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(Waco Tribune)   Sure our fertilizer plant blew up but hey it's not our fault people died because you have poorly-trained first responders   (wacotrib.com) divider line 81
    More: Asinine  
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6349 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2014 at 6:05 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-27 04:21:06 PM
You know who else blamed the victims in Waco?
 
2014-07-27 04:52:14 PM
Not their fault that a school and nursing home weren't further away, either.  And it's the fault of the maker of the golf cart int he warehouse, too.  And an unknown guy who may have started the fire.  Or in the words of the City's attorney:

"The manufacturers of the fertilizer that blew up half of the town of West, killed 15 people, injured hundreds and destroyed homes and businesses have blamed the explosion on the West Volunteer Fire Department, a golf cart manufacturer and an imaginary criminal person," Harrison said. "Some things really just don't need any comment."
 
2014-07-27 05:17:47 PM
God, I love the unregulated free market.
 
2014-07-27 05:43:57 PM
It's not unusual for rapists to blame their victims
 
2014-07-27 05:49:09 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: It's not unusual for rapists to blame their victims


Did you see what West was wearing?  That town was BEGGING for it.
 
2014-07-27 06:08:39 PM
This is Rick Perry's Benghazi.
 
2014-07-27 06:10:53 PM
Well they could always pay for non-volunteers if they want.
 
2014-07-27 06:14:37 PM
What a bunch of farking scum.
 
2014-07-27 06:15:03 PM
This is where the pitchforks and torches would come in handy.
 
2014-07-27 06:15:17 PM
Meanwhile, other companies that have high-risk chemical facilities have their own industrial fire brigades and rescue teams. Even the Disney "company town" in Florida has its own fire-rescue agency (yes, I know it is not exactly the same as an in-plant fire brigade).
 
2014-07-27 06:15:52 PM
Or maybe Texas should subsidize that training for it's public safety volunteers rather than making them rely on scraps from the federal NFA-SAFER grants, and whatever they can get from fish fries and bake sales.
 
2014-07-27 06:15:55 PM
this is just the market correcting. It's natural.
 
2014-07-27 06:16:07 PM
See, those unnecessary zoning laws and regulations are why the town blew up! They need to relax regulations and zoning to make sure nursing homes and schools are not too close to a privately owned company that may or may not be following good safety practices!

/wait
 
2014-07-27 06:17:08 PM
There always seem to be whackos in Waco.
 
2014-07-27 06:18:00 PM

gnosis301: What a bunch of farking scum.

attorneys.

FTFY
 
2014-07-27 06:18:15 PM

Unobtanium: Meanwhile, other companies that have high-risk chemical facilities have their own industrial fire brigades and rescue teams. Even the Disney "company town" in Florida has its own fire-rescue agency (yes, I know it is not exactly the same as an in-plant fire brigade).


Plant Emergency Operation Teams run the gamut from a few people who have had a dozen or so hours instruction in fire suppression and basic first aid as a side to their job, to full time professional emergency workers hired from fire/EMS academic classes and full-time paid fire departments - like Dupont Chemicals.

Many companies contract private fire departments and ambulance services (Rural/Metro)

Of course, this is Texas. The land of libertarian milk and honey. If the people didn't want to be exploded, they should have moved away from the job creators.
 
2014-07-27 06:18:50 PM

hardinparamedic: Or maybe Texas should subsidize that training for it's public safety volunteers rather than making them rely on scraps from the federal NFA-SAFER grants, and whatever they can get from fish fries and bake sales.


Fill the boot!
 
2014-07-27 06:19:11 PM
img.fark.net
The Volunteer Fire Department wasn't properly prepared to deal with this.
 
2014-07-27 06:23:09 PM

hardinparamedic: Of course, this is Texas. The land of libertarian milk and honey. If the people didn't want to be exploded, they should have moved away from the job creators.


Periodic explosions are part of the natural life cycle of job creation. Some job creators produce seeds of innovation that can only germinate after exposure to direct heat and unlabeled chemicals. Some liberal states have taken to creating artificial explosions periodically in order to prevent a larger one down the road, but in doing so end up with saplings whose boughs can't support the number of jobs America needs. Texans understand that just as men should marry women, letting fertilizer plants explode is just how God designed nature to work.
 
2014-07-27 06:24:39 PM

ElLoco: hardinparamedic: Or maybe Texas should subsidize that training for it's public safety volunteers rather than making them rely on scraps from the federal NFA-SAFER grants, and whatever they can get from fish fries and bake sales.

Fill the boot!


Oh no. Please give to that. Muscular dystrophy sucks.
 
2014-07-27 06:25:17 PM
Bankers who lie, cheat and steal and nearly brought our country to financial ruin get off scott free. Men and women who risk their lives for others get sued.

Seems fair.
 
2014-07-27 06:26:48 PM
When they built the place in the 1950s it was way off in the distance, just in case it blew up. The fact it didn't blow up after 60 years of operation would surprise the designers. The fact that people decided to build closer might also surprise people.

The fact that it only killed 15 people should surprise everyone. And it killed mostly people who ran toward the fire, despite the sensible thing probably being that everyone runs if the fire gets bigger than an extinguisher.

As far as a sprinkler system, what happens if you try to extinguish burning ammonia nitrate with water? I know some of it will get cold as the water dissolves it, but the aqueous solution doesn't act like water, boil it and it's supposed to release nitrous oxide. We need Mythbusters to dabble with this one. In a quarry, with a pallet of ammonia nitrate.
 
2014-07-27 06:27:23 PM

hardinparamedic: ElLoco: hardinparamedic: Or maybe Texas should subsidize that training for it's public safety volunteers rather than making them rely on scraps from the federal NFA-SAFER grants, and whatever they can get from fish fries and bake sales.

Fill the boot!

Oh no. Please give to that. Muscular dystrophy sucks.


I'm former VFD. I fill in and help local VFDs short on people, and accost motorists at intersections.

Fear mah boot.
 
2014-07-27 06:28:44 PM

Gyrfalcon: gnosis301: What a bunch of farking scum.attorneys.

FTFY


Why are you repeating yourself?
 
2014-07-27 06:35:48 PM

red5ish: [img.fark.net image 610x335]
The Volunteer Fire Department wasn't properly prepared to deal with this.


So in a town that doesn't even want to pay for a full-fledged FD, we're going to put the volunteer organization out of business too.  BRILLIANT!
 
2014-07-27 06:37:43 PM

doyner: So in a town that doesn't even want to pay for a full-fledged FD, we're going to put the volunteer organization out of business too.  BRILLIANT!


Volunteer doesn't (Usually) mean untrained idiot. Most fire departments in the United States have some form of volunteer or auxillary program And 70% of all US Fire Departments are volunteer in nature. Their quality, in the end, tends to depend on how much support they get from their state oversight agencies.
 
2014-07-27 06:38:09 PM
I'm commenting on the thread above this one. If I must be a TF subscriber to comment in a thread, why is it visible on the Main page?
 
2014-07-27 06:42:24 PM
bingethinker: I'm commenting on the thread above this one. If I must be a TF subscriber to comment in a thread, why is it visible on the Main page?

it's just a carrot and a stick
 
2014-07-27 06:47:13 PM
These are you choices for heroes, America

A. Corporations
B. Firefighters and EMTs

Choose one. Choose wisely

Offer not valid in Texas
 
2014-07-27 06:52:39 PM

JoieD'Zen: You know who else blamed the victims in Waco?


Hitler?
 
2014-07-27 06:54:09 PM
FarkaDark: JoieD'Zen: You know who else blamed the victims in Waco?

Hitler?


Hitler is a saint!
 
2014-07-27 06:58:06 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Not their fault that a school and nursing home weren't further away, either.  And it's the fault of the maker of the golf cart int he warehouse, too.  And an unknown guy who may have started the fire.  Or in the words of the City's attorney:

"The manufacturers of the fertilizer that blew up half of the town of West, killed 15 people, injured hundreds and destroyed homes and businesses have blamed the explosion on the West Volunteer Fire Department, a golf cart manufacturer and an imaginary criminal person," Harrison said. "Some things really just don't need any comment."


Nevertheless, it seems the manufacturers were naturals in the fertilizer business.
 
2014-07-27 06:58:42 PM

wildcardjack: When they built the place in the 1950s it was way off in the distance, just in case it blew up. The fact it didn't blow up after 60 years of operation would surprise the designers. The fact that people decided to build closer might also surprise people.


Why should it surprise anyone that people built closer?  There was no public disclosure of what chemicals were used/stored there, let alone the quantity.  Not only no general public disclosure, even local LEOs/disaster-planning/etc weren't able to know what or how much was stored there.

Caveat emptor is what you're going with?  How?
 
2014-07-27 07:11:27 PM
I believe they need to amend the lawsuit and add a one-armed man.
 
2014-07-27 07:14:59 PM

Lawnchair: wildcardjack: When they built the place in the 1950s it was way off in the distance, just in case it blew up. The fact it didn't blow up after 60 years of operation would surprise the designers. The fact that people decided to build closer might also surprise people.

Why should it surprise anyone that people built closer?  There was no public disclosure of what chemicals were used/stored there, let alone the quantity.  Not only no general public disclosure, even local LEOs/disaster-planning/etc weren't able to know what or how much was stored there.

Caveat emptor is what you're going with?  How?


The original design engineers weren't civil regulatory prognosticators. The original site locator probably picked a place that was convenient to the gas supply without being too far from US Route 77. Of course, the businessmen of that era were of a different stripe, they would ask "what happens if the worst happens" and actually care about it. Now they'd just figure out how to compartmentalize liability. It'll turn out to be owned by a company that turned out the be owned by a Bulgarian firm that hired this other firm to operate it, but if you ever got the Bulgarian documents you'd find that it was owned by an Isle of Wight corporation that is itself owned by the company hired to operate things.

Where was I... Back when this was built, the town knew exactly what was going on. Then that generation died and everyone forgot they made a deal with a sleeping dragon.
 
2014-07-27 07:18:57 PM
The invisible hand did it.
 
2014-07-27 07:20:30 PM

red5ish: The Volunteer Fire Department wasn't properly prepared to deal with this.


Wow, I hadn't seen that pic before.

That's kinda spooky.
 
2014-07-27 07:21:55 PM

shower_in_my_socks: The invisible hand did it.


TAG! No backsies cause you can't see me!
 
2014-07-27 07:27:02 PM
Also named were several state and federal regulatory agencies which were at fault for not catching us violating regulations.
 
2014-07-27 07:30:18 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Also named were several state and federal regulatory agencies which were at fault for not catching us violating regulations.


You mean State and Federal Regulatory Agencies which are powerless in the State of Texas due to laws and public outcry against regulation, and which local law enforcement and corporate interests continually interfere with in the course of doing their duties? Including harassment, threats - both veiled and not so veiled, and even legal intimidation.

Regulators had known for years that the plant was unsafe. Any other state would have had the ability and desire to act on it.

Texas: The biggest libertarian paradise since Somalia.
 
2014-07-27 07:31:16 PM

Lawnchair: wildcardjack: When they built the place in the 1950s it was way off in the distance, just in case it blew up. The fact it didn't blow up after 60 years of operation would surprise the designers. The fact that people decided to build closer might also surprise people.

Why should it surprise anyone that people built closer?  There was no public disclosure of what chemicals were used/stored there, let alone the quantity.  Not only no general public disclosure, even local LEOs/disaster-planning/etc weren't able to know what or how much was stored there.

Caveat emptor is what you're going with?  How?


It's a *FERTILIZER PLANT*.

They are known to have a history of going *BOOM*:  Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer was the main ingredient in the bomb that blew up the Murrah builing in Oklahoma City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

Building anything close to a fertilizer plant is stupid, stupid, stupid.  Would you build close to a major oil refinery?  How about to a major fireworks factory?  Ammunition factory?  It's the same farkin' thing.
 
2014-07-27 07:35:41 PM

dittybopper: They are known to have a history of going *BOOM*:  Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer was the main ingredient in the bomb that blew up the Murrah builing in Oklahoma City.


Ammonium Nitrate mixed with Nitromethane (Top fuel) and Diesel Fuel and arranged in a shaped-charge pattern directed at the building blew up the Alfred C. Murrah federal building.

Fertilizer doesn't normally spontaneously go boom. It's an oxidizer. It has to react with something. Even then, it has to have a low order explosive to go boom (Blasting cap). You could set it on fire and it would just burn away.
 
2014-07-27 07:36:58 PM

zulius: Gyrfalcon: gnosis301: What a bunch of farking scum.attorneys.

FTFY

Why are you repeating yourself?


Clarification.
 
2014-07-27 07:38:25 PM

ChubbyTiger: This is where the pitchforks and torches would come in handy.


Considering what happened, I think we can leave the torches and just grab the pitchforks. Either way, it's a good idea.
 
2014-07-27 07:41:50 PM

Serious Black: doyner: MaudlinMutantMollusk: It's not unusual for rapists to blame their victims

Did you see what West was wearing?  That town was BEGGING for it.

If it had been a legitimate explosion, the town would have figured out a way to shut the whole thing down.


IF ONLY THERE were some way for the free market to sort this.

1) if they wont be regulated and inspected, dont zone them near ANYTHING
2) dont put out their fires
3) let them all die

TADA - problem solved. esp if they get sued out of buisness

/farkign texas - can you do ANYTHING right?
//well BBq ... there is that
/// and and richards and her amazing daughter and molly ivens and now wendy davis ...
//// ok texas, you arent as bad as floriduh
 
2014-07-27 07:43:41 PM

hardinparamedic: dittybopper: They are known to have a history of going *BOOM*:  Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer was the main ingredient in the bomb that blew up the Murrah builing in Oklahoma City.

Ammonium Nitrate mixed with Nitromethane (Top fuel) and Diesel Fuel and arranged in a shaped-charge pattern directed at the building blew up the Alfred C. Murrah federal building.

Fertilizer doesn't normally spontaneously go boom. It's an oxidizer. It has to react with something. Even then, it has to have a low order explosive to go boom (Blasting cap). You could set it on fire and it would just burn away.


Yes. which is why there have been numerous fertilizer plant explosions over the last 100 years or so.

Straight Ammonium Nitrate *CAN* spontaneously detonate under the right conditions.  It's relatively rare, but it can and does happen, and it's a known hazard for fertilizer production, storage and shipment.

Did you not look at my link?
 
2014-07-27 07:48:42 PM

dittybopper: Yes. which is why there have been numerous fertilizer plant explosions over the last 100 years or so.

Straight Ammonium Nitrate *CAN* spontaneously detonate under the right conditions.  It's relatively rare, but it can and does happen, and it's a known hazard for fertilizer production, storage and shipment.

Did you not look at my link?


And it is always caused by cross-contamination with another agent which acts as a fuel for the explosion to occur, or by a secondary explosion which sets a large stockpile off.

That was a known problem in the West, Texas plant. They had been repeatedly cited for both fire hazards, and improper storage of raw ammonium nitrate which promoted cross contamination.
 
2014-07-27 07:51:25 PM

hardinparamedic: Or maybe Texas should subsidize that training for it's public safety volunteers rather than making them rely on scraps from the federal NFA-SAFER grants, and whatever they can get from fish fries and bake sales.


Perhaps they fall into the "non-essential" services category in Texas. Seems rather obvious to me that they wouldn't be as important as some other things the state elected to address recently.
 
2014-07-27 07:52:00 PM
Wasn't there an earlier explosion in Texas where ships loaded with ammonium nitrate exploded?

(One was being towed away as it was about to blow. The tugboat crew sacrificed themselves to save others.)
 
2014-07-27 07:53:50 PM
What ever became of the asshat EMS/VFD guy who hid pipe bomb materials with an unknowing party??  I know he was arrested but is he still a "person of interest"?
 
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