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(AZCentral)   With all the things kids have to learn today in order to be competitive in a global economy, why are schools still teaching cursive writing?   (azcentral.com ) divider line 324
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4456 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2014 at 8:21 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-27 07:12:48 PM  
Because cursing is a gosh-darned important part of communication.
 
2014-07-27 07:49:44 PM  
I'm going to give you the same answer I gave my coworkers when I was teaching in Phoenix when they didn't want to teach D'Nealian writing. Those kids can produce the most beautiful graffiti. It's art. Truly.

All you need to do is apply some freaking pressure. Many of my former students have beautiful cursive writing.
 
2014-07-27 08:04:57 PM  
It's probably not as important to be able to write cursive as it is to be able to read it.
 
2014-07-27 08:18:34 PM  
Because despite what you think ITmitter, some of the old school skills are nice.
 
2014-07-27 08:23:41 PM  
You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence
 
2014-07-27 08:25:52 PM  
The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.
 
2014-07-27 08:26:13 PM  
At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.
 
2014-07-27 08:27:43 PM  
Trolly McTroll. The Cursivists go apoplectic over this.
 
2014-07-27 08:28:25 PM  
FTFA Another student, Angel Guerra, said he thinks cursive is important because "there is a lot more writing in life than there is typing."

If this student truly believes this than the education system in Arizona has bigger problems than just teaching outdated courses.
 
2014-07-27 08:29:48 PM  
Oh look... it's this thread again
 
2014-07-27 08:29:56 PM  
Being able to read manuscripts makes children (and they adults they become) capable of understanding complicated political manuscripts that are a threat to my future dictatorship. I'm glad we're dumbing down education.
 
2014-07-27 08:30:02 PM  
One must know how to signature.
 
2014-07-27 08:30:34 PM  
I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.
 
2014-07-27 08:30:42 PM  
*the, not they.
 
2014-07-27 08:30:50 PM  

ChrisDe: At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.


Your signature doesn't need to be in cursive. It just has to be something that will be recognized as your own mark. You could sign all your checks with a drawing of a penis if you wanted to.
 
2014-07-27 08:30:53 PM  
You see, when you lift your quill pen from the paper between letters in words it leaves blots.
 
2014-07-27 08:31:49 PM  
FTA:
"The standards require that students master keyboarding and a form of handwriting - that can be print or cursive, said Kathryn Hrabluk, associate superintendent for the Arizona Department of Education. "

It should be all or nothing.  Only teaching some will set up a situation in the future where the cursive haves will reign over the have nots.
 
2014-07-27 08:31:52 PM  
The last time I used cursive was in 6th grade, and that was only because the teacher required it. He would not accept homework in any other form.

I would type up and edit my book reports in a word processor in the computer (Apple IIe), and then when finalized, would print it out and transcribe it to paper, in cursive.

In 5th grade, the teacher was 22yo and right out of college, and he didn't even write in cursive himself.
 
2014-07-27 08:32:33 PM  

skaya: You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence


9/10

My head almost exploded.
 
2014-07-27 08:32:48 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


We called that Typing Class and it was mainly for girls and the kind of guys who weren't interested in taking a shop class (if you know what I mean).


FTA :   "It's hard because you have to keep the pen down and connect the letters," said Luis Carlos Miranda

Here's the thing Luis.  You have to be able to write in order to consult with an attorney.
 
2014-07-27 08:32:56 PM  

jst3p: I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.


1 lprint "Haha. Cursive is scripting."

Goto 1
 
2014-07-27 08:34:51 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.
 
2014-07-27 08:34:54 PM  

TomD9938: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

We called that Typing Class and it was mainly for girls and the kind of guys who weren't interested in taking a shop class (if you know what I mean).


FTA :   "It's hard because you have to keep the pen down and connect the letters," said Luis Carlos Miranda

Here's the thing Luis.  You have to be able to write in order to consult with an attorney.


If told then oh_snap
 
2014-07-27 08:35:11 PM  
What is the difference between a signature and cursive.  Isn't cursive a gateway drug to an original personal signature?  If cursive isn't taught then where do signatures come from?

\I know this sounds like a troll, but it really isn't.
 
2014-07-27 08:39:23 PM  

Wangiss: Being able to read manuscripts makes children (and they adults they become) capable of understanding complicated political manuscripts that are a threat to my future dictatorship. I'm glad we're dumbing down education.


Because no one has ever transcribed old manuscripts to print.

/reading script is still important for archaeologists
 
2014-07-27 08:40:41 PM  

skaya: You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence


Thats kind of like saying that dancing is a good measure of intelligence. Some people have the moves and some people do not.
 
2014-07-27 08:40:52 PM  
Well, if you suspect that any child will have cause to read an original document from before the turn of the millennium, chances are they'll have to be able to at least decipher cursive writing.  The easiest way to do this is to teach children how to write in cursive so they can learn the letters and the various styles. Of course you could just devote that half hour a day or week to more test taking skills memorization and that is your choice.
 
2014-07-27 08:41:10 PM  
TomD9938
We called that Typing Class and it was mainly for girls and the kind of guys who weren't interested in taking a shop class (if you know what I mean).


So typing is for mezza fanooks.

Learning to type isn't for real men then.
 
2014-07-27 08:42:56 PM  
Because it is important to be able to read what is written on the back of old family photographs.

/Amongst my grandmother's photos are notes written in Shorthand describing the location and subjects of the photos (she was a legal secretary) my mother kept saying she needed to translate those, unfortunately she passed away before doing so.
 
2014-07-27 08:43:26 PM  
I guess you can just prove who you are and sign contracts with blood, like Gattaca.
 
2014-07-27 08:43:35 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: skaya: You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence

9/10

My head almost exploded.


Mine too.
Perhaps, had it been posted in cursive it would have made sense.

teenage mutant ninja rapist: skaya: You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence

Thats kind of like saying that dancing is a good measure of intelligence. Some people have the moves and some people do not.


No you simpleton; dancing is a good way to size up a bed partner, and sadly, has nothing to do with intelligence.
 
2014-07-27 08:43:51 PM  
Institutional inertia is difficult to overcome.
 
2014-07-27 08:44:08 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Thats kind of like saying that dancing is a good measure of intelligence. Some people have the moves and some people do not.

Everyone has dance moves, you just have to find the right ones:
www.gifsoup.com
/Dang!
 
2014-07-27 08:44:42 PM  
I rather they teach them something useful, like how to operate a shovel.


/ doesn't have kids
// thinks that most are annoying
 
2014-07-27 08:45:42 PM  
"It is a sort of rite of passage. I think there is artistic value in cursive ... also knowing how to read communication in cursive is something we should be able to do."

Oh.  When I write, I write in cursive, and while it's not the best penmanship, it is legible for those who know how to read it.  I unfortunately live in a house full of printers, sloppy block style and they can't decipher my writing any more than I can their printing.  We have a communications gap. Grocery lists are the worst, ick. Stepkid has taken to drawing hieroglyphics to what he wants brought home as I cannot read his bad, bad printing.

/thinks that cursive should continue to be taught and sloppy printers should have to take a course in at least how to read it.
//I still write letters and cards to friends and family, I would like for them to know who it's from
///refuses to print. I like the flow of cursive, but like email and texting better :)
 
2014-07-27 08:46:46 PM  
Couldn't agree more. I use a scribbled mess of cursive for my signature and thats it. Haven't use for anything since i stopped learning it in school. Of course i suppose preserving a lost art is partially the reason. I mean, look at how the Declaration of Independence was written, or the constitution. That was a norm for educated people who could even write back then. No one writes like that anymore, so seeing it as a lost art makes sense. Still, I ain't got use for it. In my line of work as long as i can write enough to get my point across and it's legible then I'm good.
 
2014-07-27 08:47:11 PM  
Why bother to learn to tell time on a clock with hands. Why do Navy officers have to learn to navigate with a sextant?
Its just useful to have certain skills.
I was never taught cursive. My penmanship was and is too ugly.
But I picked it up an I can read it and write it.
Cursive is not Mandarin Chinese. Its not difficult to master, and good penmanship reflects well on the writer as does proper grammar and punctuation.
Good communication skills go a long way toward making a good impression.
 
2014-07-27 08:47:46 PM  

rogue49: I guess you can just prove who you are and sign contracts with blood, like Gattaca.


The legal definition of a signature is "any mark made with the intent to authenticate a document", so cursive is not required for a "signature". IIRC, the court case that decided the legal definition involve tobacco spit.
 
2014-07-27 08:47:58 PM  

Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.


Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.
 
2014-07-27 08:48:01 PM  
A mix of cursive and print letters is the sign of educated, efficient handwriting. Meanwhile, I know people born just a few years after me who write their (print) letters like crooked tombstones in a graveyard.

Here is an example of the sort of cursive/print hybrid:
4.bp.blogspot.com
That is not the best handwriting, but you can tell they learned cursive and still link frequent letter pairs.
 
2014-07-27 08:48:06 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: skaya: You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence

Thats kind of like saying that dancing is a good measure of intelligence. Some people have the moves and some people do not.


If I had poor cursive handwriting, that would correlate to my intelligence level being below average?

Chicken scratcher here.
 
2014-07-27 08:48:16 PM  
Kids should be taught to write in Comic Sans.
 
2014-07-27 08:48:30 PM  

ChrisDe: At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.


Signatures on a check look like a seizured chicken anyway,  and there isn't anything stopping anyone from printing their name instead of signing anything that would need signing.  Maybe back in olden times it was a bit of a security thing but it's not these days,  it doesn't matter anymore.
 
2014-07-27 08:48:31 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


This.

odinsposse: ChrisDe: At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.

Your signature doesn't need to be in cursive. It just has to be something that will be recognized as your own mark. You could sign all your checks with a drawing of a penis if you wanted to.


And that.

My cursive writing sucks. My handwriting in general sucks. But when I have to sign something at work, it's easy to tell what my signature is. As long as you have some sort of distinctive markings in your signature, you're probably going to be alright.
 
2014-07-27 08:50:10 PM  

DeathRaySanta: Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.

Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.


Actually, it is Calculus. Newtonian mechanics to be specific.
 
2014-07-27 08:50:38 PM  
I also think that whether you continue to use it or not, cursive teaches you a neater hand.

/YMMV
 
2014-07-27 08:51:13 PM  
For writing checks, silly.
 
2014-07-27 08:51:47 PM  

dstrick44: Why bother to learn to tell time on a clock with hands. Why do Navy officers have to learn to navigate with a sextant?
Its just useful to have certain skills.
I was never taught cursive. My penmanship was and is too ugly.
But I picked it up an I can read it and write it.
Cursive is not Mandarin Chinese. Its not difficult to master, and good penmanship reflects well on the writer as does proper grammar and punctuation.
Good communication skills go a long way toward making a good impression.


I loved your post :) and thank you for it.
 
2014-07-27 08:52:04 PM  

Enemabag Jones: What is the difference between a signature and cursive.  Isn't cursive a gateway drug to an original personal signature?  If cursive isn't taught then where do signatures come from?

\I know this sounds like a troll, but it really isn't.


From now on, my signature is my name in military block lettering. Just for you.
 
2014-07-27 08:53:04 PM  

Enemabag Jones: TomD9938
We called that Typing Class and it was mainly for girls and the kind of guys who weren't interested in taking a shop class (if you know what I mean).

So typing is for mezza fanooks.

Learning to type isn't for real men then.


Not sure if those are statements or questions exactly.

I will say that in the early / mid eighties, most guys would say there was no good reason to take a typing class (save for journo - wannabees).  Of course none of us imagined the time we'd ultimately put in over a keyboard.

As an aside, my dad (born 1936) was a hard drinking high school drop out who made his living with his hands as an auto mechanic and later as a general contractor.

As rough as his origins were and as limited as his education, he had positively beautiful hand writing.
 
2014-07-27 08:53:13 PM  

Harry_Seldon: DeathRaySanta: Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.

Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.

Actually, it is Calculus. Newtonian mechanics to be specific.


faculty.washington.edu
 
2014-07-27 08:53:36 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


I agree that typing was the most important skill I learned in school. It got me my first job, which eventually led to working and living in Europe for more than 25 years, including a stint as personal secretary to a president. I got to go places I never even dreamed about, like the dinner for Nobel prize winners hosted by the King and Queen of Swedeniana. And after I went to those places, I was able to write nice thank you notes, in the flowing cursive handwriting hammered into me (almost literally, on my knuckles, with a ruler) by my third-grade teacher.

Even if cursive writing won't be need in the brave new world, I'd be sorry if they would stop teaching it.
 
2014-07-27 08:53:54 PM  
My son is going in to his Sophomore year of HS, and he says they don't teach it, because no one uses it. I beg to differ, but then again, I'm old-ish.
 
2014-07-27 08:54:36 PM  
Ehcks,
Enemabag Jones: What is the difference between a signature and cursive. Isn't cursive a gateway drug to an original personal signature? If cursive isn't taught then where do signatures come from?
\I know this sounds like a troll, but it really isn't.
From now on, my signature is my name in military block lettering. Just for you.


I really like that.
 
2014-07-27 08:55:22 PM  

Tom_Slick: Because it is important to be able to read what is written on the back of old family photographs.

/Amongst my grandmother's photos are notes written in Shorthand describing the location and subjects of the photos (she was a legal secretary) my mother kept saying she needed to translate those, unfortunately she passed away before doing so.


I hope you realize that your mother and grandmother weren't the only two people in the world that can/could read shorthand.
Take them to a retirement home, and I'm sure some nice old secretary could help you out.
 
2014-07-27 08:55:55 PM  
japanesethegame.com
 
2014-07-27 08:56:32 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


I grew up in the days when typing was taught in school as an elective.  I never took any formal course in typing, yet I went into the IT profession as a programmer.


/Can type very well for being self-taught
//Am not a hunt and peckerer
 
2014-07-27 08:57:56 PM  
Cursive.... that's about as useful as teaching them buggy whip manufacturing.
 
2014-07-27 08:58:47 PM  
I thought they had already dropped cursive in many areas.
I'm an engineer. My writing is so bad even I can't read it sometimes. Years of teachers trying to improve it didn't work. I was doomed from the start.
 
2014-07-27 08:59:28 PM  

ChrisDe: At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.


Not really. If Bubba can make his mark in front of a couple witnesses then that's legally binding.
 
2014-07-27 08:59:39 PM  

Oldiron_79: Cursive.... that's about as useful as teaching them buggy whip manufacturing.


Unless they're Amish.
 
2014-07-27 08:59:47 PM  
Incidentally, apart from my signature (which has degenerated to a barely modulated squiggle), I generally handwrite in print letters, for which I am generally praised for readability. My cursive, by contrast, was barely legible if I really worked at it.

I actually practiced calligraphy a bit when I was a kid, but even then I tended to favor block-letter styles over cursive. Yes, blotting was a problem.

I do think it's appropriate to require school students to acquire some manner of handwriting skill - it's just that in an era of ballpoint pens, I don't see any point in it being cursive.
 
2014-07-27 09:00:03 PM  
TomD9938 ,
Not sure if those are statements or questions exactly.
I will say that in the early / mid eighties, most guys would say there was no good reason to take a typing class (save for journo - wannabees). Of course none of us imagined the time we'd ultimately put in over a keyboard.
As an aside, my dad (born 1936) was a hard drinking high school drop out who made his living with his hands as an auto mechanic and later as a general contractor.
As rough as his origins were and as limited as his education, he had positively beautiful hand writing.


I get it. I took a typing class just when the PC was coming of age, a few years behind you. And yeah, it had was probably a 4 to 5 females to one male in that room. If I was born a few years earlier I might have worked ten or fifteen years on a shop floor until those jobs dried up.

They were not proper gear heads, nor am I.
 
2014-07-27 09:00:41 PM  
Maybe we should start taxing the crap out of companies which offshore jobs and stop passing out thousands of H1B visas so our 7 year olds don't have to worry about competing in a global economy?
 
2014-07-27 09:00:48 PM  
Let's see:

Arguments for cursive: its pretty, easy, and backwards compatible.

Arguments against: its unnessesary and outdated.

Anything else?
 
2014-07-27 09:01:59 PM  

jst3p: I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.


Even Spencerian script?
 
2014-07-27 09:02:25 PM  
Oh, THIS article again.
 
2014-07-27 09:02:29 PM  
I don't care if you write with it, but you sure as fark better be able to read it.  Want a career in the medical field? (and yes that means you " DeVry University medical billing and coding specialists" You sure as hell better be able to read archived records, most of which are hand-written.
 
2014-07-27 09:02:38 PM  
Anyone can use cursive but it'll be great if they stop teaching it.  THAT way you'll be able to tell who had a private school education and who hadda settle for public school.

Middle Class' death by a thousand cuts.
 
2014-07-27 09:02:58 PM  
It is mildly useful for deciphering pre-typed writing (like old photos or historical records), and it's a useful enough skill to have for a well-rounded person.

If we're REALLY so pressed for time in the educational system, let's have a national standardized test and throw out all the state/regional/corporate ones. One test, lasting no more than 2 days of school at the beginning and one at the end of the year. Everything else gets tossed into a giant bonfire, including the administrators who need more tests to justify more specialized textbooks from the salesperson with a kickback incentive.
 
2014-07-27 09:04:25 PM  
Moore importantly why ain't they teaching sext texting.
 
2014-07-27 09:04:25 PM  

Wangiss: [japanesethegame.com image 850x729]


Cursive had it's day pre-computer. And while yours is exceptional (I can read it with no issues whatsoever, yes that's the definition of exceptional now) a) how many seconds did it take you to write that and b) do you usually want/need it for another purpose?

My cursive is non-existent anymore. I don't even fully sign my name, just my initials with a ~ at the end.
 
2014-07-27 09:05:38 PM  

ajgeek: it's


ITS, ITS!

/goddamnitsomuch
 
2014-07-27 09:05:49 PM  
So when someone hands you a handwritten in an important meeting you don't have to say, "Sorry, I don't read cursive".
 
2014-07-27 09:06:29 PM  

UsikFark: A mix of cursive and print letters is the sign of educated, efficient handwriting. Meanwhile, I know people born just a few years after me who write their (print) letters like crooked tombstones in a graveyard.

Here is an example of the sort of cursive/print hybrid:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x278]
That is not the best handwriting, but you can tell they learned cursive and still link frequent letter pairs.


And it works your brain in a way that typing on a keyboard doesn't. The physical gesture of writing out information lodges it in your brain, and parsing wiggly symbols exercises more of your brain than scanning Arial.

Like all apparently "boring" and "useless" topics, it might be helpful if it was taught in an interesting and practical way, for example as an art--from calligraphy to graffiti to creating ciphers. The history of letterforms is pretty interesting too.
 
2014-07-27 09:07:58 PM  
No Rachel Jeantel? Fark I am disappoint.
 
2014-07-27 09:09:05 PM  
Cursive should be outlawed.  It has not place in modern society.  Nobody writes it the same way and it's damn near impossible to read most people's cursive.  Communication needs to be sent as well asreceived, and cursive prevents the reception of said communication, it should not be used.

Yeah, yeah.  I get that it's supposedly beautiful.  I get that some can use cursive faster than printing.

But it's an impediment to communication and inefficient.  It has no place in modern communication and is a waste to teach.
 
2014-07-27 09:09:06 PM  
So they can read Grandpa's letters home from the war?
 
2014-07-27 09:10:14 PM  

TomD9938: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

We called that Typing Class and it was mainly for girls and the kind of guys who weren't interested in taking a shop class (if you know what I mean).


FTA :   "It's hard because you have to keep the pen down and connect the letters," said Luis Carlos Miranda

Here's the thing Luis.  You have to be able to write in order to consult with an attorney.


In my Junior year of HS, I enlisted in the Army.  A requirement for my MOS was a typing class. I lied and said I had it.  My schedule was already full of STEM courses so I canceled a half year of lunch period to get a typing class.  I have never used it since.  As a teletypewriter repairman, all I needed to know was how to hit two characters in alternation repeatedly since they are exact opposites in transmitted code and tests all the circuitry and most of the mechanics.  X-Y-X-Y-X-Y-X-Y.  The rest of the mechanics was tested by typing "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog's back."
 
2014-07-27 09:11:13 PM  
Should we teach cursive writing in public schools?  That depends on what your vision of a successful student is- a useful worker bee, trained for whatever skills the corporate world needs for present technology and in the immediate future, who are fungible commodities to be discarded when technological changes require new skills that they will demand in the newest editions of compliant worker bees possess off the shelf; or
young people with a broad basic education- one that includes the foundation of American civilization in history, economics, government, music and the arts, mathematics and the basic sciences.  An education that puts American civilization and culture into the global context through instruction comparing and contrasting the US with other cultures and civilizations and one that fosters critical thinking skills, learning at least one other language, how to work cooperatively with others.  Someone with the ability to be an informed and rational voter, with a solid intellectual, philosophical and esthetic basis to grow from who will out compete others in the global economy through flexibility and the capacity to adjust to a changing world.

Teaching cursive writing alone won't determine which course we take, but why we choose to teach it or not teach it, will.
 
2014-07-27 09:11:33 PM  

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: Let's see:

Arguments for cursive: its pretty, easy, and backwards compatible.

Arguments against: its unnessesary and outdated.

Anything else?

(James, Karin H. an Atwood, Thea P. (2009).The role of sensorimotor learning in the perception of letter-like forms: Tracking the causes of neural specialization for letters. Cognitive Neuropsychology.26 (1), 91-100

.), suggests that cursive can beneficial to cognitive development and the integration of movement control, cognition, and sensation.

Handwriting, in general, is good for neural development, but cursive may be more so because it requires more difficult visual recognition.  James, K.H. and Engelhardt, L. (2013). The effects of handwriting experience on functional brain development in pre-literate children.

Besides that, cursive has been found to be better for students with disabilities like dyslexia because the letters are easier to tell apart.
 
2014-07-27 09:11:52 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kLR_hIkCO9s# t =70

It might be helpful if you ever find yourself involved in a murder trial.
 
2014-07-27 09:11:57 PM  
Doctors should not be allowed to write in cursive. Their manuscript is difficult enough to read.
 
2014-07-27 09:12:40 PM  

Wangiss: [japanesethegame.com image 850x729]


fontmeme.com
fontmeme.com
fontmeme.com
fontmeme.com
 
2014-07-27 09:13:19 PM  

Harry_Seldon: DeathRaySanta: Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.

Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.

Actually, it is Calculus. Newtonian mechanics to be specific.


Ahhh. Ok. Well, perhaps that would explain why I kinda suck at baseball :)
 
2014-07-27 09:13:24 PM  
If you do not learn cursive you cannot read or write cursive.  Duh.
 
2014-07-27 09:13:26 PM  

badhatharry: So when someone hands you a handwritten in an important meeting you don't have to say, "Sorry, I don't read cursive".


That can be a big one.

ajgeek: Wangiss: [japanesethegame.com image 850x729]

Cursive had it's day pre-computer. And while yours is exceptional (I can read it with no issues whatsoever, yes that's the definition of exceptional now) a) how many seconds did it take you to write that and b) do you usually want/need it for another purpose?

My cursive is non-existent anymore. I don't even fully sign my name, just my initials with a ~ at the end.


I'm glad you could read it, though it's really just utilitarian--it's faster to write in cursive if you're used to it. I think being able to read and write at least the last 200 years of your own language should be part of the definition of literacy. a) It took maybe ten seconds; I wasn't timing it. b) No, I don't hand-write for any other purpose than taking notes. I like being able to take notes very quickly and legibly, so I learned how to write quick, legible cursive. It helped me get good grades in school and comes in handy when I want to remember facts and details spoken to me. I am a linguist by trade, and I love writing Japanese with a brush pen. I think preserving these abilities (especially backwards-compatibility) are important enough to justify the small marginal time investment.

But being able to write legibly and quickly is as valuable as speed reading, so if someone can't, I recommend they learn. It takes a few dedicated hours of practice and being comfortable with self-criticism.
 
2014-07-27 09:13:32 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Oh look... it's this thread again


You can post that on every fark thread.
 
2014-07-27 09:14:21 PM  
I've drawn more tiny penises than signed my name
 
2014-07-27 09:14:45 PM  

Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.  It has not place in modern society.  Nobody writes it the same way and it's damn near impossible to read most people's cursive.  Communication needs to be sent as well asreceived, and cursive prevents the reception of said communication, it should not be used.

Yeah, yeah.  I get that it's supposedly beautiful.  I get that some can use cursive faster than printing.

But it's an impediment to communication and inefficient.  It has no place in modern communication and is a waste to teach.


Ummmm...if they taught it to them properly, you should be able to read it. People still need to sign documents.

WelldeadLink: So they can read Grandpa's letters home from the war?


I had my great-great grandfather's letters from the Civil War. I donated them to a museum. He actually had beautifully clear handwriting. I gave a letter to my cousin that was from my our great-great-great grandmother to our great-grandmother (granddaughter of said greatx3). Anyway, that letter was impossible, though. It was written in French by someone whose first language was German and her handwriting wasn't as clear.
 
2014-07-27 09:15:37 PM  
How can any adult lack the skill to write in cursive?

I say this as someone who was told in the 1st grade that I had worse penmanship ever seen by the teacher.

It hasn't gotten much neater in 40 years.

I can apply myself and do it with precision when the occasion requires, though.  It's an old-fashioned method of writing that should not die through laziness.
 
2014-07-27 09:15:48 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: D'Nealian


ecmoRandomNumbers: I'm going to give you the same answer I gave my coworkers when I was teaching in Phoenix when they didn't want to teach D'Nealian writing. Those kids can produce the most beautiful graffiti. It's art. Truly.

All you need to do is apply some freaking pressure. Many of my former students have beautiful cursive writing.


D'Nealian is crap. Those kids will never, ever print properly now. Start with a good draftsman print and then move to cursive if someone feels it's really necessary. Skip the D'Nealian crap...

Guy was a narcissist too, from Wiki: D'Nealian was developed by Donald Thurber, who developed the system while teaching in a primary school and was first introduced in 1978. The name of the script comes from Donald's first name contracted with his middle name ("Neal").
 
2014-07-27 09:16:37 PM  
Ahhhh cursive... one of those things old people insist young people keep doing because it  is what they remember having to do in their youth. Why not teach them buggy-whip handling and horse hitching while we're at it.
 
2014-07-27 09:17:30 PM  
Simpsons did it?
s30.postimg.org
 
2014-07-27 09:17:42 PM  
Do they still make you write that paragraph in cursive for the SAT? I was convinced that's how they graded you. The bubbles are lies.
 
2014-07-27 09:18:01 PM  

mongbiohazard: Ahhhh cursive... one of those things old people insist young people keep doing because it  is what they remember having to do in their youth. Why not teach them buggy-whip handling and horse hitching while we're at it.


These are probably the same people who hate Common Core because math happens in lines and squares.
 
2014-07-27 09:18:50 PM  
The same reason racism cannot be eliminated in one generation.  In before the Morse code remorse crowd.
 
2014-07-27 09:19:40 PM  

Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.  It has not place in modern society.  Nobody writes it the same way and it's damn near impossible to read most people's cursive.  Communication needs to be sent as well asreceived, and cursive prevents the reception of said communication, it should not be used.

Yeah, yeah.  I get that it's supposedly beautiful.  I get that some can use cursive faster than printing.

But it's an impediment to communication and inefficient.  It has no place in modern communication and is a waste to teach.


Should analog clocks be outlawed?
 
2014-07-27 09:20:44 PM  

symptomoftheuniverse: Tom_Slick: Because it is important to be able to read what is written on the back of old family photographs.

/Amongst my grandmother's photos are notes written in Shorthand describing the location and subjects of the photos (she was a legal secretary) my mother kept saying she needed to translate those, unfortunately she passed away before doing so.

I hope you realize that your mother and grandmother weren't the only two people in the world that can/could read shorthand.
Take them to a retirement home, and I'm sure some nice old secretary could help you out.


I need to get that done, but I haven't.
 
2014-07-27 09:21:14 PM  
I can write cursive faster than I can write manuscript , and I can do both of these faster than I can type on an iPad or similar (though I'm fastest at typing on a real keyboard.). When I'm on rounds and I'm trying to do five things at once, it 's helpful to be able to quickly reduce the spoken word to written form.

So that 's why I think cursive is still important.
 
2014-07-27 09:21:56 PM  
On standardized tests, students are asked to copy in cursive the honor code statement.
 
2014-07-27 09:23:17 PM  

WelldeadLink: So they can read Grandpa's letters home from the war?


Dearest Mary,

After weeks of apprehension and anticipation, the chow hall has finally opened the long promised Pizza Hut.  The brass held a ribbon cutting ceremony and there was much joy and good cheer among the men.
 
2014-07-27 09:23:29 PM  
A well written love letter, in cursive, with a clear firm hand, is a great way to get laid. More effective than texting your junk.
Do you need any other reasons?
 
2014-07-27 09:23:55 PM  

bessyglass: On standardized tests, students are asked to copy in cursive the honor code statement.


7/10, knowing Farks love of standardized testing.
 
2014-07-27 09:25:15 PM  
I could see cursive moved to being taught only to art students someday.

We do most of our writing with computers now,  and our pens don't leave blobs of ink anymore so cursive is going the way of the do-do.

fc05.deviantart.net
 
2014-07-27 09:25:28 PM  

Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.


That explains the user name.
 
2014-07-27 09:26:33 PM  
Every stupid person I have ever met could not read or write cursive.
Every person I have met that was intelligent or educated wrote cursive.
My mentally ill brother prefers block printing.

Using cursive means you are educated and intelligent.
Using block printing means mental illness, stupidity or lack of education.
 
2014-07-27 09:27:05 PM  

Nilatir: ecmoRandomNumbers: D'Nealian

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'm going to give you the same answer I gave my coworkers when I was teaching in Phoenix when they didn't want to teach D'Nealian writing. Those kids can produce the most beautiful graffiti. It's art. Truly.

All you need to do is apply some freaking pressure. Many of my former students have beautiful cursive writing.

D'Nealian is crap. Those kids will never, ever print properly now. Start with a good draftsman print and then move to cursive if someone feels it's really necessary. Skip the D'Nealian crap...

Guy was a narcissist too, from Wiki: D'Nealian was developed by Donald Thurber, who developed the system while teaching in a primary school and was first introduced in 1978. The name of the script comes from Donald's first name contracted with his middle name ("Neal").


OK. Fine. I'd like to see you try to eradicate it after public schools have spent millions of dollars on it.
 
2014-07-27 09:27:12 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


I found both to be fairly useless. I only use cursive to sign my name (and that looks terrible) and I have always been a quicker, better typer with chicken-pecking rather than actual keyboarding.
 
2014-07-27 09:29:37 PM  

Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.  It has not place in modern society.  Nobody writes it the same way and it's damn near impossible to read most people's cursive.  Communication needs to be sent as well asreceived, and cursive prevents the reception of said communication, it should not be used.

Yeah, yeah.  I get that it's supposedly beautiful.  I get that some can use cursive faster than printing.

But it's an impediment to communication and inefficient.  It has no place in modern communication and is a waste to teach.


So, your argument is that,

because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

farm6.staticflickr.com
farm4.staticflickr.com

/yay, public schools!
 
2014-07-27 09:31:51 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-27 09:32:14 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


Cursive is not useless. It trains fine motor control skills that typing doesn't. It's not a matter of either/or but both are needed.
 
2014-07-27 09:34:05 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.  It has not place in modern society.  Nobody writes it the same way and it's damn near impossible to read most people's cursive.  Communication needs to be sent as well asreceived, and cursive prevents the reception of said communication, it should not be used.

Yeah, yeah.  I get that it's supposedly beautiful.  I get that some can use cursive faster than printing.

But it's an impediment to communication and inefficient.  It has no place in modern communication and is a waste to teach.

So, your argument is that,

because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 275x37]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 640x37]

/yay, public schools!


Apples and oranges,  one is used for nearly everything while the other is falling by the wayside because it's no longer needed.
 
2014-07-27 09:34:45 PM  
Teaching the fundamentals of cursive writing and reading it is worthwhile- for the neuro-developmental reasons mentioned as well as the "backwards compatibility" mentioned above.  It doesn't have to be a huge part of the curriculum and after the student had mastered the basics- move on.  Remember we are talking about grade school aged kids here, we have no farkin idea of which student will become the Ambassador to the Court of St. James,  who will become a tech firm CEO and who will become a cook, or  plumber etc.  It's important to expose kids to all manner of things so they can discover what their interests and strengths are, what their weaknesses are and so they have some appreciation for others who do what they can't or don't want to do.  I had to take cursive handwriting as well as art and I sucked at both (I had no talent despite the fact that my grandmother had beautiful penmanship and some of her work was used to illustrate Palmer Method Penmanship books.) But I can read cursive handwriting, even some of the more elaborate old styles and I appreciate art by those who have the talent and the drive I lacked.  We tend to discount craftsmanship in a lot of things when we focus on the false notion that only college and technology based careers are what will be globally competitive.
 
2014-07-27 09:35:47 PM  

brownribbon: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

I found both to be fairly useless. I only use cursive to sign my name (and that looks terrible) and I have always been a quicker, better typer with chicken-pecking rather than actual keyboarding.


Fun story: I would hunt-and-peck while typing until I discovered Fark my Freshman year of college. I'd get so riled up by flamewars that I started angrily attacking the keyboard with both hands.
 
2014-07-27 09:36:21 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Using block printing means mental illness, stupidity or lack of education.


Yeah, obviously military training and experience, which requires block printing negates my degree and 1280 SATs.

/ I was brilliant until I started printing
 
2014-07-27 09:36:41 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.


False assumption on #2.  Lots of people care about math.  Universities and jobs both require it.  Very few people care about cursive.  That's the difference.  Yes, the fact that no one cares about cursive and no one writes it anymore and is therefore useless is reason enough not to force anyone to learn it.  Interested parties can take it as an archaeology elective if they want to.
 
2014-07-27 09:37:19 PM  
Because we should be teaching children less. That will make them better.
/Really?
 
2014-07-27 09:39:13 PM  
Because teachers and school administrators are idiots.

Teach them to read it.  DO NOT teach them to write it.  It should NEVER be written again.
 
2014-07-27 09:39:27 PM  

lohphat: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

Cursive is not useless. It trains fine motor control skills that typing doesn't. It's not a matter of either/or but both are needed.


Teach kids to draw, then. Its a much cooler skill and can be marketable if they're good enough. You'd be teaching them to think about perspective and shiat too.
 
2014-07-27 09:40:15 PM  

UsikFark: A mix of cursive and print letters is the sign of educated, efficient lazy old people handwriting.


Seriously. It's just poor craftsmanship. If you've been educated, you'll produce a uniform document in the most legible hand possible. Oftentimes it's all caps block print for maximum legibility because resorting to handwriting in the age of computers means something is probably going to go wrong with the system before you're writing a note and it's got be absolutely clear what you mean.


Of course in your daily life, like a shopping list or something, go nuts. I make little knots of english and kanji and pictograms for myself that even I can't read sometimes.
 
2014-07-27 09:40:46 PM  
Cursive has been obsolete since we quit using quills and ink wells.
 
2014-07-27 09:43:07 PM  

Betep: Because we should be teaching children less an archaic skill that has no marketability in a job search. That will make them better.
/Really?


// Can you type 80 WPM?
/// Nope, but my penmanship is pretty sweet.
 
2014-07-27 09:43:32 PM  

Boo_Guy: ArcadianRefugee: Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.  It has not place in modern society.  Nobody writes it the same way and it's damn near impossible to read most people's cursive.  Communication needs to be sent as well asreceived, and cursive prevents the reception of said communication, it should not be used.

Yeah, yeah.  I get that it's supposedly beautiful.  I get that some can use cursive faster than printing.

But it's an impediment to communication and inefficient.  It has no place in modern communication and is a waste to teach.

So, your argument is that,

because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 275x37]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 640x37]

/yay, public schools!

Apples and oranges,  one is used for nearly everything while the other is falling by the wayside because it's no longer needed.


Apples and oranges. You are equating all of math-dom to a very specific subset of written communication (which, I know, I did). Point is, we have calculators and computers to do that for us. So why teach math in any depth? Just like we no longer really need to write things by hand, we really don't need to know how to multiply/divied/subtract/add, only when, and then we can ask our phones or Google to do it for us.
 
2014-07-27 09:43:36 PM  
I look at my kids and am truly disappointed with so many things about their education.

They whine about how hard school is on a regular basis... when they use computers, when they have printed booklets that they can write on, when all the notes are photocopies or purchased books.

I'm from the days that you were lucky if you got a manual/math book and when you did, you hoped tht it wasn't the one that was falling apart. Usually is was copying everything from a blackboard to lined paper, and you better be able to write fast enough before the teacher ran out of room and erase everything to start with the next part.

Then the substance of the courses, it's just sad... the kids are now in their near twenties and can't write worth crap... their spelling and grammar is horrible, but then again, it's the same for all their friends.

I hated my school days for such things as I've just stated, but looking at it through today's eyes, I realize now that it was a good thing to have suffered then.

So whining about cursive? Mother of God, it's like idiots are really trying their best to make "Idiocracy" be a reality.
 
2014-07-27 09:44:07 PM  
"Divide".
 
2014-07-27 09:44:47 PM  
I've been complemented on my handering more times than I can count. After steadfastly using block letters until seventh grade, I made the switch and haven't looked back.

Three years ago, I was marking up papers for one of my grad school professors. In red ink, I wrote--in cursive--my comments and remarks. Three undergrad juniors asked me what I had written because, as they said, "Dude, who writes in cursive?"

/Luckily, I didn't keep a bottle of bourbon in my desk
//Back then, anyway
 
2014-07-27 09:44:57 PM  
We're in the in-between time.  Not knowing how to read cursive is still an indicator that you're insufficiently educated.  Not knowing how to write cursive....Well, you can get away with it, but a person's handwriting is still very much suggestive of the extent of their intellectual development.  Even software engineers have to present on white boards in the conference rooms, so you'd better be able to at least PRINT like an adult and not a retarded child. Filling out an employment application in sloppy letters still indicates sloppy thinking, like it or not.

It will take time for all this to change.  A LONG time.
 
2014-07-27 09:45:14 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Every stupid person I have ever met could not read or write cursive.
Every person I have met that was intelligent or educated wrote in block printing cursive.
My mentally ill clearly more intelligent than I am brother prefers block printing.

Using cursive block printing means you are educated and intelligent.
Using block printing cursive means mental illness, stupidity or lack of education.


FTFY.

Seriously, it's 2014.  Nobody intelligent uses cursive any more, and hasn't since elementary school.  Only the severely mentally retarded have an irrational attachment to a writing style that lost its reason to exist with the invention of the typewriter and signifies nothing but mental illness with the current ubiquity of technology.
 
2014-07-27 09:45:15 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: lohphat: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

Cursive is not useless. It trains fine motor control skills that typing doesn't. It's not a matter of either/or but both are needed.

Teach kids to draw, then. Its a much cooler skill and can be marketable if they're good enough. You'd be teaching them to think about perspective and shiat too.


Again it's not either/or -- we learned all these skills in school. Why are you afraid of learning more than one thing?

Cursive is a constant-stream fine motor control skill, different from drawing.
 
2014-07-27 09:46:39 PM  

Oldiron_79: Cursive has been obsolete since we quit using quills and ink wells.


Exactly this.

Except that not even the hipsters still use cursive.
 
2014-07-27 09:47:06 PM  

DeathRaySanta: Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.

Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.


You haven't, not really. You observed the ball's movement then extrapolated the rest of the arc from there. Your brain is not a computer. It works in a very different manner.
 
2014-07-27 09:48:20 PM  

maram500: I've been complemented on my handering more times than I can count. After steadfastly using block letters until seventh grade, I made the switch and haven't looked back.

Three years ago, I was marking up papers for one of my grad school professors. In red ink, I wrote--in cursive--my comments and remarks. Three undergrad juniors asked me what I had written because, as they said, "Dude, who writes in cursive?"

/Luckily, I didn't keep a bottle of bourbon in my desk
//Back then, anyway


Have you been complemented on your spelling?
 
2014-07-27 09:48:22 PM  
My handwriting was so bad that I took computer classes starting from an early age... eventually that turned into a career.  I'm a lefty, so when I would write a page of cursive, my had would drag across the page, and I would get ink or pencil on it.  I was also very bad at spelling, so having a spell checker really helped, as I could focus on the content I was writing, and not worry about misspelling a word.  I remember doing reports in elementary school, and asking the teacher how many pages typed, and what spacing and text size that they wanted - because I was the only one in the class using a computer.

I can write well today, but I have to really take my time.  I do think it is something that needs to be taught in school, as a handwritten note (such as a Thank You note) can be an important way to make a good impression.  I also think that speed reading should be taught in schools, as well as how to shake someones hand.
 
2014-07-27 09:48:40 PM  

lohphat: Why are you afraid of learning more than one thing?


It's a matter of time  and priorities. Students are learning less. The job market requires more. Isn't it possible that the time used for cursive could be used for something more practical?
 
2014-07-27 09:48:40 PM  
Anyone over 30 can now write in a secret code to foil nosy children!

www.picgifs.com

/ used to have a phone app to write in cursive and I deleted it...
 
2014-07-27 09:48:52 PM  

lohphat: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

Cursive is not useless. It trains fine motor control skills that typing doesn't. It's not a matter of either/or but both are needed.


Know what else teaches fine motor skills?

/Halo 4 MUST be part of every second-grade curriculum!
 
2014-07-27 09:49:12 PM  

lohphat: Shakin_Haitian: lohphat: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

Cursive is not useless. It trains fine motor control skills that typing doesn't. It's not a matter of either/or but both are needed.

Teach kids to draw, then. Its a much cooler skill and can be marketable if they're good enough. You'd be teaching them to think about perspective and shiat too.

Again it's not either/or -- we learned all these skills in school. Why are you afraid of learning more than one thing?

Cursive is a constant-stream fine motor control skill, different from drawing.


There is a finite amount of time available in school.  Wasting it on an obsolete writing style is counterproductive and stupid.
 
2014-07-27 09:50:45 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Ehcks,
Enemabag Jones: What is the difference between a signature and cursive. Isn't cursive a gateway drug to an original personal signature? If cursive isn't taught then where do signatures come from?
\I know this sounds like a troll, but it really isn't.
From now on, my signature is my name in military block lettering. Just for you.

I really like that.


Excepting my check/CC receipt signing, all of my handwriting is military block lettering. if you saw my sorry cursive, you'd realize it's a HUGE increase in legibility.
 
2014-07-27 09:51:57 PM  
Jeez Louise!  130+ replies in a thread about handwriting.  Farking losers!  Check the main page listing and have a look at the blue boobies in the naked smurf thread, and then make plans to get out of your mothers' basements.
 
2014-07-27 09:52:29 PM  

Guilty_plea_bargain: maram500: I've been complemented on my handering more times than I can count. After steadfastly using block letters until seventh grade, I made the switch and haven't looked back.

Three years ago, I was marking up papers for one of my grad school professors. In red ink, I wrote--in cursive--my comments and remarks. Three undergrad juniors asked me what I had written because, as they said, "Dude, who writes in cursive?"

/Luckily, I didn't keep a bottle of bourbon in my desk
//Back then, anyway

Have you been complemented on your spelling?


Four first-place finishes in spelling bees.

But I'm using an on-screen keyboard on my tablet to comment on Fark, so that's my excuse.
 
2014-07-27 09:53:22 PM  
What? Is this writing by hand still being taught?

Nonsense!

Our little snowflakes should only gesture vaguely at a surface - it should be up to the user interface hardware to determine what is meant.

We must end this handwriting foolishness. Also, speaking. Communicating with air through variably tightened "vocal cords" is... well it's just primitive.  It should all be vague gestures and brain wave pattern deciphering. There is hardware for that. Goodness, if I had had to physically type or dictate this message, I don't know how I could think of looking in a virtual mirror.
 
2014-07-27 09:53:47 PM  

aerojockey: ArcadianRefugee: because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

False assumption on #2.  Lots of people care about math.  Universities and jobs both require it.  Very few people care about cursive.  That's the difference.  Yes, the fact that no one cares about cursive and no one writes it anymore and is therefore useless is reason enough not to force anyone to learn it.  Interested parties can take it as an archaeology elective if they want to.


False assumption. Millions of people in anglophone countries all around the world still write in cursive.
 
2014-07-27 09:54:39 PM  

DarkVader: Because teachers and school administrators are idiots.

Teach them to read it.  DO NOT teach them to write it.  It should NEVER be written again.


Behind this I could more likely get.
 
2014-07-27 09:55:22 PM  
For the same reason we don't use the metric system.For the same reason we still have pennies even though a nickel is worth what a penny used to be.For the same reason we still have dollar bills even though a dollar is worth about what a quarter used to be.Old people terrified of change. Even when change just makes sense.
 
2014-07-27 09:56:51 PM  

Wangiss: aerojockey: ArcadianRefugee: because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

False assumption on #2.  Lots of people care about math.  Universities and jobs both require it.  Very few people care about cursive.  That's the difference.  Yes, the fact that no one cares about cursive and no one writes it anymore and is therefore useless is reason enough not to force anyone to learn it.  Interested parties can take it as an archaeology elective if they want to.

False assumption. Millions of people in anglophone countries all around the world still write in cursive.


No they don't.  Not in real life.

It's used in school classes.  It's then rapidly discarded once a teacher is no longer demanding that obsolete writing style.
 
2014-07-27 09:59:47 PM  
In elementary school,  among required supplies was a nib pen. Never used them that I can recall.
Was taught cursive, but my handwriting became so bad it degenerated into block-letter cursive hybrid, so bad my dad made me take Saturday typing classes. Have never regretted that.
Years later, I kept a journal for a time, elected to use a fountain pen, and rediscovered my cursive skills. Doing so caused me to think and slow down, bringing more clarity of thought and expression to my notes.
We all know the worst results of hair-trigger keyboarding, so I stand on the side of teach-the-kids cursive, as it might be a rare chance they have to learn a communications skill that requires a little thought.
 
2014-07-27 10:00:10 PM  

ghare: For the same reason we don't use the metric system.For the same reason we still have pennies even though a nickel is worth what a penny used to be.For the same reason we still have dollar bills even though a dollar is worth about what a quarter used to be.Old people terrified of change. Even when change just makes sense.


I was SO looking forward to full conversion to the metric system when I was in elementary school.  It makes sense, unlike the garbage we're using now.

Ronald Reagan was the second worst president in this country's history.  Yes, that's only part of why, but it's not a small part.
 
2014-07-27 10:01:32 PM  

skaya: You should have sufficient mastery over your ability to write that it forms an accurate measure of your intelligence


And one of being a civilized person. Can you imagine the Constitution not being written in cursive?
 
2014-07-27 10:02:42 PM  
When the EMP bombs go off, you better know how to write.......
 
2014-07-27 10:03:19 PM  
They tried to teach me cursive when I was in elementary school. Didn't work. Still write in shaky tombstone print to this day.
 
2014-07-27 10:05:34 PM  

DeathRaySanta: Harry_Seldon: DeathRaySanta: Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.

Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.

Actually, it is Calculus. Newtonian mechanics to be specific.

Ahhh. Ok. Well, perhaps that would explain why I kinda suck at baseball :)


That's okay. Newton was known to be a a terrible ball player.
 
2014-07-27 10:06:33 PM  

Fireproof: I would hunt-and-peck while typing until I discovered Fark my Freshman year of college.


In 7th grade, all of us had to take Typing. It was 1989, there were IBM Selectrics, computers were not really considerd ready for prime time yet. I didn't learn much from the class because the teacher was pretty terrible. I didn't really learn to type well until several years later, when I wrote a novel on my dad's SE/30. Practice, practice, practice every day = eventual 70 wpm.

I also taught myself how to write in italics, blackletter, and Fëanorian Tengwar. None of these are really that useful. Kind of fun though....
crow202.org
crow202.org
 
2014-07-27 10:08:33 PM  
Following the logic of the headline, schools should have classes on typing with 2 thumbs on a cell phone.

/while driving and drinking a coffee
 
2014-07-27 10:09:22 PM  

Fireproof: brownribbon: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

I found both to be fairly useless. I only use cursive to sign my name (and that looks terrible) and I have always been a quicker, better typer with chicken-pecking rather than actual keyboarding.

Fun story: I would hunt-and-peck while typing until I discovered Fark my Freshman year of college. I'd get so riled up by flamewars that I started angrily attacking the keyboard with both hands.


My method of chicken-pecking has always utilized both hands. I just don't use the "formal" method of typing I was taught. Almost saw the principal once because I questioned why we were taking typing classes.
 
2014-07-27 10:12:21 PM  
earlyamericanists.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-27 10:12:24 PM  
news.ucdavis.edu
See what sort of stuff you get from people who write in cursive.
And make 'em doing it in needlepoint so they won't complain about the actual writing part.
www.fontscape.com
 
2014-07-27 10:12:56 PM  
www.senatorhill.com

Yeah, we should be able to read the original, not just trust the "translation" into print.
 
2014-07-27 10:13:45 PM  

wademh: [news.ucdavis.edu image 518x287]
See what sort of stuff you get from people who write in cursive.
And make 'em doing it in needlepoint so they won't complain about the actual writing part.
[www.fontscape.com image 432x288]


DAMN YOU...by just a few seconds
 
2014-07-27 10:14:21 PM  
HexMadroom,
Excepting my check/CC receipt signing, all of my handwriting is military block lettering. if you saw my sorry cursive, you'd realize it's a HUGE increase in legibility.


That was where I was going, the signature aspect. Right now the persons signature seems to be default mechanism for contracts, although I am not an internet lawyer and suspect that anyone that claims to be a lawyer on the internet is really a dog.

I am aware that people can put an 'X' if they cannot read/write. This is more of an somewhat rare exception. However is a block printing of your name a signature for legal purposes? Can people learn to write their name is ancient Egyptian or Mayan and define this as their signature? Is block lettering even a unique mark for signing a mortage or bank loan?

An interesting boing boing test on credit card signatures:
http://boingboing.net/2005/06/03/nobody-cares-what-yo.html
 
2014-07-27 10:15:11 PM  
Small muscle control and concentration are probably the only defenses left for teaching it.  It shouldn't be a major part of the curriculum but you should still show them how rudimentary plumbing used to work before putting them on a keyboard.
 
2014-07-27 10:16:09 PM  
I gave up cursive and lower case when I hit high school.
 
2014-07-27 10:17:34 PM  
www.zodiackiller.com
 
2014-07-27 10:17:53 PM  
My sister wrights so beautifully, my mother was always proud. I, on the other hand, wrote so badly that even I could not read it. Soon my signature is going to flat line----------------.

My son's was so bad we used to scan his homework and print it. The teacher asked me to have him print his work. After a few days she said to have him use the computer.
 
2014-07-27 10:18:25 PM  

DarkVader: Wangiss: aerojockey: ArcadianRefugee: because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

False assumption on #2.  Lots of people care about math.  Universities and jobs both require it.  Very few people care about cursive.  That's the difference.  Yes, the fact that no one cares about cursive and no one writes it anymore and is therefore useless is reason enough not to force anyone to learn it.  Interested parties can take it as an archaeology elective if they want to.

False assumption. Millions of people in anglophone countries all around the world still write in cursive.

No they don't.  Not in real life.

It's used in school classes.  It's then rapidly discarded once a teacher is no longer demanding that obsolete writing style.


37 of adults do. It's a handy way to differentiate yourselves from children in this not-real life we cursive writers inhabit.
 
2014-07-27 10:18:35 PM  

unyon: It's probably not as important to be able to write cursive as it is to be able to read it.


^^This.^^

You'll encounter it and know how to read it but these days it doesn't matter if you can produce it or not except in a few specialized areas.  Most people simply don't need to write that much other than on a computer.

I've got 6 figures worth of posts (and few are one-liners) out there on the web--but my cursive has atrophied from lack of use to the point that a couple of years ago I decided to abandon it.  I doubt I write anything beyond a name/number by hand even once a month.
 
2014-07-27 10:18:50 PM  

violentsalvation: I gave up cursive and lower case when I hit high school.


So you just write in uppercase manuscript or type everything?
 
2014-07-27 10:19:03 PM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


Shortly after I graduated high school my district decided that teaching keyboarding wasn't important.  WTF.  I mean, this was before the rise of using your thumbs to type on your phone, so it wasn't even like there was a competing new way to type they were adopting.

Of course, it was  a fairly decent suburban school, so maybe they just thought you'd have a secretary taking dictation?
 
2014-07-27 10:19:05 PM  

Wangiss: DarkVader: Wangiss: aerojockey: ArcadianRefugee: because people don't seem to care about cursive, and so don't use it, and thus can't read it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

Great logic. Like, since our math scores are falling in the global sense, because people don't seem to care about it, and thus can't understand it, we should stop trying to teach it to them, thus furthering the cycle.

False assumption on #2.  Lots of people care about math.  Universities and jobs both require it.  Very few people care about cursive.  That's the difference.  Yes, the fact that no one cares about cursive and no one writes it anymore and is therefore useless is reason enough not to force anyone to learn it.  Interested parties can take it as an archaeology elective if they want to.

False assumption. Millions of people in anglophone countries all around the world still write in cursive.

No they don't.  Not in real life.

It's used in school classes.  It's then rapidly discarded once a teacher is no longer demanding that obsolete writing style.

37 of adults do. It's a handy way to differentiate yourselves from children in this not-real life we cursive writers inhabit.


LOL 37% of course.
 
2014-07-27 10:19:34 PM  

gunsmack: Betep: Because we should be teaching children less an archaic skill that has no marketability in a job search. That will make them better.
/Really?

// Can you type 80 WPM?
/// Nope, but my penmanship is pretty sweet.


I just wrote notes to Housekeeping, Maintenance and Audit.
I also left a handwritten note that we need more ink for the printers and pens.
/Archaic?
 
2014-07-27 10:19:55 PM  
Checks?  LOL
 
2014-07-27 10:22:44 PM  
What's the problem with teaching cursive?
 
2014-07-27 10:23:23 PM  

toejam: [www.zodiackiller.com image 640x895]



That is the worst word jumble!
 
2014-07-27 10:23:55 PM  
The argument is not whether cursive is useful at all so much as how useful it is considering the time spent on it and not on something else.

I haven't had to write more than my name in cursive since middle school, including throughout an Ivy league education and a Ph.D., so it clearly is no longer essential for even many "learned" lifestyles.  The ability to read cursive has come in more handy, but an adult with any sense of pattern recognition should be able to pick it up practically by osmosis.  And sure it teaches fine motor skills, but so do a number of things.  Learning it sure as heck didn't improve my nor many of my schoolmates handwriting in the long run.

Handwriting and critical thinking skills have no correlation I've personally ever observed.  Complete shotgun pattern.
 
2014-07-27 10:25:17 PM  
My 5yo niece saw me writing in cursive and thought I had a magic pen. My brother printed out some work sheets from the internet and she now practices cursive letters.
 
2014-07-27 10:25:40 PM  

Wangiss: But being able to write legibly and quickly is as valuable as speed reading, so if someone can't, I recommend they learn. It takes a few dedicated hours of practice and being comfortable with self-criticism.


I have massive difficulty not "hearing" what I write/read. It takes me weeks to read a book. That said, I remember a *lot* more of it than my wife (who can speed read, it would seem) and, in general, have better retention skill than most folk. I ended up dumping cursive almost entirely because my writing is mostly in mathematical formula. When I write, it's required to be in formal paper format nowadays. Multiple edits are also necessary, so handwriting would be nothing short of a waste of a LOT of time.

In the end, I'm generally in accord; most folk don't need cursive writing skills anymore, especially when things such as grammar, spelling, mathematics, critical thinking et. al. are ALSO falling by the wayside. A priority shift is in order. Let's get the kids reading a few cursive books etc, but let the writing go elective.

/I tried reading the U.S. Declaration of Independence. It's not trivial.
 
2014-07-27 10:26:27 PM  

daffy: My sister wrights so beautifully, my mother was always proud. I, on the other hand, wrote so badly that even I could not read it. Soon my signature is going to flat line----------------.

My son's was so bad we used to scan his homework and print it. The teacher asked me to have him print his work. After a few days she said to have him use the computer.


What does your sister wright? And what's that got to do with cursive writing?
Sorry for the spelling lame but, people judge each other. Potential employers judge, bosses judge, co-workers judge, clients judge, employees judge. Cursive is another communication skill, like spelling, grammar, construction. Communication skills serve you in ways you may never realize, nor never have anticipated.
Giving up on something as basic as writing skills is a bit like getting a neck tattoo. It advertises something about you that you may not always want to advertise.
 
2014-07-27 10:27:05 PM  

Guilty_plea_bargain: violentsalvation: I gave up cursive and lower case when I hit high school.

So you just write in uppercase manuscript or type everything?


Yeah.
 
2014-07-27 10:27:55 PM  
I actually do a lot of hand-writing (e.g. test logs, engineering notes, office/meeting room whiteboards) and am often complimented on it.  I feel for those that find themselves having to write something in front of a group and all they have is chicken-scratch.

Oddly, depending on where in the word it falls, adjacent lettering and whether or not it's a capital, I'll write a "d" four different ways.

/csb
 
2014-07-27 10:28:06 PM  

johnson442: One must know how to signature.


3.bp.blogspot.comwww.cartoonstock.comprepgenie.com.aufc08.deviantart.netimg.fark.netnotapunkrocker.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-27 10:29:04 PM  

Fart_Machine: What's the problem with teaching cursive?


It takes away from test preparation which impacts school funding.
 
2014-07-27 10:29:06 PM  
My local school system just stopped teaching it. I have no idea why, my cursive is much more legible than my print. I have not heard justification for this move. Laziness?
 
2014-07-27 10:30:58 PM  

Harry_Seldon: DeathRaySanta: Guilty_plea_bargain: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.

Here's what somebody pointed out to me, many summers ago:

Have somebody stand a short distance away, and toss a baseball to you.

You track the ball's trajectory, and successfully catch it.

Congradulations! You've just done introductory trig.

Actually, it is Calculus. Newtonian mechanics to be specific.


Last I checked, that is an example of physics, with trig thrown in. Trajectories are measured by angle, speed, and gravitational force.
 
2014-07-27 10:31:02 PM  

Boo_Guy: Wangiss: [japanesethegame.com image 850x729]

[fontmeme.com image 727x76]
[fontmeme.com image 712x76]
[fontmeme.com image 590x76]
[fontmeme.com image 434x76]


Wangiss: [japanesethegame.com image 850x729]


drawception.com
 
2014-07-27 10:31:29 PM  

Enemabag Jones: I am aware that people can put an 'X' if they cannot read/write. This is more of an somewhat rare exception. However is a block printing of your name a signature for legal purposes? Can people learn to write their name is ancient Egyptian or Mayan and define this as their signature? Is block lettering even a unique mark for signing a mortage or bank loan?


Yes, yes, and yes.

Frankly my signature looks nothing like cursive, and really only contains three somewhat identifiable letters out of twelve.  My last name in particular comes out looking little more than a symbol vaguely reminiscent of a half of a star, although it started as cursive and slowly degenerated.
 
2014-07-27 10:31:30 PM  
DarkVader:

I was SO looking forward to full conversion to the metric system when I was in elementary school.  It makes sense, unlike the garbage we're using now.

I was looking forward to using the metric system too. It seemed so orderly... on paper.

But here in New Zealand, when I talk about having come "7 megameters" from california, they all lose their minds. "You mean 7 thousand kilometers?" "No.. that would be a bad use of the metric system. It is 7 megameters. Saying 7 thousand kilometers is no better than saying "7 thousand thousand meters." It's stupid. It defeats the whole purpose of the metric system"

Same thing with weight. 200 milligrams? No... the metric system is clearly defined. Thais 2 decigrams.

If something is 100 meters long, it is 1 hectometer. It isn't difficult.

But, sadly, it seems that the adoption of the "metric" system is completely stalled, even in these so called "metric" countries, and even they have no idea how to use it.

So I've decided just to use the imperial system. No one measures distance between countries in inches.
 
2014-07-27 10:32:09 PM  
bridgettebooth.com
 
2014-07-27 10:32:24 PM  

danceswithcrows: Fireproof: I would hunt-and-peck while typing until I discovered Fark my Freshman year of college.

In 7th grade, all of us had to take Typing. It was 1989, there were IBM Selectrics, computers were not really considerd ready for prime time yet. I didn't learn much from the class because the teacher was pretty terrible. I didn't really learn to type well until several years later, when I wrote a novel on my dad's SE/30. Practice, practice, practice every day = eventual 70 wpm.

I also taught myself how to write in italics, blackletter, and Fëanorian Tengwar. None of these are really that useful. Kind of fun though....
[crow202.org image 400x326]
[crow202.org image 400x132]


An IBM Selectric was an amazing machine, which is why they were in production from 1960 and 1980.  Great keyboard.  IBM was always the master of making great keyboards.

Selectrics were typewriters, though some were connected to terminals as keyboards.
 
2014-07-27 10:34:51 PM  
Lets all be serious: Its a stunning conspiracy by the horse and carriage crowd to make sure our handwriting cant be OCRd, slowing the eventual take over by cyber lords.

All praise the horse and carriage; value you could understand.
 
2014-07-27 10:35:55 PM  

zero7717: They tried to teach me cursive when I was in elementary school. Didn't work. Still write in shaky tombstone print to this day.


Same here I failed miserably:

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2014-07-27 10:36:41 PM  

eas81: [bridgettebooth.com image 850x226]


On a certain level, yes.  It's hard to define.
 
2014-07-27 10:37:08 PM  

Marcintosh: Marcintosh: Anyone can use cursive but it'll be great if they stop teaching it.  THAT way you'll be able to tell who had a private school education and who hadda settle for public school.


If you're over the age of 20 or so and private versus public schooling has any bearing whatsoever in your life, you have probably failed.

As evidence, consider this: Is the distinction between success and failure in your life based on penmanship?
 
2014-07-27 10:37:25 PM  
After you've walked three miles uphill in the snow to get to school, it's kind of nice to stretch out and relax by a pot-belly stove and practice your cursive lettering.
 
2014-07-27 10:40:21 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'm going to give you the same answer I gave my coworkers when I was teaching in Phoenix when they didn't want to teach D'Nealian writing. Those kids can produce the most beautiful graffiti. It's art. Truly.

All you need to do is apply some freaking pressure. Many of my former students have beautiful cursive writing.


And they use it every time they write out a check to buy a VCR and cassette tape deck.
 
2014-07-27 10:40:40 PM  
it never occurred to me until just now that cursive was a great way of saving ink from the bowl!
 
2014-07-27 10:42:59 PM  
Meh, i still write cursive so i remember how to do it. Actually sone of my print could be considered a hybrid.

/39
 
2014-07-27 10:45:49 PM  
Huck And Molly Ziegler
After you've walked three miles uphill in the snow to get to school, it's kind of nice to stretch out and relax by a pot-belly stove and practice your cursive lettering.


And that's the way we liked it!
s3.vidimg.popscreen.com
 
2014-07-27 10:46:47 PM  
Ill also say this...being left handed and writing cursive sucks.
 
2014-07-27 10:47:04 PM  
Cause we spend most of our time lying?, just a guess
 
2014-07-27 10:50:20 PM  

frestcrallen: eas81: [bridgettebooth.com image 850x226]

On a certain level, yes.  It's hard to define.


So what does mine say?

i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-27 10:51:49 PM  
I use a combination of cursive and block letters, depending on which is faster for that situation.  It's pretty bad, and my handwriting which was previously bad is now almost unreadable.  I worry the banks will stop taking the checks I write it's so bad.

/yes, some people still ask to get paid via check
 
2014-07-27 10:53:30 PM  

gunsmack: lohphat: Why are you afraid of learning more than one thing?

It's a matter of time  and priorities. Students are learning less. The job market requires more. Isn't it possible that the time used for cursive could be used for something more practical?


They're learning less because of idiotic standardized testing.

So let's continue diluting education and race to the bottom faster.
 
2014-07-27 10:55:45 PM  

CruJones: I use a combination of cursive and block letters, depending on which is faster for that situation.  It's pretty bad, and my handwriting which was previously bad is now almost unreadable.  I worry the banks will stop taking the checks I write it's so bad.

/yes, some people still ask to get paid via check


For some it beats paying 4% to MasterCard. Me, I'll happily take 96% of my fee if I don't have to go to the bank every time I get paid.
 
2014-07-27 10:56:52 PM  
Practiced cursive writing is faster than printing. Taking notes by hand leads to better retention and understanding than typing them. That's it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140424102837.htm
 
2014-07-27 11:01:29 PM  

DarkVader: Herr Flick's Revenge: Every stupid person I have ever met could not read or write cursive.
Every person I have met that was intelligent or educated wrote in block printing cursive.
My mentally ill clearly more intelligent than I am brother prefers block printing.

Using cursive block printing means you are educated and intelligent.
Using block printing cursive means mental illness, stupidity or lack of education.

FTFY.

Seriously, it's 2014.  Nobody intelligent uses cursive any more, and hasn't since elementary school.  Only the severely mentally retarded have an irrational attachment to a writing style that lost its reason to exist with the invention of the typewriter and signifies nothing but mental illness with the current ubiquity of technology.


Let us know how long you have been applying for a job.  Seriously.

Cursive writing is the most primitive form of "sophisticated" writing.  The most basic form of hand written communications.

You are only capable of printing block characters. 
Good luck there, Sparky.   You fail to be able to actually write a resume by hand.  All of your references are lies.  Thanks.

Please, brag to us about your new-hire at Google or Microsoft without basic skills.  Please do, with references.

Written language skills my be on their way out, but they are still evidence of your basic literacy.  Fail is fail, thanks for playing.
 
2014-07-27 11:14:50 PM  

odinsposse: ChrisDe: At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.

Your signature doesn't need to be in cursive. It just has to be something that will be recognized as your own mark. You could sign all your checks with a drawing of a penis if you wanted to.


s3.postimg.org
 
2014-07-27 11:17:07 PM  

eas81: frestcrallen: eas81: [bridgettebooth.com image 850x226]

On a certain level, yes.  It's hard to define.

So what does mine say?

[i.imgur.com image 850x637]


comicsmedia.ign.com


Just kidding. It says you haven't had much cause to write in longhand in your life. Whether that's a legitimate loss or completely irrelevant is the subject of the thread.
 
2014-07-27 11:17:29 PM  
Why?  So that I can follow my dream of becoming a tattoo artist specializing in Mexican necks, that's why.
 
2014-07-27 11:24:17 PM  

frestcrallen: eas81: frestcrallen: eas81: [bridgettebooth.com image 850x226]

On a certain level, yes.  It's hard to define.

So what does mine say?

[i.imgur.com image 850x637]
[comicsmedia.ign.com image 465x310]


Just kidding. It says you haven't had much cause to write in longhand in your life. Whether that's a legitimate loss or completely irrelevant is the subject of the thread.


I/T support so it says I just use a computer all the time....:/   You should see my signature, if it ever comes to disputing a charge I know I will win.....
 
2014-07-27 11:24:55 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: DarkVader: Herr Flick's Revenge: Every stupid person I have ever met could not read or write cursive.
Every person I have met that was intelligent or educated wrote in block printing cursive.
My mentally ill clearly more intelligent than I am brother prefers block printing.

Using cursive block printing means you are educated and intelligent.
Using block printing cursive means mental illness, stupidity or lack of education.

FTFY.

Seriously, it's 2014.  Nobody intelligent uses cursive any more, and hasn't since elementary school.  Only the severely mentally retarded have an irrational attachment to a writing style that lost its reason to exist with the invention of the typewriter and signifies nothing but mental illness with the current ubiquity of technology.

Let us know how long you have been applying for a job.  Seriously.

Cursive writing is the most primitive form of "sophisticated" writing.  The most basic form of hand written communications.

You are only capable of printing block characters. 
Good luck there, Sparky.   You fail to be able to actually write a resume by hand.  All of your references are lies.  Thanks.

Please, brag to us about your new-hire at Google or Microsoft without basic skills.  Please do, with references.

Written language skills my be on their way out, but they are still evidence of your basic literacy.  Fail is fail, thanks for playing.


Wow, you're kind of a dick, aren't you?

On what measure are you making these claims? Just your own say so? I interview people for technical jobs where they need to communicate. I don't give a good god damn if they can write in cursive, because all of their reports will be on a word processor.  I wanna know if they can speak intelligently to someone who isn't a computer geek. Can they explain the Heartbleed attack in 90 seconds without gobbledygook?

Communication is important. Ability to articulate yourself is mandatory. But cursive writing has little to do with that, and I don't see it as some proof of your overall worth as an employee or of your literacy.  Literacy is about the mind, about your words, not your medium. I have horrible hand eye coordination - my printing and cursive are awful, but I have written papers that have been kept as examples of great writing. I write for work for proposals and have written for general officers. My horrible penmanship neither detracted nor contributed.
 
2014-07-27 11:26:00 PM  
The best reason I can think of for a grammar school student to develop a solid cursive hand involves career choice: If he or she aspires to join the exciting world of newspaper journalism, it's good to have a clean handwriting style that can be easily read out of wire-bound notebook.

That way, when you're typing up your story, you'll have a reduced risk of misspelled words. It's not like that spelling checks itself, you know!
 
2014-07-27 11:30:29 PM  

balisane: Practiced cursive writing is faster than printing. Taking notes by hand leads to better retention and understanding than typing them. That's it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140424102837.htm


My best coursework ever was when I took handwritten notes in cursive (with a number of abbreviations and symbols mixed in) and later that day transcribed those notes into a typed outline.  I took all my trial notes in cursive writing using similar abbreviations and became fast enough to keep up with most witness' testimony.  I could have never done that with a keyboard.  When you have to encode information mentally in more than one way you'll retain it better than if you do it only once.  Write it and speak it, write it and type it, write it and translate it- it doesn't matter what the different encoding methods are used so long as you use more than one.
 
2014-07-27 11:32:25 PM  
I learned cursive in school -- but my method of writing went to shiat, so I started printing and using a typewriter. Typewriter: mechanical device, unpowered, which uses precision connected keys and levers to move steel rods holding squares of Times New Roman letters to impact a cloth or plastic inked ribbon between them and a sheet of paper on a roller to produce legible, organized print.

However, I have had the opportunity to read letters and notes written by people whose cursive writing was absolutely beautiful, easy to read, and a treasure to behold. Those letters you didn't want to wad up and throw away.

The forms of the words just flowed like art, soothing to the eye and almost mesmerizing. One of the best examples is the Constitution of the United States, having been written by 'regular folks' and not by a calligrapher. Old letters from back then, written on parchment or linen paper, by quill -- or later -- fountain pen make you want to mount them and hang them on the wall.

Women actually usually surpassed men in this form of writing and receiving a love letter from one back then was a true jewel.

Fonts, not matter how well made, by computer just do not carry the same magic. Times New Roman -- created mainly for mass printing, is sterile and cold but easy to read and easy to make into movable type.

Type was made from lead and hand set, later to be set by an ingenious, massive typewriter like machine, and worn type was dropped into the 'Hell Bucket' attached to the machine. A hot pot which melted the lead to be formed into new type.

There was basic cursive also, not the overly illuminated or fancified versions you find from the Middle Ages, where Monks spent years copying texts by hand. Basic cursive is easy to read.
 
2014-07-27 11:34:16 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: Let us know how long you have been applying for a job.  Seriously.

Cursive writing is the most primitive form of "sophisticated" writing.  The most basic form of hand written communications.

You are only capable of printing block characters.
Good luck there, Sparky.   You fail to be able to actually write a resume by hand.  All of your references are lies.  Thanks.

Please, brag to us about your new-hire at Google or Microsoft without basic skills.  Please do, with references.

Written language skills my be on their way out, but they are still evidence of your basic literacy.  Fail is fail, thanks for playing.


Competency with multiple writing forms is a very small, if even applicable in today's electronic environment, aspect of conveying intelligible ideas in print. The beauty of one's writing is irrelevant if no one can understand the information being presented due to poor grammar and sentence structure. I think that schools should prioritize the latter and place much less emphasis on the former... 'construct the carriage before hitching up the mule,' as it were.

You know what I mean?
 
2014-07-27 11:37:27 PM  
Why learn to read cursive?  So you'll know what something like www.jfklibrary.orgthis says if you ever get one:
 
2014-07-27 11:38:17 PM  

ElLoco: MylesHeartVodak: Let us know how long you have been applying for a job.  Seriously.

Cursive writing is the most primitive form of "sophisticated" writing.  The most basic form of hand written communications.

You are only capable of printing block characters.
Good luck there, Sparky.   You fail to be able to actually write a resume by hand.  All of your references are lies.  Thanks.

Please, brag to us about your new-hire at Google or Microsoft without basic skills.  Please do, with references.

Written language skills my be on their way out, but they are still evidence of your basic literacy.  Fail is fail, thanks for playing.

Competency with multiple writing forms is a very small, if even applicable in today's electronic environment, aspect of conveying intelligible ideas in print. The beauty of one's writing is irrelevant if no one can understand the information being presented due to poor grammar and sentence structure. I think that schools should prioritize the latter and place much less emphasis on the former... 'construct the carriage before hitching up the mule,' as it were.

You know what I mean?


Don't you find it strange that forty years ago children in public schools did all of the above, and even though we spend much more now our children are less capable than before? My children are learning cursive. And Latin. And a shiat ton of other electives. I call it the Parenting Gap. My kids will be Haves.
 
2014-07-27 11:40:43 PM  
toejam:

Fuuuuuuu...

Does this mean that gay Robert Downey Jr is going to show up soon?
 
2014-07-27 11:41:36 PM  

stan unusual: says if you ever get one:


Heh, that reminds me of the "welcome" card my son received from the White House when he was born.  If my son can't read that card one day, I've failed as a parent in a lot of ways.
 
2014-07-27 11:42:09 PM  
How the heck are future doctors supposed to write unintelligible prescriptions if they don't know cursive?
 
2014-07-27 11:43:27 PM  

stan unusual: Why learn to read cursive?  So you'll know what something like [www.jfklibrary.org image 850x574]this says if you ever get one:


This just proves that learning cursive gets you shot in the head, they will kill you for learning.
 
2014-07-27 11:45:44 PM  

danceswithcrows: Fireproof: I would hunt-and-peck while typing until I discovered Fark my Freshman year of college.

In 7th grade, all of us had to take Typing. It was 1989, there were IBM Selectrics, computers were not really considerd ready for prime time yet. I didn't learn much from the class because the teacher was pretty terrible. I didn't really learn to type well until several years later, when I wrote a novel on my dad's SE/30. Practice, practice, practice every day = eventual 70 wpm.

I also taught myself how to write in italics, blackletter, and Fëanorian Tengwar. None of these are really that useful. Kind of fun though....


So you taught yourself how to make art. Do you fill out forms or write letters to people in Blackletter? No? And as for your "Italics"...no. Just no. That isn't Italics, but something more akin to calligraphy.
 
2014-07-27 11:46:35 PM  
"Paul was meticulous and organized: he always carried a notebook around with him, in which he methodically wrote down lyrics and chord changes in his neat handwriting. In contrast, John seemed to live in chaos: he was constantly searching for scraps of paper that he'd hurriedly scribbled ideas on."

Not sure if that makes an argument for or against.
 
2014-07-27 11:48:16 PM  

badhatharry: Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.

Should analog clocks be outlawed?


No, because analog clocks are useful.

Our system of timekeeping is bizarre. It may not seem that way, but that's just because you're used to it. But think about it: the second is a meaningless and arbitrary unit. Things get weirder with minutes and seconds. (Why sixty?) Then it just goes to hell: We have twelve names for hours (why?), where "twelve" is the lowest, "one" is next lowest, and up to "eleven", the highest. It's a nightmare.

Dial clocks organize that crap. Once you understand the system, you can skip the dial and use a digital clock, which just displays the numbers. But a graphical display helps you get a handle on the rigmarole.
 
2014-07-27 11:49:49 PM  

J Noble Daggett: daffy: My sister wrights so beautifully, my mother was always proud. I, on the other hand, wrote so badly that even I could not read it. Soon my signature is going to flat line----------------.

My son's was so bad we used to scan his homework and print it. The teacher asked me to have him print his work. After a few days she said to have him use the computer.

What does your sister wright? And what's that got to do with cursive writing?
Sorry for the spelling lame but, people judge each other. Potential employers judge, bosses judge, co-workers judge, clients judge, employees judge. Cursive is another communication skill, like spelling, grammar, construction. Communication skills serve you in ways you may never realize, nor never have anticipated.
Giving up on something as basic as writing skills is a bit like getting a neck tattoo. It advertises something about you that you may not always want to advertise.


Sorry. Did I say that it was not needed? I happen to think it is something that is needed. I also think that history is important, but that does not seem important in schools either. All I said was that my son and I write badly. I worked for 25 years. My son just graduated collage with honors. Is it possible that you may have judged me a bit unfairly?
 
2014-07-27 11:50:22 PM  
This argument reminds me a lot of those "having solved all other problems..." headlines and people pointing out that it's possible to do more than one thing at a time. In addition to all the other crap I learned in school, I don't remember learning cursive (we called it handwriting) taking very long. Of course, back then we could learn more than one thing a year.
 
2014-07-27 11:50:39 PM  

TheVeryDeadIanMartin: How the heck are future doctors supposed to write unintelligible prescriptions if they don't know cursive?


The ER doctor I saw yesterday just printed my three prescriptions off a computer. Didn't even sign anything on them.
 
2014-07-27 11:53:26 PM  

Captain Horatio Mindblower: badhatharry: Number40: Cursive should be outlawed.

Should analog clocks be outlawed?

No, because analog clocks are useful.

Our system of timekeeping is bizarre. It may not seem that way, but that's just because you're used to it. But think about it: the second is a meaningless and arbitrary unit. Things get weirder with minutes and seconds. (Why sixty?) Then it just goes to hell: We have twelve names for hours (why?), where "twelve" is the lowest, "one" is next lowest, and up to "eleven", the highest. It's a nightmare.

Dial clocks organize that crap. Once you understand the system, you can skip the dial and use a digital clock, which just displays the numbers. But a graphical display helps you get a handle on the rigmarole.


And this is but one more reason I switched to military-style timekeeping. My daily watch is analog, sure, but all my digital clocks (computer, phone, tablet, digital watch, etc) all go from 0:00 to 23:59.
 
2014-07-27 11:56:41 PM  
There are people who have succeeded in life despite severe reading disabilities. However, you would not want you kid to have a reading disability. Cursive writing is a skill they should attempt. Perhaps they won't master it. Fine. But while trying they will be reinforcing other writing skills that will serve them well, especially the very basics of spelling, even though spell checkers help, you have to get close for them to work well.
It's not like kids are going to be failed a grade (as if they even do that anymore) for poor penmanship.
 
2014-07-28 12:00:49 AM  

wademh: It's not like kids are going to be failed a grade (as if they even do that anymore) for poor penmanship.


Largely they don't fail kids a grade anymore.  It permanently damages their ability to make friends.  Seriously, that's the rational.  Timmy won't be able to make meaningful friends with kids a year younger and they may even tease him.
 
2014-07-28 12:02:44 AM  

daffy: J Noble Daggett: daffy: My sister wrights so beautifully, my mother was always proud. I, on the other hand, wrote so badly that even I could not read it. Soon my signature is going to flat line----------------.

My son's was so bad we used to scan his homework and print it. The teacher asked me to have him print his work. After a few days she said to have him use the computer.

What does your sister wright? And what's that got to do with cursive writing?
Sorry for the spelling lame but, people judge each other. Potential employers judge, bosses judge, co-workers judge, clients judge, employees judge. Cursive is another communication skill, like spelling, grammar, construction. Communication skills serve you in ways you may never realize, nor never have anticipated.
Giving up on something as basic as writing skills is a bit like getting a neck tattoo. It advertises something about you that you may not always want to advertise.

Sorry. Did I say that it was not needed? I happen to think it is something that is needed. I also think that history is important, but that does not seem important in schools either. All I said was that my son and I write badly. I worked for 25 years. My son just graduated collage with honors. Is it possible that you may have judged me a bit unfairly?


With apologies, my comments were intended more as a general broadcast, taking advantage of your typo/misspelling as a means of introducing my thoughts. I did not intend for it to be a lecture targeted at you or to imply that you expressed an antagonistic point of view.
 
2014-07-28 12:05:17 AM  

frestcrallen: "Paul was meticulous and organized: he always carried a notebook around with him, in which he methodically wrote down lyrics and chord changes in his neat handwriting. In contrast, John seemed to live in chaos: he was constantly searching for scraps of paper that he'd hurriedly scribbled ideas on."

Not sure if that makes an argument for or against.


For against it doesn't matter it's a Beatles reference, unless you are a 13 year old girl in 1966 there is no reason to care.
 
2014-07-28 12:07:39 AM  
Hand writing analysis.  An effective tool if you would all just please conform!
 
2014-07-28 12:10:49 AM  
I feel it is an issue of dividing people based on socio-economic class.  The students I taught weren't learning cursive because they were being drilled on math and reading skills.  They enter school so far behind the usual suburban norm that many things are left out of their education, usually the things that enhance one's life...art, music, play.
 
2014-07-28 12:11:54 AM  

gadian: wademh: It's not like kids are going to be failed a grade (as if they even do that anymore) for poor penmanship.

Largely they don't fail kids a grade anymore.  It permanently damages their ability to make friends.  Seriously, that's the rational.  Timmy won't be able to make meaningful friends with kids a year younger and they may even tease him.


This is not un-rational, putting people out of there social group, is problematic at best, I went to school it people that where held back and the didn't make it, in the sense that that actually killed them. So don't be so glib about the damage that social alienation does to people, because it is real
 
2014-07-28 12:21:14 AM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


So how are you going to sign legal documents with your keyboard?  Or are you going to print your name in big block letters like a 4 year old?
 
2014-07-28 12:28:29 AM  

silverjets: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

So how are you going to sign legal documents with your keyboard?  Or are you going to print your name in big block letters like a 4 year old?





Electronic signature how does it work
 
2014-07-28 12:34:52 AM  

eas81: silverjets: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

So how are you going to sign legal documents with your keyboard?  Or are you going to print your name in big block letters like a 4 year old?

Electronic signature how does it work


not in the way you clearly think, there are fewer points of reference for my signature, math does not solve everything actually, and IRL there is trust knowledge of people, if you divorce all social interaction and trust from what we do in life, we may as well take off an nuke it ALL from obit because it really is the only way to be sure.
 
2014-07-28 12:39:16 AM  

eas81: silverjets: gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.

So how are you going to sign legal documents with your keyboard?  Or are you going to print your name in big block letters like a 4 year old?


Electronic signature how does it work


I'd like to see you put an electronic signature on an original paper document.
 
2014-07-28 12:39:21 AM  

albatros183: This is not un-rational, putting people out of there social group, is problematic at best, I went to school it people that where held back and the didn't make it, in the sense that that actually killed them. So don't be so glib about the damage that social alienation does to people, because it is real


The alternative is graduating people who can't read, do basic math, or who because of their lack of skill in basic reading, writing, and arithmetic has missed a substantial portion of the rest of their education. Fundamentally, if the parents cared, their kid wouldn't be failing academically.  They would've at least been put on a learning plan a long time ago.  I realize that, because parents just don't care, we put the school system into the role of parents far more often than we should.  I draw the line at the school making sure a kid makes friends once he is held back.  If a kid suffers so greatly from being held back, they really ought to then be moved to special ed or home schooled because there is more wrong with them than academics. 

How is it going to play out for a kid who graduates who can't read?  We all know the answer to that.  Ideally, we'd encompass all aspects of a child's development at all times, but as is the crux with the handwriting issue, there isn't enough time to do everything all the time.  Hold the kid back, don't let other kids bully them, and maybe the kid will learn something.  They get held back now or they get held back later.
 
2014-07-28 12:46:51 AM  

gadian: How is it going to play out for a kid who graduates who can't read?  We all know the answer to that.


It's true that they'll be significantly affected. But giving a diploma to an illiterate person is pure bad. Let them take a thirteenth year if they're still not reading fast enough, or let them graduate by night school. A diploma not being proof of literacy is making the bachelor's degree more common than it is necessary and more expensive than is sustainable (along with a host of other things making college expensive) and it needs to STOP.
 
2014-07-28 12:50:14 AM  

gadian: albatros183: This is not un-rational, putting people out of there social group, is problematic at best, I went to school it people that where held back and the didn't make it, in the sense that that actually killed them. So don't be so glib about the damage that social alienation does to people, because it is real

The alternative is graduating people who can't read, do basic math, or who because of their lack of skill in basic reading, writing, and arithmetic has missed a substantial portion of the rest of their education. Fundamentally, if the parents cared, their kid wouldn't be failing academically.  They would've at least been put on a learning plan a long time ago.  I realize that, because parents just don't care, we put the school system into the role of parents far more often than we should.  I draw the line at the school making sure a kid makes friends once he is held back.  If a kid suffers so greatly from being held back, they really ought to then be moved to special ed or home schooled because there is more wrong with them than academics. 

How is it going to play out for a kid who graduates who can't read?  We all know the answer to that.  Ideally, we'd encompass all aspects of a child's development at all times, but as is the crux with the handwriting issue, there isn't enough time to do everything all the time.  Hold the kid back, don't let other kids bully them, and maybe the kid will learn something.  They get held back now or they get held back later.


No that is not the alternative.

There is no reason kids should graduate that cannot read, period, no reason except choice, it is not parents, greg in my example was 14 when I was in grade 5, he helped me, looked out for me, he was not in anyway stupid, he was poor, I was not, he would have been called a bully I think, he protected me, and you want to tell me that holding him back 4 years was a good thing?.

You would be wrong to say such a thing.

OK anecdote is not reason but, we choose,  "Ideally, we'd encompass all aspects of a child's development at all times, but as is the crux with the handwriting issue..."

We can make this choice, we make society...WE MAKE IT. PERIOD.
 
2014-07-28 01:04:56 AM  
I accidentally renewed my cursive writing last year and it's a blast. Everything just looks classier. It does to the eyes what a smooth English accent does to the ears.
 
2014-07-28 01:07:45 AM  

jst3p: I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.


How about we lengthen the school day and teach both.

And give teachers the healthy uptick in salary they deserve.

Problem solved.
 
2014-07-28 01:10:21 AM  

Hermione_Granger: jst3p: I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.

How about we lengthen the school day and teach both.

And give teachers the healthy uptick in salary they deserve.

Problem solved.


I only teach scripting in Script.
 
2014-07-28 01:10:44 AM  

UsikFark: A mix of cursive and print letters is the sign of educated, efficient handwriting. Meanwhile, I know people born just a few years after me who write their (print) letters like crooked tombstones in a graveyard.

Here is an example of the sort of cursive/print hybrid:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x278]
That is not the best handwriting, but you can tell they learned cursive and still link frequent letter pairs.


see now depending on the age I think that's embarassing and uneducated. this country is a sinking ship and the current dumbing down of our children- thanks to dumb parents- is going to turn this country into a 3rd world sinkhole in another 60 years.

/only write in cursive
//yes i have beautiful handwriting
///i write wedding invitations by hand. biatches.
 
2014-07-28 01:14:37 AM  

jst3p: I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.


You think the world needs more shiatty webpages?
 
2014-07-28 01:17:37 AM  

Hermione_Granger: jst3p: I would rather take the time they use to teach cursive and use it to teach HTML or any scripting.

How about we lengthen the school day and teach both.

And give teachers the healthy uptick in salary they deserve.

Problem solved.


Time and money haven't improved things yet. More time and money have more correlation to decline than improvement. Let's not do that. Paying more teachers is great if, by a consistent set of rules (not necessarily standardized testing) they can earn the money by demonstrating improved performance. Otherwise it's feel-good money that allows us to ignore the dumbing down of our country.
 
2014-07-28 01:17:39 AM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Every stupid person I have ever met could not read or write cursive.
Every person I have met that was intelligent or educated wrote cursive.
My mentally ill brother prefers block printing.

Using cursive means you are educated and intelligent.
Using block printing means mental illness, stupidity or lack of education.


Plus, those who cannot write in cursive tend to be very defensive, yet touchy about it.

Stupid dumb people.  Just shut up and deliver my pizza.
 
2014-07-28 01:18:17 AM  
Really this is not the first FARK cursive thread, and I wish mine was better than it is, so how about something constructive and someone post links to making it better?
 
2014-07-28 01:23:42 AM  

albatros183: Really this is not the first FARK cursive thread, and I wish mine was better than it is, so how about something constructive and someone post links to making it better?


I had a very tough time sourcing good material on this. In the end, I simply wrote about a hundred different alphabets and saw what I liked and didn't like. I revised it for speed and ended up with something I really enjoy. Maybe the best incentive, if you can get into this sort of thing, is to reward yourself with nice pens. Not a stupid $20 Cross pen. Do some window shopping and set your eyes on a fine gentleman's (or lady's) pen. I used a new sepia fountain pen up thread. It was very enjoyable.
 
2014-07-28 01:34:11 AM  

Wangiss: albatros183: Really this is not the first FARK cursive thread, and I wish mine was better than it is, so how about something constructive and someone post links to making it better?

I had a very tough time sourcing good material on this. In the end, I simply wrote about a hundred different alphabets and saw what I liked and didn't like. I revised it for speed and ended up with something I really enjoy. Maybe the best incentive, if you can get into this sort of thing, is to reward yourself with nice pens. Not a stupid $20 Cross pen. Do some window shopping and set your eyes on a fine gentleman's (or lady's) pen. I used a new sepia fountain pen up thread. It was very enjoyable.


This seems to be a reasonable approach though not practical exactly, I have to agree about pens though,  never spent less than $50 on one, even had some with my label (fountain) printed....

My cursive still sucks...

I can sort of type though :).

OK snort... my cat is eating my laces.. must go.
 
2014-07-28 01:50:04 AM  
Yes, pacify the lionel. But seriously, since you're into pens look at some you'd covet, then reward yourself if you can show yourself a significant improvement in handwriting. Beauty is a virtue and you can make your life a little more enjoyable with a real, quality pen and the handwriting to match.
 
2014-07-28 01:53:49 AM  
Simple -- if a person expects anything other than a cubical land, minimum-wage, or manual-labor job, writing is still very much alive and well, particularly at the higher-level jobs.  Indeed, many things are typed and send via e-mail, but you'll still find many (most?) lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc., all taking notes in cursive.  Why?  Efficiency and the thought process.

My handwriting sucks and I prefer typing as a result, BUT in my science, engineering, and med school classes, hand-taking of notes still was best in many situations.   Even if you're using a tablet or touch-screen computer, you're still going to ultimately have to write letters at some point.   I've also found that memory retention was superior when hand-writing notes vs. typing them.

If it were up to me, I'd have the US schools do what many European schools do -- fountain pens ONLY for the first few years.  It forces you to write properly and the plethora of inks, nibs, and paper makes it a very interactive process.  As an older adult, writing with a fountain pen is rather therapeutic for me compared to typing the same thing into a computer or even writing with a Biro.

As far as "keyboarding" classes -- bah, humbug!  I type ~120+wpm depending on the keyboard at-hand, even up to 50wpm on a Blackberry keyboard.  Never took a typing class and never needed to.  The mind & body automatically pick up efficiency on that.  If you need proof of that, just watch any teenager sending texts on a mobile phone.  No keyboarding class teaches that but I'm sure most of the teens would beat me in a heartbeat on there.
 
2014-07-28 01:55:12 AM  

Wangiss: Yes, pacify the lionel. But seriously, since you're into pens look at some you'd covet, then reward yourself if you can show yourself a significant improvement in handwriting. Beauty is a virtue and you can make your life a little more enjoyable with a real, quality pen and the handwriting to match.


cannot afford pens any more, pencils pencils are where it's at, pins are not, wait did I say pins... I meant stamps

/Also I cannot afford pens anymore
//$50 is like food for a month these days.
 
2014-07-28 01:56:08 AM  
I love cursive writing and I have nice penmanship, but I'm not terribly smart, just old.

I think cursive should still be taught in schools, but then again, I wish they still taught Home Ec and Wood Shop.  I gained some lower-level skills in both, so I bemoan the fact that those aren't taught anymore, either.  I can sew those onions on my belt quite nicely.

Lastly, to continue the old-person rant, I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma, two spaces after periods, and the Dewey Decimal System.
 
2014-07-28 02:03:19 AM  

Wangiss: Yes, pacify the lionel. But seriously, since you're into pens look at some you'd covet, then reward yourself if you can show yourself a significant improvement in handwriting. Beauty is a virtue and you can make your life a little more enjoyable with a real, quality pen and the handwriting to match.


I agree
 
2014-07-28 02:03:53 AM  

vegaswench: I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma


Bring back?

It's the only way to punctuate. People don't do it, but those people are just wrong.
 
2014-07-28 02:08:05 AM  

doglover: vegaswench: I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma

Bring back?

It's the only way to punctuate. People don't do it, but those people are just wrong.


I think you mean Punchuaite.

/Yep up to long..
 
2014-07-28 02:09:22 AM  

albatros183: Wangiss: Yes, pacify the lionel. But seriously, since you're into pens look at some you'd covet, then reward yourself if you can show yourself a significant improvement in handwriting. Beauty is a virtue and you can make your life a little more enjoyable with a real, quality pen and the handwriting to match.

cannot afford pens any more, pencils pencils are where it's at, pins are not, wait did I say pins... I meant stamps

/Also I cannot afford pens anymore
//$50 is like food for a month these days.


Very well, let me put my money where my mouth is. I'll buy you a fine pen worth the same month's groceries if you show me a video of you writing in your current hand, and then another video of you writing in a much better hand in a few weeks (or months or however long it takes). EIP. I'm completely serious. This certainly won't be the first time I'll have given a farker money.
 
2014-07-28 02:11:03 AM  

doglover: vegaswench: I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma

Bring back?

It's the only way to punctuate. People don't do it, but those people are just wrong.


Meh, I find times at which it is more or less confusing. I never rule it out simply as superfluous, but if it creates confusion in lists or by making a sentence choppy I sometimes leave it out.
 
2014-07-28 02:18:33 AM  

doglover: vegaswench: I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma

Bring back?

It's the only way to punctuate. People don't do it, but those people are just wrong.


Amen!
 
2014-07-28 02:20:42 AM  

Wangiss: albatros183: Wangiss: Yes, pacify the lionel. But seriously, since you're into pens look at some you'd covet, then reward yourself if you can show yourself a significant improvement in handwriting. Beauty is a virtue and you can make your life a little more enjoyable with a real, quality pen and the handwriting to match.

cannot afford pens any more, pencils pencils are where it's at, pins are not, wait did I say pins... I meant stamps

/Also I cannot afford pens anymore
//$50 is like food for a month these days.

Very well, let me put my money where my mouth is. I'll buy you a fine pen worth the same month's groceries if you show me a video of you writing in your current hand, and then another video of you writing in a much better hand in a few weeks (or months or however long it takes). EIP. I'm completely serious. This certainly won't be the first time I'll have given a farker money.


Tried but EIP gets rejected by google, EIP or me at google.com
 
2014-07-28 02:28:53 AM  

specialkae: "It is a sort of rite of passage. I think there is artistic value in cursive ... also knowing how to read communication in cursive is something we should be able to do."

Oh.  When I write, I write in cursive, and while it's not the best penmanship, it is legible for those who know how to read it.  I unfortunately live in a house full of printers, sloppy block style and they can't decipher my writing any more than I can their printing.  We have a communications gap. Grocery lists are the worst, ick. Stepkid has taken to drawing hieroglyphics to what he wants brought home as I cannot read his bad, bad printing.

/thinks that cursive should continue to be taught and sloppy printers should have to take a course in at least how to read it.
//I still write letters and cards to friends and family, I would like for them to know who it's from
///refuses to print. I like the flow of cursive, but like email and texting better :)


Writing in cursive is a lot faster, I agree.

/physician
//no full switch to EMR yet, so still writing records.
///time is important to me, my fast cursive is legible by nurses, my fast printing is not.
 
2014-07-28 02:41:28 AM  

rga184: specialkae: "It is a sort of rite of passage. I think there is artistic value in cursive ... also knowing how to read communication in cursive is something we should be able to do."

Oh.  When I write, I write in cursive, and while it's not the best penmanship, it is legible for those who know how to read it.  I unfortunately live in a house full of printers, sloppy block style and they can't decipher my writing any more than I can their printing.  We have a communications gap. Grocery lists are the worst, ick. Stepkid has taken to drawing hieroglyphics to what he wants brought home as I cannot read his bad, bad printing.

/thinks that cursive should continue to be taught and sloppy printers should have to take a course in at least how to read it.
//I still write letters and cards to friends and family, I would like for them to know who it's from
///refuses to print. I like the flow of cursive, but like email and texting better :)

Writing in cursive is a lot faster, I agree.

/physician
//no full switch to EMR yet, so still writing records.
///time is important to me, my fast cursive is legible by nurses, my fast printing is not.


as a doctor, i would want some sort of andoid tablet with SwiftKey X. I can type much faster than I can write with it, because of it's amazing predictions. I dont even vaguely have to hit the right key, sometimes skip entire words with it.

/love that program
 
2014-07-28 02:42:30 AM  
(i'm not a doctor. didn't mean that with "as a doctor", but rather, if i was one)
 
2014-07-28 02:44:09 AM  
I love me some SwiftKey. Is there anything like it for iPad? I hate my iPad's keyboard. It's so impossibly bad. Yuck.
 
2014-07-28 02:50:01 AM  

Wangiss: I love me some SwiftKey. Is there anything like it for iPad? I hate my iPad's keyboard. It's so impossibly bad. Yuck.


Oh, i agree. There is nothing like it for iOS, and so, in a single stroke, guarantees i buy an android phone. There is no where else I can safely text while driving. We know we shouldnt do it, but when you do, god, it makes things so much safer. Like back spacing with a swipe. Compare that with scrupulously hitting the backspace the right number of times, squinting all the while...
 
2014-07-28 02:52:38 AM  

sobriquet by any other name: Wangiss: I love me some SwiftKey. Is there anything like it for iPad? I hate my iPad's keyboard. It's so impossibly bad. Yuck.

Oh, i agree. There is nothing like it for iOS, and so, in a single stroke, guarantees i buy an android phone. There is no where else I can safely text while driving. We know we shouldnt do it, but when you do, god, it makes things so much safer. Like back spacing with a swipe. Compare that with scrupulously hitting the backspace the right number of times, squinting all the while...


Is there anything better than a pad for cursive? really writing on a tablet makes no sense.
 
2014-07-28 02:53:35 AM  

sobriquet by any other name: Wangiss: I love me some SwiftKey. Is there anything like it for iPad? I hate my iPad's keyboard. It's so impossibly bad. Yuck.

Oh, i agree. There is nothing like it for iOS, and so, in a single stroke, guarantees i buy an android phone. There is no where else I can safely text while driving. We know we shouldnt do it, but when you do, god, it makes things so much safer. Like back spacing with a swipe. Compare that with scrupulously hitting the backspace the right number of times, squinting all the while...


Makes me stabby. I hates it, my precious. Filthy, nasty appleses. I got the iPad to make it easy for people to sign up for my mailing list at conventions. It's nice and all, UNLESS YOU WANT TO FARKING INPUT SOMETHING.
 
2014-07-28 02:56:23 AM  

Wangiss: sobriquet by any other name: Wangiss: I love me some SwiftKey. Is there anything like it for iPad? I hate my iPad's keyboard. It's so impossibly bad. Yuck.

Oh, i agree. There is nothing like it for iOS, and so, in a single stroke, guarantees i buy an android phone. There is no where else I can safely text while driving. We know we shouldnt do it, but when you do, god, it makes things so much safer. Like back spacing with a swipe. Compare that with scrupulously hitting the backspace the right number of times, squinting all the while...

Makes me stabby. I hates it, my precious. Filthy, nasty appleses. I got the iPad to make it easy for people to sign up for my mailing list at conventions. It's nice and all, UNLESS YOU WANT TO FARKING INPUT SOMETHING.


I cannot believe you are saying captain kirk was wrong! in 1964!

Say it is not so...
 
2014-07-28 03:03:37 AM  
I'd be happy if we just taught students how to observe and think.
 
2014-07-28 03:09:33 AM  

zepillin: I'd be happy if we just taught students how to observe and think.


That leads to hemlock poisoning.
 
2014-07-28 03:20:01 AM  
It's just a step in the process.  I doesn't have to be a long drawn out process like the past.  It's like college/tech electronics classes where you have to take math that involves learning how to calculate circuit voltages and use formulas that involve polar and rectangular conversions.  It's not like anyone actually does a lot of manual calculations outside the classroom when you have some software that figures it out for you as the circuit is designed.
 
2014-07-28 03:27:23 AM  

wademh: daffy: J Noble Daggett: daffy: My sister wrights so beautifully, my mother was always proud. I, on the other hand, wrote so badly that even I could not read it. Soon my signature is going to flat line----------------.

My son's was so bad we used to scan his homework and print it. The teacher asked me to have him print his work. After a few days she said to have him use the computer.

What does your sister wright? And what's that got to do with cursive writing?
Sorry for the spelling lame but, people judge each other. Potential employers judge, bosses judge, co-workers judge, clients judge, employees judge. Cursive is another communication skill, like spelling, grammar, construction. Communication skills serve you in ways you may never realize, nor never have anticipated.
Giving up on something as basic as writing skills is a bit like getting a neck tattoo. It advertises something about you that you may not always want to advertise.

Sorry. Did I say that it was not needed? I happen to think it is something that is needed. I also think that history is important, but that does not seem important in schools either. All I said was that my son and I write badly. I worked for 25 years. My son just graduated collage with honors. Is it possible that you may have judged me a bit unfairly?

With apologies, my comments were intended more as a general broadcast, taking advantage of your typo/misspelling as a means of introducing my thoughts. I did not intend for it to be a lecture targeted at you or to imply that you expressed an antagonistic point of view.


Thank you.
 
2014-07-28 03:40:00 AM  

violentsalvation: I gave up cursive and lower case when I hit high school.


Same.  When I write, it's all caps.  My cursive was illegible anyways.
 
2014-07-28 03:41:27 AM  
Yes.
 
2014-07-28 03:41:50 AM  

Sean M: Indeed, many things are typed and send via e-mail, but you'll still find many (most?) lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc., all taking notes in cursive.


Ha ha ha, no.
 
2014-07-28 04:12:19 AM  

aerojockey: Sean M: Indeed, many things are typed and send via e-mail, but you'll still find many (most?) lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc., all taking notes in cursive.

Ha ha ha, no.


the ha ha is that this is true and sociopaths will be sociopaths, there is a reason that doctors and lawyers take notes in hand AND NO OTHER WAY so sociopaths will be sociopaths. Happy day.
 
2014-07-28 05:02:43 AM  
Captain Horatio Mindblower:

But think about it: the second is a meaningless and arbitrary unit. Things get weirder with minutes and seconds. (Why sixty?)

it's the sexagesimal system.  did you not learn that or cursive?!
 
2014-07-28 05:40:01 AM  

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: Arguments for cursive: its pretty, easy, and backwards compatible.

Arguments against: its unnessesary and outdated.

Anything else?


For teaching fine motor skills to children (children for whom fine motor skills are still developing)?
 
2014-07-28 06:16:47 AM  

doglover: vegaswench: I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma

Bring back?

It's the only way to punctuate. People don't do it, but those people are just wrong.


See, this is why you show up in green.
 
2014-07-28 06:46:44 AM  

Wangiss: if it creates confusion in lists


It does the opposite of this.
 
2014-07-28 06:50:04 AM  
 
2014-07-28 08:07:04 AM  
Many countries in Asia have kids learning their characters over the course of years. Japan also has classical Japanese as a part of the curriculum (think Middle English to Old English,) and sometimes calligraphy. They still are kicking our ass at math, science, and more. (Their system is definitely not perfect, though that's not related to this point).

When the approach to or emphasis on education is wrong, when it is underfunded, when it takes a back seat to activities, and so on is when the problems arise. A bit of time spent on cursive is a classic case of avoiding the actual problem or trying or, perhaps, applying a bandaid to a severed leg thinking it'll fix everything (only a mother's kisses do that, dummies).
 
2014-07-28 08:19:09 AM  

albatros183: For against it doesn't matter it's a Beatles reference, unless you are a 13 year old girl in 1966 there is no reason to care.


37.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-28 08:20:17 AM  
Because banks still require signatures.

On another note. Always remember every security question you've ever created.  My father had to answer one he created at a bank that no longer exists.  And somehow Suntrust had it.  They never owned that bank.
 
2014-07-28 09:10:19 AM  

odinsposse: ChrisDe: At some point in your life, somebody is going to write you a check. And you damned well should be able to sign it.

Your signature doesn't need to be in cursive. It just has to be something that will be recognized as your own mark. You could sign all your checks with a drawing of a penis if you wanted to.


Starting ... NOW!
 
2014-07-28 09:42:20 AM  
Because I'll be damned if these kids have an easier childhood than I did!
 
2014-07-28 09:52:20 AM  
Printing != Writing
Not being able to write = illiteracy

Questions?
 
2014-07-28 10:11:59 AM  
It's not that hard to learn.  I think it's stupid to not teach it.
 
2014-07-28 10:35:31 AM  

vegaswench: Lastly, to continue the old-person rant, I wish we'd bring back the Oxford comma, two spaces after periods, and the Dewey Decimal System.


The Oxford comma should always be used when writing in a style that...uses the Oxford comma; two spaces after periods screw up automatic kerning functions, and the Dewey Decimal System is anglo-centric crap rather than being properly subject-neutral.
 
2014-07-28 10:38:44 AM  

specialkae: "It is a sort of rite of passage. I think there is artistic value in cursive ... also knowing how to read communication in cursive is something we should be able to do."

Oh.  When I write, I write in cursive, and while it's not the best penmanship, it is legible for those who know how to read it.  I unfortunately live in a house full of printers, sloppy block style and they can't decipher my writing any more than I can their printing.  We have a communications gap. Grocery lists are the worst, ick. Stepkid has taken to drawing hieroglyphics to what he wants brought home as I cannot read his bad, bad printing.

/thinks that cursive should continue to be taught and sloppy printers should have to take a course in at least how to read it.
//I still write letters and cards to friends and family, I would like for them to know who it's from
///refuses to print. I like the flow of cursive, but like email and texting better :)


Same here, I could never get my classmates who claimed they printed faster than cursive.

Although I'm in IT I still take notes by hand with cursive and transcribe my notes to word or e-mails. I find that it's easier for me to focus on what is said in the meeting and I can recall information much better later on.

However, I am looking to get this puppy soon though:  http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038828/review-livescribe-sky-wifi-sma r tpen-links-your-ink-and-audio-to-evernote.html
 
2014-07-28 11:11:35 AM  

doglover: Wangiss: if it creates confusion in lists

It does the opposite of this.


Generally I agree, but it does sometimes conflict with the other uses of the comma, such as explication:

"Your mother took a break to spend some "cuddle time" with the superintendent, Marv, and two other state employees."

In this case it is ambiguous whether Marv is the superintendent, or just another guy in the long list of men with whom your mother has spend "cuddle time."

So while I love, use, and even default to the Oxford comma, I also acknowledge that it has its limitations.
 
2014-07-28 11:14:26 AM  
Also, I acknowledge my error in using double- instead of single-quote marks in writing the example sentence above.
 
2014-07-28 11:28:07 AM  

gingerjet: The most useless thing I was taught in school?  Cursive writing.  The most useful thing I was taught in school?  Keyboarding.


Best place I learned keyboarding? Playing on a combat-heavy text-based MUD.

/can type 90 wpm.
//110 when the adrenaline kicks in.
 
2014-07-28 11:31:36 AM  
Because people still write in cursive and it pays to be able to communicate with your peers without having to call your mommy to read a passage to you.
 
2014-07-28 12:07:50 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Because people still write in cursive and it pays to be able to communicate with your peers without having to call your mommy to read a passage to you.


I rarely write in cursive. People curse when they try to read it.  Standard print is more legible than Foghorn Leghorn's drunken scrawls, as I call my cursive writing.
 
2014-07-28 12:59:34 PM  
img3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-07-28 01:01:29 PM  
lh6.googleusercontent.com

I take notes faster than you.
 
2014-07-28 02:53:03 PM  
For most kids, I'd say it's not needed. For some, however, I was surprised to learn that it's a pretty effective way to help kids who are having difficulty learning how to write. Mine, for example, has had some speech and language setbacks. She has problems reading and communicating, though she does fine with other subjects (if not better than most) once those barriers are removed. Her writing in the 2nd grade was noticeably worse than the other kids her age. It was nearly unreadable. The special ed teacher who works with her suggested they start cursive with her early, and I thought she was nuts. Turns out, it worked. Her print is still completely unreadable, but her cursive is better than most adults.

I still have no idea how this works, but it did.
 
2014-07-28 03:12:25 PM  

supayoda: For most kids, I'd say it's not needed. For some, however, I was surprised to learn that it's a pretty effective way to help kids who are having difficulty learning how to write. Mine, for example, has had some speech and language setbacks. She has problems reading and communicating, though she does fine with other subjects (if not better than most) once those barriers are removed. Her writing in the 2nd grade was noticeably worse than the other kids her age. It was nearly unreadable. The special ed teacher who works with her suggested they start cursive with her early, and I thought she was nuts. Turns out, it worked. Her print is still completely unreadable, but her cursive is better than most adults.

I still have no idea how this works, but it did.


Kids are more logical than we think, and usually just because their different choices make us prejudge them to be irrational (as with political opponents). But when you tell a kid to do something, if you tell them why they'll be more likely to agree to do it. They'll also be more likely to remember to do it. Connecting the ideas in their head makes everything seem like the world has a chance of being sensible, which is something we're all desperate to believe. So when the pen going from left to right moves without leaving the paper, which side the letter starts on is never called into question. Dyslexia doesn't have as much chance to manifest itself. And the slant of the letters has to remain consistent, which is something a kid can gauge by his or her self.
 
2014-07-28 04:44:00 PM  

JoieD'Zen: Because despite what you think ITmitter, some of the old school skills are nice.


We can't afford "nice."  There's just not enough classroom time.
 
2014-07-28 04:52:43 PM  

Guilty_plea_bargain: The most useless thing I was taught in school. Algebra.


I'm a graphic designer. I use Algebra to measure paint for canvases and ink for printing. I also use geometry for creating 3d models from engineering drawings. I use my english and writing courses for proposals and contracts, as well as typography. I also use information from history and mythology courses in my designs.

It's good I was taught these "useless" subjects, or I couldn't do my job as effectively.
/never know what you're going to need
//so take all you can
 
2014-07-28 05:12:08 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: JoieD'Zen: Because despite what you think ITmitter, some of the old school skills are nice.

We can't afford "nice."  There's just not enough classroom time.


Than fix the cause instead of making it worse by dropping skills.

We dropped cursive, wood/metal shop, home-ec, my junior high had driving classes.

School is supposed to give you it only life skills but things like wood and metal shop gave you the opportunity to understand how things were made and not just show up from China in a container.

Not teaching these varied skills not only stunt the brain by not having fine motor skills, it's stunting their view of the world and how it works.

We are regressing into an aristocracy of wealth where a good well rounded education where foreign languages, music, art, handwork, etc are only available to the children of the rich and those who can't afford it are stuck in cyclical poverty because they don't have access to that level of education.

Once upon a time the GOP valued public education as an investment in good citizenship. No longer. They want ignorant dupes to maintain their voter base.
 
2014-07-28 05:35:16 PM  

lohphat: Once upon a time the GOP valued public education as an investment in good citizenship. No longer. They want ignorant dupes to maintain their voter base.


The GOP isn't running the schools. The schools are as funded as ever and have more in-school time than ever. The decline isn't partisan.
 
2014-07-28 05:48:46 PM  

Wangiss: The schools are as funded as ever and have more in-school time than ever.


Why does everyone who makes this argument think that nothing ever changes within the systems that are being funded? The number of kids, number of teachers, administrative costs, building, fuel and maintenance costs, insurance costs, security costs, inflation... since when has ANY of that stayed static?

The numbers don't matter. The system does.
 
2014-07-28 05:53:49 PM  

rewind2846: Wangiss: The schools are as funded as ever and have more in-school time than ever.

Why does everyone who makes this argument think that nothing ever changes within the systems that are being funded? The number of kids, number of teachers, administrative costs, building, fuel and maintenance costs, insurance costs, security costs, inflation... since when has ANY of that stayed static?

The numbers don't matter. The system does.


I think we agree on that.
 
2014-07-28 06:00:05 PM  

lohphat: We dropped cursive ... (The GOP wants) ignorant dupes to maintain their voter base.


Um, OK.
 
2014-07-28 06:34:24 PM  

Wangiss: lohphat: Once upon a time the GOP valued public education as an investment in good citizenship. No longer. They want ignorant dupes to maintain their voter base.

The GOP isn't running the schools. The schools are as funded as ever and have more in-school time than ever. The decline isn't partisan.


But the lack of funding is. Time and time again it's the GOP blocking spending and refusing budgets while blocking taxes to pay for infrastructure, education, and spending bills they themselves initiated. See: blocking debt limit.

Our debt problem is due to putting the cost of civilization on a credit card for somebody else to pay off. With interest.

Once upon a time we built a country on a tax base instead of burdening our great grandchildren with the costs of loans.
 
2014-07-28 06:53:46 PM  
From what i understand, most schools are NOT teaching it, any longer.....  I think thats the newstory, not vice versa.
 
2014-07-28 07:25:35 PM  

lohphat: Wangiss: lohphat: Once upon a time the GOP valued public education as an investment in good citizenship. No longer. They want ignorant dupes to maintain their voter base.

The GOP isn't running the schools. The schools are as funded as ever and have more in-school time than ever. The decline isn't partisan.

But the lack of funding is. Time and time again it's the GOP blocking spending and refusing budgets while blocking taxes to pay for infrastructure, education, and spending bills they themselves initiated. See: blocking debt limit.

Our debt problem is due to putting the cost of civilization on a credit card for somebody else to pay off. With interest.

Once upon a time we built a country on a tax base instead of burdening our great grandchildren with the costs of loans.


That has nothing to do with the very well funded school system.
 
2014-07-28 07:26:55 PM  
Also, are you for or against government debt? You might want to make up your mind.
 
2014-07-28 08:10:58 PM  

lohphat: Wangiss: lohphat: Once upon a time the GOP valued public education as an investment in good citizenship. No longer. They want ignorant dupes to maintain their voter base.

The GOP isn't running the schools. The schools are as funded as ever and have more in-school time than ever. The decline isn't partisan.

But the lack of funding is. Time and time again it's the GOP blocking spending and refusing budgetswhile blocking taxes to pay for infrastructure, education, and spending bills they themselves initiated. See: blocking debt limit.

Our debt problem is due to putting the cost of civilization on a credit card for somebody else to pay off. With interest.

Once upon a time we built a country on a tax base instead of burdening our great grandchildren with the costs of loans.


When was that?  America has run up its debt more years than not.  What is relatively new is the Reagan doctrine of increasing spending while at the same time cutting taxes, on the theory that the tax cuts will spur so much growth that it will more than make up for the loss.  An amendment to that is the Bush doctrine of cutting taxes even during times of war because, uh, reasons.  All rubbish of course.  Obama hasn't helped either.  While there haven't been major tax cuts under him, there haven't been new sources of revenue either.  His doctrine of increased spending to end a recession is more economically accepted than either the Reagan or Bush doctrines and unlike those, it seems to have actually worked.  Still, the debt has skyrocketed.
 
2014-07-28 08:59:15 PM  
Because it's right and proper.  Just asking the question proves your stupidity.
 
2014-07-29 12:05:00 AM  

supayoda: For most kids, I'd say it's not needed. For some, however, I was surprised to learn that it's a pretty effective way to help kids who are having difficulty learning how to write. Mine, for example, has had some speech and language setbacks. She has problems reading and communicating, though she does fine with other subjects (if not better than most) once those barriers are removed. Her writing in the 2nd grade was noticeably worse than the other kids her age. It was nearly unreadable. The special ed teacher who works with her suggested they start cursive with her early, and I thought she was nuts. Turns out, it worked. Her print is still completely unreadable, but her cursive is better than most adults.

I still have no idea how this works, but it did.


Multimodal learning. The bottom line is, we don't all learn the same way. It's like looking at some object. Then looking at it again when it is shifted 90 degrees, then looking at it again when it is shifted 90 degrees on an orthogonal axis. Sometimes, a different perspective is required, sometimes multiple perspectives are required. Education is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.
 
2014-07-29 12:44:56 AM  

Wangiss: That has nothing to do with the very well funded school system.


Teachers making $40K a year, no money for arts, languages, shop classes, student loan and book cartel rackets are not a "very well funded school system".
 
2014-07-29 12:46:23 AM  

Persnickety: Obama hasn't helped either.  While there haven't been major tax cuts under him, there haven't been new sources of revenue either.


Since when is Obama responsible for a do-nothing obstructionist congress who would rather burn down the house than fund its upkeep?
 
2014-07-29 01:04:06 AM  

MylesHeartVodak: Let us know how long you have been applying for a job.  Seriously.

Cursive writing is the most primitive form of "sophisticated" writing.  The most basic form of hand written communications.

You are only capable of printing block characters. 
Good luck there, Sparky.   You fail to be able to actually write a resume by hand.  All of your references are lies.  Thanks.

Please, brag to us about your new-hire at Google or Microsoft without basic skills.  Please do, with references.

Written language skills my be on their way out, but they are still evidence of your basic literacy.  Fail is fail, thanks for playing.



Why would you think Microsoft or Google would even accept a hand-written resume?  They want all resumes to be submitted electronically, of course.  Hell, even if they did accept handwritten resumes, they would greatly prefer printing, because it's much easier to OCR.
 
2014-07-29 03:42:12 AM  

lohphat: Wangiss: That has nothing to do with the very well funded school system.

Teachers making $40K a year, no money for arts, languages, shop classes, student loan and book cartel rackets are not a "very well funded school system".


We pay teachers as much as many other countries that have better educational systems that we. On top of that, the money that, in your and my opinion,  should be going to teachers is skimmed off by superfluous administrators. It's not uncommon for a superintendent of schools to "earn" $200k or more in a year. The money is being taxed; the money is being spent. It's just not going where it should because of horrible bureaucracy. The solution to that is neither more tax nor more funding. The solution is to better manage the money already in the system.
 
2014-07-29 03:59:41 AM  
 
2014-07-29 04:28:02 AM  

lohphat: Wangiss:
We pay teachers as much as many other countries that have better educational systems that we.

WAT?

What Teacher Pay Looks Like In The Rest Of The World

US high school teachers are paid 72 percent as much as all college graduates in the workforce, while in other OECD countries, that figure is 90 percent (Exhibit 35).


I meant exactly what I wrote. Japan, Singapore, and Hong Kong have better educational systems than we do and they're charmingly omitted from your contrived "percent of college graduate pay" metric. Portugal also ranks above the US on your list, but their school system is awful. Teacher pay isn't a consistent indicator of school system efficacy. More proof is within our own country. California has the highest teacher pay in America. Their educational system sucks! I know from first-hand experience, but the metrics are also perfectly dismal.

And yet I'm perfectly happy to help you increase teacher pay if I an get some concessions. Let's use the money already in the system. I love woodworking; I'll be happy to teach that for a few hours a week. Let's fire some administrators and sell some expensive administrative office buildings downtown. The administrators can lease an office in the suburbs where they live anyway and have 9' drop-ceilings like normal office people. They can have reasonable salaries that don't go over four times teacher pay. There's much more we can do with money already in the system as well, if the will exists.
 
2014-07-29 05:02:15 AM  

slotz: We're in the in-between time.  Not knowing how to read cursive is still an indicator that you're insufficiently educated.  Not knowing how to write cursive....Well, you can get away with it, but a person's handwriting is still very much suggestive of the extent of their intellectual development.  Even software engineers have to present on white boards in the conference rooms, so you'd better be able to at least PRINT like an adult and not a retarded child. Filling out an employment application in sloppy letters still indicates sloppy thinking, like it or not.

It will take time for all this to change.  A LONG time.


Ever seen a prescription? Doctors must be MORONS.
 
2014-07-29 05:02:19 AM  

Wangiss: California has the highest teacher pay in America. Their educational system sucks! I know from first-hand experience, but the metrics are also perfectly dismal.


California's three-tiered university system has produced more Nobel laureates than any other state system on the planet.

California also has the highest teacher to student ratio in the country.

As a native Californian, I benefitted from a functional school system in the 70s and 80s until the system was sabotaged by overloading classrooms, cutting budgets for the arts, shop, languages. Summer school was something to look forward to with a huge array of interesting subjects to choose from to inspire young kids, like flight ground school.

Then the CA lottery happened and the GOP attitude was "You're getting lottery proceeds so you don't need as much budget." Prop 13 ate into tax revenues to fund state services, and voter mandated spending via ballot initiatives were met by stonewalling conservatives not wanting to raise revenues thus plunging the state into debt. We had to issue bonds for maintenance projects. Insanity. If we had tax increases to match ballot initiatives the feedback loop would have discouraged more spending by making the voters think twice. Without e feedback loop, it was like kids with a credit card.

Just like the GOP sabotaging the USPS pension funding then pointing and saying "See!? Government can't do anything right!"

It took changing the state constitution to eliminate the 2/3 legislative majority to raise taxes thereby breaking the minority GOP hostage standoff and electing a fiscally responsible Democrat to start to fix the crises of 30 years of GOP malfeasance.

Jerry Brown has actually started to turn the ship around.

It was a golden moment when Meg Whitman during the election said that CA was great 30 years ago when she came to the state. Guess who was governor then?
 
2014-07-29 05:32:41 AM  
lohphat, California is the most populous state in the union by almost 50%. It has the most people, the most cars, the most fast food restaurants, the most geniuses, the most idiots, the most Nobel laureates, and the most developmentally disabled individuals. I hope any degree you hold isn't in anything analytical.

You keep trying to defend California. I graduated there, too, and I have no reason to say anything untruthful about my beloved home state.
If teacher-to-student ratio were an END and not a MEANS you would have something. But despite having the highest ratio it still under-performs.
I agree completely that the system was sabotaged. I agree that the lottery-funding concept was absolute trash.
If you're curious, I'm not GOP; I'm a progressive minarchist. We probably agree on a lot more than you think. Don't paint me red.

Wouldn't you like to see the budget managed better? Do you agree that the salaries and headcount of administrators are too high?
 
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