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(Politico)   I must be getting old, my left leg works better than the right one. I keep making left turns and I don't know why   (politico.com) divider line 19
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2020 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jul 2014 at 3:48 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-24 03:59:30 PM  
6 votes:

Gulper Eel: The left and right went authoritarian.


Seriously, what is it about the need to make "both sides" judgments in lieu of attacking the real problem--social conservatism?

No, "the left" did not go "authoritarian." "The left" have little if any power in this country.

Dishonesty is a key component with this fallacy. It deflects any criticism of the ideology you embrace and points fingers and lays blame to people who aren't part of the problem.
2014-07-24 02:35:18 PM  
4 votes:

quatchi: You didn't move left.

The country lurched right and where you were standing is now left.


I wouldn't even say that the country moved as much as the voice of the country moved. It really isn't a big crowd over on what used to be the extreme right. They just got really loud.
2014-07-24 09:54:38 AM  
4 votes:
But... if your left leg worked "better" than the right one, you'd be making right turns.
2014-07-24 09:35:41 AM  
3 votes:
You didn't move left.

The country lurched right and where you were standing is now left.

As has been noted every couple of minutes or so on Fark for the last few years the right moving right after Clinton moved to the center in the 90 shifted the Overton window to such a degree that positions were once held by mainstream Republicans are now held by Dems. The onslaught of the Tea Partiers in 2010 moved the GOP even further right a trend that continues to this day.

That all noted, what specific reasons would a former WSJ reporter and writer of books about the military have for identifying with the left?

*clicks link*

The Iraq war fiasco? The torture scandal? The use of lawless mercenaries? Intelligence officials run amok? Growing income equality?

Yeah, those are some pretty good reasons.
2014-07-24 04:21:00 PM  
2 votes:
Let's not sit here and pretend the democratic party is a leftist party.  More left than republicans, sure, but by no means a leftist party.
2014-07-24 04:01:39 PM  
2 votes:

skyotter: the fact that these are seen as Right-vs-Left issues depresses me profoundly.

they're Right-Wrong issues, as in "torture is wrong.  full stop."


Well, blame the right for that.  Whenever you're against something they support, they see you as being on the left and therefore "wrong".

Granted, some of the left do that as well; hell, I've done it on occasion and had to check myself realizing that the person opposing the viewpoint I support wasn't someone on the right, but on the left as well.
2014-07-25 03:59:30 PM  
1 votes:

Jon Snow: If one side is demonstrably worse than the other, then it's silly to play the BSABSVR card


Not when the choice is between "worse than the status quo" and "much worse than the status quo" - in a case like that, the much-worse side is useful if only to bring both breeds of foolishness to a halt. Yay for checks and balances. It's not putting the worse group in power, it's a first-do-no-harm principle.

whidbey: Still waiting for evidence of "the left" going authoritarian.


Do the letters NSA still mean "No Such Agency" to you or something?

We can disagree on the degree to which Obama has expanded on Bush's executive overreach and by which congressional Republicans have overdone it with the melodrama on the subject - but your blanket denial  that any such overreach has happened  does not comport with the facts. It doesn't even line up with Obama's own pre-election rhetoric.

It's not difficult to grasp.

The delays nonetheless set a troubling precedent. They are unlikely to be challenged in court - no one has standing to sue over the employer-mandate delays, and no insurer has thought it worthwhile to challenge the "like it, keep it" fix. But a future administration that is less sympathetic to the ACA could invoke the delays as precedent for declining to enforce other provisions that it dislikes, including provisions that are essential to the proper functioning of the law. The delays could therefore undermine the very statute they were meant to protect - and perhaps imperil the ACA's effort to extend coverage to tens of millions of people.

More generally, the Obama administration's claim of enforcement discretion, if accepted, would limit Congress's ability to specify when and under what circumstances its laws should take effect. That circumscription of legislative authority would mark a major shift of constitutional power away from Congress, which makes the laws, and toward the President, who is supposed to enforce them.
2014-07-25 03:19:33 PM  
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: I didn't move left or right. The left and right went authoritarian.

It doesn't help that I live in New York where choosing between left and right is like choosing between Mos Eisley and Detroit.


Still waiting for evidence of "the left" going authoritarian.
2014-07-24 05:00:41 PM  
1 votes:

Pubby: somedude210: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I wasn't a liberal until the Fark Independents™ convinced me I was one

I wasn't a liberal until the Fark Independents convinced me to take a look at their policy suggestions :D

I was a Fark Independent ™ until I actually looked objectively at the policy suggestions I was parroting and realized I was being an arsehat.

/staunchly liberal now
//staunchly


I underwent adolescence and reached adulthood under Bush.  Prior to that, I would say I was conservative, inasmuch as a young teenager can have a political opinion.  But even as a teenager and young adult, I could understand all the harm Bush was doing to my country.  I started to reexamine what I thought I believed, and decided the more scientific party would be the best one to support, which is not to say I like them so much as I dislike them less than the alternative.  Now that the Tea Party is apparently a thing, I can't help but sigh and punch the D column, regardless of who's running.  Hopefully in the next decade or so I'll need to carefully consider candidates and their stances, but right now my choices are bad, and HA HA HA OH WOW.
2014-07-24 04:58:05 PM  
1 votes:

whidbey: It's just so stupid. It took about 5-10 minutes to grasp the concept of collectivism, and why an altruistic mindset is the best. I can understand why someone entrenched in the 1% might reject either concept, but what about the rest of the 99%? I really don't get why people fight against their own interests.


Lack of understanding.

It's an animal instinct to fear that which is not understood. Whether it's by a genetic gift of intelligence or simply living in the right conditions, some of us have been able to overcome those fears, or at least minimize those fears by attempting to understand as much of the world as possible. But to many Americans, "the unknown" really is a hole with no bottom. Through any combination of living in the wrong conditions or being born without any sense of curiosity, many live with constant fear, anxiety, or anger toward something that they don't understand.

And through generations of wielding power over others, some people have developed the ability to exploit those feelings in order to achieve their own ends.
2014-07-24 04:46:02 PM  
1 votes:
It's just so stupid. It took about 5-10 minutes to grasp the concept of collectivism, and why an altruistic mindset is the best. I can understand why someone entrenched in the 1% might reject either concept, but what about the rest of the 99%? I really don't get why people fight against their own interests.
2014-07-24 04:42:05 PM  
1 votes:
"I left the Beltway Bubble and got some actual perspective on the things I'd been willfully ignorant about for the last 20 years."

Amazing what a little oxygen can do for the brain.
2014-07-24 04:26:00 PM  
1 votes:

whidbey: No, "the left" did not go "authoritarian." "The left" have little if any power in this country.


While the whole "both parties are the same" and "we only really have one party" talk is BS, there is a little validity to what he said in that many of Democrats at the top of the food chain are authoritarians and/or are more than happy to sell out the interests of the people in favor of corporate interests.

On average Democrats are demonstrably better for this country, but it doesn't help to pretend that we don't have any house cleaning to do.
2014-07-24 04:24:41 PM  
1 votes:

quatchi: That all noted, what specific reasons would a former WSJ reporter and writer of books about the military have for identifying with the left?

*clicks link*

The Iraq war fiasco? The torture scandal? The use of lawless mercenaries? Intelligence officials run amok? Growing income equality?

Yeah, those are some pretty good reasons.



Rupert Murdoch buying out the WSJ and turning it into Fox News for the rich?  Also a good reason.
2014-07-24 04:22:29 PM  
1 votes:

FarkedOver: Let's not sit here and pretend the democratic party is a leftist party.  More left than republicans, sure, but by no means a leftist party.


Well no, not like it was in the late 70s/early 80s.  It's more moderate than left.
2014-07-24 04:18:24 PM  
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: My grandparents were upset that Social Security and Medicare were now being considered 'entitlements'. They would defend the programs all while denouncing Obama and the liberal media and the evil liberals in Congress. With a straight face.


But that's what entitlements always have been.  You've paid into them and you're entitled to the benefit...*scratchy head*  I've never understood why people consider 'entitlements' a bad thing.
2014-07-24 04:03:44 PM  
1 votes:
<<<<In my late 50s, at a time of life when most people are supposed to be drifting into a cautious conservatism >>>>>

Urban Legend. People actually become more liberal as they age.
http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/voter-conservative-aging- li beral-120119.htm
2014-07-24 03:59:45 PM  
1 votes:
Uh huh. That's what happened. Last I checked, if you don't whip out your John Birch Society membership card as soon as somebody yells, "SEGGERGAYSHUN NAH-OWWWW SEGGERGAYSHUN FOH-EVUH!!!!', you're "THE LEFT."
2014-07-24 03:59:17 PM  
1 votes:
the fact that these are seen as Right-vs-Left issues depresses me profoundly.

they're Right-Wrong issues, as in "torture is wrong.  full stop."
 
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