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(Badass Digest)   Disney's official canon will finally tell us how the Empire's biggest failure became so important in the first place   (badassdigest.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Darth Vader, Star Wars, comic books, Star Destroyer, Alderaan, Death Star  
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11881 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Jul 2014 at 3:07 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-27 10:08:23 PM  
He joins a health care program.
 
2014-07-28 12:26:05 AM  
So, Mr. Vader, it's time for your yearly review. Your assignment this year was to recover the stolen Death Star plans from the rebels, correct?
"Yes sir, we tracked them to a backwater planet where coincidentally I grew up and my mom died, but that's not important right now."
And then they escaped with said plans? And instead of taking them someplace safe, they ended up bringing them to the Death Star itself?
"Yes sir but we had Princess Leia and I tortured her and blew up her planet!"
Which lost political support for us in that entire quadrant of the galaxy. So then what happened to the rebel plans?
"Well sir, they escaped us again but not before rescuing Princess Leia, but she was pointless by then anyway."
And then they took the plans someplace safe so the rebels could study them. Well I see here your secondary assignment was to protect the Death Star, how did that go?
"Well sir..."
 
2014-07-28 12:50:14 AM  
Didnt Robot Chicken do that already?
 
2014-07-28 01:44:30 AM  
All the fault of the guy who decided the title needn't include 'of Mars'
 
2014-07-28 02:45:08 AM  

nerds

 
2014-07-28 03:29:27 AM  

Therion: All the fault of the guy who decided the title needn't include 'of Mars'


I really hope that guy's a janitor now.
 
2014-07-28 03:35:19 AM  
Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emperor.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).
 
2014-07-28 03:55:42 AM  
Vader becomes a lot less intimidating when you realize all that stuff on his chest were fart noise buttons
 
2014-07-28 04:04:28 AM  
What the hell is an "Aluminum Falcon?!?"
 
2014-07-28 04:05:30 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn' ...


Your newsletter, I wish to subscribe to it
 
2014-07-28 04:14:38 AM  
Oh great, another story about Vader's background.  What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe this could be done as a new trilogy. . .
 
2014-07-28 04:20:17 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emperor.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).


This is secretly Vader himself, defending his legacy.
 
2014-07-28 04:24:11 AM  
"How the hell does he end up in command of his own Star Destroyer by the time The Empire Strikes Backopens, and taking orders directly from The Emperor himself? "

Uh....he's a Sith Lord and the Emperor's right hand man. He's always taken orders directly from the Emperor. Dude doesn't answer to anyone BUT the Emperor and he was in command of a Star Destroyer at the beginning of New Hope when he captured Leia's ship so it's hardly surprising he would continue to be in command.

As for why the Emperor didn't hand him his ass at the end of New Hope? Maybe the Emperor did chew him out, maybe not. The Emperor uses the Force to see future events and manipulate them so maybe things went as planned. He sacrificed a space station to flush out the rebels who, at the beginning of Empire, are on the run. They had obviously been forced to flee their cushy little base on Yavin for that desolate, frozen hell on Hoth so they weren't exactly doing well despite blowing up an overly large space station.

Vader's "rise to power" between New Hope and Empire is a non-story. He's been large and in charge since he first appeared.
 
2014-07-28 04:54:40 AM  
Given he was a (decorated?) General or somesuch throughout the Clone Wars in charge of fleets at some points, why wouldn't he be trusted with a Star Destroyer? I guess it depends on how many Imperials knew he was Anakin Skywalker, and whether they would willingly follow an ex-Republic hero or complete unknown. Don't ask me why anyone thought giving Jedi military command was a good idea in the first place.
 
2014-07-28 05:05:06 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: What the hell is an "Aluminum Falcon?!?"


Love that bit.
 
2014-07-28 05:17:21 AM  

Burra: Don't ask me why anyone thought giving Jedi military command was a good idea in the first place.


If we're talking about the prequels... actually my assumption is that they  weren't given command, they just seized it under their own religious authority, as with the Vatican randomly trying to appoint lords and commanders of armies during the schisms and crusades.

Sort of makes the rest of the story make sense, especially how Palpatine got everyone to go along with exterminating the Jedi, at the expense of making Palpatine correct that they were directly, actively threatening the Republic and that he was the better option, mystic-sorcerer-wise.

// Then, they did try to illegally arrest him in episode 3, and when he pointed out that the arrest was illegal they immediately tried to  murder a sitting senator on the suspicion of being a Sith-- something that couldn't  possibly have been illegal, since no one but the Jedi even knew the Sith were a  mythological thing, much less a real thing.  So... Palpatine was kinda in the right anyhow.
 
2014-07-28 05:30:16 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emperor.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).


This post is the reason the geek tab exists.
 
2014-07-28 05:53:31 AM  

BalugaJoe: Didnt Robot Chicken do that already?


Only is someone else did it first.
 
2014-07-28 05:58:56 AM  

MechaPyx: "How the hell does he end up in command of his own Star Destroyer by the time The Empire Strikes Backopens, and taking orders directly from The Emperor himself? "

Uh....he's a Sith Lord and the Emperor's right hand man. He's always taken orders directly from the Emperor. Dude doesn't answer to anyone BUT the Emperor and he was in command of a Star Destroyer at the beginning of New Hope when he captured Leia's ship so it's hardly surprising he would continue to be in command.

As for why the Emperor didn't hand him his ass at the end of New Hope? Maybe the Emperor did chew him out, maybe not. The Emperor uses the Force to see future events and manipulate them so maybe things went as planned. He sacrificed a space station to flush out the rebels who, at the beginning of Empire, are on the run. They had obviously been forced to flee their cushy little base on Yavin for that desolate, frozen hell on Hoth so they weren't exactly doing well despite blowing up an overly large space station.

Vader's "rise to power" between New Hope and Empire is a non-story. He's been large and in charge since he first appeared.


GUYS!

We need this story so that we don't remember the period between ANH and ESB that is 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' they may have forgotten to wipe it out with the canon erasing gun.
 
2014-07-28 06:10:14 AM  
Vader was just supposed to be the creepy Bond miniboss henchman with a gimmick, like Oddjob or Jaws. The story didn't revolve around him, he was just another funky part of a massive epic. But Lucas saw how popular he was and couldn't help himself... every movie after A New Hope just furthers the fan service of Vader, Fett, and anyone else who catches the fickle eyes of the Kenner-buying public.
 
2014-07-28 06:43:55 AM  

SamFlagg: MechaPyx: "How the hell does he end up in command of his own Star Destroyer by the time The Empire Strikes Backopens, and taking orders directly from The Emperor himself? "

Uh....he's a Sith Lord and the Emperor's right hand man. He's always taken orders directly from the Emperor. Dude doesn't answer to anyone BUT the Emperor and he was in command of a Star Destroyer at the beginning of New Hope when he captured Leia's ship so it's hardly surprising he would continue to be in command.

As for why the Emperor didn't hand him his ass at the end of New Hope? Maybe the Emperor did chew him out, maybe not. The Emperor uses the Force to see future events and manipulate them so maybe things went as planned. He sacrificed a space station to flush out the rebels who, at the beginning of Empire, are on the run. They had obviously been forced to flee their cushy little base on Yavin for that desolate, frozen hell on Hoth so they weren't exactly doing well despite blowing up an overly large space station.

Vader's "rise to power" between New Hope and Empire is a non-story. He's been large and in charge since he first appeared.

GUYS!

We need this story so that we don't remember the period between ANH and ESB that is 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' they may have forgotten to wipe it out with the canon erasing gun.


I own a copy of, and have read Splinter of the Minds Eye. I've forgotten what it was about long ago.
 
2014-07-28 07:15:39 AM  

Jim_Callahan: on the suspicion of being a Sith-- something that couldn't  possibly have been illegal, since no one but the Jedi even knew the Sith were a  mythological thing, much less a real thing.  So... Palpatine was kinda in the right anyhow.


Are you sure? It seems to me the Sith were a known thing. Why would the Sith have completely vanished from memory?
 
2014-07-28 07:25:36 AM  
Vader was more like Imperial Japan's Lord Privy Seal.   He wielded tremendous influence and served as the face of the Emperor when asses needed to be kicked (such as the construction of the second Death Star) but he was not in an office per se.  He had no reports to file, he answered to no one but the emperor.

This may seem odd but it actually is a sensible arrangement for a despot, and historically they are common.  If secondary circles of power at the top are ambiguous it is hard for people to unite to overthrow the despot.
 
2014-07-28 07:34:12 AM  
They didn't vanish from memory.  They had controlled the galaxy (or at least half), and destroyed planets before.  People don't just forget crap like that.  They had gone to the rule of two or some such crap so that there was only supposed to be 2 sith running around at any one time.  This is broken time and again as there are obviously more than 2 sith running around during the prequels and the clone wars.  Look at it this way, when there's only a handful left of a once giant organization in an entire galaxy, I think people may be forgiven for believing that it's been pretty much wiped out.
 
2014-07-28 07:36:03 AM  
Where's the Sebulba backstory?
 
2014-07-28 07:37:06 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emperor.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).


This. Discussion over.
 
2014-07-28 07:46:03 AM  
I guess I always wondered about this..
Towards the end of a new hope they were waiting for the moon in orbit around Yavin to appear so they could attack the rebel base... why didn't they just shoot Yavin? I mean, if only they had some device with a demonstrated ability to destroy a planet they might have been able to make that happen.
 
2014-07-28 07:54:47 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Vader becomes a lot less intimidating when you realize all that stuff on his chest were fart noise buttons


Oh great... now I have an image of Vader waiting for the Emperor to sit in his swivel chair and Vader saying in his Vader voice "What's the matter Emperor sit on a duck?"
 
2014-07-28 08:01:36 AM  

zamboni: I guess I always wondered about this..
Towards the end of a new hope they were waiting for the moon in orbit around Yavin to appear so they could attack the rebel base... why didn't they just shoot Yavin? I mean, if only they had some device with a demonstrated ability to destroy a planet they might have been able to make that happen.


That would be admitting that the Rebels had any chance of winning.
 
2014-07-28 08:15:58 AM  

Slaxl: Jim_Callahan: on the suspicion of being a Sith-- something that couldn't  possibly have been illegal, since no one but the Jedi even knew the Sith were a  mythological thing, much less a real thing.  So... Palpatine was kinda in the right anyhow.

Are you sure? It seems to me the Sith were a known thing. Why would the Sith have completely vanished from memory?


The in-universe "official" explanation is that they just went underground, the Jedi took credit for having destroyed the farkers thousands of years earlier, and the general public just didn't care.  As of the prequels, the last of the Sith supposedly was long dead before the current version of the republic was even formed, and even many of the Jedi express skepticism as to them being a real thing rather than a bedtime story.

I guess that doesn't necessarily preclude having a law against them, but it would make it really, really odd.  Like, as odd as if the US had laws on the books allowing the police to summarily execute people without trial on suspicion of being a shape-shifting unicorn with a magical pot of gold.

The unofficial Expanded Universe explanation is deeper, more complex, and boils down to something that can only really be summarized by the .jpg of the tinfoil hat guy with the "ITS A CONSPIRACY" macro text.  But after you wade through all the lizard people impersonating the british royal family so as to fake the moon landing from a soundstage on mars and put the recording in our vaccines, it ends in the same place pre-prequel, with knowledge of the sith essentially wiped out of the general awareness of the public and even most of the Jedi.

The real, out-of-universe explanation is, of course, that George Lucas is a shiat writer and couldn't figure out how to actually write a character sneaky enough to pull that deception off, so he retroactively decided that the Sith were essentially unknown for the sole purpose of handing the Jedi the requisite cultural idiot ball for missing the most incredibly obvious dark Jedi ever hanging out and having tea with the council on a regular basis.  This should surprise no one, given that he's resorted to "wipe that droid's memory" like four different times to try to spackle over plot-holes (unsuccessfully).

// nerdin' up the thread, nerdin' up the thread, dum dee dum dee dum.
 
2014-07-28 08:15:59 AM  

zamboni: Towards the end of a new hope they were waiting for the moon in orbit around Yavin to appear so they could attack the rebel base... why didn't they just shoot Yavin? I mean, if only they had some device with a demonstrated ability to destroy a planet they might have been able to make that happen.


Well, if I remember that thing I've watched when I was a child correctly, rebels were on the moon, Yavin was an unpopulated giant. They apparently couldn't shoot at the moon through Yavin, so they waited for firing position.

Shooting Yavin itself wouldn't kill anyone, at least not quickly, but would likely create enough chaos in space for rebels to be able to fly through the blockade fleet. Destruction of the planet does not destroy the moon, or else the death star itself would be destroyed.
 
2014-07-28 08:17:53 AM  

zamboni: I guess I always wondered about this..
Towards the end of a new hope they were waiting for the moon in orbit around Yavin to appear so they could attack the rebel base... why didn't they just shoot Yavin? I mean, if only they had some device with a demonstrated ability to destroy a planet they might have been able to make that happen.


If the moon's orbit was far enough away, it would have survived the blast and would have become an exo-moon. Not sure how long it takes to ready another shot from the Death Star, but even if it only took a few minutes maybe it had a intergalactic law constraint, like they only are authorized to blow up planets/moons where they had an officially confirmed rebel base sighting. Or maybe the power source is depleted after one shot, and needed hours or even days to recover.
 
2014-07-28 08:20:29 AM  

doglover: Therion: All the fault of the guy who decided the title needn't include 'of Mars'

I really hope that guy's a janitor now.


The guy who decided the title didn't need to include "of Mars" was the same guy who wrote and directed the movie.  He also directed "Finding Nemo" and "Wall-E."

So no, not a janitor.
 
2014-07-28 08:25:28 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Slaxl: Jim_Callahan: on the suspicion of being a Sith-- something that couldn't  possibly have been illegal, since no one but the Jedi even knew the Sith were a  mythological thing, much less a real thing.  So... Palpatine was kinda in the right anyhow.

Are you sure? It seems to me the Sith were a known thing. Why would the Sith have completely vanished from memory?

The in-universe "official" explanation is that they just went underground, the Jedi took credit for having destroyed the farkers thousands of years earlier, and the general public just didn't care.  As of the prequels, the last of the Sith supposedly was long dead before the current version of the republic was even formed, and even many of the Jedi express skepticism as to them being a real thing rather than a bedtime story.

I guess that doesn't necessarily preclude having a law against them, but it would make it really, really odd.  Like, as odd as if the US had laws on the books allowing the police to summarily execute people without trial on suspicion of being a shape-shifting unicorn with a magical pot of gold.

The unofficial Expanded Universe explanation is deeper, more complex, and boils down to something that can only really be summarized by the .jpg of the tinfoil hat guy with the "ITS A CONSPIRACY" macro text.  But after you wade through all the lizard people impersonating the british royal family so as to fake the moon landing from a soundstage on mars and put the recording in our vaccines, it ends in the same place pre-prequel, with knowledge of the sith essentially wiped out of the general awareness of the public and even most of the Jedi.

The real, out-of-universe explanation is, of course, that George Lucas is a shiat writer and couldn't figure out how to actually write a character sneaky enough to pull that deception off, so he retroactively decided that the Sith were essentially unknown for the sole purpose of handing the Jedi the requisite cultural idiot ball for missing the most in ...


I don't know, I can buy it.  How much actual knowledge does the general public really have about the force or the Jedi?  They don't necessarily know about some big organized group called the Sith, because to them, force-users are force-users.  A thousand years after the last Sith war, about all they'd know is that some Jedi can use their power to try and be conquering dickbags.  People simply wouldn't know about a lot of this stuff.
 
2014-07-28 08:27:01 AM  

chuggernaught: They didn't vanish from memory.  They had controlled the galaxy (or at least half), and destroyed planets before.


Video game continuity is not, strictly speaking, canon.  KOTOR and TOR were licensed with the intent of being a sort of optional setting thing, and are based off of the tabletop RPG, not movie continuity anyhow.

They had no influence on the prequels in plot terms (well, especially not TOR since the MMO came out later), so sadly we can't highlight Lucas being a terrible writer on those grounds.  Would be fun if we could, though, because that'd have made the stupid extra-strength for sure.

// And now, of course, Disney has taken the official position of "fark any EU setting stuff that we don't explicitly own or make money off of directly", which is actually pretty reasonable and can only improve the quality of the product.
// oblig: "Where's.  MY.  SHIP."
 
2014-07-28 08:28:05 AM  
Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

Looked like he was commanding at least a fighter squadron (probably his own guys) while he was at the Death Star. More likely he had to defer to the actual commander of that particular installation.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a   physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a   fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

One comment, Motti just made ONE out of line comment and got biatch choked.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emper
or.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Vader at least kept the military rank he held as a Jedi when he marched the 501st into the Jedi temple at the end of Revenge of the Sith. He was in command of a fleet at the beginning of a New Hope. Hell, he commanded a fleet during all the original trilogy.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).

Oh, he most decidedly did torture young Leia. Listen to or read the radio drama transcripts and you will see just how far that torture session went.
 
2014-07-28 08:39:29 AM  

Mulchpuppy: doglover: Therion: All the fault of the guy who decided the title needn't include 'of Mars'

I really hope that guy's a janitor now.

The guy who decided the title didn't need to include "of Mars" was the same guy who wrote and directed the movie.  He also directed "Finding Nemo" and "Wall-E."

So no, not a janitor.


Removing 'Of Mars' is not why the flick bombed, despite what Fark fanbois think. Nor was it not properly marketed. It was over-marketed. For about 4 months before the POS came out, we were flooded non-stop with commercials about it. And those commercials killed the movie. It looked retarded. He was jumping around multiple stories in slow mo and the whole setting felt like the final fight in Episode 2. Nobody with an IQ wanted to see the shiatty movie. It sucked and so do you (those who defend it).
 
2014-07-28 08:44:50 AM  

Burra: Given he was a (decorated?) General or somesuch throughout the Clone Wars in charge of fleets at some points, why wouldn't he be trusted with a Star Destroyer? I guess it depends on how many Imperials knew he was Anakin Skywalker, and whether they would willingly follow an ex-Republic hero or complete unknown. Don't ask me why anyone thought giving Jedi military command was a good idea in the first place.


FWIW: My impression in ESB was that Vader *WAS* in charge of the Imperial Fleet searching for the
Rebels.  He just used the Executor as his command ship.

And, I'm sure pretty much all of the Imperials had no idea that Vader was really Anakin, though it was
probably well known that he was an ex-Jedi.
 
2014-07-28 08:46:08 AM  

Alphax: zamboni: I guess I always wondered about this..
Towards the end of a new hope they were waiting for the moon in orbit around Yavin to appear so they could attack the rebel base... why didn't they just shoot Yavin? I mean, if only they had some device with a demonstrated ability to destroy a planet they might have been able to make that happen.

That would be admitting that the Rebels had any chance of winning.


They blew up a planet on the off-chance it might make someone tell them where the rebels were. I think they were already past the point of "blowing up a planet is a last resort that means we're afraid of losing" and well into "we detect the slightest hint of resistance from anyone even remotely associated with your planet and we'll blow the whole thing up as an example to everyone else" territory.
 
2014-07-28 08:47:22 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emperor.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).


I'm sorry about your autism. How many hours a day do you spend editing wikipedia.
 
2014-07-28 09:00:04 AM  

Delta1212: Alphax: zamboni: I guess I always wondered about this..
Towards the end of a new hope they were waiting for the moon in orbit around Yavin to appear so they could attack the rebel base... why didn't they just shoot Yavin? I mean, if only they had some device with a demonstrated ability to destroy a planet they might have been able to make that happen.

That would be admitting that the Rebels had any chance of winning.

They blew up a planet on the off-chance it might make someone tell them where the rebels were. I think they were already past the point of "blowing up a planet is a last resort that means we're afraid of losing" and well into "we detect the slightest hint of resistance from anyone even remotely associated with your planet and we'll blow the whole thing up as an example to everyone else" territory.


They were arrogant enough to think they had no time pressures.
 
2014-07-28 09:04:25 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Removing 'Of Mars' is not why the flick bombed, despite what Fark fanbois think. Nor was it not properly marketed. It was over-marketed. For about 4 months before the POS came out, we were flooded non-stop with commercials about it. And those commercials killed the movie. It looked retarded. He was jumping around multiple stories in slow mo and the whole setting felt like the final fight in Episode 2. Nobody with an IQ wanted to see the shiatty movie. It sucked and so do you (those who defend it).


Never saw it, personally.  I was just defending the director.  Not all animation guys get to be Brad Bird.
 
2014-07-28 09:05:18 AM  

llort dam eht: Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn't want to kill Luke because he already knows they're family... it actually puts a different spin on Luke getting 'lucky enough to land the shot before Vader got him' in the first movie, and the fact that he's apparently keeping the relationship secret from everyone but the emperor.

// He also very notably  didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did  not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).

I'm sorry about your autism. How many hours a day do you spend editing wikipedia.


Probably less than the amount of time you'll spend bragging to your real doll about how you "totes dissed some geek" on fark.com...
 
2014-07-28 09:22:03 AM  

DeadPuppySociety: llort dam eht:
I'm sorry about your autism. How many hours a day do you spend editing wikipedia.

Probably less than the amount of time you'll spend bragging to your real doll about how you "totes dissed some geek" on fark.com...



 sickburn.jpg
 
2014-07-28 09:40:24 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Vader wasn't ever really IN charge in A New Hope.  He was essentially a knight of the realm rank-wise, he had the power required to play lackey for the emperor, but his position was more symbolic than actually letting him order people around.

I mean, Tarkin's staff was allowed to insult and mock the guy to the point of provoking a  physical brawl before the commanding officer told them to stand down.  The only way he was allowed to contribute to the defense of the station was as a  fighter pilot, and that was only by leveraging his position as a quasi-noble to its hilt.

Vader's position and real power was obviously very limited to basically being a solo FBI agent trying to track some criminals through territory where his jurisdiction was often dodgy in ways that hindered him to the point of frustration.  "Lord" was clearly a social rank, not a military rank, and he was obviously supposed to essentially represent the SS detective hunting jews in the big-ass Nazi allegory that is the Empire.

In the second movie, he's obviously made his case that the empire needs to go all PATRIOT act and shuffle his own FBI-equivalent agency in with the military under a single bigass DHS-like agency, probably specifically by pointing out how the prisoners getting away and so on likely wouldn't have happened had he had the actual authority to move the pieces around (he wasn't even informed of a person of interest in his investigation escaping confinement until he was jumped by a Jedi dressed as a hobo in a hallway, for chrissakes).

And given that authority, he turns out to be really,  really good at using it.  Following Vader's rise to real command, he arrests the rebel heroes, finds their base, puts it under blockade without them noticing until the ships are already in position, and blows the vast majority of them the fark up  without vaporizing an entire planet of civilians this time.  And when you realize exactly  how good he is at this kind of stuff, and realize that he  doesn' ...


3.bp.blogspot.com

But seriously though, really good points. I may want to subscribe to your newsletter as well.
 
2014-07-28 09:52:09 AM  

Jim_Callahan: // He also very notably didn't torture Leia, opting instead to dope her up with truth serum equivalent, and also did not make the decision to blow up Alderaan (that being Tarkin).


I'd have slipped her a mickey as well...

i291.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-28 09:53:22 AM  

MechaPyx: Vader's "rise to power" between New Hope and Empire is a non-story.


As a side note, if you want a non-story between IV and V, read Timothy Zahn's "Scoundrels".

Not that I'm calling it a good book.  I'm calling it a blank void that serves no purpose other than to serve a "he shot first" joke early on, and then be a "con" story without any of the fun of being a con, and it ends with Han being in the exact same place he was at the beginning of the book.

Vader's rise to power could at least be interesting.  "Scoundrels" was as much a non-story as me telling you what I had for breakfast.
 
2014-07-28 10:12:46 AM  
I love these threads.

I have seen the Star Wars films and enjoyed them, but you guys really take it to another level.
 
2014-07-28 10:18:05 AM  

SamFlagg: GUYS!

We need this story so that we don't remember the period between ANH and ESB that is 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' they may have forgotten to wipe it out with the canon erasing gun.


I love that they had to put "No, this is not cannon" in the opening crawl of the weekend's Phineas & Ferb episode.
 
2014-07-28 10:18:54 AM  

spamdog: This is secretly Vader himself, defending his legacy.


After letting that Lucas asshole mess up your story after you told it to him, I'd be trying to fix my legacy as well.
 
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