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(The New York Times)   This is an original headline that has not been plagiarized at all - Sen John Walsh (D-MT)   (nytimes.com) divider line 63
    More: Dumbass, National Endowment for the Humanities, "Beginnings"  
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1645 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jul 2014 at 8:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-23 05:05:43 PM  
If I were Senator Paul, I'd be angry at Walsh copying like that.
 
2014-07-23 05:08:33 PM  
Biden plagiarized everything and he is now vice president.
 
2014-07-23 05:10:34 PM  
Well that's it, I'm not voting for him again.
 
2014-07-23 05:17:30 PM  

The AWC handbook is explicit:past grads who've been caught cheating after graduation have names scraped off school's bronze plaques

- Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) July 23, 2014
 
2014-07-23 05:18:40 PM  
He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.
 
2014-07-23 05:19:40 PM  

BalugaJoe: Biden plagiarized everything and he is now vice president.


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2009/05/12/jack-kemp-and-media-double-st a ndards/150083
 
2014-07-23 05:21:59 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


Yeah I was sort of wondering about that. I mean I loathe plagiarism, but I'm not sure that's really what happened here.
 
2014-07-23 05:33:09 PM  

ginandbacon: mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.

Yeah I was sort of wondering about that. I mean I loathe plagiarism, but I'm not sure that's really what happened here.


Note that there are two colors: Yellow, which is quoting with attribution, but not quotation marks (what they call "inappropriate attribution") and pink, which is no attribution whatsoever. He copies his entire conclusions from other people, yet doesn't hint that the conclusions aren't his own.

He'd flunk any high school or college course, and probably would be investigated for violating the schools honor code.
 
2014-07-23 05:36:52 PM  
Put him on commission.
 
2014-07-23 05:38:48 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


Ibid.
 
2014-07-23 05:48:07 PM  
Well, RAND PAUL can't have *all* the fun....
 
2014-07-23 05:51:50 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: The AWC handbook is explicit:past grads who've been caught cheating after graduation have names scraped off school's bronze plaques- Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) July 23, 2014


Some people will be scraping him off of their shoes.
 
2014-07-23 06:04:24 PM  

lindalouwho: Dusk-You-n-Me: The AWC handbook is explicit:past grads who've been caught cheating after graduation have names scraped off school's bronze plaques- Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) July 23, 2014

Some people will be scraping him off of their shoes.


What does this even MEAN.
 
2014-07-23 06:09:58 PM  

lindalouwho: Some people will be scraping him off of their shoes.


i.imgur.com

R.I.P. BUBBLE GUM
 
2014-07-23 06:14:28 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: lindalouwho: Dusk-You-n-Me: The AWC handbook is explicit:past grads who've been caught cheating after graduation have names scraped off school's bronze plaques- Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) July 23, 2014

Some people will be scraping him off of their shoes.

What does this even MEAN.


That he's shiat.

/Somacandra, funny!
 
2014-07-23 06:21:54 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: BalugaJoe: Biden plagiarized everything and he is now vice president.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2009/05/12/jack-kemp-and-media-double-st a ndards/150083


Oh yeah. Its amazing how a single gaffe in a speech that he had originally given proper credit became a staple of Republican criticism, but not Kemp's or others. Walsh's incident appears to have been part of a final project for an academic paper needed for a graduate degree. And this is a far more extensive pattern of serious plagiarism. Any decent software detection ('turn it in,' etc..) that tracks online sources would have flagged this big time.
 
2014-07-23 06:26:51 PM  

lindalouwho: That he's shiat.


You know, according to Steve Martin in France there is an extensive breakup ritual that involves saying "I break with thee" 3 times and then throwing dog shiat on her shoes. They you go to the discoteque and look for the women with the dog shiat on their shoes.
 
2014-07-23 06:27:32 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


Quizzicaldog.png

See every numbered example past the first one.
 
2014-07-23 06:29:38 PM  

Stoj: mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.

Quizzicaldog.png

See every numbered example past the first one.


And by that I mean they all contain a pink section.
 
2014-07-23 06:35:51 PM  

Somacandra: lindalouwho: That he's shiat.

You know, according to Steve Martin in France there is an extensive breakup ritual that involves saying "I break with thee" 3 times and then throwing dog shiat on her shoes. They you go to the discoteque and look for the women with the dog shiat on their shoes.


But if she doesn't bother to clean it off... ooooooh!
 
2014-07-23 06:43:24 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


Did you miss the pink sections where he copied a section of another paper word for word AND copied the footnotes? Just because he copied the footnotes as well doesn't make it legit.
 
2014-07-23 06:44:23 PM  

Stoj: Stoj: mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.

Quizzicaldog.png

See every numbered example past the first one.

And by that I mean they all contain a pink section.


No. I get the pink section stuff. But you'll notice every pink section is followed by a paragraph and a footnote. There is no pink section that stands on it's own separate from a yellow section with a footnote.

It looks (to me) like he did a shiatty, sloppy job in attributing. Like he didn't notice he grabbed one part from one place and finished with the other part.
 
2014-07-23 06:49:28 PM  

mediablitz: Stoj: Stoj: mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.

Quizzicaldog.png

See every numbered example past the first one.

And by that I mean they all contain a pink section.

No. I get the pink section stuff. But you'll notice every pink section is followed by a paragraph and a footnote. There is no pink section that stands on it's own separate from a yellow section with a footnote.

It looks (to me) like he did a shiatty, sloppy job in attributing. Like he didn't notice he grabbed one part from one place and finished with the other part.


:-\
 
2014-07-23 07:01:02 PM  
Can a person really use other people's conclusions/recommendations for their own thesis? Having never written one myself, I truly do not know.

EAR-regardless... That's some fine thesis writin', Lou.
 
2014-07-23 07:14:48 PM  
"Seems legit"- Rand Paul.
 
2014-07-23 07:19:48 PM  
mediablitz:.No. I get the pink section stuff. But you'll notice every pink section is followed by a paragraph and a footnote. There is no pink section that stands on it's own separate from a yellow section with a footnote.

According to the main Times article, he actually does include passages that are never attributed to anyone.
 
2014-07-23 08:14:41 PM  
scrapetv.com

"I'm sorry."
 
2014-07-23 08:15:05 PM  
What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?
 
2014-07-23 08:17:04 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?


Monkey butt.  They're worth exactly monkey butt.
 
2014-07-23 08:18:13 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?


Pre-internet, hard to do.
 
2014-07-23 08:19:13 PM  

2wolves: thismomentinblackhistory: What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?

Monkey butt.  They're worth exactly monkey butt.


No, millions of dollars over a lifetime.
 
2014-07-23 08:19:47 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


Yeah, that. Republicans love the troops and veterans until they turn out to be Democrats.
 
2014-07-23 08:21:49 PM  

KeatingFive: thismomentinblackhistory: What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?

Pre-internet, hard to do.


It's the War College, ie a ticket that needs to be punched on your way up the ladder.

In other words, it means squat in the real world
 
2014-07-23 08:23:33 PM  
Well, RAND PAUL can't have *all* the fun....
 
2014-07-23 08:23:38 PM  

KeatingFive: thismomentinblackhistory: What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?

Pre-internet, hard to do.


Where do you live that there was no Internet access in 2007?

I keed, I keed...

Even Pre-Internet, you'd the intellectual gatekeepers be familiar enough with with current research to know which ones to maybe double check. It seems important. I remember back at my University, dozens of Engineering students got busted plagiarizing theses -- to the point where they went so far as to revoke degrees from folks who had been out in the real world for years. It didn't degrade the program one bit.

It's funny. You get one shiatty mechanic, one hair on your plate, and you might never go back to a place again and tell everyone about it. People regularly get out of programs with degrees based on fraudulent work, yet the institution never bears any responsibility.
 
2014-07-23 08:49:12 PM  
Both of Montana's senators are Democrats?  Wow.
 
2014-07-23 08:54:18 PM  
Mystery: solved.
 
2014-07-23 09:03:36 PM  

theknuckler_33: Both of Montana's senators are Democrats?  Wow.


Montana has a long and bloody history as it relates to organized labor, and quite a few Quakers as well.
 
2014-07-23 09:07:42 PM  

Snarfangel: If I were Senator Paul, I'd be angry at Walsh copying like that.


www.addictinginfo.org
 
2014-07-23 09:18:15 PM  
The thread article is just the supporting data for the main NYT story:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/us/politics/montana-senator-j ohn-wal sh-plagiarized-thesis.html?rref=politics

It has all sorts of information including:

Later, the senator, in an interview with The Associated Press, contradicted the aide, saying he was being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder when he used the authors' work without credit, and that he would consider apologizing to the scholars for doing so. He said he was currently taking antidepressant medication.

After The New York Times published the article about Mr. Walsh's paper online Wednesday, the War College's provost, Lance Betros, a retired brigadier general, said in a telephone interview that the college would begin an investigation immediately.

Mr. Walsh's paper will be run through an online plagiarism detection program, the provost said, and if there is evidence of a violation, the college will convene an academic review board to determine whether Mr. Walsh committed plagiarism and, if so, whether it was intentional.



Walsh earned his War College degree when he was 46 - far from being a college student where writing papers was common. From what I've seen in plagiarism cases, a blatant example such as this leads to examination of all "written product" and usually it is not an "isolated incident".
 
2014-07-23 09:20:32 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


He used entire passages either without attribution at all or without quotes indicating verbatim material. Sounds bad, but the school now has it and will make the final determination.

He's got a rep as a centrist, so I wonder who decided to go after him, Republicans or his own party? Unless the NYT examines the academic papers of every high-level politician it encounters, I assume it's one or the other.

And now you know why some office holders have their academic records sealed.
 
2014-07-23 09:23:58 PM  

KeatingFive: thismomentinblackhistory: What are these degrees worth if the people who hand them out don't catch this shiat?

Pre-internet, hard to do.


2007 isn't exactly pre-internet in this particular case.
 
2014-07-23 09:34:21 PM  
Pete Seeger said that plagiarism is basic to all culture.  He admitted, though, that he stole that line from Woody Guthrie.
 
2014-07-23 09:38:01 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


Yeah, but at the same time, about 30% of that paper has NO attribution. I wouldn't give him a pass on that. Improper just means that he's too stupid to deserve that degree. 'No'attribution is a different story. If it was a little bit here and there, that would be different, too, but there is an entire freaking page at one point.

The page by page layout with the pink and yellow markups actually presents just how much is straight plagiarism really well.
 
2014-07-23 09:59:07 PM  

mediablitz: Stoj: Stoj: mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.

Quizzicaldog.png

See every numbered example past the first one.

And by that I mean they all contain a pink section.

No. I get the pink section stuff. But you'll notice every pink section is followed by a paragraph and a footnote. There is no pink section that stands on it's own separate from a yellow section with a footnote.

It looks (to me) like he did a shiatty, sloppy job in attributing. Like he didn't notice he grabbed one part from one place and finished with the other part.


Nonsense.  No student has ever "accidentally" copied sentence after sentence verbatim and thought it was OK because he included a half-assed attribution to something somewhere nearby.  This is straightforward cheating, and he knew what he was doing.  If not, he is far to stupid to qualify for a master's degree, anyway.
 
2014-07-23 10:06:42 PM  
So he'll resign and say "you won't have John Walsh to kick around anymore."
 
2014-07-23 10:07:22 PM  

mediablitz: He used footnotes and citations. He just didn't format them correctly. I'm having a hard time calling this plagiarizing when the story itself says he gave credit, just not in the correct format.


It's not a formatting problem. If you copy paragraph after paragraph, sentence after sentence into your paper, there's no possible formatting that would make that acceptable. You could throw quotes around it and attribute it properly to make it not plagiarism, but you'd still fail the assignment. You don't write papers by copy and pasting from a bunch of different sources and call it good. A paper has to be your own ideas, words and conclusions. Quotes can be used to reinforce that, but that's not at all what he did (even if you went back in time and inserted correct quotation and attribution).

He knew exactly what he was doing, it wasn't a case of forgetting to throw some quotation marks around a couple of things and getting nailed for it. I'm not sure how you could look at TFA for more than a brief glance and think that this is a formatting problem.

He copied an entire page for gods sake, what formatting would you add to that to make it acceptable?
 
2014-07-23 10:22:36 PM  

MFAWG: theknuckler_33: Both of Montana's senators are Democrats?  Wow.

Montana has a long and bloody history as it relates to organized labor, and quite a few Quakers as well.


I was born and raised in Montana, and have only met one Quaker in my life. That was in Pennsylvania.
 
2014-07-23 10:34:51 PM  
Your other Senator is from a Quaker family, although I think he actually lists 'Church of God', which is a historically pacifist church.

So I'll rephrase: Montana has a fairly large population of pacifist leaning Christians.
 
2014-07-23 10:50:24 PM  

Abner Doon: It's not a formatting problem. If you copy paragraph after paragraph, sentence after sentence into your paper, there's no possible formatting that would make that acceptable.


This. I'm actually one of these people who think the whole current fad about plagiarism is overblown. Really, there is a phobia in the academic world today that is out of control, where people feel the need to cite every damn sentence. It's crazy. However, there is a big difference between not citing a source and copying 1/3 of an entire thesis. Even I think that is beyond the pale.
 
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