If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Daily Beast)   Universities are starting to realize that having an entire department dedicating to teaching students how to analyze the feminist symbolism of Chaucerian mythology and its effect on post-Industrial deconstructionism might be kind of a waste   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 377
    More: Obvious, James Pulizzi, contemporary literature, literary fiction, deviancy, Leo Tolstoy, progressivisms  
•       •       •

10937 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2014 at 2:59 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



377 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-07-28 01:43:54 PM
What's that?  I was too busy reading up on 15th century French Poetry for my dissertation....
 
2014-07-28 02:04:14 PM
As standards migrate from the mountain to the basement, the formerly vulgar, indecent, and stupid becomes the norm. One can easily see how eventually thinkers like Pulizzi will delete a few words from their rhetorical question to simply ask, "Why should college students read?"

This is where I stopped reading.  The end, or curtailing, of college English departments does not signal the demise of literature altogether.  You don't need to spend $40k a year to be exposed to great literature, most of it is in the public domain anyway.
 
2014-07-28 02:47:37 PM
Perhaps they need to dedicate a department to teach subby grammar.
 
2014-07-28 02:57:41 PM
As a hiring manager, I can say that at least in some corners of the non-McDonald's level workplace, critical thought and the ability to express yourself in writing without coming across like a Mr. Gumby sketch are still important.
 
2014-07-28 03:00:19 PM
While we're at it, ditch the grammarians too. They're idiots.

(There idiots for the win)
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-28 03:01:08 PM
Computer industry job ads routinely call for "excellent written and oral communications skills." These same job ads call for a CS degree, so your Proto-feminist Oppression Studies thesis still won't get you past the hiring computer.
 
2014-07-28 03:02:30 PM
Critical thinking is not taught in Engineering classes.
 
2014-07-28 03:03:15 PM

Cagey B: As a hiring manager, I can say that at least in some corners of the non-McDonald's level workplace, critical thought and the ability to express yourself in writing without coming across like a Mr. Gumby sketch are still important.


Which an English major may or may not be able to demonstrate.  I've seen a lot of cover letters and resumes where the writing is so overblown it's useless and indecipherable.  That was one of the great things about law school - it taught me to (ironically enough) be brief and to the point when writing.
 
2014-07-28 03:03:40 PM

ZAZ: Computer industry job ads routinely call for "excellent written and oral communications skills." These same job ads call for a CS degree, so your Proto-feminist Oppression Studies thesis still won't get you past the hiring computer.


I'm amazed those positions ever get filled, but they do because you eventually just say "Hmm, the guy is brilliant and that more than makes up for the lack of communications skills."
 
2014-07-28 03:03:43 PM
I'm not entirely surprised given an increasingly mercenary society who not only have come to believe that the sole value in education is in what potential it has to bring in income, but who don't seem to have a problem rejecting the intrinsic value of learning on its own.Philistines.
 
2014-07-28 03:03:47 PM

ZAZ: Computer industry job ads routinely call for "excellent written and oral communications skills." These same job ads call for a CS degree, so your Proto-feminist Oppression Studies thesis still won't get you past the hiring computer.


Why not both?
/English and comp sci double major
 
2014-07-28 03:03:48 PM
We really should cut down on all them academics they got over thar in academia. Moar skills, less libs!
 
2014-07-28 03:03:53 PM
tl, dr
 
2014-07-28 03:04:22 PM
It is easy to observe the sad and sickly decline of American intellectual life,

Umm, OK.
 
2014-07-28 03:04:23 PM
//creative writing concentration
///lol
 
2014-07-28 03:04:30 PM
Remember:

Engineers design and build nuclear weapons.  Liberal Arts majors justify their use.
 
2014-07-28 03:04:34 PM

advex101: Critical thinking is not taught in Engineering classes.


LOL.  Where is it taught?  In a class where a bunch of students try their best to parrot their instructor's viewpoint on the latent homosexuality in Hemingway's canon?
 
2014-07-28 03:04:36 PM
Yeah really, I mean if it wasn't created in the past 25 years who gives a crap right? I mean what on earth could anyone gain from looking into the past of humanity in order to understand the progress of civilization?  Burn it down and turn it into a parking lot for the MBA program. We'll make way more money that way and that's all that's important.
 
2014-07-28 03:04:49 PM
Stop sniffing subby!

/obscure as Webb's wonder lettuce
 
2014-07-28 03:06:36 PM
Courses are only a waste if nobody's interested in taking the courses they offer.

University isn't just a vocational school; actual academic education that doesn't directly train one for a trade should play at least some role in a university education unless we're going to drop the pretense and formally call them trade schools.
 
2014-07-28 03:07:06 PM
I thought this was going to be about Womyn's Studies.
 
2014-07-28 03:07:33 PM

advex101: Critical thinking is not taught in Engineering classes.


Since when did problem solving not become a form of critical thinking?

Anyways, if an academic department (they usually look like "***** Studies") simply exists to propagate an ideology, then they should probably go extinct.  No real demand is made from the market on these majors and a bulk of their funding comes from either the government or political organizations.
 
2014-07-28 03:07:55 PM

FLMountainMan: Cagey B: As a hiring manager, I can say that at least in some corners of the non-McDonald's level workplace, critical thought and the ability to express yourself in writing without coming across like a Mr. Gumby sketch are still important.

Which an English major may or may not be able to demonstrate.  I've seen a lot of cover letters and resumes where the writing is so overblown it's useless and indecipherable.  That was one of the great things about law school - it taught me to (ironically enough) be brief and to the point when writing.


But as your experience demonstrates, it's much easier for people whose prose is too flowery to learn to be more concise, than it is for people who just can't write to learn to write effectively in the first place.
 
2014-07-28 03:07:59 PM

Fark It: As standards migrate from the mountain to the basement, the formerly vulgar, indecent, and stupid becomes the norm. One can easily see how eventually thinkers like Pulizzi will delete a few words from their rhetorical question to simply ask, "Why should college students read?"

This is where I stopped reading.  The end, or curtailing, of college English departments does not signal the demise of literature altogether.  You don't need to spend $40k a year to be exposed to great literature, most of it is in the public domain anyway.


Having watched a documentary on Charlie Chaplin's first two years in film, I'm beginning to believe the Intratubes is Sennettizing media and culture in America. Or maybe we've sunk past that level already.
 
2014-07-28 03:08:01 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: While we're at it, ditch the grammarians too. They're idiots.

(There idiots for the win)


But what if their idiots revolt?
 
2014-07-28 03:09:59 PM

FLMountainMan: That was one of the great things about law school - it taught me to (ironically enough) be brief and to the point when writing.


LAW school?

Really?

I put all the law school grads in a big "no" pile when looking for writers.
 
2014-07-28 03:10:31 PM
Padding article with a shiatton of unnecessary "big" words so that you come off as snooty = you'renothelping.jpg
 
2014-07-28 03:10:32 PM
I... I took that class
 
2014-07-28 03:10:43 PM

Fark It: As standards migrate from the mountain to the basement, the formerly vulgar, indecent, and stupid becomes the norm. One can easily see how eventually thinkers like Pulizzi will delete a few words from their rhetorical question to simply ask, "Why should college students read?"

This is where I stopped reading.  The end, or curtailing, of college English departments does not signal the demise of literature altogether.  You don't need to spend $40k a year to be exposed to great literature, most of it is in the public domain anyway.


Hopefully you're getting something more than just exposure in a university setting.
 
2014-07-28 03:11:13 PM
Writers that is, authors of novels, are maybe better off anyway if they don't 'study literature' beforehand. Let them meet in bars, I say.
 
2014-07-28 03:11:19 PM

ByOwlLight: Padding article with a shiatton of unnecessary "big" words so that you come off as snooty = you'renothelping.jpg


Never use a big word when a diminutive word will work.
 
2014-07-28 03:11:25 PM
Probably need the money to hire Spanish Language Faculty...
 
2014-07-28 03:12:00 PM

advex101: Critical thinking is not taught in Engineering classes.


Yes it is. There's no way you'd graduate otherwise.
 
2014-07-28 03:12:19 PM
University isn't a jobs program. The fact that Americans treat it like one has almost certainly degraded the quality of the education that one gets - how else are these schools to cope with the continual influx of freshmen who have neither the interest or the inclination for higher learning, yet are forced to make a show of getting a "gentleman's C" so that they have relatively average job prospects in the future.

Whenever I hear someone bemoan "Such and such is useless, why do they teach it at university?" I am grateful to them for immediately drawing my attention to the fact that they are a moron and not worth my time to interact with. University exists to teach you how to think, not to prepare you for a trade. I know in America, that statement isn't always true, but that's the ideal.
 
2014-07-28 03:12:26 PM
Oh subby, you little prick.  I was just polishing my 100 page doctoral thesis in the analysis of feminist symbolism in Chaucerian mythology and its effect on post-industrial deconstructionism, and you come along and tell me it's all for naught.  18 years of school down the draiin.
 
2014-07-28 03:12:30 PM

advex101: Critical thinking is not taught in Engineering classes.


Critical thinking is taught in physics classes:

img.fark.net
 
2014-07-28 03:14:04 PM
Good.
And this is entirely self-inflicted, but navel-gazing attention whores who dominate the so-called "English" departments.

Maybe if they spent more time teaching writing to a college level standard and less time fapping to "Catcher in the Rye" and neo-feminist, Deridian, hermeneutics and obfustication theory they wouldn't have this problem.
 
2014-07-28 03:14:28 PM

FLMountainMan: Which an English major may or may not be able to demonstrate. I've seen a lot of cover letters and resumes where the writing is so overblown it's useless and indecipherable. That was one of the great things about law school - it taught me to (ironically enough) be brief and to the point when writing.


Fair enough, of course law courses rely heavily on principles of grammar, rhetoric, and logic, key components of a liberal arts education. I knew a lot of humanities-type majors that later went on to law school and other more specialized post-graduate work.

None of that is to say that an engineer can't write a sentence (though of course I've met plenty who indeed can't). But there's definite value in an English major for those who can apply it properly.
 
2014-07-28 03:14:52 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-28 03:15:47 PM

ByOwlLight: Padding article with a shiatton of unnecessary "big" words so that you come off as snooty = you'renothelping.jpg


Academic English isn't about communication.

This is what you get when you train undergrads to write to a word-count and perpetuate that all the way up to the tenure-track process.
 
2014-07-28 03:15:47 PM
Book lernin!? Y'all need to lern how to pull levers and punch a damn time clock!
 
2014-07-28 03:16:29 PM
Article is too long and boring to read
 
2014-07-28 03:16:38 PM
Reading, and most especially reading a novel, strengthens the attention span, because it requires sustained focus on a visually and aurally dull product. The more interactive the medium, the more it will stunt the attention span.

[citation needed]

Look, I'm a reader before a gamer. When I was 4, I was afraid to stay home sick from pre-school because I didn't want to miss the day we learned to read.

That said, I'm not any more of a fan of book-snobbery than I am of the attitude that reading doesn't matter, and I'm certainly not a fan of repeating unverified facts as if they were truth just because you find it easy to believe that anything that agrees with your position must be accurate.

How about, for instance, instead of:

And that is precisely why college students should read instead of relying on HBO and the makers of Grand Theft Auto to hone their understanding and appreciation of narrative.

We have college students home their understanding and appreciation of narrative using both reading and HBO/narrative video games?
 
2014-07-28 03:17:13 PM

advex101: Remember:

Engineers design and build nuclear weapons.  Liberal Arts majors justify their use.


Is this supposed to be praise of Engineers? Makes them sound like thoughtless drones.
 
2014-07-28 03:17:44 PM
Did anyone ever develop a love for reading literature in college? Pretty much every bookworm I know was hooked before they turned 10.
 
2014-07-28 03:17:47 PM
Maybe instead of eliminating a subject, there should be a maximum amount of students allowed in said subject instead. If schools were only permitted to graduate 10 English majors per year instead of 10,000, we might alleviate the problem without removing the benefit.
 
2014-07-28 03:18:34 PM

Laobaojun: Maybe if they spent more time teaching writing to a college level standard and less time fapping to "Catcher in the Rye" and neo-feminist, Deridian, hermeneutics and obfustication theory they wouldn't have this problem.


If you ask college professors, they'll blame high school teachers for bad writing.

If you ask high school teachers, they'll blame grade-school teachers.

If you ask me, the problem is parents.
 
2014-07-28 03:18:59 PM

menschenfresser: Courses are only a waste if nobody's interested in taking the courses they offer.

University isn't just a vocational school; actual academic education that doesn't directly train one for a trade should play at least some role in a university education unless we're going to drop the pretense and formally call them trade schools.


THIS right here is the big debate of our time in higher education.  More and more, people are looking at university as an investment, and they want to see returns in the form of higher paychecks down the road.  It's an understandable way of thinking, given the rising costs of education, but it places the entire concept of the university at a crossroads.  Sometimes I think we need to make schools choose: either give up any pretense to intellectual development and focus on teaching marketable skills, or pick the academic identity and quit worrying about post-graduation jobs and only focus on intellectual development and research.  Our universities have been trying (and with only a few exceptions, failing) to have it both ways.
 
2014-07-28 03:19:11 PM

Cagey B: As a hiring manager, I can say that at least in some corners of the non-McDonald's level workplace, critical thought and the ability to express yourself in writing without coming across like a Mr. Gumby sketch are still important.


Which is point I always thought of getting a liberal-arts education. So nobody going get a job studying feminist objects in Chaucerian mythology, but students would have better critical thinking skills that would prepare them for life after college in a broad field of jobs. Whole point of liberal arts degree was to not be so concentrated in one specific field, thus why universities over years increased broad range of requirements. By time I reached college, we had new minimum levels of math and science we had to have reached before graduation.

I know farkers love to poke fun at the people that had English majors and couldnt find decent job after college after recession. Believe me, go work with much of technical engineers whose sole education is just one field, you will farking appreciate if not beg for some English majors.
 
2014-07-28 03:19:39 PM

FLMountainMan: advex101: Critical thinking is not taught in Engineering classes.

LOL.  Where is it taught?  In a class where a bunch of students try their best to parrot their instructor's viewpoint on the latent homosexuality in Hemingway's canon?


Michigan Tech's critical thinking and logic course (one of many humanities electives you could choose from) was part of the Humanities department (their version of the English Department).  My professor sounded like a drier version of Ben Stein.  I can still remember the way he said "Modus Tolens".

Granted you should pick up enough critical thinking and logic from your other courses, but there were more than a few creationists running around campus, and a few people that believed the First Amendment only applies to Protestant Christians, not Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, or Jews; and others that got extremely upset the Muslim Student Association had been allowed to rent a room in the student union building during Ramadan for prayers since there was no mosque in town.
 
Displayed 50 of 377 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report