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(Politico)   "How to think about the new Middle East" No, not as a radioactive glass parking lot   (politico.com) divider line 32
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556 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jul 2014 at 11:49 AM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-31 08:58:01 AM  
How stable is Egypt at this point, and can we really rely on them?
 
2014-07-31 11:54:01 AM  
Why not?
 
2014-07-31 11:54:17 AM  
So sanctions imposed on Hamas by Iran and Egypt led to Hamas acting out?
 
2014-07-31 11:59:26 AM  
Shame.
 
2014-07-31 11:59:52 AM  
But radioactive glass parking lots are peaceful.
 
2014-07-31 12:04:11 PM  
That is a pretty good summary of the situation. +1 Subs.
 
2014-07-31 12:04:12 PM  
We can still drill under the glass for the oil.  I say let the nukes fly.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-07-31 12:05:14 PM  
I think about it as far away and not being our responsibility to sort out.
 
2014-07-31 12:10:18 PM  

DeaH: How stable is Egypt at this point, and can we really rely on them?


It was and remains a military dictatorship.  Nothing has really changed in about 70 years.
 
2014-07-31 12:15:08 PM  

DeaH: How stable is Egypt at this point, and can we really rely on them?


They may be semi-stable, in the sense they are exactly the same government as they were pre-revolution, basically a military dictatorship with a fake facade of democracy pasted on top.

So, basically, a Middle Eastern Russia.

Yes, they pushed out Islamic extremists from the government, arresting many (not to mention also arresting liberal democracy advocates).  But that actually makes the country less stable, not more, as the hardline Islamists go back to being terrorists.
 
2014-07-31 12:17:39 PM  
There's another link today about the Republican response to the ACA and I couldn't help thinking how similar their attitudes are to Hamas'. Neither the Republicans nor Hamas are willing to negotiate or compromise; both are utterly committed to the destruction of the enemy, at any price; both are willing to let their constituents suffer in order to score propaganda points; both are cynically repurposing resources that could be used to better the lot of the people who elected them. Both are eager to lie, extravagantly, about their goals and tactics, and both are preaching to a populace conditioned to accept the consequences of their leaders' irresponsibility in pursuit of ideological victory. Both even embrace the unintended consequences of their actions (declining health statistics in Louisiana, Hamas mortars hitting their own hospital) so long as those mistakes can be blamed on the opposition.

Both are schmucks.
 
2014-07-31 12:27:59 PM  

palelizard: But radioactive glass parking lots are peaceful.


These as assholes have been fighting over scraps of inhospitable wasteland since before humans worked out how to weaponize rocks. I have doubts that anything short of immediately deadly radiation would deter them from continuing their current course.
 
2014-07-31 12:30:26 PM  
Wow. With SISI on the south and ISIS on the north, I'd be buying all the vowels and consonants I could. And a good book on military grade palindrome abatement.
 
2014-07-31 12:31:28 PM  

Target Builder: palelizard: But radioactive glass parking lots are peaceful.

These as assholes have been fighting over scraps of inhospitable wasteland since before humans worked out how to weaponize rocks. I have doubts that anything short of immediately deadly radiation would deter them from continuing their current course.


Well, we could start by not saying shiat like that and thus drawing fire.  

There will probably and for a long time be a significant minority of people in the world who want to do harm to the US and a lot of those people live somewhere between the Ivory Coast and Tibet.  That's most of the globe and there's nothing we can do to police it.  The only thing that the US can possibly hope to do to protect itself is to stop antagonizing hundreds of millions of people every day.
 
2014-07-31 12:33:09 PM  

Target Builder: palelizard: But radioactive glass parking lots are peaceful.

These as assholes have been fighting over scraps of inhospitable wasteland since before humans worked out how to weaponize rocks. I have doubts that anything short of immediately deadly radiation would deter them from continuing their current course.


Yeah, my favorite solution for the whole Middle East is for the rest of the world to pretend it doesn't exist.  Just write HERE THERE BE DRAGONS on the map and avoid the whole area.
 
2014-07-31 12:36:45 PM  

Noctusxx: We can still drill under the glass for the oil.  I say let the nukes fly.


I bet radioactive gasoline would make your car go REALLY fast.

Target Builder: These as assholes have been fighting over scraps of inhospitable wasteland since before humans worked out how to weaponize rocks. I have doubts that anything short of immediately deadly radiation would deter them from continuing their current course.


"Get your own damn gamma particles!"
 
2014-07-31 12:40:33 PM  
FTA: These new realities also help to explain why Hamas launched this round of fighting: It was isolated and in desperate shape financially.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with being blamed for the killing of three teenagers, followed by Israeli raids into Gaza and arrests of hundreds of people.
 
m00
2014-07-31 12:40:54 PM  

Geotpf: Yeah, my favorite solution for the whole Middle East is for the rest of the world to pretend it doesn't exist. Just write HERE THERE BE DRAGONS on the map and avoid the whole area.


We'd need to at least have electric cars for this to work. But probably we'd need an energy infrastructure using renewable sources.

Unfortunately, the energy industry has no interest in this happening, so they lobby government and politicians and fund political campaigns to make any disengagement policy impossible.

I wish otherwise reasonable Democrats and liberals would see this sort of thing as the danger of "too much government." Government will never be a force for good, because the bigger it gets the more susceptible it becomes to corporate corruption. Our entire foreign policy is built around appeasing corporations... but we call it "free trade," although it isn't free trade at all. It's making people trade with us by putting a gun to their head, and then making the American people consume those goods with a gun to theirs.
 
2014-07-31 12:45:45 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: FTA: These new realities also help to explain why Hamas launched this round of fighting: It was isolated and in desperate shape financially.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with being blamed for the killing of three teenagers, followed by Israeli raids into Gaza and arrests of hundreds of people.


Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

How long would you let Tea Partiers shoot at your house before you did something?
 
2014-07-31 01:00:33 PM  

Giltric: Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.


In May, they fired 4 rockets.
 
2014-07-31 01:04:12 PM  

m00: Geotpf: Yeah, my favorite solution for the whole Middle East is for the rest of the world to pretend it doesn't exist. Just write HERE THERE BE DRAGONS on the map and avoid the whole area.

We'd need to at least have electric cars for this to work. But probably we'd need an energy infrastructure using renewable sources.

Unfortunately, the energy industry has no interest in this happening, so they lobby government and politicians and fund political campaigns to make any disengagement policy impossible.

I wish otherwise reasonable Democrats and liberals would see this sort of thing as the danger of "too much government." Government will never be a force for good, because the bigger it gets the more susceptible it becomes to corporate corruption. Our entire foreign policy is built around appeasing corporations... but we call it "free trade," although it isn't free trade at all. It's making people trade with us by putting a gun to their head, and then making the American people consume those goods with a gun to theirs.


1. One response to this sort of thing would be to increase drilling in non-Middle Eastern areas, including domestically.  There are lots of non-safety related restrictions on drilling and transporting oil in the US (and elsewhere).

2. I'm thinking more in terms of the US government and the military.  I imagine trade in oil from the area would continue.

3. "It's making people trade with us by putting a gun to their head, and then making the American people consume those goods with a gun to theirs." is a completely nonsensical statement.  We force China to ship stuff here?  We force people here to buy Chinese made stuff?  Um, no in both cases.  Chinese made stuff is cheaper, that's why people here buy such stuff and why they are able to sell it.
 
2014-07-31 01:04:51 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Giltric: Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

In May, they fired 4 rockets.


You should do an experiment.

Make a craigslist ad saying you want someone to shoot at you four times to see how reserved and restrained you can be.


4 rockets is 4 too many.
 
2014-07-31 01:37:24 PM  
If I may paraphrase Spock:

tng.trekcore.com

"Closed minds have kept these two worlds apart for centuries... [W]e have learned from experience to view the [Arab world] with distrust. We can either choose to live with that enmity or seek an opportunity to change it."
 
m00
2014-07-31 01:42:13 PM  

Geotpf: 1. One response to this sort of thing would be to increase drilling in non-Middle Eastern areas, including domestically. There are lots of non-safety related restrictions on drilling and transporting oil in the US (and elsewhere).

2. I'm thinking more in terms of the US government and the military. I imagine trade in oil from the area would continue.

3. "It's making people trade with us by putting a gun to their head, and then making the American people consume those goods with a gun to theirs." is a completely nonsensical statement. We force China to ship stuff here? We force people here to buy Chinese made stuff? Um, no in both cases. Chinese made stuff is cheaper, that's why people here buy such stuff and why they are able to sell it.



Not if you look at the big picture. Other countries have trade agreements with us (that are favorable to us) because if you don't, you become a Cuba or Iran. In both cases, hostilities started because they wanted to nationalize and not trade with us something we wanted. We use our military might to extract what is best for American corporate interests from trade agreements. That's the gun to their head. This in general is what the west has been doing to the developing world post-colonialism.

The gun to the head of the US consumers is simply the removal of choice in the market place and the creation of a society dependent on a good. There is no real choice in the market place because large corporations are subsidized by government (meaning, your tax dollars), and regulations are in place to prohibit competition. For example, try to construct a diet without high fructose corn syrup.
 
2014-07-31 01:43:21 PM  
Glass would make a horrible parking lot, stupidmitter.
 
2014-07-31 01:44:50 PM  

Giltric: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Giltric: Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

In May, they fired 4 rockets.

You should do an experiment.

Make a craigslist ad saying you want someone to shoot at you four times to see how reserved and restrained you can be.


4 rockets is 4 too many.


and then after those 4 shots hit your house, you should retaliate by shooting up the entire street hitting innocent neighbors who weren't involved
 
2014-07-31 02:17:59 PM  

chocolate covered poop: Giltric: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Giltric: Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

In May, they fired 4 rockets.

You should do an experiment.

Make a craigslist ad saying you want someone to shoot at you four times to see how reserved and restrained you can be.


4 rockets is 4 too many.

and then after those 4 shots hit your house, you should retaliate by shooting up the entire street hitting innocent neighbors who weren't involved


Those neighbors have have a distribution along the lines of one gave the guy a gun, one agreed it was a good idea, one saw the guy getting ready and did nothing and the fourth is actually an innocent victim.  I'm not saying it's a morally justifiable decision to retaliate indiscriminately, but the reason Hamas has power in Gaza is because a lot of people agree there with them.
 
2014-07-31 06:05:54 PM  

Giltric: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: FTA: These new realities also help to explain why Hamas launched this round of fighting: It was isolated and in desperate shape financially.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with being blamed for the killing of three teenagers, followed by Israeli raids into Gaza and arrests of hundreds of people.

Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

How long would you let Tea Partiers shoot at your house before you did something?


Well, I'd start by not moving to some shiathole Tea Party infested backwater in Bumfark, AL, and then declaring it Libtopia, AL while displacing a bunch of nothing-to-lose Tea Partiers because my imaginary sky friend told me I could 4 thousand years ago.

That probably result in not getting shot at in the first place. But I guess that's crazy talk if you're a psychotic theocrat hell bent on fighting over a shiathole with other psychotic theocrats. Meh.
 
2014-07-31 07:11:40 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Giltric: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: FTA: These new realities also help to explain why Hamas launched this round of fighting: It was isolated and in desperate shape financially.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with being blamed for the killing of three teenagers, followed by Israeli raids into Gaza and arrests of hundreds of people.

Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

How long would you let Tea Partiers shoot at your house before you did something?

Well, I'd start by not moving to some shiathole Tea Party infested backwater in Bumfark, AL, and then declaring it Libtopia, AL while displacing a bunch of nothing-to-lose Tea Partiers because my imaginary sky friend told me I could 4 thousand years ago.

That probably result in not getting shot at in the first place. But I guess that's crazy talk if you're a psychotic theocrat hell bent on fighting over a shiathole with other psychotic theocrats. Meh.


I notice that it is always the judeo christian sky wizard that gets blamed......never the Muslim sky wizard. Even with all the beheadings, bombings, kidnappings, rocket attacks, genital mutilations, honor killings, acid attacks......

Why is that?


/don't lose your head thinking about it
 
2014-07-31 07:38:58 PM  

Giltric: Serious Post on Serious Thread: Giltric: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: FTA: These new realities also help to explain why Hamas launched this round of fighting: It was isolated and in desperate shape financially.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with being blamed for the killing of three teenagers, followed by Israeli raids into Gaza and arrests of hundreds of people.

Hamas had been firing rockets at Israel for months before that incident.

How long would you let Tea Partiers shoot at your house before you did something?

Well, I'd start by not moving to some shiathole Tea Party infested backwater in Bumfark, AL, and then declaring it Libtopia, AL while displacing a bunch of nothing-to-lose Tea Partiers because my imaginary sky friend told me I could 4 thousand years ago.

That probably result in not getting shot at in the first place. But I guess that's crazy talk if you're a psychotic theocrat hell bent on fighting over a shiathole with other psychotic theocrats. Meh.

I notice that it is always the judeo christian sky wizard that gets blamed......never the Muslim sky wizard. Even with all the beheadings, bombings, kidnappings, rocket attacks, genital mutilations, honor killings, acid attacks......

Why is that?


/don't lose your head thinking about it


Sooooo...what you're saying is is that your own whack-a-doodle analogy illustrates how indefensible your own position is, so you'e just gonna make up some random crap I didn't say, attribute it to me, and then argue about that instead.

Ok.

But if I were to be foolish enough to engage your diversionary and pointless post, I guess I'd just point out that the 'judeo-christian' god is actually the 'judeo-christian-muslim' god. And that all ya'll do a pretty good job demonstrating the sociopathic bent of your diety (ie your own sociopathic desires you justify with religion) when given half a chance.
 
2014-07-31 08:55:51 PM  
The best solution is to stay the fark out of it. Don't waste another dime or or ounce of blood on that part of the world. We have interfered enough. They can either kill each other over stupid shiat or learn to work it out for their children;s sake.
 
2014-08-01 09:11:08 AM  

EwoksSuck: The best solution is to stay the fark out of it. Don't waste another dime or or ounce of blood on that part of the world. We have interfered enough. They can either kill each other over stupid shiat or learn to work it out for their children;s sake.


And you think foreign airport police will stop them flying to Hamburg, then to Mexico City, then cross the border with our great USBP (who can't even stop 13 yr olds); and then go on to blow up an office bldg where I live? No farking way!

You are naive to the level of Idiot~imbecile and I laugh even harder!
 
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