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(The New York Times)   Y'know how that airliner getting shot down last week was going to force Russia to re-assess their aggression in Ukraine and back off? Yeah, today they started shelling Ukraine and giving more weapons to the nuts who shot down the plane last week   (nytimes.com) divider line 170
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Russia, Luhansk, air defense systems, MiG, American officials, BM-21 Grad, fighter aircrafts  
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2142 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2014 at 8:40 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA [TotalFark]
2014-07-25 05:26:52 PM
Russia's propaganda machine is blaming the CIA for shooting down the plane.
 
2014-07-25 05:32:33 PM
Putin is a dead man. It's just a matter of hiring the guy to do the job now.

Any American company doing business with the Russian oligarchy should be exposed immediately and boycotted. They'll clean their own house if we put enough pressure on them.
 
2014-07-25 06:10:10 PM
If Russia keeps this up, Putin will no longer get that Republican nomination he had within his reach just a few months ago.
 
2014-07-25 06:22:54 PM
What a U-type gantry crane might look like:

i00.i.aliimg.com
 
2014-07-25 06:23:35 PM
It's not an artillery bombardment, it's surface fracking. For peace! They are merely trying to help Ukraine exploit hidden gas reserves.

And if they don't find any gas, Russia will provide some for free!
 
2014-07-25 06:32:53 PM

NFA: Russia's propaganda machine is blaming the CIA for shooting down the plane.


Yes, well I've talked to American's that say it is another false flag - see Maine, Lusitania, Pearl Harbor (whar US carriers, WHAR?!), and Iraq WMD.  I calmly explain Occam's Razor and we agree to disagree on MH17.
 
2014-07-25 06:37:33 PM

NFA: Russia's propaganda machine is blaming the CIA for shooting down the plane.


Which is entirely possible.
 
2014-07-25 07:28:57 PM

Snarfangel: It's not an artillery bombardment, it's surface fracking. For peace! They are merely trying to help Ukraine exploit hidden gas freedomreserves.


FTFY
 
2014-07-25 07:40:30 PM
What was Einstein's definition of insanity again?
 
2014-07-25 08:01:26 PM
Russia has gone too far now, and war may be inevitable

/they've sued McDonald's
 
Ehh
2014-07-25 08:42:44 PM
Has John McCain demanded that we do something aggressive and stupid right now?
 
2014-07-25 08:44:10 PM
This buisness...
 
2014-07-25 08:44:13 PM

clancifer: If Russia keeps this up, Putin will no longer get that Republican nomination he had within his reach just a few months ago.


Obama has done more to support Putin than you could ever put on republicans. Stopped missile shield delivery to poland, signed an arms reduction agreement that was greatly more positive to Russia, let Russia lead on Syria, gave some of the most laughable sanctions ever while increasing rocket buys from Russia...
 
2014-07-25 08:46:27 PM
Putin's brain:

s18.postimg.org

Actually, it's obvious that the bloody-minded individuals are the brakes that hold back the advancement of the human race.

"sticking to your guns" is not always the most prudent route.
 
2014-07-25 08:46:54 PM
DOUBLE DOWN.
 
2014-07-25 08:47:33 PM
The US invaded Iraq for less.
 
2014-07-25 08:48:28 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Russia has gone too far now, and war may be inevitable

/they've sued McDonald's


Monger that fear!
 
2014-07-25 08:49:02 PM

DrPainMD: NFA: Russia's propaganda machine is blaming the CIA for shooting down the plane.

Which is entirely possible.


Yes, lets go with that:
The CIA had agents in rebel occupied Ukraine fire a Russian missile at what they thought was a military aircraft, and brag about it. Only to discover that the bits and parts raining down on them had Dutch children in it. At which time they further bragged that "Well, they shoulda stayed outta our air space."

Then they packed up the launcher and drove it into Russia.

... nah
 
2014-07-25 08:49:46 PM
Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.
 
2014-07-25 08:54:47 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.


It's OK when we do it, because reasons, such as.
 
2014-07-25 08:58:13 PM
"Veeery aggresseeve. And you...von't...be...pushed around."

[inspects another Oreo]
 
2014-07-25 08:58:46 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.



Really?  Hundreds of wedding parties?  Hundreds?

Idiot.

You and people like you are the reason people role their eyes when someone tries to discuss things like drone strikes.
 
2014-07-25 08:58:51 PM

Ehh: Has John McCain demanded that we do something aggressive and stupid right now?


Yes, George Soros keeps programming McCain to say "nuke Russia" and "Putin farks dead babushkas"....
 
2014-07-25 08:59:06 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: What a U-type gantry crane might look like:

[i00.i.aliimg.com image 800x555]


So the 2nd one behind, is that an I type, or a Stonehenge type?
 
2014-07-25 08:59:58 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Putin is a dead man. It's just a matter of hiring the guy to do the job now.

Any American company doing business with the Russian oligarchy should be exposed immediately and boycotted. They'll clean their own house if we put enough pressure on them.


LOL, y'all are so funny in your nationalist beliefs. The guns of August are starting and y'all don't see it coming. The Rodina is the protector of the Slavs. And Europe and the US are handing out more sanctions becuase a weapon system that was sold did a bad thing? Please like Western countries don't export arms to less than stellar people. Cough,central American death squads,cough.

But sure enjoy WW3
 
2014-07-25 09:00:31 PM
Ok , I'm the first to admit I'm unclear on what all the fighting is about. Pro Russian separatists? Ukrainian forces? And now Russia is lobbing shells, and supplying ammo and weapons?

/Can someone in the know explain what the hell is going on here? Who is fighting who and why?
 
2014-07-25 09:00:55 PM

NFA: Russia's propaganda machine is blaming the CIA for shooting down the plane.


And you knowing it's not how?
 
2014-07-25 09:01:27 PM
So, they are more like us now?
Scary
 
2014-07-25 09:03:53 PM
 
2014-07-25 09:04:00 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.


There's been a LOT said about drone strikes, what does that have to do with this issue?
 
2014-07-25 09:05:39 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes?


There isn't any. Not a single soul besides you find that outrageous. Thank you for your moral courage.

Lekneh: It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but


There are some statements that probably shouldn't ever be followed by a "but," unless you're actually trying to sound like an apologist twat.
 
2014-07-25 09:07:44 PM
Yeah... taking a job as a defense contractor is starting to look like a brighter move now...
 
2014-07-25 09:08:36 PM
They knew what they were getting into, I say let them crash!
 
2014-07-25 09:10:41 PM
Their like American Republicans.  When in doubt, double down.
 
2014-07-25 09:10:57 PM

TheJoe03: Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.

There's been a LOT said about drone strikes, what does that have to do with this issue?


It is war. There is no such thing as a nice war. Everyone is focused on this incident, but forgetting that we justify a lot of innocent lives lost as colateral damage. We're just as guilty and the sooner we start feeling it as a country, the sooner we can focus on making peace.
 
2014-07-25 09:11:16 PM

chuggernaught: Their like American Republicans.  When in doubt, double down.


Their?
 
2014-07-25 09:11:29 PM

chuggernaught: Their They'relike American Republicans.  When in doubt, double down.



FTFM
 
2014-07-25 09:11:40 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.


Please name three wedding parties that the Dutch or Malaysia have killed in drone strikes.

Wait.

Name one.

Just one.

We'll wait.
 
2014-07-25 09:13:47 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.


/Yes, we (the USA) should be totally ashamed that we bombed with precision weapons instead of carpet bombing.  Hell, if the derpy Jihadists  would just stop hiding amidst civilians while fighting, and wear little blinking lights for the convenience of the Apaches and drones, the civilian count would go down to 0. Would that be too much to ask?  Well, except the ones getting shot, and their heads sawed off, or blown up by the terrorists because they believe in Allah a little bit different. But those don't count for your derpy moranic troll against the USA. Hell, just bring back the bombers and start carpet bombing cities.  That would be much better.
 
2014-07-25 09:14:41 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Ok , I'm the first to admit I'm unclear on what all the fighting is about. Pro Russian separatists? Ukrainian forces? And now Russia is lobbing shells, and supplying ammo and weapons?

/Can someone in the know explain what the hell is going on here? Who is fighting who and why?


Distraction from Gaza, stagnant American economy. THANKS OBAMA.
 
2014-07-25 09:15:19 PM

chuggernaught: chuggernaught: Their They're like American Republicans.  When in doubt, double derp down.


FTFM


You missed a spot.
 
2014-07-25 09:16:30 PM

HiFiGuy: Bit'O'Gristle: Ok , I'm the first to admit I'm unclear on what all the fighting is about. Pro Russian separatists? Ukrainian forces? And now Russia is lobbing shells, and supplying ammo and weapons?

/Can someone in the know explain what the hell is going on here? Who is fighting who and why?

Distraction from Gaza, stagnant American economy. THANKS OBAMA.


/not quite the in depth accounting of the current action i was hoping for...but ..thanks for playing.
 
2014-07-25 09:16:33 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.

Please name three wedding parties that the Dutch or Malaysia have killed in drone strikes.

Wait.

Name one.

Just one.

We'll wait.


Name an Iraqi who was responsible for 9/11.
 
2014-07-25 09:16:42 PM

rooftop235: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QXjWFlF-s


That is a great video. I've never seen so many jackasses shoot like the other guy has no such technology.
 
2014-07-25 09:17:01 PM
The Russians have never been very good at lying. Back in the Soviet Union days no one ever died in plane crashes, according to TASS.
 
2014-07-25 09:17:33 PM

MyRandomName: clancifer: If Russia keeps this up, Putin will no longer get that Republican nomination he had within his reach just a few months ago.

Obama has done more to support Putin than you could ever put on republicans. Stopped missile shield delivery to poland, signed an arms reduction agreement that was greatly more positive to Russia, let Russia lead on Syria, gave some of the most laughable sanctions ever while increasing rocket buys from Russia...


"I can ease up after the election"
 
2014-07-25 09:19:10 PM

Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.


Moron #1

MFAWG: Lekneh: Where is the outrage over the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes? It's terrible that the rebels shot down a civilian aircraft, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have the blood of hundreds of wedding parties on it's hands.

It's OK when we do it, because reasons, such as.


Met Moron #2

tinfoil-hat maggie: NFA: Russia's propaganda machine is blaming the CIA for shooting down the plane.

And you knowing it's not how?


And together, they bumped into Moron #3
 
2014-07-25 09:20:14 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Ok , I'm the first to admit I'm unclear on what all the fighting is about. Pro Russian separatists? Ukrainian forces? And now Russia is lobbing shells, and supplying ammo and weapons?

/Can someone in the know explain what the hell is going on here? Who is fighting who and why?


Allegedly, the western half of Ukraine is mostly pro-Europe and wanted to join the EU and possibly NATO.  The eastern half (and Crimea) is mostly pro-Russia and did not want to join EU/NATO.  The former leader of Ukraine was very pro-Russia, and was kicked out after mass demonstrations in western Ukraine.  His successor was very pro-EU.  In response, eastern Ukraine started to also demonstrate.  Some, especially ethnic Russians (eastern Ukraine and Crimea were heavily settled by Russians over the past centuries), started open rebellion.  Some of them claim that Ukraine has killed Russians as these demonstrations/rebellions grew.

Russia has a massive naval base in the Crimea, and either Russian soldiers or pro-Russia rebels (again, likely ethnic Russians even if living in Ukraine) seized Crimea to keep the base and "protect ethnic Russians".  Russia also doesn't want Ukraine to be part of the EU or NATO because that is a direct assault on its interests.

Western Ukraine sent troops in as a response.  Since then, there has been back/forth fighting between the western Ukraine government forces and the eastern pro-Russia separatists.  The EU/NATO have largely stayed out of it, likely for two reasons.  One, they don't want to risk nuclear war with Russia, and two, they rely heavily on energy pipelines from Russia.  The US has issued economic sanctions, but probably won't take more direct action, also to avoid nuclear war but also because the logistics of moving troops into the area without EU support are nearly impossible.

The only NATO member that is doing anything is Turkey, who has threatened to close the Bosphorus Strait to Russia, which would completely isolate their naval base in Crimea.

Throughout, there is a lot of propaganda on both sides.  The ethnic Russian rebels and Russia claim that the western Ukrainian government is fascism reborn and is marching east to kill slavs just like the Nazis did.  They blame Ukraine and the US for everything bad (like MH17).  Meanwhile the US is stirring the pot by directly implicating Russia in combat actions, while Russia denies having troops present.  It can be difficult to figure out who is correct, but Putin and Russia seem to contradict themselves more often.

I think it will work out in one of 3 ways.  1) Ukrainian government will fight off Russia and kick out the ethnic Russians, which will further inflame the fascism theory and likely escalate the situation.  2) Russia will completely invade Ukraine, which will also escalate the situation.  3) The Ukrainian government will back down and let Russia have Crimea and east Ukraine.  The latter seems most likely if reports about disagreements in the Ukraine government and unwillingness of Ukrainian troops to fight are true, and might be the best result for all.  That said, I don't think the US or EU would be particularly happy with that result, because they would lose some face to Russia and they don't want to risk giving the Russians the idea that they can start re-building the Soviet Union.  Also, if Russia takes all of Ukraine, the eastern NATO states that were former Warsaw Pact are probably not going to be happy, because they don't want to return to the bad old days- especially Poland, Estonia, etc.
 
2014-07-25 09:21:23 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: ecmoRandomNumbers: Putin is a dead man. It's just a matter of hiring the guy to do the job now.

Any American company doing business with the Russian oligarchy should be exposed immediately and boycotted. They'll clean their own house if we put enough pressure on them.

LOL, y'all are so funny in your nationalist beliefs. The guns of August are starting and y'all don't see it coming. The Rodina is the protector of the Slavs. And Europe and the US are handing out more sanctions becuase a weapon system that was sold did a bad thing? Please like Western countries don't export arms to less than stellar people. Cough,central American death squads,cough.

But sure enjoy WW3


I have a friend who works for a world famous American-based multinational in Moscow. I will leave it that vague for this reason: They are currently negotiating a deal with a Russia oil company that is run by an oligarch. This oligarch is one of the people who has already had sanctions levied against him. This American companies solution? Indirect negotiation. They talk to the company, but in no way have any contact with the CEO...who I am sure is not told about the deals in any way....so yeah, money trumps all
 
2014-07-25 09:22:53 PM

juvandy: Bit'O'Gristle: Ok , I'm the first to admit I'm unclear on what all the fighting is about. Pro Russian separatists? Ukrainian forces? And now Russia is lobbing shells, and supplying ammo and weapons?

/Can someone in the know explain what the hell is going on here? Who is fighting who and why?

Allegedly, the western half of Ukraine is mostly pro-Europe and wanted to join the EU and possibly NATO.  The eastern half (and Crimea) is mostly pro-Russia and did not want to join EU/NATO.  The former leader of Ukraine was very pro-Russia, and was kicked out after mass demonstrations in western Ukraine.  His successor was very pro-EU.  In response, eastern Ukraine started to also demonstrate.  Some, especially ethnic Russians (eastern Ukraine and Crimea were heavily settled by Russians over the past centuries), started open rebellion.  Some of them claim that Ukraine has killed Russians as these demonstrations/rebellions grew.

Russia has a massive naval base in the Crimea, and either Russian soldiers or pro-Russia rebels (again, likely ethnic Russians even if living in Ukraine) seized Crimea to keep the base and "protect ethnic Russians".  Russia also doesn't want Ukraine to be part of the EU or NATO because that is a direct assault on its interests.

Western Ukraine sent troops in as a response.  Since then, there has been back/forth fighting between the western Ukraine government forces and the eastern pro-Russia separatists.  The EU/NATO have largely stayed out of it, likely for two reasons.  One, they don't want to risk nuclear war with Russia, and two, they rely heavily on energy pipelines from Russia.  The US has issued economic sanctions, but probably won't take more direct action, also to avoid nuclear war but also because the logistics of moving troops into the area without EU support are nearly impossible.

The only NATO member that is doing anything is Turkey, who has threatened to close the Bosphorus Strait to Russia, which would completely isolate their naval b ...


/thank you, I have a greater understanding of what is going on.
/peace.
 
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