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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Obama just called every business in the Fortune 500 "corporate deserters." And he's right   (suntimes.com) divider line 158
    More: Hero, tax avoidances, Obama, u.s. taxes, economic patriotism  
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3131 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jul 2014 at 9:28 AM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-25 01:29:30 AM  
high U.S. corporate tax rates


Doesn't count for shiat when even the firms that are paying taxes at all are paying a fraction of what they owe.

arkinvestments.org
 
2014-07-25 01:47:24 AM  
Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.
 
2014-07-25 01:59:10 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


Considering the fact that the majority of the world operates on a progressive tax system whereby the companies that are "doing well" are taxed more, that's not going to happen any time soon.
 
2014-07-25 02:18:46 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


Because having infrastructure, a safe haven courtesy of the largest military in the world, an educated workforce, etc... costs money and that stuff doesn't pay for itself. As a matter of fact, I hear there is something of a debt crisis to pay for this same stuff.

If you are saying it is perfectly fine to have your entire company on US soil and a P.O. box in the Caymans just to avoid taxes and maximize profits, I wouldn't be calling anyone an asshole.
 
2014-07-25 02:23:15 AM  
I think it would be fantastic if he stayed on this for the next two years to pass the mantle or somehow, miraculously, force some change for once. I think this admin as been too scatter brained despite the immediate threats. They could hammer on this cause and force the debate, but I fear that this is just a pledge drive for the moment.
 
2014-07-25 02:25:48 AM  
True Patriots™ don't pay retail for the benefits their country provides

/they just reap the profits
 
2014-07-25 02:32:44 AM  

PreMortem: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

Because having infrastructure, a safe haven courtesy of the largest military in the world, an educated workforce, etc... costs money and that stuff doesn't pay for itself. As a matter of fact, I hear there is something of a debt crisis to pay for this same stuff.

If you are saying it is perfectly fine to have your entire company on US soil and a P.O. box in the Caymans just to avoid taxes and maximize profits, I wouldn't be calling anyone an asshole.


Well said.
 
2014-07-25 06:56:25 AM  
Better idea: You move your company "off shore" to avoid taxes?  Well, now you're considered a foreign company and have to pay import fees on every damn thing you sell, even if it's manufactured within the US.
 
2014-07-25 07:04:17 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Better idea: You move your company "off shore" to avoid taxes?  Well, now you're considered a foreign company and have to pay import fees on every damn thing you sell, even if it's manufactured within the US.


Even better idea....if your company is majority owned by Americans and headquartered offshore and don't pay US taxes, you can't do business in the US at all.

/yeah I know that's not realistic
 
2014-07-25 07:49:57 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


FTA: AbbVie, the spinoff of Abbott Laboratories based in North Chicago, have merger transactions in play.
On July 18, the boards of drug makers AbbVie and Shire, headquartered on the island of Jersey, a British crown dependency that the U.S. regards as a tax haven, announced the firms would combine. AbbVie would create a new company, called "New AbbVie," incorporated in Jersey,  a transaction that AbbVie said could reduce its tax rate to 13 percent by 2016.


Now, let's look at this.  Is AbbVie going to close it's US businesses and labs?  No, they aren't.  So their drain on resources in the US will stay the same.  They'll still be expecting the same police and firefighters to respond to calls.  They're still using the same roads.  They're still using the same employees.  And yet, they want to all of a sudden pay less for the privilege of doing business in the US.  Why should they be allowed to do so?  Do those services all of a sudden cost less because they changed the mailing address on their IRS forms?

As for the Republican's response: Kirk disagreed that the tactic is a tax dodge. If companies "make a decision to make sure that they are more profitable, then they are more likely to hire people," Kirk said.

How does a party get the image of being fiscally responsible if they don't understand that the money spent on employee's wages and benefits is not taxable to the employer because that money is a cost, not a profit.  It doesn't matter whether your business is being taxed 5% or 95%, if hiring a new worker raising your productivity and therefore your profits, you're making more money.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-07-25 08:46:33 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


Because not taxing them allows them to not pull their weight.
 
2014-07-25 09:31:08 AM  
Ireland must be thrilled with their abundance of new corporate post office boxes.
 
2014-07-25 09:33:53 AM  
I hope the president realizes corporate America inspired, funded and profited from a certain banjo playing Australian.

Corporate America is just fancy words for scum.
 
2014-07-25 09:34:06 AM  

vpb: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

Because not taxing them allows them to not pull their weight.


He probably thinks that these companies will suddenly make new high paying jobs for a whole slew of soon-to-be American Millionaires. Self Made Millionaires at that.
 
2014-07-25 09:34:47 AM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Corporate America is just fancy words for scum.


I can't argue against this.
 
2014-07-25 09:36:10 AM  
I heard enough of this speech to wonder "why is he mad at companies that are following the letter of the law instead of being upset that the law was so poorly written?"  but I assume that the parts I heard were taken out of context.  Obama may be a bad president but he is not that stupid.  Nor are his speech writers.
 
2014-07-25 09:36:31 AM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I hope the president realizes corporate America inspired, funded and profited from a certain banjo playing Australian.


Just once can we have a thread where Godwin isn't invoked? But at least you were accurate and didn't say he was natively German.
 
2014-07-25 09:37:10 AM  
The good news is that even as a foreign company, they can still enjoy all the rights of a living breathing US citizen, including the right to bribe candidates influence elections.
 
2014-07-25 09:39:04 AM  

pueblonative: Considering the fact that the majority of the world operates on a progressive tax system whereby the companies that are "doing well" are taxed more


Can you guess why companies are routing their profits through "other countries" rather than the US? (Hint, it's not super low corporate tax rates here in the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates#Countries
 
2014-07-25 09:39:06 AM  
Well I'm sure the GOP house will get right on this.
 
2014-07-25 09:39:06 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


So you think we should tax businesses that AREN'T doing well higher than ones that are...?
 
2014-07-25 09:40:02 AM  
Lawlessness!
 
2014-07-25 09:40:12 AM  

s2s2s2: Can you guess why companies are routing their profits through "other countries" rather than the US? (Hint, it's not super low corporate tax rates here in the US).


Because it's easier to pay off the leaders of a piss ant tax shelter nation then it is to take over a large country?
 
2014-07-25 09:40:44 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


I present a well known business axiom: 'You're not going to be successful being the cheapest whore on the block'
 
2014-07-25 09:42:50 AM  

s2s2s2: pueblonative: Considering the fact that the majority of the world operates on a progressive tax system whereby the companies that are "doing well" are taxed more

Can you guess why companies are routing their profits through "other countries" rather than the US? (Hint, it's not super low corporate tax rates here in the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates#Countries


What's that got to do with the nature of a progressive tax system?
 
2014-07-25 09:43:15 AM  

syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.


Interdasting. Take advantage of all the infrastructure in the US, but avoid as much of the bill for all that infrastructure as possible. Take advantage of all the protections afforded by the US government, but avoid as much of the bill for all that protection as possible.
 
2014-07-25 09:43:57 AM  

MFAWG: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

I present a well known business axiom: 'You're not going to be successful being the cheapest whore on the block'


something something wal mart
 
2014-07-25 09:44:51 AM  

Bloody William: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I hope the president realizes corporate America inspired, funded and profited from a certain banjo playing Australian.

Just once can we have a thread where Godwin isn't invoked? But at least you were accurate and didn't say he was natively German.


Well, I was nay so much invoking that guy as I was invoking US industrialists like Henry Ford and his initial publishing of the Protocols of Zion which interestingly enough is cited by Hamas in their charter. But yeah I guess I Godwinned.
 
2014-07-25 09:45:23 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

Interdasting. Take advantage of all the infrastructure in the US, but avoid as much of the bill for all that infrastructure as possible. Take advantage of all the protections afforded by the US government, but avoid as much of the bill for all that protection as possible.


It's the American way.

For an added bonus, the people who support this kind of corporate tax dodging are the first to complain about "skin in the game" when it comes to individuals who have no federal income tax burden.
 
2014-07-25 09:45:40 AM  

sprawl15: MFAWG: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

I present a well known business axiom: 'You're not going to be successful being the cheapest whore on the block'

something something wal mart


I just wish cheap hookers provided fat guy scooters so I could peruse their wares in comfort.
 
2014-07-25 09:45:47 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: paying a fraction of what they owe.


If they are truly "paying a fraction of what they  owe, then prosecute them.

But U imagine that you truly meant that they are "paying a fraction of the statutory maximum rate," which is something that applies not only to businesses, but to individuals as well.
 
2014-07-25 09:45:49 AM  

SurfaceTension: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Better idea: You move your company "off shore" to avoid taxes?  Well, now you're considered a foreign company and have to pay import fees on every damn thing you sell, even if it's manufactured within the US.

Even better idea....if your company is majority owned by Americans and headquartered offshore and don't pay US taxes, you can't do business in the US at all.

/yeah I know that's not realistic


How about we make it so if your company is headquartered outside the USA we make it illegal for the company and any of its "executive" employees or board of directors to contribute to campaigns (either directly or through SuperPACs or other "independent" organization) and illegal to lobby congress in any way.  If you are a foreign entity, or your primary job is to represent a foreign entity, you should have no say in how the US is being run and any attempt to do so should be severely punishable.
 
2014-07-25 09:46:22 AM  
Ugh "But *I* imagine....."
 
2014-07-25 09:47:43 AM  
Oh, cool - a "lectures on 19th century economic theories from teenagers who just finished "The Fountainhead" thread.
Be still, my beating heart.
 
2014-07-25 09:47:43 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

Interdasting. Take advantage of all the infrastructure in the US, but avoid as much of the bill for all that infrastructure as possible. Take advantage of all the protections afforded by the US government, but avoid as much of the bill for all that protection as possible.


It really is a shame that there is no way to write a law (or delete a law) that would still tax enterprise conducted in the United States independent of location of corporate headquarters.   It could also tax all enterprise equally.  that would be cool too.  But there cant be or the politicians who are for the poor and middle class would have already done this.
 
2014-07-25 09:48:18 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: sprawl15: MFAWG: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

I present a well known business axiom: 'You're not going to be successful being the cheapest whore on the block'

something something wal mart

I just wish cheap hookers provided fat guy scooters so I could peruse their wares in comfort.


that reminds me, i need to invent a fat guy scooter that uses a hammock instead of a chair
 
2014-07-25 09:49:37 AM  

lithven: SurfaceTension: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Better idea: You move your company "off shore" to avoid taxes?  Well, now you're considered a foreign company and have to pay import fees on every damn thing you sell, even if it's manufactured within the US.

Even better idea....if your company is majority owned by Americans and headquartered offshore and don't pay US taxes, you can't do business in the US at all.

/yeah I know that's not realistic

How about we make it so if your company is headquartered outside the USA we make it illegal for the company and any of its "executive" employees or board of directors to contribute to campaigns (either directly or through SuperPACs or other "independent" organization) and illegal to lobby congress in any way.  If you are a foreign entity, or your primary job is to represent a foreign entity, you should have no say in how the US is being run and any attempt to do so should be severely punishable.


I am curious what other rights and privileges you would remove from US citizens who work for a foreign company that might have operations in the United States.
 
2014-07-25 09:51:06 AM  

bigsteve3OOO: rzrwiresunrise: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

Interdasting. Take advantage of all the infrastructure in the US, but avoid as much of the bill for all that infrastructure as possible. Take advantage of all the protections afforded by the US government, but avoid as much of the bill for all that protection as possible.

It really is a shame that there is no way to write a law (or delete a law) that would still tax enterprise conducted in the United States independent of location of corporate headquarters.   It could also tax all enterprise equally.  that would be cool too.  But there cant be or the politicians who are for the poor and middle class would have already done this.


IANAL or tax professional, and I'm way to lazy this morning to check before I open my big yap.  But isn't that what VAT is?  I feel like you're being snarky and implying that our congress is full of childish morons, but I don't even know anymore.
 
2014-07-25 09:51:52 AM  
It's obvious that tax rates for large corporate businesses should be zero and the difference should be made up by small businesses and the middle class.
 
2014-07-25 09:52:10 AM  

sprawl15: HotWingConspiracy: sprawl15: MFAWG: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

I present a well known business axiom: 'You're not going to be successful being the cheapest whore on the block'

something something wal mart

I just wish cheap hookers provided fat guy scooters so I could peruse their wares in comfort.

that reminds me, i need to invent a fat guy scooter that uses a hammock instead of a chair


U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A
 
2014-07-25 09:53:35 AM  

Epic Fap Session: The good news is that even as a foreign company, they can still enjoy all the rights of a living breathing US citizen, including the right to bribe candidates influence elections.


Which would make for one fun way to turn the screw on tax-dodging corporations. All of your profits are being routed through a shell corp based in the Isle of Man? So sorry, but because of the new Prevent Scary Muslim Terror Corporations From Stealing Our Freedoms Act of 2015 that passed unanimously to address concerns that Hamas would set up companies in the US to steal elections, it's now terribly illegal for you or your subsidiaries to spend a dime on political action...no lobbying, no donations to politicians, no PAC money, no wholly-owned think tanks, and all of your American executives have to register as foreign agents. Good luck out there!
 
2014-07-25 09:54:17 AM  

Epic Fap Session: The good news is that even as a foreign company, they can still enjoy all the rights of a living breathing US citizen, including the right to bribe candidates influence elections.


You bring up an excellent point. If the HQ is a PO box in a tax haven it should be a federal felony to contribute to any campaign, political party, PAC, Super PAC and so on.
 
2014-07-25 09:54:44 AM  
but i thought he was the worst socialist ever.

tristanrobinblakeman.com

money is going to flow to where taxes are lowest and it can be used most efficiently.  if that is outside of the US, then it will flow outside the US.  nothing can stop that
 
2014-07-25 09:55:19 AM  
Sorry folks, it's not tax rates that are driving inversions, it's the provision of US tax law that taxes earnings wherever they were earned, which puts us at a HUGE disadvantage.  You can actually reincorporate in a place with significantly higher rates and massively reduce your overall tax burden.  American companies operating internationally are at a significant disadvantage because if they repatriate their foreign earnings, they pay US taxes on those even though they've been taxed where they were earned already.  We're the outlier on that.  If you were running one of these companies (and you're not, you're here), you'd be negligent not to examine the possibilities of an inversion.

I can't decide if Obama's suggestion that corporations should shut up and salute are more ignorant or offensive.  Either way, unless he wants to borrow from his friend Hugo Chavez's playbook and start nationalizing companies, it's ineffective at best.
 
2014-07-25 09:55:34 AM  
i.imgur.com


this was funnier when i had the coat of arms of jersey mixed up with the isle of man
 
2014-07-25 09:56:31 AM  
Just get rid of corporate or business taxes altogether and replace them with higher income taxes, and consider "income" to be all forms of compensation paid to an employee.  Or, if you really want to keep them around, only apply them to businesses for whom the value of all compensation paid to the highest-earning employee is  < x(lowest-earning employee's compensation).
 
2014-07-25 09:56:44 AM  
Next time one of these companies is hacked, I don't want to hear a single word from them commenting on what the FBI and other law enforcement is doing to protect their business and to get justice. You don't want to pay for services that protect you, then don't expect the services to be offered to you.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:37 AM  

BeesNuts: bigsteve3OOO: rzrwiresunrise: syrynxx: Hey asshole, how about making it so companies want to be headquartered in the US? Ayn Rand is an idiot, but taxing companies that are doing well is not a great incentive for them to keep doing well in the US.

Interdasting. Take advantage of all the infrastructure in the US, but avoid as much of the bill for all that infrastructure as possible. Take advantage of all the protections afforded by the US government, but avoid as much of the bill for all that protection as possible.

It really is a shame that there is no way to write a law (or delete a law) that would still tax enterprise conducted in the United States independent of location of corporate headquarters.   It could also tax all enterprise equally.  that would be cool too.  But there cant be or the politicians who are for the poor and middle class would have already done this.

IANAL or tax professional, and I'm way to lazy this morning to check before I open my big yap.  But isn't that what VAT is?  I feel like you're being snarky and implying that our congress is full of childish morons, but I don't even know anymore.


Close.  I am stating the fact that corporations behave the way they do because congress both r & d have given them the green light to do so.  Your party, whichever you belong to, has set up a system where a company like GE gets advantages that other companies do not.  All of this is at the expense of the citizens the supposedly represent.  No they are not morons.  They are well paid puppets.
 
2014-07-25 09:59:49 AM  
The solution to this stuff is quite obvious - in the future companies should pay tax in each country on what profits they earn in each country. And if they try to claim that their entire corporate profits is based on 50-500 people working in some low tax country/state, and their other 100,000 employees cost them money then the government can send in some independent auditors, and if that is true fine. If not the CEO, CFO and other senior staff that signed off it in go to jail - even up to life in jail for the ones that are stealing billions from everyone else through such obviously fraudulent activity (regardless whether they have bribed enough politicians to make it legal currently).
 
2014-07-25 10:01:41 AM  
Using foreign companies is ok, and moving overseas shouldn't be a big deal.

The US gives some great deals to foreign companies.    I think a Canadian firm got millions to build an OBAMACARE website.

Must be ok.
 
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