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(Jalopnik)   The government finally cracks down on stanced and hellaflush cars. Fark: The Quebec government   (jalopnik.com) divider line 93
    More: Interesting, Qui, Quebec, Quebec government  
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3565 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Jul 2014 at 10:41 AM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-24 10:23:38 AM  
BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

imageshack.com
 
2014-07-24 10:40:42 AM  
Better solution: cops pull over retards in those cars, sugar the gas tank.

Boom, problem solved.
 
2014-07-24 10:45:37 AM  
Premier of Quebec:

www.cobjectively.com
 
2014-07-24 10:51:38 AM  
<grumpycat.jpg>
 
2014-07-24 10:52:38 AM  

Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

[imageshack.com image 800x533]


WTF?!?!?
 
2014-07-24 10:52:55 AM  
As an engineer I loathe the idea of modifying a vehicle in any way that reduces its driving performance, but especially for cosmetic reasons. But even more, I dislike the idea of the government stepping in to ban something as silly as this, unless it is truly a menace on four wheels, endangering pedestrians and other drivers.
 
2014-07-24 10:55:08 AM  

meat0918: Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

[imageshack.com image 800x533]

WTF?!?!?


Welcome to hellaflush
 
2014-07-24 10:55:28 AM  
Now they're saying a vehicle has to be roadworthy? Fascists.
 
2014-07-24 11:00:33 AM  
cgraves67:
But even more, I dislike the idea of the government stepping in to ban something as silly as this, unless it is truly a menace on four wheels, endangering pedestrians and other drivers.

They pretty much are menaces on four wheels. Screwing up the camber that much makes them hard to drive, and they handle very unpredictably in emergencies (or in wet weather, for that matter). You also get into the "scraping up parts of the road" issue.

There are a couple of these sorts of cars in my area, and neither of them can stay in a straight line at anything over five miles an hour.
 
2014-07-24 11:00:42 AM  
Installing tires too narrow for the wheels (tire stretching).

I was wondering where they found tires that looked like that. Now I wonder why they think that's a good idea on their expensive wheels.
 
2014-07-24 11:02:32 AM  
Hm.  I guess people still say "hella".
 
2014-07-24 11:02:55 AM  
It would seem that speed bumps usually solve this issue.
 
2014-07-24 11:05:40 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: meat0918: Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

[imageshack.com image 800x533]

WTF?!?!?

Welcome to hellaflush


No, that would be "bippu" or VIP style, a Japanese trend.  That and bosozoku are kind of responsible for some of that slammed and negative camber look.  The sport of drifting also contributed to negative camber and tires being stretched to fit rims.
 
kab
2014-07-24 11:05:56 AM  
Oh, good.  A nice grey area law to collect fines with.   The only surprise here is that a US state didn't think of it first.

"doesn't look stock to me!" *ticket*
 
2014-07-24 11:09:50 AM  

WelldeadLink: Installing tires too narrow for the wheels (tire stretching).

I was wondering where they found tires that looked like that. Now I wonder why they think that's a good idea on their expensive wheels.


The original reason for doing that was for drifting because it greatly reduces tire flex.

Now it's done for looks.
 
2014-07-24 11:10:18 AM  
I remember, we had that in Dallas back in the 90s. I left for a few years and came back to find everything under construction, and what wasn't being constructed wasn't being maintained, so no one opts for lowering the suspension. 60 mph on a stretch of road like a creek bed isn't going to work.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-24 11:10:37 AM  
Altering suspension height has been illegal where I live for a long time. Tires and spinners can be altered at will.
 
2014-07-24 11:11:45 AM  

WelldeadLink: Installing tires too narrow for the wheels (tire stretching).

I was wondering where they found tires that looked like that. Now I wonder why they think that's a good idea on their expensive wheels.


People who do this are also likely to have neck tattoos. Does that answer your question?
 
2014-07-24 11:12:18 AM  
SUPER CALI SWAGALISTIC HELLA SEXY DOPENESS yo

/love outrunning ricers in a 20+ year old chevy van
 
F42
2014-07-24 11:12:24 AM  
 
2014-07-24 11:12:51 AM  
quebec should have been nuked long ago. Plus, everyone hates the french.

/allez vous baisent
 
2014-07-24 11:13:15 AM  
Most of these "stance" cars I have seen are pretty retarded, and I've seen some cars with crazy cosmetic mods.
 
2014-07-24 11:13:22 AM  
I need to look at their laws, I will be going to Quebec next weekend to a cottage and my jeep is the entire opposite, If anything they could get me for inadequate flare coverage
 
2014-07-24 11:16:05 AM  

groppet: It would seem that speed bumps potholes usually solve this issue.


ZAZ: Altering suspension height has been illegal where I live for a long time. Tires and spinners can be altered at will.


How can you have low-profiles tires without a lowered suspension?  Who would do that?
 
2014-07-24 11:23:03 AM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-07-24 11:25:39 AM  

Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

[imageshack.com image 800x533]


Where we're going we don't need...tire contact with the road.

www.thedigitalinkwell.com
 
2014-07-24 11:26:05 AM  

airsupport: Hm.  I guess people still say "hella".


Those people are hella stupid, they are hella lame
 
2014-07-24 11:26:55 AM  

cgraves67: As an engineer I loathe the idea of modifying a vehicle in any way that reduces its driving performance, but especially for cosmetic reasons. But even more, I dislike the idea of the government stepping in to ban something as silly as this, unless it is truly a menace on four wheels, endangering pedestrians and other drivers.


It annoys me that people seem to think they know better than the real engineers.  The engineers at OEMs know what the fark they're doing.  If your car would be better or safer or higher performing with the ridiculous modifications these people installed, they'd be stock (or at least available as options).  Same goes for visual design.  Your fake spoiler/diffuser just doesn't look good, I'm sorry.

Some modded cars DO look good (those are mostly professional jobs though), but the vast majority of them are just visually tacky and mechanically worse, and the result of 17 yo idiots getting enough tips from the pizza delivery route to afford that $50 spoiler.
 
2014-07-24 11:29:39 AM  

groppet: It would seem that speed bumps usually solve this issue.


Wouldn't even need speed bumps. Quebec has some of the shiattiest roads I have ever driven on. Even if someone did modify their car like that I am not sure how it would be very drivable in Quebec, even without the ban.
 
2014-07-24 11:39:58 AM  
Frost Heaves will Darwinize them come spring.
 
2014-07-24 11:41:27 AM  
Mantour:
How can you have low-profiles tires without a lowered suspension? Who would do that?

You haven't seen the "Hot Wheels" cars? The ones with larger-than-normal wheels and super-low-profile tires? They have to raise the suspension because the wheels won't fit in the wheel well at all.

There are SUVs out there with 36" rims and tires that look like a layer of paint.

Heck, some people are going up to 40" and beyond. The result is pretty comical. Dangerous, too - I've seen more than a few with broken wheels (as in shattered) sitting by the side of the road. For a while, I'd see one or two a month on the highway.
 
2014-07-24 11:44:19 AM  

mechgreg: groppet: It would seem that speed bumps usually solve this issue.

Wouldn't even need speed bumps. Quebec has some of the shiattiest roads I have ever driven on. Even if someone did modify their car like that I am not sure how it would be very drivable in Quebec, even without the ban.


Which is exactly where such bans are the easiest to get through - the politicians win with the old "kids these days" crowd that vote a lot that can be outrage by every marginal trend from every aspect of youth culture the entire world over (yay globalization of yellow journalism), without annoying any significant amount of people that actually were going to do it.
 
2014-07-24 11:44:46 AM  

Glitchwerks: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: meat0918: Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

[imageshack.com image 800x533]

WTF?!?!?

Welcome to hellaflush

No, that would be "bippu" or VIP style, a Japanese trend.  That and bosozoku are kind of responsible for some of that slammed and negative camber look.  The sport of drifting also contributed to negative camber and tires being stretched to fit rims.


Actually here in the states this look and style is called "Stance". Hellaflush is just very much lowered and "flush" to the ground. Stanced cars are lowered as much as possible, the camber is as far out as they can get it to put the wheels at an angle, and they typically have highly stretched tires.

It does bad, bad things to cars.
 
2014-07-24 11:46:19 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: It annoys me that people seem to think they know better than the real engineers. The engineers at OEMs know what the fark they're doing.


And they design cars for 90-95% of people (if that) and 90-95% of usage.

I know a crash sensor specialist at one of the Big 3, and he told me that car safety systems were not designed to handle someone my height (6'4) - if the airbag deploys, it'll hit me more in the chest/neck, rather than cushioning my head. Shorter people (under 5'3 or so) will get their heads knocked backward by the airbag hitting them in the forehead.

So if you're in one of those edge cases, mod your car (though I don't think you're allowed to mod the safety systems without inspection, or even at all) appropriately.

// these are not edge cases
// well, shiatty roads and heavy snow ARE edge cases, but require a different fix than hellaflushing (which is a stupid word - "I had Chipotle for dinner last night, I'm expecting a hellaflush sometime soon"
 
2014-07-24 11:46:39 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: It annoys me that people seem to think they know better than the real engineers.  The engineers at OEMs know what the fark they're doing.  If your car would be better or safer or higher performing with the ridiculous modifications these people installed, they'd be stock (or at least available as options).  Same goes for visual design.  Your fake spoiler/diffuser just doesn't look good, I'm sorry.


Well...that's all a bunch of generalization.

There are plenty of performance mods that can be done to cars and bikes that greatly exceed what the OEM designed that aren't stock or options.  This can be for any reason from cost-to-market to simply practicality on something that's supposed to appeal to the widest customer base.  Same with looks, if not more so - because there is a lot that can be done by competent people that simply wouldn't occur to other designers or cost too much.  Plus, that part is in the eye of the beholder.


Is  any of that true of these cars though?  No.  Not at all.  They're all shiat.
 
2014-07-24 11:49:40 AM  

TotesCrayCray: Glitchwerks: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: meat0918: Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!

[imageshack.com image 800x533]

WTF?!?!?

Welcome to hellaflush

No, that would be "bippu" or VIP style, a Japanese trend.  That and bosozoku are kind of responsible for some of that slammed and negative camber look.  The sport of drifting also contributed to negative camber and tires being stretched to fit rims.

Actually here in the states this look and style is called "Stance". Hellaflush is just very much lowered and "flush" to the ground. Stanced cars are lowered as much as possible, the camber is as far out as they can get it to put the wheels at an angle, and they typically have highly stretched tires.

It does bad, bad things to cars.


I've always seen stance and hellaflush being used interchangeably, but I'm not kind of idiot who do that to their car, so.
 
2014-07-24 11:51:10 AM  

cirby: You haven't seen the "Hot Wheels" cars? The ones with larger-than-normal wheels and super-low-profile tires? They have to raise the suspension because the wheels won't fit in the wheel well at all.


Those are hilarious. There's a few I've seen around here- regular sedans that have higher ride heights than my 4x4 pickup. And one bump in the road means those microscopic section height tires are going to blow, if not shatter the rim.
 
2014-07-24 11:54:32 AM  
"Oh how can I, forget you girl, when there is always something there to remind me."

:(

Breaking up is hard to do.  Okay, it's just a car, and it's not actually modified in any way, but this still makes me sad for my poor little Nissan 200SX.  Fired it up yesterday, but now it's got a crack in the windshield and it's fate as scrap metal is pretty much assured when I trade it in.
 
2014-07-24 11:56:10 AM  

Glitchwerks


No, that would be "bippu" or VIP style, a Japanese trend. That and bosozoku are kind of responsible for some of that slammed and negative camber look. The sport of drifting also contributed to negative camber and tires being stretched to fit rims.


Tires were stretched on rims back in the lowrider days, long before drifting became a thing.
 
2014-07-24 11:56:26 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: It annoys me that people seem to think they know better than the real engineers. The engineers at OEMs know what the fark they're doing. If your car would be better or safer or higher performing with the ridiculous modifications these people installed, they'd be stock (or at least available as options).


Not really. Auto manufacturers do not maximize the performance of their vehicles when they make them. They usually de-tune them for reliability. Most stock vehicles can make noticeable horsepower gains simply by installing a K&N or AirRaid re-usable air filter, and a larger diameter exhaust.

As for lowering vehicles, it can really improve handling, if it's done properly. But you gotta properly align the wheels (4-wheel alignment is usually under $100).

With that said, if you want more performance from your car, and you know how to do it, why not?
 
2014-07-24 11:57:13 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: cgraves67: As an engineer I loathe the idea of modifying a vehicle in any way that reduces its driving performance, but especially for cosmetic reasons. But even more, I dislike the idea of the government stepping in to ban something as silly as this, unless it is truly a menace on four wheels, endangering pedestrians and other drivers.

It annoys me that people seem to think they know better than the real engineers.  The engineers at OEMs know what the fark they're doing.  If your car would be better or safer or higher performing with the ridiculous modifications these people installed, they'd be stock (or at least available as options).  Same goes for visual design.  Your fake spoiler/diffuser just doesn't look good, I'm sorry.

Some modded cars DO look good (those are mostly professional jobs though), but the vast majority of them are just visually tacky and mechanically worse, and the result of 17 yo idiots getting enough tips from the pizza delivery route to afford that $50 spoiler.


Sometimes a vehicle can be improved with after-market modifications that the original engineers did not implement due to to reasons like cost. However, making such changes should be done very carefully. Increasing an engine's power, or modifying the architecture of the suspension can cause significantly increased wear and stress on standard components connected to them, possibly resulting in catastrophic failure later.

For example, the factory-installed drive shaft may be designed to withstand X billion rotations when attached to the factory-installed engine.  That's the expected lifespan of the drive shaft. If it is designed correctly, that's more than the expected lifespan of the whole vehicle. However, if the engine is tuned up by 10%, it may drop the expected life of the drive shaft by 50%. Suddenly the drive shaft is more likely to fail during the vehicle's expected lifespan, potentially causing a sever accident.

Expected lifespans of components are very important to commercial and military aircraft. It's not nice when a wing spar fails midflight. So, it's quite common for them to continually monitor the condition of aircraft parts and replace them just as they begin to approach the expected lifespan or when they develop microscopic flaws due to stress. Many newer military aircraft are filled with sensors that monitor the load on components in real time to keep track of their lifespans. A high-G turn could reduce the lifespan of a aileron by a few days. Hitting massive potholes at high speed will have the same effect on your suspension components.

TL:DR When you drive cautiously and don't modify your vehicle, you reduce your long term maintenance costs.
 
2014-07-24 12:00:21 PM  
Feeling disrespected....
images.buyautotruckaccessories.com
 
2014-07-24 12:02:15 PM  

cirby: Mantour:
How can you have low-profiles tires without a lowered suspension? Who would do that?

You haven't seen the "Hot Wheels" cars? The ones with larger-than-normal wheels and super-low-profile tires? They have to raise the suspension because the wheels won't fit in the wheel well at all.

There are SUVs out there with 36" rims and tires that look like a layer of paint.

Heck, some people are going up to 40" and beyond. The result is pretty comical. Dangerous, too - I've seen more than a few with broken wheels (as in shattered) sitting by the side of the road. For a while, I'd see one or two a month on the highway.



No, I live in hick country so I see Coal Rollers and lift kits, not ricers.

What I meant was why would a mechanic put low profiles on a car that does not have a lowered suspension:  That's the whole point of low profiles. Putting low profiles on a regular suspension is  just dangerous. I am sure in case of a collision, the insurance adjuster would be salivating over such modifications.
 
2014-07-24 12:05:56 PM  

Lsherm: BUT IT HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER IN THE SNOW!


Why would you name your hellaflush stance car "C SECTION"? Are Caesarians now considered baller?
 
2014-07-24 12:09:13 PM  
Well as much as I hate seeing someone regulate things based on looks (like assault weapons), there truly are some practices that make a car more dangerous.

Tire stretching increases the likely hood you will break a bead on a corner and have a blow out.

Screwing with the camber definitely reduces a cars handling  and braking by unevenly distributing the weight over the contact patch of the tire.

Excessive offset places more stress on the wheel lugs and can cause them to snap sending a wheel flying down the road and a car only god knows where.

Lowering if done right by replacing suspension components with ones designed for the job can improve braking and handling. But 99% of the time morons just cut the springs which has the opposite effect.
 
2014-07-24 12:10:14 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: HMS_Blinkin: It annoys me that people seem to think they know better than the real engineers. The engineers at OEMs know what the fark they're doing. If your car would be better or safer or higher performing with the ridiculous modifications these people installed, they'd be stock (or at least available as options).

Not really. Auto manufacturers do not maximize the performance of their vehicles when they make them. They usually de-tune them for reliability. Most stock vehicles can make noticeable horsepower gains simply by installing a K&N or AirRaid re-usable air filter, and a larger diameter exhaust.

As for lowering vehicles, it can really improve handling, if it's done properly. But you gotta properly align the wheels (4-wheel alignment is usually under $100).

With that said, if you want more performance from your car, and you know how to do it, why not?


You ask the question you already answered.

You don't really get "noticeable" HP gains from just tossing on an air filter. I looked into a CAI for my vehicle, but ended up skipping it; a few hundred bucks for something that gives about a 2% HP gain at the rev peak just isn't worthwhile- especially since the torque curve isn't expanded across the entire range. A cat-back exhaust will help at higher RPM, but loss of back pressure won't help lower RPM torque. And hell, I could do more drastic things, but honestly, nothing would be worth just getting one with the bigger engine from the get go.

And if you get into anything more aggressive than that, there goes that warranty, all while you lose reliability.

Generally, modding your vehicle for better performance can indeed get you that- but why not just buy a better car to begin with? When you're 16 and all you have is a hand me down Camry that's one thing. If you're an adult with resources, there's no point in putting $5000 into a $25000 car to make it perform like a $30,000 car. Just buy the better performing car (or the optional engine) and be done with it. And hell, when your pedestrian automobile can already put in a 7 second 0-60 time (and there's plenty of fairly normal cars that will be quicker), that's about as fast as you're going to use. It ain't the NHRA out there when traffic is bumper to bumper because some jackass in his lowered Civic with the fart pipe ran out of skill and stuffed it. At that point, the ventilated seats and sat radio will mean more to you than a cold air intake and an exhaust that makes more noise than power.
 
2014-07-24 12:12:39 PM  

Mantour


What I meant was why would a mechanic put low profiles on a car that does not have a lowered suspension: That's the whole point of low profiles. Putting low profiles on a regular suspension is just dangerous. I am sure in case of a collision, the insurance adjuster would be salivating over such modifications.


lower sidewall = less sidewall flex during cornering

And a mechanic can take (for example) 16-inch wheels and high-profile tires and replace them with 18-inch wheels and low-profile tires without changing ride height.
 
2014-07-24 12:13:51 PM  

Mantour:  I am sure in case of a collision, the insurance adjuster would be salivating over such modifications.


Also worth noting that in Quebec, when it comes to auto insurance, at least for any kind of bodily injury the provincial government is the insurance provider.
 
2014-07-24 12:14:02 PM  

big pig peaches: WelldeadLink: Installing tires too narrow for the wheels (tire stretching).

I was wondering where they found tires that looked like that. Now I wonder why they think that's a good idea on their expensive wheels.

People who do this are also likely to have neck tattoos. Does that answer your question?


Mexicans? Ex-cons? Mexican Ex-cons?
 
2014-07-24 12:14:33 PM  

Mantour: cirby: Mantour:
How can you have low-profiles tires without a lowered suspension? Who would do that?

You haven't seen the "Hot Wheels" cars? The ones with larger-than-normal wheels and super-low-profile tires? They have to raise the suspension because the wheels won't fit in the wheel well at all.

There are SUVs out there with 36" rims and tires that look like a layer of paint.

Heck, some people are going up to 40" and beyond. The result is pretty comical. Dangerous, too - I've seen more than a few with broken wheels (as in shattered) sitting by the side of the road. For a while, I'd see one or two a month on the highway.


No, I live in hick country so I see Coal Rollers and lift kits, not ricers.

What I meant was why would a mechanic put low profiles on a car that does not have a lowered suspension:  That's the whole point of low profiles. Putting low profiles on a regular suspension is  just dangerous. I am sure in case of a collision, the insurance adjuster would be salivating over such modifications.


As long as the overall tire height doesn't change, there's no need for lowering the car. The ride will get bumpier because the low profile tires have less flexibility, but that's about it.  No more or less dangerous.
 
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