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(CBS Miami)   Four-year-old boy loved to death by two Dogs of Peace™   (miami.cbslocal.com) divider line 397
    More: Florida, Riverview, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office, Animal Services, old boys  
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10012 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2014 at 1:04 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-21 01:24:49 PM

ExpressPork: Knowing this, is it unreasonable to assume that some breeds are more inclined to be much more aggressive?


Well, a lot of "dog people" aren't known for their reasoning powers when it comes to their fur-babies.

That's mostly the problem. People who anthropomorphize another species and leave their brains at the doggie-door.

There are good owners, of course, but there are lots and lots and lots of idiots.
 
2014-07-21 01:25:17 PM

I_AM_SRC: Although, if these were pugs the end result would have been a trip to the market for some rags to wipe off the slobber so the type of dog does possibly have some factor.


FTFY
 
2014-07-21 01:25:18 PM

chewd: towatchoverme: * If you ban one breed the next worst breed will be next

oooh ooh... i nominate chows!


How about those bitey terriers?
 
2014-07-21 01:25:37 PM

towatchoverme: To save time, here's Pit Bull Fark Bingo:

* This is my pet Land Shark, Cuddles, who gives me kisses every morning and makes me scrambled eggs just the way i like them
* Punish the deed, not the breed -- which is gentle and kind and sweet as gummi bears dipped in whipped cream
* But here's a pitbull identity chart -- so there's no such breed
* Other dogs kill people, too. Like that Pomeranian and the baby the one time
* Anyway ... bad owner, not bad dog
* And if the breed exists -- and i'm not saying it does -- breed specific legislation doesn't work
* Again, a picture of Cuddles, whom i rescued from an animal shelter and who just loves children and kittens and plays the cello
* If cats were bigger they'd be illegal ... so, there ...
* If you ban one breed the next worst breed will be next until no dogs will exist anywhere, ever, you monsters
* CSB - one time Cuddles ate my neighbour's cat and we laughed and laughed and laughed
* Here's Cuddles doing trigonometry and serving soup to the homeless


This would be a big win, right here.
 
2014-07-21 01:25:59 PM

kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.


The problem is that this breed, when owned by bad owners, disproportionately kills people.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-21 01:26:04 PM

nekom: csb:  After a young boy in the area was mauled to death by dogs, my uncle was the SPCA officer sent to collect and put down the dogs.  He made the news.... the Weekly World News.  Astonishingly, the story (which was short) was actually 100% true.  No aliens or batboy or anything.


Oh great. So the Weekly World News is becoming a legitimate news source.

I suppose I should be surprised. But, it all makes a weird sort of sense... since all the other major news outlets are becoming more like the Weekly World News.

So, this is what it's like on the other side of the looking glass...
 
2014-07-21 01:26:18 PM

towatchoverme: gunther_bumpass: Seriously though.. do you really think that one or two incidents a year represent an entire breed? Even half a dozen? Out of the (very conservatively) hundreds of thousands of examples of that breed that are out there? You might be a fool.

shiat, I don't even have a dog and I know better.

"32 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2013. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 78% (25) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population."

Yeah, you really schooled me.


That means nothing without a survey of owner traits. Try again, balloon head.
 
2014-07-21 01:26:24 PM

AntonChigger: How many attacks were there overall?  Its an important piece of information because part of the reason pit bulls make up a large portion of the fatalities is due to how strong they are.  It could be that they attack less often than some other breeds, but due to how strong they are when they attack it results in far more serious injury.


You realize this isn't exactly an argument in your favour, right?

I'm just asking, because you appear not to have read what you wrote.
 
2014-07-21 01:26:53 PM
The precious snowflake probably did something to provoke them.  Whether its a pit bull or a chihuahua, dogs don't like to be farked with.
 
2014-07-21 01:26:58 PM

vicioushobbit: kapaso: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

I completely agree, every pit bull owner I've met has been a scumbag. Probably because non scumbags realize how dangerous pit bulls can be.

/wave

Pitt bull owner.


Opposite, I have yet to meet a bad pit bull owner or dangerous pitt.
 
2014-07-21 01:27:05 PM
How sad...poor little boy :'(

It's because of the perceived aggressiveness of the "breed" that so many bad/stupid owners seek out Pits in particular. I live in a somewhat "ghetto" area and the only dogs that exist around here are Pits and Pit mixes. A lot of people get it in theit head that they're gonna make money breeding their blue nose Pit without even knowing that most births require a c section to save the biatch.

The folks next door NEVER bring their dog inside; she sits outside barking all day and night, never getting the attention or affection she deserves. And (like many others) they say the reason they do it is because they don't want her to be nice, they just want a guard dog. Well...if the dog doesn't care about you, it's not gonna feel very inclined to protect you should something actually happen. And more often than not, you can easily appease one of those neglected dogs by simply tossing them a treat.

They have no clue what the hell they're doing so yeah, I really am inclined to believe that it has a hell of a lot more to do with the owner than it does the "breed" itself. The folks across from us have a Pit named Pete who is the sweetest thing in the world. I always tease and say he's a little lap dog stuck in a big dog body cuz he's just that affectionate. And he's wonderful with my little Corgi mix and 4 year old niece, because his owners love him and trained him well.

/I say "breed" cuz Pit Bull isn't a specific breed; people could mean any one of a number of different breeds when referring to a Pit Bull. My parents had an American Staffordshire Terrier and he was amazing. People call them Pit Bulls even though they aren't. Isn't Pit Bull Terrier the actual breed name?
 
2014-07-21 01:27:15 PM

kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.


This breed has been bred for fighting since the Roman Empire was in their heyday.  This breed was picked for both it's strength to size ratio as well as its disposition to fight.  Over centuries this training works its way into instinct.

All animals have instinct that affect their behavior despite training and environment.
 
2014-07-21 01:27:43 PM
Sounds like the uncle knew his dogs weren't very people friendly; or at least not kid friendly. Criminal negligence; possibly manslaughter.
 
2014-07-21 01:28:12 PM
Unless a dog is quite obviously something else (Doberman, Chihuahua), the media and police reports are always going to call it a Pit Bull. They're rarely experts in canine breed identification.

And all the statistics on dog bites are compiled from... media reports.

Anyone see a problem with this methodology?
 
2014-07-21 01:28:26 PM

gunther_bumpass: towatchoverme: gunther_bumpass: Seriously though.. do you really think that one or two incidents a year represent an entire breed? Even half a dozen? Out of the (very conservatively) hundreds of thousands of examples of that breed that are out there? You might be a fool.

shiat, I don't even have a dog and I know better.

"32 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2013. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 78% (25) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population."

Yeah, you really schooled me.

That means nothing without a survey of owner traits. Try again, balloon head.


We can't have contextual information that would run contrary to the narrative!  That would be rational!
 
2014-07-21 01:28:37 PM

kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.


Then, time and time again, you have it wrong.

It's a combination. A pitbull is dangerous dog if not trained properly, much more so than other breeds. 90% of dogowners have no clue how to train a dogs. It's the combination of allowing untrained owners own killing machines.

The simplest solution is to ban the breed and let it die out, there are plenty of less dangerous dogs to enjoy.
 
2014-07-21 01:28:40 PM

nekom: Weekly World News


You mean "the paper"?
 
2014-07-21 01:29:04 PM

gunther_bumpass: That means nothing without a survey of owner traits. Try again, balloon head.


Nah. I already Googled stuff for you.

I'll let you take it from here, if you're actually interested in learning anything.  Otherwise, it's just a waste of time.
 
2014-07-21 01:29:06 PM

jst3p: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

The problem is that this breed, when owned by bad owners, disproportionately kills people.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 544x530]


Golden Retriever? Off to Google I go.
 
2014-07-21 01:29:16 PM

towatchoverme: AntonChigger: How many attacks were there overall?  Its an important piece of information because part of the reason pit bulls make up a large portion of the fatalities is due to how strong they are.  It could be that they attack less often than some other breeds, but due to how strong they are when they attack it results in far more serious injury.

You realize this isn't exactly an argument in your favour, right?

I'm just asking, because you appear not to have read what you wrote.


I'm not arguing for or against anything, I'm just saying that a key piece of information required to get the whole picture is missing.
 
2014-07-21 01:29:41 PM
I don't believe in an eye for an eye or chopping off the hands of thieves but sometimes...

being mauled to death by dogs you've trained to kill would be sweet, sweet justice.
 
2014-07-21 01:30:16 PM

vicioushobbit: kapaso: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

I completely agree, every pit bull owner I've met has been a scumbag. Probably because non scumbags realize how dangerous pit bulls can be.

/wave

Pitt bull owner.


Just keep it locked up, your puppy is capable of inflicting mortal damage very quickly. My last encounter involved a neighbor getting mauled and me putting a slug in the dogs head. It was a families loving pet, of course.
 
2014-07-21 01:30:44 PM

seapig: /I say "breed" cuz Pit Bull isn't a specific breed; people could mean any one of a number of different breeds when referring to a Pit Bull. My parents had an American Staffordshire Terrier and he was amazing. People call them Pit Bulls even though they aren't. Isn't Pit Bull Terrier the actual breed name?


Pitbull is usually defined as being a American Staffordshire Terrier or American Pitbull Terrier.  Some laws will also throw in some of the other related breeds, but Saffordshire's and American Pitbull's are pretty much always defined as "pitbulls".
 
2014-07-21 01:30:52 PM

jst3p: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

The problem is that this breed, when owned by bad owners, disproportionately kills people.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 544x530]


Assuming that any kind of valid statistical methods were used to compile that data - which is a completely invalid assumption.
 
2014-07-21 01:31:03 PM
"Four-year-old boy loved to death by two Dogs of Peace™ "


static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-07-21 01:31:07 PM

seapig: How sad...poor little boy :'(

It's because of the perceived aggressiveness of the "breed" that so many bad/stupid owners seek out Pits in particular. I live in a somewhat "ghetto" area and the only dogs that exist around here are Pits and Pit mixes. A lot of people get it in theit head that they're gonna make money breeding their blue nose Pit without even knowing that most births require a c section to save the biatch.

The folks next door NEVER bring their dog inside; she sits outside barking all day and night, never getting the attention or affection she deserves. And (like many others) they say the reason they do it is because they don't want her to be nice, they just want a guard dog. Well...if the dog doesn't care about you, it's not gonna feel very inclined to protect you should something actually happen. And more often than not, you can easily appease one of those neglected dogs by simply tossing them a treat.

They have no clue what the hell they're doing so yeah, I really am inclined to believe that it has a hell of a lot more to do with the owner than it does the "breed" itself. The folks across from us have a Pit named Pete who is the sweetest thing in the world. I always tease and say he's a little lap dog stuck in a big dog body cuz he's just that affectionate. And he's wonderful with my little Corgi mix and 4 year old niece, because his owners love him and trained him well.

/I say "breed" cuz Pit Bull isn't a specific breed; people could mean any one of a number of different breeds when referring to a Pit Bull. My parents had an American Staffordshire Terrier and he was amazing. People call them Pit Bulls even though they aren't. Isn't Pit Bull Terrier the actual breed name?



Oh man.. that made way too much sense. Prepare yourself for a sea of pants-wetting replies from the brainially binary.
 
2014-07-21 01:31:26 PM
It's definitely the breed. I'm happy for you if you've managed to avoid being eaten by yours though.
 
2014-07-21 01:32:04 PM

JesseL: Giltric: Coyotes and wolves are trained by secret forest ninjas.

Dingos are trained by aborigines.

Its true.

You do realize how vanishingly rare it is for a person to be attacked by wolves, coyotes, or dingos; don't you?


And it's even rarer for people to be attacked WITHOUT PROVOCATION. A healthy wolf, coyote or dingo is generally not gonna bother with humans that don't fark with it.

More on topic, I've done a lot of fostering of "bad breeds" in the past, and the only pit I had trouble with was an ex-fighter who went berserk if he even glimpsed another dog. To us, he was the sweetest damn thing on the planet, but because .some scumbags trained him to violently hate other dogs, he had to be put down. And I sincerely wish those scumbags had their tiny, shriveled dicks cut off with a rusty hacksaw.

Dozens of pits have passed through my house over the years. Two of them stayed (although both have since passed on), and were among the most loving pets I've ever had. People who blame the breed are absolute dipshiats.
 
2014-07-21 01:32:31 PM

Saborlas: I'd like to know more about the animal RAISING these dogs. Dogs tend to have to be trained to attack people without provocation, and most animals put up with a fair amount of provocation from small children due to instinctively knowing that they're little kids.


That's what people like you will never understand. Pit bulls can't be controlled. You can raise them with love and kindness, but some day they *could* turn on you, your child or your other pet. They were originally bred that way. It's in their nature. If you own one, you're an idiot.
 
2014-07-21 01:32:41 PM

AntonChigger: How many attacks were there overall? Its an important piece of information because part of the reason pit bulls make up a large portion of the fatalities is due to how strong they are. It could be that they attack less often than some other breeds, but due to how strong they are when they attack it results in far more serious injury.


Assuming you're right, what difference does that make? Some dogs kill people, and if the 2013 stats above are correct, most such deaths are caused by Pit Bulls, possibly encouraged by douchebag owners.  We'd be saying essentially the same thing if a Chihuahuas were getting stuck in kids' throats, choking them to death.
 
2014-07-21 01:33:13 PM

towatchoverme: You'll see a Fark Independent TM admit Climate Change may be man-made before convincing Pit Bull apologists the breed may be a tad kill-y.


I don't see one person in this thread denying that pit bull could kill a person, and quite easily.  What the "pit bull apologists" are saying, and what you seem to deny is that a dog can be trained to be prone to aggression towards others (people or animals) or they can be trained to behave and be gentle.  Hell, if I didn't go out of my way to tell people NOT to approach my dog (who was abandoned and abused and is prone to resource guarding behavior, plus being old and cranky) I'm sure he'd have bitten someone by now.  He's a chi mix so I don't think it would be deadly, but it's the responsibility of the owner to keep the "kill-y" behavior in check, and it is possible to do so.

I also happen to live in a neighborhood with a prevalence of assholes who have a good time provoking dogs.  When a dog growls or barks at them they laugh and growl back or stomp their feet and scream "come at me bro" HAHAHAHA. Guess who will be screaming about the danger of dogs when their faces get ripped off.

Your strawmen are pretting f-ing weak if you think just because we don't want a breed exterminated that we don't think it could be dangerous.
 
2014-07-21 01:33:30 PM

JesseL: Unless a dog is quite obviously something else (Doberman, Chihuahua), the media and police reports are always going to call it a Pit Bull. They're rarely experts in canine breed identification.

And all the statistics on dog bites are compiled from... media reports.


Really? Because where I live anyone that reports a dog bite has to fill out paperwork for the county. I think you're making this up.
 
2014-07-21 01:33:36 PM

scottydoesntknow: //Thinks chihuahuas are much bigger assholes, they just can't reach your throat on most occasions


If chihuahuas were the size and strength of pit bulls, chihuahua maulings would probably eclipse any other breed. Farking little assholes.
 
2014-07-21 01:34:44 PM
My brother brought his pit to a family gathering without letting anyone know he was planning to (giving us no ability to request he leave it at home). In his mind the dog was going to be running free while the kids were around playing. In reality he was forced to hold the leash all day. Kept telling stories about how great the dog was. How they went to some concert festival and how the dog actually took a protective stance over some kids who were being ignored by their parents.

That's great bro, but every dog is a great dog up until the point that it isn't. And when pits aren't anymore they have a habit of killing far more often than other dogs. Leave her at home next time.
 
2014-07-21 01:35:05 PM

scottydoesntknow: Soooo who let the dogs out (woof, woof, woof, woof)?

Seriously though, the story jumps from "Billy Frederick Sr., Logan's uncle, put the dogs in crates just before the boy arrived" to "The adults heard screaming and discovered that the boy was not in the house, Carter said" and then "Frederick immediately put the dogs in crates again"


This is exactly what confuses me. HOW did the dogs get out? Either them are some smart pit bulls who figured out how to unlock the cages or uncle did a piss-poor job locking them up. So many questions.

Look, all dogs have the potential to be aggressive and attack if the right sort of circumstances arise. We had a Lab for about 7 years before I had my first kid and despite the fact he was the gentlest dog and had never shown aggression, I never left the kid in the room with him alone. You simply cannot leave kids and dogs unattended together -  I realize they thought the dogs were locked up but still...all the adults wandered into another room and left the kid alone?
 
2014-07-21 01:35:11 PM
Why wasn't anybody watching  the boy?  Why was he left alone?  How did he get outside?  Who let the dogs out of their crates?
 
2014-07-21 01:35:13 PM

JDAT: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

This breed has been bred for fighting since the Roman Empire was in their heyday.  This breed was picked for both it's strength to size ratio as well as its disposition to fight.  Over centuries this training works its way into instinct.

All animals have instinct that affect their behavior despite training and environment.


And when the pack leader is not present they will fall back onto their instinct. If we require certain breeds to have 24/7 presence of their law abiding owner, this problem goes away.
 
2014-07-21 01:35:52 PM

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Pitbulls are a weapon and therefore protected under the Second Amendment.



Seriously.  This reminds me so much of the Second Amendment stuff.

The argument is as follows:

[guns/pit bulls] aren't inherently bad
It's irresponsible owners of [guns/pit bulls] that are the problem
So quit talking about how [guns/pit bulls] are dangerous because, even though they do kill a hell of a lot of people, it's really their irresponsible owner's fault at the end of the day.
Sorry about your dead loved one - my "right" to own unregulated [pit bulls / gun] ownership trumps public safety.
 
2014-07-21 01:36:03 PM

pat34us: jst3p: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

The problem is that this breed, when owned by bad owners, disproportionately kills people.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 544x530]

Golden Retriever? Off to Google I go.


Here's one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dog-killed-2-month-old-baby -r ipped-child-legs-father-slept-room-police-article-1.1065711
 
2014-07-21 01:36:21 PM

pat34us: Opposite, I have yet to meet a bad pit bull owner or dangerous pitt.


Come walk around my neighborhood in NE Philly and you'll meet plenty of both. Tough guys like to parade around with their Pits so they can feel tough.
 
2014-07-21 01:36:25 PM

Ambitwistor: But daschunds bite more, therefore pit bulls aren't dangerous!  Blame the owner, not the breed!

Or so I have been assured on Facebook.



Some of the meanest most vicious dogs I have ever met were chihuahuas and daschhunds, no joke.

However as a dog lover (not owner at moment-just lost one to cancer) I will never own a pit bull or a chow because I know better.  Heck one of my last dog's best friend was a pit and it was a great dog, But I still would never trust the thing to not tear a kid's neck open.  That's just how they are.
 
2014-07-21 01:36:47 PM

Target Builder: And you can't exclude the breed entirely - pit bulls were bred to be extremely efficient at killing mammals about the size of a small child.


Americans really have gotten fat. Our small children are the size of European black bears.
 
2014-07-21 01:36:53 PM
Darwin approves. Little idiot decided to play with the caged, cuddly balls of muscle and snarling teeth and removed himself from the gene pool. I put this on the parents.
 
2014-07-21 01:37:17 PM

Tricky Chicken: It is all bred into the breeds.  If you have a border collie (extremely smart and trainable dogs) and you also have very small children, you are quite likely to wind up with a bitten child if you aren't careful.  The border collie tries to herd the children instinctively.  Children are dumb snd don't know that the doggie is trying to keep them in a safe area.  First the dog barks and the kid runs the wrong way.  Then the dog nips at the lower legs like it would a sheep.  Now you have a bad doggie for just doing what it was bred to do. But the kid just gets nipped in the leg.


I knew someone who killed her border collie puppy because of this behaviour. It didn't even nip at their child, it nipped at someone jogging by. She did not even consider giving her away, she immediately had her killed. Or in her words (which infuriated me even more), "helped her to sleep".

This woman is a sociopathic slimeball monster who later abandoned her own child.

Some people should just not own dogs.
 
2014-07-21 01:37:17 PM

Cold_Sassy: Why wasn't anybody watching  the boy?  Why was he left alone?  How did he get outside?  Who let the dogs out of their crates?


The Baha Men, duh.
 
2014-07-21 01:37:32 PM

bikkurikun: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

Then, time and time again, you have it wrong.

It's a combination. A pitbull is dangerous dog if not trained properly, much more so than other breeds. 90% of dogowners have no clue how to train a dogs. It's the combination of allowing untrained owners own killing machines.

The simplest solution is to ban the breed and let it die out, there are plenty of less dangerous dogs to enjoy.


I propose we ban everyone who thinks it is a good idea to ban something.
 
2014-07-21 01:37:38 PM

rkiller1: AntonChigger: How many attacks were there overall? Its an important piece of information because part of the reason pit bulls make up a large portion of the fatalities is due to how strong they are. It could be that they attack less often than some other breeds, but due to how strong they are when they attack it results in far more serious injury.

Assuming you're right, what difference does that make? Some dogs kill people, and if the 2013 stats above are correct, most such deaths are caused by Pit Bulls, possibly encouraged by douchebag owners.  We'd be saying essentially the same thing if a Chihuahuas were getting stuck in kids' throats, choking them to death.


The point is that any large dogs can kill a person.  It used to be dobermans then german shepherds then rottweilers now it's pits that everyone is afraid of.  Next it'll be wolfhounds or something.
 
2014-07-21 01:38:13 PM
I_AM_SRC: Although, if these were pugs the end result would have been a trip to the doctor for some stitches so the type of dog does possibly have some factor.

From excessive licking, of course.
 
2014-07-21 01:38:14 PM
Outlaw all pure-bred dogs. After 15 years of mixed breeds we'll be back at base level dog, then we can start working towards breeds again. Might get rid of all the genetic ailments for awhile too.
 
2014-07-21 01:38:19 PM

jst3p: kdawg7736: Did not read the article, but I will say this time and time again.

It is the owner, not the breed.

The problem is that this breed, when owned by bad owners, disproportionately kills people.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 544x530]


Because they've been bred to be strong, and cowards train them to fight, or 'guard', or otherwise be over-aggressive.

Why don't we ban steak knives? I mean, they're far deadlier than butter knives, right?
 
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