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(Washington Post)   "My son has been suspended five times. He's 3 years old." Sounds like you really hit that parenting thing out the park   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 235
    More: Fail, Office of Civil Rights, Journal of Personality, sons  
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10270 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2014 at 6:18 AM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-24 09:55:41 PM
"I received a call from my sons' school in March telling me that my oldest needed to be picked up early. He had been given a one-day suspension because he had thrown a chair.  "

I love the show and all, but maybe 4 is a bit young to be watching The Boondocks.
 
2014-07-24 10:07:45 PM
I'm not sure making sure the readers know your kid is an undisciplined punk in the making is the best way to make the point about racial disparity in child punishment.
 
2014-07-24 10:15:44 PM
Why did she not question the school's fairness? Go before the school board and say exactly what she said here? Make the school's prove that her little monsters really had no home training and that the discipline plans were followed exactly the same for all the other undisciplined monsters that go to that school?
 
2014-07-24 10:17:11 PM

Deedeemarz: Why did she not question the school's fairness? Go before the school board and say exactly what she said here? Make the school's prove that her little monsters really had no home training and that the discipline plans were followed exactly the same for all the other undisciplined monsters that go to that school?


This up here^
 
2014-07-24 10:17:52 PM
3 year olds go to preschool? Are there like 5 years of pre-elementary-school school these days or do they just call daycare "preschool" now so they can charge double?


One after another, white mothers confessed the trouble their children had gotten into. Some of the behavior was similar to JJ's; some was much worse.  Most startling: None of their children had been suspended.

Well there's your problem.  If your kid's spitting on "class"mates and throwing chairs at them then he's an evil little sociopath that needs to be dealt with.


/fark kids anyway (not literally).  I refuse to spend extended amounts of time around anyone until they're 15 at the very minimum
 
2014-07-24 10:23:45 PM

dookdookdook: If your kid's spitting on "class"mates and throwing chairs at them then he's an evil little sociopath that needs to be dealt with.


And we're done. If there was some little ahole doing this in my kid's class, I'd be really concerned nothing was being done about it.
 
2014-07-24 10:26:21 PM
Throwing chairs at 4?  Kid keeps it up and he'll be CEO of Microsoft by 12.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2014-07-24 10:30:51 PM

dookdookdook: Well there's your problem.  If your kid's spitting on "class"mates and throwing chairs at them then he's an evil little sociopath that needs to be dealt with.


Um...what about the other kids that did worse/the same thing but didn't get suspended?

Irving Maimway: And we're done. If there was some little ahole doing this in my kid's class, I'd be really concerned nothing was being done about it.


Again, what about the kids that are doing this same exact stuff but not getting suspended.

You two guys don't read very well, do you?  Hell you even highlighted it.  None of their kids were suspended for doing similar/worse things than her kids, but only her kids were suspended.

What else is she supposed to believe?
 
2014-07-24 10:42:54 PM

MBK: dookdookdook: Well there's your problem.  If your kid's spitting on "class"mates and throwing chairs at them then he's an evil little sociopath that needs to be dealt with.

Um...what about the other kids that did worse/the same thing but didn't get suspended?


That was the entire point of my post.  The problem isn't that the black kid did get suspended, it's that the white kid didn't.
 
2014-07-24 10:53:17 PM
I really like her statement that her son hits, spits, throws chairs and he's not a bad boy.  Maybe he isn't a bad boy, but his behavior certainly is, and it needs to be punished.

I would question where he learned that was an acceptable action.
 
2014-07-24 11:00:58 PM

MBK: None of their kids were suspended for doing similar/worse things than her kids, but only her kids were suspended.


That was the part I had a hard time believing. My kids are translucent, and we were told if the youngest kept biting he was going to be suspended. Maybe I'm sheltered but I've yet to see any favoritism or racism in preschool/daycare.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2014-07-24 11:12:42 PM

BizarreMan: I really like her statement that her son hits, spits, throws chairs and he's not a bad boy.  Maybe he isn't a bad boy, but his behavior certainly is, and it needs to be punished.

I would question where he learned that was an acceptable action.


I work with kids (ages 5-12) and have so for about 5 years.  I can tell you that one kid's behavior with an adult is vastly different than one with other kids.  I had a boy, who would always listen to the staff and adults in the summer camp program.  Never had to tell him twice to clean up.  Always wanted to play catch with an adult, and exhibited normal behavior.

That is, until another kid got him angry, or took his ball, or beat him in a game.  Then the calm, good natured kid would lash out and punch the other kid.


dookdookdook: The problem isn't that the black kid did get suspended, it's that the white kid didn't.


Isn't that a problem?  If a white kid is exhibiting violent behavior, shouldn't he/she get suspended?  She acknowledges that her kid did what he did.  She is confused why the others didn't get the same punishment.
Isn't that a safety concern?  Isn't that a much larger concern than a kid getting suspended?
 
2014-07-24 11:19:58 PM

MBK: dookdookdook: Well there's your problem.  If your kid's spitting on "class"mates and throwing chairs at them then he's an evil little sociopath that needs to be dealt with.

Um...what about the other kids that did worse/the same thing but didn't get suspended?

Irving Maimway: And we're done. If there was some little ahole doing this in my kid's class, I'd be really concerned nothing was being done about it.

Again, what about the kids that are doing this same exact stuff but not getting suspended.

You two guys don't read very well, do you?  Hell you even highlighted it.  None of their kids were suspended for doing similar/worse things than her kids, but only her kids were suspended.

What else is she supposed to believe?


Maybe she doesn't understand the White Soccer Mom Humblebrag. "Brayden is such a terror! He didn't even put away all his socks, and when the teacher told him he had to share his toy, he said no. But then he shared it."
 
2014-07-24 11:20:50 PM

Deedeemarz: Why did she not question the school's fairness? Go before the school board and say exactly what she said here? Make the school's prove that her little monsters really had no home training and that the discipline plans were followed exactly the same for all the other undisciplined monsters that go to that school?


Something tells me, perhaps there is more information that she is not including here.
 
2014-07-24 11:25:59 PM

MBK: dookdookdook: The problem isn't that the black kid did get suspended, it's that the white kid didn't.

Isn't that a problem? If a white kid is exhibiting violent behavior, shouldn't he/she get suspended? She acknowledges that her kid did what he did. She is confused why the others didn't get the same punishment.
Isn't that a safety concern? Isn't that a much larger concern than a kid getting suspended?


Absolutely.  So instead of "This school suspended my kid because he's black", the discussion needs to be "Why isn't this school protecting my child from these other little psychopaths?"

Anyway, the entire comparison is borderline worthless since all we have is vague third-hand accounts of what went on with the other kids.
 
2014-07-24 11:51:48 PM

dookdookdook: MBK: dookdookdook: The problem isn't that the black kid did get suspended, it's that the white kid didn't.

Isn't that a problem? If a white kid is exhibiting violent behavior, shouldn't he/she get suspended? She acknowledges that her kid did what he did. She is confused why the others didn't get the same punishment.
Isn't that a safety concern? Isn't that a much larger concern than a kid getting suspended?

Absolutely.  So instead of "This school suspended my kid because he's black", the discussion needs to be "Why isn't this school protecting my child from these other little psychopaths?"

Anyway, the entire comparison is borderline worthless since all we have is vague third-hand accounts of what went on with the other kids.


Pretty much this.  If there's a racial disparity in discipline for the same actions it should be addressed, but there would need to be some actual evidence that the disparity exists.

To the headline, I agree, while this mom says she disciplined her kids at home, she apparently didn't do a very good job of it if they kept acting out like that at school.
 
2014-07-25 12:05:15 AM
Cheese.
 
2014-07-25 12:07:50 AM

dookdookdook: MBK: dookdookdook: The problem isn't that the black kid did get suspended, it's that the white kid didn't.

Isn't that a problem? If a white kid is exhibiting violent behavior, shouldn't he/she get suspended? She acknowledges that her kid did what he did. She is confused why the others didn't get the same punishment.
Isn't that a safety concern? Isn't that a much larger concern than a kid getting suspended?

Absolutely.  So instead of "This school suspended my kid because he's black", the discussion needs to be "Why isn't this school protecting my child from these other little psychopaths?"

Anyway, the entire comparison is borderline worthless since all we have is vague third-hand accounts of what went on with the other kids.


so I READ THE ARTICLE ...
and she

"I know that I am only one person and that it will be difficult for me to change the system. But I will do my part at my kids' preschool. I joined the parent advisory board and intend to work with it until I see change. I encourage other parents to join parent boards and attend school meetings that are open to parents. This is not the time to be silent. We must speak out. I cannot go back and undo what was done to me, but I refuse to let it be done to my children. "

she is trying to actually change the system
either suspend all the kids for the same crime, or not.
but she actually seemed like a rational parent.
not thinking that her kid was perfect, but acknowledging that no system is perfect and maybe she could help fix it a little.

spitting? throwing shiat?
pretty much normal for kids

would be INTERESTING to get hidden cameras into these schools and see what happens when they dont know that they are being watched ...
but we already know the answer ...
 
2014-07-25 12:28:10 AM
Well, obviously after the third conviction he should have been suspended for life. Tough sentencing is the only thing  those toddlers understand.

Seriously, though, if you think a three-year-old black kid can't be racially profiled, you misunderstand the whole concept. He's not exempt from it because he's harmless and has the mental capacity of a hamster (like all kids his age). He's ESPECIALLY susceptible to it because he can't fight back, and he hasn't figured out yet that it's incredibly important for him to learn how to manage certain people's expectations of him.

He'll figure it out pretty soon, though. He'll notice that his classmates Jacob and Brittany "have little potty accidents" but he "shiats his pants like an animal." Kids are smart like that.
 
2014-07-25 12:28:57 AM
if the kids are being treated differently based on race, then obviously that needs to be fixed.

but that doesn't excuse your little snowflake (do black parents call their kids little snowflakes?) from throwing a chair.  that and the seven other incidents that resulted in them being suspended is a reflection on your poor parenting.  or a lack of medication.  take them to the GP and get them doped up like every other kid out there.  it's my understanding they give that stuff out like candy and obamacare pays for everything.
 
2014-07-25 01:23:52 AM

2xhelix: Throwing chairs at 4?  Kid keeps it up and he'll be CEO of Microsoft by 12.



OMG I actively defended myself in targeted, aggressive rockfights throughout elementary school. Tantrums at four where whatever's handy gets thrown? Kids do that.

You stop them by immediately associating the shiatty behavior with the swift correction or time out, make them sulk in isolation while the other kids get to play, when they long to join the other kids and acknowledge *why* what they did what wrong, they learn the cause/effect relationship of their actions. Suspension is so utterly abstract at that age anyway, they don't process it. You've accomplished nothing.

But perhaps that wasn't really the point of their exercise, anyway.
 
2014-07-25 01:35:59 AM
"I was expelled from preschool and went on to serve more suspensions than I can remember. But I do remember my teachers' disparaging words."


First, those two sentences don't go together at all.

And B, perhaps the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


/try not to squeeze out any more demon seed
 
2014-07-25 01:44:31 AM
FTFA:

"One after another, white mothers confessed the trouble their children had gotten into. Some of the behavior was similar to JJ's; some was much worse.
Most startling: None of their children had been suspended."

This is her point although it was hard to tell from her rambling.  She's couching her argument inefficiently.  She's saying "we're being treated unfairly" rather than "you have unfair practices".

There is a big difference between the two for audiences.
 
2014-07-25 01:47:30 AM

corq: 2xhelix: Throwing chairs at 4?  Kid keeps it up and he'll be CEO of Microsoft by 12.


OMG I actively defended myself in targeted, aggressive rockfights throughout elementary school. Tantrums at four where whatever's handy gets thrown? Kids do that.

You stop them by immediately associating the shiatty behavior with the swift correction or time out, make them sulk in isolation while the other kids get to play, when they long to join the other kids and acknowledge *why* what they did what wrong, they learn the cause/effect relationship of their actions. Suspension is so utterly abstract at that age anyway, they don't process it. You've accomplished nothing.

But perhaps that wasn't really the point of their exercise, anyway.


Suspension at that age isn't to punish the kid, it's to inconvenience the parent so that the parent will get the kid in line before send him/her back into school.
 
2014-07-25 02:29:29 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Suspension at that age isn't to punish the kid, it's to inconvenience the parent so that the parent will get the kid in line before send him/her back into school.


QFT

/well... except for that spelling error ;)
 
2014-07-25 02:48:38 AM
We get it. He's blah...
 
2014-07-25 05:10:56 AM

2xhelix: Throwing chairs at 4?  Kid keeps it up and he'll be CEO of Microsoft by 12.


If not that, he certainly has a promising future as the men's basketball coach at Indiana:

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-07-25 05:57:37 AM
img.washingtonpost.com

My son said that Jews hate the Black Man and that Hitler was right, that white people are devils and that America is Satan's playground. He's been suspended 8 times!

/jk, cute kid
 
2014-07-25 06:00:45 AM

Irving Maimway: MBK: None of their kids were suspended for doing similar/worse things than her kids, but only her kids were suspended.

That was the part I had a hard time believing. My kids are translucent, and we were told if the youngest kept biting he was going to be suspended. Maybe I'm sheltered but I've yet to see any favoritism or racism in preschool/daycare.


I think that's the point... you and your kids are getting warned that suspension will happen if the behavior continues (and maybe you've gotten them a few times to the point where in the back of your mind you know the school won't do anything), whereas this woman just got a phone call one day to come pick up her kid.
 
2014-07-25 06:15:20 AM

dookdookdook: 3 year olds go to preschool? Are there like 5 years of pre-elementary-school school these days or do they just call daycare "preschool" now so they can charge double?



I had a co-worker with a 2-year-old who went to daycare in the office building and she always called it "school." I think it's the parents doing that because it (a) makes their kid sound super-smart for being in school since birth and (b) makes them feel better about their kids being raised by daycares. She also had a few nannies/babysitters and the kid called them all "aunt" - I assume for the same reason.  It didn't seem like she had much to do with her kid's life other than showing off the designer clothing she bought her. Because it makes sense to spend tons of money on clothes for a 2-year-old who will outgrow it right away.
 
2014-07-25 06:30:14 AM
Maybe the kid just doesn't want to be in school.  Find someone else to watch him for a year or two and maybe the bad behavior will clear up.
 
2014-07-25 06:30:30 AM

vernonFL: [img.washingtonpost.com image 540x790]

My son said that Jews hate the Black Man and that Hitler was right, that white people are devils and that America is Satan's playground. He's been suspended 8 times!

/jk, cute kid


Just keep this kid away from the Skittles and he'll be fine.
 
2014-07-25 06:30:46 AM
That kid sounds like a dick
 
2014-07-25 06:32:39 AM
It is possible her story about her kids is true, complete, and unbiased. It certainly should be looked into.
 
2014-07-25 06:35:19 AM

namatad: spitting? throwing shiat?
pretty much normal for kids


What the hell kind of little monsters are you around?

Spitting? On the ground, and outside only.

Throwing things? Unless you were one of the slow kids, you only did it a couple of times before you figured out that you were going to get in trouble and that you really would rather not.

I don't quite know how people are raising their kids these days, as both of my step-daughters are practically grown. But behavior like that wasn't tolerated when I was a kid, nor when the girls were younger.
 
2014-07-25 06:36:07 AM

serpent_sky: dookdookdook: 3 year olds go to preschool? Are there like 5 years of pre-elementary-school school these days or do they just call daycare "preschool" now so they can charge double?


I had a co-worker with a 2-year-old who went to daycare in the office building and she always called it "school." I think it's the parents doing that because it (a) makes their kid sound super-smart for being in school since birth and (b) makes them feel better about their kids being raised by daycares. She also had a few nannies/babysitters and the kid called them all "aunt" - I assume for the same reason.  It didn't seem like she had much to do with her kid's life other than showing off the designer clothing she bought her. Because it makes sense to spend tons of money on clothes for a 2-year-old who will outgrow it right away.


Good daycares actually teach stuff to little kids. They go to school better prepared than the ones who were warehoused in a cheap one.
A kid in preschool/daycare at 3 or4 is being socialized for the first time and is just starting to learn to deal w/ non family adults and other kids.
Any one who thinks "parenting" is automatically to blame for everything a young child does around strangers doesn't know anything about kids or "parenting" and should really keep his lips together.
Kids behave very differently when away from the parents.
 
2014-07-25 06:40:39 AM

dstrick44: Good daycares actually teach stuff to little kids. They go to school better prepared than the ones who were warehoused in a cheap one.
A kid in preschool/daycare at 3 or4 is being socialized for the first time and is just starting to learn to deal w/ non family adults and other kids.


This place was largely run by young people/teenagers in the summer, and the kids played outside most of the day unless the weather was bad. It was no school... it was a daycare, where they paid the bare minimum (I saw ads for them when they were hiring) for some legal adults to entertain a bunch of kids while the parents were at work.  The kid was FAR from socialized... when she was in the office, she just stood and stared at people like a total mutant and frankly, creeped me out. Though that was far more preferable than a kid that made a lot of noise, as the sounds kids make is worse than nails on a chalkboard.

/Goddamnit, that reminds me I have to do laundry today. There are always kids in the goddamned laundromat.
 
2014-07-25 06:42:37 AM

abhorrent1: That kid sounds like a dick


kid sounds like a 3 year old.  They spit and throw things in frustration.


/ I know, not your kid.
 
2014-07-25 06:43:00 AM

namatad: dookdookdook: MBK: dookdookdook: The problem isn't that the black kid did get suspended, it's that the white kid didn't.

Isn't that a problem? If a white kid is exhibiting violent behavior, shouldn't he/she get suspended? She acknowledges that her kid did what he did. She is confused why the others didn't get the same punishment.
Isn't that a safety concern? Isn't that a much larger concern than a kid getting suspended?

Absolutely.  So instead of "This school suspended my kid because he's black", the discussion needs to be "Why isn't this school protecting my child from these other little psychopaths?"

Anyway, the entire comparison is borderline worthless since all we have is vague third-hand accounts of what went on with the other kids.

so I READ THE ARTICLE ...
and she

"I know that I am only one person and that it will be difficult for me to change the system. But I will do my part at my kids' preschool. I joined the parent advisory board and intend to work with it until I see change. I encourage other parents to join parent boards and attend school meetings that are open to parents. This is not the time to be silent. We must speak out. I cannot go back and undo what was done to me, but I refuse to let it be done to my children. "

she is trying to actually change the system
either suspend all the kids for the same crime, or not.
but she actually seemed like a rational parent.
not thinking that her kid was perfect, but acknowledging that no system is perfect and maybe she could help fix it a little.

spitting? throwing shiat?
pretty much normal for kids


would be INTERESTING to get hidden cameras into these schools and see what happens when they dont know that they are being watched ...
but we already know the answer ...


Maybe at home but not in a school or daycare...if we did that shiat in kindergarten when I was young, it'd be the Cooler...yeah, I'm old, I admit it. In fact THIS is why I am so glad I never had kids. I went into a grade school a few years back for the first time in 3 decades and I couldn't believe what the little shiats were getting away with. When we were kids, you walked from room to room in a straight line and kept your mouth shut. No running in the halls, no mischief. Those nuns would beat the ever-lovin' shiat out of you if you stepped outta line. If kids are basically allowed to be out of control and not have manners or be polite at school, we farked as a society.

/lawn..get....oh, you know
 
2014-07-25 06:45:54 AM
It's possible to have too much structure for a 3 year old. They also need time to be 3. Maybe he's acting out because you send him to baby prison 12 hours a day so you carry on as if you're childless.
 
2014-07-25 06:49:51 AM
This isnt about fixing her kid it is about fixing the system.
 
2014-07-25 06:51:09 AM
The other kids' parents seemed to give half a fark when the school told them?
 
2014-07-25 06:55:37 AM
How is suspension a punishment anyway? Behave badly and get rewarded with staying at home. Now, after class detention on the other hand.
 
2014-07-25 06:57:01 AM

lucksi: How is suspension a punishment anyway? Behave badly and get rewarded with staying at home. Now, after class detention on the other hand.


It is to force involvement from the parent. The PARENT should fix the child, not the school.
 
2014-07-25 07:00:05 AM

stuhayes2010: kid sounds like a 3 year old. They spit and throw things in frustration.


/ I know, not your kid.


I don't have one so, yeah.
 
2014-07-25 07:02:39 AM

MBK: Isn't that a problem? If a white rich and/or well-connected kid is exhibiting violent behavior, shouldn't he/she get suspended?


FTFY
 
2014-07-25 07:02:52 AM

dookdookdook: 3 year olds go to preschool? Are there like 5 years of pre-elementary-school school these days or do they just call daycare "preschool" now so they can charge double?


One after another, white mothers confessed the trouble their children had gotten into. Some of the behavior was similar to JJ's; some was much worse.  Most startling: None of their children had been suspended.

Well there's your problem.  If your kid's spitting on "class"mates and throwing chairs at them then he's an evil little sociopath that needs to be dealt with.


/fark kids anyway (not literally).  I refuse to spend extended amounts of time around anyone until they're 15 at the very minimum


More often than not, if a kid is completely out-of-control at 3, he needs a behavioral IEP.

Unless the parents specifically tried to raise a sociopath, of course.
 
2014-07-25 07:05:23 AM
Film it. Film everything. No other way to be objective about this.
 
2014-07-25 07:09:59 AM

mikaloyd: It is possible her story about her kids is true, complete, and unbiased. It certainly should be looked into.


Yes.  It's tremendously difficult to be completely unbiased about your kids.  And it gets much, much worse with grandkids.  But if her story is true and accurate, then this pre-school needs to be looked into.  I'd be willing to wager that even most of the white parents would be horrified to find out that the pre-school to which they are sending their children is racist.  That's not something most parents want their children to learn or observe and kids that age observe more than we'd like to give them credit for.
 
2014-07-25 07:13:17 AM

Mr. Right: Yes. It's tremendously difficult to be completely unbiased about your kids. And it gets much, much worse with grandkids. But if her story is true and accurate, then this pre-school needs to be looked into. I'd be willing to wager that even most of the white parents would be horrified to find out that the pre-school to which they are sending their children is racist. That's not something most parents want their children to learn or observe and kids that age observe more than we'd like to give them credit for.


OR if the school/daycare/whatever the hell it actually is is full of kids who are throwing chairs and displaying violent behavior and it's not just this kid, all the parents should want that looked into, as well, since that is not healthy or normal behavior and there must be some underlying cause that is tied to the school/daycare, since that would be the unifying factor behind the abnormal behavior.
 
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