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(The New York Times)   1/3 of our wealth has been lost. Thanks Obama AND Bush   (nytimes.com) divider line 136
    More: Sad, percentiles, income inequality  
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3075 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jul 2014 at 7:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-27 04:33:14 AM  
Reagan, subby. This crap started with Reagan.
 
2014-07-27 04:53:53 AM  
Did we lose it or was it taken through a systemic process?
 
2014-07-27 07:46:39 AM  
'Lost'?  I don't think that's the word.
 
2014-07-27 07:47:14 AM  
When home values fall the net worth of average households take a big hit.Film at 11.
 
2014-07-27 07:51:43 AM  
We get it, Times, he's black.
 
2014-07-27 07:53:30 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Reagan, subby. This crap started with Reagan.


Carter technically.

Oh, and don't forget this guy:

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-27 08:00:59 AM  

Target Builder: When home values fall the net worth of average households take a big hit.Film at 11.


The article notes it's not strictly housing related, as the housing bubble temporarily hid the decline at the median since 2001.

I'd tend to guess stagnant wages relative to inflation since '77 coupled with several cost of living expenses outstripping inflation in recent years would be the culprits.
 
2014-07-27 08:20:57 AM  
Glass-Steagal, yes, and other work done to gut the safeguards.  Another big problem has been the rise of modern-day millisecond trading, and the sweet, sweet deals the big boys have worked out for themselves.  They hire geniuses to write their algorithms, that run on computers that sit in chrome-and-glass buildings right in the very heart of Manhattan, and this is, effectively, a time machine for them, so that they can see just far enough ahead of everybody else that they can scoop off vast amounts of money and tell themselves this is all simply because they're so much smarter than everybody else, and therefore they deserve it.

The stock market is now a rigged game, and if you make any money from it, it's the crumbs that the big boys deign to let you have in exchange for keeping the complaints about their three-card monte muted.
 
2014-07-27 08:22:08 AM  
Check the couch cushions.

/got nuffin
 
2014-07-27 08:36:01 AM  
Stolen is a kind of lost.

Just as Mephistopheles can be a mouthful in Manhattan, saying that the wealth was transferred directly into the pockets of the .1% is a bit more unwieldy.
 
2014-07-27 09:01:10 AM  
Michael Moore took the money.
 
2014-07-27 09:15:13 AM  

Target Builder: When home values fall the net worth of average households take a big hit.Film at 11.


So, nothing to see here, move along citizen? Everything is going as planned?

/How many times have home values fallen, nationally?
 
2014-07-27 09:28:34 AM  
TFA says the Great Housing Bubble popped and turned into the Great Hosing. The damage was already being done. Folks were taking out second mortgages based on the increased valuation of their homes and hid it for a while. The taking of middle class wealth started with Reagan's huge increase in military spending/Trickle-Down BS and was worsened by the Bush wars/tax cuts for the wealthy.
 
2014-07-27 09:31:28 AM  
www.drboblog.com
/Coming soon to an American city near you.
 
KIA
2014-07-27 09:35:15 AM  
Whether you call it "irrational overexuberance" or "tulip mania" the bottom line is: people made a lot of really bad decisions with their money and are now looking to blame anyone other than themselves.

They over-bid and over paid for houses they couldn't afford, driving more, let's say, well-balanced, individuals clean out of the market.  They wanted to live lifestyles of conspicuous consumption, big cars, fancy vacations, dining out 7 days a week.  To do that, they indebted themselves beyond all reasonable measure and now, when their creditors want to get paid back, they want to piss and moan about how unfair it all is.

Speaking on behalf of the people who lived within their means, didn't have the fancy vacations, didn't go out to eat every day of the week, paid our bills, saved our money and waited for the market to return to a more normal state: FARK YOU.  You got EXACTLY what you bargained for.

Now step aside and let other people have their turn.
 
2014-07-27 09:39:02 AM  

KIA: Whether you call it "irrational overexuberance" or "tulip mania" the bottom line is: people made a lot of really bad decisions with their money and are now looking to blame anyone other than themselves.

They over-bid and over paid for houses they couldn't afford, driving more, let's say, well-balanced, individuals clean out of the market.  They wanted to live lifestyles of conspicuous consumption, big cars, fancy vacations, dining out 7 days a week.  To do that, they indebted themselves beyond all reasonable measure and now, when their creditors want to get paid back, they want to piss and moan about how unfair it all is.

Speaking on behalf of the people who lived within their means, didn't have the fancy vacations, didn't go out to eat every day of the week, paid our bills, saved our money and waited for the market to return to a more normal state: FARK YOU.  You got EXACTLY what you bargained for.

Now step aside and let other people have their turn.


You realize that a lot of people who paid their mortgage on time every month ended up underwater when housing prices bottomed out, right?

And that as a member of this economic *system* you aren't isolated from the drop in GDP, consumption, productivity, hiring and wage stagnation?

Your attitude isn't helpful, and it makes me think you'd act in exactly the same reckless, selfish sort of ways that the people who got us in this mess acted.  So... how about no.  You don't get a turn.
 
2014-07-27 09:40:35 AM  

KIA: Speaking on behalf of the people who lived within their means, didn't have the fancy vacations, didn't go out to eat every day of the week, paid our bills, saved our money and waited for the market to return to a more normal state: FARK YOU.  You got EXACTLY what you bargained for.


What about the people who did those things and still got hosed?
 
KIA
2014-07-27 09:44:19 AM  
BeesNuts: You realize that a lot of people who paid their mortgage on time every month ended up underwater when housing prices bottomed out, right?

Not if they bought before the mania, they didn't.  And don't try to tell me they had no idea the market was super-heated with the "buy now or get priced out forever" crapola. They knew exactly what they were doing.

And that as a member of this economic *system* you aren't isolated from the drop in GDP, consumption, productivity, hiring and wage stagnation?

Drop from... the giant super-heated bubble?  It didn't drop from 2004 numbers, friend.

Your attitude isn't helpful

In what way would my, or anyone's attitude be "helpful" and to what end?  Oh, right.  In the narrative that everything is the fault of the banks or the government or the system or anything other than their own damn fault.  Psh.
 
KIA
2014-07-27 09:44:58 AM  

MasterAdkins: What about the people who did those things and still got hosed?


Which people are those?
 
2014-07-27 09:49:05 AM  

KIA: BeesNuts: You realize that a lot of people who paid their mortgage on time every month ended up underwater when housing prices bottomed out, right?

Not if they bought before the mania, they didn't.  And don't try to tell me they had no idea the market was super-heated with the "buy now or get priced out forever" crapola. They knew exactly what they were doing.

And that as a member of this economic *system* you aren't isolated from the drop in GDP, consumption, productivity, hiring and wage stagnation?

Drop from... the giant super-heated bubble?  It didn't drop from 2004 numbers, friend.

Your attitude isn't helpful

In what way would my, or anyone's attitude be "helpful" and to what end?  Oh, right.  In the narrative that everything is the fault of the banks or the government or the system or anything other than their own damn fault.  Psh.


Ok.  Whatever you say, friend.  You got yours, fark everyone else I guess.  You can pretend you're morally and intellectual superior to people if you like.  Not like it actually harms anyone but yourself in the end.  But I suppose I mistook your purpose in sharing with trying to actually add something to the conversation, and not just flag yourself as an inconsiderate snot.

Sorry.
 
2014-07-27 09:49:43 AM  
www.forest2market.com

Thanks Obama
 
2014-07-27 09:54:22 AM  
Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that
 
2014-07-27 09:54:42 AM  
The only thing that has any chance of fixing this is more tax cuts for the rich and eliminating the long term capital gains tax.

That will unleash the power of the job creators to use their incredible inherent talents to sprinkle us commoners with that trickle of wealth.
 
2014-07-27 09:55:31 AM  

raerae1980: Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that


It's actually pretty easy to explain with one word: Reaganomics.
 
2014-07-27 09:56:41 AM  

BeesNuts: KIA: BeesNuts: You realize that a lot of people who paid their mortgage on time every month ended up underwater when housing prices bottomed out, right?

Not if they bought before the mania, they didn't.  And don't try to tell me they had no idea the market was super-heated with the "buy now or get priced out forever" crapola. They knew exactly what they were doing.

And that as a member of this economic *system* you aren't isolated from the drop in GDP, consumption, productivity, hiring and wage stagnation?

Drop from... the giant super-heated bubble?  It didn't drop from 2004 numbers, friend.

Your attitude isn't helpful

In what way would my, or anyone's attitude be "helpful" and to what end?  Oh, right.  In the narrative that everything is the fault of the banks or the government or the system or anything other than their own damn fault.  Psh.

Ok.  Whatever you say, friend.  You got yours, fark everyone else I guess.  You can pretend you're morally and intellectual superior to people if you like.  Not like it actually harms anyone but yourself in the end.  But I suppose I mistook your purpose in sharing with trying to actually add something to the conversation, and not just flag yourself as an inconsiderate snot.

Sorry.


Less snarky now.  Do you think the only impact the housing bubble had was on housing prices?  It seems like that's what you're saying.  It also seems like you expect consumers to have perfect knowledge.  When every financial planner was suggesting real estate as a safe long-term investment, when it's *been* the best long-term investment for decades, then it's understandable when large segments of the population (specifically ones who were already looking to buy a house) buy into the bubble.

We go to professionals and experts for advice about things we don't understand.  You might as well blame Cobalt owners who died from the faulty ignition for not being able to fully inspect their car for safety issues in their own garage.

/full disclosure I didn't buy a house during the bubble and haven't been dramatically or directly effected by that bubble
//But you're a blind man if you see only the direct impacts on the housing market.
///An underpaid blind man, at that.
 
KIA
2014-07-27 09:56:57 AM  

BeesNuts: trying to actually add something to the conversation


What kind of conversation is that?  Are you saying "get with the blaming others program or get out?"
 
2014-07-27 09:57:47 AM  

Chummer45: raerae1980: Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that

It's actually pretty easy to explain with one word: Reaganomics.


I was channeling O'Reilly.


/sorry
 
2014-07-27 10:07:04 AM  
"The inflation-adjusted net worth for the typical household was $87,992 in 2003. Ten years later, it was only $56,335, or a 36 percent decline,"


That is an absolutely farking staggering figure.

Meanwhile, 40% of this country's wealth remains in the hands of 1% of its population; (pre Great Depression levels).  If we don't get a Roosevelt caliber leader soon, this situation is going to go full Robespierre.
 
2014-07-27 10:08:50 AM  
So the point is we should finally ditch Reaganomics and institute a progressive percolate-up economic strategy? You guys realize that means removing Republicans from power and changing a few rules, right?
 
2014-07-27 10:13:00 AM  

Notabunny: So the point is we should finally ditch Reaganomics and institute a progressive percolate-up economic strategy? You guys realize that means removing Republicans from power and changing a few rules, right?


Yes, which is why we're screwed.
 
2014-07-27 10:17:37 AM  

raerae1980: Chummer45: raerae1980: Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that

It's actually pretty easy to explain with one word: Reaganomics.

I was channeling O'Reilly.


/sorry



But unlike me, you can't explain how the tides work.  God does it.

I's just amusing to me how a lot of people look at Reagan's tenure with rose colored glasses, completely glossing over the fact that he instituted policies that has ultimately reversed most economic reform since the new deal, and caused a massive wealth transfer from the poor and middle classes to the ultrawealthy.
 
2014-07-27 10:17:54 AM  
Most Americans don't understand the concept of fractions, so 1/3 is good right? To put in a Fox News way Americans were 3 times better off than before Obama.
 
2014-07-27 10:19:19 AM  

Notabunny: So the point is we should finally ditch Reaganomics and institute a progressive percolate-up economic strategy? You guys realize that means removing Republicans from power and changing a few rules, right?



"There's no way to vote against the interest of Goldman-Sachs." -- Chris Hedges (a chicken little I don't normally care for, but he's goddamn right about this).

We've allowed an entrenched elite to get away with farking the middle class for so long that I think the only catalyst for legitimate change is going to be a seismic crash of the system.  Politicians have been putting band-aids on the problem for the past 30 years, while ignoring the festering tumor underneath it.

Sooner or later, rhetoric is not going to be enough.  And while I agree that the stupidity and intellectual apathy of some of my countrymen is disheartening (ie. talk radio gluttons/Foxnews sheeple), once the circumstances become bad enough, the principle violators of the public trust are going to get a good dose of revolution thrown in their faces.
This system is simply unsustainable.
 
2014-07-27 10:19:58 AM  

wotthefark: Most Americans don't understand the concept of fractions, so 1/3 is good right? To put in a Fox News way Americans were 3 times better off than before Obama.


1/3rd is like... half.

Half is almost 60%

60% is almost 75%.

So nearly 75% of people had their wealth grown!
 
2014-07-27 10:20:16 AM  

Chummer45: raerae1980: Chummer45: raerae1980: Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that

It's actually pretty easy to explain with one word: Reaganomics.

I was channeling O'Reilly.


/sorry


But unlike me, you can't explain how the tides work.  God does it.

I's just amusing to me how a lot of people look at Reagan's tenure with rose colored glasses, completely glossing over the fact that he instituted policies that has ultimately reversed most economic reform since the new deal, and caused a massive wealth transfer from the poor and middle classes to the ultrawealthy.


Why do you hate America? Some day you could be one of those hard working people who succeed. Maybe you aren't boot strappy enough. Maybe you are lazy and want to live off the government.
 
2014-07-27 10:20:45 AM  

raerae1980: Notabunny: So the point is we should finally ditch Reaganomics and institute a progressive percolate-up economic strategy? You guys realize that means removing Republicans from power and changing a few rules, right?

Yes, which is why we're screwed.


Pretty much. We did it in California with good results. But the problem for the rest of the country is finding a Democratic president who is a liberal, not a center-right corporatist to the right of Reagan. Good luck with that.
 
2014-07-27 10:21:21 AM  

contrapunctus: "The inflation-adjusted net worth for the typical household was $87,992 in 2003. Ten years later, it was only $56,335, or a 36 percent decline,"


That is an absolutely farking staggering figure.

Meanwhile, 40% of this country's wealth remains in the hands of 1% of its population; (pre Great Depression levels).  If we don't get a Roosevelt caliber leader soon, this situation is going to go full Robespierre.



Unfortunately, all signs point to Hillary 2016.  While she's certainly better than whatever libertarian teabagger sociopath the GOP puts up, she's not the type of candidate who will do even half of what is needed to level the playing field.

The problem is that our political coverage is all about the horse race and nonsensical bullshiat characterizations of policy positions.  So a politician like Elizabeth Warren, who promotes the most common sense legislation that would actually help the average American, is derided as a "radical liberal."  There was a time in this country when progressive policies weren't routinely derided and minimalized by the national media.
 
2014-07-27 10:27:14 AM  

contrapunctus: Notabunny: So the point is we should finally ditch Reaganomics and institute a progressive percolate-up economic strategy? You guys realize that means removing Republicans from power and changing a few rules, right?


"There's no way to vote against the interest of Goldman-Sachs." -- Chris Hedges (a chicken little I don't normally care for, but he's goddamn right about this).

We've allowed an entrenched elite to get away with farking the middle class for so long that I think the only catalyst for legitimate change is going to be a seismic crash of the system.  Politicians have been putting band-aids on the problem for the past 30 years, while ignoring the festering tumor underneath it.

Sooner or later, rhetoric is not going to be enough.  And while I agree that the stupidity and intellectual apathy of some of my countrymen is disheartening (ie. talk radio gluttons/Foxnews sheeple), once the circumstances become bad enough, the principle violators of the public trust are going to get a good dose of revolution thrown in their faces.
This system is simply unsustainable.


Not true. Trickle-down, supply-side Reaganomics has been the system for 30 years. Reaganomics will continue to be the system as long as the electorate can be convinced to vote against their own self interests. And simple Divide-And-Conquer campaign strategies make that unbelievably simple.
 
2014-07-27 10:28:49 AM  

KIA: Whether you call it "irrational overexuberance" or "tulip mania" the bottom line is: people made a lot of really bad decisions with their money and are now looking to blame anyone other than themselves.

They over-bid and over paid for houses they couldn't afford, driving more, let's say, well-balanced, individuals clean out of the market.  They wanted to live lifestyles of conspicuous consumption, big cars, fancy vacations, dining out 7 days a week.  To do that, they indebted themselves beyond all reasonable measure and now, when their creditors want to get paid back, they want to piss and moan about how unfair it all is.

Speaking on behalf of the people who lived within their means, didn't have the fancy vacations, didn't go out to eat every day of the week, paid our bills, saved our money and waited for the market to return to a more normal state: FARK YOU.  You got EXACTLY what you bargained for.

Now step aside and let other people have their turn.


There's a lot of truth to what you say, but (like most platitudes) it doesn't address practical realities.

The mantra of "work hard and save money" always holds true. But at any given time there has always been a spectrum of people and situations--some more responsible, some less. Or some more fortunate, some less. When the hurdles get higher, more people fall over.

There is little hard evidence that people overall are getting lazier and less responsible. There's a lot of evidence that automation and globalization are reducing the free-market need to compensate more of the labor force over the last 30-40 years--i.e., the hurdles to making a living have gotten higher. So more people are falling down. The housing bubble was more of a red herring. Being responsible has gone from being a way to get ahead to being a way just to stay even.

There is nothing inherently unjust or unfair about replacing obsolete human workers with a machines. But it creates a massive practical problem, to which SOME more (not full) wealth redistribution, especially from the super-rich, is probably inherent to the solution.

If everyone (even the rich) were getting poorer, this would be a bad idea. But the rich are doing astronomically well and receiving all the gains from growth. That's why cries of "socialism makes everyone poor" are full of shiat in this situation.

A bootstrappy person would probably tell obsolete workers to get some new skills and adapt. This is practically difficult to afford when you're unemployed. That's why a practical solution would be to tax some of those massive gains from automation and use it toward training programs for laborers, instead of just handing them cash. Is it "fair" to make the rich pay for peon job training? Maybe not, but when the alternative is unsustainable and probably catastrophic for everyone, notions of "fair" and "unfair" go out the window.
 
2014-07-27 10:30:22 AM  
Naah, it's my ex-wife's fault for picking up the phone and calling QVC several times a week whenever she saw stupid shiat she wanted, for signing up for $500/month cable/phone packages and ... okay, ultimately my fault for marrying someone who a.) couldn't bring income into the family and b.) couldn't do math and c.) believed that "budgets just don't work".

Single people: if you're not duly diligent before pairing up you might die poor.
 
2014-07-27 10:31:58 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: KIA: Whether you call it "irrational overexuberance" or "tulip mania" the bottom line is: people made a lot of really bad decisions with their money and are now looking to blame anyone other than themselves.

They over-bid and over paid for houses they couldn't afford, driving more, let's say, well-balanced, individuals clean out of the market.  They wanted to live lifestyles of conspicuous consumption, big cars, fancy vacations, dining out 7 days a week.  To do that, they indebted themselves beyond all reasonable measure and now, when their creditors want to get paid back, they want to piss and moan about how unfair it all is.

Speaking on behalf of the people who lived within their means, didn't have the fancy vacations, didn't go out to eat every day of the week, paid our bills, saved our money and waited for the market to return to a more normal state: FARK YOU.  You got EXACTLY what you bargained for.

Now step aside and let other people have their turn.

There's a lot of truth to what you say, but (like most platitudes) it doesn't address practical realities.

The mantra of "work hard and save money" always holds true. But at any given time there has always been a spectrum of people and situations--some more responsible, some less. Or some more fortunate, some less. When the hurdles get higher, more people fall over.

There is little hard evidence that people overall are getting lazier and less responsible. There's a lot of evidence that automation and globalization are reducing the free-market need to compensate more of the labor force over the last 30-40 years--i.e., the hurdles to making a living have gotten higher. So more people are falling down. The housing bubble was more of a red herring. Being responsible has gone from being a way to get ahead to being a way just to stay even.

There is nothing inherently unjust or unfair about replacing obsolete human workers with a machines. But it creates a massive practical problem, to which SOME more (not full) wealth redistribution, especially from the super-rich, is probably inherent to the solution.

If everyone (even the rich) were getting poorer, this would be a bad idea. But the rich are doing astronomically well and receiving all the gains from growth. That's why cries of "socialism makes everyone poor" are full of shiat in this situation.

A bootstrappy person would probably tell obsolete workers to get some new skills and adapt. This is practically difficult to afford when you're unemployed. That's why a practical solution would be to tax some of those massive gains from automation and use it toward training programs for laborers, instead of just handing them cash. Is it "fair" to make the rich pay for peon job training? Maybe not, but when the alternative is unsustainable and probably catastrophic for everyone, notions of "fair" and "unfair" go out the window.


Forget it. You cannot reach someone like KIA.
 
2014-07-27 10:32:41 AM  

wotthefark: Chummer45: raerae1980: Chummer45: raerae1980: Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that

It's actually pretty easy to explain with one word: Reaganomics.

I was channeling O'Reilly.


/sorry


But unlike me, you can't explain how the tides work.  God does it.

I's just amusing to me how a lot of people look at Reagan's tenure with rose colored glasses, completely glossing over the fact that he instituted policies that has ultimately reversed most economic reform since the new deal, and caused a massive wealth transfer from the poor and middle classes to the ultrawealthy.

Why do you hate America? Some day you could be one of those hard working people who succeed. Maybe you aren't boot strappy enough. Maybe you are lazy and want to live off the government.



That is true.  After all, taxing the ultrawealthy who benefit the most from our system is really just government theft from the most "productive" members of our society.  Because we all know that being super rich means that you are rich purely because of your talent and productivity.  We don't want to force these demigods among men to get upset about their taxes and withdraw from society. Heaven forbid.

Also, I'm in favor of much more funding going to public education, which is bad because those bootstrappy kids should have to pay their own way rather than living off the government teat.  If they want an education, they can pay for it through indentured servitude or something.  After all, why should I have to pay for OTHER people to have their kids educated?  How does that benefit ME?

And we haven't seen injustice or oppression like when Obama let the top tax bracket go from 35% to 39.6% since the Holocaust.
 
2014-07-27 10:34:12 AM  

fluffy2097: wotthefark: Most Americans don't understand the concept of fractions, so 1/3 is good right? To put in a Fox News way Americans were 3 times better off than before Obama.

1/3rd is like... half.

Half is almost 60%

60% is almost 75%.

So nearly 75% of people had their wealth grown!


Some people would say you are correct. You don't need a Phd in economics to understand why America is #1. In fact a Phd in economics is bad as ultra liberals will teach things like Keynesian economics and the Alinsky way of doing things.
It's why Americans are better off going to more right wing colleges like Liberty University. There "π" = 3. No need for that other bit it's too confusing and a liberal mindset. The Bible says π  = 3. See it's simple, the answers are in Genesis. Next you'll be saying economics is evolutionary, well God invented economics with slaves. Do you want to be a slave or do you want to be one of God's chosen people?

You know who invented algebra? The Muslims. That's why we don't need it. Clearly it's a test from God who wants you to be wealthy (just tithe). You don't need algebra. You need Reaganomics. God loved Reagan he doesn't love Islam.

\ the sad part is I could write this satire all day long and children are being indoctrinated with home-schooling like this everyday.
 
2014-07-27 10:34:28 AM  
Chummer45:

The problem is that our political coverage is all about the horse race and nonsensical bullshiat characterizations of policy positions.  So a politician like Elizabeth Warren, who promotes the most common sense legislation that would actually help the average American, is derided as a "radical liberal."  There was a time in this country when progressive policies weren't routinely derided and minimalized by the national media.

The terrifying thing about all of this is that if you study European history, you realize that a good portion of the social horrors experienced over there were almost always preceded by an economic disaster.

Germany didn't arrive at Reichstag/racial hatred by some magical convergence of events we don't understand.  Neither did the Balkans.  Economic disaster has a way of vomiting up charismatic psychopaths who promise to:

A.) Fix the current problem.
B.) Rid the country of the internal population responsible for its ills (usually a marginalized group).

In other words, don't be surprised if a fearful America votes in another maniacal right-winger who makes W's transgressions look like child's play.
 
2014-07-27 10:40:38 AM  

Notabunny: contrapunctus: Notabunny: e public trust are going to get a good dose of revolution thrown in their faces.
This system is simply unsustainable.

Not true. Trickle-down, supply-side Reaganomics has been the system for 30 years. Reaganomics will continue to be the system as long as the electorate can be convinced to vote against their own self interests. And simple Divide-And-Conquer campaign strategies make that unbelievably simple.


I know you're joking, but isn't it funny how we've accepted a "system" of trickle down economics as gospel truth even though it's only been in place for 40 years?

40 years is a blip on the radar from a historical perspective.
 
2014-07-27 10:43:21 AM  

Chummer45: wotthefark: Chummer45: raerae1980: Chummer45: raerae1980: Older people got hosed with the housing bubble, younger people got hosed with student loans.


/you can't explain that

It's actually pretty easy to explain with one word: Reaganomics.

I was channeling O'Reilly.


/sorry


But unlike me, you can't explain how the tides work.  God does it.

I's just amusing to me how a lot of people look at Reagan's tenure with rose colored glasses, completely glossing over the fact that he instituted policies that has ultimately reversed most economic reform since the new deal, and caused a massive wealth transfer from the poor and middle classes to the ultrawealthy.

Why do you hate America? Some day you could be one of those hard working people who succeed. Maybe you aren't boot strappy enough. Maybe you are lazy and want to live off the government.


That is true.  After all, taxing the ultrawealthy who benefit the most from our system is really just government theft from the most "productive" members of our society.  Because we all know that being super rich means that you are rich purely because of your talent and productivity.  We don't want to force these demigods among men to get upset about their taxes and withdraw from society. Heaven forbid.

Also, I'm in favor of much more funding going to public education, which is bad because those bootstrappy kids should have to pay their own way rather than living off the government teat.  If they want an education, they can pay for it through indentured servitude or something.  After all, why should I have to pay for OTHER people to have their kids educated?  How does that benefit ME?

And we haven't seen injustice or oppression like when Obama let the top tax bracket go from 35% to 39.6% since the Holocaust.


America didn't get to be #1 by being like Europe and those socialist democracies. Financialization of the economy is good for all Americans. You have a 401k right? you wouldn't want that to suffer. Those corporations create jobs.

It's why hedge fund managers only get taxed at 20%. We need capital to make the economy grow and we need more capital invested in weapons not schools and infrastructure. America is under threat all the time. It's because those other people are jealous. They secretly love America and if you love higher taxes for the wealthy then you hate capitalism.
 
2014-07-27 10:47:58 AM  

contrapunctus: Notabunny: contrapunctus: Notabunny: e public trust are going to get a good dose of revolution thrown in their faces.
This system is simply unsustainable.

Not true. Trickle-down, supply-side Reaganomics has been the system for 30 years. Reaganomics will continue to be the system as long as the electorate can be convinced to vote against their own self interests. And simple Divide-And-Conquer campaign strategies make that unbelievably simple.

I know you're joking, but isn't it funny how we've accepted a "system" of trickle down economics as gospel truth even though it's only been in place for 40 years?

40 years is a blip on the radar from a historical perspective.


Try 120 years, actually. It used to be known as "horse and sparrow" economics.

I'll leave it to you to Google that phrase...it's pretty telling.
 
2014-07-27 10:48:33 AM  
Considering most households in the USA have zero wealth, or less, what's the point?
 
2014-07-27 10:57:37 AM  

natazha: Considering most households in the USA have zero wealth, or less, what's the point?


The point is making sure that lumber and steel prices stay low enough we can still build guillotine's in our front yards.
 
2014-07-27 10:59:50 AM  

contrapunctus: Chummer45:

The problem is that our political coverage is all about the horse race and nonsensical bullshiat characterizations of policy positions.  So a politician like Elizabeth Warren, who promotes the most common sense legislation that would actually help the average American, is derided as a "radical liberal."  There was a time in this country when progressive policies weren't routinely derided and minimalized by the national media.

The terrifying thing about all of this is that if you study European history, you realize that a good portion of the social horrors experienced over there were almost always preceded by an economic disaster.

Germany didn't arrive at Reichstag/racial hatred by some magical convergence of events we don't understand.  Neither did the Balkans.  Economic disaster has a way of vomiting up charismatic psychopaths who promise to:

A.) Fix the current problem.
B.) Rid the country of the internal population responsible for its ills (usually a marginalized group).

In other words, don't be surprised if a fearful America votes in another maniacal right-winger who makes W's transgressions look like child's play.


Or, after a serious crash, a Stalinist who wants bankers' heads to roll...literally.
See? You're already smiling.
 
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