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(Talking Points Memo)   Arizona's prisons chief says that 60% of the time, executions work every time   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 106
    More: Obvious, implementation, medical doctors, lethal injection  
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433 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jul 2014 at 11:45 AM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-25 09:51:33 AM  
The burying part went well, really.
 
2014-07-25 09:51:40 AM  
Pollo like typing detected.
 
2014-07-25 09:52:38 AM  
Why is it that we still execute people, again?
 
2014-07-25 09:53:34 AM  

myschief: Pollo like typing detected.


Actually no, not at all.

Attributing every single political or social thread that gets posted around here to me is becoming a bit of a hobby for some of you guys.
 
2014-07-25 09:54:28 AM  

PolloDiablo: myschief: Pollo like typing detected.


You and Megarian and Meowsaidthedog should have a discussion on the criminal justice system and prisons systems.
 
2014-07-25 09:55:16 AM  
I see no problem with executions taking hours of painful agony. They should last at least 24 hours of utter agony.
 
2014-07-25 09:56:02 AM  
You were a vicious bastard  .  .  .  and I'm glad you're dead!
 
2014-07-25 09:56:32 AM  

PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?


Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.
 
2014-07-25 09:58:30 AM  

LaurenAguilera: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.


My only issue with the death penalty is it takes too long.  If they haven't been executed in 2 years after conviction, then send them to live with the state's politicians.
 
2014-07-25 09:58:48 AM  

myschief: You and Megarian and Meowsaidthedog should have a discussion on the criminal justice system and prisons systems.


I don't get what you mean. Seriously.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:00 AM  

LaurenAguilera: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.


But soom we will colonize Mars.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:58 AM  

GalFriday: LaurenAguilera: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.

But soom we will colonize Mars.


I am down with sending them to Mars.
 
2014-07-25 10:00:04 AM  

PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?


Revenge porn.
 
2014-07-25 10:01:05 AM  

PolloDiablo: myschief: You and Megarian and Meowsaidthedog should have a discussion on the criminal justice system and prisons systems.

I don't get what you mean. Seriously.


They both are educated and passionate about the subject.  They would be good people to discuss it with.
 
2014-07-25 10:01:07 AM  

LaurenAguilera: Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?


Actually, studies have shown that it's far cheaper to sentence someone to life in prison than it is to execute them.
 
2014-07-25 10:01:11 AM  

Chris Ween: LaurenAguilera: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.

My only issue with the death penalty is it takes too long.  If they haven't been executed in 2 years after conviction, then send them to live with the state's politicians.


I understand the delay. They get a while to try and change their conviction, ok.
 
2014-07-25 10:01:32 AM  

PolloDiablo: myschief: Pollo like typing detected.

Actually no, not at all.

Attributing every single political or social thread that gets posted around here to me is becoming a bit of a hobby for some of you guys.


Let it go man.

When people see someone over-react or for that matter even react on the interwebby, the feeding frenzy kicks into overdrive and goes berserk.

Ask the kwamster or $2 bill guy.
 
2014-07-25 10:02:06 AM  

LaurenAguilera: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.


The costs of the judicial process and incarceration until execution is finally carried out is thousands of times what it would cost to feed someone to his natural death.

If we're going to have a death penalty in the US, at least carry it out in a timely and humane fashion. Not a sloppy two hour mess that comes 20 yrs late.
 
2014-07-25 10:02:20 AM  

LaurenAguilera: Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?


Generally speaking, It's actually cheaper to feed and house them for the rest of their lives than it is to execute them, what with the multiple appeals and everything.
 
2014-07-25 10:02:44 AM  

PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?


Execution could easily be removed from the judicial process. The problem really is that a life sentence isn't that bad.
I site Richard Speck as an example. He murdered nine nurses, by strangulation. He was tried and found guilty and
spent the rest of his life in the Stateville Correctional Center, where he had a pretty decent life. Make life in prison
a life long hell, 23 hours of lockup with one hour of solitary exercise. Feed them water and Nutraloaf. Never let them
see family; never let them use a phone or see a television program. Until society stops letting the most cruel and
vicious criminals live a relatively decent life with nice things and good food and furnishings, execution will have to do.
 
2014-07-25 10:03:10 AM  
I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.
 
2014-07-25 10:03:15 AM  

spcMike: LaurenAguilera: Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

Actually, studies have shown that it's far cheaper to sentence someone to life in prison than it is to execute them.


But then you wouldn't get the satisfaction of watching the life bleed out of them, thinking "die, you piece of shiat."

Which totally makes you better than them, right?

/not you personally
//the proverbial you
///you know what I mean
 
2014-07-25 10:04:06 AM  

LaurenAguilera: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Because some people need to be dead, and it costs too much to feed them until it happens naturally?

I mean, we could go the whole "send them to a different continent" route but I think they are all spoken for these days.


It actually costs less to put someone into prison for life than it does to execute them, which makes the whole paradigm even more pointless.
 
2014-07-25 10:05:00 AM  

LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.


What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?
 
2014-07-25 10:05:31 AM  
1 in 20 on death row is probably innocent. And disproportionately black or Hispanic. Suck it minorities.
 
2014-07-25 10:05:54 AM  
The point of justice is not vengeance.

Or, at least, it shouldn't be.

As much as people say that life in prison "isn't that bad", they're not volunteering for it as an alternative to their current life, so I'd say being in prison for life is pretty bad.
 
2014-07-25 10:07:53 AM  

spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?


Which is my second point in my 3 point list of why state executions should be discontinued.  The justice system has shown time and time again that it's more than willing to incarcerate, put on death row and/or execute people who are found, in retrospect, to have been innnocent (or lack the mental capacity to really understand the consequence of their actions).

I'd rather put a million multi-murderers in prison for life than accidentally execute someone who did nothing wrong.
 
2014-07-25 10:07:59 AM  

Shakespeare's Monkey: Execution could easily be removed from the judicial process. The problem really is that a life sentence isn't that bad.
I site Richard Speck as an example. He murdered nine nurses, by strangulation. He was tried and found guilty and
spent the rest of his life in the Stateville Correctional Center, where he had a pretty decent life. Make life in prison
a life long hell, 23 hours of lockup with one hour of solitary exercise. Feed them water and Nutraloaf. Never let them
see family; never let them use a phone or see a television program. Until society stops letting the most cruel and
vicious criminals live a relatively decent life with nice things and good food and furnishings, execution will have to do.


The purpose of prison, and the claimed purpose of execution, is to remove dangerous people from society so that they can no longer cause harm to others. Prison serves that purpose adequately, and to the degree necessary not to be considered cruel and unusual or inhumane. Our government shouldn't be in business of vengeful retribution, no matter how justified you might think it is.
 
2014-07-25 10:10:37 AM  

spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?


It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.
 
2014-07-25 10:10:39 AM  

Shakespeare's Monkey: PolloDiablo: Why is it that we still execute people, again?

Execution could easily be removed from the judicial process. The problem really is that a life sentence isn't that bad.
I site Richard Speck as an example. He murdered nine nurses, by strangulation. He was tried and found guilty and
spent the rest of his life in the Stateville Correctional Center, where he had a pretty decent life. Make life in prison
a life long hell, 23 hours of lockup with one hour of solitary exercise. Feed them water and Nutraloaf. Never let them
see family; never let them use a phone or see a television program. Until society stops letting the most cruel and
vicious criminals live a relatively decent life with nice things and good food and furnishings, execution will have to do.


The viciousness and/or intensity of sentencing has been repeatedly shown to have virtually no deterrent effect against people committing "capital crimes".
 
2014-07-25 10:12:25 AM  

Ponzholio: There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.


There's always a grey area, especially when you begin to consider what role mental illness or other factors may have played.

It doesn't make what happened any less horrible, or the killer any less innocent, but there's always a grey area.
 
2014-07-25 10:14:22 AM  

spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?


If they can't prove their innocence in the 20 plus years before the execution, I am sorry.

Life in prison is far too cushy.
 
2014-07-25 10:15:08 AM  

Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.


Well, he was off his meds, and I think any discussion of the prison systems in this country also needs to address our crappy mental health system.

But I do think that in instances like the BTK killer, where there is no remorse and they completely understand what they were doing, that execution is probably the answer
 
2014-07-25 10:15:15 AM  

LaurenAguilera: If they can't prove their innocence in the 20 plus years before the execution, I am sorry.


Yikes.
 
2014-07-25 10:17:11 AM  

LaurenAguilera: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

If they can't prove their innocence in the 20 plus years before the execution, I am sorry.

Life in prison is far too cushy.


So you're ok with all the innocent people who died by the hands of the state before DNA testing was a viable recourse just because it took a while for the technology to mature?
 
2014-07-25 10:17:26 AM  

Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.


Speaking as someone who had friends who would have been in that theater at that time except for a sudden urge to be frugal, the idea of wanting to have some sort of retribution if things were different is easy to extrapolate.

But that's why we shouldn't do it at all.  Justice shouldn't be about vengeance.  It's tempting to make the one-off exception for "we know for sure" incidents, but many of the folks who were proven in a court of law to have done things "for sure", including confessions, were later shown to have been innocent.

Better to simply eliminate the possibility that an uncorrectable error might be made.

Cheaper, too, as many people said.
 
2014-07-25 10:19:10 AM  
BLOOD FOR THE LAUREN
 
2014-07-25 10:20:06 AM  

spcMike: Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.

Well, he was off his meds, and I think any discussion of the prison systems in this country also needs to address our crappy mental health system.

But I do think that in instances like the BTK killer, where there is no remorse and they completely understand what they were doing, that execution is probably the answer


I'll give you the crappy mental health situation needs improved. But in this case not taking his meds was his own fault. Not societies and not the crappy mental health system. Even with the state of the metal health situation, he was able to function so long as he took his meds. It was his choice not to.
 
2014-07-25 10:20:14 AM  

myschief: PolloDiablo: myschief: Pollo like typing detected.

You and Megarian and Meowsaidthedog should have a discussion on the criminal justice system and prisons systems.


They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison (for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system (for you and me)
 
2014-07-25 10:22:15 AM  
I wonder if there is ever an instance where someone was set to be executed, but survived every execution attempt.

I remember watching an Alcoa Presents: One Step Beyond (an Outer Limits competitor) episode with that premise when I was a kid.
 
2014-07-25 10:22:33 AM  
Yes, I am. It sucks, I know.
 
2014-07-25 10:23:59 AM  

RexTalionis: I wonder if there is ever an instance where someone was set to be executed, but survived every execution attempt.

I remember watching an Alcoa Presents: One Step Beyond (an Outer Limits competitor) episode with that premise when I was a kid.


Maybe we could get Stephen King to rewrite Groundhog Day...
 
2014-07-25 10:24:53 AM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.

Speaking as someone who had friends who would have been in that theater at that time except for a sudden urge to be frugal, the idea of wanting to have some sort of retribution if things were different is easy to extrapolate.

But that's why we shouldn't do it at all.  Justice shouldn't be about vengeance.  It's tempting to make the one-off exception for "we know for sure" incidents, but many of the folks who were proven in a court of law to have done things "for sure", including confessions, were later shown to have been innocent.

Better to simply eliminate the possibility that an uncorrectable error might be made.

Cheaper, too, as many people said.


Trust me, I understand, my cousin was shot and killed in the line duty serving the NYPD. The guy who shot him was acquitted of 1st degree murder, though he was charged and convicted of 2nd degree murder. He's going to have 25 to life, and I'm ok with that.

The guy getting the death penalty doesn't bring back my cousin and doesn't do anything to relieve the tragedy of it all.
 
2014-07-25 10:30:38 AM  

Ponzholio: spcMike: Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.

Well, he was off his meds, and I think any discussion of the prison systems in this country also needs to address our crappy mental health system.

But I do think that in instances like the BTK killer, where there is no remorse and they completely understand what they were doing, that execution is probably the answer

I'll give you the crappy mental health situation needs improved. But in this case not taking his meds was his own fault. Not societies and not the crappy mental health system. Even with the state of the metal health situation, he was able to function so long as he took his meds. It was his choice not to.


I don't know where you got the idea that this guy was a happy, healthy member of society at some point.  From what I've read, he was having problems for a long time.

The thing about mental illness is that even the best meds don't fix you 100% and often drug regiments need to be adjusted over time as they lose effectiveness.  It's a catch-22: My brain doesn't work right, so I need to take meds, but if they start to not fix the problem, the chance of me not taking the meds due to my brain not working right increases over time.

Now, I am not qualified, nor do I have the information required to know this individuals particular case, but that's part of why I am against the death penalty, because of that sort of variable.
 
2014-07-25 10:32:48 AM  

spcMike: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.

Speaking as someone who had friends who would have been in that theater at that time except for a sudden urge to be frugal, the idea of wanting to have some sort of retribution if things were different is easy to extrapolate.

But that's why we shouldn't do it at all.  Justice shouldn't be about vengeance.  It's tempting to make the one-off exception for "we know for sure" incidents, but many of the folks who were proven in a court of law to have done things "for sure", including confessions, were later shown to have been innocent.

Better to simply eliminate the possibility that an uncorrectable error might be made.

Cheaper, too, as many people said.

Trust me, I understand, my cousin was shot and killed in the line duty serving the NYPD. The guy who shot him was acquitted of 1st degree murder, though he was charged and convicted of 2nd degree murder. He's going to have 25 to life, and I'm ok with that.

The guy getting the death penalty doesn't bring back my cousin and doesn't do anything to relieve the tragedy of it all.


Yeah, exactly.  Condolences on your cousin.
 
2014-07-25 10:42:56 AM  
Why is this thread no longer appearing in the TFD queue?
 
2014-07-25 10:53:44 AM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Ponzholio: spcMike: Ponzholio: spcMike: LaurenAguilera: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COST.

I just want people who do horrible things to meet a horrible end.

What about the innocent people who were railroaded through a corrupt judicial system?

It definitely needs to be fixed. But then there are some people like the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He did it. There's no doubt he did it. There's no gray area whatsoever. He needs to be put down.

Well, he was off his meds, and I think any discussion of the prison systems in this country also needs to address our crappy mental health system.

But I do think that in instances like the BTK killer, where there is no remorse and they completely understand what they were doing, that execution is probably the answer

I'll give you the crappy mental health situation needs improved. But in this case not taking his meds was his own fault. Not societies and not the crappy mental health system. Even with the state of the metal health situation, he was able to function so long as he took his meds. It was his choice not to.

I don't know where you got the idea that this guy was a happy, healthy member of society at some point.  From what I've read, he was having problems for a long time.

The thing about mental illness is that even the best meds don't fix you 100% and often drug regiments need to be adjusted over time as they lose effectiveness.  It's a catch-22: My brain doesn't work right, so I need to take meds, but if they start to not fix the problem, the chance of me not taking the meds due to my brain not working right increases over time.

Now, I am not qualified, nor do I have the information required to know this individuals particular case, but that's part of why I am against the death penalty, because of that sort of variable.


I don't know where you got the idea that I said he was happy and healthy, I said functioning. I have no idea what his mental capacity is, but I'm not going to argue semantics over this. All I said is I'm in favor of the death penalty when there is a clear-cut answer to who committed a serious atrocity such as this. If the death penalty is allowed, I think it should be used. If it's outlawed, I'm fine with life without parole.

Some people call it vengeance, which maybe it is, I prefer to call it closure.
 
2014-07-25 10:57:38 AM  
Nobody else is even a wee bit curious about why this is gone from TFD? Anyone?

Are we just doubling-down on the stupid from yesterday?
 
2014-07-25 11:06:16 AM  
Wood lay dying for nearly two hours in what his lawyers said should have been a 10-minute procedure.

But Ryan said that so far there was no evidence to support the "premature and erroneous conclusion" that the execution had been botched.


I don't know how the Arizona prison system runs things, but where I work if my boss sends me out on a job that should take ten minutes and I don't get back to the shop for two hours, something obviously went awry.
 
2014-07-25 11:12:50 AM  
knoji.com

Hmm.
 
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