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(CNN)   UN Secretary General to Hamas and Israeli forces: "This is wrong. You must stop fighting." Of course both sides lay down their weapons and hug each other   (cnn.com) divider line 142
    More: Unlikely, Gaza, dispute, Ben-Gurion, Israeli Security Forces, United Nations Relief, FAA, cease-fire  
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846 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2014 at 6:07 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



142 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-07-25 11:27:40 AM  
well I'm glad that got sorted out.
 
2014-07-25 11:46:37 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: well I'm glad that got sorted out.


Seriously.  I can't believe it took them this long to tell them.  Could have saved thousands of lives if they'd done this earlier.
 
2014-07-25 11:50:56 AM  
Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them
 
2014-07-25 12:18:18 PM  

vernonFL: Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them


This...isn't a bad idea.
 
2014-07-25 12:28:08 PM  
But then someone from Gaza threw a pencil at Bibi and the IDF shouted SELF DEFENSE while pouring white phosphorous on a completely unrelated family who were tied to the chair while the rest of the UN nodded in assent and sympathy.
 
2014-07-25 12:28:35 PM  

RedPhoenix122: vernonFL: Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them

This...isn't a bad idea.


put 'em in the same cell.

my money is on BeBe.
 
2014-07-25 12:36:57 PM  
.....upon hearing this, both sides lay down their weapons and hugged each other '

What rhymes with "hug me"?
 
2014-07-25 12:50:26 PM  

vernonFL: Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them


That'd be nice.
 
2014-07-25 01:08:08 PM  
Meh, he's just talking tough because the UN has admitted that they were housing weapons in one of their schools, and gee, they were going to had the weapons over to Israel in a few days, but gosh, the weapons have gone missing.
 
2014-07-25 02:37:08 PM  
www.db18.com
 
2014-07-25 02:52:42 PM  
"thousands of terrorists were meant to cross over to Israel from Gaza through the tunnels and kill and kidnap as many Israelis as they could. The source added that the army learned about the huge planned attack during the interrogations of Hamas prisoners, captured during Operation Protective Edge in Gaza."

Reports state that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu informed his cabinet about the foiled plot during a Thursday cabinet meeting. The leader of the Jewish State reportedly expressed to officials that if this attack was not stopped, the number of Israeli fatalities may have been higher than the over 2,200 deaths Israel suffered during 1973 Yom Kippur War.


they averted a planned attack by bulldozing those tunnels.
 
2014-07-25 06:08:56 PM  
img3.wikia.nocookie.net
Approves.
 
2014-07-25 06:11:30 PM  
I have a modest proposal. Can't we just let the Israelis have at the Muslims? If we turn and look the other way; we'll never have to worry about peace in the Middle East ever again. It sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the Muslim problem to me...
 
2014-07-25 06:13:54 PM  
If there was a God/Allah/Yahweh he/she would've sent a radioactive meteor to the Middle East 5000 years ago.
 
2014-07-25 06:14:01 PM  
And a sharply worded letter will certainly follow.
 
2014-07-25 06:14:51 PM  
Question. Would subby prefer a UN with the military muscle to enforce its mandates?

If the UN was ever able to exercise more power than strongly-worded letters, Americans would go guanopsychotic.
 
2014-07-25 06:16:27 PM  

iheartscotch: I have a modest proposal. Can't we just let the Israelis have at the Muslims? If we turn and look the other way; we'll never have to worry about peace in the Middle East ever again. It sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the Muslim problem to me...


Okay, as far as it goes - but to really make it a party, we need to provide the Palis with some reasonable parity in arms - some state of the art missiles, anti-aircraft systems, and a few small nukes.Make it a fight worth watching.
It doesn't really matter who "wins".
 
2014-07-25 06:16:57 PM  

Joelogon: .....upon hearing this, both sides lay down their weapons and hugged each other '

What rhymes with "hug me"?


Thug tree?
Mug bee?
Rug fee?

OH!

Rugby! Wait, what?
 
2014-07-25 06:17:03 PM  
Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.
 
2014-07-25 06:17:30 PM  

iheartscotch: I have a modest proposal. Can't we just let the Israelis have at the Muslims? If we turn and look the other way; we'll never have to worry about peace in the Middle East ever again. It sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the Muslim problem to me...


No Nuke ALL of them over there no matter what dipshiat religion/cultures  they belong to.
 
2014-07-25 06:17:41 PM  
A strongly-worded letter in favour of peace is a lot better than providing billions in armament funding for one side, and a few million in humanitarian aid for the other while pretending to want peace.
 
2014-07-25 06:18:42 PM  

wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.


Ding ding ding ding ding.
 
2014-07-25 06:19:42 PM  

iheartscotch: I have a modest proposal. Can't we just let the Israelis have at the Muslims? If we turn and look the other way; we'll never have to worry about peace in the Middle East ever again. It sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the Muslim problem to me...


And should we expect Ch
 
2014-07-25 06:20:57 PM  

wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.


You want to kill all Palestinians and Israelis? What's wrong with you?
 
2014-07-25 06:21:26 PM  
They'll probably drop bombs on some more UN shelters now.
 
2014-07-25 06:21:31 PM  

Krustofsky: iheartscotch: I have a modest proposal. Can't we just let the Israelis have at the Muslims? If we turn and look the other way; we'll never have to worry about peace in the Middle East ever again. It sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the Muslim problem to me...

And should we expect Ch


Dang phone...can we expect China and Russia to do the same?
 
2014-07-25 06:23:35 PM  
You know what, fark it. Just let the farkers duke it out until there's nothing left but smoldering ruins. All we do by delaying the inevitable is just prolong the suffering. The sane people, well, they should get the fark out until it's over.
 
2014-07-25 06:24:18 PM  

Stone Meadow: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

You want to kill all Palestinians and Israelis? What's wrong with you?


I'm going to go way out on a limb and say: "nothing".
 
2014-07-25 06:24:37 PM  
I am to the point with this that I wish Israel would just flatten the shiat out of everything. Go full Mongolian. fark it. Pave it over and use it as a airstrip or race track or something. Sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PNc9KN50M
 
2014-07-25 06:25:44 PM  
Of course it's wrong, Sherlock. Good luck finding a plan to stop it.
 
2014-07-25 06:27:39 PM  
Sum Ting Wong.
 
2014-07-25 06:28:08 PM  
Has the un appointed the corpse of idi amin to its humanitarian or human rights council yet?
 
2014-07-25 06:28:28 PM  

trotsky: I am to the point with this that I wish Israel would just flatten the shiat out of everything. Go full Mongolian. fark it. Pave it over and use it as a airstrip or race track or something. Sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PNc9KN50M


They much already are. But it's refreshing, in it's own sick and twisted way, to see those defending Israel crimes against humanity come right out in favour of genocide, instead of their usual tip-toeing around it.
 
2014-07-25 06:28:54 PM  

Stone Meadow: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

You want to kill all Palestinians and Israelis? What's wrong with you?


You might consult your local community college regarding a reading comprehension course. Firstly, I opted out of wanting to kill which you could understand via "almost". Next, many Israelis and many Palestinians would prefer if this entire nonsense went away. But even though I expect that is a majority on both sides, there's a reality of a hard core ~25% that will continue the belligerence, and, given that hard core, each side feels the need to protect themselves because somebody will be sure to relight whatever fires get put out.
 
2014-07-25 06:33:58 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-25 06:37:16 PM  

wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

You want to kill all Palestinians and Israelis? What's wrong with you?

You might consult your local community college regarding a reading comprehension course. Firstly, I opted out of wanting to kill which you could understand via "almost". Next, many Israelis and many Palestinians would prefer if this entire nonsense went away. But even though I expect that is a majority on both sides, there's a reality of a hard core ~25% that will continue the belligerence, and, given that hard core, each side feels the need to protect themselves because somebody will be sure to relight whatever fires get put out.


Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.
 
2014-07-25 06:37:26 PM  

Someothermonkey: trotsky: I am to the point with this that I wish Israel would just flatten the shiat out of everything. Go full Mongolian. fark it. Pave it over and use it as a airstrip or race track or something. Sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PNc9KN50M

They much already are. But it's refreshing, in it's own sick and twisted way, to see those defending Israel crimes against humanity come right out in favour of genocide, instead of their usual tip-toeing around it.


By all accounts, the largest estimated death toll is 848 Palestinians.

PRO-TIP: 848 dead does not a "genocide" make.

And ya' know what else? That 848 would be a lot lower if Hamas could refrain from using the Palestinian populace as human shields.
 
2014-07-25 06:37:36 PM  

wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.


what Hamas using human shields looks like:
www.imemc.org

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
algerienetwork.com

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.
 
2014-07-25 06:44:45 PM  

Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: 
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.


Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.
 
2014-07-25 06:44:45 PM  

Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.


Wait are you telling me that clever cartoon with the brave israeli soldiers protecting kids isn't real life?

/that's is what institutionalized racism looks like
 
2014-07-25 06:49:06 PM  
Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.
 
2014-07-25 06:53:14 PM  

Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.


Your "logic" is rather strained. Abuses by the IDF do not change Hamas launching missiles from schools or other civilian cover. My point (part of my point anyway) is that wrongs by one side do not excuse wrongs by the other side. Essentially, we have guerrilla warfare on both sides. It is "short term" effective, for both sides. But nobody pushing the conflict seem genuinely interested in the welfare of your average Palestinian. And few pushing the conflict are actually interested in the general welfare of an average Israeli, or if they are, they are simultaneously ambivalent(at best) about the welfare of the 'other side'.
 
2014-07-25 06:58:42 PM  

SlothB77: "thousands of terrorists were meant to cross over to Israel from Gaza through the tunnels and kill and kidnap as many Israelis as they could. The source added that the army learned about the huge planned attack during the interrogations of Hamas prisoners, captured during Operation Protective Edge in Gaza."

Reports state that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu informed his cabinet about the foiled plot during a Thursday cabinet meeting. The leader of the Jewish State reportedly expressed to officials that if this attack was not stopped, the number of Israeli fatalities may have been higher than the over 2,200 deaths Israel suffered during 1973 Yom Kippur War.

they averted a planned attack by bulldozing those tunnels.


Somehow this would be the Jews fault too. Thanks fark for totally bring racist as hell.
 
2014-07-25 07:00:36 PM  

Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:


Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:


/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.


Out of context pictures. You convinced me!
 
2014-07-25 07:01:45 PM  

wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: 
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.


Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.
 
2014-07-25 07:10:14 PM  

RedPhoenix122: vernonFL: Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them

This...isn't a bad idea.


/i can see the leader of Hamas getting arrested for lobbing rockets into civilian areas, and they are coming out of civilian areas as well.  What do you suggest the Israelis do? They have to shoot back at something.  So they shoot back at where the rockets come from.  Then the derpers in hamas film the casualties in Gaza, and say "omg....look at how bad Israel is...they are bombing CHILDREN".  When it was Hamas that started it by firing weapons out of Gaza neighborhoods.   Propaganda...look it up.
 
2014-07-25 07:14:06 PM  

Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.


Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.
 
2014-07-25 07:18:16 PM  
1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)
 
2014-07-25 07:19:01 PM  

Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: 
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.


Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.
 
2014-07-25 07:21:33 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)


The "mow the grass" policy that propagandists keep bragging about actually makes israel complicit in all of this.
 
2014-07-25 07:25:11 PM  

unlikely: But then someone from Gaza threw a pencil at Bibi and the IDF shouted SELF DEFENSE while pouring white phosphorous on a completely unrelated family who were tied to the chair while the rest of the UN nodded in assent and sympathy.


LOL, when has the UN ever approved of anything Israel does?
 
2014-07-25 07:27:15 PM  

Daedalus27: unlikely: But then someone from Gaza threw a pencil at Bibi and the IDF shouted SELF DEFENSE while pouring white phosphorous on a completely unrelated family who were tied to the chair while the rest of the UN nodded in assent and sympathy.

LOL, when has the UN ever approved of anything Israel does?


They're pretty consistent in their opposition to melting humans.
 
2014-07-25 07:29:26 PM  
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-Golda Meir
 
2014-07-25 07:36:35 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: RedPhoenix122: vernonFL: Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them

This...isn't a bad idea.

/i can see the leader of Hamas getting arrested for lobbing rockets into civilian areas, and they are coming out of civilian areas as well.  What do you suggest the Israelis do? They have to shoot back at something.  So they shoot back at where the rockets come from.  Then the derpers in hamas film the casualties in Gaza, and say "omg....look at how bad Israel is...they are bombing CHILDREN".  When it was Hamas that started it by firing weapons out of Gaza neighborhoods.   Propaganda...look it up.


I've got an idea. Quit carrying water for religious extremists!
 
2014-07-25 07:38:02 PM  

Moopy Mac: Bit'O'Gristle: RedPhoenix122: vernonFL: Charge both Netanyahu and Meshaal with war crimes.

Arrest them

This...isn't a bad idea.

/i can see the leader of Hamas getting arrested for lobbing rockets into civilian areas, and they are coming out of civilian areas as well.  What do you suggest the Israelis do? They have to shoot back at something.  So they shoot back at where the rockets come from.  Then the derpers in hamas film the casualties in Gaza, and say "omg....look at how bad Israel is...they are bombing CHILDREN".  When it was Hamas that started it by firing weapons out of Gaza neighborhoods.   Propaganda...look it up.

I've got an idea. Quit carrying water for religious extremists!




/Sense, your post makes none.
 
2014-07-25 07:38:04 PM  

Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


Doesn't help that Israel knows the building still have civies in them, but bombs them anyways.  That makes it a war crime as far as i'm concerned.
 
2014-07-25 07:38:18 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Daedalus27: unlikely: But then someone from Gaza threw a pencil at Bibi and the IDF shouted SELF DEFENSE while pouring white phosphorous on a completely unrelated family who were tied to the chair while the rest of the UN nodded in assent and sympathy.

LOL, when has the UN ever approved of anything Israel does?

They're pretty consistent in their opposition to melting humans.


If they were, where have the hundreds of declarations against Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, or other organizations that have attacked Israel over the years with unguided rockets and bombings.  I am fine with giving Israel shiat for all the horrors of their policy (settlements, collective punishment, etc.)  if they would at least cast their gaze somewhat equally.  It is kinda hard to take the criticism seriously when Israel when trying to target military forces is getting lambasted in the media and UN, yet the Hamas firing rockets indiscriminantly at civilian targets which thankfully are largely protected by defensive measures like Iron Dome.  Would there be less criticism if there was a thousand Israeli deaths if Hamas was more competent in their attacks in the present round of the conflict?
 
2014-07-25 07:39:59 PM  

wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: 
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.

Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.


No, it's your fault for trying to appear more clever than you are. But sticking with the ad hominem is a nice touch.
 
2014-07-25 07:43:27 PM  

Eshkar: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-Golda Meir


Why? Because the Israeli government is perfectly willing to kill Palestinian children?
Is there a better example of a lose/lose scenario?

static.giantbomb.com
 
2014-07-25 07:46:14 PM  

Antimatter: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.

Doesn't help that Israel knows the building still have civies in them, but bombs them anyways.  That makes it a war crime as far as i'm concerned ...


/Its not Israels fault the terrorists use Gaza residents as human meat shields / victims for propaganda.  What would you suggest Israel do?  Just lay back and suck up the rockets and do nothing?  fark that, fire back, i would, you would, and so does Israel.  The terrorists using Gaza civilians as shields, and their subsequent deaths are nobody's fault but Hamas and others of their ilk.  If you can't see that, I'm sorry, i have explained it as clearly as i could.
 
2014-07-25 07:48:02 PM  

Antimatter: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.

Doesn't help that Israel knows the building still have civies in them, but bombs them anyways.  That makes it a war crime as far as i'm concerned ...


Well I am glad you don't get to decide war crimes... Hamas is using that location to fire on Israel; according to international law Hamas is responsible for the loss of civilian lives in such a situation.  They have committed the war crime not Israel.  Also Israel doesn't usually know civilians are present.  When Israeli Pilots see evidence of Civilians... like when Hamas parades them on roof tops the Pilots will call off the attack.  Israel is acting under the assumption that once proper notification is given the premises are no longer occupied.

The war crimes are digging terror tunnels into Israel with the plan to use them to attack and kill innocent Israelis during Rosh Hashanah.
 
2014-07-25 07:48:34 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: If there was a God/Allah/Yahweh he/she would've sent a radioactive meteor to the Middle East 5000 years ago.


moviebyte.com

I think he did.

worldnewspress.net
 
2014-07-25 07:50:07 PM  

Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: 
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.

Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.

No, it's your fault for trying to appear more clever than you are. But sticking with the ad hominem is a nice touch.


Speaking of hypocrisy, do you realize that your retort is pure ad hominem? In contrast, I provided an exposition that corrected your strained interpretation of my post. I admit I insult you after providing a actual argument about why your were wrong. In contrast, you merely insult me. So in a game of intellectual limbo, you win. I cannot bend my spine enough to go lower than you.
 
2014-07-25 07:54:15 PM  

wademh: Eshkar: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-Golda Meir

Why? Because the Israeli government is perfectly willing to kill Palestinian children?
Is there a better example of a lose/lose scenario?

[static.giantbomb.com image 246x319]


No, Hamas is more than willing to make their Children martyrs to destroy Israel.  They teach them from a young age that there is nothing more important than destroying Israel and there is nothing more glorious than sacrificing themselves to do so.  What Prime Minister Golda Meir was saying is that once the Arabs love their children enough to not teach them to kill themselves in the pursuit of destroying Israel then... and only then can there truly be peace.

Don't twist Golda Meir's words...
 
2014-07-25 07:56:12 PM  

wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh:
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.

Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.


Wow. You just turned the bullshiat up to 11 with that one. Keep digging that hole...
 
2014-07-25 08:00:05 PM  

wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: 
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.

Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.

No, it's your fault for trying to appear more clever than you are. But sticking with the ad hominem is a nice touch.

Speaking of hypocrisy, do you realize that your retort is pure ad hominem? In contrast, I provided an exposition that corrected your strained interpretation of my post. I admit I insult you after providing a actual argument about why your were wrong. In contrast, you merely insult me. So in a game of intellectual limbo, you win. I cannot bend my spine enough to go lower than you.


.... I see you have.
 
2014-07-25 08:00:29 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)


8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you never ever lose your shiat when one of your own dies. COIN ops 101. Israel has not and does not want to do the right thing, so why are we still supporting them?
 
2014-07-25 08:04:19 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: /Its not Israels fault the terrorists use Gaza residents as human meat shields / victims for propaganda.  What would you suggest Israel do?  Just lay back and suck up the rockets and do nothing?  fark that, fire back, i would, you would, and so does Israel.  The terrorists using Gaza civilians as shields, and their subsequent deaths are nobody's fault but Hamas and others of their ilk.  If you can't see that, I'm sorry, i have explained it as clearly as i could.


You are correct that Hamas is all too willing, perhaps even anxious, to use innocent human shields for their attacks on Israel. In fact, the "value" of their attacks are probably more in the retaliatory casualties (as a propaganda tool) than in any damage they do to Israel or Israelis. It's a painful cynicism.

But you ask, "what do you suggest Israel do? "

Well I suggest they not continue to add and support settlements in the occupied territories. I suggest they back off the economic oppression of the territories. I suggest they stop aggressively supplying motivation for Hamas to attack Israel.

Both sides are so hell bent self-justified that they apparently think that they can engage in immoral activity that will induce "worse" immoral activity in their foes. The whole of the conflict has devolved into self-justified moralizing that their actions are worse than mine.

It's long past time to quit buying what either side is selling. "He hit me first" is not legitimate.
 
2014-07-25 08:05:40 PM  

nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you never ever lose your shiat w ...


/Why are you defending terrorists? Who's side are you on? If you love them so much, go join up.  You might look good in a towel for a hat.
 
2014-07-25 08:07:18 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Antimatter: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.

Doesn't help that Israel knows the building still have civies in them, but bombs them anyways.  That makes it a war crime as far as i'm concerned ...

/Its not Israels fault the terrorists use Gaza residents as human meat shields / victims for propaganda.  What would you suggest Israel do?  Just lay back and suck up the rockets and do nothing?  fark that, fire back, i would, you would, and so does Israel.  The terrorists using Gaza civilians as shields, and their subsequent deaths are nobody's fault but Hamas and others of their ilk.  If you can't see that, I'm sorry, i have explained it as clearly as i could.


See my previous post. I would not blindly bomb. And the fact you think everyone else would speaks volumes about yourself. No, I would do the right thing which means getting in there and fixing the problem, not throwing high explosives at it and hope it stops.
 
2014-07-25 08:09:12 PM  

spacelord321: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh:
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.

Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.

Wow. You just turned the bullshiat up to 11 with that one. Keep digging that hole...


You don't seem able to actually address his logic, and that is presumably the essence of your response.
 
2014-07-25 08:12:30 PM  

J Noble Daggett: spacelord321: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh: Stone Meadow: wademh:
Get down off your high horse. If you want to weasel out of my point by attacking my supposed lack of reading comprehension then consider that I ended the sentence with an interrogative, implying an open question. I'm just sick and tired of "glass parking lot" replies, and your veiled reference happened to be the one I chose to respond to.

Then, you have chosen __poorly__. As it was clear I dismissed the "glass parking lot" option by saying that would make me as bad as the people who I am so frustrated with. So I repeat my comment about reading comprehension.

Not hardly. You wrote, "I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack."

It's acknowledging it's suicidal nature, but says NOTHING about it making you as bad as those with whom you are so frustrated with.

Well then, I guess if you are OK with suicide attacks that might be true. It is my fault for presuming that suicide attacks are self-evidently evil, and further that there is an added hypocrisy alluded to in hating people who are consumed with hate so much that you kill them. I did not spell that out for you. Apologies for over-estimating my audience.

Wow. You just turned the bullshiat up to 11 with that one. Keep digging that hole...

You don't seem able to actually address his logic, and that is presumably the essence of your response.


I saw no logic. I saw someone performing mental gymnastics to convince him/herself that they were right.
 
2014-07-25 08:17:15 PM  

Eshkar: wademh: Eshkar: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-Golda Meir

Why? Because the Israeli government is perfectly willing to kill Palestinian children?
Is there a better example of a lose/lose scenario?

[static.giantbomb.com image 246x319]

No, Hamas is more than willing to make their Children martyrs to destroy Israel.  They teach them from a young age that there is nothing more important than destroying Israel and there is nothing more glorious than sacrificing themselves to do so.  What Prime Minister Golda Meir was saying is that once the Arabs love their children enough to not teach them to kill themselves in the pursuit of destroying Israel then... and only then can there truly be peace.

Don't twist Golda Meir's words...


Please explain where I twisted her words. You have asserted this generic about how effectively all Palestinians train all their children to be suicide bombers. Sorry, but that's superficial bullpuckey. At the same time, there is a significant minority that do so. There is also a significant minority of Israelis that are uber-zionists who think Jews should take over all of Palestine. Extremes exist.

I object to the attitude that it is all up to "them". It is not completely one sided and attitudes that it is all up to the 'other side' are the essence of the conflict. And that is the essence of her words.
 
2014-07-25 08:17:57 PM  
Nubserz, I never said, EVERYONE should blindly bomb...tyvm. I said...HAMAS fires unguided rockets into civilian areas.  Israel uses guided munitions, AND they actually warn people beforehand.  Try reading my post before you assume to know my personality.  And your "fix it" of "getting in there and fixing the problem" is crap.  That "plan" lacks..well..plan. "Get in there and fix it" is pretty vague dude. Try again, you could always fall back to insulting me again if you have no valid plan / argument.  Seems to be working for you so far.
 
2014-07-25 08:18:26 PM  

nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you never ever lose your shiat w ...


Number 1.... Israel has not committed war crimes.

Number 2. Israel has tried the whole lets be friends shtick... it didn't work, they destroyed anything we gave them to help them economically... because the Jews gave it to them, they crossed the borders with bombs strapped to themselves and blew up buses full of civilians, coffee shops, and etc.

Number 3. Fighting a war in a foreign country is much different than fighting one an hour or two from your own HOUSE.

Number 4.  Something evidently you don't grasp nor does most the rest of world who isn't living it, Israel is under constant attack... and giving up settlements and doing the whole "Two State" "solution" isn't going to solve the problem... these people's mandate is to literally  wipe Israel off the map.  You could give them the West Bank and Jerusalem and next week they would be attacking Tel Aviv.

Israel is fighting for survival... not for oil, not as revenge for terrorist attacks... nope they are actually fighting for their very existence.  Within the vast terror tunnels Hamas built plans have been found for a massive attack on Israel during Rosh Hashanah... using terror tunnels to attack Israeli citizens... the plan was for mass slaughter.  Hamas being backed by Iran and Qatar (and who knows who else) are trying to wipe Israel off the map.  So call me when you are fighting an hour from your house for the very survival of your Homeland.  When your neighbors house had a rocket fall through the roof, when your cousin was sitting in a coffee shop enjoying his morning coffee and a suicide bomber detonated himself,  when your parents and grandparents have 20 - 30 seconds to make it to a bomb shelter before a rocket hits.
 
2014-07-25 08:21:43 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you never ever lose your shiat w ...

/Why are you defending terrorists? Who's side are you on? If you love them so much, go join up.  You might look good in a towel for a hat.


Oh I get it, your trolling. Either that or stupid. So let me break this down Barney style for you:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency

That's a decent overview of what counter insurgency operations are. Now, tell me, where in the hell does it say "blow up civilians." Don't pass the buck and say hamas does it. Everyone knows that. They are terrorists. But the Israeli government has the resources and backing to pull off a successful counter insurgency if they wanted to. But instead they just bomb. That doesn't solve anything. It makes the problem worse. If you don't believe that, look up the battle for Britain.

I know this because I was an infantryman in the marines for five years. I led patrols in Afghanistan, worked with the locals, and had friends get blown up. So kindly explain to me exactly what the fark have you done to improve the situation and what is your expertise? None? Then be quiet while the adults are talking.
 
2014-07-25 08:21:59 PM  

wademh: Eshkar: wademh: Eshkar: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-Golda Meir

Why? Because the Israeli government is perfectly willing to kill Palestinian children?
Is there a better example of a lose/lose scenario?

[static.giantbomb.com image 246x319]

No, Hamas is more than willing to make their Children martyrs to destroy Israel.  They teach them from a young age that there is nothing more important than destroying Israel and there is nothing more glorious than sacrificing themselves to do so.  What Prime Minister Golda Meir was saying is that once the Arabs love their children enough to not teach them to kill themselves in the pursuit of destroying Israel then... and only then can there truly be peace.

Don't twist Golda Meir's words...

Please explain where I twisted her words. You have asserted this generic about how effectively all Palestinians train all their children to be suicide bombers. Sorry, but that's superficial bullpuckey. At the same time, there is a significant minority that do so. There is also a significant minority of Israelis that are uber-zionists who think Jews should take over all of Palestine. Extremes exist.

I object to the attitude that it is all up to "them". It is not completely one sided and attitudes that it is all up to the 'other side' are the essence of the conflict. And that is the essence of her words.


I didn't say Palestinians... I said Hamas.  And it really is up to them.  As I have stated previously even if we did give them the West Bank and Jerusalem... they would be attacking Tel Aviv tomorrow. Their goal is to eradicate Israel.
 
2014-07-25 08:22:27 PM  

spacelord321: J Noble Daggett: spacelord321:
You don't seem able to actually address his logic, and that is presumably the essence of your response.

I saw no logic. I saw someone performing mental gymnastics to convince him/herself that they were right.


Consult your medical insurance and see if it cover optometry. Have then test for extreme perceptional bias.
 
2014-07-25 08:30:56 PM  
Nubzers,
First of all, if you WERE a marine, then thank you for your service. Second...bombs blow up terrorists. True, they also blow up civilians, but it's not Israels fault that the terrorists hide behind them. So if i get your post (without the crappy shiatty insults) you would advise that every time a rocket is fired from Gaza into Israel they should mount a counter-insurgency operation into Gaza? LOL. Man, that's not gonna happen. Those farkers are firing hundreds of rockets a day from all over Gaza. The only way YOUR idea would work, is to occupy Gaza forever, and that's not going to happen either. You would suggest that every time a rocket is fired, they send in men. Men who would likely die. I was in the Army long ago, and i have to say, I'm glad your ass wasn't my Sgt. You would have gotten us all fragged with your derpy laden plan of SOP.
 
2014-07-25 08:38:02 PM  

nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you neve ...


You don't intentionally blow up civilians,  however when civilians are occupying a military site or actively run into an area that has been warned an attack is imminent, can you really consider them civilians at that point?  You can absolutely kill civilians in attacks if the military value of an attack outweighs the collateral damage.   If there is a rocket launch site and munitions storage facility capable of supplying an attack on an area that is also occupied by a family or two, you can be military justified in destroying that facility even with civilians present.  Heck, you are almost obligated to do so since if you don't hit that target, you are allowing the enemy to use human shields to commit harm on your own people.

Ultimately, few people want civilians to die in war.  It is counterproductive to the objectives of a campaign. The fact that civilians die is horrible, but that doesn't make it a war crime.  Screaming it as such fails to understand the nature and laws of war.  Furthermore it tends to overlook the actual war crimes being committed by those targeted by Israel of utilizing human shields, launching indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilian areas, and other associated crimes.

I am not suggesting that Israel is innocent or that the Palestinians don't have legitimate grievances against Israeli policy.  Economic blockades, collective punishment on society as well as individual families with the destruction of "terrorist houses", increased settlement building, etc., these are horribly unproductive actions harming the Palestinians.  They certainly fuel the resentment and frustration that allow for hostilities to commence.  However, this negative conduct by Israel does not excuse the actual war crimes being committed by Hamas nor does it render that Israeli military action is inappropriate in response.
 
2014-07-25 08:45:18 PM  

nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you neve ...


Let me spell this out for you Marine... you don't understand the situation on the ground.  What you experienced in Afghanistan is different from what is occurring in Israel.  In Iraq and Afghanistan the US bombed the crap out of both theaters before boots touched the ground... how many innocent civilians died?  Israel did the same, we weren't sending soldiers in to conduct a proper counter insurgency until Hamas was drove to ground... well for them underground. Israeli Pilots have standing orders that they can call off attacks if they see or suspect civilians are present... and they have many many times.  The problem is a lot of the time a rocket is fired the jet goes in and the pilot sees heat signature in the building.. .but since they just launched a terrorist rocket at his house or neighbors house he is going to fire unless he sees proof something that makes him believe there are civilians in that house.  If Hamas is making civilians stay in that house it isn't the pilots or Israel's fault... it is Hamas' fault.  Sadly bad shiat happens in war, but hopefully these poor people will soon be freed from Hamas and allowed to live a full life free of oppression.
 
2014-07-25 08:49:21 PM  
Eshkar, Favorited. FINALLY a voice of clear reason and logic.

/jesus.
 
2014-07-25 08:50:38 PM  

MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.


Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?
 
2014-07-25 08:53:32 PM  

Eshkar: Let me spell this out for you Marine... you don't understand the situation on the ground. What you experienced in Afghanistan is different from what is occurring in Israel. In Iraq and Afghanistan the US bombed the crap out of both theaters before boots touched the ground... how many innocent civilians died? Israel did the same, we weren't sending soldiers in to conduct a proper counter insurgency until Hamas was drove to ground... well for them underground. Israeli Pilots have standing orders that they can call off attacks if they see or suspect civilians are present... and they have many many times. The problem is a lot of the time a rocket is fired the jet goes in and the pilot sees heat signature in the building.. .but since they just launched a terrorist rocket at his house or neighbors house he is going to fire unless he sees proof something that makes him believe there are civilians in that house. If Hamas is making civilians stay in that house it isn't the pilots or Israel's fault... it is Hamas' fault. Sadly bad shiat happens in war, but hopefully these poor people will soon be freed from Hamas and allowed to live a full life free of oppression.


BS BS BS.
Israel is in complete denial of the fact that it is illegally occupying the territories and subjugating the Palestinian people. Yes, there exists an element of self-defense in their actions but that does not matter one wit to most of the individuals who now live in the occupied territories. The individuals who were born in the occupied territories deserve better than they get under the Israeli occupation.

Israel is under threat from multiple powers in the region. That does not change anything for a person living in the occupied territories. They are under threat from Israel. The situation requires transcendence. Tit for tat, eye or an eye 'justice' resolves nothing.
 
2014-07-25 09:01:23 PM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.

Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?


Actually the US didn't buy Israel shiat.  Israel perfected the US anti-ballistic missile tech the US has never been able to get to work... Israel made it work so well it can take small rockets out (compared to a nuke).  The US paid for it... but what they paid for was Israeli tech know how.
 
2014-07-25 09:12:07 PM  

J Noble Daggett: spacelord321: J Noble Daggett: spacelord321:
You don't seem able to actually address his logic, and that is presumably the essence of your response.

I saw no logic. I saw someone performing mental gymnastics to convince him/herself that they were right.

Consult your medical insurance proctologist and see if it covers optometry butt-hurt.


FTFY
 
2014-07-25 09:12:11 PM  
Stop!  Or I shall say, "Stop!" again.
 
2014-07-25 09:13:50 PM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.

Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?

Or Hamas can stop firing missiles into Isreal and using the poor people of gaza as human shields. Why would we give one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations a missile system? Because the arming of Isis is working out so well in Syria. Maybe a better solution would be Arabs turning on Hamas and saying hell no you are not putting your missiles in our homes, schools, or hospitals.
 
2014-07-25 09:14:31 PM  

Eshkar: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local leaders, and you neve ...

Let me spell this out for you Marine... you don't understand the situation on the ground.  What you experienced in Afghanistan is different from what is occurring in Israel.  In Iraq and Afghanistan the US bombed the crap out of both theaters before boots touched the ground... how many innocent civilians died?  Israel did the same, we weren't sending soldiers in to conduct a proper counter insurgency until Hamas was drove to ground... well for them underground. Israeli Pilots have standing orders that they can call off attacks if they see or suspect civilians are present... and they have many many times.  The problem is a lot of the time a rocket is fired the jet goes in and the pilot sees heat signature in the building.. .but since they just launched a terrorist rocket at his house or neighbors house he is going to fire unless he sees proof something that makes him believe there are civilians in that house.  If Hamas is making civilians stay in that house it isn't the pilots or Israel's fault... it is Hamas' fault.  Sadly bad shiat happens in war, but hopefully these poor people will soon be freed from Hamas and allowed to live a full life free of oppression.


I understand this. I was briefed time and time again on the law of ground warfare and when we were cleared to fire. If they fire from a hospital or mosque, you are allowed to fire back as they were the ones who violated the law. You are legally absolved as long as you use a proportionate response I.e they fire a rifle, return fire with your rifle, not a JDAM. Now, that's legally speaking of course, but when you start racking up a civilian body count while doing that, that's when you need to change your SOP. It doesn't comfort the family by saying "well, legally, we aren't wrong for killing your kid, he was just collateral." Yes, bad shiat happens in war, but if you aren't doing your best to prevent it, then you are complicit. And the war crimes I'm referring to are using white phosphorus in heavily populated areas with the intent of using it's incendiary effects to harm and kill. That is a war crime. As for occupying indefinitely, I don't think that would be a problem considering they are, as you say, only an hour from home and it directly threatens them. Counter insurgency is hard work. It is. The situation is complicated and difficult, but if all you want to do is repeat the same shiat as before, you get no sympathy. Bombings without a follow up on the ground is worse than useless, it's counter productive.
 
2014-07-25 09:16:56 PM  

Eshkar: Born_Again_Bavarian: MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.

Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?

Actually the US didn't buy Israel shiat.  Israel perfected the US anti-ballistic missile tech the US has never been able to get to work... Israel made it work so well it can take small rockets out (compared to a nuke).  The US paid for it... but what they paid for was Israeli tech know how.


Israel can't make anything on their own.

The IAF's air defense layout was initially equipped with two batteries funded by Israel, and was later upgraded to an additional two batteries that were funded by the US (so far, the US has funded construction for four Iron Dome batteries). The US Congress recently began the process to approve an additional grant of $600 million to fund four supplementary batteries and a substantial quantity of interception missiles.

Under the assumption that the special budget will be approved, the IDF is preparing to operate a total of ten Iron Dome batteries.


http://www.israeldefense.com/?CategoryID=411&ArticleID=1351

It should bother me that we are so blatantly taking sides in this conflict, but I can't help but chuckle at the idea that the IDF is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars ever time someone fires a $500 rocket out of Gaza (Even if it is US taxpayer money).  Someone in the US is getting really rich off of this.
 
2014-07-25 09:17:53 PM  
Don't make me flick the lights on and off.
 
2014-07-25 09:18:58 PM  

Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.



you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
newsjunkiepost.com
I understand that Israel is defending against the rockets coming from Gaza.
I just found it interesting when I looked up how many people have died from these rocket attacks, the answer shocked me.
Since 2001: 28.

How many people died in Gaza yesterday?


/really we can do this all day
//just GIS israeli+brutality+children and start explaining why those kids keep hitting themselves
 
2014-07-25 09:20:47 PM  

J Noble Daggett: Eshkar: Let me spell this out for you Marine... you don't understand the situation on the ground. What you experienced in Afghanistan is different from what is occurring in Israel. In Iraq and Afghanistan the US bombed the crap out of both theaters before boots touched the ground... how many innocent civilians died? Israel did the same, we weren't sending soldiers in to conduct a proper counter insurgency until Hamas was drove to ground... well for them underground. Israeli Pilots have standing orders that they can call off attacks if they see or suspect civilians are present... and they have many many times. The problem is a lot of the time a rocket is fired the jet goes in and the pilot sees heat signature in the building.. .but since they just launched a terrorist rocket at his house or neighbors house he is going to fire unless he sees proof something that makes him believe there are civilians in that house. If Hamas is making civilians stay in that house it isn't the pilots or Israel's fault... it is Hamas' fault. Sadly bad shiat happens in war, but hopefully these poor people will soon be freed from Hamas and allowed to live a full life free of oppression.

BS BS BS.
Israel is in complete denial of the fact that it is illegally occupying the territories and subjugating the Palestinian people. Yes, there exists an element of self-defense in their actions but that does not matter one wit to most of the individuals who now live in the occupied territories. The individuals who were born in the occupied territories deserve better than they get under the Israeli occupation.

Israel is under threat from multiple powers in the region. That does not change anything for a person living in the occupied territories. They are under threat from Israel. The situation requires transcendence. Tit for tat, eye or an eye 'justice' resolves nothing.


Really... Jordan gave Israel the West Bank as part of their treaty after we kicked their asses.  Egypt lost Gaza as a result of taking part in that same ass kicking.  The people living there were Jordanian Citizens in the West Bank and Egyptian Citizens in Gaza... both countries then stripped them of their respective citizenship's... There has never been a Palestine as a country... just territories named such because that is what Rome named Israel after the Great Rebellion ending in the year 70 CE.  All of the sudden you want Israel to take responsibility for a hostile people that wish for it's demise in lands where the actual correct action would have been for Jordan and Egypt to evacuate their citizens the second they handed those lands over to Israel after the war.  The land is not illegally occupied.  Unfortunately what Jordan and Egypt wanted to occur has occurred,  Israel is stuck with their citizens... who hate us.  So I really think we should just do what the US did with the Dominican Republic, make it a demilitarized territory, give it a non-voting representative in the Knesset and allow it some symbalence of self governance, while controlling border security and helping to setup economic systems and a police force made up of Palestinians.  After a decade of non-violence take down the walls and allow more free flow between it and Israel.

But none of that can occur until Hamas is destroyed and the people are freed from their oppression.
 
2014-07-25 09:21:25 PM  

MadeInDetroit: Born_Again_Bavarian: MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.

Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?
Or Hamas can stop firing missiles into Isreal and using the poor people of gaza as human shields. Why would we give one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations a missile system? Because the arming of Isis is working out so well in Syria. Maybe a better solution would be Arabs turning on Hamas and saying hell no you are not putting your missiles in our homes, schools, or hospitals.


The Palestinians that choose to join Hamas do it not out of religious fervor, but out of a thirst for revenge, out of desperation, out of starvation.  They merely use religion as a moral shield.

Their behaviour is abhorrent, but it is to be expected.  Israel is the only one with the power to end this cycle, by giving the Palestinians the power to sustain themselves, to feed themselves, to give them the freedom to come and go as they please, to eliminate curfews and border checkpoints and walls and roaming gangs of bloodthirsty Israeli police .
 
2014-07-25 09:23:15 PM  
Eshkar: But none of that can occur until Hamas is destroyed and the people are freed from their oppression.

I hope you understand that the oppressors, in this case, are the Israelis, and not Hamas...
 
2014-07-25 09:28:30 PM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: Eshkar: Born_Again_Bavarian: MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.

Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?

Actually the US didn't buy Israel shiat.  Israel perfected the US anti-ballistic missile tech the US has never been able to get to work... Israel made it work so well it can take small rockets out (compared to a nuke).  The US paid for it... but what they paid for was Israeli tech know how.

Israel can't make anything on their own.

The IAF's air defense layout was initially equipped with two batteries funded by Israel, and was later upgraded to an additional two batteries that were funded by the US (so far, the US has funded construction for four Iron Dome batteries). The US Congress recently began the process to approve an additional grant of $600 million to fund four supplementary batteries and a substantial quantity of interception missiles.

Under the assumption that the special budget will be approved, the IDF is preparing to operate a total of ten Iron Dome batteries.

http://www.israeldefense.com/?CategoryID=411&ArticleID=1351

It should bother me that we are so blatantly taking sides in this conflict, but I can't help but chuckle at the idea that the IDF is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars ever time someone fires a $500 rocket out of Gaza (Even if it is US taxpayer money).  Someone in the US is getting really rich off of this.


Because the hamas terrorist cannot afford anything more then a $500 unguided missile; imagine if the snackbar's could buy improved weapons? Pretty sure they would nuke Israel if they could; just like the rest of Israel's neighbors. Either way I support Israel, the hamas will continue to fight; and continue to lob unguided rockets into israel even after this conflict is over. I'm sorry so many Palestine's are getting killed; but your own neighbors are assholes by shooting rockets at civilians themselves.

Only way I can see the Hama's are getting weapons; is from the Iranians through Egypt.
 
2014-07-25 09:28:43 PM  

nubzers: Eshkar: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local lead ...


Well... we do have boots on the ground now.  We are currently running an anti-insurgency operation... As I said the bombing were used to drive them to the ground.  Israeli soldiers have been in Gaza for the past week performing anti-insurgency efforts and tracking mile and miles of terror tunnels.
 
2014-07-25 09:29:29 PM  

Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595]
I understand that Israel is ...


In case you are wondering where I got the number of rockets casualties and ask for a citation:
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/rocket-deaths-israel.html

theredphoenix.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-25 09:32:56 PM  

moeburn: Eshkar: But none of that can occur until Hamas is destroyed and the people are freed from their oppression.

I hope you understand that the oppressors, in this case, are the Israelis, and not Hamas...


No they are oppressed by Hamas... every dime of Foreign aid that has entered Gaza has either gone to Hamas Leaders Swiss bank accounts or to their war machine.  Israel is dealing with a bad situation as well as any country could.  I know Palestinian Israeli citizens within Israel that asked if they would go live under the PA and they quickly tell me that they would never give up their Israeli citizenship... because they have freedoms... compared to the rest of the Middle East.
 
2014-07-25 09:33:48 PM  
 
2014-07-25 09:34:28 PM  

Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595]
I understand that Israel is ...


So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.  How about Israel arms and then trains Hamas so they can put up more of a fight? if the casualty rate was 1 to 1 then there would be nothing wrong going on for either side right?

Taking another armed conflict, the First Gulf war,  the Iraqi's suffered 25,000 to 30,000 combat casualties while coalition forces suffered under 500 combat casualties.  Does that make the war somehow unjustified because one side took a disproportionate number of casualties?  Just because one side inflicts more death and destruction on another has little to do with the underlying causes or legality of the given action.  War is very Darwinian, if one side is suffering too much, get or don't take action that prompts a conflict with a superior armed and equipped opponent.
 
2014-07-25 09:38:28 PM  

Eshkar: nubzers: Eshkar: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work with the local lead ...

Well... we do have boots on the ground now.  We are currently running an anti-insurgency operation... As I said the bombing were used to drive them to the ground.  Israeli soldiers have been in Gaza for the past week performing anti-insurgency efforts and tracking mile and miles of terror tunnels.


It's counter insurgency, not anti. Mostly semantics, but I get the feeling English isn't your primary language. Not trying to criticize, just trying to understand if that's the reason we are having a breakdown in communication. Also, who the hell called them terror tunnels? Is that like freedom fries? Anyway, you tell me when Israel sends more than a token force starts providing humanitarian aid, stops restricting freedom of movement, and starts demonstrating with actions that they are morally superior and can provide a better life. Then I'll start believing that Israel isn't just a country with a grudge.
 
2014-07-25 09:38:50 PM  

moeburn: MadeInDetroit: Born_Again_Bavarian: MadeInDetroit: Israel uses missiles to shield its people. Hamas uses people to shield its missiles.

Maybe we can buy Hamas an iron dome like we did the Israelis?  You know, to even things out?
Or Hamas can stop firing missiles into Isreal and using the poor people of gaza as human shields. Why would we give one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations a missile system? Because the arming of Isis is working out so well in Syria. Maybe a better solution would be Arabs turning on Hamas and saying hell no you are not putting your missiles in our homes, schools, or hospitals.

The Palestinians that choose to join Hamas do it not out of religious fervor, but out of a thirst for revenge, out of desperation, out of starvation.  They merely use religion as a moral shield.

Their behaviour is abhorrent, but it is to be expected.  Israel is the only one with the power to end this cycle, by giving the Palestinians the power to sustain themselves, to feed themselves, to give them the freedom to come and go as they please, to eliminate curfews and border checkpoints and walls and roaming gangs of bloodthirsty Israeli police .


"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated it before" that is an exact quote from Hamas charter. Funded by Iran and Muslim Brotherhood also listing as the complete genocide of Israel as their goals. If Hamas would stop launching missiles into Israel and making tunnels into Israel we wouldn't be at this point. The iron dome is only a defensive weapon system. Just another reason to not negotiate with Hamas but recognize they are one of the most dangerous terrorist groups. I am all for Arabs of Gaza getting better treatment. But they should distance themselves from a group that has genocide as one of its core beliefs.
 
2014-07-25 09:38:58 PM  

Resident Muslim: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595]
I understa ...


That is because Israel spent her money building protection for her citizens... while Hamas spend every dime preparing for war to antagonize Israel into bombing them... used cement supplied to them by Israel to build infrastructure to build terror tunnels instead.  When Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians they tried to supply them with economic structure, were going to let Saudi Arabia build them a port (which would have been an extremely profitable port), Israel was ready to help the Palestinians turn Gaza into an amazing home for the Palestinians... instead Hamas turned away the help, burned thousands of green houses the Israelis turned over to them.  It's time for the world to realize the problem isn't the Victims, Israel and the Palestinians are the victims, Hamas and groups like them are the problem.
 
2014-07-25 09:39:15 PM  

spacelord321: J Noble Daggett: spacelord321: J Noble Daggett: spacelord321:
You don't seem able to actually address his logic, and that is presumably the essence of your response.

I saw no logic. I saw someone performing mental gymnastics to convince him/herself that they were right.

Consult your medical insurance proctologist and see if it covers optometry butt-hurt.

FTFY


Your demonstrated skills with logic are a testament to your mental acuity. Surely, your skills in logical repartee speak loudly of both your wit and your morality.
 
2014-07-25 09:46:08 PM  

Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.


Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.
 
2014-07-25 09:49:28 PM  

nubzers: Eshkar: nubzers: Eshkar: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: nubzers: Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Hamas wants Israel for its "holy" areas.
2. Hamas lobs unguided rockets into Israel blowing up random buildings and injuring and killing civilians.
3. Hamas uses civilian buildings for cover to fire their derp rockets.
4. Israel gets tired of being bombed, so they fire back at the area the rockets are coming from, or, when they get pissed enough, invade Gaza and do a house to house trying to root out the religious nut jobs who are trying to kill them.
5. Everyone gets pissed at Israel for killing civilians, even though they use guided munitions, where Hamas uses unguided "hope this kills someone" rockets."
6. Hamas posts vids of dead kids, wailing mothers, and distraught fathers gnashing their teeth over a shredded body, and tout how the Israel government are all monsters who murder children.
7. Everyone flames Israel.

(feel free to add more if i missed anything, I'm sure i have.)

8. Israel flames schools with white phosphorus.

9. Israel kills mostly children and "woops we thought it was empty since no one answered at 3 am"

Israel has committed war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And you pea brained idiots think since they are terrorists it means no holds barred. You are the same retards who think it's ok to torture people or flatten civilian towns because "they hate us for our freedoms." Get out. No seriously, get out. I didn't fight for five years to protect people like you. People who literally made everything far more difficult then it should have been over there in Iraq and Afghanistan with the bullshiat you spew. Israel has completely and utterly shiat the bed when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. You know how you show them your not monsters? By not behaving like monsters and hiding behind legal technicalities for the law of ground warfare. You want to stop the rockets? Get in there on the ground, you stay there, you maintain peace, improve their lives, work wi ...


Actually American transplant.  Israeli media and government call them Terror Tunnels.  It fits... they were built by terrorist to commit acts of terror.
 
2014-07-25 09:52:05 PM  

J Noble Daggett: spacelord321: J Noble Daggett: spacelord321: J Noble Daggett: spacelord321:
You don't seem able to actually address his logic, and that is presumably the essence of your response.

I saw no logic. I saw someone performing mental gymnastics to convince him/herself that they were right.

Consult your medical insurance proctologist and see if it covers optometry butt-hurt.

FTFY

Your demonstrated skills with logic are a testament to your mental acuity. Surely, your skills in logical repartee speak loudly of both your wit and your morality.


I have not even attempted to demonstrate logic or morality. This is mud slinging, pure and simple. Flashy words and insults regarding my intelligence do not place you on any higher ground, morally or intellectually.
 
2014-07-25 09:55:08 PM  

Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595]
I understand that Israel is ...

So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.  How about Israel arms and then trains Hamas so they can put up more of a fight? if the casualty rate was 1 to 1 then there would be nothing wrong going on for either side right?

Taking another armed conflict, the First Gulf war,  the Iraqi's suffered 25,000 to 30,000 combat casualties while coalition forces suffered under 500 combat casualties.  Does that make the war somehow unjustified because one side took a disproportionate number of casualties?  Just because one side inflicts more death and destruction on another has little to do with the underlying causes or legality of the given action.  War is very Darwinian, if one side is suffering too much, get or don't take action that prompts a conflict with a superior armed and equipped opponent.


The coalition never portrayed themselves as victims.


/that's the joke
//waiting for a new clip of israeli nursery children hustled to the shelter under sirens while a tv camera just happens to be there
 
2014-07-25 09:55:46 PM  

J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.


Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.
 
2014-07-25 09:56:24 PM  

Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595 ...


I think the Kuwaiti's would beg to differ....
 
2014-07-25 10:09:29 PM  

Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595 ...

I think the Kuwaiti's would beg to differ....


You lost me.


Are you comparing the occupied Kuwaitis to Palestinians or Israelis?
 
2014-07-25 10:29:50 PM  

Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[new ...


You said the coalition, in reference to my example of the Gulf War 1, didn't portray themselves as victims. My comment was referencing that the coalition was formed on behalf of Kuwait due to the fact that Iraq had invaded Kuwait and the ground campaign was launched to evict Iraq from Kuwait who certainly were victims of aggression.  So there was victimization even in the disparate casualty figures.  Sorry I could have been clearer.

So the really isn't an analogy directly to either Palestinian or Israel in the present conflict except with the fact that even the overwhelming superior forces can be victims based upon the conduct of the inferior forces.
 
2014-07-25 10:57:20 PM  

Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.


Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.
 
2014-07-25 11:06:06 PM  

J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.


What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.
 
2014-07-25 11:23:43 PM  

Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.

What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.


Police win a lot more gun fights than crooks. That doesn't mean crime is good.

Hamas' inability to fight back effectively does not legitimize their struggle, it just proves they're stupid as well as evil.

Protip: If you're ever stuck in a conquered nation, don't resort to lob rockets, suicide bomb, or other coward's moves. Play the game like a player.
 
2014-07-25 11:55:33 PM  
Dear Israel & Hamas:  Please keep fighting.  Fight until every last one of you is dead.
 
2014-07-26 02:12:49 AM  

Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.

What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.


First you explain how pointing out that there are more than 10X more dead Palestinians than Israelis in any way shape or form suggests that more dead of any kind would be desirable? How do you possibly invent that as an interpretation?
It means one side is paying a higher price. It does not make that side right or wrong. It may suggest that the responses of one side, the more powerful side, are disproportionate. That means that less deaths would be better, not more. But less deaths on both sides would be better regardless. What sort of sick mind would suggest more deaths being better? How?
 
2014-07-26 02:24:52 AM  

Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[new ...

You said the coalition, in reference to my example of the Gulf War 1, didn't portray themselves as victims. My comment was referencing that the coalition was formed on behalf of Kuwait due to the fact that Iraq had invaded Kuwait and the ground campaign was launched to evict Iraq from Kuwait who certainly were victims of aggression.  So there was victimization even in the disparate casualty figures.  Sorry I could have been clearer.

So the really isn't an analogy directly to either Palestinian or Israel in the present conflict except with the fact that even the overwhelming superior forces can be victims based upon the conduct of the inferior forces.


So...you gave me an analogy that doesn't really fit the situation?
Kuwait didn't have the "overwhelming superior forces" when it was attacked.

If you don't mind my tweaking the analogy; a better way to look at this is if the occupied Palestinians suddenly got the support of the UN (or the National Security Council), and defended themselves against the Israelis, then that would be a better comparison.
Where an overwhelmingly inferior country was invaded by a superior force, but was then aided by a larger coalition.

That would be a better comparison to the Kuwait invasion, if I may say so.
 
2014-07-26 02:46:45 AM  
Give the Palestines Gaza and West Bank, build U.N. patrolled highways between the two and Jerusalem, and another highway to cross between northern and southern Israel, bring in U.N. money to build whatever needs built AND taught to both sides to ensure autonomy. Explosives/radiological materials checks every 10 miles across both sets of highways. Required GPS tracking of any vehicle entering the checkpoints of the other country monitored by a security force that excludes the US, Russia, involved middle-eastern countries, and pretty much anyone with an axe to grind.

Then, pass a three-strikes Resolution. Three attacks that result in more than 5 deaths/occurrence (you have to weed out the psychos from the state-sponsored militants) in either state, and the U.N. authorizes world-wide backed, border-to-border carpet bombing from Lebanon to Egypt, Jordan to Syria. And the first time either side says "Bullshiat!", the U.N. picks out an uninhabited area just outside of a large metropolitan area and puts on one hell of a fireworks show. No casualties except maybe a few goats, but it would show them that the rest of the planet is farking tired of this shiat.

Set up a 1mi wide DMZ around each area and each highway, and monitor those areas with sonar. Any changes? U.N. peacekeepers bring in a couple of drills and drop a couple dozen pounds of TNT down the holes, followed by thermite charges laced with a couple grams of Chromium-51 (a half-life of 27 days) so if whoever digs the tunnel goes back and checks it out with a Geiger counter, it'll be a genuine warning to knock it the fark off.

Then, we cut off all funding. Every ship container, every truck, every vehicle going in and out gets x-rayed. Every packet of internet and telephony traffic gets monitored to ensure that funds aren't being transferred in and out.

20 years of forced peace at the cost of 5 years of average expenditures that we send to Israel, split up between both sides, is a nice trade-off. The US sends Israel ~$3bn/yr. Split that in half, and GIVE Palestine and Israel desalination plants and $5m in mining equipment to sell "Dead Sea Salts" to farking hipsters and religious nuts in the US and Japan at grossly inflated prices. The equipment would pay for itself in 6 months. Give Gaza exclusive rights to Southeastern Mediterranean tourist ports, and Israel Northeastern ports, tourism would increase in both.

If we backed, both economically and militaristically, a worldwide solution, it would only cost a fraction in the long run of what JUST the US is sending. And has been plainly evinced by both the Jews and Islamic Sheikhs, money talks a universal language.
 
2014-07-26 03:04:24 AM  
Everyone is so caught up in the past, and no one is looking far enough ahead to even begin to try to figure out a way to genuinely reconcile both sides equally, based on the loss each side sustained when Israel was declared a State. Each side lost something fundamentally important to them. The Nazi's poisoned the Muslims of the area by backing them against the Jews. The Jews then were attacked because of their beliefs. The Muslims were then retaliated against (and had their beliefs vindicated) by Christians and Jews.

Jerusalem is important to Jews, Muslims, and Christians. As is that whole area. But the animosity engendered by each group having historically been pitted against each other by religious leaders has poisoned the area, more as a reminder of hatred than as a center of unity.

If there's to be any hope of lasting peace in the area, let alone between the three largest religions in the world, the rest of the world has to put them in a room and tell them to get along or they're all going to get whipped equally until they can't even sit down. And if one of them becomes defiant, we'll make them watch as we take a hammer to their favorite toy.
 
2014-07-26 03:09:01 AM  

J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.

What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.

First you explain how pointing out that there are more than 10X more dead Palestinians than Israelis in any way shape or form suggests that more dead of any kind would be desirable? How do you possibly invent that as an interpretation?
It means one side is paying a higher price. It does not make that side right or wrong. It may suggest that the responses of one side, the more powerful side, are disproportionate. That means that less deaths would be better, not more. But less deaths on b ...


The death toll is irrelevant if you are making the point that casualties are awful.  By juxpositioning the two, you are inferring

J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.

What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.

First you explain how pointing out that there are more than 10X more dead Palestinians than Israelis in any way shape or form suggests that more dead of any kind would be desirable? How do you possibly invent that as an interpretation?
It means one side is paying a higher price. It does not make that side right or wrong. It may suggest that the responses of one side, the more powerful side, are disproportionate. That means that less deaths would be better, not more. But less deaths on b ...


Not at all, the casualty rate has nothing to do with the nature of the response or the justification of the war. You seem to be implying that because one side suffers greatly that means that the conflict was unjustified. Therefore in order to have a just or fair war, both sides must suffer in the same manner which would mean Israel would need more casualties.

When hostilities are initiated, the conflict continues until there is a mutually agreed upon resolution. The fact that the Israeli's have the means and methods to reduce harm while the Hamas and other fighting parties tend to seek out casualties both on the Israeli side and their own has a lot to do with the bloated figures that say nothing about the conflict at all.  Your use of those figures is agenda driven to feed into the victimization model that the Palestinian leadership thrives on in order to achieve international donations to fund their government as well as fund the more lavish lifestyles of their leadership. If you didn't intend that, then why bring up the Israeli casualties at all since they are suffering fewer and therefore are doing their part at limiting the damage like you are advocating.

Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a cita ...


I wasn't giving a straight example, it was more a concept although looking at it, it actually does match up.  The fact that one side or another suffers a larger number or smaller number of casualties is irrelevant to merits of a given conflict or the conduct of the forces involved.  Iraq suffered hugely being the aggressor with an ineffective attack whereas the coalition forces using technology, better equipment, and advanced training suffered little.  Iraq was more comparable to the present Hamas forces whereas Israel would be in the shoes of the coalition. Hamas provoked the attack by kidnapping youths in a campaign to release more prisoners that they botched when one of the kids called the police too quickly causing a crisis that escalated into the war.  The fact that the  Coalition side suffering the fewer casualties is the victim and perfectly justified in their killing a large number of Iraqis does not mean that the resulting action was unjustified or somehow wrong.  Of course there was the advantage of a mutually agreed upon fight between armed forces reducing civilian casualties which isn't the case In the present environment where Hamas is mixing in with the civilian population resulting in more non-combatants from suffering.
 
2014-07-26 03:17:26 AM  

Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.

What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.

First you explain how pointing out that there are more than 10X more dead Palestinians than Israelis in any way shape or form suggests that more dead of any kind would be desirable? How do you possibly invent that as an interpretation?
It means one side is paying a higher price. It does not make that side right or wrong. It may suggest that the responses of one side, the more powerful side, are disproportionate. That means that less deaths would be better, not more. But less deaths on b ...

The death toll is irrelevant if you are making the point that casualties are awful.  By juxpositioning the two, you are inferring J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: So your saying that if there were more dead Israeli's then things would be better and more justified.

Except that that was not what was said. But if we completely change everything to conform to your distorted notion of things, then you have a point, in an alternative universe kind of way.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is supposed to do what exactly then? If there have been only 28 dead Israeli's from rocket fire over 13 years compared to the dozens or hundreds of dead Palestinians over the present violence in Gaza, what is the point of that statistic if not to imply something about the present fighting?  if he is trying to make another point he should clarify.  I tried to work with what I was given and thought he was saying but if there is another point to it, I am all ears.

Pointing out the difference in casualties is not suggesting that more casualties on one side would be better.
Until you abandon the logic of false dichotomies there is no solution. Ultimately, absurd false dichotomies are the "logic" pursued by both sides resulting in incorrigible gridlock.

What is it suggesting then?  You throw it out there and then complain when I wrongly extrapolate what was being said by those statistics.  Enlighten me on the contributions intended by pointing out that Israel has suffered an handful of casualties in 13 years compared with hundreds and thousands suffered by those residing in Gaza/West Bank.

First you explain how pointing out that there are more than 10X more dead Palestinians than Israelis in any way shape or form suggests that more dead of any kind would be desirable? How do you possibly invent that as an interpretation?
It means one side is paying a higher price. It does not make that side right or wrong. It may suggest that the responses of one side, the more powerful side, are disproportionate. That means that less deaths would be better, not more. But less deaths on b ...

Not at all, the casualty rate has nothing to do with the nature of the response or the justification of the war. You seem to be implying that because one side suffers greatly that means that the conflict was unjustified. Therefore in order to have a just or fair war, both sides must suffer in the same manner which would mean Israel would need more casualties.

When hostilities are initiated, the conflict continues until there is a mutually agreed upon resolution. The fact that the Israeli's have the means and methods to reduce harm while the Hamas and other fighting parties tend to seek out casualties both on the Israeli side and their own has a lot to do with the bloated figures that say nothing about the conflict at all.  Your use of those figures is agenda driven to feed into the victimization model that the Palestinian leadership thrives on in order to achieve international donations to fund their government as well as fund the more lavish lifestyles of their leadership. If you didn't intend that, then why bring up the Israeli casualties at all since they are suffering fewer and therefore are doing their part at limiting the damage like you are advocating.

Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a cita ...

I wasn't giving a straight example, it was more a concept although looking at it, it actually does match up.  The fact that one side or another suffers a larger number or smaller number of casualties is irrelevant to merits of a given conflict or the conduct of the forces involved.  Iraq suffered hugely being the aggressor with an ineffective attack whereas the coalition forces using technology, better equipment, and advanced training suffered little.  Iraq was more comparable to the present Hamas forces whereas Israel would be in the shoes of the coalition. Hamas provoked the attack by kidnapping youths in a campaign to release more prisoners that they botched when one of the kids called the police too quickly causing a crisis that escalated into the war.  The fact that the  Coalition side suffering the fewer casualties is the victim and perfectly justified in their killing a large number of Iraqis does not mean that the resulting action was unjustified or somehow wrong.  Of course there was the advantage of a mutually agreed upon fight between armed forces reducing civilian casualties which isn't the case In the present environment where Hamas is mixing in with the civilian population resulting in more non-combatants from suffering.


You just changed the example by dropping Kuwait out of it and considered Iraq attacking the coalition. Which wasn't the case.
Iraq attacked and occupied an inferior power (and then was slapped around when the coalition stepped up) much like Israel is attacking the Palestinians and occupying their lands.
 
2014-07-26 03:34:22 AM  
Kuwait was part of the coalition and therefore Iraq attacked the coalition.   The example was serving how the victim of aggression can suffer fewer casualties and inflict far more damage without the conflict being called unjustified, illegal, or disproportionate. Hamas attacked Israel and is now reaping the consequences for their action.  The casualties inflicted on Palestinians is largely irrelevant to determining the justification or appropriateness of the campaign in response.
 
2014-07-26 03:41:08 AM  

iheartscotch: I have a modest proposal. Can't we just let the Israelis have at the Muslims? If we turn and look the other way; we'll never have to worry about peace in the Middle East ever again. It sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the Muslim problem to me...


I do realise that by calling it a "modest proposal" you're clearly being facetious. Still, I've heard genuine suggestions along those lines. And yes, technically you would end a conflict by simply destroying one side or another. But it's a low-level solution. It's monstrous and inhuman. The apparently reasonable sounding alternatives aren't much better. Some want to force one side or another to leave the area and move away en masse.

But that's wrong as well. How can anyone, in good conscience, deny people the right to live in the land where they were born? This applies equally to both sides. Then there's the two state solution which is tempting as it's fair minded, but looking at how that strategy led directly to decades of war in Ireland and in India/Pakistan, that is deeply unlikely to work.

I wish I could suggest something that will but as much as I try I can't unravel it. As long as missiles fly into Israel, the helicopters and rockets will continue. And of course those helicopters and missiles will trigger more missiles. Non-violent resistance has occasionally led to results, but for every Ghandi or Martin Luther King there's been a Nelson Mandela who or Bobby Sands who could only take their peaceful measures met with crushing brutality for so long.

I have no doubt that most people on both sides don't want this. They are, after all, human beings. And even human beings raised from birth to see the other as inhuman monsters want to live their lives in peace and stability. They want to leave a better society for their children. But I can't think of a way to do it, and certainly can't see one when those same children grow up either learning to throw rocks, fire missiles and strap on bomb vests or to serve in an aggressive military and to patrol their settlements night after night with Uzis.

In some small way I can sort of put my mind in. I am Jewish, born and bred. And while I have never been to Israel I know well about having had the idea imprinted upon me that Israel Must Be Supported No Matter What, because it is my people's one and only safe homeland to be secure if some other country where we were welcome as equals for decades suddenly turns murderously hostile, as Germany did. And that the Jews cannot leave, because if we can be forced out of one homeland once established then we set a precedent and can never guarantee any permanency. I've seen this attitude reflected by members of my own family and other Jewish people I know. I know the worry that comes with even the most legitimate criticism of Israeli policy and actions, the fear that it is a sign of barely concealed anti-Semitic bigotry. Even when it isn't, the question still arises. Me, I consciously work to rid myself of it, because I have seen the drift from "we must be secure" to "those filthy Arabs hate us all" and I for utterly refuse to accept that anyone out there is less human than I, or that I owe any allegiance to anyone because of the religion and ethnicity of my birth.

I am a good Socialist and anti-Fascist. I will welcome anyone, anywhere as my equal provided they agree to that same egalitarian and humanistic ideal. I don't care about your race or ethnicity or nationality or religion or gender or age or sexual preference, because none of that tells me a damn thing about a person's choices or values or outlook or anything else that can actually inform me as to that person's character.

And the worst of it is, all that is my distancing myself and trying to approach in this analytical matter what is in truth the misery, pain and death of living, feeling human beings who surely deserve better, and no matter how hard I try I can't do more than wring my hands in despair.

Sorry for the long post but it's obviously been on my mind and I had to get it off my chest.
 
2014-07-26 03:43:49 AM  

Daedalus27: Not at all, the casualty rate has nothing to do with the nature of the response or the justification of the war. You seem to be implying that because one side suffers greatly that means that the conflict was unjustified. Therefore in order to have a just or fair war, both sides must suffer in the same manner which would mean Israel would need more casualties.


You are a font of illogic. There is an implication of disproportionate response, especially given the common rhetoric of retribution from Israel. There is more to it as Hamas seems to encourage the disproportionate casualty total, presumably for propaganda value. Israel is all too willing to accommodate.

As to implying justification, how? Where did you get that from? It just is not there. It's pure invention.

When hostilities are initiated, the conflict continues until there is a mutually agreed upon resolution. The fact that the Israeli's have the means and methods to reduce harm while the Hamas and other fighting parties tend to seek out casualties both on the Israeli side and their own has a lot to do with the bloated figures that say nothing about the conflict at all. Your use of those figures is agenda driven to feed into the victimization model that the Palestinian leadership thrives on in order to achieve international donations to fund their government as well as fund the more lavish lifestyles of their leadership. If you didn't intend that, then why bring up the Israeli casualties at all since they are suffering fewer and therefore are doing their part at limiting the damage like you are advocating.

The casualty figures speak to the number of casualties. That is not "nothing at all". Your twisted notion that they relate to which side is just is perverse and illogical. As for claiming that Israel is trying to limit casualties, I simply cannot agree. There are too many examples of mutual antagonism. Mutual.
 
2014-07-26 03:54:57 AM  

J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: Not at all, the casualty rate has nothing to do with the nature of the response or the justification of the war. You seem to be implying that because one side suffers greatly that means that the conflict was unjustified. Therefore in order to have a just or fair war, both sides must suffer in the same manner which would mean Israel would need more casualties.

You are a font of illogic. There is an implication of disproportionate response, especially given the common rhetoric of retribution from Israel. There is more to it as Hamas seems to encourage the disproportionate casualty total, presumably for propaganda value. Israel is all too willing to accommodate.

As to implying justification, how? Where did you get that from? It just is not there. It's pure invention.

When hostilities are initiated, the conflict continues until there is a mutually agreed upon resolution. The fact that the Israeli's have the means and methods to reduce harm while the Hamas and other fighting parties tend to seek out casualties both on the Israeli side and their own has a lot to do with the bloated figures that say nothing about the conflict at all. Your use of those figures is agenda driven to feed into the victimization model that the Palestinian leadership thrives on in order to achieve international donations to fund their government as well as fund the more lavish lifestyles of their leadership. If you didn't intend that, then why bring up the Israeli casualties at all since they are suffering fewer and therefore are doing their part at limiting the damage like you are advocating.

The casualty figures speak to the number of casualties. That is not "nothing at all". Your twisted notion that they relate to which side is just is perverse and illogical. As for claiming that Israel is trying to limit casualties, I simply cannot agree. There are too many examples of mutual antagonism. Mutual.


By your analysis you are placing blame on Israel for the reason that they are inflicting more casualties the Palestinians because in your mind they are not trying to limit casualties sufficiently How one can limit casualties when the forces being fought are utilizing the population as a shield is a nearly impossible problem.  The only way not to is to allow Hamas to attack without any response and suffer casualties, damage and disruption to society while impotently standing by.  No nation in the world could stand to do that therefore Israel acts to disrupt the attacks which inflicts more casualties than they suffer therefore fueling your ideas that Israel is to blame.
 
2014-07-26 04:19:18 AM  

Daedalus27: By your analysis you are placing blame on Israel for the reason that they are inflicting more casualties the Palestinians because in your mind they are not trying to limit casualties sufficiently How one can limit casualties when the forces being fought are utilizing the population as a shield is a nearly impossible problem. The only way not to is to allow Hamas to attack without any response and suffer casualties, damage and disruption to society while impotently standing by. No nation in the world could stand to do that therefore Israel acts to disrupt the attacks which inflicts more casualties than they suffer therefore fueling your ideas that Israel is to blame.


No. I am not putting the blame on Israel. You appear to be laboring under the false impression that one side must be to blame or one side must be worse. There's no logical reason to adopt that. In point of fact, both sides are to blame and both sides are acting in ways that will, predictably, continue the conflict indefinitely.
 
2014-07-26 04:24:41 AM  

J Noble Daggett: Daedalus27: By your analysis you are placing blame on Israel for the reason that they are inflicting more casualties the Palestinians because in your mind they are not trying to limit casualties sufficiently How one can limit casualties when the forces being fought are utilizing the population as a shield is a nearly impossible problem. The only way not to is to allow Hamas to attack without any response and suffer casualties, damage and disruption to society while impotently standing by. No nation in the world could stand to do that therefore Israel acts to disrupt the attacks which inflicts more casualties than they suffer therefore fueling your ideas that Israel is to blame.

No. I am not putting the blame on Israel. You appear to be laboring under the false impression that one side must be to blame or one side must be worse. There's no logical reason to adopt that. In point of fact, both sides are to blame and both sides are acting in ways that will, predictably, continue the conflict indefinitely.


Of course there is one side that has to accept the blame for the phases of conflict. Just because both sides are wrong doesn't mean you avoid judging how they conduct themselves. Hamas is clearly to blame for the armed portion of the conflict by provoking the attacks and then conducting the conflict in illegal (under international law) manner to guaranteed to create heavy casualties amongst the Palestinians until eventually the conflict to die off and Hamas receives aid they can siphon off to fund the rebuilding and enrich themselves.  Israel is clearly to blame by their conduct in peace through settlement building, economic starvation, and collective punishment on both a small scale and large of creating conditions where Hamas can thrive and gain strength to again provoke an attack.to repeat the cycle.
 
2014-07-26 06:00:52 AM  

Resident Muslim: I understand that Israel is defending against the rockets coming from Gaza.
I just found it interesting when I looked up how many people have died from these rocket attacks, the answer shocked me.
Since 2001: 28.

How many people died in Gaza yesterday?


This retarded logic always amazes me.
Israel has sophisticated alarm systems, bomb shelters almost under every house and israelis are trained to run for cover in seconds when the alarms sound. It's not as if the palestinians are not trying, they try very very hard to murder as many israeli civilians as possible. There should have been zero deaths, if you notice the dead and seriously wounded are usually kids or elderly who didn't run fast enough to the bomb shelter when the alarms started.

Tell me, if I bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.

Resident Muslim: Now do these ones:


Do you compare kids captured for throwing rocks at soldiers to Hamas' use of their own civilians as human shields ?.. hahha...hahahaha!
Go throw a rock at an armed soldier anywhere else, let me know how it worked out.

Resident Muslim: In case you are wondering where I got the number of rockets casualties and ask for a citation:
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/rocket-deaths-israel.html


Ah.. nothing like good old arab propaganda. Why not post what actually happens when a palestinian missile hits a house ?

www.cbn.com

cdn.timesofisrael.com

www.jpost.com

images1.calcalist.co.il

And there were zero deaths! shocking isn't it ? you know why ? because the civilians were in their bomb shelters.
If only Hamas did the same and protected their civilians but they choose to invest their construction expertise in carefully constructed tunnels for the purpose of murdering jews:

images1.ynet.co.il

 interesting set of priorities don't you agree ?
 
2014-07-26 06:41:13 AM  
Saladin: Will you yield the city?

Balian of Ibelin: Before I lose it, I will burn it to the ground. Your holy places - ours. Every last thing in Jerusalem that drives men mad.

Saladin: I wonder if it would not be better if you did.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-26 07:44:51 AM  

TappingTheVein: Resident Muslim: I understand that Israel is defending against the rockets coming from Gaza.
I just found it interesting when I looked up how many people have died from these rocket attacks, the answer shocked me.
Since 2001: 28.

How many people died in Gaza yesterday?

This retarded logic always amazes me.
Israel has sophisticated alarm systems, bomb shelters almost under every house and israelis are trained to run for cover in seconds when the alarms sound. It's not as if the palestinians are not trying, they try very very hard to murder as many israeli civilians as possible. There should have been zero deaths, if you notice the dead and seriously wounded are usually kids or elderly who didn't run fast enough to the bomb shelter when the alarms started.

Tell me, if I bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.

Resident Muslim: Now do these ones:

Do you compare kids captured for throwing rocks at soldiers to Hamas' use of their own civilians as human shields ?.. hahha...hahahaha!
Go throw a rock at an armed soldier anywhere else, let me know how it worked out.

Resident Muslim: In case you are wondering where I got the number of rockets casualties and ask for a citation:
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/rocket-deaths-israel.html

Ah.. nothing like good old arab propaganda. Why not post what actually happens when a palestinian missile hits a house ?









And there were zero deaths! shocking isn't it ? you know why ? because the civilians were in their bomb shelters.
If only Hamas did the same and protected their civilians but they choose to invest their construction expertise in carefully constructed tunnels for the purpose of murdering jews:



 interesting set of priorities don't you agree ?


Re logic:
Since you are honestly curious, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and answer sincerely.
Israel is always trying to portray itself as a victim.
It is constantly sending missiles into Gaza and then crying foul when the Palestinians do the same.
Before you even think I'm supporting lobbing any kind of weapons into civilian populations, I just want to state that I am against "collateral damage"
Hundreds of civilian Palestinians are killed in any operation, and your response is that they should be better protecting themselves?
Explain to me what logic is it when you kill hundreds of civilians and starve and terrorize thousands, yet still claim to be a victim?

Re throwing rocks at soldiers:
You told me to throw rocks at soldiers and see what happens. Agreed. The result would not end pleasantly.
Can you tell me where in THE WORLD do you ever see kids throwing rocks at soldiers?
Where in the world does that even make sense to do such a thing? And by a kid nonetheless?

Re number of Israeli deaths since 2001:
Mondoweiss is Arab propaganda? Or was the author Arab and I didn't notice?

Re destroyed Israeli house:
I honestly hope there were no civilian casualties in that.
Here is a GIS for Gaza timed to the last week. See what it looks like:
https://www.google.ae/search?q=gaza&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&sour c e=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ei=GJDTU76CPK-U0QXI7YAo&ved=0CBMQpwU&dpr=2&biw=10 24&bih=672
(Sorry, doesn't pop)

Re tunnels:
Those tunnels are for murdering Israelis?
How many Israelis were murdered? Where do the lead to-from?
Excuse my ignorance.

Re Israelis:
You think those Israelis are native?

Imagine living in your home. Now someone (depending on which version you take either a) an attacker b) a roommate c) a renter ) takes over your home and forces you and your family into the basement. Then controls when and if you get access to the kitchen and bathroom. How would you feel? Every time you try to resist, you and your family get beaten up.
Now the squatter has taken over your deed, and whenever the cops get involved, they tell you that you should be grateful to have a basement to live in, regardless out what filth, squalor and hunger you and your family end up in. And by the way, stop fighting the (new) homeowner.


/again, I ask you, where in the world do you see kids throwing rocks at soldiers? Not police mind you, soldiers. Knowing full well what happens if they are caught.
//you see logic in that?
 
2014-07-26 09:19:20 AM  
I know there are Sabbath elevators and Sabbath lights, but are there Sabbath alts?
 
2014-07-26 09:43:08 AM  

Resident Muslim: Israel is always trying to portray itself as a victim.
It is constantly sending missiles into Gaza and then crying foul when the Palestinians do the same.


BS. Israel fires on Gaza as a response to palestinians firing on Israel. Why do you ignore this little fact ?

Resident Muslim: Hundreds of civilian Palestinians are killed in any operation, and your response is that they should be better protecting themselves?


No, i'm saying very clearly that Hamas doesn't give a flying fark about their civilians and they focus all their resources on the 'death to the jews' department. If they instead built bomb shelters, and as you can clearly see they have the means to do so, the palestinian civilian death toll would be minimal. But Hamas' goal is to have as many dead palestinian civilians as possible.

Resident Muslim: Explain to me what logic is it when you kill hundreds of civilians and starve and terrorize thousands, yet still claim to be a victim?


I'm sorry, having Israel bombed on an hourly basis in unacceptable. Israel does whatever any other country would do in its position, defend its civilians.  Israel attempts to limit civilian casualties in lengths which are unparalleled in warfare history, Hamas puts every effort to increase palestinians civilian casualties, in fact they are proud of it.

You still haven't addressed your idiotic logic ("look..look.. only so few of them die!"), so I ask again:

This retarded logic always amazes me.
Israel has sophisticated alarm systems, bomb shelters almost under every house and israelis are trained to run for cover in seconds when the alarms sound. It's not as if the palestinians are not trying, they try very very hard to murder as many israeli civilians as possible. There should have been zero deaths, if you notice the dead and seriously wounded are usually kids or elderly who didn't run fast enough to the bomb shelter when the alarms started.

Tell me, if I bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.

Resident Muslim: You told me to throw rocks at soldiers and see what happens. Agreed. The result would not end pleasantly.
Can you tell me where in THE WORLD do you ever see kids throwing rocks at soldiers?


Yes, everywhere insanely stupid mothers send their children to throw rocks at soldiers and are very proud of it.

Resident Muslim: Where in the world does that even make sense to do such a thing? And by a kid nonetheless?


When it creates a great photo-op. Hey, it fooled you didn't it ?

Resident Muslim: Mondoweiss is Arab propaganda? Or was the author Arab and I didn't notice?


The 'look..look.. the rockets and missiles are doing absolutely nothing, why is Israel shooting at us' is classic arab propaganda BS. Realty is actually the polar opposite as i clearly proved.

Resident Muslim: I honestly hope there were no civilian casualties in that.


I was very very clear: there were zero deaths because israelis run to the bomb shelters when the alarm sounds. You were 'shocked' that there are so few israeli casualties from palestinians missiles, now you know why and why your idiotic logic of comparison to the palestinian number of casualties is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

Resident Muslim: Here is a GIS for Gaza timed to the last week. See what it looks like


I know what it looks like, I also know who is to blame for It. If Hamas stopped lobbing rocket at Israel in the next 5min, Israel would stop firing on Gaza in the next 5 min.

Resident Muslim: Those tunnels are for murdering Israelis?


Yes. Tunnels that go from Gaza and exit under Israel. They use it to enter Israel and murder israelis. So far they tried (and failed) about 4 times in the last week or so.
Here's an example of one.

Resident Muslim: How many Israelis were murdered? Where do the lead to-from?


Again with this idiotic logic. They weren't killed because they were stopped by Israel, killed successfully before they could murder or like in this case kidnap israelis.

Resident Muslim: Excuse my ignorance.


Glad I could be of assistance. Feel free to ask any more questions.

Resident Muslim: You think those Israelis are native?

Imagine living in your home. Now someone (depending on which version you take either a) an attacker b) a roommate c) a renter ) takes over your home and forces you and your family into the basement. Then controls when and if you get access to the kitchen and bathroom. How would you feel? Every time you try to resist, you and your family get beaten up.
Now the squatter has taken over your deed, and whenever the cops get involved, they tell you that you should be grateful to have a basement to live in, regardless out what filth, squalor and hunger you and your family end up in. And by the way, stop fighting the (new) homeowner.


You basically ignored every major fact and event related to the region in the last 2 centuries.
Where to begin ? jews always had a presence in Israel, jews bought land to settle in Israel, they accepted the Partition Plan, the arabs rejected it, every major change in Israel territory was a result of arabs attempting to destroy Israel, both PLO and Hamas are committed to the eradication of Israel and so on etc..

Resident Muslim: again, I ask you, where in the world do you see kids throwing rocks at soldiers? Not police mind you, soldiers


Again I answer:  everywhere insanely stupid mothers send their children to throw rocks at armed soldiers.

Resident Muslim: Knowing full well what happens if they are caught


Yes, it makes great photo-op opportunities. Fooled you didn't it ?

Resident Muslim: you see logic in that?


Yes since Hamas explained it quite clearly. Now that is some farked up mentality.

By the way, what do you say about what is happening all over the arab/muslim world today ? muslims slaughtering other muslims of a slightly different sect. What is the death toll in Syria nowdays ? 170,000 ? in Iraq ? Libya ?
 
2014-07-26 09:58:51 AM  

Resident Muslim: TappingTheVein: Resident Muslim: I understand that Israel is defending against the rockets coming from Gaza.
I just found it interesting when I looked up how many people have died from these rocket attacks, the answer shocked me.
Since 2001: 28.

How many people died in Gaza yesterday?

This retarded logic always amazes me.
Israel has sophisticated alarm systems, bomb shelters almost under every house and israelis are trained to run for cover in seconds when the alarms sound. It's not as if the palestinians are not trying, they try very very hard to murder as many israeli civilians as possible. There should have been zero deaths, if you notice the dead and seriously wounded are usually kids or elderly who didn't run fast enough to the bomb shelter when the alarms started.

Tell me, if I bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.

Resident Muslim: Now do these ones:

Do you compare kids captured for throwing rocks at soldiers to Hamas' use of their own civilians as human shields ?.. hahha...hahahaha!
Go throw a rock at an armed soldier anywhere else, let me know how it worked out.

Resident Muslim: In case you are wondering where I got the number of rockets casualties and ask for a citation:
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/rocket-deaths-israel.html

Ah.. nothing like good old arab propaganda. Why not post what actually happens when a palestinian missile hits a house ?


And there were zero deaths! shocking isn't it ? you know why ? because the civilians were in their bomb shelters.
If only Hamas did the same and protected their civilians but they choose to invest their construction expertise in carefully construc ...


Let me repeat... if Hamas wouldn't use Human shields the Civilian causalities in Gaza would be extremely low.  So instead of complaining about Israel why don't you complain to Hamas, Iran, Qatar, and whomever else Hamas will listen to.

The Throwing rocks at soldiers... you ask why these children are driven to do such things... because they are taught to hate Israel and being a Martyr is a good thing.  So once again they can quit teaching their Children to hate; you know love their children more than they hate us.

The Terror Tunnels... There has been Israeli deaths due to the Tunnels, they used them in a surprise attack a few days ago to kill and wound Israeli citizens before they were stopped.  So far 37 Israelis soldiers have lost their lifes.  Oh and lets not forget the children, not Israeli children though, Gazan children.  Hamas used forced child labor to help build those tunnels and a 2012 report by the Institute of Palestinian Studies 160 children were killed constructing the Terror Tunnels. That was in 2012 I wonder how many more died since that was published.

Do I think the Israelis are Native... Yes. A Jewish presence in Israel has been constant since 70 CE, even after the forced exile of the Jewish peoples after the Great Jewish Revolt ending in 70 CE a remnant of the people were allowed to remain.  The constant people of Israel has always been Jews.  The current people that refer to themselves as 'Palestinians" (a name given to Israel by the Romans as a punishment for the revolt) first appeared in Israel during the Ottoman Empire, they were forced to relocate to offset the rising Jewish population. So yes Israelis are the Native peoples of Israel.

Your narrative about being forced to live in your basement is flawed and inaccurate.  Imagine instead you buy land your ancestors originally owned, (which the Jews did pre-WWI) you build a house and settle your family down.  But years later the previous land owners show up and demand you give them back your land.  When you refuse they skip the local authorities and go to the UN... the UN then announces that you are illegally occupying their land.  Sounds crazy right... well that is what occurred. (a rather simplified version, but that is the gist of it).

The current situation in Gaza is of Hamas' own doing; if Israel had not taken the measures it has Israel would face much worse problems.  Essentially Hamas is standing there threatening Israel that it is going to harm itself if Israel doesn't give into its demands... and then when Hamas cuts off its own thumb it turns to the world and crys "see what Israel did to me" and the world gripes at Israel.  I find it weird the world is complaining about Egypt.. you know Gaza's other neighbor; Gaza use to be part of Egypt and the people in Gaza use to be Egyptian citizens... Egypt is also blockading Gaza, Egypt has also sealed its border off with Gaza.  But only Israel is the aggressor according to your flawed narrative.  The problem is Hamas; it harms its own people in pursuit of its hatred and blood lust for the destruction of Israel.  So how about you go complain to them about their actions.
 
2014-07-26 10:15:00 AM  
Eshkar: I find it weird the world isn't complaining about Egypt
 
2014-07-26 10:27:47 AM  

Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595 ...


How about a Hamas militant firing rockets and using kids as a shield instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vHDyuSTneA

How about a group of kids being held by a mortar to prevent a retaliatory strike by Israel instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu54aSM6QOE

How about Hamas militant dragging kids with him to keep the IDF from firing at him instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE


I could be wrong. This could all be indoctrination or militia training for the young ones........maybe you can correct me.
 
2014-07-26 05:53:21 PM  

TappingTheVein: Resident Muslim: Israel is always trying to portray itself as a victim.
It is constantly sending missiles into Gaza and then crying foul when the Palestinians do the same.

BS. Israel fires on Gaza as a response to palestinians firing on Israel. Why do you ignore this little fact ?

Resident Muslim: Hundreds of civilian Palestinians are killed in any operation, and your response is that they should be better protecting themselves?

No, i'm saying very clearly that Hamas doesn't give a flying fark about their civilians and they focus all their resources on the 'death to the jews' department. If they instead built bomb shelters, and as you can clearly see they have the means to do so, the palestinian civilian death toll would be minimal. But Hamas' goal is to have as many dead palestinian civilians as possible.

Resident Muslim: Explain to me what logic is it when you kill hundreds of civilians and starve and terrorize thousands, yet still claim to be a victim?

I'm sorry, having Israel bombed on an hourly basis in unacceptable. Israel does whatever any other country would do in its position, defend its civilians.  Israel attempts to limit civilian casualties in lengths which are unparalleled in warfare history, Hamas puts every effort to increase palestinians civilian casualties, in fact they are proud of it.

You still haven't addressed your idiotic logic ("look..look.. only so few of them die!"), so I ask again:

This retarded logic always amazes me.
Israel has sophisticated alarm systems, bomb shelters almost under every house and israelis are trained to run for cover in seconds when the alarms sound. It's not as if the palestinians are not trying, they try very very hard to murder as many israeli civilians as possible. There should have been zero deaths, if you notice the dead and seriously wounded are usually kids or elderly who didn't run fast enough to the bomb shelter when the alarms started.

Tell me, if I bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.

Resident Muslim: You told me to throw rocks at soldiers and see what happens. Agreed. The result would not end pleasantly.
Can you tell me where in THE WORLD do you ever see kids throwing rocks at soldiers?

Yes, everywhere insanely stupid mothers send their children to throw rocks at soldiers and are very proud of it.

Resident Muslim: Where in the world does that even make sense to do such a thing? And by a kid nonetheless?

When it creates a great photo-op. Hey, it fooled you didn't it ?

Resident Muslim: Mondoweiss is Arab propaganda? Or was the author Arab and I didn't notice?

The 'look..look.. the rockets and missiles are doing absolutely nothing, why is Israel shooting at us' is classic arab propaganda BS. Realty is actually the polar opposite as i clearly proved.

Resident Muslim: I honestly hope there were no civilian casualties in that.

I was very very clear: there were zero deaths because israelis run to the bomb shelters when the alarm sounds. You were 'shocked' that there are so few israeli casualties from palestinians missiles, now you know why and why your idiotic logic of comparison to the palestinian number of casualties is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

Resident Muslim: Here is a GIS for Gaza timed to the last week. See what it looks like

I know what it looks like, I also know who is to blame for It. If Hamas stopped lobbing rocket at Israel in the next 5min, Israel would stop firing on Gaza in the next 5 min.

Resident Muslim: Those tunnels are for murdering Israelis?

Yes. Tunnels that go from Gaza and exit under Israel. They use it to enter Israel and murder israelis. So far they tried (and failed) about 4 times in the last week or so.
Here's an example of one.

Resident Muslim: How many Israelis were murdered? Where do the lead to-from?

Again with this idiotic logic. They weren't killed because they were stopped by Israel, killed successfully before they could murder or like in this case kidnap israelis.

Resident Muslim: Excuse my ignorance.

Glad I could be of assistance. Feel free to ask any more questions.

Resident Muslim: You think those Israelis are native?

Imagine living in your home. Now someone (depending on which version you take either a) an attacker b) a roommate c) a renter ) takes over your home and forces you and your family into the basement. Then controls when and if you get access to the kitchen and bathroom. How would you feel? Every time you try to resist, you and your family get beaten up.
Now the squatter has taken over your deed, and whenever the cops get involved, they tell you that you should be grateful to have a basement to live in, regardless out what filth, squalor and hunger you and your family end up in. And by the way, stop fighting the (new) homeowner.

You basically ignored every major fact and event related to the region in the last 2 centuries.
Where to begin ? jews always had a presence in Israel, jews bought land to settle in Israel, they accepted the Partition Plan, the arabs rejected it, every major change in Israel territory was a result of arabs attempting to destroy Israel, both PLO and Hamas are committed to the eradication of Israel and so on etc..

Resident Muslim: again, I ask you, where in the world do you see kids throwing rocks at soldiers? Not police mind you, soldiers

Again I answer:  everywhere insanely stupid mothers send their children to throw rocks at armed soldiers.

Resident Muslim: Knowing full well what happens if they are caught

Yes, it makes great photo-op opportunities. Fooled you didn't it ?

Resident Muslim: you see logic in that?

Yes since Hamas explained it quite clearly. Now that is some farked up mentality.

By the way, what do you say about what is happening all over the arab/muslim world today ? muslims slaughtering other muslims of a slightly different sect. What is the death toll in Syria nowdays ? 170,000 ? in Iraq ? Libya ?


So the best answer you've got to everything I've mentioned is "NO U!!"
 
2014-07-26 05:54:01 PM  

Giltric: Resident Muslim: Daedalus27: Resident Muslim: Eshkar: Resident Muslim: wademh: Hamas is evil in that they are so very willing to encourage civilian casualties as a side-effect of their belligerent activity against Israel and Israel is evil because they are so very very willing to oblige Hamas in this respect, and even encourage continued mutual belligerence.

I almost wish I could engineer a pox that attacked people who are so full of hate, except I guess that actually wanting to do so would be a bit of a suicide attack.

what Hamas using human shields looks like:
[www.imemc.org image 340x264]

Or how about some hot girls and the IDF:
[algerienetwork.com image 620x349]

/am I doing this wrong?
//look up Breaking the Silence by a group of Israeli Veterans.

Well something you evidently missed... the kid on the hood was arrested during violent 'protest' or in truth riots... as was the kid handcuffed (throwing stones... not rocks and Molotov cocktails at soldiers is frowned upon...).  None of them are being used as shields.  The blonde girl has been detained during several west bank 'protest' (riots).  Her parents take her there and then the girl physically assaults the soldiers while mommy and daddy take pictures... Even here in the US if a girl of 10 attacks a police officer they will be taken into custody.  The girl is trying to run away from the officer she was just attacking.  The girl is released into her parents custody shortly thereafter.

Your attempt at using pictures taken out of context is pathetic.  Israel doesn't hold weapons up to people and force them to stay in a house that is about to be bombed... nope Israel calls ahead and tells the people to get out... Hamas on the other hand wants international support by making their civilians die, while they hide in tunnels that were built using relief aid that was meant for the people... who never saw any of it.


you are so good, I'm not even going to ask you for a citation.
Now do these ones:
[newsjunkiepost.com image 500x595 ...

How about a Hamas militant firing rockets and using kids as a shield instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vHDyuSTneA

How about a group of kids being held by a mortar to prevent a retaliatory strike by Israel instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu54aSM6QOE

How about Hamas militant dragging kids with him to keep the IDF from firing at him instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE


I could be wrong. This could all be indoctrination or militia training for the young ones........maybe you can correct me.


If I'm not mistaken:
1) shows infrared signature of people huddling against attacks. Couldn't see anything more than that
2) agreed. Indoctrination with someone on a loudspeaker with kids gathered to watch the launch. This definitely puts the kids at risk of a retaliation attack
3) you see kids huddling against the wall (I'm guessing to avoid live fire based on how fast the armed guy was running). The lone kid hiding behind a thin column is snatched up and presumably taken to a safe(r) position.

/wag the dog
//there is a reason I have only ventured once into the politics tab in my 5 years here
///bows out
 
2014-07-26 06:20:38 PM  

Resident Muslim: So the best answer you've got to everything I've mentioned is "NO U!!"


I'm not surprised you ignore everything i posted. That was expected when being faced with facts not to your liking.
 
2014-07-26 06:36:15 PM  

Resident Muslim: If I'm not mistaken:
1) shows infrared signature of people huddling against attacks. Couldn't see anything more than that
2) agreed. Indoctrination with someone on a loudspeaker with kids gathered to watch the launch. This definitely puts the kids at risk of a retaliation attack
3) you see kids huddling against the wall (I'm guessing to avoid live fire based on how fast the armed guy was running). The lone kid hiding behind a thin column is snatched up and presumably taken to a safe(r) position.


Bahahaha...ahaha!.. oh man. Thanks, i needed the laugh.
Well, what can you expect ? why accept facts when you can lie to yourself ?

Hamas saying "yes. we use our own civilians as human shields and by Allah we are damn proud of it!" is what exactly ? come on, come up with another lying excuse.
Be creative.
 
2014-07-27 04:00:47 AM  
Resident Muslim: I just found it interesting when I looked up how many people have died from these rocket attacks, the answer shocked me.
Since 2001: 28. ...

How many people died in Gaza yesterday?


Well, that is what happens when you go up against someone with better weapons and better aim.
 
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