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(News.com.au)   So a forensic expert says falling from 33,000 feet out of an airplane that was just hit by a missile doesn't really hurt that much. Good to know   (news.com.au) divider line 87
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6073 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2014 at 11:53 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-22 09:56:41 AM  
Vesna Vulović would beg to differ.  She survived a 33,000 foot fall from an airliner that was blown up with a bomb.  Without a parachute.
 
2014-07-22 10:02:50 AM  
well, after you explode, I doubt you feel anything.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-07-22 10:26:16 AM  

dittybopper: Vesna Vulović would beg to differ.  She survived a 33,000 foot fall from an airliner that was blown up with a bomb.  Without a parachute.


Apparently she didn't feel a thing.
 
2014-07-22 10:57:39 AM  

vpb: dittybopper: Vesna Vulović would beg to differ.  She survived a 33,000 foot fall from an airliner that was blown up with a bomb.  Without a parachute.

Apparently she didn't feel a thing.


I'm sure her long recovery hurt.  A lot.
 
2014-07-22 11:07:54 AM  
Yeah, I'm sure the "falling" part wouldn't hurt at all. It's the whole "impact with the ground" thing that might, though.
 
2014-07-22 11:09:26 AM  
That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.
 
2014-07-22 11:19:50 AM  
I've endured rapid decompression in flight. It was painful. I'm fairly sure explosive decompression would be much worse.
 
2014-07-22 11:51:47 AM  
Just like going to sleep. Inside a giant artillery shell.
 
2014-07-22 11:56:07 AM  

Cagey B: Just like going to sleep. Inside a giant artillery shell.


I hate that this made me chuckle
 
2014-07-22 11:57:49 AM  

nekom: That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.


Now see, that's where you're wrong.

The plane came down in the Ukraine.
 
2014-07-22 11:58:30 AM  
I'd probably manage an "ouch."
 
2014-07-22 11:59:14 AM  
Yeah, sounds like a real peaceful way to go.

I don't know why anyone hasn't opened up a hospice that shoots a 747 full of terminal cancer patients out of the sky yet.
 
2014-07-22 11:59:15 AM  

nekom: That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.


Witnesses said that there were bodies falling from the sky. That's a pretty good indication that at some point the cabin depressurized.
 
2014-07-22 11:59:16 AM  

SurfaceTension: Yeah, I'm sure the "falling" part wouldn't hurt at all. It's the whole "impact with the ground" thing that might, though.


The change in air pressure from that height to ground level will make your ears hurt like hell.
 
2014-07-22 11:59:52 AM  
Falling doesn't hurt at all.  It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
2014-07-22 12:00:39 PM  

dittybopper: Vesna Vulović would beg to differ.  She survived a 33,000 foot fall from an airliner that was blown up with a bomb.  Without a parachute.


i believe they changed it to only 3000 feet and that it was a hoax. I read one article that said there was no way that plane debris would be spread out over that short of a distance had it happened at 33000 feet.
 
2014-07-22 12:01:12 PM  
Prof Royds...anyone else catch that?
 
GBB
2014-07-22 12:01:21 PM  

nekom: That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.


It's not the speed that kills.  It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
2014-07-22 12:04:51 PM  

Cagey B: Just like going to sleep. Inside a giant artillery shell.


Being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep... in a giant blender. - Homer Simpson
 
2014-07-22 12:05:43 PM  

nekom: That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.


Even if it did come down mostly intact, it doesn't take much to depressurize the cabin. I'm sure a missile could manage that pretty easily.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-22 12:06:53 PM  
nekom

A video allegedly of MH17 largely intact with a wing on fire is claimed in comments to be of a different plane shot down the previous week.

Do you have one that is authoritatively MH17?
 
2014-07-22 12:07:07 PM  

ManateeGag: well, after you explode, I doubt you feel anything.


Most passengers probably didn't explode. Anti-aircraft missiles operate on the principle that even slight damage is able to bring down most aircraft, because of depressurization, destruction of thin control surfaces (which aren't armored, because armor would slow you down and reduce your range), engine damage (jet engines are particularly sensitive), or severing of the fuel line (possibly causing an explosion); they also operate on proximity fuses so the explosion doesn't direct impact the plane.

That said, the explosive decompression, cold air at high altitudes, and suffocation probably would kill you too, long before you hit the ground.
 
2014-07-22 12:07:59 PM  
"That extremely cold environment would have rendered the passengers unconscious within seconds."

Not much of a forensics expert. I used to have walk in freezers in my lab in which we stored things at -70 C. My max exposure time was four minutes, not seconds. The lack of oxygen is what would have rendered them unconscious in a few seconds, but it would have taken several minuted for them to die. Still they wouldn't have suffered very much.
 
2014-07-22 12:09:56 PM  

nekom: The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.


There's video? Sounds kind of morbid, but I am vaguely curious.

The footage of the wreckage spread out all over the countryside seems to suggest it came apart in the air though.
 
2014-07-22 12:10:02 PM  

ZAZ: nekom

A video allegedly of MH17 largely intact with a wing on fire is claimed in comments to be of a different plane shot down the previous week.

Do you have one that is authoritatively MH17?


The one I've seen shows no fire or sign of the aircraft, just a huge explosion and fireball.  Whether it's authentic or not I couldn't say for sure.  Until the investigation runs its course all we can do is speculate based on the alleged evidence,
 
2014-07-22 12:10:51 PM  
This is what happens when a plane doesn't carry enough parachutes for everyone. You'd think they'd have learned from the Titanic.
 
2014-07-22 12:10:54 PM  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyxIiW9m2mM">https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=RyxIiW9m2mM

That's the one I'm referring to.
 
2014-07-22 12:11:53 PM  

SurfaceTension: Yeah, I'm sure the "falling" part wouldn't hurt at all. It's the whole "impact with the ground" thing that might, though.


I can imagine the impact could end a life without time for much pain recognition. The falling part would be torturous, for me.

I remember bits of the Satanic Verses opening - the angel Gabriel, and the other, singing on the way down. Also, the image of passengers falling like ash from cigar was pretty chilling.
 
2014-07-22 12:12:53 PM  

JackieRabbit: "That extremely cold environment would have rendered the passengers unconscious within seconds."

Not much of a forensics expert. I used to have walk in freezers in my lab in which we stored things at -70 C. My max exposure time was four minutes, not seconds. The lack of oxygen is what would have rendered them unconscious in a few seconds, but it would have taken several minuted for them to die. Still they wouldn't have suffered very much.


The cold part sounds completely bogus. Sure, it's cold but I've never in my life heard that extreme cold will knock you out within seconds. Even a total lack of oxygen won't render a person unconscious within "seconds", unless by "seconds" you mean 30-90 or perhaps even a bit more depending on the person and circumstances.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-22 12:13:53 PM  
According to Wikipedia you get about a minute of useful consciousness at 10 km. An average person should have time to get an oxygen mask on at any altitude flown by commercial aviation.

I haven't looked at crash scene shots yet. Were they wearing masks?
 
2014-07-22 12:18:11 PM  

ZAZ: I haven't looked at crash scene shots yet. Were they wearing masks?


I don't recall seeing any, but the wreckage is severe.  Don't look if you're squeamish.  Not all of the bodies were in tact.
 
2014-07-22 12:18:15 PM  

ZAZ: According to Wikipedia you get about a minute of useful consciousness at 10 km. An average person should have time to get an oxygen mask on at any altitude flown by commercial aviation.

I haven't looked at crash scene shots yet. Were they wearing masks?


I'm looking at that page, too. It also says that is basically the max for a person at rest. Explosive decompression reduces it by 50% and I'm sure freaking out reduces it more. I'd say you get about 20 seconds tops.
 
2014-07-22 12:19:38 PM  
 
2014-07-22 12:19:57 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: SurfaceTension: Yeah, I'm sure the "falling" part wouldn't hurt at all. It's the whole "impact with the ground" thing that might, though.

The change in air pressure from that height to ground level will make your ears hurt like hell.


It wouldn't hurt long...
 
2014-07-22 12:20:08 PM  

nekom: in tact.


nekom: in tact.


Dude, "intact" is the word, not "in tact".
 
2014-07-22 12:22:51 PM  

Yaw String: [i65.photobucket.com image 572x208]http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_


bad link . here it is.

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)
 
2014-07-22 12:24:09 PM  
I believe the operative words are doesn't really hurt "that much"

Also, if you have to do it, there is only one way to do it with style:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-22 12:25:11 PM  

nekom: ZAZ: I haven't looked at crash scene shots yet. Were they wearing masks?

I don't recall seeing any, but the wreckage is severe.  Don't look if you're squeamish.  Not all of the bodies were in tact.


"Intact" is one word. "In tact" means something different than you intend. You've done this more than once in this thread.
 
2014-07-22 12:26:58 PM  

PiperArrow: nekom: That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.

Witnesses said that there were bodies falling from the sky. That's a pretty good indication that at some point the cabin depressurized.


Yea, and having seen video of those bodies (on Liveleak, of course), they
all showed blunt force trauma, and burnage, but were intact. And, I was surprised to see many of them naked. Hope their clothes weren't taken by looters, cause that would be farked up.
 
2014-07-22 12:27:52 PM  
37.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-22 12:29:43 PM  

Jument: JackieRabbit: "That extremely cold environment would have rendered the passengers unconscious within seconds."

Not much of a forensics expert. I used to have walk in freezers in my lab in which we stored things at -70 C. My max exposure time was four minutes, not seconds. The lack of oxygen is what would have rendered them unconscious in a few seconds, but it would have taken several minuted for them to die. Still they wouldn't have suffered very much.

The cold part sounds completely bogus. Sure, it's cold but I've never in my life heard that extreme cold will knock you out within seconds. Even a total lack of oxygen won't render a person unconscious within "seconds", unless by "seconds" you mean 30-90 or perhaps even a bit more depending on the person and circumstances.


Actually at the partial pressure of oxygen at that altitude is so low that during a explosive decompression, the sudden drop in available oxygen would render one unconscious in mere seconds. Pilots have oxygen masks that deploy immediately (real ones, not the POSs in the cabin) and the first order of business is to get them on. The second order is to roll the aircraft and put it into as deep a dive as possible to decrease altitude fast. They have minutes before their passengers begin to die.
 
2014-07-22 12:36:33 PM  

Jument: The cold part sounds completely bogus. Sure, it's cold but I've never in my life heard that extreme cold will knock you out within seconds. Even a total lack of oxygen won't render a person unconscious within "seconds", unless by "seconds" you mean 30-90 or perhaps even a bit more depending on the person and circumstances.


The other problem is: Even if it did knock you out right away, you've got 45 seconds or so before you reach the ground (possibly much longer if you are still in the cabin, which has a large surface area and likely a slower terminal velocity).  That is a long time to wake back up.  I've been knocked out twice, and both times I was awake within a few seconds.  Sure, it's low O2 and Cold at 30,000 feet, but you are not staying at 30'000 feet long.  Pretty quickly you are at 15,000 feet with plenty of O2 and warmth.
 
2014-07-22 12:39:02 PM  

netweavr: This is what happens when a plane doesn't carry enough parachutes for everyone. You'd think they'd have learned from the Titanic.


Well, remember, the Titanic was a cruise liner that was shot down over the North Atlantic.  This was over land... different regulations.
 
2014-07-22 12:42:30 PM  

LostInThisDimension: Smeggy Smurf: SurfaceTension: Yeah, I'm sure the "falling" part wouldn't hurt at all. It's the whole "impact with the ground" thing that might, though.

The change in air pressure from that height to ground level will make your ears hurt like hell.

It wouldn't hurt long...


Terminal velocity is roughly 120 mph.  33,000 feet is 6.25 miles.  Figure half a minute a mile that's 3 minutes of agony.
 
2014-07-22 12:43:01 PM  

netweavr: This is what happens when a plane doesn't carry enough parachutes for everyone. You'd think they'd have learned from the Titanic.


They had plenty of parachutes on the Titanic.  They didn't have enough wetsuits for all of the passengers though.  The submarine that torpedoed the ship didn't try to pick up any of the survivors before hiding back into the Iceberg.

Jeez, we all need to study our history more.

The End
 
2014-07-22 12:47:52 PM  

BiffSpiffy: netweavr: This is what happens when a plane doesn't carry enough parachutes for everyone. You'd think they'd have learned from the Titanic.

They had plenty of parachutes on the Titanic.  They didn't have enough wetsuits for all of the passengers though.  The submarine that torpedoed the ship didn't try to pick up any of the survivors before hiding back into the Iceberg.

Jeez, we all need to study our history more.

The End


The submarine theory has by now been fully debunked. Like we all need conspiracy theorists murking the waters!
 
2014-07-22 12:56:54 PM  

doosh: BiffSpiffy: netweavr: This is what happens when a plane doesn't carry enough parachutes for everyone. You'd think they'd have learned from the Titanic.

They had plenty of parachutes on the Titanic.  They didn't have enough wetsuits for all of the passengers though.  The submarine that torpedoed the ship didn't try to pick up any of the survivors before hiding back into the Iceberg.

Jeez, we all need to study our history more.

The End

The submarine theory has by now been fully debunked. Like we all need conspiracy theorists murking the waters!


I saw the Oliver Stone Titanic movie. It showed a second iceberg.
 
2014-07-22 01:02:30 PM  
Even a few seconds can seem like an eternity.  See "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge".


/and everybody knows the Titanic was shot down by aliens. "Peaceful" grays, my shiny metal ass.
 
2014-07-22 01:02:36 PM  

raerae1980: PiperArrow: nekom: That's if the cabin did indeed depressurize.  We don't know that yet.  The video out there of the crash itself appears (to me at least) to show it coming down largely in tact.  If that were the case, the crash and ensuing explosion would have killed them instantly, but they might have lived until then.

Witnesses said that there were bodies falling from the sky. That's a pretty good indication that at some point the cabin depressurized.

Yea, and having seen video of those bodies (on Liveleak, of course), they
all showed blunt force trauma, and burnage, but were intact. And, I was surprised to see many of them naked. Hope their clothes weren't taken by looters, cause that would be farked up.


I've wondered about that, too.  I've noticed it in other published crash scenes.  Best explanation I've seen is here.

""If the clothes are missing, usually that means that [the passenger] was probably either ejected from the plane or exposed to extreme wind blast going hundreds of miles an hour, falling out of the sky," said Diehl, who has worked as an investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board, the Federal Aviation Administration, and the United States Air Force. "The effect of very high speed wind, or the slipstream, hitting the bodies can easily literally rip the clothing right off."
 
2014-07-22 01:07:27 PM  
Drexl's Eye:
I've wondered about that, too.  I've noticed it in other published crash scenes.  Best explanation I've seen is here.

""If the clothes are missing, usually that means that [the passenger] was probably either ejected from the plane or exposed to extreme wind blast going hundreds of miles an hour, falling out of the sky," said Diehl, who has worked as an investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board, the Federal Aviation Administration, and the United States Air Force. "The effect of very high speed wind, or the slipstream, hitting the bodies can easily literally rip the clothing right off."


When my uncle was hit by a car, he was literally knocked out of his shoes.  He survived though.  I can only imagine the forces involved in an air crash could easily top that.
 
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