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(The Raw Story)   Nearly inevitable next Congressman for GA's 10th district in response to a mass shooting: ""It is my belief that any weapon that our government and law enforcement possesses ought to be allowed for individuals to possess in this country"   (rawstory.com) divider line 271
    More: Scary  
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1124 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jul 2014 at 6:13 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



271 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-07-24 04:03:42 PM  
img.gawkerassets.com

OK sure, whatever, pal.. Just pray that the first asshole that buys one of these off Craigslist lives a few hundred miles downwind from you..
 
2014-07-24 04:15:47 PM  
The nuttery is strong with that one.
 
2014-07-24 04:21:19 PM  
I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.
 
2014-07-24 04:28:32 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.


I trust that the vast majority of police officers are dedicated to the public good and execute their duties with respect to those they serve.  There are some bad apples to be sure, but like anything the bad ones make the news, we never hear about the ones performing their duties responsibly day in and day out.

That being said, the militarization of some departments and the growing use of SWAT teams for mundane tasks is a problem.  However, a lot of that comes from an increasingly armed civilian population.

I'd love to see the police patrol the streets with nothing more than a night stick, pepper spray, and maybe a .38 service revolver, but we can't expect them to do that when true average Joe can go buy as many AR-15s as his credit limit will allow, and Tec-9s flow like water through the criminal black market.

Let's do something about the gross oversupply of guns in this country and then we can ask the police to disarm a bit themselves.
 
2014-07-24 04:30:37 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.


I'm armed to the teeth, for all the good it will do me.  I don't see how an RPG is going to even out the odds.  What I really need is my own company of highly trained light infantry, with maybe a couple helicopters in support.
 
2014-07-24 05:11:30 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's do something about the gross oversupply of guns in this country and then we can ask the police to disarm a bit themselves.


This will never happen, though. There is no reason for any party to come to the table and call for a de-escalation. There are also conflicting interests -- do you know how many cops are NRA members?

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool, leftist, pro-union, pro-socialized medicine, lefty left left left, and I own quite a few firearms and advocate for gun ownership. If shiat ever hits the fan, it frightens me that the only people with the power to defend themselves would be the police, rednecks, and thugs.
 
2014-07-24 05:39:30 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: If shiat ever hits the fan, it frightens me that the only people with the power to defend themselves would be the police, rednecks, and thugs.


You heard it here folks.. World War III will start in America, at Walmart, on the PBR and beef jerky aisle!!
 
2014-07-24 06:18:31 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: . If shiat ever hits the fan, it frightens me that the only people with the power to defend themselves would be the police, rednecks, and thugs.


You see, I just refuse to believe that our society is so fragile that the shiat would ever hit the fan. Living with that kind of fear sounds horrible.
 
2014-07-24 06:19:23 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: TuteTibiImperes: Let's do something about the gross oversupply of guns in this country and then we can ask the police to disarm a bit themselves.

This will never happen, though. There is no reason for any party to come to the table and call for a de-escalation. There are also conflicting interests -- do you know how many cops are NRA members?

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool, leftist, pro-union, pro-socialized medicine, lefty left left left, and I own quite a few firearms and advocate for gun ownership. If shiat ever hits the fan, it frightens me that the only people with the power to defend themselves would be the police, rednecks, and thugs.


I don't consider firearms useful for defense. An iPhone with wi-fi, that's a lot more useful.
 
2014-07-24 06:20:08 PM  
"We need these things to shoot American soldiers and police officers!"
 
2014-07-24 06:20:09 PM  

astro716: I just refuse to believe that our society is so fragile that the shiat would ever hit the fan.



Tell that to people who lived through the L.A. Riots.
 
2014-07-24 06:20:12 PM  
I'd say I'd agree with citizens being allowed to possess whatever law enforcement does. Law enforcement will outnumber any group of wackos who want to make a stand, and it would also be a check on small town police departments who for some reason think they need tanks and grenade launchers.


As far as giving citizens the same thing our military uses...hell and no. Those weapons should never cross our borders.
 
2014-07-24 06:21:58 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.

I'm armed to the teeth, for all the good it will do me.  I don't see how an RPG is going to even out the odds.  What I really need is my own company of highly trained light infantry, with maybe a couple helicopters in support.


You can get any of those if you have enough money and don't mind waiting a while. The helicopters are going to be expensive as shiat though, but probably not as expensive as hiring your own private mercenary force.
 
2014-07-24 06:24:30 PM  
Could I please get one of these?


img.fark.net

 The guy across the lake has a really noisy powerboat...
 
2014-07-24 06:25:58 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.


I would suggest that the first step to addressing that problem is to de-militarize the police, and not to militarize the public.
 
2014-07-24 06:27:34 PM  
Nice.  In that case, can someone put me down for one of these?
upload.wikimedia.org

I'll also need lots of taxpayer dollars to fuel and arm it with.  Thaaaaaaanks.
 
2014-07-24 06:28:38 PM  
The underlying concept behind such a statement is even crazier than the statement itself.  He's implying that the gun (or tank I guess) - owning citizens should be well armed enough to somehow overthrow the government (military and police) in a violent revolution if they decide to.  As if that's a good thing.  And without any apparent regard for whether the gun-owners actually represent the majority of the voting population, which has other tools to use to deal with an ineffective or unpopular government (voting).

That's the kind of Grade-A crazy that we're electing in the U.S. these days, I guess.
 
2014-07-24 06:29:49 PM  
Cool.  I'm getting me an attack sub.
 
2014-07-24 06:29:53 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.

I trust that the vast majority of police officers are dedicated to the public good and execute their duties with respect to those they serve.  There are some bad apples to be sure, but like anything the bad ones make the news, we never hear about the ones performing their duties responsibly day in and day out.

That being said, the militarization of some departments and the growing use of SWAT teams for mundane tasks is a problem.  However, a lot of that comes from an increasingly armed civilian population.

I'd love to see the police patrol the streets with nothing more than a night stick, pepper spray, and maybe a .38 service revolver, but we can't expect them to do that when true average Joe can go buy as many AR-15s as his credit limit will allow, and Tec-9s flow like water through the criminal black market.

Let's do something about the gross oversupply of guns in this country and then we can ask the police to disarm a bit themselves.


I'm afraid your faith in law enforcement is grossly misplaced.  Your average cop is nothing more than a clock punching drone.  That in and of itself would be fine except now (as you yourself said) there is a militarization of not some, but all departments.  They're not given the leeway to exercise judgement, and as has been cited a number of times, if you're too sharp, you'll never become a cop.  Lack of thought plus a military mentality which emphasizes "I will go home at the end of my shift, regardless of what it takes" minus a populace that can effectively defend themselves leads to incidents like what happened last week in Stockton, where cops hosed down a car despite knowing there was a hostage in the car.
 
2014-07-24 06:30:32 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I would suggest that the first step to addressing that problem is to de-militarize the police, and not to militarize the public.


This and

astro716: You see, I just refuse to believe that our society is so fragile that the shiat would ever hit the fan. Living with that kind of fear sounds horrible.


This.
 
2014-07-24 06:30:38 PM  
I will not rest until man is able to rent a stealth bomber as easily as he can rent a Toyota Camry.
 
2014-07-24 06:32:25 PM  

astro716: ecmoRandomNumbers: . If shiat ever hits the fan, it frightens me that the only people with the power to defend themselves would be the police, rednecks, and thugs.

You see, I just refuse to believe that our society is so fragile that the shiat would ever hit the fan. Living with that kind of fear sounds horrible.


I'd like to believe that. The problem is that we have a comprehensive knowledge of what happens when people become complacent. I'd point to bread and circuses, etc. etc... but even that's not necessary.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.

I would suggest that the first step to addressing that problem is to de-militarize the police, and not to militarize the public.


You and I both know that will never happen.
 
2014-07-24 06:33:36 PM  
Any weapon that our government possesses? Does that include Gerard Butler and Channing Tatum?
 
2014-07-24 06:33:43 PM  
I simply don't see a problem.
 
2014-07-24 06:33:46 PM  
Wait, wasn't that more or less the way things were once upon a time?  Not military grade like this idiot thinks, but wasn't there a case in the 20's or so where the judgement was that citizens could have any weapon that a law officer might also use on duty but anything beyond that was ruled out?  I vaguely remember this being the reason sawed-off shotguns were outlawed but you could legally have a Tommy gun.
 
2014-07-24 06:35:36 PM  
www.rankopedia.com
My vote for you
 
2014-07-24 06:37:06 PM  

ProdigalSigh: Wait, wasn't that more or less the way things were once upon a time?  Not military grade like this idiot thinks, but wasn't there a case in the 20's or so where the judgement was that citizens could have any weapon that a law officer might also use on duty but anything beyond that was ruled out?  I vaguely remember this being the reason sawed-off shotguns were outlawed but you could legally have a Tommy gun.


Prior to the NFA (1932) there were no Federal restrictions to what sorts of firearms a person could own.  You wanted a short-barreled rifle or shotgun?  Go for it.  You could buy a Browning Automatic Rifle or Thompson over the shelf if you had the money.  People could own an artillery piece if you wanted to.  Tank?  Hell yes, if you had the money it could be yours.  Not anymore.
 
2014-07-24 06:38:03 PM  

IvanTheSilent: ProdigalSigh: Wait, wasn't that more or less the way things were once upon a time?  Not military grade like this idiot thinks, but wasn't there a case in the 20's or so where the judgement was that citizens could have any weapon that a law officer might also use on duty but anything beyond that was ruled out?  I vaguely remember this being the reason sawed-off shotguns were outlawed but you could legally have a Tommy gun.

Prior to the NFA (1932) 1934 there were no Federal restrictions to what sorts of firearms a person could own.  You wanted a short-barreled rifle or shotgun?  Go for it.  You could buy a Browning Automatic Rifle or Thompson over the shelf if you had the money.  People could own an artillery piece if you wanted to.  Tank?  Hell yes, if you had the money it could be yours.  Not anymore.


Corrected...:(
 
2014-07-24 06:38:18 PM  
Except the major problem other than affording all of the high tech weaponry which is designed to fight battles against equipped military is you would be effectively building a military which is not loyal to the United States government within the borders of the United States were you to acquire the weaponry needed to battle them should conflict arise. I am sorry, but the age of civilians standing against the United States military has simply passed due to the destruction a single trained soldier is able to achieve. What we need to look for are ways to reduce the militarization of the police as well as restrict military action within the borders of the United States, should you have earnest fears about military oppression by the government.
 
2014-07-24 06:38:50 PM  
I want a TOW missile


For.. reasons..
 
2014-07-24 06:42:47 PM  
phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range?
 
2014-07-24 06:43:52 PM  

Vangor: Except the major problem other than affording all of the high tech weaponry which is designed to fight battles against equipped military is you would be effectively building a military which is not loyal to the United States government within the borders of the United States were you to acquire the weaponry needed to battle them should conflict arise. I am sorry, but the age of civilians standing against the United States military has simply passed due to the destruction a single trained soldier is able to achieve. What we need to look for are ways to reduce the militarization of the police as well as restrict military action within the borders of the United States, should you have earnest fears about military oppression by the government.


[Devil's advocate, I actually agree with you despite being a gun nut who owns several NFA items...]
So, you're saying the best way to defend against a militarized police force and a military which may potentially be turned against you is to petition the government that has militarized the police and may turn the military against you?
 
2014-07-24 06:44:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I trust that the vast majority of police officers are dedicated to the public good and execute their duties with respect to those they serve.


You're kidding, right?  The spectrum for cops runs from "Low life thug who longed to live a life of crime, but didn't have the stones to go up against the law," through, "Lazy clock-puncher who didn't have any other decent pension-providing prospects and, look, doughnuts!"
 
2014-07-24 06:47:25 PM  
Cool. I want one of those rail guns.
 
2014-07-24 06:49:49 PM  

Vangor: Except the major problem other than affording all of the high tech weaponry which is designed to fight battles against equipped military is you would be effectively building a military which is not loyal to the United States government within the borders of the United States were you to acquire the weaponry needed to battle them should conflict arise. I am sorry, but the age of civilians standing against the United States military has simply passed due to the destruction a single trained soldier is able to achieve. What we need to look for are ways to reduce the militarization of the police as well as restrict military action within the borders of the United States, should you have earnest fears about military oppression by the government.


...the thing is, the only way "military oppression by the government" happens is if there are "civilians standing against the United States military".  And the only ones even playing at trying are the Cliven Bundy allies. And they're only doing that because the federal government is actually averse to even seeming like they're conducting "military oppression by the government", due to Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the stated retaliation in Oklahoma City. In other words, the government's own fear of being oppressors is emboldening those who flaunt the law and hide behind the lip service of defending against government oppression.  The current crop of Bundy types wouldn't be here if the US actually had an oppressive military.
 
2014-07-24 06:50:28 PM  

cefm: The underlying concept behind such a statement is even crazier than the statement itself.  He's implying that the gun (or tank I guess) - owning citizens should be well armed enough to somehow overthrow the government (military and police) in a violent revolution if they decide to.  As if that's a good thing.  And without any apparent regard for whether the gun-owners actually represent the majority of the voting population, which has other tools to use to deal with an ineffective or unpopular government (voting).

That's the kind of Grade-A crazy that we're electing in the U.S. these days, I guess.


Well you see, Thomas Jefferson said some stuff about revolutions and that we should be tolerant of the crazies in our midst overthrowing stuff every few years, so you're not an American if you instead believe in what any other President has ever said, cause 1776 or something.

Besides, that islamofascit currently sullying the WHITE House isnt really the real President cause 50% of Conservatives dont even thing he's American.
 
2014-07-24 06:51:01 PM  

IvanTheSilent: [Devil's advocate, I actually agree with you despite being a gun nut who owns several NFA items...]
So, you're saying the best way to defend against a militarized police force and a military which may potentially be turned against you is to petition the government that has militarized the police and may turn the military against you?


The major issue with this argument is you will need to petition the government for ownership of military weaponry all the same. I think both progressives and conservatives decry militarization of police, with progressives against the intimidation and force against protesting which occurs, conservatives with the fear of government overstep and oppression, and both (I would hope) seeing the connection between the perpetuation of the war on drugs to fund police forces with fancier toys. Both groups also argue against the usage of drones to attack American citizens and especially those within the borders of the United States. Clear, common connection which has been voiced by representatives, too.
 
2014-07-24 06:52:29 PM  
Then give me an dozen RPGs and a nuclear missile to go.

Oh! And a carrier. I want to own one and pretend I'm Nick Fury from The Avengers, fly or no fly.
 
2014-07-24 06:54:38 PM  
I demand the right to bear Apache helicopters!
 
B A [TotalFark]
2014-07-24 06:55:00 PM  
The only thing scary here is that idiots think the government should be armed more heavily than we're allowed to be. Have you idiots not read history? Are you really so stupid you believe the things done to others can't be done to you? Are you stupid enough to think our politicians are any less likely to turn into dictators than the politicians of history? Hitler was an ELECTED OFFICIAL before he was a dictator.
 
2014-07-24 06:55:28 PM  

IlGreven: The current crop of Bundy types wouldn't be here if the US actually had an oppressive military.


I agree wholeheartedly with this, but I was making an argument from the perspective of convincing people who feel those small militia bands with semi-automatic rifles are potential freedom fighters when the doomsday oppression scenario comes about. There are honest problems to have with the current government, privacy violations being foremost in my mind, and those do not get solved by having jet fighters.
 
2014-07-24 07:00:36 PM  
I just want a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
 
2014-07-24 07:01:32 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: I want a TOW missile


For.. reasons..


Man, I loved that thing in Warhawk
 
2014-07-24 07:12:07 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: astro716: ecmoRandomNumbers: . If shiat ever hits the fan, it frightens me that the only people with the power to defend themselves would be the police, rednecks, and thugs.

You see, I just refuse to believe that our society is so fragile that the shiat would ever hit the fan. Living with that kind of fear sounds horrible.

I'd like to believe that. The problem is that we have a comprehensive knowledge of what happens when people become complacent. I'd point to bread and circuses, etc. etc... but even that's not necessary.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.

I would suggest that the first step to addressing that problem is to de-militarize the police, and not to militarize the public.

You and I both know that will never happen.


Why not? Wouldn't it make sense to at least try to make that our goal before we throw up our hands and start a literal arms race between the public and the police? I'd like to think that we can do better than to see how long it takes before claymores and RPGs hit the streets.
 
2014-07-24 07:14:58 PM  

B A: The only thing scary here is that idiots think the government should be armed more heavily than we're allowed to be. Have you idiots not read history? Are you really so stupid you believe the things done to others can't be done to you? Are you stupid enough to think our politicians are any less likely to turn into dictators than the politicians of history? Hitler was an ELECTED OFFICIAL before he was a dictator.


Yeah, so was Ghandi. Well, the elected part anyway. And thousands and thousands of others who've been elected to one thing or another around the world and didn't turn into dictators. Shocking to imagine, isn't it?

But, hey -- if you've got the money, the sky's not even the limit. What could possibly go wrong with a bunch of highest-bidder armed-to-the-teeth militias on the loose?
 
2014-07-24 07:20:13 PM  

B A: The only thing scary here is that idiots think the government should be armed more heavily than we're allowed to be. Have you idiots not read history? Are you really so stupid you believe the things done to others can't be done to you? Are you stupid enough to think our politicians are any less likely to turn into dictators than the politicians of history? Hitler was an ELECTED OFFICIAL before he was a dictator.


Hiter didn't get elected to shiat. The government appointed him Chancellor. He lost the only election he was ever in. Shortly after he was appointed the Reichstag magically burned down and he started on the road we are all so familiar with.
 
Rat [TotalFark]
2014-07-24 07:22:16 PM  
Awesome.  I can finally get a surpressed M240!  How long do I have to live in GA to be eligible?  I could probably handle 2-3 weeks.  Tops.

img.fark.net

™ I'll be real careful
 
2014-07-24 07:22:30 PM  

redmid17: Marcus Aurelius: ecmoRandomNumbers: I guess I'm an asshole for agreeing with this guy. The police are not to be trusted. Ever. Why would anybody want them to be armed like the military and citizens be without anything but sticks and rocks to counter? As long as we keep treating our "heroes" in blue like gods, they're going to abuse their power.

Either do a top-down re-tooling of how we keep police power in check (fat chance), or let citizens arm themselves.

I'm armed to the teeth, for all the good it will do me.  I don't see how an RPG is going to even out the odds.  What I really need is my own company of highly trained light infantry, with maybe a couple helicopters in support.

You can get any of those if you have enough money and don't mind waiting a while. The helicopters are going to be expensive as shiat though, but probably not as expensive as hiring your own private mercenary force.


It won't be a problem for him ... I've seen the money with his face on it. Plus, he can call up legions if he needs them.
 
2014-07-24 07:26:32 PM  
Thank you for your progress report on Project Whiskey Tango Sherman block II.
A show of hands: Who is in favor of using repeated measures, counterbalancing by using sea to Atlanta for crossover, with application of treatment gamma?
 
2014-07-24 07:31:59 PM  
Putin would probably be happy to give free Buks to various nutjob groups in USA, and just watch as your country dissolves.
 
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