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(MSN)   Two men. Both illegally carrying guns. Both shoot another human being. Now what?   (news.msn.com) divider line 286
    More: Interesting, Upper Darby, gunshots  
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10466 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2014 at 9:42 AM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-25 02:09:22 AM
The mental patient lived.  The person he shot died.  The third person involved, the doctor, shot the mental patient, and damned good he did because otherwise wtf would that patient have done?  Put his gun away and said, "Oh, my bad."  No.  He'd have offed everyone he saw after that until his gun ran out of ammo.

Stupid no-carry laws only put the rest of us at risk.
 
2014-07-25 02:15:54 AM

granolasteak: Stupid no-carry laws only put the rest of us at risk


I don't know if I'd go that far, but gun-free zones certainly aren't keeping us any safer. I'm glad the doc saw that.
 
2014-07-25 02:46:51 AM
Now what? Seriously, subby? This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country that nobody wants to address, and it has nothing to do with guns.
 
2014-07-25 02:59:43 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Now what? Seriously, subby? This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country that nobody wants to address, and it has nothing to do with guns.


Very true about mental health. But this story has everything to do with guns, areas designated gun-free, and the right of self defense.

I'm not subby, if anyone wondered. I'd at least get the body count right.
 
2014-07-25 07:30:34 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Now what? Seriously, subby? This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country that nobody wants to address, and it has nothing to do with guns.


Ding!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-07-25 08:43:53 AM

violentsalvation: granolasteak: Stupid no-carry laws only put the rest of us at risk

I don't know if I'd go that far, but gun-free zones certainly aren't keeping us any safer. I'm glad the doc saw that.


Sure they are.  Can you imagine what things would be like if everyone carried heat like in a wild west movie, the way gun nuts want?
 
2014-07-25 08:54:21 AM
Now what? Today's pointless circle jerk of a gun control thread is what.
 
2014-07-25 09:02:54 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: The mental patient is alive, subby.


Not only that, but the doctor wasn't carrying illegally, as far as we know.  He was just in violation of hospital policy, which doesn't have the force of law.
 
2014-07-25 09:17:57 AM
So....the second amendment worked.
 
2014-07-25 09:21:01 AM

Chris Ween: So....the second amendment worked.


Well except for allowing a mental patient access to a firearm.
 
2014-07-25 09:22:44 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Chris Ween: So....the second amendment worked.

Well except for allowing a mental patient access to a firearm.


Which he used to murder someone.  But yeah, FREEDOM!  'Murica!
 
2014-07-25 09:34:12 AM

nekom: cameroncrazy1984: Chris Ween: So....the second amendment worked.

Well except for allowing a mental patient access to a firearm.

Which he used to murder someone.  But yeah, FREEDOM!  'Murica!


Yeah, background checks are for suckers! Let's talk about "gun-free" zones as if that's the real problem!"
 
2014-07-25 09:45:57 AM
Guns. What can't they do?
 
2014-07-25 09:46:03 AM
In hindsight, calling it a wellness center might be a little bit of an overstatement.
 
2014-07-25 09:46:44 AM
What now? Seems pretty simple - one of them gets put on trial for murder, and spends the next 25-50 years in prison or in a mental hospital. The other one gets charged with some minor forearms violation, and spends the next few years on probation

Seems reasonable to me
 
2014-07-25 09:46:53 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: We have a serious mental health problem in this country


Subby, for example.
 
2014-07-25 09:47:35 AM
"We do believe that there were some issues between the doctor and the patient, but whether or not he actually feared him is unclear," Whelan said.

Well... he was packing heat.  Either he has a healthy fear of THIS patient or recognizes that his patients are possibly fatally dangerous in general.

Sometimes a gun IS a practical precaution.
 
2014-07-25 09:48:27 AM
I thought gun free zones were just meant to absolve the property of liability and are not meant to have anything to do with safety.
 
2014-07-25 09:48:34 AM
Fark headline:


Both illegally carrying guns


From TFA:


The motive for the shooting remained unclear. Whelan said Plotts, of Upper Darby, might have had issues with the doctor over his treatment plan. It is not known, however, if that is why Silverman was armed, apparently against hospital policy.
...
A spokeswoman for the Mercy Health System said the hospital has a policy barring anyone except on-duty law enforcement officers from carrying weapons on its campus.


"Against hospital policy" is not the same as "illegal", tardmitter.
 
2014-07-25 09:49:22 AM

rzrwiresunrise: Guns. What can't they do?


My taxes. Seriously, I pistol whipped my CPA to get my tax bill down, next thing I know I'm getting audited. And apparently my old CPA had some questionable clients because all of a sudden I'm hearing about how he and his family got relocated by US Marshals in the middle of the night.
 
2014-07-25 09:49:33 AM
"Two men. Both illegally carrying guns."

Except that only one was illegally carrying a gun, from the story - the career criminal with mental issues.

The psychiatrist only violated hospital policy. It's not illegal to own a handgun in Pennsylvania, and he wasn't carrying it concealed on his person, so he didn't even need a carry permit (which he might have had).
 
2014-07-25 09:49:57 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Now what? Seriously, subby? This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country that nobody wants to address, and it has nothing to do with guns.


Shut up retard, and pass me ma beer
 
2014-07-25 09:50:14 AM
You know when people who have never seriously looked into the issue ask when has an armed citizen ever stopped a mass shooting?  Well...
 
2014-07-25 09:51:03 AM
So a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun.

Too bad the doctor is a criminal now for carrying in a gun free zone.
 
2014-07-25 09:51:09 AM
Love how the dead person, Theresa Hunt, get mentioned as an aside. But, hey...guns.
 
2014-07-25 09:51:46 AM

rzrwiresunrise: Guns. What can't they do?


The twist, the mashed potato or the hokey pokey.
 
2014-07-25 09:53:36 AM
Let's do this!

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com
 
2014-07-25 09:54:30 AM
Quick! Let's formulate social policy and law in response to an extremely rare and atypical event!
 
2014-07-25 09:54:41 AM
LEAVE GUNS ALONE!
 
2014-07-25 09:54:41 AM

Click Click D'oh: You know when people who have never seriously looked into the issue ask when has an armed citizen ever stopped a mass shooting?  Well...


"But Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux said that "without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives."
 
2014-07-25 09:55:36 AM

AngryDragon: So a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun.

Too bad the doctor is a criminal now for carrying in a gun free zone.


No he's not.
 
2014-07-25 09:56:13 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Now what? Seriously, subby? This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country that nobody wants to address, and it has nothing to do with guns.


It has everything to do with iPhones.
 
2014-07-25 09:57:17 AM

jso2897: Quick! Let's formulate social policy and law in response to an extremely rare and atypical event!


Yeah something that happens on nearly a weekly basis is extremely rare and atypical.
 
2014-07-25 09:58:06 AM
I put it to you that the psychiatrist ONLY carried his gun because of the ability of mentally ill people to get guns and use them on innocent people.

We should congratulate, honor and console the psychiatrist for using his gun but we should also spend money on helping the mentally ill and making sure they can't get guns.

I don't think the ideal situation for people who make it their profession to help the mentally ill is to expect them to take out those patients that can't get the help they need. That's why we have cops.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:15 AM
Now what? Run against each other in a Republican primary, that's what.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:19 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: Fark headline:


Both illegally carrying guns


From TFA:


The motive for the shooting remained unclear. Whelan said Plotts, of Upper Darby, might have had issues with the doctor over his treatment plan. It is not known, however, if that is why Silverman was armed, apparently against hospital policy.
...
A spokeswoman for the Mercy Health System said the hospital has a policy barring anyone except on-duty law enforcement officers from carrying weapons on its campus.


"Against hospital policy" is not the same as "illegal", tardmitter.


If its against policy its against the law in relation to carrying concealed in wi. If you get caught its a misdemeanor
 
2014-07-25 09:59:29 AM
Guns kill people.

Idiots with guns argue that we should have more guns.

Guns.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:30 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Now what? Seriously, subby? This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country that nobody wants to address, and it has nothing to do with guns.


The single best thing we could do in regards to this issue would be to pass legislation giving a mechanism for the state to FORCE patients to take their meds. Despite what everyone whines about there not being enough psychiatrists and therapists, the vast majority of these people have been in the system, have been prescribed meds, and just choose not to take them. Until they are acutely psychotic there is absolutely no way as it stands now to force someone to take their medication.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:37 AM

cameroncrazy1984: jso2897: Quick! Let's formulate social policy and law in response to an extremely rare and atypical event!

Yeah something that happens on nearly a weekly basis is extremely rare and atypical.


I know.  And imagine if we based it on defensive gun use...which happens daily...even at the most modest numbers.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:38 AM
Doctor/Patient confidentiality is gonna be a biatch in this case :-)
 
2014-07-25 10:00:02 AM
Violating your employers policies isn't illegal yet subby, though that grim day may soon be upon us.
 
2014-07-25 10:00:06 AM
That's an easy question, subby. The black one goes to jail. Duh.
 
2014-07-25 10:00:15 AM
Public safety requires more guns? Heh. More like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
2014-07-25 10:01:23 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: and it has nothing to do with guns.


Oh look, another person using their own ignorance of data as being synonymous with there not being data.  If you had just left off this outright fabrication, you'd have had a good post.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w7967
Important quote:
"The statistically significant estimate of 0.142 in the first column implies that a 10% increase in firearm ownership is associated with a 1.42% increase in homocide rates."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047272705000411
From the abstract:
"Using county- and state-level panels for 20 years, we estimate the elasticity of homicide with respect to gun prevalence as between + 0.1 and + 0.3. All of the effect of gun prevalence is on gun homicide rates."

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2014/04/16/injuryprev- 20 14-041187.short
From the abstract
"We used a negative binomial regression model and accounted for clustering of observations among states. We found that state-level gun ownership as measured by the new proxy, is significantly associated with firearm and total homicides but not with non-firearm homicides."

More guns: more homocide.  We also have a gun problem.
 
2014-07-25 10:02:05 AM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: What now? Seems pretty simple - one of them gets put on trial for murder, and spends the next 25-50 years in prison or in a mental hospital. The other one gets charged with some minor forearms violation, and spends the next few years on probation

Seems reasonable to me


If the doc gets charged with a felony (and possibly a high grade misdemeanor depending on the state), he can kiss his license goodbye. And the hospital will probably fire him regardless.
 
2014-07-25 10:03:35 AM

Fista-Phobia: Public safety requires more guns? Heh. More like a self-fulfilling prophecy.


I don't think they mean to just pile them up in a corner or anything.  A gun corner.  The corner where all the guns are piled.
 
2014-07-25 10:04:10 AM

TheNewJesus: Guns kill people.


People kill people.  Guns just make it ridiculously easy.  Point and click interface and all that.
 
2014-07-25 10:05:17 AM
I like how every article or blurb about this incident glosses over the fact that the doctor (a good guy) stopped the mental patient (a murdering bad guy)  and focuses more on tangents of the case (the police response/guns being illegal/etc)

Fact is, had the doctor not been carrying, he'd probably be dead, along with loads more people because the shooter was a nutjob murderer.

The two sad parts of the case: the innocent woman who died just trying to do her job, and the fact the mental patient is still alive. After causing death and pain, the tax payers now get to dole out millions of dollars to keep him alive, fed, and taken care of.
 
2014-07-25 10:05:26 AM

Pull the Plug on Grannie: Ctrl-Alt-Del: What now? Seems pretty simple - one of them gets put on trial for murder, and spends the next 25-50 years in prison or in a mental hospital. The other one gets charged with some minor forearms violation, and spends the next few years on probation

Seems reasonable to me

If the doc gets charged with a felony (and possibly a high grade misdemeanor depending on the state), he can kiss his license goodbye. And the hospital will probably fire him regardless.


But he and probably several other people are still alive. I'm going with this is a good trade off.
 
2014-07-25 10:05:55 AM

nekom: TheNewJesus: Guns kill people.

People kill people.  Guns just make it ridiculously easy.  Point and click interface and all that.


i.imgur.com
 
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