as opposed to Buffalo and the nearby municipalities/counties?

The state has a vested interest in keeping the Bills.  Keep in mind that the Bills are the only NFL team located in (and generating tax revenue for) the state of New York.  New York views itself as one of the leading states in the union, and does not want to suffer the indignity of losing its only NFL franchise.

Top statewide officials (Cuomo, Duffy, Schumer) have spoken many times about their commitment to keeping the Bills in New York.  It's not just a local issue.  It's a state issue.


I disagree. Albany (which mostly means downstate politicians) don't really give two shiats about "New York's team" located out in WNY. In fact, if there was a way to truncate NYS at about Schenectady, and hand over the perpetually-ailing western tier to Pennsylvania, most people in Albany would jump at the chance. The speeches are just lip service.

Now, the real reason Albany would back a stadium proposal in Buffalo is desperation: the fervent hope that something -- anything -- will jumpstart the economy and keep Buffalo from being like your fiscally-irresponsible older brother who's always bugging you to bail him out of a jam. Aren't both Buffalo and Rochester under state management because local politicians couldn't keep them solvent? It's the same thinking that put an Indian casino in Niagara Falls (well, that plus trying to make nice with the Senecas who were threatening to sue to take back Grand Island). If someone else is going to plow $ 500M into Buffalo, and the state only has to come up with $250M to sweeten the pot to get that private money spent, they'll do it in a heartbeat on the off chance that it'll keep Buffalo afloat for another 5 years.
 
2014-07-31 03:26:17 PM  
Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s
 
2014-07-31 03:30:47 PM  

Uzzah: Aren't both Buffalo and Rochester under state management because local politicians couldn't keep them solvent?


No.  Buffalo was under a state financial control board several years back, but that is now longer the case.

Uzzah: If someone else is going to plow $ 500M into Buffalo, and the state only has to come up with $250M to sweeten the pot to get that private money spent, they'll do it in a heartbeat on the off chance that it'll keep Buffalo afloat for another 5 years.


I'd say that Buffalo's economic recovery will continue to proceed apace with or without a new stadium for the Bills.  There's a construction boom downtown, the biomedical corridor is rapidly expanding, Larkinville and Canalside are revitalized and full of people, seemingly every old industrial/commercial building is being renovated into upscale lofts and condos.  It's not the same old "beleaguered, depressed Buffalo" of 10-20 years ago.

Bills stadium is a separate issue - doesn't have anything to do with economic development.
 
2014-07-31 03:42:54 PM  
How I envision the sale of any NFL team:

Owner: Here is my money.
NFL: Here is your license to print more.

Does any team lose money?
 
2014-07-31 03:51:22 PM  

skrame: How I envision the sale of any NFL team:

Owner: Here is my money.
NFL: Here is your license to print more.

Does any team lose money?


Are you asking for on paper or real life?
 
2014-07-31 04:11:01 PM  

abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s


The NFL (read Roger Goodell) is ACTIVELY trying to get a team to London (and other parts of Europe), probably within the next 5-10 years.  I believe it was the Jags or the Panthers that has publicly stated they would be willing to relocate when/if the deal ever comes to fruition.

/doesn't answer your questions regarding felons and other legal issues (which are good questions btw), just pointing out that, yes, the League definitely wants to expand the teams outside the US.
 
2014-07-31 04:47:34 PM  

chevydeuce: abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s

The NFL (read Roger Goodell) is ACTIVELY trying to get a team to London (and other parts of Europe), probably within the next 5-10 years.  I believe it was the Jags or the Panthers that has publicly stated they would be willing to relocate when/if the deal ever comes to fruition.

/doesn't answer your questions regarding felons and other legal issues (which are good questions btw), just pointing out that, yes, the League definitely wants to expand the teams outside the US.


Do they really think they'll get a stadium just for them in London?  They're not going to sell Wembley out every week you know.
 
2014-07-31 04:51:40 PM  
Uzzah:Doc Daneeka:
Doc Daneeka
:
Uzzah: Aren't both Buffalo and Rochester under state management because local politicians couldn't keep them solvent?

No.  Buffalo was under a state financial control board several years back, but that is now longer the case.


And Rochester has never been under any type of state financial management at all
 
2014-07-31 04:53:28 PM  

Rwa2play: chevydeuce: abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s

The NFL (read Roger Goodell) is ACTIVELY trying to get a team to London (and other parts of Europe), probably within the next 5-10 years.  I believe it was the Jags or the Panthers that has publicly stated they would be willing to relocate when/if the deal ever comes to fruition.

/doesn't answer your questions regarding felons and other legal issues (which are good questions btw), just pointing out that, yes, the League definitely wants to expand the teams outside the US.

Do they really think they'll get a stadium just for them in London?  They' ...


I can't answer that....I'm just repeating what I've read/heard...the link below is from last year, but the it's still relevant, I believe (and it's the Jags that have said they are ready to move when the time arrives)

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/22357154/london -c alling-nfl-wants-uk-team-and-soon-jags-look-like-best-fit
 
2014-07-31 04:55:57 PM  

abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s


When the government in question gets a chance to tax the 133 million dollar salary of the players plus the salaries of coaches staff etc plus some of the owners cut in profit in one fell swoop, much of the governmental red tape involved in moving (fairly well watched) ex cons place to place can be cut. Once theres money coming in politicians get right on board shiat like this.
 
2014-07-31 04:56:46 PM  

abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s


I doubt it will happen.

Canada has a number of issues. Assuming immigration can be overcome (although it has affect pro athletes before), you will have a large number of people actively fighting against it in both countries. When the Bills regular season games in Toronto were announced there was a lot of opposition, from Canadians thinking it would hurt the CFL and Americans opposed to letting a team relocate to a foreign country.

Politically, there won't be any money for a stadium (as there is no NFL capable stadium in Canada) or other support for the above reason. And there isn't a lot of concentrated support for the NFL to counteract this (too spread out).

It is a non-starter.

And Europe just isn't feasible with current travel schedules and technology. At least not without an entire division over there. Andwith the experience of NFL Europe. I think most know it would be a bad idea and likely fail spectacularly (yes, the London games draw well, but it is locals for the novelty and expats, it is a lot easier to do that for one game than a eight game slate)
 
2014-07-31 04:58:03 PM  

mikaloyd: abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s

When the government in question gets a chance to tax the 133 million dollar salary of the players plus the salaries of coaches staff etc plus some of the owners cut in profit in one fell swoop, much of the governmental red tape involved in moving (fairly well watched) ex cons place to place can be cut. Once theres money coming in politicians get right on board shiat like this.


And I completely forgot about the NBA having a team in Canada (just one? not a big NBA fan here)...doesn't seem to be an issue for them.
 
2014-07-31 04:58:23 PM  

chevydeuce: I can't answer that....I'm just repeating what I've read/heard...the link below is from last year, but the it's still relevant, I believe (and it's the Jags that have said they are ready to move when the time arrives)

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/22357154/london -c alling-nfl-wants-uk-team-and-soon-jags-look-like-best-fit


Thing is, where are they gonna play, Wembley?  The English FA are okay with them as a sideshow, but an NFL team 8 times a year there?  Like hell.

Goodell can forget London, period.  Logistics are insane, the NFLPA's going to balk at having to have teams flying a minimum 7000 mile round trip.
 
2014-07-31 04:58:53 PM  

Rwa2play: chevydeuce: abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s

The NFL (read Roger Goodell) is ACTIVELY trying to get a team to London (and other parts of Europe), probably within the next 5-10 years.  I believe it was the Jags or the Panthers that has publicly stated they would be willing to relocate when/if the deal ever comes to fruition.

/doesn't answer your questions regarding felons and other legal issues (which are good questions btw), just pointing out that, yes, the League definitely wants to expand the teams outside the US.

Do they really think they'll get a stadium just for them in London?  They' ...


The fact that St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kronke also owns Arsenal F.C. scares me.
 
2014-07-31 04:59:44 PM  

dywed88: abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s

I doubt it will happen.

Canada has a number of issues. Assuming immigration can be overcome (although it has affect pro athletes before), you will have a large number of people actively fighting against it in both countries. When the Bills regular season games in Toronto were announced there was a lot of opposition, from Canadians thinking it would hurt the CFL and Americans opposed to letting a team relocate to a foreign country.

Politically, there won't be any money for a stadium (as there is no NFL capable stadium in Canada) or other support for the abov ...


According to many people, you are dead wrong.  See my link above.  It's not a matter of if, but when the NFL has a team in London.
 
2014-07-31 04:59:54 PM  
Hockey players make it across borders on the regular
 
2014-07-31 05:00:57 PM  

mjohnson71: The fact that St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kronke also owns Arsenal F.C. scares me.


Doubt that will happen considering a) The Emirates only seats 60,000 and b) A LOT more money is made with Arsenal through the EPL TV contract than the Rams would probably get.
 
2014-07-31 05:03:40 PM  

chevydeuce: dywed88: abmoraz: Purely as a thought exercise: would the NFL allow a team in Canada (or the UK for that matter)?  I know they want to tap into the world market, but there are logistical and legal things to consider.  In pro hockey, there was a player (Billy Tibbotts) I had the "joy" of playing on a minor league team with.  He was convicted of a felony and had to skip several road trips that would've taken him into Canada (due to passport/visa rules about convicted felons and sex offenders not being allowed to cross into the country).

Now, I'm not sure if this is still the case between the two countries, but if so, wouldn't that be a possible logistical nightmare for the NFL?  Between drug, manslaughter, gun, sex, and other crimes, it would require a ton of logistics to get teams on the road there.  I think it would be much worse for the NFL than MLB, NHL, and NBA just because of the size of the teams involved (90+ players, coaches and staff verses ~35 for baseball/hockey and 20 for NBA)

Now, I know the NFL has played some games in Canada, Mexico, and the UK, but figuring out the passports, visas, and legal clearings for 2 teams every other year, knowing well in advance who's gonna go where is one thing, but getting them done come playoffs, where you may have less than a week's notice is another.

/again, just a thought exercise.  I'm not sure if the visa/border crossing rules are the same as they were in the mid 90s

I doubt it will happen.

Canada has a number of issues. Assuming immigration can be overcome (although it has affect pro athletes before), you will have a large number of people actively fighting against it in both countries. When the Bills regular season games in Toronto were announced there was a lot of opposition, from Canadians thinking it would hurt the CFL and Americans opposed to letting a team relocate to a foreign country.

Politically, there won't be any money for a stadium (as there is no NFL capable stadium in Canada) or other support for the abov ...

According to many people, you are dead wrong.  See my link above.  It's not a matter of if, but when the NFL has a team in London.


They may talk big, and Goodel may want the globalization to be his legacy, but I believe it is highly unlikely to occur and almost certain to fail spectacularly if it does occur.
 
2014-07-31 05:26:12 PM  
The NFL will not be having a team officially calling a city outside the US 'home' any time soon.

The entire idea is bullshiat, and its just another form of "Moving a team to LA" that certain folks use to twist arms and get public funding for stadiums.

There will be no England/London team. There will be no Canadia team.

The walking, talking shiatstorm that would be setting up the translations for salaries, travel, citizenship, yada yada free agent premiums, you name it.

Add all that to the reality: In order for a team to exist in any outside the US locale, there needs to be a relocation. Unless you somehow think Darth Roger is gonna ADD more teams to the league, which would need to be at least 4 per conference unless you want to re-align the whole shebang again, with ALL conferences and divisions being hand-grenaded... simply not going to happen.

...


What city is gonna let that much tax and employment get away? Hint: politicians and locals and state houses won't let that shiat fly.
 
2014-07-31 06:02:59 PM  

Flappyhead: Is that sort of like being the prettiest girl at a fat chicks party?


So...you'd be Kate Upton?

/that one's for you, Fark...
 
2014-07-31 06:05:59 PM  

Doc Daneeka: I'd say that Buffalo's economic recovery will continue to proceed apace with or without a new stadium for the Bills.  There's a construction boom downtown, the biomedical corridor is rapidly expanding, Larkinville and Canalside are revitalized and full of people, seemingly every old industrial/commercial building is being renovated into upscale lofts and condos.  It's not the same old "beleaguered, depressed Buffalo" of 10-20 years ago.


Fair enough, it's been a while since I was there. Does the train go out to the airport yet?
 
2014-07-31 06:37:32 PM  

Allen262: skrame: How I envision the sale of any NFL team:

Owner: Here is my money.
NFL: Here is your license to print more.

Does any team lose money?

Are you asking for on paper or real life?


I worded my question stupidly. I meant has any pro sports franchise ever lost value, as in has it been sold for a loss.
 
2014-07-31 07:36:33 PM  

Uzzah: Doc Daneeka: I'd say that Buffalo's economic recovery will continue to proceed apace with or without a new stadium for the Bills.  There's a construction boom downtown, the biomedical corridor is rapidly expanding, Larkinville and Canalside are revitalized and full of people, seemingly every old industrial/commercial building is being renovated into upscale lofts and condos.  It's not the same old "beleaguered, depressed Buffalo" of 10-20 years ago.

Fair enough, it's been a while since I was there. Does the train go out to the airport yet?


With the Main St. Project, we're lucky it still runs above ground.

They did a study about eight years ago that said, using existing rights of way, it would run $21 mil/mile to run it out to KBUF.

Oh, and go Mr. Pegula! Just not out of town.
 
2014-07-31 09:36:21 PM  
The problem I have with the Bills moving to Toronto is that you'd be giving a team to a city with fans that are fair weather at best.  Additionally I would see it as being an assault on the CFL.  It's one thing to push out one team but you start competing nationally and you are going after an entire league.  When you have money in so many new stadiums across the country (Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton) and heavily renovated stadiums (Edmonton, Montreal and Vancouver) really only leaving Toronto and Calgary with stadium work to do you are talking about some pretty significant money in all those locations.

I don't think the economic impact of having an NFL team in Toronto is worth it to the country as a whole.
 
2014-07-31 10:14:04 PM  
The most rabid football fans in Canada are in Saskatchewan.  If given an NFL franchise, they would be the Canadian equivalent of the Green Bay Packers: small in population, but would sell out every game.

Instead of cheese on their heads, they'd wear uranium and potash.

Also, there will never be an NFL franchise in Toronto until the government changes liquor rules to allow proper tailgate parties.
 
2014-07-31 10:28:01 PM  
....However, all players and staff will be fired, to be replaced by Transformers and computer programmers.  BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING IN THE RULE BOOK THAT SAYS ROBOTS CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL!
 
2014-07-31 10:30:34 PM  

Mr. Oizo: The most rabid football fans in Canada are in Saskatchewan.  If given an NFL franchise, they would be the Canadian equivalent of the Green Bay Packers: small in population, but would sell out every game.

Instead of cheese on their heads, they'd wear uranium and potash.

Also, there will never be an NFL franchise in Toronto until the government changes liquor rules to allow proper tailgate parties.


You spelled watermelon wrong...

mydisguises.com

In a just world the first NFL team in Canada would be in Regina, though Edmonton with Commonwealth Stadium would be an easier choice (almost 60k already and could easily be expanded to 75 if they built up the stands in the endzones).

Sadly the NFL is not interested in rewarding fans.  They'd rather have a big money infusion from the most apathetic fan base for anything other than the Laffs instead.
 
2014-07-31 10:48:33 PM  

Mr. Oizo: The most rabid football fans in Canada are in Saskatchewan.  If given an NFL franchise, they would be the Canadian equivalent of the Green Bay Packers: small in population, but would sell out every game.

Instead of cheese on their heads, they'd wear uranium and potash.

Also, there will never be an NFL franchise in Toronto until the government changes liquor rules to allow proper tailgate parties.


^This^   The province will NEVER allow people to bring their own booze to a tailgate event.  The no-tailgating situation at Argo games (or any possible future NFL team) is also due to the Ontario Fire Marshall.  No barbecues (open flame...) are allowed in parking lots filled with cars that have gasoline in them.

I've been to a few Bills games and just about everything that occurs at tailgates there (gas generators, pig roasts, enough beer and booze to last a decade, starting on Thursday nights ffs and absolutely crazy by Friday night 9pm,  etc...)  will put one Ontario 'Official' or another into cardiac arrest.

Ain't gonna happen.
 
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