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(News.com.au)   News: Russian newspaper prints front-page apology to MH17 victims. Not news: Russian newspaper that has seen four of its journalists murdered since 2001   (news.com.au) divider line 68
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3649 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2014 at 12:09 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2014-07-25 09:08:12 AM  
This story was published: 5 hours ago

So it's probably at least five by now.
 
2014-07-25 10:34:22 AM  
Putin seen checking on his polonium supply.
 
2014-07-25 12:10:07 PM  

vpb: So it's probably at least five by now.


This. A week at the latest...
 
2014-07-25 12:11:51 PM  
Even newsier: a newspaper that was founded by Mikhail Gorbachev himself using the money he got for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

And yeah I see it getting shut down right damn quick either by security forces or a raid by "Cossack vandals"
 
2014-07-25 12:12:45 PM  
If you see a man with an umbrella, run away.
 
2014-07-25 12:13:21 PM  
So does 1 editor equal 4 journalists?
 
2014-07-25 12:15:07 PM  

Magorn: Even newsier: a newspaper that was founded by Mikhail Gorbachev himself using the money he got for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

And yeah I see it getting shut down right damn quick either by security forces or a raid by "Cossack vandals"


I don't think even Putin has the stones to mess with Gorby
 
2014-07-25 12:16:31 PM  
Expect more.
 
2014-07-25 12:18:19 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Magorn: Even newsier: a newspaper that was founded by Mikhail Gorbachev himself using the money he got for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

And yeah I see it getting shut down right damn quick either by security forces or a raid by "Cossack vandals"

I don't think even Putin has the stones to mess with Gorby


www.chud.com

I knew it!
 
2014-07-25 12:18:32 PM  
FSB always are looking for an excuse to beat/kill someone. They even raid Jehovah's Witness places of worship with TV crews in tow. And I don't think the agents wanted the literature that badly.

I foresee two dead reports because of this article.
 
2014-07-25 12:19:38 PM  
No doubt the Kremlin's cyber trolls will be all over this one.  First, they say the Ukrainians blew it up, then they say MH17 was full of cadavers with the blood drained out of them.

What's next, Santa Claus was off course?
 
2014-07-25 12:21:31 PM  
Oh! Drtfa, but sounds like a legit news service...
 
2014-07-25 12:22:29 PM  
Isn't it ironic that a left-leaning newspaper is showing the better side of Russia today?

/Ya think?
 
2014-07-25 12:24:28 PM  
Tried to rtfa, but it mysteriously zeroes out.. hmm mite be real.
 
2014-07-25 12:24:53 PM  
Putin only has one item on his Amazon wish list:
files.abovetopsecret.com
 
2014-07-25 12:25:02 PM  
Good luck, journalists. You crazy kids should, probably, watch your asses for the foreseeable future.
 
2014-07-25 12:26:07 PM  
Well, they only intended to murder one journalist, but it turned out there were three progressively smaller ones inside.
 
2014-07-25 12:27:05 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: No doubt the Kremlin's cyber trolls will be all over this one.  First, they say the Ukrainians blew it up, then they say MH17 was full of cadavers with the blood drained out of them.

What's next, Santa Claus was off course?


img1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-07-25 12:31:05 PM  
Hate to say it, but we could maybe use a little of that on Rupe's Gang in this country.
 
2014-07-25 12:34:45 PM  
*sigh* It was only one day away from Caterday.

oi58.tinypic.com
 
2014-07-25 12:36:54 PM  
Meanwhile in American journalists are writing one sentence paragraphs and using the word "commentating."
 
2014-07-25 12:37:13 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: No doubt the Kremlin's cyber trolls will be all over this one.  First, they say the Ukrainians blew it up, then they say MH17 was full of cadavers with the blood drained out of them.

What's next, Santa Claus was off course?


They're saying that Ukraine shot it down using a Buk system during a missile practise that involved two SU-25 jets. And apparently the Buk doesn't really have a safe mode or something.

---

That newspaper seems to just be trolling though.
 
2014-07-25 12:38:22 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Well, they only intended to murder one journalist, but it turned out there were three progressively smaller ones inside.


Very nice, comrade. I lol'd.
 
2014-07-25 12:38:45 PM  

AirForceVet: Isn't it ironic that a left-leaning newspaper is showing the better side of Russia today?


The whole left/right paradigm really breaks down outside the Anglosphere. There's countries where what we'd consider the left-wingers are anti-immigrant and countries where the right-wingers are hostile towards religion. It's one of the reasons a lot of lefties prefer the term "progressive" to distinguish them from, say, FARC in Columbia.
 
2014-07-25 12:40:53 PM  

Rixel: Cdr.Murdock: No doubt the Kremlin's cyber trolls will be all over this one.  First, they say the Ukrainians blew it up, then they say MH17 was full of cadavers with the blood drained out of them.

What's next, Santa Claus was off course?

[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 640x360]


Yep, looks Ukrainian to me.  Thank you for the Pravda, Comrade!
 
2014-07-25 12:45:18 PM  

iheartscotch: Good luck, journalists. You crazy kids should, probably, watch your asses for the foreseeable future.


It sounds like someone needs to start working from home, and discover the deep nets. This is what it's really made for.

/supposedly Freenet too
//that was a joke
///try Freenet you'll see what I mean
 
2014-07-25 12:57:04 PM  
Oblig:

37.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-25 01:09:13 PM  
It actually is a relief to know not all Russians have bought the official lies. The cyber troll department of Russia is so vocal it's sometimes easy to think all Russians are insane psychopaths.
 
2014-07-25 01:11:50 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Well, they only intended to murder one journalist, but it turned out there were three progressively smaller ones inside.


LOL. I think you win the thread.
 
2014-07-25 01:13:11 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Magorn: Even newsier: a newspaper that was founded by Mikhail Gorbachev himself using the money he got for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

And yeah I see it getting shut down right damn quick either by security forces or a raid by "Cossack vandals"

I don't think even Putin has the stones to mess with Gorby


Yeah.  I am always surprised that he's still alive and active behind the scenes in Russian politics.  Good to know they've got some non-crazies over there.
 
2014-07-25 01:13:56 PM  

Gunther: AirForceVet: Isn't it ironic that a left-leaning newspaper is showing the better side of Russia today?

The whole left/right paradigm really breaks down outside the Anglosphere. There's countries where what we'd consider the left-wingers are anti-immigrant and countries where the right-wingers are hostile towards religion. It's one of the reasons a lot of lefties prefer the term "progressive" to distinguish them from, say, FARC in Columbia.


I've always looked at the "Left/Right" spectrum as a curve. Somewhere around the back it meets, and some guy on his CB radio with his gun racks in the back window of his pickup accidentally utters the word "proletariat" and he's magically transformed into a goatee sporting, beret wearing, Gauloises smoking hipster in a coffee shop.

Granted my metaphors are from yesteryear, but so am I.

My lawn. Get off it.
 
2014-07-25 01:22:41 PM  
Why wasn't it "простите нас" instead of "прости нас"?  They're talking to a whole darn country.
 
2014-07-25 01:28:23 PM  

Slaxl: It actually is a relief to know not all Russians have bought the official lies. The cyber troll department of Russia is so vocal it's sometimes easy to think all Russians are insane psychopaths.


Give Western Media some credit.
Rupe's Troops do a fine job of keeping "we" identified as "not they".
 
2014-07-25 01:29:22 PM  

AirForceVet: Isn't it ironic that a left-leaning newspaper is showing the better side of Russia today?

/Ya think?


That was my first thought - "left-leaning' in Russia seems so ... wrong ... should just be 'Russian Newspaper', alas Russia seems to be masters of making fascist look communist or in this case ... democratic? ... no 'Free' is better ... mmm ...OK fine, we shall go with 'Freer'!
 
2014-07-25 01:50:23 PM  
The people at Novaya Gazeta have enormous 'nads. Good on them. I hope nobody gets shot for this. :(
 
2014-07-25 01:55:56 PM  
Good for them. Evil succeeds when the good do nothing.
 
2014-07-25 02:03:26 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: No doubt the Kremlin's cyber trolls will be all over this one.  First, they say the Ukrainians blew it up, then they say MH17 was full of cadavers with the blood drained out of them.

What's next, Santa Claus was off course?


I saw this going around on VK (Russian facebook)

http://coub.com/view/2ld0u

First of all, glossing over the defilement of the cinematic masterpiece that is Eurotrip, the idea that Russia is simply being the hero and trying to protect and warn the rest of us from Nazi Ukraine is absolutely farking hilarious. Doubly so given the fact the a Nazi government in Kiev is nothing more than manufactured Kremlin propaganda. So like most Russian arguments in this thing, they would have a point if what they were talking about resembled reality in any way.
 
2014-07-25 02:06:49 PM  
To be fair thought the four deaths were totally accidental.
One accidentally fell on a bullet.
One was skydiving from a Russian military plane and forgot to put on a parachute
One was victim of a hit and run by a tank
And of course the last accidentally used the polonium shaker not the sale shaker on his food.

See totally innocent
 
2014-07-25 02:12:53 PM  

jchuffyman: Cdr.Murdock: No doubt the Kremlin's cyber trolls will be all over this one.  First, they say the Ukrainians blew it up, then they say MH17 was full of cadavers with the blood drained out of them.

What's next, Santa Claus was off course?

I saw this going around on VK (Russian facebook)

http://coub.com/view/2ld0u

First of all, glossing over the defilement of the cinematic masterpiece that is Eurotrip, the idea that Russia is simply being the hero and trying to protect and warn the rest of us from Nazi Ukraine is absolutely farking hilarious. Doubly so given the fact the a Nazi government in Kiev is nothing more than manufactured Kremlin propaganda. So like most Russian arguments in this thing, they would have a point if what they were talking about resembled reality in any way.


And to add to my point, it is weird that the Russian line seems to be bouncing between "we have nothing to do with this and are not supporting the insurgents in any way" and "we had to do it, to protect us and ethnic Russians from Nazis". They seem to do this without realizing that the second farking point completely negates the first one. Decide if you actually are helping destabilize Ukraine or not, and argue from there. Anything else makes it look like you are just saying any random bullshiat........oh wait
 
2014-07-25 02:32:41 PM  

IkonOlator: Why wasn't it "простите нас" instead of "прости нас"?  They're talking to a whole darn country.


So? They are talking to a country. Singular. Thus  "прости нас".Grammatically completely correct. If they'd used plural, it would be towards "Dutch", not the country.

jchuffyman: And to add to my point, it is weird that the Russian line seems to be bouncing between "we have nothing to do with this and are not supporting the insurgents in any way" and "we had to do it, to protect us and ethnic Russians from Nazis".


That's because there are more than one point of view in Russia, you know. Different people see the situation different. You know, like, Democrats and Republicans? MSNBC and Fox News? Some media sources offer one justification, other argue from completely different position, and the population itself is just repeating whatever point of view they like most.
 
2014-07-25 02:34:42 PM  

Grahor: IkonOlator: Why wasn't it "простите нас" instead of "прости нас"?  They're talking to a whole darn country.

So? They are talking to a country. Singular. Thus  "прости нас".Grammatically completely correct. If they'd used plural, it would be towards "Dutch", not the country.

jchuffyman: And to add to my point, it is weird that the Russian line seems to be bouncing between "we have nothing to do with this and are not supporting the insurgents in any way" and "we had to do it, to protect us and ethnic Russians from Nazis".

That's because there are more than one point of view in Russia, you know. Different people see the situation different. You know, like, Democrats and Republicans? MSNBC and Fox News? Some media sources offer one justification, other argue from completely different position, and the population itself is just repeating whatever point of view they like most.


Um, then why have I heard both from the same person? I have personal contacts since I lived there for several years.
 
2014-07-25 02:40:01 PM  

jchuffyman: Um, then why have I heard both from the same person?


Well, the possibilities are as follow:

1) the person tried to say that "Russia didn't do it, but even if it did, it would be because we had to do it." It's not exactly a contradiction.

2) There was some misunderstanding. After all, one of you was speaking a foreign language.

3) The person in question was a very special kind, capable of believing six impossible things before breakfast, so he heard all the points of view in the news and believed all of them simultaneously.

In any case, I don't think you can equate that person with whole of Russia.
 
2014-07-25 02:40:56 PM  

jchuffyman: Grahor: IkonOlator: Why wasn't it "простите нас" instead of "прости нас"?  They're talking to a whole darn country.

So? They are talking to a country. Singular. Thus  "прости нас".Grammatically completely correct. If they'd used plural, it would be towards "Dutch", not the country.

jchuffyman: And to add to my point, it is weird that the Russian line seems to be bouncing between "we have nothing to do with this and are not supporting the insurgents in any way" and "we had to do it, to protect us and ethnic Russians from Nazis".

That's because there are more than one point of view in Russia, you know. Different people see the situation different. You know, like, Democrats and Republicans? MSNBC and Fox News? Some media sources offer one justification, other argue from completely different position, and the population itself is just repeating whatever point of view they like most.

Um, then why have I heard both from the same person? I have personal contacts since I lived there for several years.


To clarify, the line of argument I personally have had several times, has been this. "Russia has nothing to do with this, but we are simply protecting ourselves from Nazis." Not quite said in only one sentence, and I have no sources given that these are private conversations, but many of your countrymen are simply throwing out any old bullshiat to take the blame away from Russia.
 
2014-07-25 02:45:21 PM  

Grahor: jchuffyman: Um, then why have I heard both from the same person?

Well, the possibilities are as follow:

1) the person tried to say that "Russia didn't do it, but even if it did, it would be because we had to do it." It's not exactly a contradiction.

2) There was some misunderstanding. After all, one of you was speaking a foreign language.

3) The person in question was a very special kind, capable of believing six impossible things before breakfast, so he heard all the points of view in the news and believed all of them simultaneously.

In any case, I don't think you can equate that person with whole of Russia.


1)Person was the wrong word, I should have said people.
2)Majority of these conversations were done using the old, we both understand both languages, so I'll write in mine and you write in yours.
3) You just described the vast majority of Russians I've met, particularly when they are arguing international politics.
 
2014-07-25 02:48:14 PM  

jchuffyman: To clarify, the line of argument I personally have had several times, has been this. "Russia has nothing to do with this, but we are simply protecting ourselves from Nazis." Not quite said in only one sentence, and I have no sources given that these are private conversations, but many of your countrymen are simply throwing out any old bullshiat to take the blame away from Russia.


Again, I can't say for certain what was said in conversations themselves, but as for the second part, yeah, Russians are particularly protective of Russia. There is a large number of psychological factors for that. A lot of people would defend Russia any way they could, without giving much thought if the defense make sense or if it's worth it, and call those who don't "blame Russia first traitors".

There are parallels with, say, US conservatives there, so I don't think it's that unique behavior. It's just very obvious.
 
2014-07-25 02:51:38 PM  
Only four? Must be a very small newspaper.
 
2014-07-25 02:52:20 PM  

jchuffyman: 3) You just described the vast majority of Russians I've met, particularly when they are arguing international politics.


*shrug* that depend on your circle of people you are arguing with. There is a significant part of populations who aren't educated enough to notice dissonance, they simply repeat the talking points (again, there are parallels with other countries). There is a significant population of people who are too emotionally involved into their protectiveness of Russia, so they can't afford to think about such things, and instead compartmentalize. Have you tried pointing out the dissonance? What happened then?
 
2014-07-25 02:56:28 PM  

Grahor: jchuffyman: To clarify, the line of argument I personally have had several times, has been this. "Russia has nothing to do with this, but we are simply protecting ourselves from Nazis." Not quite said in only one sentence, and I have no sources given that these are private conversations, but many of your countrymen are simply throwing out any old bullshiat to take the blame away from Russia.

Again, I can't say for certain what was said in conversations themselves, but as for the second part, yeah, Russians are particularly protective of Russia. There is a large number of psychological factors for that. A lot of people would defend Russia any way they could, without giving much thought if the defense make sense or if it's worth it, and call those who don't "blame Russia first traitors".

There are parallels with, say, US conservatives there, so I don't think it's that unique behavior. It's just very obvious.


I agree, but once again in my personal experience. It seems to me that lots of Russians like to take things personally. As an Americanm whenever something America did came up in conversation, I didn't think that person was insulting me, given that I am not the American government, and I have not had personal control over what America has done for the past 200+ years. And living in Russia, it came up a lot. However, when it came to criticizing Russian policy, even people who claimed to absolutely hate Putin (most of Moscow, it seems) would defend anything he did to me as an outsider, like I was saying that I had farked the mother of everyone in Russia. It reminds me a lot of Israel in that way. If you hint that you don't like Israeli policy, you must hate all Jews. Once again, personal experience, but repeated personal experience over the course of 3 years..
 
2014-07-25 03:00:04 PM  

jchuffyman: I agree, but once again in my personal experience. It seems to me that lots of Russians like to take things personally. As an Americanm whenever something America did came up in conversation, I didn't think that person was insulting me, given that I am not the American government, and I have not had personal control over what America has done for the past 200+ years. And living in Russia, it came up a lot. However, when it came to criticizing Russian policy, even people who claimed to absolutely hate Putin (most of Moscow, it seems) would defend anything he did to me as an outsider, like I was saying that I had farked the mother of everyone in Russia. It reminds me a lot of Israel in that way. If you hint that you don't like Israeli policy, you must hate all Jews. Once again, personal experience, but repeated personal experience over the course of 3 years..


It's the "Only we can do that to our pledges!" concept, I think. People often get defensive when you criticize their country, even parts of their country they themselves dislike, because they feel it's not your place to criticize and/or that you're doing it for sketchy reasons (e.g. because maybe you just don't like Russia itself, or something). It's not the most rational thing, but it's understandable.
 
2014-07-25 03:05:38 PM  

Inchoate: jchuffyman: I agree, but once again in my personal experience. It seems to me that lots of Russians like to take things personally. As an Americanm whenever something America did came up in conversation, I didn't think that person was insulting me, given that I am not the American government, and I have not had personal control over what America has done for the past 200+ years. And living in Russia, it came up a lot. However, when it came to criticizing Russian policy, even people who claimed to absolutely hate Putin (most of Moscow, it seems) would defend anything he did to me as an outsider, like I was saying that I had farked the mother of everyone in Russia. It reminds me a lot of Israel in that way. If you hint that you don't like Israeli policy, you must hate all Jews. Once again, personal experience, but repeated personal experience over the course of 3 years..

It's the "Only we can do that to our pledges!" concept, I think. People often get defensive when you criticize their country, even parts of their country they themselves dislike, because they feel it's not your place to criticize and/or that you're doing it for sketchy reasons (e.g. because maybe you just don't like Russia itself, or something). It's not the most rational thing, but it's understandable.


It is understandable, but being from the American South. I have never experienced the level of tribalism as I have in Russia, even working among and with the educated, mostly upper-middle/lower-upper class "elite" of Moscow. A good ol boy will hate everything about the US, but defend it against all outsiders. But, unlike what Grahor was trying to imply, I am not talking about poor white trash here.
 
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