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(Telegram)   How many civil engineers does it take to redesign a 19th Century wooden footbridge to comply with 21st Century laws?   (telegram.com) divider line 42
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10384 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2014 at 2:15 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



42 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-07-20 01:58:24 PM
0.  Everyone knows civil engineers are just project managers.
 
2014-07-20 02:20:10 PM
img.fark.net

It says (1).
 
2014-07-20 02:25:51 PM
FTA: "The goal of the design was to preserve the aesthetics of the old bridges in a structure that met modern engineering and safety standards," he said.

www.telegram.com

I don't think they succeeded.
 
2014-07-20 02:27:34 PM
Not trying to thread-jack here, but can anyone tell me why I'm not seeing graphics such as the news source and 'tags' (ironic, Florida, amusing and such) and also why not only the graphics don't display, but none of the inline links are 'clickable' and all pictures posted inline are just blank boxes with the typical 'broken image' icon in the upper-left.  Just started happening this morning.  Nothing has changed on my end.

/that I'm ware of.
 
2014-07-20 02:37:10 PM
"The rotting old bridge, built in 1972 based on a historic design dating back to the 19th century "

So not really 19th century, just a rotten old bridge.
 
2014-07-20 02:39:12 PM

2wolves: [img.fark.net image 850x45]

It says (1).


Begs to differ.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-20 02:41:08 PM
SOONG: Oh, well. All right, that's enough. Sit down. (he inspects a plant) Beautiful, beautiful. You know, I've been able to keep track of you from time to time. You've become something of a celebrity in cybernetic circles. Data, why Starfleet?
DATA: Sir?
SOONG: I gave you the ability to choose whatever you wanted. To do whatever you wanted. Why Starfleet?
DATA: It was Starfleet officers who rescued me.
SOONG: Ah. So you decided to emulate your emancipators, huh? How disappointing.
DATA: What choice of vocation would have met with your approval, sir?
SOONG: Well, I often hoped you might become a scientist. Perhaps even a cyberneticist.
DATA: To follow in your footsteps, as it were?
SOONG: I see nothing wrong with that.
DATA: May I ask you a question, sir?
SOONG: Certainly. Anything you like.
DATA: Why did you create me?
SOONG: Why does a painter paint? Why does a boxer box? You know what Michelangelo used to say? That the sculptures he made were already there before he started, hidden in the marble. All he needed to do was remove the unneeded bits. It wasn't quite that easy with you, Data. But the need to do it, my need to do it, was no different than Michelangelo's need. Now let me ask you a question. Why are humans so fascinated by old things?
DATA: Old things?
SOONG: Old buildings, churches, walls, ancient things, antique things, tables, clocks, knick knacks. Why? Why, why?
DATA: There are many possible explanations.
SOONG: If you brought a Noophian to Earth, he'd probably look around and say, tear that old village down, it's hanging in rags. Build me something new, something efficient. But to a human, that old house, that ancient wall, it's a shrine, something to be cherished. Again, I ask you, why?
DATA: Perhaps, for humans, old things represent a tie to the past.
SOONG: What's so important about the past? People got sick, they needed money. Why tie yourself to that?
DATA: Humans are mortal. They seem to need a sense of continuity.
SOONG: Ah hah!! Why?
DATA: To give their lives meaning. A sense of purpose.
SOONG: And this continuity, does it only run one way, backwards, to the past?
DATA: I suppose it is a factor in the human desire to procreate.
SOONG: So you believe that having children gives humans a sense of immortality, do you?
DATA: It is a reasonable explanation to your query, sir.
SOONG: And to yours as well, Data.
 
2014-07-20 02:41:19 PM

drxym: "The rotting old bridge, built in 1972 based on a historic design dating back to the 19th century "

So not really 19th century, just a rotten old bridge.


Yeah, it sounds like the ax that's been in my family for five generations...we've replaced the handle 4 times and the head 3 but its an heirloom.
 
2014-07-20 02:48:10 PM
now it will be a 21 century bridge where a 19 century bridge once stood...
 
2014-07-20 02:57:37 PM

bullsballs: now it will be a 21 century bridge where a 19

20th century bridge once stood...

FTFY
 
2014-07-20 02:59:46 PM
Journalists should be careful in their interviews because woodshop teachers are not very bright.

The headline and TFA only talk about wood

"fabrication of the new bridge by students at Worcester Technical High School is set to begin at the school's large carpentry shop in early September."

The bridge itself is called the "Iron Bridge" because its structure is iron with maybe some wood for decking and railings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Worcester+Elm+Park+bridge+%28iron+OR +w ood%29

There is no mention of who is making the bridge's essence - the iron parts.

Did the iron really need to be replaced? If not new wood could have been installed as had been done ever since the bridge was first built.
 
2014-07-20 03:03:38 PM

HairBolus: The bridge itself is called the "Iron Bridge" because its structure is iron with maybe some wood for decking and railings.


Wrong bridge. See TFA pic.
 
2014-07-20 03:08:27 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: SOONG: Oh, well. All right, that's enough. Sit down. (he inspects a plant) Beautiful, beautiful. You know, I've been able to keep track of you from time to time. You've become something of a celebrity in cybernetic circles. Data, why Starfleet?
DATA: Sir?
SOONG: I gave you the ability to choose whatever you wanted. To do whatever you wanted. Why Starfleet?
DATA: It was Starfleet officers who rescued me.
SOONG: Ah. So you decided to emulate your emancipators, huh? How disappointing.
DATA: What choice of vocation would have met with your approval, sir?
SOONG: Well, I often hoped you might become a scientist. Perhaps even a cyberneticist.
DATA: To follow in your footsteps, as it were?
SOONG: I see nothing wrong with that.
DATA: May I ask you a question, sir?
SOONG: Certainly. Anything you like.
DATA: Why did you create me?
SOONG: Why does a painter paint? Why does a boxer box? You know what Michelangelo used to say? That the sculptures he made were already there before he started, hidden in the marble. All he needed to do was remove the unneeded bits. It wasn't quite that easy with you, Data. But the need to do it, my need to do it, was no different than Michelangelo's need. Now let me ask you a question. Why are humans so fascinated by old things?
DATA: Old things?
SOONG: Old buildings, churches, walls, ancient things, antique things, tables, clocks, knick knacks. Why? Why, why?
DATA: There are many possible explanations.
SOONG: If you brought a Noophian to Earth, he'd probably look around and say, tear that old village down, it's hanging in rags. Build me something new, something efficient. But to a human, that old house, that ancient wall, it's a shrine, something to be cherished. Again, I ask you, why?
DATA: Perhaps, for humans, old things represent a tie to the past.
SOONG: What's so important about the past? People got sick, they needed money. Why tie yourself to that?
DATA: Humans are mortal. They seem to need a sense of continuity.
SOONG: Ah hah!! Why?
DATA: To give their lives meaning. A sense of purpose.
SOONG: And this continuity, does it only run one way, backwards, to the past?
DATA: I suppose it is a factor in the human desire to procreate.
SOONG: So you believe that having children gives humans a sense of immortality, do you?
DATA: It is a reasonable explanation to your query, sir.
SOONG: And to yours as well, Data.


I always thought Soong was kind of an a-hole in that exchange. He says Data's choice to "emulate his emancipators" is "disappointing." But what he goes on to say is essentially "I'm disappointed you didn't want to be me." He's not disappointed that Data didn't make a wholly free choice uncluttered by what might be called "sentimentalism." He's disappointed that the sentimentalism didn't go his way. And he passive-aggressively takes that out on Data.

/also, Data was incapable of sentimentalism when he made that choice, so the explanation doesn't make a lot of sense either. I cannot think of a purely logic-driven reason why Data would choose his profession based on "emulat[ing] his emancipators," so either it's a flaw in the writing, or Data's evolution away from pure logic began a lot earlier than otherwise portrayed.
 
2014-07-20 03:08:55 PM
I thought the trend nowadays was to just set the laws back to the 19th Century.
 
2014-07-20 03:11:04 PM

Muta: FTA: "The goal of the design was to preserve the aesthetics of the old bridges in a structure that met modern engineering and safety standards," he said.



I don't think they succeeded.


It's not so bad. Where it fails visually is the safety caging on the rails. Otherwise it's a reasonable compromise between the original form and modern function.
 
2014-07-20 03:11:41 PM
Concrete will last longer.
 
2014-07-20 03:20:51 PM

buzzcut73: drxym: "The rotting old bridge, built in 1972 based on a historic design dating back to the 19th century "

So not really 19th century, just a rotten old bridge.

Yeah, it sounds like the ax that's been in my family for five generations...we've replaced the handle 4 times and the head 3 but its an heirloom.


Yeah I read the article expecting outrage over destroying something with actual historic value.  Instead ornamental bridge in recreation area, that has been replaced every 40 years being replaced, with one everyone can use.  City saves money by having students do the grunt work.  Nothing dastardly going on here.
 
2014-07-20 03:25:39 PM
Is this like typical Engineering Schools where the focus is primarily math, then when they actually try a design project, it looks like a 3rd grader's first attempt?

It's akin to the way residents are hazed with horrific hours, engineering students suffer through horrific math to prove they're capable of technical understanding; it doesn't make them better engineers, that happens on the job at the companies expense.
 
2014-07-20 03:26:15 PM
If you want it done right get someone who only has a GED and 15 years of hands on construction experience.
 
2014-07-20 03:36:46 PM
forum.tt-hardware.com
 
2014-07-20 03:36:53 PM
Probably just one actual PE, but since they are using college students and not PE's, we'll never know.
 
2014-07-20 03:46:00 PM

Slam1263: Concrete will last longer.


Not if it's reinforced with steel.
 
2014-07-20 03:54:34 PM
"redesign a 19th Century wooden footbridge"

A wooden one... except for all those metal supports and rivets?
 
2014-07-20 03:55:06 PM
Everything breaks. Design it so it lasts a long time and can be replaced as needed.
 
2014-07-20 04:08:51 PM

nanim: "redesign a 19th Century wooden footbridge"

A wooden one... except for all those metal supports and rivets?


And that was a replacement made in the 1970s.

Other than that, yeah, totally a 19th-century wooden footbridge.
 
2014-07-20 04:16:35 PM

WelldeadLink: [forum.tt-hardware.com image 800x600]


satya1232010.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-20 04:21:19 PM

buzzcut73: drxym: "The rotting old bridge, built in 1972 based on a historic design dating back to the 19th century "

So not really 19th century, just a rotten old bridge.

Yeah, it sounds like the ax that's been in my family for five generations...we've replaced the handle 4 times and the head 3 but its an heirloom.


That's a more modern, and perhaps more succinct, form of the Ship of Theseus.

/Think I personally encountered Trigger's Broom first; then, my Grandfather's Axe in Pratchett's The Fifth Elephant.
 
2014-07-20 04:26:11 PM
Probably cheaper to demo the whole thing and make a replica that looks like the first one. Retrofitting is crazy expensive.
 
2014-07-20 05:27:59 PM
One. One CE with a can of camp fuel and a cigarette lighter.

Why camp fuel? Heavier than gasoline, won't result in a surprise vapor ball. Or kerosine or diesel, if you've got it handy.
 
2014-07-20 05:41:19 PM

Brontes: 0.  Everyone knows civil engineers are just project managers.


It is zero but that's because bridges are designed by structural engineerings.
 
2014-07-20 06:11:53 PM

Tom_Slick: Yeah I read the article expecting outrage over destroying something with actual historic value. Instead ornamental bridge in recreation area, that has been replaced every 40 years being replaced, with one everyone can use. City saves money by having students do the grunt work. Nothing dastardly going on here.


Article is from the "Torygraph": local government is doing something well and cheaply (and also Change!) which runs counter to their world view.  So bridge much be wrong.  QED.
 
2014-07-20 06:35:28 PM
AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe
Not trying to thread-jack here, but can anyone tell me why I'm not seeing graphics such as the news source and 'tags' (ironic, Florida, amusing and such) and also why not only the graphics don't display, but none of the inline links are 'clickable' and all pictures posted inline are just blank boxes with the typical 'broken image' icon in the upper-left. Just started happening this morning. Nothing has changed on my end.


Sounds like you're blocking image from img.fark.net.
In descending order of likeliness:

Most likely reason (at least with my browser) is right-clicking an image and accidentally selecting "block images from.." instead of e.g. "save image as".

Next likely is adblocking img.fark.net either by accident like above or because a filter rule changed.

Also possible is that img.fark.net is blocked by IP/name on the name service level (e.g. adblocking via the hosts file)
 
2014-07-20 07:01:44 PM

brimed03: Kumana Wanalaia: SOONG: Oh, well. All right, that's enough. Sit down. (he inspects a plant) Beautiful, beautiful. You know, I've been able to keep track of you from time to time. You've become something of a celebrity in cybernetic circles. Data, why Starfleet?
...
I always thought Soong was kind of an a-hole in that exchange. He says Data's choice to "emulate his emancipators" is "disappointing." But what he goes on to say is essentially "I'm disappointed you didn't want to be me." He's not disappointed that Data didn't make a wholly free choice uncluttered by what might be called "sentimentalism." He's disappointed that the sentimentalism didn't go his way. And he passive-aggressively takes that out on Data.

/also, Data was incapable of sentimentalism when he made that choice, so the explanation doesn't make a lot of sense either. I cannot think of a purely logic-driven reason why Data would choose his profession based on "emulat[ing] his emancipators," so either it's a flaw in the writing, or Data's evolution away from pure logic began a lot earlier than otherwise portrayed.


Before the rights of artificial life forms were codified by Starfleet JAG Philippa Louvois and Captain Jean-Luc Picard in 2365, the only two career options available to androids were Starfleet officer and bender.

/Personally, I think Data made the right choice. Lore would have made a decent bender, though.
 
2014-07-20 07:04:19 PM
Given that this is literally a varsity sport with a national league managed by civil engineering departments and the national Civil Engineering guild, I would guess you can probably get as many CivE's as you want in on it.

I am not even slightly kidding.
 
2014-07-20 07:37:34 PM
I walk around that park every morning.

/Wondered where the bridge went...
 
2014-07-20 08:03:43 PM

HairBolus: Journalists should be careful in their interviews because woodshop teachers are not very bright.

The headline and TFA only talk about wood

"fabrication of the new bridge by students at Worcester Technical High School is set to begin at the school's large carpentry shop in early September."

The bridge itself is called the "Iron Bridge" because its structure is iron with maybe some wood for decking and railings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Worcester+Elm+Park+bridge+%28iron+OR +w ood%29

There is no mention of who is making the bridge's essence - the iron parts.

Did the iron really need to be replaced? If not new wood could have been installed as had been done ever since the bridge was first built.


Are you blind?  I followed your link to wikipedia which has a picture of the "Iron Bridge", which is a completely different bridge that looks, other than the basic bridgey sort of shape, nothing like the one in TFA.
 
2014-07-20 08:35:56 PM

Jim_Callahan: Given that this is literally a varsity sport with a national league managed by civil engineering departments and the national Civil Engineering guild, I would guess you can probably get as many CivE's as you want in on it.

I am not even slightly kidding.


It's fun too.  Next year will be my third and last year competing.

There are teams (not ours) that can slap together a hundred pound bridge in five or six minutes that holds 2,500 pounds.

We're more in the ten minute range with a 250 pound bridge.
 
2014-07-20 09:07:16 PM
The bridge is easy, it is trying to figure out how to put a waste water system through the middle of it that is hard.
 
2014-07-20 09:21:23 PM

Frederf: Probably cheaper to demo the whole thing and make a replica that looks like the first one. Retrofitting is crazy expensive.


After I read the article, it turns out, that is exactly what they are doing.  Only the new one is less steep for wheelchair bound folks, and trying to not block people from ice skating under it.
 
2014-07-20 09:46:36 PM
There was a doctor, an engineer, and a politician that went out golfing every week.  Each week they always had to try and "one better" the others.  One week, they got to arguing over who had the smartest dog.  At the 19th hole, they agreed to a wager and to bring their dogs to the course the next week for a competition between the dogs.

The day comes and they are each there with their dogs.  The doctor says that he will go first, so he addresses his dog.

"Stethoscope! Fetch a bag of bones from the cart and assemble a human skeleton here before us."

The dog barks and does as he was commanded.  An hour later, there was a complete and accurate human skeleton standing before them.

The engineer goes next.

"Slide Rule! Tear down that skeleton and build me a bridge that will support the three of us."

His dog barks and proceeds to build the bridge.  The three men climb onto it and it does in fact, support them.

The politician's turn was next.

"Bullshiat!  Heel!  Do your thing."

The dog screws the other two dogs, eats all the bones, and takes the rest of the day off.
 
2014-07-20 10:10:56 PM
They couldn't ask the teacher for a photo op in front of the bridge but had to Pshop him in? Or maybe he was busy.
 
2014-07-20 10:20:07 PM
Yeah. It was chopped.


img.fark.net
 
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