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(Slate)   Lawyer claims it's impossible to get revenge porn off the internet   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: PSA, Jackie Speier, U.S. Copyright Office, marital rape, lawsuits  
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4732 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2014 at 10:52 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-22 08:27:08 AM  
What does he mean? I get off on revenge porn on the internet all the time.

Wait, what?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-22 08:48:43 AM  
Today, revenge porn is the domestic violence of the '90s

When I got to that part I switched from "interesting summary of a legal issue" to "check your hormones, lady, because you seem to be getting hysterical over name calling."

If we're going to imagine legislatively changing societal values, we might start by passing a law saying there are plenty of boobs on the internet and you shouldn't overreact if yours are among them.
 
2014-07-22 08:51:06 AM  

ZAZ: Today, revenge porn is the domestic violence of the '90s

When I got to that part I switched from "interesting summary of a legal issue" to "check your hormones, lady, because you seem to be getting hysterical over name calling."

If we're going to imagine legislatively changing societal values, we might start by passing a law saying there are plenty of boobs on the internet and you shouldn't overreact if yours are among them.


It should work more like Fark.  Here, I just put the internet boobs on Ignore.
 
2014-07-22 09:02:20 AM  
Does revenge porn involve wiping your dick on the curtains at the end?
 
2014-07-22 09:10:30 AM  
Meh, it's a serious enough issue but the task of eradicating revenge porn is well nigh impossible.

At some level you need to find a mechanism to make it easier for victims of this stuff to be able to issue take down orders.

Don't people who put porn online have to have some way of verifying that the people in the porn are of age or be liable for kiddie porn charges?

Consent agreements that kind of thing?

Work with that.
 
2014-07-22 09:53:32 AM  
So like a lawyer he says we need more laws.
 
2014-07-22 10:55:35 AM  
If people don't have the common sense to either not take pictures of themselves naked, or at the very least keep control of those pictures, it's hard to feel sorry for them.
 
2014-07-22 10:55:48 AM  
I thought all the "revenge porn" was fake... Seems fake on the sites I've been to, anyway
 
2014-07-22 10:56:47 AM  
I believe one Canadian province passed a law making it illegal to upload compromising images of anyone without their consent, regardless of their age, and regardless of if they a) sent it to you first or b) you were the one who took the image. Of course, proving who uploaded an image is a job in itself.
 
2014-07-22 10:56:58 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Does revenge porn involve wiping your dick on the curtains at the end?


Dunno, but it will keep her screaming.

static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-07-22 10:56:58 AM  
If you give nude pics to your boyfriend they're his pictures now. He's going to do what he wants with them. They are out of your control.
 
2014-07-22 10:57:07 AM  

Gifted Many Few: If people don't have the common sense to either not take pictures of themselves naked, or at the very least keep control of those pictures, it's hard to feel sorry for them.


This.

/blah, blah, blah we're blaming the victim and slut-shaming...
 
2014-07-22 10:58:45 AM  

ZAZ: Today, revenge porn is the domestic violence of the '90s

When I got to that part I switched from "interesting summary of a legal issue" to "check your hormones, lady, because you seem to be getting hysterical over name calling."

If we're going to imagine legislatively changing societal values, we might start by passing a law saying there are plenty of boobs on the internet and you shouldn't overreact if yours are among them.


Punch her in the face, and then make her go to bed with you.
 
2014-07-22 10:58:54 AM  
That isn't what the lawyer said at all. He said that if the images are selfies, you can copyright them and then whatever site has them posted must remove them. If they aren't selfies, there is little you can do to have the images removed. You can go after whoever posted them though. He also states that the laws recently passed by knee-jerk, dumbass legislatures are too broad and will not pass constitutional muster.
 
2014-07-22 10:59:42 AM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Gifted Many Few: If people don't have the common sense to either not take pictures of themselves naked, or at the very least keep control of those pictures, it's hard to feel sorry for them.

This.

/blah, blah, blah we're blaming the victim and slut-shaming...


They're not victims. Just like idiots that try to skate down a set of stairs and lands on their teeth aren't victims because we laugh at them on YouTube.
 
2014-07-22 11:01:45 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Does revenge porn involve wiping your dick on the curtains at the end?


no, the pillowcases
 
2014-07-22 11:01:55 AM  
How dare someone objectify my objectification of my own body!
 
2014-07-22 11:02:05 AM  

JackieRabbit: That isn't what the lawyer said at all. He said that if the images are selfies, you can copyright them and then whatever site has them posted must remove them. If they aren't selfies, there is little you can do to have the images removed. You can go after whoever posted them though. He also states that the laws recently passed by knee-jerk, dumbass legislatures are too broad and will not pass constitutional muster.


Copyright or trademark your image.  Send cease and desist letters, wait a month or two, and sue the fark out of all the hosting sites.
 
2014-07-22 11:04:45 AM  

JackieRabbit: That isn't what the lawyer said at all. He said that if the images are selfies, you can copyright them and then whatever site has them posted must remove them


I think that would often depend on the TOS of the service you post them to (be it a twitter DM, a facebook PM, Snapchat, etc. Since i think a lot of those sites clam that by using their service for images, you surrender your copyright to them.

/havent actually looked at the TOS, but maybe
 
2014-07-22 11:05:04 AM  
And the lawyer is right, Subby...

Gifted Many Few: If people don't have the common sense to either not take pictures of themselves naked, or at the very least keep control of those pictures, it's hard to feel sorry for them.


In this case, the girl's Dropbox account got broken into. She had taken them with her phone and uploaded them to Dropbox so she could get them on her computer. It's not like she posted the shiat on HotOrNot.com.

Regardless, blaming the victim is the territory that scum likes to call home, but if that is a comfortable location for you, I guess we can't stop you.
 
2014-07-22 11:05:48 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I thought all the "revenge porn" was fake... Seems fake on the sites I've been to, anyway


I think it is like much of the illegal or illegal-in-some-states porn out there. It's not on the most sites*, however you can still find the real stuff if you really try (but you're putting your name on some FBI watch list). Otherwise, most sites* will have simulated versions of it for your conscience-free fapping pleasure.

*Sites that don't want legal trouble.
 
2014-07-22 11:05:57 AM  

LemSkroob: JackieRabbit: That isn't what the lawyer said at all. He said that if the images are selfies, you can copyright them and then whatever site has them posted must remove them

I think that would often depend on the TOS of the service you post them to (be it a twitter DM, a facebook PM, Snapchat, etc. Since i think a lot of those sites clam that by using their service for images, you surrender your copyright to them.

/havent actually looked at the TOS, but maybe


She put them on her (supposedly secure) Dropbox account.
 
2014-07-22 11:06:10 AM  
My wife and I enjoy sharing pictures of us doing sex stuff on a certain social website made for such things and I'd show a picture of my dick to anybody of age who asked.

There's no reason to be ashamed of your naked body or your sexuality. Those are the most basic aspects of your identity. That's the framework of your person.

Everyone's naked under their clothes, and everyone loves to have sex. And we all have some weird stuff that really floats our boat.
 
2014-07-22 11:06:13 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: FirstNationalBastard: Does revenge porn involve wiping your dick on the curtains at the end?

no, the pillowcases


no, her teddy bear
 
2014-07-22 11:07:31 AM  

Yogimus: JackieRabbit: That isn't what the lawyer said at all. He said that if the images are selfies, you can copyright them and then whatever site has them posted must remove them. If they aren't selfies, there is little you can do to have the images removed. You can go after whoever posted them though. He also states that the laws recently passed by knee-jerk, dumbass legislatures are too broad and will not pass constitutional muster.

Copyright or trademark your image.  Send cease and desist letters, wait a month or two, and sue the fark out of all the hosting sites.


Trademarking is not used for such things. A copyright may be obtained in minutes online. The cease and desist order issued by the lawyer means cease and desist now or we file suit by the end of the day. He says he can get this taken care of in a couple of hours.
 
2014-07-22 11:08:28 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I thought all the "revenge porn" was fake... Seems fake on the sites I've been to, anyway


Then you haven't been to THIS asshole's site... He built a whole website based on revenge porn and posting addresses of the women posted. The guy is a total douchenozzle.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/hunter-moore-arrested_n_465 37 33.html
 
2014-07-22 11:09:16 AM  

ZAZ: ...legislatively changing societal values...


That might make some sort of sense if not for the fact that our legal system recognizes intent.

Regardless of how the boob images got into the hands of the poster, if the intent in sharing them was to humiliate, intimidate or otherwise inflict distress on the person - pretty much the definition of "revenge porn" - it's harassment and you'd have to be pretty thick to think there shouldn't be legal avenues for prosecuting the posters.
 
2014-07-22 11:09:58 AM  
I expect this to be a largely self correcting problem.  Most women will learn what I tell my kid: never take a picture that you wouldn't show to your grandparents.  Sure, there will always be a few idiots who never learn to serve as examples for the rest.  And sure, a few asshole guys are ruining a good thing for the rest of us.  But that's just the way things are.
 
2014-07-22 11:10:42 AM  
What's the worst that can happen? So you give the wrong person nude pictures of yourself, and they end up on the internet. If they tell you, maybe you can even find them. But maybe not. And why bother? You already know what you look like naked. So, someone comes up to you one day and says,
"Hey, I saw some naked pics on the internet the other day that look just like you. Was that you?"
"No, of course not. I was never dumb enough to give my useless boyfriends naked pictures of myself."
"But they look just like you!"
And you shrug and say, "Yeah, so what? I bet I can find naked pictures of someone who looks just like YOU on the internet too---actually, probably not. No one would be cruel enough to do that."
THE END
 
2014-07-22 11:14:20 AM  
Meh...

Leave it up.

In 20 years you'll be looking at it going, "Wow, look at that butt...I had such a great butt back then..."
 
2014-07-22 11:16:16 AM  
I'm glad some of you live in the wonderful world where nothing bad can happen. Cars will not get stolen if we leave them unlocked, if you drop a wallet full of cash it will be returned, and absolutely no one shoplifts. I don't live in that world. There are people with ill intent all around, and I refuse to give them the opportunity to victimize me. If that means that I have to take a few more steps and act smarter, so be it.
 
2014-07-22 11:17:19 AM  
TFA: That's typical revenge porn; it's bullying.

I kinda wish we'd stop applying that word to every horrible thing that people do to one another.

/that is all
 
2014-07-22 11:17:27 AM  
How did they break into her dropbox account? My guess is a weak password that she used everywhere.
 
2014-07-22 11:19:06 AM  
"Or the one I've heard more times than I can count is, "Just stop taking naked photos." In that case, there's no need for domestic violence laws either, I guess."

Uh, not taking naked selfies seems like a pretty damned good idea to me. Maybe keep the face out of the shot?
 
2014-07-22 11:21:21 AM  

Russ1642: If you give nude pics to your boyfriend they're his pictures now. He's going to do what he wants with them. They are out of your control.


And vice versa.

If you're gonna get naked with a camera around, it's going to get on the internet.

Same way you treat a loaded gun, even if it's not loaded, it's loaded.   Don't point it at yourself and click unless you are ready to accept the consequences.
 
2014-07-22 11:21:53 AM  

JackieRabbit: Yogimus: JackieRabbit: That isn't what the lawyer said at all. He said that if the images are selfies, you can copyright them and then whatever site has them posted must remove them. If they aren't selfies, there is little you can do to have the images removed. You can go after whoever posted them though. He also states that the laws recently passed by knee-jerk, dumbass legislatures are too broad and will not pass constitutional muster.

Copyright or trademark your image.  Send cease and desist letters, wait a month or two, and sue the fark out of all the hosting sites.

Trademarking is not used for such things. A copyright may be obtained in minutes online. The cease and desist order issued by the lawyer means cease and desist now or we file suit by the end of the day. He says he can get this taken care of in a couple of hours.


Not only that, copyright is automatic. Registering it does give it more legal weight, though, if there is question on who owns the copyright. A site may claim that you relinquish copyright of any uploaded photos to them but that doesn't always make it true.
 
2014-07-22 11:22:11 AM  

LemSkroob: Zeb Hesselgresser: FirstNationalBastard: Does revenge porn involve wiping your dick on the curtains at the end?

no, the pillowcases

no, her teddy bear


Her Mustache.
 
2014-07-22 11:23:16 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Does revenge porn involve wiping your dick on the curtains at the end?

On her balled up onesie.


/what?
 
2014-07-22 11:23:42 AM  

quatchi: Meh, it's a serious enough issue but the task of eradicating revenge porn is well nigh impossible.

At some level you need to find a mechanism to make it easier for victims of this stuff to be able to issue take down orders.

Don't people who put porn online have to have some way of verifying that the people in the porn are of age or be liable for kiddie porn charges?

Consent agreements that kind of thing?

Work with that.


I actually often wondered that.
I don't even know how someone goes about setting up a completely legal porn site.  Every host I've ever worked with has all sorts of strict rules about what sort of content they will host, even if you own the domain.

It must be far easier than I've ever really researched, considering how much of it is out there.  And on that note, both things likely explain why things like "consent agreements" are a laughable concept in those circles.

And it also explains how if something makes it out there, it stays out there.  There are just SO many ways it will be passed, shared, copied, or otherwise duplicated.
 
2014-07-22 11:25:10 AM  
Really, y'all? You're going with "It's these exhibitionists fault their private pictures are being put online so they can be called terrible things"?

Sure, some people take pictures of themselves naked for public display, but that's not everyone who does. They can take pictures of themselves if they want to, and that's a private thing. Do you also think that a woman who puts on sexy underwear for her boyfriend or husband is the exact same thing as a stripper? And even the ones who do mean for their pictures to be public don't deserve to be ridiculed for it.
 
2014-07-22 11:25:22 AM  
FTA: It took me two days and about six hours to get the photos down. First, I had to register the images with the U.S. Copyright Office for $35

Damn, too bad he went to so much trouble for something that doesn't exist.
 
2014-07-22 11:26:34 AM  

durbnpoisn: quatchi: Meh, it's a serious enough issue but the task of eradicating revenge porn is well nigh impossible.

At some level you need to find a mechanism to make it easier for victims of this stuff to be able to issue take down orders.

Don't people who put porn online have to have some way of verifying that the people in the porn are of age or be liable for kiddie porn charges?

Consent agreements that kind of thing?

Work with that.

I actually often wondered that.
I don't even know how someone goes about setting up a completely legal porn site.  Every host I've ever worked with has all sorts of strict rules about what sort of content they will host, even if you own the domain.

It must be far easier than I've ever really researched, considering how much of it is out there.  And on that note, both things likely explain why things like "consent agreements" are a laughable concept in those circles.

And it also explains how if something makes it out there, it stays out there.  There are just SO many ways it will be passed, shared, copied, or otherwise duplicated.


No.  It's very loose.  They allow anything to be uploaded by a third party and they are not necessarily held liable as long as they show they have "measures" in place.  Usually, as long as it's not obvious child porn, they won't take it down unless it is complained about.

Their "safety" is that they are simply and aggregator site and have little control over the content.  They point to their policies, maybe get fined/slapped, make a change and then business as usual.

Now, "Playboy.com" and places like that, yes, they're established businesses and, for the most part, work on the up and up.  Probably 100% legit but I don't know everything about their business.
 
2014-07-22 11:27:06 AM  

Generation_D: So like a lawyer he says we need more laws.


When your only took is a hammer, every problem is a nail.

/and when that problem is porn, you definitely get the urge to nail something
 
2014-07-22 11:28:01 AM  
The can pass all the laws they want, but the Internet at the moment remains beyond policing.  If you've found a way to permanently censor a single image, China would like a word with you.

I feel bad for people in this situation, but in real terms there isn't much you can do.  Even in the example given in the article, the images still exist and can be redistributed at any time.  At this point even the boyfriend that originally posted them doesn't control them.  Even if he re-posts himself, he only needs a little bit of tradecraft to make it very difficult to identify him.
 
2014-07-22 11:28:28 AM  
So basically if I don't get naked in front of a camera it won't be an issue?
 
2014-07-22 11:31:45 AM  

cig-mkr: So basically if I don't get naked in front of a camera it won't be an issue?


Probably a good idea.


I May Be Crazy But...: Sure, some people take pictures of themselves naked for public display, but that's not everyone who does. They can take pictures of themselves if they want to, and that's a private thing. Do you also think that a woman who puts on sexy underwear for her boyfriend or husband is the exact same thing as a stripper? And even the ones who do mean for their pictures to be public don't deserve to be ridiculed for it.


Are they unaware how easily copiable digital photos are? They take the pictures (or have them taken), it is their responsibility to safeguard them. Which probably includes not letting an untrustworthy douchecanoe take naked pictures of them in the first place.

Sure, it sucks if any naked images get out into the wild, but why are you taking them (or letting them be taken) in the first place?
 
2014-07-22 11:31:58 AM  

cig-mkr: So basically if I don't get naked in front of a camera it won't be an issue?


STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM!
 
2014-07-22 11:32:18 AM  

cryinoutloud: What's the worst that can happen?


They get published with the woman's name, which a Google search reveals, and she can't get a job in the future. Or they get published with her name and identifying information, including her address, then there are lots of threats against her and she lives in fear.
 
2014-07-22 11:35:00 AM  
Women should insist on a compromising photo for every one they give. Her boyfriend/husband will be flattered she wants a picture, and if they break up, he will be less likely to show compromising pictures of her, especially if he's a wee little thing.
 
2014-07-22 11:35:09 AM  

miscreant: I believe one Canadian province passed a law making it illegal to upload compromising images of anyone without their consent, regardless of their age, and regardless of if they a) sent it to you first or b) you were the one who took the image. Of course, proving who uploaded an image is a job in itself.


---
hoping they can enforce it
 
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