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(The Week UK)   A roundup of the more insane conspiracy theories that people believe happened with the Malaysian Airlines "crash" in Ukraine   (theweek.co.uk) divider line 178
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3254 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jul 2014 at 2:24 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-21 12:38:59 PM  
Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?
 
2014-07-21 12:47:21 PM  

mrshowrules: what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?


Not Putin, that's for sure. He was making a well-publicized appearance at a conference in Brazil that day.
 
2014-07-21 12:48:08 PM  
Oh, and the planes were nearly an hour apart. Wiki probably left that out.
 
2014-07-21 12:54:58 PM  

mrshowrules: Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.


Really? That seemed the dumbest/most obvious one to me.

Pravda trying to blame NATO for something Putin himself had a hand in struck me as just another laughably unbelievable piece of Russian propaganda.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?


All airplanes have transponders that constantly call out who they are.  Anyone with the expertise to lock onto and shoot that plane down would have been able to detect that signal.

There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.
 
2014-07-21 12:57:51 PM  
It doesn't surprise me that government news outlets would put out such BS. What's scary is that the Russian people for the most part believe it.

This is isn't like the US where Fox News spreads misinformation on the Republican Party's behalf and only morons take it seriously. Instead you have the bulk of a country, a huge portion of are intelligent and well-meaning, parroting insanity.
 
2014-07-21 12:58:36 PM  
Plane was flying IRS email servers to Benghazi.
 
2014-07-21 01:02:03 PM  

quatchi: There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.


I'm perfectly willing to believe that the people operating the missile launcher didn't realize it was a commercial airliner.   That doesn't absolve them of guilt, however.
 
2014-07-21 01:24:38 PM  

Snowrise: mrshowrules: what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?

Not Putin, that's for sure. He was making a well-publicized appearance at a conference in Brazil that day.


Well obviously they were incorrect.  The point of conspiracy is they thought he was on the plane based on a rumour apparently.  Best conspiracy theories are impossible to disprove.  Nature abhor's a vacuum so if you can't offer a real narrative (why they shot at that plane), people will create false narratives.
 
2014-07-21 01:26:51 PM  

Snowrise: Oh, and the planes were nearly an hour apart. Wiki probably left that out.


One plane was 1 hour late?  Anyways, what did they people think they were shooting at?  In the absence of a official/actual narrative, they most dominant fake narrative will prevail.
 
2014-07-21 01:29:27 PM  

quatchi: mrshowrules: Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.

Really? That seemed the dumbest/most obvious one to me.

Pravda trying to blame NATO for something Putin himself had a hand in struck me as just another laughably unbelievable piece of Russian propaganda.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?

All airplanes have transponders that constantly call out who they are.  Anyone with the expertise to lock onto and shoot that plane down would have been able to detect that signal.

There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.


To what end?  Many planes were using that route, what was there objective in shooting down that one?
 
2014-07-21 01:31:00 PM  

dittybopper: quatchi: There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that the people operating the missile launcher didn't realize it was a commercial airliner.   That doesn't absolve them of guilt, however.


They must have at least known the size/speed of the aircraft.  What did they think they were shooting at?
 
2014-07-21 01:46:53 PM  
Personally, I think that's the plane that disappeared, went through a time warp and ended up in that part of Ukraine. The plane with the AIDS researchers was actually commandeered by a cadre of gay hating muslims...

...ok, I can't even get that far without shaking my head at how stupid that is. And what's scary is mine fits right in with all the others.
 
2014-07-21 01:46:56 PM  

mrshowrules: Nature abhor's a vacuum


Apparently, I'm married to Mother Nature.
 
2014-07-21 01:48:15 PM  

mrshowrules: To what end?  Many planes were using that route, what was their objective in shooting down that one?


To try to pin it on the Ukrainians. To give them a motive.

"Why would we peace-loving Russians shoot that plane down? What would be the point? Now those Ukrainians might have done it cos they thought it was Putin".

Looks pretty damned obvious to me. Not that it won't work on a lot of his own citizenry and on other folks in America-hating countries.
 
2014-07-21 01:49:17 PM  

mrshowrules: Nature abhor's a vacuum


Dogs aren't crazy about them either.
 
2014-07-21 01:49:22 PM  

SurfaceTension: Personally, I think that's the plane that disappeared, went through a time warp and ended up in that part of Ukraine. The plane with the AIDS researchers was actually commandeered by a cadre of gay hating muslims...

...ok, I can't even get that far without shaking my head at how stupid that is. And what's scary is mine fits right in with all the others.


Langoliers.
 
2014-07-21 01:55:35 PM  

mrshowrules: dittybopper: quatchi: There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that the people operating the missile launcher didn't realize it was a commercial airliner.   That doesn't absolve them of guilt, however.

They must have at least known the size/speed of the aircraft.  What did they think they were shooting at?


Speed, altitude, and heading, most definitely yes.

Maybe a vague idea of size.  Very vague.  If you've got sharp operators who are familiar with the equipment.

But a Boeing 777 isn't that different in size from a whole bunch of military aircraft, especially cargo aircraft and bombers.  The Ukrainian Air Force has a couple different aircraft that might be at that altitude and speed:  19 IL-76's, and a couple of Tu-134's.   Sure, might be 20 or even 50 feet difference here or there, but that's not the sort of thing you'll be able to tell on a missile radar system designed to be used by Russian soldiers.  You don't get a "picture" of the aircraft you're targeting.
 
2014-07-21 02:28:57 PM  
A roundup of the more insane conspiracy theories that people right-wingers believe happened with the Malaysian Airlines "crash" in Ukraine

FIFY.
 
2014-07-21 02:30:51 PM  
Pooty Poot did it.

The Pax Americana (or Pax CIA) is over. Every little or big power (anything more than a group of 2 people) will try anything they think they can get away with.

Europe is going to tell Russia and the Middle Eastern powers not to behave badly? Pttthhhttt.

We're broke. We're out.
 
2014-07-21 02:32:26 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-07-21 02:33:34 PM  
It's obvious that the US was spreading chemtrails over Russia and that the Russian Ukrainian freedom fighters heroically shot down the plane.
 
2014-07-21 02:33:37 PM  
I think Buz Aldren shot the plane down in an effort to distract the public from the 45th anniversary of the faked moon landing
 
2014-07-21 02:36:28 PM  

quatchi: All airplanes have transponders that constantly call out who they are.  Anyone with the expertise to lock onto and shoot that plane down would have been able to detect that signal.


i distinctly remember reading something about how that missile system could see transponders but couldn't pull any info other than like altitude and speed from it. and that they normally were tied to other systems that would do most of the footwork for figuring out what to shoot at
 
2014-07-21 02:38:43 PM  
It's amazing how many conspiracy theories are based on the fact that we have a ten-digit system. "OMG, some of the numbers match other numbers. What are the odds!"
 
2014-07-21 02:39:28 PM  
I'm personally leaning towards the theory that the BMX people were behind it. You don't mess with the Council Of Twelve.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-21 02:41:46 PM  

sprawl15: i distinctly remember reading something about how that missile system could see transponders but couldn't pull any info other than like altitude and speed from it. and that they normally were tied to other systems that would do most of the footwork for figuring out what to shoot at


Anyone with a proper radio receiver tuned into the transponder frequency can pick up their transponder signal. A military aircraft in that area a would NOT be broadcasting on an ICAO Transponder Frequency, but would be relying on their own bust-mode transmission IFF systems, which make it far more difficult for a SAM system command truck to identify and track their radio emissions. MH-17 was also flying in a well known commercial corridor well above the restrictions of the area as agreed by both Ukraine, Russia, and the PRD.

The SA-17 TEL/Radar model does not have the ability to identify aircraft. It's strictly an identify contact and track system to facilitate launching a semi-active radar guided missile at that target.
 
2014-07-21 02:44:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: bust-mode


now i'm imagining an antonov flashing titties out the window at an AA site and getting waved into a club
 
2014-07-21 02:45:09 PM  
As a side note, has anyone ever noticed how the POTUS and the American CIA and Military are the most incompetent jokers to ever grace the face of the earth, until something like this happens, then they become Comic Book Supervillain level masterminds capable of executing outright perfect conspiracies which leave no witnesses and no evidence behind other than a couple of people who somehow can see the "truth", in violation of every tenet of forensic and scientific investigation of the incident?
 
2014-07-21 02:47:22 PM  

hardinparamedic: sprawl15: i distinctly remember reading something about how that missile system could see transponders but couldn't pull any info other than like altitude and speed from it. and that they normally were tied to other systems that would do most of the footwork for figuring out what to shoot at

Anyone with a proper radio receiver tuned into the transponder frequency can pick up their transponder signal. A military aircraft in that area a would NOT be broadcasting on an ICAO Transponder Frequency, but would be relying on their own bust-mode transmission IFF systems, which make it far more difficult for a SAM system command truck to identify and track their radio emissions. MH-17 was also flying in a well known commercial corridor well above the restrictions of the area as agreed by both Ukraine, Russia, and the PRD.

The SA-17 TEL/Radar model does not have the ability to identify aircraft. It's strictly an identify contact and track system to facilitate launching a semi-active radar guided missile at that target.


You can just ask siri what flights are flying over you and she will tell you.
 
2014-07-21 02:50:37 PM  
I'm just amazed that anyone can genuinely believe the Putin one because it would be a blatant act of war, full stop. If the idea was that the rebels in question were pro-Kiev that's maybe plausible deniability, but Ukraine trying to shoot down Putin's plane and then frame pro-Putin rebels for it? That's too ridiculous.

It's telling that the rebel groups aren't explicitly denying it, but have instead tried to argue it's possible they're being framed and that even if they did it Ukraine is really to blame for not accepting their terms sooner and anyway it's suspicious that something that makes them look so terrible happened right when they needed international support the most.
 
2014-07-21 02:52:47 PM  
Well, duh. One of them malasians found oblammys real birf certifacaat in that madrasser in indornesia (they all look the same anyway) and was bringing it to the US to PROVE that oblammy isn't an american! What, the plane was going back to malarsia??? Well that just proves it! Oblomo's people got to him/her/it/whoever had the certificaate and he was fleeing back home! Only they shot it down to keep the secret and blamed killer clowns masquerading as "rebels" (i don't see any x-wings in the area, do you, I DON'T THINK SO!).
 
2014-07-21 02:58:35 PM  

dittybopper: mrshowrules: dittybopper: quatchi: There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that the people operating the missile launcher didn't realize it was a commercial airliner.   That doesn't absolve them of guilt, however.

They must have at least known the size/speed of the aircraft.  What did they think they were shooting at?

Speed, altitude, and heading, most definitely yes.

Maybe a vague idea of size.  Very vague.  If you've got sharp operators who are familiar with the equipment.

But a Boeing 777 isn't that different in size from a whole bunch of military aircraft, especially cargo aircraft and bombers.  The Ukrainian Air Force has a couple different aircraft that might be at that altitude and speed:  19 IL-76's, and a couple of Tu-134's.   Sure, might be 20 or even 50 feet difference here or there, but that's not the sort of thing you'll be able to tell on a missile radar system designed to be used by Russian soldiers.  You don't get a "picture" of the aircraft you're targeting.


The IL-76 is probably the most likely candidate plus I see one was actually shot down this year.  So Occam's Razor combined with Hanlon's Razor I suppose.
 
2014-07-21 02:59:16 PM  

DeaH: It's amazing how many conspiracy theories are based on the fact that we have a ten-digit system. "OMG, some of the numbers match other numbers. What are the odds!"


every second number starting with 1
 
2014-07-21 02:59:35 PM  

mrshowrules: Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?


www.militaryaircraft.de

This is what they bragged about shooting down before they deleted the tweet, after it was reported that it was a plane almost twice this size was shot down
 
2014-07-21 03:00:20 PM  

mrshowrules: quatchi: mrshowrules: Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.

Really? That seemed the dumbest/most obvious one to me.

Pravda trying to blame NATO for something Putin himself had a hand in struck me as just another laughably unbelievable piece of Russian propaganda.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?

All airplanes have transponders that constantly call out who they are.  Anyone with the expertise to lock onto and shoot that plane down would have been able to detect that signal.

There is no way the people who shot that plane down didn't know what and most likely who they were shooting at.

To what end?  Many planes were using that route, what was there objective in shooting down that one?


"Hey, Vladimir, You just captured a sophisticated air-to-ground missile system!  What are you going to do?"

"As soon as I figure out what these buttons do, I'm gonna shoot me an airplane!  Yeehaw!"

Seriously, this doesn't require anything further than some Russian-version of Cletus with a newfangled toy.

"Cmon, guys!  This baby can blow shiat right out of the sky!  We gotta check it out, man!  Whooo, here comes one now!"
 
2014-07-21 03:00:41 PM  

dittybopper: mrshowrules: Nature abhor's a vacuum

Apparently, I'm married to Mother Nature.


I'm embarrassed to say how long it actually took me to get that joke. LOL.
 
2014-07-21 03:00:57 PM  

BalugaJoe: Plane was flying IRS email servers to Benghazi.


www.reactiongifs.us
 
2014-07-21 03:02:31 PM  

mrshowrules: One plane was 1 hour late? Anyways, what did they people think they were shooting at? In the absence of a official/actual narrative, they most dominant fake narrative will prevail.


They thought it was a military cargo plane. They said so on the intercepted communications. You really don't know that?
 
2014-07-21 03:03:48 PM  

DeaH: It's amazing how many conspiracy theories are based on the fact that we have a ten-digit system. "OMG, some of the numbers match other numbers. What are the odds!"


Yep. "Oh my god, a plane with three consecutive numbers flew its maiden voyage in the month with the same numeral! What are the odds? [8.333...%]"

It's the Pigeonhole Principle: when you are using dozens of different numbers the fact that they would show up repeatedly is highly likely, especially if you ignore those elements that don't match the pattern.
 
2014-07-21 03:04:35 PM  

cretinbob: mrshowrules: Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?

[www.militaryaircraft.de image 800x533]

This is what they bragged about shooting down before they deleted the tweet, after it was reported that it was a plane almost twice this size was shot down


That's pathetic and there is no way that plane could be flying as fast as the 777 was either.  Probably the truth because no one would make a lie that stupid.
 
2014-07-21 03:06:26 PM  

Corvus: mrshowrules: One plane was 1 hour late? Anyways, what did they people think they were shooting at? In the absence of a official/actual narrative, they most dominant fake narrative will prevail.

They thought it was a military cargo plane. They said so on the intercepted communications. You really don't know that?


I was on vacation that week. I thought everyone was denying shooting it down so I assumed no one knew what the intended target was.  My bad.
 
2014-07-21 03:07:52 PM  

hardinparamedic: A military aircraft in that area a would NOT be broadcasting on an ICAO Transponder Frequency, but would be relying on their own bust-mode transmission IFF systems, which make it far more difficult for a SAM system command truck to identify and track their radio emissions.


Unless, of course, it was trying to look like a normal civilian commercial flight, something that's not unknown, and akin to a ship flying the flag of a neutral country (literally, a "false flag") in order to avoid military action.

Which is why SAM systems don't rely on that.

/Assume you mean "burst mode".
 
2014-07-21 03:07:56 PM  

Grungehamster: I'm just amazed that anyone can genuinely believe the Putin one because it would be a blatant act of war, full stop. If the idea was that the rebels in question were pro-Kiev that's maybe plausible deniability, but Ukraine trying to shoot down Putin's plane and then frame pro-Putin rebels for it? That's too ridiculous.

It's telling that the rebel groups aren't explicitly denying it, but have instead tried to argue it's possible they're being framed and that even if they did it Ukraine is really to blame for not accepting their terms sooner and anyway it's suspicious that something that makes them look so terrible happened right when they needed international support the most.


How is this not an act of war without Putin on the plane?
 
2014-07-21 03:09:04 PM  

mrshowrules: Of the conspiracy theories.  The least crazy one is that of it actually being an assassination attempt on Putin.

From wiki.

Boeing 777-200ER: length 209 feet, wingspan 199 feet, typical cruise speed 905 km/h at a cruise altitude of 35,000 ft

Il-96-300 (Putin's Plane): length 181 feet, wingspan 197 feet, typical cruise speed 860 km/h, cruise altitude (29,527 to 39,370 Ft)

Seems pretty close to me.  The question I have is, what did the people shooting the missile think they were shooting at?


An ukrainian military AN-26. This needs to be posted everywhere. This is a rebel leader bragging on VK (Russian facebook) about shooting down the plane. This was later deleted when they learned what the plane really was.

Google translated version of the text at top since I am too lazy to do it myself at the moment:

17.07.2014 17:50 (MSK) Message from the militia.
"In the area Torrez just downed plane An-26, lying somewhere in the mine" Progress. "
Also warned - do not fly in "our sky."
And here is the confirmation of the next video "ptichkopada."
Bird fell for waste heap, the residential sector is not caught. Civilians are not injured.
And also have information about the second downed aircraft, like the Su. "

 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3 A%2 F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256
 
2014-07-21 03:09:39 PM  

quatchi: mrshowrules: Nature abhor's a vacuum

Dogs aren't crazy about them either.


Dogs are a kind of nature.
 
2014-07-21 03:17:42 PM  

hinten: Grungehamster: I'm just amazed that anyone can genuinely believe the Putin one because it would be a blatant act of war, full stop. If the idea was that the rebels in question were pro-Kiev that's maybe plausible deniability, but Ukraine trying to shoot down Putin's plane and then frame pro-Putin rebels for it? That's too ridiculous.

It's telling that the rebel groups aren't explicitly denying it, but have instead tried to argue it's possible they're being framed and that even if they did it Ukraine is really to blame for not accepting their terms sooner and anyway it's suspicious that something that makes them look so terrible happened right when they needed international support the most.

How is this not an act of war without Putin on the plane?


One is the accidental shooting down of a plan, one is the intentional assassination attempt of a head of state.

Very different.  If the Russians really thought that Ukraine was trying to shoot down Putin's plane there would have already been a formal declaration of war.
 
2014-07-21 03:17:59 PM  

quatchi: mrshowrules: To what end?  Many planes were using that route, what was their objective in shooting down that one?

To try to pin it on the Ukrainians. To give them a motive.

"Why would we peace-loving Russians shoot that plane down? What would be the point? Now those Ukrainians might have done it cos they thought it was Putin".

Looks pretty damned obvious to me. Not that it won't work on a lot of his own citizenry and on other folks in America-hating countries.


I've read at least one blog linked to (by my own normally rational brother) that seems to argue that the Ukraine government can't be trusted, and anyway, the US media is trying to build a narrative against Russia just like they did in Iraq.  I pointed out that all may be true, but there is still overwhelming evidence that the separatists did it and Russia needs to accept at least some of the blame for giving them the hardware.
 
2014-07-21 03:18:17 PM  

hardinparamedic: As a side note, has anyone ever noticed how the POTUS and the American CIA and Military are the most incompetent jokers to ever grace the face of the earth, until something like this happens, then they become Comic Book Supervillain level masterminds capable of executing outright perfect conspiracies which leave no witnesses and no evidence behind other than a couple of people who somehow can see the "truth", in violation of every tenet of forensic and scientific investigation of the incident?


That's all part of their genius. I mean incompetence. I... where was I?
 
2014-07-21 03:18:21 PM  

hardinparamedic: As a side note, has anyone ever noticed how the POTUS and the American CIA and Military are the most incompetent jokers to ever grace the face of the earth, until something like this happens, then they become Comic Book Supervillain level masterminds capable of executing outright perfect conspiracies which leave no witnesses and no evidence behind other than a couple of people who somehow can see the "truth", in violation of every tenet of forensic and scientific investigation of the incident?


I can't tell if you are a plant or a sheeple...
 
2014-07-21 03:21:00 PM  
The passengers of Flight MH370 were ordered to kill the passengers on Flight MH17 to save their own lives. They are now training to make chemtrail flights over middle America.
 
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