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(National Geographic)   Army seeks congressional approval to undo destruction of Los Angeles River, returning it to a lush belt of green carrying wastewater treatment plant outflow to the sea   (news.nationalgeographic.com) divider line 55
    More: Interesting, Los Angeles River, Los Angeles, greenbelts, Omar Brownson, urban oasis, Griffith Park, reset button, concrete slab  
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7177 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2014 at 11:17 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-20 10:07:38 AM  
Just in time for the worst drought in the history of the state.
 
2014-07-20 10:29:03 AM  
I hope this is successful. Coming from a place with rivers (Pittsburgh), L.A.'s is more like a creek.
 
2014-07-20 10:51:35 AM  
Well, you're never gonna land a space shuttle in THAT

/and where will the giant ants nest?
 
2014-07-20 11:20:43 AM  

MePod: Just in time for the worst drought in the history of the state.


It isnt the worst drought in the state's history. In fact the last 100 years have been a wetter than normal time period for California. At least you didnt blame global warming, whose models show California getting wetter.
 
2014-07-20 11:24:04 AM  
It depends. Is Obama for it? If so, it's not happening.
 
2014-07-20 11:30:05 AM  
So Terminator 2 would have looked more like Predator?
 
2014-07-20 11:30:28 AM  
It's always nice to see the CoEng. reverse the mistakes demanded of it in previous times where an ethos of "control or eliminate nature" held sway. I like to think that we're heading towards a more enlightened "work with nature" thing. Granted, this reset is still controlling nature, but at least the "eradicate" part is gone. And as more people see and enjoy greenery, the more the ethos shifts.
 
2014-07-20 11:36:20 AM  
Knowing nothing about the feasibility, this sounds like a good idea,  on a smaller scale San Antonio had at one point hemmed in the SA river to prevent flooding, but they've developed and reopened a lot of it, there are cool trails now, good restaurants popping up and you can even take a river taxi to downtown.

I don't know what police chases in movies will do without the concrete "river" though
 
2014-07-20 11:43:31 AM  
They'll regret it when that volcano erupts and Tommy Lee Jones has nowhere to divert it.

www.badmovies.org
 
2014-07-20 11:44:21 AM  

MyRandomName: MePod: Just in time for the worst drought in the history of the state.

It isnt the worst drought in the state's history. In fact the last 100 years have been a wetter than normal time period for California. At least you didnt blame global warming, whose models show California getting wetter.


Glad you got your daily quota of wrong out of the way early.
 
2014-07-20 11:54:58 AM  
oh i love that canal.
 
2014-07-20 11:56:16 AM  
www.cmgww.com
 
2014-07-20 12:08:14 PM  

CruJones: Knowing nothing about the feasibility, this sounds like a good idea,  on a smaller scale San Antonio had at one point hemmed in the SA river to prevent flooding, but they've developed and reopened a lot of it, there are cool trails now, good restaurants popping up and you can even take a river taxi to downtown.

I don't know what police chases in movies will do without the concrete "river" though


They'll have to use the freeway

Oh wait, aren't those usually grid locked there?
 
2014-07-20 12:13:05 PM  

MePod: Just in time for the worst drought in the history of the state.


This has nothing to do with how much rain we got or didn't get.  They're proposing to change what is now essentially a giant storm drain back into what it once was, a river, but still with the original flood control measures in place (interesting story about how the U.S Army wound up in charge of flood control, but that's a different thread).  They're not talking about adding more water to the river, just replacing some of those perfectly geometric swaths of concrete with more normal riverry stuff like, you know, rocks and dirt and trees.  I live a mile from the river where is passes through Balboa Park; it's deep enough there to paddle a kayak, egrets roost nearby, and there are fish in the water (wouldn't want to eat them though)
 
2014-07-20 12:13:10 PM  
Forget it, Omar. It's Chinatown.
 
2014-07-20 12:22:44 PM  
just do some sort of netted concrete-soil-polyurethane hybrid pebbles type plant growth stuff, try to ditch a bit of the invasive  Arundo, tell the stoners it's full of DMT, they'll come harvest it.
 
2014-07-20 12:25:25 PM  

hlehmann: MePod: Just in time for the worst drought in the history of the state.

This has nothing to do with how much rain we got or didn't get.  They're proposing to change what is now essentially a giant storm drain back into what it once was, a river, but still with the original flood control measures in place (interesting story about how the U.S Army wound up in charge of flood control, but that's a different thread).  They're not talking about adding more water to the river, just replacing some of those perfectly geometric swaths of concrete with more normal riverry stuff like, you know, rocks and dirt and trees.  I live a mile from the river where is passes through Balboa Park; it's deep enough there to paddle a kayak, egrets roost nearby, and there are fish in the water (wouldn't want to eat them though)


Yeah I realize that. I live here too. And I support this project. I'm just saying, I'm not expecting to be the reclaimed river very lush or kayak-able for a while
 
2014-07-20 12:34:41 PM  
If they restore the LA river then where will they shoot films and TV shows?

From http://thelariver.com/about/filming-on-the-river/
More than 100 films and countless scenes from television shows and commercials have been shot on the LA River. The 52 miles of concrete has been used as a movie set for car races, murders, science fiction scenes and more.  Here's a list of some of the better-known Hollywood productions filmed on the River:

Eh, doesn't even include the closing credits from Buckaroo Banzai

hilobrow.com
 
2014-07-20 12:42:11 PM  

HairBolus: If they restore the LA river then where will they shoot films and TV shows?

From http://thelariver.com/about/filming-on-the-river/
More than 100 films and countless scenes from television shows and commercials have been shot on the LA River. The 52 miles of concrete has been used as a movie set for car races, murders, science fiction scenes and more.  Here's a list of some of the better-known Hollywood productions filmed on the River:

Eh, doesn't even include the closing credits from Buckaroo Banzai

[hilobrow.com image 550x228]


9th one down.  No way they would have left that off.
 
2014-07-20 12:53:11 PM  

zjbs14: HairBolus: If they restore the LA river then where will they shoot films and TV shows?

From http://thelariver.com/about/filming-on-the-river/
More than 100 films and countless scenes from television shows and commercials have been shot on the LA River. The 52 miles of concrete has been used as a movie set for car races, murders, science fiction scenes and more.  Here's a list of some of the better-known Hollywood productions filmed on the River:

Eh, doesn't even include the closing credits from Buckaroo Banzai

[hilobrow.com image 550x228]

9th one down.  No way they would have left that off.


Repo Man?
 
2014-07-20 12:53:21 PM  

MePod: hlehmann: MePod: Just in time for the worst drought in the history of the state.

This has nothing to do with how much rain we got or didn't get.  They're proposing to change what is now essentially a giant storm drain back into what it once was, a river, but still with the original flood control measures in place (interesting story about how the U.S Army wound up in charge of flood control, but that's a different thread).  They're not talking about adding more water to the river, just replacing some of those perfectly geometric swaths of concrete with more normal riverry stuff like, you know, rocks and dirt and trees.  I live a mile from the river where is passes through Balboa Park; it's deep enough there to paddle a kayak, egrets roost nearby, and there are fish in the water (wouldn't want to eat them though)

Yeah I realize that. I live here too. And I support this project. I'm just saying, I'm not expecting to be the reclaimed river very lush or kayak-able for a while


It's a slippery slope, if they build some sort of kayak play area, pretty soon the kayakers will be suing to force there to be a navigable flow in historically navigable times.
 
2014-07-20 01:02:19 PM  
So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.
 
2014-07-20 01:07:16 PM  
In sixth grade our teacher told us to hop the fence of the L.A.river and bring back some moss, plants and water.

We were hunting planaria.

L.A. river? What was he talking about? Oh, the "wash" is actually a river? Wow.

Anyway can you imagine how much trouble a teacher would get in today for that suggestion?

Needless to say, in the sixties, everyone wanted to get into his sixth grade class.

And yes, we found our planaria.
 
2014-07-20 01:15:25 PM  

WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.




Yeah, I was shocked by the billion dollar price tag to tear up concrete.
 
2014-07-20 01:29:19 PM  
The Los Angeles "River" has not been a river for more than 70 years.  The water was dammed up years ago to slake the thirst of a growing city.  What is left is a giant concrete ditch.
 
2014-07-20 02:01:35 PM  
The concrete gutter sends all water straight to the ocean.

The river allows water to actually get back into the water table.

Rivers > Gutters in drought-y areas.
 
2014-07-20 02:04:00 PM  
This is kinda a thing across the world - they've de-channelized rivers in South Korea and other places too. A river that runs on the surface in a bed full of living things is an attraction, a place to go, a break from the concrete jungle. A lifeless river in concrete is an eyesore. Of course, you can also cover it with streets and pretend it doesn't exist if it's small enough.

I'm kinda glad we're moving away from the "turn everything to nice, clean concrete" mentality. It's a slow process but at least it's changing.
 
2014-07-20 02:04:18 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-20 02:11:19 PM  
I don't think they should actually tear out the concrete. It would have to be disposed of and cost too much money to haul away etc. I believe they should simply jackhammer the concrete with a spike to bust it up but leave it in place. The cracks and holes will fill with dirt and plants can send roots into it securely. That way we can leave the concrete there, safely control flooding and still have plants and animals move in.
 
2014-07-20 02:11:53 PM  
I would generally be in favor of this so long as the existing flood control purpose is maintained in an more environmentally favorable manner.  We can't have a wild river flowing through the area with millions under threat in case of a flood.  The property values lost if the river breached it's banks would be enormous.  I know the likelihood of this occurring is rare, but flooding can happen even in dry areas especially given El Nino is probably upon us that can dramatically increase rainfall intensity and duration for Southern California.
 
2014-07-20 02:12:09 PM  

pute kisses like a man: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x422]


And yet there was salt water in his lungs.
 
2014-07-20 02:12:43 PM  

adamatari: This is kinda a thing across the world - they've de-channelized rivers in South Korea and other places too. A river that runs on the surface in a bed full of living things is an attraction, a place to go, a break from the concrete jungle. A lifeless river in concrete is an eyesore. Of course, you can also cover it with streets and pretend it doesn't exist if it's small enough.

I'm kinda glad we're moving away from the "turn everything to nice, clean concrete" mentality. It's a slow process but at least it's changing.


Revitalizing an underground concrete entombed river as an open air, natural city feature worked wonderfully for Providence, RI's renaissance.
 
2014-07-20 02:15:27 PM  

ReapTheChaos: They'll regret it when that volcano erupts and Tommy Lee Jones has nowhere to divert it.

[www.badmovies.org image 400x200]


Ballona Creek.
 
2014-07-20 02:16:40 PM  

WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.


Yup we sure do suck up  them tax dollars,  California  on average gets about 85 cents back for every federal tax dollar paid, unlike those "Producer"  states like  Louisiana ($3.35 per dollar paid), Alabama ($3.28per dollar paid,)   New Mexico ($2.83per dollar paid,) and  Mississippi ($3.07per dollar paid,) where freedom and "pro producer policies rule! Guess they are just going to have to do without their "fair share" and let  Lib welfare state of Kommiefornia fave some more of it own hard earned dollars!
 
2014-07-20 02:19:53 PM  

WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.


i.imgur.com
http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal- go vernment/2700/
 
2014-07-20 02:20:55 PM  

adamatari: Of course, you can also cover it with streets and pretend it doesn't exist if it's small enough.


That was the origin of (enclosed) sewers. It used to be that all the rivers/streams within a city were horribly polluted because they were used as sewers - that was where you dumped your chamber pots and horse shiat collected off the streets.

London used to have a lot of waterways emptying into the Thames. All have been enclosed and most are official sewers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_sewerage_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_rivers_of_London
 
2014-07-20 02:24:24 PM  

Azlefty: WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.

Yup we sure do suck up  them tax dollars,  California  on average gets about 85 cents back for every federal tax dollar paid, unlike those "Producer"  states like  Louisiana ($3.35 per dollar paid), Alabama ($3.28per dollar paid,)   New Mexico ($2.83per dollar paid,) and  Mississippi ($3.07per dollar paid,) where freedom and "pro producer policies rule! Guess they are just going to have to do without their "fair share" and let  Lib welfare state of Kommiefornia fave some more of it own hard earned dollars!


The south hates the black guy in the White House... but he better send them their welfare checks.
 
2014-07-20 02:41:53 PM  
grolschfilmworks.com

Intense.
 
2014-07-20 02:51:52 PM  
Some parts of the river are already open for kayaking and assorted water sports.
 
2014-07-20 02:57:55 PM  

scruffy1: Some parts of the river are already open for kayaking and assorted water sports.


Near Silverlake is my guess.
 
2014-07-20 03:33:14 PM  
Since I live here and drive along the LA river on a daily basis, I'm fascinated by this idea, mostly because I'm wondering where exactly they think they're going to put the "LA river". They think they can just jackhammer up and remove the concrete--yeah, in some places I guess that's feasible; but where the river runs through downtown and extremely built-up areas like Compton, the flood-control channel is going to have to stay.

So it sounds nice, but what it really means is: in a couple places they're going to do some local restoration, but that's about it.
 
2014-07-20 04:06:40 PM  
Something like this was done to a river that runs through Seoul, Korea.  The river was covered by streets and concrete.  They uncovered it and made walking paths and parks.  There are still concrete walls along the sides in the areas I saw ans I suppose they have to close it off when they get torrential rains from a typhoon.
I suppose in L.A. they would  leave the side concrete walls and bust up the concrete on the bottom.
 
2014-07-20 04:13:45 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Since I live here and drive along the LA river on a daily basis, I'm fascinated by this idea, mostly because I'm wondering where exactly they think they're going to put the "LA river". They think they can just jackhammer up and remove the concrete--yeah, in some places I guess that's feasible; but where the river runs through downtown and extremely built-up areas like Compton, the flood-control channel is going to have to stay.

So it sounds nice, but what it really means is: in a couple places they're going to do some local restoration, but that's about it.


The 22 mile beach bike path is amazingly great. Nice riding, wonderful views, good for people and good for the various businesses.

The idea of a 51 mile LA River bike path is also stupendous. In addition to the views, it will also be good for nearby businesses and even for bicycle commuters since the LA River is by definition mostly flat and level.

If it's like the greenbelt in the hellhole I now live in, it will be one of the more attractive spots to visit.

And then having 6 to 11 miles of contiguous river with soft banks! Again, where I am, the popular summer tubing river is only open to tubers for 2 miles, for kayakers for 4 miles. So six miles of river that opens to parkland in Los Angeles is incredible and of course it runs through many neighborhoods that could use any amount of green or water properties to play in.

Also, just think of how 6 - 11 miles of river lined with heavy wetland growth will revitalize Los Angeles detective fiction! All the bodies to be found! I am loving it already.
 
2014-07-20 05:01:18 PM  

olddinosaur: The Los Angeles "River" has not been a river for more than 70 years.  The water was dammed up years ago to slake the thirst of a growing city.  What is left is a giant concrete ditch.


The river never carried drinking water. It's always been a collection of runoff from the mountains when it rains. They dammed it up because during intense storms the runoff would flood the cities along the channel on its way to the ocean. Same with the San Gabriel and Santa Ana "rivers". 1938 was one of the worst.

http://www.kcet.org/socal/departures/columns/la-river/los-angeles-fl oo d-of-1938-channelization.html

cdn.cstatic.net

LA River pre-channelization

/they still will need flood-control measures, in a major storm all that water needs to go somewhere
 
2014-07-20 05:32:02 PM  

RoyBatty: WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.

[i.imgur.com image 726x873]
http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal- go vernment/2700/


why don't you show them the REAL map? The one that isn't the usual left-wing disinformation?

You know, the one that isn't just total Federal spending (military bases, public lands, etc)

freepatriot.org

/your tax dollars NOT at work
 
2014-07-20 05:38:23 PM  

peterthx: RoyBatty: WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.

[i.imgur.com image 726x873]
http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal- go vernment/2700/

why don't you show them the REAL map? The one that isn't the usual left-wing disinformation?

You know, the one that isn't just total Federal spending (military bases, public lands, etc)

[freepatriot.org image 600x358]

/your tax dollars NOT at work


And how is showing a map of spending on one of thousands of federal government programs a more accurate indicator of federal spending in each state?
 
2014-07-20 06:08:02 PM  

Cheviot: peterthx: RoyBatty: WaffleStomper: So, Cali is getting ready to suck some MORE tax dollars from the pockets of the other 49 states.  It must be an election year.

[i.imgur.com image 726x873]
http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal- go vernment/2700/

why don't you show them the REAL map? The one that isn't the usual left-wing disinformation?

You know, the one that isn't just total Federal spending (military bases, public lands, etc)

[freepatriot.org image 600x358]

/your tax dollars NOT at work

And how is showing a map of spending on one of thousands of federal government programs a more accurate indicator of federal spending in each state?


As someone who cites material from FreePatriot.org I guess he is proud of states that actively prevent their poor from receiving free federal TANF funds. How can you make the poor kowtow to their local betters if they are on the federal teat?

No wonder I have him on ignore.
 
2014-07-20 06:18:49 PM  

Clash City Farker: [grolschfilmworks.com image 617x351]

Intense.


God-damn gypsy-dildo-punk!
 
2014-07-20 07:31:43 PM  

HairBolus: No wonder I have him on ignore.


Is this supposed to be some kind of insult?

/more like a badge of honor
 
2014-07-20 07:41:34 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Since I live here and drive along the LA river on a daily basis, I'm fascinated by this idea, mostly because I'm wondering where exactly they think they're going to put the "LA river". They think they can just jackhammer up and remove the concrete--yeah, in some places I guess that's feasible; but where the river runs through downtown and extremely built-up areas like Compton, the flood-control channel is going to have to stay.

So it sounds nice, but what it really means is: in a couple places they're going to do some local restoration, but that's about it.


You can have the channel without the concrete. This has been done several places: there's a grassy slope down to a lower level that then gives way to a lower channel with a rocky bottom. The bike paths and some other improvements that won't suffer under normal flooding can go along the shore, while improvements like playgrounds have to go above. Even with the same elevation profile as the current concrete gutter you gain green space people can enjoy and a river bottom that recharges the water table rather than all running off.
 
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