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(Talking Points Memo)   National Review writer rails against Democrats' past support of Jim Crow, ignores National Review's past support of Jim Crow   (talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, National Review, Jim Crow, Democrats, John Fund, American Civil Rights Union, Sen. Robert Byrd, William F. Buckley Jr., magazines  
•       •       •

1374 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jul 2014 at 4:16 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-23 01:15:10 PM  
Also ignoring the fact that many of those Democrats that argued for Jim Crow became Republicans.

I mean, look at an electoral map prior to 1960 or so.  It almost looks reversed, a lot of red where there is now blue, and definitely vice-versa.
 
2014-07-23 01:15:52 PM  
John Fund couldn't be more of a scumbag if he actually started a fake charity purely to get donations to himself called the "John Fund."
 
2014-07-23 01:24:35 PM  
By the way, this is the argument that got RAND PAUL laughed out of Howard University.  "You should vote Republican because the Democrats passed the Jim Crow laws!"

Anyone who's had 4th grade American History should realize why this is a lame argument.
 
2014-07-23 01:24:40 PM  
50 years ago democrats did...
 
2014-07-23 01:28:14 PM  
I think people who supported Hitler were wrong.  There, I said it.
 
2014-07-23 02:10:18 PM  

jake_lex: Also ignoring the fact that many of those Democrats that argued for Jim Crow became Republicans.

I mean, look at an electoral map prior to 1960 or so.  It almost looks reversed, a lot of red where there is now blue, and definitely vice-versa.


This comes up a lot... is the whole "Nixon's Southern Strategy" bullet point in Civil-Rights-Era history somehow an invalid observation that I've just accepted because I lean left (meaning not hard-right)?  Strom Thurmond started off as a segregationist Democrat and flipped to the GOP without any change in his tune.  Contrast that with Robert Byrd: started off as a KKK Democrat and, while retaining his party allegiance ended up disavowing that past and working to foster civil rights in this country.

I never get any sort of meaningful response to this point, but I figured that the P-Tab is as fertile a ground as any.
 
2014-07-23 02:26:06 PM  

jake_lex: I mean, look at an electoral map prior to 1960 or so. It almost looks reversed, a lot of red where there is now blue, and definitely vice-versa.


Having looked at it as far back as the election 1928, they really haven't changed a whole lot. There's a great deal of ambiguity and no concrete pattern forming. Except one.

Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina do tend to group together as the only stronghold of resistance against the winner.  See: 1928, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964* 1968** 1996***

*the first election post-civil rights law
**they went 3rd party (Wallace)
***no Louisiana, went with Clinton

/also, Maine and Vermont did not like FDR at all, they are the only ones to vote against him in all 4 elections
 
2014-07-23 02:28:10 PM  

factoryconnection: This comes up a lot... is the whole "Nixon's Southern Strategy" bullet point in Civil-Rights-Era history somehow an invalid observation that I've just accepted because I lean left (meaning not hard-right)? Strom Thurmond started off as a segregationist Democrat and flipped to the GOP without any change in his tune. Contrast that with Robert Byrd: started off as a KKK Democrat and, while retaining his party allegiance ended up disavowing that past and working to foster civil rights in this country.

I never get any sort of meaningful response to this point, but I figured that the P-Tab is as fertile a ground as any.


Strom Thurmond's racism was 10 levels higher than Bryd's? Seriously, he ran for president as the "Dixiecrat" candidate
 
2014-07-23 02:40:48 PM  
LBJ betrayed the south by pushing the Civil Rights Act, and Reagan took them into the GOP with "states rights".

LBJ played the long game better than anyone.
 
2014-07-23 02:55:02 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: LBJ betrayed the south by pushing the Civil Rights Act, and Reagan took them into the GOP with "states rights".

LBJ played the long game better than anyone.


Actually it was Lady Bird who saved the day. LBJ almost lost everything.
 
2014-07-23 03:00:56 PM  

ginandbacon: Actually it was Lady Bird who saved the day.


I read that as "Larry Bird."

I need sleep.
 
2014-07-23 03:04:24 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: ginandbacon: Actually it was Lady Bird who saved the day.

I read that as "Larry Bird."

I need sleep.


Hahahaha!!! Well she had help from Kevin and Chief and DJ ;)

That Ainge guy was a brat though.
 
2014-07-23 03:04:35 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: ginandbacon: Actually it was Lady Bird who saved the day.

I read that as "Larry Bird."

I need sleep.


I did the same thing, don't worry.

LBJ was always amazed by his hookshot
 
2014-07-23 03:05:09 PM  
LBJ and Ladybird.

31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-23 03:08:58 PM  

factoryconnection: jake_lex: Also ignoring the fact that many of those Democrats that argued for Jim Crow became Republicans.

I mean, look at an electoral map prior to 1960 or so.  It almost looks reversed, a lot of red where there is now blue, and definitely vice-versa.

This comes up a lot... is the whole "Nixon's Southern Strategy" bullet point in Civil-Rights-Era history somehow an invalid observation that I've just accepted because I lean left (meaning not hard-right)?  Strom Thurmond started off as a segregationist Democrat and flipped to the GOP without any change in his tune.  Contrast that with Robert Byrd: started off as a KKK Democrat and, while retaining his party allegiance ended up disavowing that past and working to foster civil rights in this country.

I never get any sort of meaningful response to this point, but I figured that the P-Tab is as fertile a ground as any.


According to most of the Republicans I know, the Southern Strategy was an uprising of Democrats against the fascist tyranny of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts that were shoved down their throats by the liberal elites in charge of the party. They simply switched to being Republicans because getting rid of those laws would maximize freedom, and the Republicans who switched to being Democrats did so because they wanted to come out of the closet as authoritarians and couldn't do so as part of the GOP. Seriously.
 
2014-07-23 03:16:39 PM  

James!: LBJ and Ladybird.

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x642]


The amount of love I have for that show is completely ridiculous.
 
2014-07-23 03:17:26 PM  

Serious Black: According to most of the Republicans I know, the Southern Strategy was an uprising of Democrats against the fascist tyranny of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts that were shoved down their throats by the liberal elites in charge of the party. They simply switched to being Republicans because getting rid of those laws would maximize freedom, and the Republicans who switched to being Democrats did so because they wanted to come out of the closet as authoritarians and couldn't do so as part of the GOP. Seriously.


You know, I've heard about people like this all the time but for the life of me have never run across one. I assume I'm just to isolated from the superderp here in MA, can I come visit sometime and meet these people. I think it would be a great sociological study
 
2014-07-23 03:23:59 PM  

somedude210: Serious Black: According to most of the Republicans I know, the Southern Strategy was an uprising of Democrats against the fascist tyranny of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts that were shoved down their throats by the liberal elites in charge of the party. They simply switched to being Republicans because getting rid of those laws would maximize freedom, and the Republicans who switched to being Democrats did so because they wanted to come out of the closet as authoritarians and couldn't do so as part of the GOP. Seriously.

You know, I've heard about people like this all the time but for the life of me have never run across one. I assume I'm just to isolated from the superderp here in MA, can I come visit sometime and meet these people. I think it would be a great sociological study


You're free to come to Kansas anytime you want, but if you venture west of Lawrence, you're going to run into some nuclear weapons-grade herp and derp. As for the people I'm referencing, I've met most of them in person but I don't see them often as they live across the country. One's in Oregon, a number are in Indiana, some are in Nebraska, and I think one is somewhere on the east coast.
 
2014-07-23 04:19:59 PM  
Republicans freed the slaves!!!!!!
 
2014-07-23 04:20:07 PM  

somedude210: Serious Black: According to most of the Republicans I know, the Southern Strategy was an uprising of Democrats against the fascist tyranny of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts that were shoved down their throats by the liberal elites in charge of the party. They simply switched to being Republicans because getting rid of those laws would maximize freedom, and the Republicans who switched to being Democrats did so because they wanted to come out of the closet as authoritarians and couldn't do so as part of the GOP. Seriously.

You know, I've heard about people like this all the time but for the life of me have never run across one. I assume I'm just to isolated from the superderp here in MA, can I come visit sometime and meet these people. I think it would be a great sociological study


My g/f's dad is one.  I tend not to talk much during dinner. (from Seattle)
 
2014-07-23 04:20:36 PM  
Live in the now!
 
2014-07-23 04:21:23 PM  
Without reading the article I can tell the author is counting on the ignorance of the reader and a cognitive dissonance of history.
 
2014-07-23 04:21:25 PM  
Sounds like the Pennsylvania Dutch are the REAL racists.
 
2014-07-23 04:22:01 PM  
[notthisshiat.jpg]

Yes, we know. For the last time, segregation was a North vs. South thing. The South was solid Democrat because Lincoln was a Republican, and the deep seated hatred for "the party of Lincoln" was strong. The deep seated hatred of black people was stronger, though, and all the racists became Republican with the Southern Strategy.

None of this is news.
 
2014-07-23 04:22:18 PM  
National Review writer rails against Democrats' past support of Jim Crow, ignores National Review's past current support of Jim Crow

FTFsubby
 
2014-07-23 04:24:26 PM  

Serious Black: You're free to come to Kansas anytime you want, but if you venture west of Lawrence, you're going to run into some nuclear weapons-grade herp and derp. As for the people I'm referencing, I've met most of them in person but I don't see them often as they live across the country. One's in Oregon, a number are in Indiana, some are in Nebraska, and I think one is somewhere on the east coast.


hmmm, I'm not sure I'd ever want to visit Kansas normally, let alone for the local wildlife.
 
2014-07-23 04:24:48 PM  
Robert Byrd changed his ways.  Strom Thurmond changed his party.
 
2014-07-23 04:25:43 PM  
Saying people are wrong now because the belong to the same party that was wrong 60 or so years ago on an issue, even though their position has totally changed on that position, is idiotic.

Hey people it's not a football game. The name of the team doesn't matter it's about the positions they hold.
 
2014-07-23 04:26:02 PM  
Man, Republicans are more and more desperately trying to convince people that the Dixiecrats and the Southern Strategy never existed.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so pitifully sad.
 
2014-07-23 04:26:34 PM  
The democrates of today are EXACTLY THE SAME IN EVERY WAY as the democrates of the past.  ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER, because things never ever ever change in politics.
 
2014-07-23 04:26:40 PM  
John Fund should have the words "RETROACTIVE ABORTION" tattooed across his forehead.
 
2014-07-23 04:29:49 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: The democrates of today are EXACTLY THE SAME IN EVERY WAY as the democrates of the past.  ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER, because things never ever ever change in politics.


If that were true, the current red states wouldn't be red.
I'm pretty certain Mississippi didn't suddenly change all their opinions about Civil Rights in 1964.
 
2014-07-23 04:32:51 PM  
Yeah... about that......
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-23 04:34:26 PM  

stoli n coke: Man, Republicans are more and more desperately trying to convince people that the Dixiecrats and the Southern Strategy never existed.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so pitifully sad.


There was a staggering thing of some kind.  I think it was that Southern republicans voted against the civil rights act in a greater percentage than southern democrats, and Northern democrats voted for it in greater percentages than northern republicans.  It was a thing to highlight how the "democrats were for it" was a fabrication to disguise the actual divide that existed.

But I can't remember where the numbers were from, and this could be just a faulty memory on my part.
 
2014-07-23 04:34:58 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: The democrates of today are EXACTLY THE SAME IN EVERY WAY as the democrates of the past.  ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER, because things never ever ever change in politics.


The democrates are hippocrates!  They took a hippocratic oath when they became democrates.
 
2014-07-23 04:40:41 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Yeah... about that......


Great find. I'm stealing that!
 
2014-07-23 04:41:39 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Yeah... about that......
[img.fark.net image 640x586]


Yeah which is more likely

A) the political views of the people of the country flip-flopped
B) The political party changed their positions.
 
2014-07-23 04:44:09 PM  

ikanreed: But I can't remember where the numbers were from

static.guim.co.uk
static.guim.co.uk
And when combined...
static.guim.co.uk
 
2014-07-23 04:45:03 PM  
img.fark.net
This helps for more context:
Lincoln/Democrat electoral map.
www.learnnc.org
 
2014-07-23 04:46:58 PM  

Corvus: [img.fark.net image 640x586]
This helps for more context:
Lincoln/Democrat electoral map.
[www.learnnc.org image 850x577]


My point:
The idea that the parties were the same as today is silly. Republican party and Democrats switched on much they stood for over the last 100 years.
 
2014-07-23 04:49:01 PM  
I used to think Fund (another highly punchable smug farking face) looked like the Toyman.

img.fark.netencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

But I later realized that Fund was far too stupid to ever hope to be a supervillain.  Bizarro's got more smarts than Fund.
 
2014-07-23 04:50:16 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: ikanreed: But I can't remember where the numbers were from
[static.guim.co.uk image 297x119]
[static.guim.co.uk image 304x106]
And when combined...
[static.guim.co.uk image 490x131]


And if you look at the voting record of Republican Reps and Senators in the former Confederate states, not one single Southern Republican voted for it.

So even this historical whitewash falls flat on its face.
 
2014-07-23 04:53:32 PM  

Corvus: Saying people are wrong now because the belong to the same party that was wrong 60 or so years ago on an issue, even though their position has totally changed on that position, is idiotic.

Hey people it's not a football game. The name of the team doesn't matter it's about the positions they hold.


Aat least that was in living memeory. A slight improvment over the "Party of Lincoln" stuff.
 
2014-07-23 04:55:56 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Republicans freed the slaves!!!!!!


then they have no one to blame but themselves.
 
2014-07-23 04:58:37 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Republicans freed the slaves!!!!!!


When your parties civil rights advances started and ended in the 1860's you may have an issue with appealing to people on your record of support.
 
2014-07-23 04:59:20 PM  

stoli n coke: And if you look at the voting record of Republican Reps and Senators in the former Confederate states, not one single Southern Republican voted for it.



That's... kind of exactly what my last image showed in the last column?

GOP/Confed
0 of 11 (0%)
0 of 1 (0%)
 
2014-07-23 04:59:41 PM  
Serious Black:
According to most of the Republicans I know, the Southern Strategy was an uprising of Democrats against the fascist tyranny of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts that were shoved down their throats by the liberal elites in charge of the party. They simply switched to being Republicans because getting rid of those laws would maximize freedom, and the Republicans who switched to being Democrats did so because they wanted to come out of the closet as authoritarians and couldn't do so as part of the GOP. Seriously.

img.fark.net
 
2014-07-23 05:02:01 PM  

ginandbacon: James!: LBJ and Ladybird.

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x642]

The amount of love I have for that show is completely ridiculous.


You and me both. Except the early episodes; those are terrible.
 
MFK
2014-07-23 05:12:12 PM  
so the author of TFA is going for "technically correct" instead of "actually correct?"
 
2014-07-23 05:15:53 PM  

patrick767: Serious Black:
According to most of the Republicans I know, the Southern Strategy was an uprising of Democrats against the fascist tyranny of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts that were shoved down their throats by the liberal elites in charge of the party. They simply switched to being Republicans because getting rid of those laws would maximize freedom, and the Republicans who switched to being Democrats did so because they wanted to come out of the closet as authoritarians and couldn't do so as part of the GOP. Seriously.

[img.fark.net image 272x185]


Great, now I know what the Cerberus to my own personal hell will look like.
 
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