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(Guardian)   How vaporizing is helping to eradicate teen smoking, drive anti-smoking zealots insane   (theguardian.com) divider line 83
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3184 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Jul 2014 at 2:12 PM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-26 12:00:44 PM
Better hurry up and find a way to tax that revenue source!
 
2014-07-26 12:19:31 PM
Why would it drive anti-smoking zealots insane? I think you misspelled "the tobacco industry".
 
2014-07-26 01:02:41 PM
The shop, close to a mosque, does a good trade with local Muslims who particularly like the apple flavour

Good call, Muslims.  Apple flavors tend to rank among my favorites, too.
 
2014-07-26 01:49:31 PM

Relatively Obscure: The shop, close to a mosque, does a good trade with local Muslims who particularly like the apple flavour

Good call, Muslims.  Apple flavors tend to rank among my favorites, too.


Not that all muslims are arabs, but apple flavoured tobacco is pretty common hookah smoke in the ME.  My guess is that's where that tradition arises.
 
2014-07-26 02:07:56 PM

Mugato: Why would it drive anti-smoking zealots insane? I think you misspelled "the tobacco industry".


So you're saying that all the lobbying to ban and/or restrict e-cigarettes is coming directly from tobacco companies? That legislators are even now still beholden to Big Tobacco?

Big Tobacco's response to e-cigarettes has been to buy into the business and provide the products themselves, not try to get them banned. The bans are almost exclusively pushed by anti-smoking zealots.
 
2014-07-26 02:18:53 PM
Anti-smoking zealot here.

Every smoker who switches to vapor becomes instantly a healthier person, and easier for me to be around as well. I love it when someone switches to e-cigs.

I can't believe TFA calls nicotine one of the most poisonous substances on the planet. Ethanol is worse for a start.
 
2014-07-26 02:22:47 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Mugato: Why would it drive anti-smoking zealots insane? I think you misspelled "the tobacco industry".

So you're saying that all the lobbying to ban and/or restrict e-cigarettes is coming directly from tobacco companies? That legislators are even now still beholden to Big Tobacco?

Big Tobacco's response to e-cigarettes has been to buy into the business and provide the products themselves, not try to get them banned. The bans are almost exclusively pushed by anti-smoking zealots.


The pharmaceutical companies are in on it too.  E-cigs cut into the market for things like nicotine gum and patches, after all.

LazarusLong42: Anti-smoking zealot here.

Every smoker who switches to vapor becomes instantly a healthier person, and easier for me to be around as well. I love it when someone switches to e-cigs.

I can't believe TFA calls nicotine one of the most poisonous substances on the planet. Ethanol is worse for a start.


This (well, I don't consider myself a "zealot", but I guess other people do).  Seriously, nicotine is probably the least toxic thing in tobacco.
 
2014-07-26 02:30:28 PM

Mugato: Why would it drive anti-smoking zealots insane? I think you misspelled "the tobacco industry".


I didn't understand it either, but just wait .. they usually turn up
 
2014-07-26 02:30:55 PM

Mugato: Why would it drive anti-smoking zealots insane? I think you misspelled "the tobacco industry".


I am not sure about insane, but where I live, there are more street corners with "vape shops" than 7-11s and Circle Ks combined, and each is brilliantly lit with neon advertising all the flavors.

So while it is perhaps keeping kids who would start smoking from smoking, I do wonder how many kids it introduces to vaping that would otherwise not have developed a nicotine addiction.

I'd prefer my kids do something safe like marijuana than something addictive like candy flavored nicotine.
 
2014-07-26 02:35:55 PM

LazarusLong42: I can't believe TFA calls nicotine one of the most poisonous substances on the planet. Ethanol is worse for a start.


HeartBurnKid: This (well, I don't consider myself a "zealot", but I guess other people do). Seriously, nicotine is probably the least toxic thing in tobacco.


From a purity standpoint, nicotine is very, very toxic, far more so than ethanol (as proven nightly at any bar in the world). That said, the concentration in e-cigarettes isn't typically high enough to poison someone unless they're dealing with straight fluid and/or are very young.

Straight e-cigarette fluid should be treated like any other potentially toxic household substance. Simply put, e-cigarettes are not for children. And that's OK,because they were never intended for children.
 
2014-07-26 02:40:55 PM
Well, I guess if you vaporize all the teens, that would end teen smoking, but it sure would screw up my bikini~ogling.
Yeah, I'm a dirty old man. So what.
 
2014-07-26 02:44:19 PM
Wtf. would one take up "vaping" if not to escape tobacco?

Shrug, teens are stupid, what's new.
 
2014-07-26 02:45:01 PM
I have been smoking cigarettes for around 25 years and bought a vaporizer earlier this year. It took a little getting used to, but soon enough my pack-plus per day habit became a half-pack per day, then five per day and then zero per day. Even my vape usage has gone down, though I still enjoy it with my morning coffee or after a meal. I had "quit" smoking several times in the past through various methods but with vaping, my mood swings were far less extreme and since finding some great flavors, the thought alone of smoking tobacco disgusts me. My local shop also sells juice with different amounts of nicotine, so I've been able to step it down gradually. The patch offered that but always made me feel jittery and light-headed.

So there's my CSB, but I highly reccommend switching to a vape if you want to quit or at least cut down significantly. I know I feel a hell of a lot better since I made a full switch.
 
2014-07-26 02:47:55 PM

spawn73: Wtf. would one take up "vaping" if not to escape tobacco?

Shrug, teens are stupid, what's new.


For the same reason teens take up tobacco.  Because it's "cool", and, as you said, teens are stupid.

That said, given the choice, I'd rather have teens vaping than smoking.  Though neither is ideal.
 
2014-07-26 02:56:48 PM
In before some twatwaffle explains that 'ecigs could totes be dangerous, we just don't know, I'm not taking the risk, get your vapor away from me assholes!'.
 
2014-07-26 02:59:46 PM
Just bought today e-cig for my wife. She started smoking more and more often (not yet addicted, but..), so I've decided better vaping than actual smoking.
 
2014-07-26 03:00:43 PM

lewismarktwo: In before some twatwaffle explains that 'ecigs could totes be dangerous, we just don't know, I'm not taking the risk, get your vapor away from me assholes!'.


I'm surprised we haven't seen any of those people in here yet, to be honest.  They usually show up fairly early.
 
2014-07-26 03:01:23 PM
Teen smoking has been going down, but it has nothing to do with vaping, at least in the US:

timedotcom.files.wordpress.com

The biggest cause for the decline of teen smoking in the US has been the increasing cost of cigarettes.  A pack today costs almost twice what it did twenty years ago.

In fact, the data largely show that teen e-cigarette users are also teen cigarette users.  Whether one's use leads to the other's is largely unclear, though, at this point.

You can debate the health benefits or costs all you like, but let's not pretend that vaping is some sort of panacea for teen smoking.
 
2014-07-26 03:02:17 PM
P.S. Oh, and I'm "anti-smoking zealot" to the point of extreme. 3 of my relatives were heavy smokers and died young (heart attack and 2 lung cancers), and that's something that leaves a mark in a young lad.
 
2014-07-26 03:03:07 PM
 
2014-07-26 03:06:49 PM

rugman11: You can debate the health benefits or costs all you like, but let's not pretend that vaping is some sort of panacea for teen smoking.


I'm not saying that nobody does that, but it's much less of an argument than the one that holds that switching to e-cigarettes from smoking is a boon to public health. If everybody who smoked switched to e-cigarettes we could end the incidence of lung cancer in a generation.
 
2014-07-26 03:07:25 PM

lewismarktwo: In before some twatwaffle explains that 'ecigs could totes be dangerous, we just don't know, I'm not taking the risk, get your vapor away from me assholes!'.


Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.
 
2014-07-26 03:09:55 PM

ReverendJynxed: Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.


Cite?
 
2014-07-26 03:11:31 PM

ReverendJynxed: lewismarktwo: In before some twatwaffle explains that 'ecigs could totes be dangerous, we just don't know, I'm not taking the risk, get your vapor away from me assholes!'.

Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.


No it hasn't.
 
2014-07-26 03:11:49 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.

Cite?


Batteries explode. You could poison a child if they drink the fluid. Addiction.

Like I said "AS dangerous." Implying they are completely safe is disingenuous. But you knew that.
 
2014-07-26 03:12:25 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: ReverendJynxed: lewismarktwo: In before some twatwaffle explains that 'ecigs could totes be dangerous, we just don't know, I'm not taking the risk, get your vapor away from me assholes!'.

Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.

No it hasn't.


Yes it has.
 
2014-07-26 03:15:25 PM

ReverendJynxed: Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.

Cite?

Batteries explode. You could poison a child if they drink the fluid. Addiction.

Like I said "AS dangerous." Implying they are completely safe is disingenuous. But you knew that.


Assertions are not citations. Also, in the context of safety it is understood to be regarding the incidence of lung cancer, emphysema, and other smoking-related diseases, not exploding batteries or even addiction. But you knew that.
 
2014-07-26 03:16:12 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.

Cite?


They are dangerous in a completely different way. The liquid is extremely poisonous and adding kid-friendly flavors is killing a lot of children who try to drink it. Vap-fluid rapidly became one of the leading causes of accidental poisoning.
 
2014-07-26 03:16:34 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.

Cite?

Batteries explode. You could poison a child if they drink the fluid. Addiction.

Like I said "AS dangerous." Implying they are completely safe is disingenuous. But you knew that.

Assertions are not citations. Also, in the context of safety it is understood to be regarding the incidence of lung cancer, emphysema, and other smoking-related diseases, not exploding batteries or even addiction. But you knew that.


Yes I did which is why I asserted it. They aren't safe. We aren't limiting the problems just to the few health problems you wish to cherry pick. Keep trying though.
 
2014-07-26 03:16:35 PM
There are some guys at work that vape.  They have what appears to be a miniature chemistry lab for mixing flavors, and they vaporizer things appear to be more complicated than a 4 barrel carburetor with multiple hand made coils that have to be balanced or whatever.

I'm a gadget hound, but I'll pass.
 
2014-07-26 03:18:06 PM
http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0403-e-cigarette-poison.html
 
2014-07-26 03:20:03 PM

madgonad: http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0403-e-cigarette-poison.html


Careful, facts scare these twits.
 
2014-07-26 03:25:12 PM

ReverendJynxed: Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Adolf Oliver Nipples: ReverendJynxed: Hey dummy. It has been proven they are dangerous. They just aren't AS dangerous.

Cite?

Batteries explode. You could poison a child if they drink the fluid. Addiction.

Like I said "AS dangerous." Implying they are completely safe is disingenuous. But you knew that.

Assertions are not citations. Also, in the context of safety it is understood to be regarding the incidence of lung cancer, emphysema, and other smoking-related diseases, not exploding batteries or even addiction. But you knew that.

Yes I did which is why I asserted it. They aren't safe. We aren't limiting the problems just to the few health problems you wish to cherry pick. Keep trying though.


It's not cherry picking. If you wish to talk about other matters I'll oblige you. But don't pretend that exploding batteries are a factor in the health discussion. They are at best ancillary to the matter. The question posited, investigated and legislated is whether or not consumed e-cigarette vapor  is more or less toxic than consumed cigarette smoke. I don't recall anybody yet making the case that the potential for a battery explosion should be a reason for a ban.
 
2014-07-26 03:25:35 PM
ITT, RightReverendJynxed lets us all know that he thinks nobody should enjoy themselves ever.
 
2014-07-26 03:26:43 PM

ReverendJynxed: madgonad: http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0403-e-cigarette-poison.html

Careful, facts scare these twits.


Sorry, my bad.
 
2014-07-26 03:26:53 PM

ReverendJynxed: madgonad: http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0403-e-cigarette-poison.html

Careful, facts scare these twits.


Not so. I noted that very thing at 2:35:55.
 
2014-07-26 03:28:15 PM

sugardave: ITT, RightReverendJynxed lets us all know that he thinks nobody should enjoy themselves ever.


Incidentally, I believe child-safety caps are now required at least here in Nevada. That won't stop the more resourceful kids, but it's something.

Meanwhile, this is just fodder for my campaign to ban laundry detergent in the home due to its highly poisonous nature.
 
2014-07-26 03:33:23 PM

rugman11: Teen smoking has been going down, but it has nothing to do with vaping, at least in the US:

[timedotcom.files.wordpress.com image 560x420]

The biggest cause for the decline of teen smoking in the US has been the increasing cost of cigarettes.  A pack today costs almost twice what it did twenty years ago.

In fact, the data largely show that teen e-cigarette users are also teen cigarette users.  Whether one's use leads to the other's is largely unclear, though, at this point.

You can debate the health benefits or costs all you like, but let's not pretend that vaping is some sort of panacea for teen smoking.


Cost is certainly a deterrent, but cigarettes cost roughly 2x-3x as much in Canada as they do in the states (its over $10/pack now) and our teen smoking rates are only around 2/3rds of the US's.  Its a factor yes but I think the larger one is the decades long campaign of 'smoking isn't cool'.  Its just not socially accepted anymore, its looked down upon (as it should be) and when you walk around college campuses or high schools there's barely anyone out there puffing away who's under 30.  The various pushes to get it away from places like bars, restaurants and even city parks is having a solid impact on alienating the habit from normal every day life and exposure to it.

/smoker for 20 years now
//e-cigs are annoying to obtain in Canada and technically not legal
///which is really too bad
 
2014-07-26 03:49:31 PM
I've been using a vaporizer for 5 months now, it's saved me hundreds of dollars now that I don't buy a pack of smokes a day for ~$7 anymore.  i only spend $10 every 2 weeks for a refill bottle and the wick lasts at least a month and those only cost me $2.50 to change out. It's a more wallet friendly habit than tobacco is.

I've been gradually buying bottles with a lower nicotine dosage so I've cut down considerably. Pretty close to quitting completley except when I drink in social situations.
 
2014-07-26 03:53:16 PM

LazarusLong42: Anti-smoking zealot here.

Every smoker who switches to vapor becomes instantly a healthier person, and easier for me to be around as well. I love it when someone switches to e-cigs.

I can't believe TFA calls nicotine one of the most poisonous substances on the planet. Ethanol is worse for a start.


Well.  given nicotine LD50 values of 9.2 mg/kg for dogs and 50 mg.kg for rats, I suspect that nicotine is more toxic than ethanol, gram for gram

A shot of grain is 44ml, at .789 g/ml is is 34,716 mg.  Assume an adult human is about 80 kg.   That is a dose of 434 mg/kg.   8.6 times the LD50 of nicotine for rats.  (It kill 50% of them.)

But humans do the ethanol dose for fun.


Think of it like this.
 
2014-07-26 03:56:47 PM
I'll stick my my analog cigarettes.
 
2014-07-26 04:07:41 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: So you're saying that all the lobbying to ban and/or restrict e-cigarettes is coming directly from tobacco companies? That legislators are even now still beholden to Big Tobacco?


Well, yes. Big tobacco and Big Pharma. I think that should be obvious.

 Big Tobacco's response to e-cigarettes has been to buy into the business and provide the products themselves, not try to get them banned. The bans are almost exclusively pushed by anti-smoking zealots.

They can't buy out everyone and they are way behind in the game.  Besides, simply buying these companies out isn't going to help them sell tobacco.

Of course all the bullshiat concern over the candy like flavors corrupting our children and therefore vaping should be restricted is coming from Big Tobacco/Pharma. You'd have to be a moron not to recognize that.
 
2014-07-26 04:14:08 PM
Subby's a troll and a moron. Why would anti-smoking zealots be against vaping? As long as you're wrecking your own lungs and not mine, I don't give a shiat.
 
ecl
2014-07-26 04:17:12 PM
Ecigs could totes mcgotes be teh dangers, eh?, no risk for me plz, keep your vapors away from me you vaporheads!'.
 
2014-07-26 04:19:05 PM
FACT: Nicotine is better for you, and less additive, than sugar.
 
2014-07-26 04:20:17 PM

bingethinker: Subby's a troll and a moron. Why would anti-smoking zealots be against vaping? As long as you're wrecking your own lungs and not mine, I don't give a shiat.


The major push against ecigarettes is coming from the pharmaceutical companies.
 
2014-07-26 04:22:29 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: So you're saying that all the lobbying to ban and/or restrict e-cigarettes is coming directly from tobacco companies?


They certainly support making it extremely expensive to get into the e-cig market, because they can afford the regulations.
 
2014-07-26 04:29:25 PM

TheGreatGazoo: There are some guys at work that vape.  They have what appears to be a miniature chemistry lab for mixing flavors, and they vaporizer things appear to be more complicated than a 4 barrel carburetor with multiple hand made coils that have to be balanced or whatever.

I'm a gadget hound, but I'll pass.


www.digitaltrends.com
www.primewholesale.com

Starter kit with rechargeable E-Cig (top image)- $12.99
Refill, 5-pack, lasts me about 3 weeks- $9.99

/no gadgetry required
//haven't smoked a traditional cig in over a year
 
2014-07-26 04:30:15 PM

HeartBurnKid: spawn73: Wtf. would one take up "vaping" if not to escape tobacco?

Shrug, teens are stupid, what's new.

For the same reason teens take up tobacco.  Because it's "cool", and, as you said, teens are stupid.

That said, given the choice, I'd rather have teens vaping than smoking.  Though neither is ideal.


Of course.

Dunno, I'm not that old actually. But from a middle class perspective taking up smoking wasn't cool either.

Getting adicted to nicotine is cool? Has to be one of the more stupid teen trends.
 
2014-07-26 04:32:00 PM
I quit smoking right before these e-cigs came out, so I'm getting a kick...

/seriously if I'd have waited longer I'd probably be vaping right now
//and never would have fully "quit" nicotine
 
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