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(ESPN)   Tony LaRussa says steroid users should be allowed in the Hall of Fame. That's the joke   (espn.go.com) divider line 88
    More: Obvious, Tony La Russa, Tom Glavine, Big Macs, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Greg Maddux, Baseball Hall of Fame, Hall of Fames  
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429 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jul 2014 at 11:51 AM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-25 09:37:31 AM
If they continue to allow the crack and meth addicts, why not?
 
2014-07-25 09:42:04 AM
Of course, Tony managed one of the most prolific users for years, and on two teams, so no bias there.

/Cards fan
//fark McGwire
 
2014-07-25 09:46:59 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Of course, Tony managed one of the most prolific users for years, and on two teams, so no bias there.

/Cards fan
//fark McGwire


He had Canseco and McGwire in Oakland when they both apparently used and became known as "the Bash Brothers." He rode their successes into his own. Look, I think Tony LaRussa is a great manager, but for him to say this smacks of self-interest. He benefited from steroid usage, but he wasn't the only manager who had steroid abusers on his team. It might diminish his accomplishments a bit, but I still would rank him as one of the best managers of his era.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:46 AM

Nabb1: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Of course, Tony managed one of the most prolific users for years, and on two teams, so no bias there.

/Cards fan
//fark McGwire

He had Canseco and McGwire in Oakland when they both apparently used and became known as "the Bash Brothers." He rode their successes into his own. Look, I think Tony LaRussa is a great manager, but for him to say this smacks of self-interest. He benefited from steroid usage, but he wasn't the only manager who had steroid abusers on his team. It might diminish his accomplishments a bit, but I still would rank him as one of the best managers of his era.


Oh absolutely.  Agreed 110%.  But you're right, it is heavy on self-interest in this specific case.  :)
 
2014-07-25 11:57:09 AM
Well, what other opinion can Tony have without being laughed at.
 
2014-07-25 12:00:36 PM
Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts
 
2014-07-25 12:02:21 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Of course, Tony managed one of the most prolific users for years, and on two teams, so no bias there.

/Cards fan
//fark McGwire


One?!
Wasn't Canseco teammates with McGwire, too?
What do Pujols's numbers in Anaheim look like right now? Hasn't got you wondering at all about those years in St. Louis?
I didn't even know denial was a river that ran in Missouri.
 
2014-07-25 12:04:10 PM

Trance750: If they continue to allow the crack and meth addicts, why not?


Tired drunks, they let drunks in too
 
2014-07-25 12:06:30 PM

EyeballKid: Wasn't Canseco teammates with McGwire, too?
What do Pujols's numbers in Anaheim look like right now? Hasn't got you wondering at all about those years in St. Louis?


1.  I honestly forgot about Canseco.  Good catch.
2.  Call me a homer fan if you want, but I would be honestly shocked if Pujols was juicing.  His performance over his career has been too consistent to suggest sudden doping regimens.  That he is trailing off now makes sense given his age, and batting position now.

But, I could be wrong.  I just hope I'm not.
 
2014-07-25 12:10:23 PM
Eventually they will be. Although it would be nice and perhaps make it easier to accept if users would be honest about what they did.
 
2014-07-25 12:12:35 PM
throwbacksnw.com

assets.sbnation.com

www.gannett-cdn.com

i39.photobucket.com

Those were the days...
www.morethings.com
 
2014-07-25 12:14:44 PM

WhiskeySticks: [throwbacksnw.com image 500x357]

[assets.sbnation.com image 215x325]

[www.gannett-cdn.com image 680x510]

[i39.photobucket.com image 240x181]

Those were the days...
[www.morethings.com image 329x243]


graphics8.nytimes.com

Indeed.


/Be easy on me. This was 24 years ago, and all we Reds fans have.
/ Rijo > 'Roids
 
2014-07-25 12:15:38 PM
 
2014-07-25 12:21:39 PM
So, can anyone tell me why steroid use was any worse the amphetamine use is the 70s, or steroid use that apparently occurred in the 60s?  Why is it that we demonize cheaters from 20 years ago and celebrate people like Hank Aaron who admitted to using greenies?

Hell, there are a lot of HOF who are celebrated for the way they would skirt the rules by modifying the ball.  Why are they any better than steroid users?
 
2014-07-25 12:21:43 PM

EyeballKid: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Of course, Tony managed one of the most prolific users for years, and on two teams, so no bias there.

/Cards fan
//fark McGwire

One?!
Wasn't Canseco teammates with McGwire, too?
What do Pujols's numbers in Anaheim look like right now? Hasn't got you wondering at all about those years in St. Louis?
I didn't even know denial was a river that ran in Missouri.


If you think Jim Edmonds was natural, I got a bridge to sell you.

plushpuppy: Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts


If we kick out all the guys who were on PEDs out of the HOF, it will be very, very empty. Hank Aaron and Willie Mays used greenies. Mickey Mantle injected himself with testosterone. Babe Ruth often used cocaine for energy. And these are just the ones we know about.
 
2014-07-25 12:28:30 PM

machoprogrammer: If you think Jim Edmonds was natural, I got a bridge to sell you.


Hey now, most memories I have of Jim Edmonds involve all those nifty over-the-shoulder "meh, I'm Willie Mays, biatch" catches he made in CF. ARE YOU TELLING ME HE WAS A FRAUD??

In all seriousness, I actually have a slight amount of respect for LaRussa in taking this line. If only because it demonstrates he isn't completely tone-deaf to stand publicly and state some self-righteous garbage about purity and fairness and say juicers should be outcasts.

/I've always thought and still think LaRussa is a dick, though.
 
2014-07-25 12:29:55 PM

sign_of_Zeta: So, can anyone tell me why steroid use was any worse the amphetamine use is the 70s, or steroid use that apparently occurred in the 60s?  Why is it that we demonize cheaters from 20 years ago and celebrate people like Hank Aaron who admitted to using greenies?

Hell, there are a lot of HOF who are celebrated for the way they would skirt the rules by modifying the ball.  Why are they any better than steroid users?



They aren't, but they're already in the HOF, and that means they can use a double standard against the younger generations of players, because there's nobody to call them out on their hypocrisy.
 
2014-07-25 12:32:48 PM

LarryDan43: Eventually they will be. Although it would be nice and perhaps make it easier to accept if users would be honest about what they did.


Of course, people would be honest about what they did if there wasn't a stigma against it. There's little reason to be honest when you stand to lose lots and gain nothing.
 
2014-07-25 12:33:00 PM
Eventually.

Here's the thing.  After the strike cancelled the World Series in '94 a lot of baseball fans were fed up.  Attendance was down.  MLB was all too happy to take advantage of the publicity provided by the McGuire-Sosa home run race.  Bonds was another one (and he was a first ballot HoFer BEFORE he started doing steroids...which is really why I can't stand him...his ego got him to do steroids...he didn't need them to be a great player).  In any case, the hypocrisy of MLB (and the baseball writers that vote on the HoF) is a bit ridiculous and they should eventually be voted in.

I guess the real question is would McGuire be in the HoF without steroids?  Certainly Bonds would have been in before he started doing steroids.  That's the real issue that the voters will probably have to ponder...stats aside.
 
2014-07-25 12:33:59 PM

plushpuppy: Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts


Pete Rose isn't in because he isn't eligible due to being banned from MLB, it's in the bylaws. You can argue whether he should or shouldn't be banned, but the HoF can't vote him in until they change the bylaw or his MLB ban is lifted.

The other players aren't in because the BBWAA are a bunch of biatchy little douches. I maintain that as long as Ty Cobb is in, not one case can be made for keeping someone out due to morality. Sanctity of the game is a damn joke, cheating is rampant, encouraged, and leads to more wins and better contracts. Stop pretending that there is something sacred about this form of entertainment, do your best to catch and punish cheaters, but when someone has the numbers that justify being enshrined among the sports' greatest, do it. Or give up your vote to someone who is going to appreciate the game for what it is, rather than style themselves as a protector of a gilded ideal that only ever existed in that voter's imagination.

Are today's stars lazy, overpaid whiners with no sense of history or respect for the game? Who cares? They are the ones the fans pay to see, and read about in your articles. Stop pining, and vote the greatest players of the generation into the HoF where, based on their play, they deserve to be.
 
2014-07-25 12:50:12 PM
Didn't someone get suspended last week for amphetamines?

If that's still a thing, please get lawrie to stop twitching. We don't need added suspicion.
 
2014-07-25 12:51:53 PM
My solution, vote regardless of suspicion. If they get in they have to admit to any steroid use during their playing days. After they're in if it's determined they lied then they get kicked out of the hall.
 
2014-07-25 12:52:16 PM
machoprogrammer:

If you think Jim Edmonds was natural, I got a bridge to sell you.

Well I see we've found the author of the Mitchell Report
 
2014-07-25 12:56:54 PM
Yeah, he's not wrong.
 
rka
2014-07-25 01:00:32 PM

roc6783: do your best to catch and punish cheaters, but when someone has the numbers that justify being enshrined among the sports' greatest, do it.


Why?

Just because a bunch of Ty Cobb jocksniffers chose to look the other way doesn't mean that today's writers have to.

You don't have to erase the stats of the roiders, the stats are there, anyone can look them up, but you certainly don't have to let them into the HoF either.
 
2014-07-25 01:03:47 PM

EyeballKid: What do Pujols's numbers in Anaheim look like right now? Hasn't got you wondering at all about those years in St. Louis?


1) New league, new pitchers
2) New league, different style of play
3) He's 34. The second oldest player on the Angel's roster and above the average age on any team in the league
4) After 14 years in the game, you're going to lose a step or two
 
2014-07-25 01:04:55 PM

sign_of_Zeta: So, can anyone tell me why steroid use was any worse the amphetamine use is the 70s, or steroid use that apparently occurred in the 60s?  Why is it that we demonize cheaters from 20 years ago and celebrate people like Hank Aaron who admitted to using greenies?

Hell, there are a lot of HOF who are celebrated for the way they would skirt the rules by modifying the ball.  Why are they any better than steroid users?


My opinion - it's because of Barry Bonds. He broke the game of baseball. As ridiculous as some single-season Sosa and McGwire numbers were, there are historic comparisons. Bonds took it to a whole other level and dominated the game in a way that a player shouldn't be able to. I think people look at that and draw conclusions about just how much PEDs can alter the balance of fair play.
 
2014-07-25 01:09:52 PM

senorpogo: My opinion - it's because of Barry Bonds. He broke the game of baseball. As ridiculous as some single-season Sosa and McGwire numbers were, there are historic comparisons. Bonds took it to a whole other level and dominated the game in a way that a player shouldn't be able to. I think people look at that and draw conclusions about just how much PEDs can alter the balance of fair play.


Probably, and I can understand former players gnashing their teeth at this stuff. If I spent the majority of my adolescence and adulthood playing the sport and going about it (in my mind) "the right way", I might take a very hard stance myself.

Any fans still worked up over PEDs though, especially with a few years now to digest all this and see just how pervasive their use was kinda weirds me out. Do they jerk off to middling players like Nick Punto or something?
 
2014-07-25 01:19:28 PM
They'll be let in as soon as their inclusion would sell more tickets to the building. Right now, that doesn't seem to be the case, since the only people willing to visit the building are purity hardliners
 
2014-07-25 01:21:28 PM

senorpogo: sign_of_Zeta: So, can anyone tell me why steroid use was any worse the amphetamine use is the 70s, or steroid use that apparently occurred in the 60s?  Why is it that we demonize cheaters from 20 years ago and celebrate people like Hank Aaron who admitted to using greenies?

Hell, there are a lot of HOF who are celebrated for the way they would skirt the rules by modifying the ball.  Why are they any better than steroid users?

My opinion - it's because of Barry Bonds. He broke the game of baseball. As ridiculous as some single-season Sosa and McGwire numbers were, there are historic comparisons. Bonds took it to a whole other level and dominated the game in a way that a player shouldn't be able to. I think people look at that and draw conclusions about just how much PEDs can alter the balance of fair play.


I think it's the money.  The players who were steroid free look at all the money that was tossed around to players who got caught and that would make me bitter, regardless of whether or not I was "rich", I could've been richer.
 
2014-07-25 01:22:13 PM
Are all the speed freaks from the 70s in? Then yeah.
 
2014-07-25 01:25:22 PM
Considering that his entry into the Hall of Fame this weekend is in no small measure due to the accomplishment of juicers he had on his rosters, I guess he would feel that way.
 
2014-07-25 01:29:06 PM
I find it very difficult to believe that a manager went to the HOF as a direct result of using juicers would later defend people juicing. Maybe we should be asking if La Russa would have HOF numbers if he didn't have Hulk Hogan batting third fr years.
 
2014-07-25 01:32:00 PM

plushpuppy: Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts


No he doesn't. Look, steroids are against the rules, but baseball has lots of rules. But there's only ONE rule posted inside the door of every Major League club:

www.legendaryauctions.com

Pete Rose didn't just break A baseball rule...he broke THE baseball rule.
 
2014-07-25 01:45:42 PM
""If you were a Hall of Famer during that period as far as your pitching and playing, I would create some kind of asterisk, where everybody understands that, 'Look, we have some questions, but you were still the dominant pitchers and players of your time.'

"We have to acknowledge that that period for about 10 or 12 years, somewhere around the early '90s to the early 2000s, was a black spot, a negative mark in our history."

So LaRussa is advocating putting an asterisk next to his own name in the hall, right?
 
2014-07-25 01:48:40 PM

OrangeFree: EyeballKid: What do Pujols's numbers in Anaheim look like right now? Hasn't got you wondering at all about those years in St. Louis?

1) New league, new pitchers
2) New league, different style of play
3) He's 34. The second oldest player on the Angel's roster and above the average age on any team in the league
4) After 14 years in the game, you're going to lose a step or two


His steep decline started when he was 31 and he was in the National League. His body started falling apart at 31. There are several possible reasons for this. He could be unlucky. He may not have actually been 31. Or his body was pushed beyond its natural limits.

I wonder what the Angels could do with the $210MM remaining on his contract?
 
2014-07-25 01:50:40 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: But there's only ONE rule posted inside the door of every Major League club:


In its stead, NBA clubs post up the Birmingham Barons' schedule.
 
2014-07-25 01:51:12 PM

plushpuppy: Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts


bioproj.sabr.org

Disagrees.
 
2014-07-25 01:51:43 PM
La Russa, who managed the White Sox, Athletics and Cardinals between 1979 and 2011,...

"I know that there's people that have accused me because of some of the guys that helped us win in Oakland and St. Louis...


Makes me happy to see that Chicago isn't in that second quote.

/I'm not against steroid users being in the hall of fame
//it sucks they became such a huge part of the game, but they were for over a decade without testing. it's difficult to ignore a full decade of players
///what asshole at Mozilla messed up the find feature, which causes it to look for something I copied earlier instead of what I have highlighted?
 
2014-07-25 01:54:32 PM
Tony Larussa reminds me of a guy sitting in a small town bar in some flyover state.
 
2014-07-25 01:58:19 PM

Moopy Mac: His steep decline started when he was 31 and he was in the National League. His body started falling apart at 31. There are several possible reasons for this. He could be unlucky. He may not have actually been 31. Or his body was pushed beyond its natural limits.

I wonder what the Angels could do with the $210MM remaining on his contract?


This is the most likely reason.  His age was always a question mark and his drop off fits the time most players start to drop off.

senorpogo: My opinion - it's because of Barry Bonds. He broke the game of baseball. As ridiculous as some single-season Sosa and McGwire numbers were, there are historic comparisons. Bonds took it to a whole other level and dominated the game in a way that a player shouldn't be able to. I think people look at that and draw conclusions about just how much PEDs can alter the balance of fair play.


You could say that about any of the great that have done that.  Think about Hank Aaron.  Could he have played all the games he played and have home runs without greenies?  What about Willie Mays?

Bonds was awful and I don't care if his HOF plaque is all about steroid use, but to enshrine other cheaters but not him is hypocritical.  The only reason it happens is the Baseball writers deify the people they grew up watching and ignore that there were as much cheaters as today's players.
 
2014-07-25 01:59:27 PM

puckrock2000: plushpuppy: Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts

[bioproj.sabr.org image 378x480]

Disagrees.


The difference between Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe (even though I don't know if it is an important difference) is that Shoeless Joe admitted to not going all out in the 1919 World Series. Pete Rose said he just bet on the Reds to win (which is a stupid excuse) or didn't bet on them at all.

/The Reds would have won that WS anyway. They did have a better regular season record than the White Sox.
 
2014-07-25 02:00:21 PM

plushpuppy: Pete Rose deserves to be in before these drug addicts


This.

Yes Betting on Baseball is bad but I have never seen anything that suggests Rose did anything to throw games to win bets on the Reds.  Mind there was not alot he could do with out drawing scrutiny upon his management of the team.

Also his initial lying about it does not help.    put an asterisk by his name if you must but he belongs in especially if they let the juicers in.
 
2014-07-25 02:01:15 PM
The Hall of Fame is already full of players who cheated in various ways. The crusade against *~steroids~* is laughable.

senorpogo: Bonds took it to a whole other level and dominated the game in a way that a player shouldn't be able to.


Pitchers took steroids too. Bonds had an unreal level of dominance because he was the best ever. We should marvel at that, not tear it down because he didn't trust sportswriters (and it turns out he was right not to).
 
2014-07-25 02:05:44 PM

ElwoodCuse: The Hall of Fame is already full of players who cheated in various ways.


As much as I object (and rather huffily at that I'll concede) to accepting the PED players into the HOF, you make a valid point. My favorite example of Baseball's Famous Juicers(soon to be title of the wing of the HOF that Bonds, Sosa, et al will be featured in) is Pud Galvin, the first ever 300 game winner who, in 1889, took an elixir containing monkey testosterone before a game.
 
2014-07-25 02:06:00 PM
Maybe he's going for the WWE's logic. I think 'roids are actually a requirement to get into the WWE Hall of Fame.
 
2014-07-25 02:07:07 PM

grimlock1972: Yes Betting on Baseball is bad but I have never seen anything that suggests Rose did anything to throw games to win bets on the Reds.  Mind there was not alot he could do with out drawing scrutiny upon his management of the team.


First off, whether or not Rose "threw" games is irrelevant.  Secondly, he chose not to bet on the Reds when specific pitchers were on the mound, and that's a pretty good indicator to bookies, isn't it?
 
2014-07-25 02:08:11 PM

Moopy Mac: Pete Rose said he just bet on the Reds to win (which is a stupid excuse) or didn't bet on them at all.


You're missing the point. Pete didn't have to bet against his team. The days that he didn't bet on his team told the bookies all they needed to know.

The Black Sox scandal almost ended professional baseball in America. So MLB made it abundantly clear to all involved that betting on baseball is the cardinal sin. They actually posted that rule inside every Major League clubhouse. Pete walked past that sign every day of his playing career, and every day of his managing career.
 
2014-07-25 02:21:42 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Moopy Mac: Pete Rose said he just bet on the Reds to win (which is a stupid excuse) or didn't bet on them at all.

You're missing the point. Pete didn't have to bet against his team. The days that he didn't bet on his team told the bookies all they needed to know.

The Black Sox scandal almost ended professional baseball in America. So MLB made it abundantly clear to all involved that betting on baseball is the cardinal sin. They actually posted that rule inside every Major League clubhouse. Pete walked past that sign every day of his playing career, and every day of his managing career.


I agree, that's why I said it was a stupid excuse. I'm a lifelong Reds fan and I hope he never makes it into the HOF.
 
2014-07-25 02:22:03 PM

Moopy Mac: OrangeFree: EyeballKid: What do Pujols's numbers in Anaheim look like right now? Hasn't got you wondering at all about those years in St. Louis?

1) New league, new pitchers
2) New league, different style of play
3) He's 34. The second oldest player on the Angel's roster and above the average age on any team in the league
4) After 14 years in the game, you're going to lose a step or two

His steep decline started when he was 31 and he was in the National League. His body started falling apart at 31. There are several possible reasons for this. He could be unlucky. He may not have actually been 31. Or his body was pushed beyond its natural limits.

I wonder what the Angels could do with the $210MM remaining on his contract?


He also had a steep decline when MLB amped up their drug testing policies.

Not saying he is a user, but it would not shock me at all. And I say that as a huge fan of his
 
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