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(Slate)   Somehow, the global economy is destroying the demand for electricity. Which is ironic, considering we're all reading this on a computer, tablet, or smartphone powered by said electricity   (slate.com) divider line 80
    More: Strange, LED bulbs, SolarCity Corp, Chevy Malibu, Wall Street Journal, dale  
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4504 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2014 at 5:25 PM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-31 04:02:41 PM
Flat screens vs CRTs, huge savings.
SSD vs spinning drives, some savings.
Smart OSs turning stuff off when not in use, hibernation of OS and hardware, pretty big savings.

Yup, we are using more electronics, but they are using much less electricity.
 
2014-07-31 05:20:25 PM
UltraFARK doesn't need electricity. It will go on fore----- ++++CARRIER LOST++++
 
2014-07-31 05:27:38 PM
Says you. I'm reading and posting telepathically.
 
2014-07-31 05:29:09 PM
What's that now, subby?

www.geekalerts.com
 
2014-07-31 05:29:23 PM
Not me. I only have the analog version of Fark.
 
2014-07-31 05:30:01 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-31 05:30:34 PM
The switch to led lighting alone is going to cut energy use massively.  LCD TVs have already slashed the main power hog in most houses, the TV.  Lighting and cooling are next.  With lights not pumping out heat, cooling becomes cheaper too.
 
2014-07-31 05:33:19 PM
2% drop in US use vs. another billion people in Eurasia buying computers and joining Facebook.

fabiusmaximus.files.wordpress.com
/Hot like global warming.
//Not sure how this became a babe thread.
 
2014-07-31 05:34:40 PM

namatad: Flat screens vs CRTs, huge savings.
SSD vs spinning drives, some savings.
Smart OSs turning stuff off when not in use, hibernation of OS and hardware, pretty big savings.

Yup, we are using more electronics, but they are using much less electricity.


I am pretty sure that the old Zenith black and white console TV I grew up with in the 60s provided employment for a good percentage of two power plants

/could turn it on, fix breakfast and come back just as the tubes warmed up enough for a snowy picture to start forming
//in the winter it doubled as a space heater
 
2014-07-31 05:34:47 PM
Actually, you can trace this to two pretty concrete and simple (though not easy as such) changes in electricity demand:

1. The phasing out of CRT displays in favor of LED-based and various flat-screen technology.

2. Compact fluorescent lightbulbs.

In 2000, a huge chunk of total energy demand in the US (and the first world in general) was basic consumer shiat-- essentially, keeping the static lights and the shiny moving lights running.  As of 2008 or so that slice of the pie has shrunk  hugely, to the point that engineering has started to call consumer product efficiency a sort of done deal and renewed the focus on industrial efficiency, which is the biggest chunk of the pie now.

Those two things by themselves pretty much outright solved half of the problem and left a whole branch of engineering kinda blinking, shrugging, and moving on to the other half.  It's pretty impressive, especially when you consider that neither of the base technologies are  new.  CFLs, especially, are basically the same as the long fluorescent ceiling bulbs, but in a twisted tube with the ballast in the base.  Whoever was like "hey, I bet if we just shaped the farkers like current screw-in bulbs people would finally switch to using them" probably made a lot of people feel really dumb for not coming up with that shiat first.
 
2014-07-31 05:35:04 PM
and had we not deregulated Power production...this would not be a bad thing....

I mean if we use less water...does the water utility biatch about profits? no.

Utilities privatization is and always will be retarded policy.
 
2014-07-31 05:36:21 PM
The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!
 
2014-07-31 05:36:28 PM
The power companies will find a way to adapt, they'll dwindle like land-line phone providers, or they'll die. I doubt anyone will weep for them.
 
2014-07-31 05:36:58 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The switch to led lighting alone is going to cut energy use massively.  LCD TVs have already slashed the main power hog in most houses, the TV.  Lighting and cooling are next.  With lights not pumping out heat, cooling becomes cheaper too.


Well said. I've been changing lighting in my home precisely for cooling (the cost savings is - to me - a secondary benefit). It's made a significant difference in the parts of the house that have changed over. It also makes lights for letting people (notably kids) navigate the house at night without flipping every bloody switch they come to more practical. Stiar lights, for example, get farking HOT with incandescents).

Plus it frees up the dollars for my gaming rig, which is nice.
 
2014-07-31 05:38:30 PM
img.fark.net

Bill Jevons strokes his beard in perplexment.
 
2014-07-31 05:40:01 PM
Now let's go roll coal!
 
2014-07-31 05:42:16 PM
Using LCDs for displays and LED/CRT bulbs made a good bit of difference, but the biggest thing I did to cut energy use was to get better curtains. A grand total of $60 in cheap insulated curtains dropped my electric bill by over 20% a month... and paid for themselves in one summer.
 
2014-07-31 05:43:01 PM

groppet: The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!


You should convince her switch to a battery operated one.
 
2014-07-31 05:50:58 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: groppet: The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!

You should convince her switch to a battery operated one.


Batteries are inefficient, get her a pneumatic one with a gas powered compressor, make sure to spring for at least the 30 gallon model
 
2014-07-31 05:53:31 PM
With a heatpump, an electric dryer, and water heater, changing lights, screens, etc are meaningless. Running NG over to the utility room would cost a couple grand, plus the cost of replacing those units. Just not worth it. Solar? In Portland, OR? Ha, ha, ha. I need power at night in the winter, not mid-day in the summer and PGE pays close to zero for surplus power.
 
2014-07-31 05:53:31 PM

groppet: The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!


The Hitachi Magic Wand draws like twenty Amps.
 
2014-07-31 05:56:48 PM

Hollie Maea: groppet: The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!

The Hitachi Magic Wand draws like twenty Amps.


img.isp.org.cn

Just get her this industrial model and make her buy her own gas.
 
2014-07-31 05:56:53 PM
Well, that just means more capacity available for electric cars when they finally become practical.
 
2014-07-31 05:58:40 PM

Hollie Maea: groppet: The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!

The Hitachi Magic Wand draws like twenty Amps.


120 volts at 20 amps? May I suggest a bit of err "creative rewiring" may solve your problems...
 
2014-07-31 05:58:43 PM
Apparently the author thinks that wasteful and inefficient would be better, another right-wing propaganda article brought to you by the evil people at Slate.
 
2014-07-31 06:00:04 PM

natazha: With a heatpump, an electric dryer, and water heater, changing lights, screens, etc are meaningless. Running NG over to the utility room would cost a couple grand, plus the cost of replacing those units. Just not worth it. Solar? In Portland, OR? Ha, ha, ha. I need power at night in the winter, not mid-day in the summer and PGE pays close to zero for surplus power.


Actually, solar is quite attractive here in Portland.

My buddies down at elemental energy make a career helping Portlanders save money with solar.
 
2014-07-31 06:01:32 PM

namatad: Flat screens vs CRTs, huge savings.
SSD vs spinning drives, some savings.
Smart OSs turning stuff off when not in use, hibernation of OS and hardware, pretty big savings.

Yup, we are using more electronics, but they are using much less electricity.


Don't forget the mass abandonment of transformers and linear regulators in favor of switching power supplies.
 
2014-07-31 06:02:23 PM

Hollie Maea: My buddies down at elemental energy make a career helping Portlanders save money with solar.


Went to check out their website and got this:

Gateway Anti-Virus Alert

This request is blocked by the SonicWALL Gateway Anti-Virus Service. Name: JS.Agent.NKW_2 (Trojan)

Could just be work filter. Will check it out at home.
 
2014-07-31 06:06:50 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Hollie Maea: My buddies down at elemental energy make a career helping Portlanders save money with solar.

Went to check out their website and got this:

Gateway Anti-Virus Alert

This request is blocked by the SonicWALL Gateway Anti-Virus Service. Name: JS.Agent.NKW_2 (Trojan)

Could just be work filter. Will check it out at home.


Just in case, it's

elementalenergy.net

I'm not having any problems with the site.
 
2014-07-31 06:07:11 PM
Well Subby, not only does your computer monitor use less power than it did before, your laptop, smartphone or tablet uses way, way less than an old desktop computer.
 
2014-07-31 06:11:25 PM

Hollie Maea: Just in case, it's

elementalenergy.net

I'm not having any problems with the site.


Yeah, same thing. Chrome & IE. It's a work thing. Glad it's just me.
 
2014-07-31 06:16:12 PM
Maybe we could take a lesson from the Flintstones, and power all our devices using animals
(bird record players, elephant vacuum cleaners, squirrels and beavers as paint brushes,
pterodactyl airplanes.....you get the idea, Yabba-dabba-doo.)
 
2014-07-31 06:18:38 PM
Too many corporations and industries actively blocking widespread use of the emerging technology. I myself use a couple solar panels to help power my laptop, but the technology is a bit more complicated than that. my Mom had Panels installed on her house last year, to take advantage of the rebate program.
Here in NM, we don't have much of an incentive program.
 I just don't think there's enough incentive in the marketplace currently to make it appealing.
Granted, we'd rather pay higher prices now, yet less than the outlay for the technology..
 
2014-07-31 06:33:34 PM

BigNumber12: Bill Jevons strokes his beard in perplexment.


Jevon's paradox is just a highfalutin' way to say "I ain't gonna do anything because it won't help anyway".  It really isn't a broad-brush truism of economics, it's a specific observation of a specific set of circumstances in the dawn of the industrial age.

But once someone learns it, it somehow becomes perceived as received knowledge chiseled into tablets Al Gore kryptonite,
 
2014-07-31 06:36:00 PM
Ex-Texan:
Too many corporations and industries actively blocking widespread use of the emerging technology.

Which ones? All of the major corporations are quite happily using the stuff that actually works. Adoption of solar panels and efficient electronics by corporations is moving at a much faster pace than among the public at large. Heck, most of the bigger ones SELL the new tech - why should they block it?

The problem is that most of the more-fanciful tech just isn't that good yet, or costs too much.
 
2014-07-31 06:50:32 PM

bingethinker: Well Subby, not only does your computer monitor use less power than it did before, your laptop, smartphone or tablet uses way, way less than an old desktop computer.


EPRI Report(PDF), check out pages 4 and 5. It doesn't show changes over time for the most part, but most of the numbers were lower than I expected.
 
2014-07-31 06:51:32 PM

Mouser: Well, that just means more capacity available for electric cars when they finally become practical.


My next car will probably be electric (Leaf or Spark).  They are getting 80-90 miles a charge at the moment, which is more than enough.  Even after my recent move, which tripled my commute, that's still well within all the travel I do in the day, including driving for lunch and shopping on the way home.  The cost per mile in fuel is a lot less, and there's a LOT less maintenance (just brakes and tires).  I figure my fuel savings will nearly cover the lease.

My current car will mostly collect dust, and only be brought out on weekends for longer trips or to run it a few miles to keep the rubber from deteriorating.
 
2014-07-31 06:53:10 PM
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

Solar powered bullet.
 
2014-07-31 06:54:06 PM

Pribar: Hollie Maea: groppet: The biggest energy hog in my home is my roomate. I dunno what she does when she is there but I think I should put the electric bill in her name. Last August was the best example she was dating some guy and spent about 90% of the month at his place the bill that month was $40 they break up she comes back and the bill in September was $120. WOMEN!!!

The Hitachi Magic Wand draws like twenty Amps.

120 volts at 20 amps? May I suggest a bit of err "creative rewiring" may solve your problems...


And then groppet would have to find a new roommate.
 
2014-07-31 06:56:46 PM
I don't know much about the mechanics of the thing, but upgrading the ac unit and air handler at home saves about $100 a month off the electric bills.  Plenty of Floridians still out there with units from the 90's though, so FPL is safe for now.
 
2014-07-31 07:04:14 PM

Tobin_Lam: bingethinker: Well Subby, not only does your computer monitor use less power than it did before, your laptop, smartphone or tablet uses way, way less than an old desktop computer.

EPRI Report(PDF), check out pages 4 and 5. It doesn't show changes over time for the most part, but most of the numbers were lower than I expected.


I'm not surprised that a laptop only consumes about a third of what a desktop computer does. But a tablet uses only about one to one-and-a-half percent of the energy of a desktop? Wow!
 
2014-07-31 07:04:18 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Mouser: Well, that just means more capacity available for electric cars when they finally become practical.

My next car will probably be electric (Leaf or Spark).  They are getting 80-90 miles a charge at the moment, which is more than enough.  Even after my recent move, which tripled my commute, that's still well within all the travel I do in the day, including driving for lunch and shopping on the way home.  The cost per mile in fuel is a lot less, and there's a LOT less maintenance (just brakes and tires).  I figure my fuel savings will nearly cover the lease.

My current car will mostly collect dust, and only be brought out on weekends for longer trips or to run it a few miles to keep the rubber from deteriorating.


Yeah, if I had the parking options and the ability to install a power station at my apartment, yada yada, someone would just steal the cable. But 4 days a week I hardly go out, maybe a few miles to the gym or lunch, get a few items at Sam's Club. But two days a week I go out in search of inventory, and I don't consider it a good day if I don't fill at least two Bankers 701s, the long records boxes. Normally I fill four, my extended cab truck doesn't hold more. Those are a pair of shopping circuits that can cover 110-120 miles each, and mandatory AC in Texas. And one day a week I need the ability to take 400-500 pounds of 16x12x12 inch boxes to the UPS place. Between 5 and 9 of them.

I love the idea of an electric car, but they're hardly more practical for the really local stuff than a bike.
 
2014-07-31 07:04:27 PM

Skleenar: BigNumber12: Bill Jevons strokes his beard in perplexment.

Jevon's paradox is just a highfalutin' way to say "I ain't gonna do anything because it won't help anyway".  It really isn't a broad-brush truism of economics, it's a specific observation of a specific set of circumstances in the dawn of the industrial age.

But once someone learns it, it somehow becomes perceived as received knowledge chiseled into tablets Al Gore kryptonite,


It was a joke. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
 
2014-07-31 07:14:39 PM
You want the nostalgia of paying historical "peak demand" prices? Come to sunny Southern California!

/Things went Enron and never recovered
 
2014-07-31 07:16:54 PM

Jim_Callahan: It's pretty impressive, especially when you consider that neither of the base technologies are  new.  CFLs, especially, are basically the same as the long fluorescent ceiling bulbs, but in a twisted tube with the ballast in the base.  Whoever was like "hey, I bet if we just shaped the farkers like current screw-in bulbs people would finally switch to using them" probably made a lot of people feel really dumb for not coming up with that shiat first.


I know this is Fark, but I'm kind of an electrical engineer. What made CFLs possible is the advent of high-current, high-power, high-heat switching solid state electronics, something that really didn't exist in that size or capability until 1985. CFLs before the mid 90's were pretty sensitive to transients and other badness, meaning that they'd blow really easily, also.
 
2014-07-31 07:19:08 PM

wildcardjack: Yeah, if I had the parking options and the ability to install a power station at my apartment, yada yada, someone would just steal the cable.


From reading the rest of your comment, you have need of a truck and don't have space to have to vehicles, so you are out.  But this one at least isn't a good argument.  Most people carry a portable charger/adapter in their trunk if they aren't leaving it on the wall.  It plugs into a standard 110v outlet for slow charging, or a 220v outlet for fast charging.  Just pull it out, plug one end into the wall outlet, the other end into your car.  Then just stow it away when you head out.
 
2014-07-31 07:21:50 PM
Solar is getting interesting.  I may put something together.  AGM cells are not becoming less expensive as I had hoped.  LiPo should be down also, but I guess Lithium is still high.

Propane should be WAY down, but it's not.  All that fracking?  Should be sub $1/gal.  Instead it's Gas pricing.  Rediculous.  I'd do a LP generator in a heartbeat if LP prices were where they should be.  Tanks are cheap.

Still - city utility is the best deal going.  I had wanted to do Off Grid but sadly still a pipe dream.
 
2014-07-31 07:22:49 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: wildcardjack: Yeah, if I had the parking options and the ability to install a power station at my apartment, yada yada, someone would just steal the cable.

From reading the rest of your comment, you have need of a truck and don't have space to have to vehicles, so you are out.  But this one at least isn't a good argument.  Most people carry a portable charger/adapter in their trunk if they aren't leaving it on the wall.  It plugs into a standard 110v outlet for slow charging, or a 220v outlet for fast charging.  Just pull it out, plug one end into the wall outlet, the other end into your car.  Then just stow it away when you head out.


Yeah, and where would I plug in? You just gave me a product idea, if it doesn't exist already.
 
2014-07-31 07:32:35 PM
Give it a few more years... almost everyone will need air conditioning.

/shifts portfolio to energy and such as
 
2014-07-31 07:36:49 PM

wildcardjack: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: wildcardjack: Yeah, if I had the parking options and the ability to install a power station at my apartment, yada yada, someone would just steal the cable.

From reading the rest of your comment, you have need of a truck and don't have space to have to vehicles, so you are out.  But this one at least isn't a good argument.  Most people carry a portable charger/adapter in their trunk if they aren't leaving it on the wall.  It plugs into a standard 110v outlet for slow charging, or a 220v outlet for fast charging.  Just pull it out, plug one end into the wall outlet, the other end into your car.  Then just stow it away when you head out.

Yeah, and where would I plug in? You just gave me a product idea, if it doesn't exist already.



Emergency baby generator and cord set for taking your Leaf to Vegas---just stop at the nearest gas station with a diner nearby, and fire that puppy up in the parking lot while you have a burger.
 
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