If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(National Journal)   Undercover operation submits fake Obamacare applications to test the system's verification procedures - and to the surprise of absolutely nobody, nearly all the fake applications were approved   (nationaljournal.com) divider line 191
    More: Fail  
•       •       •

1341 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jul 2014 at 1:18 PM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



191 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-07-23 10:51:49 AM
11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".
 
2014-07-23 10:58:27 AM
Ok... you convinced me. Scrap the whole thing.
 
2014-07-23 10:59:28 AM
HAHA! Instead of paying $500, I only have to pay $200! I'm going to be rich!
 
2014-07-23 11:04:37 AM
more proving a problem by causing a problem.  genius!
 
2014-07-23 11:09:08 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: 11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".


Well, then. The author stands corrected and humbled, and catching almost 40% of bogus applications is truly a herculean achievement. It's hard to bat .400, you know.
 
2014-07-23 11:13:45 AM
And Santos L Halper can get a credit card. Stupid government credit card companies.
 
2014-07-23 11:19:48 AM

Gulper Eel: FlyingLizardOfDoom: 11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".

Well, then. The author stands corrected and humbled, and catching almost 40% of bogus applications is truly a herculean achievement. It's hard to bat .400, you know.


IMMEDIATELY catching. Many government agencies catch bogus claims (UI, for example) down the road. When you try to cheat, you often INITIALLY succeed. Then you get f*cked down the road. I've seen fraud caught several years down the road. You see it in the news about Medicare fraud almost weekly.

Getting "away with it" at first doesn't mean you got away with it. So go on with your bad self and ignore those pesky details!
 
2014-07-23 11:23:29 AM
And if they were all denied we'd likely be seeing reports of legitimate applications being denied because the rules are too strict.

/do the forms have any kind of "I say under penalty of law that everything I put in here is true" statement?
 
2014-07-23 11:24:26 AM

enry: And if they were all denied we'd likely be seeing reports of legitimate applications being denied because the rules are too strict.

/do the forms have any kind of "I say under penalty of law that everything I put in here is true" statement?


Oh, read TFA. GAO gets a pass.
 
2014-07-23 11:26:25 AM

mediablitz: Gulper Eel: FlyingLizardOfDoom: 11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".

Well, then. The author stands corrected and humbled, and catching almost 40% of bogus applications is truly a herculean achievement. It's hard to bat .400, you know.

IMMEDIATELY catching. Many government agencies catch bogus claims (UI, for example) down the road. When you try to cheat, you often INITIALLY succeed. Then you get f*cked down the road. I've seen fraud caught several years down the road. You see it in the news about Medicare fraud almost weekly.

Getting "away with it" at first doesn't mean you got away with it. So go on with your bad self and ignore those pesky details!


details have a liberal bias.
 
2014-07-23 11:27:22 AM

mediablitz: Gulper Eel: FlyingLizardOfDoom: 11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".

Well, then. The author stands corrected and humbled, and catching almost 40% of bogus applications is truly a herculean achievement. It's hard to bat .400, you know.

IMMEDIATELY catching. Many government agencies catch bogus claims (UI, for example) down the road. When you try to cheat, you often INITIALLY succeed. Then you get f*cked down the road. I've seen fraud caught several years down the road. You see it in the news about Medicare fraud almost weekly.

Getting "away with it" at first doesn't mean you got away with it. So go on with your bad self and ignore those pesky details!


Pretty much this.

60% got through step 1. This clearly proves that they will never be found out as they're further processed. or if anyone actually tries to use them.

fark me, if we spent a fraction as much diligence and paranoia ensuring the absolute wealthiest didn't get away with shiat that we spend ensuring the absolute poorest don't get away with shiat, we'd be better off.
 
2014-07-23 11:28:40 AM
"The total amount of these credits for the 11 approved applications is about $2,500 monthly or about $30,000 annually," Bagdoyan said

Maybe someone else could explain it, but I'm not seeing the upside for Joe Schuckatelly to try to defaud Obamacare.  I was under the impression that Obamacare didn't send you personally a check, they sent it to the insurance company you buy the plan from; or that at the very least you have to submit proof of having bought unsubsidized insurance all year long to get a higher tax refund when you go to file next year.

Step 1: Make up a fake identity.
Step 2: Sign up for a health insurance plan with a subsidy.
Step 3: The insurance company gets the money you defrauded out of the government?
 
2014-07-23 11:30:19 AM

ManateeGag: mediablitz: Gulper Eel: FlyingLizardOfDoom: 11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".

Well, then. The author stands corrected and humbled, and catching almost 40% of bogus applications is truly a herculean achievement. It's hard to bat .400, you know.

IMMEDIATELY catching. Many government agencies catch bogus claims (UI, for example) down the road. When you try to cheat, you often INITIALLY succeed. Then you get f*cked down the road. I've seen fraud caught several years down the road. You see it in the news about Medicare fraud almost weekly.

Getting "away with it" at first doesn't mean you got away with it. So go on with your bad self and ignore those pesky details!

details have a liberal bias.


Seriously.

The article says, straight up, that they used fraudulent documents to circumvent the requirements. Sure, you got away with it by faking documents. Congratulations. Enjoy that jail time, fine, repayment down the road because you were so sneaky up front.
 
2014-07-23 11:30:56 AM
I'm still not understanding how this scam works, though. So, I've set up an insurance plan for someone who doesn't exist...now what? I pay my reduced premiums and then...something. How do I make money on this lucrative business venture? Do I bill for services rendered to this fake person...just like insurance fraud is now - and has been for decades - committed?

If so, then this isn't an "Obamacare" issue. This is an insurance issue. "B-b-but I shouldn't be forced to subsidize fraud!" Guess what, Buttercup? If you have ever had insurance, you already are. Or were you under the impression that your insurance company simply wrote off those losses and didn't pass those off to you in the form of higher premiums/reduced coverage?
 
2014-07-23 11:33:54 AM
Well, who really cares? Seriously, is this an issue?

Look, I know it is important to find ways to make obamacare look bad, probably find some way to get the thing scuttled outright. We know, Sophie Novack, we know.

The thing is, this isn't the kind of fraud that makes a difference. Sure, some asshole can get some subsidy. Now, when tax time comes around, how does the little fraudster reconcile his income?

shiat gets reported to the IRS, so...

Either way, it is probably much better policy to allow this at the front and reconcile it later; allowing people to get in the system first, than it is to deny at the front end.
 
2014-07-23 11:36:03 AM

mediablitz: I've seen fraud caught several years down the road. You see it in the news about Medicare fraud almost weekly.


Yay for them for closing the barn door seven years after the horses left!

Sometimes Medicare gets a dime or two on the dollar back from "legit" providers who overdid it on the bill-padding. On a good day. But as for the rest of the hundreds of billions in improper payments? Gone.

And when the fraud's big enough...say, when an entire state overbills by $15 billion...Medicare/Medicaid steps right up and tells them in no incertain terms to overbill them by just a hair less in the future, pretty please with a cherry on top.
 
2014-07-23 11:37:39 AM
So the government checked on the program and found that it was letting bad applications through.  Good for them?
 
2014-07-23 11:44:38 AM

dr_blasto: Now, when tax time comes around, how does the little fraudster reconcile his income?


Who said the crook is going to file taxes under the same identity used to rip off Obamacare?

Earned income tax credit fraud is a thriving scam, besides.
 
2014-07-23 12:03:50 PM
Eleven of 12 fake online or telephone applications were approved, according to Bagdoyan. Five of six phone applications were successful, with the exception of one caller who declined to give a Social Security number. Six online applications were initially blocked by the verification system, but the investigators were able to find a workaround by going through the call center.

So 6 phone, 6 Internet, and 6 in person applications. The website blocked all 6 and in person blocked 5 of 5 (the last was ineligible for a subsidy so it doesn't count). Over the phone, almost everyone is told they're "accepted," whatever that means.  Unless checks were sent to these people or they can explain how this did anything other than waste time, they just proved the system is working as intended.
 
2014-07-23 12:05:13 PM
So this means Sarah Palin is automatically president and Obunghole has to play jazz trumpet in a dirty Bourbon Street nightclub, right?
 
2014-07-23 12:09:46 PM
Well, this system is clearly broken. We should go to single payer.
 
2014-07-23 12:14:50 PM
You get "accepted" now try to actually use your bogus insurance.  You know for actual medical treatment and tell me how that goes.
 
2014-07-23 12:22:16 PM

what_now: Well, this system is clearly broken. We should go to single payer.


I'm down.
 
2014-07-23 12:26:38 PM

Gecko Gingrich: I'm still not understanding how this scam works, though. So, I've set up an insurance plan for someone who doesn't exist...now what? I pay my reduced premiums and then...something. How do I make money on this lucrative business venture? Do I bill for services rendered to this fake person...just like insurance fraud is now - and has been for decades - committed?

If so, then this isn't an "Obamacare" issue. This is an insurance issue. "B-b-but I shouldn't be forced to subsidize fraud!" Guess what, Buttercup? If you have ever had insurance, you already are. Or were you under the impression that your insurance company simply wrote off those losses and didn't pass those off to you in the form of higher premiums/reduced coverage?


It is like buying a round trip airline ticket to somewhere and not coming home.  Buying something you don't need to get a subsidy you will never receive is more stupidity than fraud.
 
2014-07-23 12:27:59 PM

Karac: Step 1: Make up a fake identity.
Step 2: Sign up for a health insurance plan with a subsidy.
Step 3: The insurance company gets the money you defrauded out of the government? get health insurance you should be paying for, but have the government pick up part of the tab.


The article is silly, but it's not like there isn't an obvious upside here. I kind of want to see the GAO report, since from the article "The undercover investigators created fake identities by inventing Social Security numbers, income, and citizenship, and by counterfeiting documents."

That's a lot of ground to cover from "lied about income to be eligible for a subsidy" to "created a fake identity including forged papers." So I want to know what, exactly, was and was not caught by the application system.
 
2014-07-23 12:52:41 PM

nmrsnr: Karac: Step 1: Make up a fake identity.
Step 2: Sign up for a health insurance plan with a subsidy.
Step 3: The insurance company gets the money you defrauded out of the government? get health insurance you should be paying for, but have the government pick up part of the tab.

The article is silly, but it's not like there isn't an obvious upside here. I kind of want to see the GAO report, since from the article "The undercover investigators created fake identities by inventing Social Security numbers, income, and citizenship, and by counterfeiting documents."

That's a lot of ground to cover from "lied about income to be eligible for a subsidy" to "created a fake identity including forged papers." So I want to know what, exactly, was and was not caught by the application system.


So people are doing this just to get money off their own personal insurance?  The most expensive plan in my county is about $350 a month; even if you get that fully subsidized it seems like a hell of a risk for $4,200 a year.  I would hope someone that's going to that much trouble to commit a felony would at least aim for five digits.
 
2014-07-23 01:01:46 PM
A kid with a fake ID managed to buy beer, therefore Prohibition.
 
2014-07-23 01:01:51 PM
I would hope someone that's going to that much trouble to commit a felony would at least aim for five digits.

Yeah, but it's a felony like paying your housekeeper under the table is a felony. Even if they knew you were doing it, would they really prosecute? And like I said, there's a huge difference between "lie about my income on an online form" which I can see a lot of people doing, and "making up fake IDs, SSNs, and forging documents" which nobody is really going to try. The article doesn't specify what was needed to pass the application test.
 
2014-07-23 01:02:19 PM
Ok. And? Are you back to the conservative hatred that someone, somewhere who is not rich might be getting something they don't 100% deserve?
 
2014-07-23 01:06:49 PM

nmrsnr: I would hope someone that's going to that much trouble to commit a felony would at least aim for five digits.

Yeah, but it's a felony like paying your housekeeper under the table is a felony. Even if they knew you were doing it, would they really prosecute? And like I said, there's a huge difference between "lie about my income on an online form" which I can see a lot of people doing, and "making up fake IDs, SSNs, and forging documents" which nobody is really going to try. The article doesn't specify what was needed to pass the application test.


The only way that "lie about my income on a form" gets you money from Obamacare is if you also include "lie about my income on my tax returns."  Go ask Al Capone or Wesley Snipes if the IRS doesn't try to prosecute for that.
 
2014-07-23 01:15:27 PM
The only way that "lie about my income on a form" gets you money from Obamacare is if you also include "lie about my income on my tax returns." Go ask Al Capone or Wesley Snipes if the IRS doesn't try to prosecute for that.

Exactly. They don't, unless you're a mob boss or owe millions of dollars.

Generally if they find out they say "we think you made a mistake, pay us the difference plus $X fine, or we'll put a lien on your house."
 
2014-07-23 01:22:07 PM
What... exactly is being celebrated here?

"Look how broken this federal system is! Thank God we were smart enough not to even try setting up our own system! We sure showed those feds!"
 
2014-07-23 01:22:42 PM
Meh, hardly news.

Stripping the subsidies makes Obamacare (even more) useless anyhow.
 
2014-07-23 01:23:30 PM
Well that settles it then.  REPEAL AND DO NOT REPLACE
 
2014-07-23 01:23:42 PM

Karac: "The total amount of these credits for the 11 approved applications is about $2,500 monthly or about $30,000 annually," Bagdoyan said


Or, to look at it another way, equivalent to 800,000 annual government shutdowns.

Thank heavens, the GOP is here to prevent waste.
 
2014-07-23 01:23:46 PM
"Whoops, somewhere a poor might get something it doesn't deserve and lessen the tax break on my fifth home. Time to cancel society."
 
2014-07-23 01:24:11 PM

what_now: Well, this system is clearly broken. We should go to single payer.


Works for me.
 
2014-07-23 01:24:40 PM

Gecko Gingrich: I'm still not understanding how this scam works, though. So, I've set up an insurance plan for someone who doesn't exist...now what? I pay my reduced premiums and then...something. How do I make money on this lucrative business venture? Do I bill for services rendered to this fake person...just like insurance fraud is now - and has been for decades - committed?

If so, then this isn't an "Obamacare" issue. This is an insurance issue. "B-b-but I shouldn't be forced to subsidize fraud!" Guess what, Buttercup? If you have ever had insurance, you already are. Or were you under the impression that your insurance company simply wrote off those losses and didn't pass those off to you in the form of higher premiums/reduced coverage?


I think the point may be "But teh ill eaglez messicans may be able to get it!" or something. Just guessing.
 
2014-07-23 01:25:55 PM

clkeagle: What... exactly is being celebrated here?

"Look how broken this federal system is! Thank God we were smart enough not to even try setting up our own system! We sure showed those feds!"


Try: "We spend billions on a faulty system and were lied to about it.  Then we spent millions more to fix it, and it's still broken.  Now I find out the subsidies to help fund my already increased rates are illegal.  My faith that the government bureaucracy would be honest and efficient has been broken!"
 
2014-07-23 01:26:53 PM

Karac: The only way that "lie about my income on a form" gets you money from Obamacare is if you also include "lie about my income on my tax returns." Go ask Al Capone or Wesley Snipes if the IRS doesn't try to prosecute for that.


Well, if House Republicans' wish would come true ...
 
2014-07-23 01:26:56 PM
This reminds me of the poutrage over fraudulent voter registration. Okay, I've registered to vote as my dead uncle - now what? What do I do with all this newfound power?
 
2014-07-23 01:27:48 PM
Wouldn't cases like this be revealed after they file their first tax return after being on a subsidized plan?
 
2014-07-23 01:28:01 PM

born_yesterday: Karac: "The total amount of these credits for the 11 approved applications is about $2,500 monthly or about $30,000 annually," Bagdoyan said

Or, to look at it another way, equivalent to 800,000 annual government shutdowns.

Thank heavens, the GOP is here to prevent waste.


Oops, expressed that poorly.  One government shutdown equals 800,000 years of Obamacare fraud, or about 8 times longer than humanity is thought to have existed.
 
2014-07-23 01:28:25 PM

mediablitz: Gulper Eel: FlyingLizardOfDoom: 11 out of 18 is not "nearly all".

Well, then. The author stands corrected and humbled, and catching almost 40% of bogus applications is truly a herculean achievement. It's hard to bat .400, you know.

IMMEDIATELY catching. Many government agencies catch bogus claims (UI, for example) down the road. When you try to cheat, you often INITIALLY succeed. Then you get f*cked down the road. I've seen fraud caught several years down the road. You see it in the news about Medicare fraud almost weekly.

Getting "away with it" at first doesn't mean you got away with it. So go on with your bad self and ignore those pesky details!


It's also important that it's been established that the subsidy verification system isn't up yet for this year, so those that lie about their annual income this time around didn't have anything to verify it based on; once that's set up any incorrect/false information will be corrected.
 
2014-07-23 01:30:18 PM

born_yesterday: born_yesterday: Karac: "The total amount of these credits for the 11 approved applications is about $2,500 monthly or about $30,000 annually," Bagdoyan said

Or, to look at it another way, equivalent to 800,000 annual government shutdowns.

Thank heavens, the GOP is here to prevent waste.

Oops, expressed that poorly.  One government shutdown equals 800,000 years of Obamacare fraud, or about 8 times longer than humanity is thought to have existed.


Fraud is cool now.  Because only those 11 have even dreamt of ripping off anyone.
 
2014-07-23 01:31:08 PM
They should try this with defense contracts.
 
2014-07-23 01:31:55 PM
Fark your sick kid - someone might get something for free!
 
2014-07-23 01:33:56 PM
Soon all those fake applicants will get fake cancer and burden us all with their fake costs.
 
2014-07-23 01:34:18 PM

Prophet of Loss: Fark your sick kid - someone might get something for free!


It isn't free.  Someone always pays for it.  Usually the same people.
 
2014-07-23 01:34:20 PM

macadamnut: They should try this with defense contracts.


contractor: Whoa, Hey! lets not blow this whole thing out of proportion!
 
Displayed 50 of 191 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report