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(CBS Miami)   FL GOP to judge: So I know you said the districts we drew make a mockery of the democratic process and all, but it's gonna take us... say, two years to redraw them, so we're cool using them until then right?   (miami.cbslocal.com) divider line 135
    More: Unlikely, GOP, tags, Don Gaetz, League of Women Voters, Steve Weatherford, congressional districts, absentee ballots, Common Cause  
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3990 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jul 2014 at 3:48 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-19 02:07:17 PM
So, the court found that the GOP-dominated legislature rigged the map for partisan advantage in violation of both state and federal laws, and they now want to say "well, there's no other map we can use in time...."

I have a modest proposal. Allow the map to continue to be used going forward for this election if they cannot be revised -- but as a matter of equity, with no legislator who voted in favor of the unlawful maps being eligible for state legislative office in any election using the existing maps, to at least insure they may not themselves benefit from their own impropriety.

Florida's constitution does not appear to have a "speech and debate" privilege for their legislature, and Ballotpedia indicates an amendment to give such privelege was voted down during the Reagan years.
 
2014-07-19 03:17:22 PM
I used to think the people that said the GOP is the greatest threat democracy were just being hyperbolic. Used to.
 
2014-07-19 03:52:41 PM

Peter von Nostrand: I used to think the people that said the GOP is the greatest threat democracy were just being hyperbolic. Used to.


Democracy is for stupid little people.
 
2014-07-19 03:54:49 PM

sendtodave: Peter von Nostrand: I used to think the people that said the GOP is the greatest threat democracy were just being hyperbolic. Used to.

Democracy is for stupid little people.


Hey, tell us the one about how we're a republic, not a democracy! That's always good for a diversion!
 
2014-07-19 03:55:56 PM
The gerrymandering is a travesty, yes, but this is what they get for sending a GOP majority to the statehouse in the first place.  What did they think was going to happen?

Maybe next time Florida voters will have more sense.
 
2014-07-19 03:56:38 PM
There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.
 
2014-07-19 03:57:29 PM
Ok, enough of this.

Here's what you do. Anyone can run for Congress. The people that receive the most votes win. They're representatives for all of Florida.

However, the losers? They're summarily hunted for sport in the everglades (license fees to hunt them go to the Florida education fund). Why? To discourage non-serious candidates.

/Problem solved.
 
2014-07-19 03:58:46 PM

Doc Daneeka: The gerrymandering is a travesty, yes, but this is what they get for sending a GOP majority to the statehouse in the first place.  What did they think was going to happen?

Maybe next time Florida voters will have more sense.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!
 
2014-07-19 03:59:44 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


Common sense in politics? Common sense in a post citizens united America?

Thanks for the laugh brother.
 
2014-07-19 04:02:33 PM

Kittypie070: sendtodave: Peter von Nostrand: I used to think the people that said the GOP is the greatest threat democracy were just being hyperbolic. Used to.

Democracy is for stupid little people.

Hey, tell us the one about how we're a republic, not a democracy! That's always good for a diversion!


If we were a democracy, the people would have power. Instead, rich people have power.

QED
 
2014-07-19 04:06:39 PM

Destructor: Ok, enough of this.

Here's what you do. Anyone can run for Congress. The people that receive the most votes win. They're representatives for all of Florida.

However, the losers? They're summarily hunted for sport in the everglades (license fees to hunt them go to the Florida education fund). Why? To discourage non-serious candidates.

/Problem solved.


As much as I hate politicians and our goofy system- you may have watched a few too many dystopian movies lately

How about when you are elected you turn over 75% of your wealth (including real property) and once your term in office is done you can never mention politics or your role in govt (no books no movies no interviews) on get your wealth and property back in 10% segments annually after another year of STFU
 
2014-07-19 04:07:43 PM

Doc Daneeka: The gerrymandering is a travesty, yes, but this is what they get for sending a GOP majority to the statehouse in the first place.  What did they think was going to happen?

Maybe next time Florida voters will have more sense.


Unfortunately the Alzheimer's has eaten enough holes in the brains of the average Florida voter that I expect them to continue to believe it's the 1950's and they're voting for Ike again for another decade or so.
 
2014-07-19 04:08:57 PM
You know what would solve all of this?

Philosopher kings.
 
2014-07-19 04:10:40 PM

Doc Daneeka: The gerrymandering is a travesty, yes, but this is what they get for sending a GOP majority to the statehouse in the first place.  What did they think was going to happen?

Maybe next time Florida voters will have more sense.


warosu.org
 
2014-07-19 04:18:26 PM
But Voter ID must still be enacted before the election to ensure faith in the process, amirite? People can totes get them by then.
 
2014-07-19 04:24:50 PM

sendtodave: You know what would solve all of this?

Philosopher kings.


Simmias: The senate is furious over your ideas for a Utopian state.

Allen: I guess I should never have suggested having a philosopher-king.

Simmias: Especially when you kept pointing to yourself and clearing your throat.
 
2014-07-19 04:25:17 PM

smellysocksnshoes: As much as I hate politicians and our goofy system- you may have watched a few too many dystopian movies lately


May have? :-)

smellysocksnshoes: How about when you are elected you turn over 75% of your wealth (including real property) and once your term in office is done you can never mention politics or your role in govt (no books no movies no interviews) on get your wealth and property back in 10% segments annually after another year of STFU


Your system is far better and much more practical. Which is why it will fail.

You're dealing with Florida here. Any sort of change has to be

* Visual Interesting
* Action Oriented
* and Capable of producing Emotional Moments.

You know. Like American Gladiators.
 
2014-07-19 04:27:06 PM

sendtodave: You know what would solve all of this?

Philosopher kings.


At one time, that was my career goal. After the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh episode, though, those jobs sort of dried up.
 
2014-07-19 04:33:40 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


Well, let's just contact our legislators to get those laws requiring it passed.  Easy peasy.
 
2014-07-19 04:35:59 PM

sendtodave: You know what would solve all of this?

Philosopher kings.


In all seriousness, some states would probably actually fare better if they were run by a benevolent-enough dictator.  Recent history has shown us that some places (I'm looking at you, Kansas, Florida and North Carolina) are on average just too stupid to make decisions for themselves through the democratic process.
 
2014-07-19 04:40:04 PM
Outsource it to Canada. They seem to know how to come up with electoral districts that don't look like a Rorschach Test.

img.fark.net
 
2014-07-19 04:47:55 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


If I ran the world computers would be charged with drawing all possible maps that create districts that are as compact as possible. Then a special grand jury of 100 citizens from across the state would be randomly selected sequestered and given all the variant maps to vote on wioth no toher information furnished
 
2014-07-19 04:59:08 PM
Are they suggesting that our troops are too stupid to understand why they could get a second ballot?  Troops that are from Florida, and that should know that Florida is the worst state as far as running elections goes?

We really need to switch to an algorithmic districting scheme.  A system that discriminates against minorities by coincidence sounds bad, but it's much better than a few states having a "token" minority candidate.
 
2014-07-19 05:04:51 PM

Destructor: Ok, enough of this.

Here's what you do. Anyone can run for Congress. The people that receive the most votes win. They're representatives for all of Florida.

However, the losers? They're summarily hunted for sport in the everglades (license fees to hunt them go to the Florida education fund). Why? To discourage non-serious candidates.

/Problem solved.


Given that it's the winners that write these laws, your idea would solve literally nothing.

Here's a better one. Anyone can run for election. Unlimited spending, unlimited airtime, no ballot access laws. However there's a "none of the above" option on the ballot. If that option wins over 1% of the vote, all the candidates are thrown to the alligators, and the new rep is picked at random from everyone who voted "none of the above."
 
2014-07-19 05:16:01 PM

The Name: sendtodave: You know what would solve all of this?

Philosopher kings.

In all seriousness, some states would probably actually fare better if they were run by a benevolent-enough dictator.  Recent history has shown us that some places (I'm looking at you, Kansas, Florida and North Carolina) are on average just too stupid to make decisions for themselves through the democratic process.


Some? I think most places that have a successful political structure have it by accident.
 
2014-07-19 05:18:29 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


Won't work. When all is said and done Diebold or Xe would get the contract and it'd be as bad or worse than it is now.
 
2014-07-19 05:18:32 PM

TheSopwithTurtle: Destructor: Ok, enough of this.

Here's what you do. Anyone can run for Congress. The people that receive the most votes win. They're representatives for all of Florida.

However, the losers? They're summarily hunted for sport in the everglades (license fees to hunt them go to the Florida education fund). Why? To discourage non-serious candidates.

/Problem solved.

Given that it's the winners that write these laws, your idea would solve literally nothing.

Here's a better one. Anyone can run for election. Unlimited spending, unlimited airtime, no ballot access laws. However there's a "none of the above" option on the ballot. If that option wins over 1% of the vote, all the candidates are thrown to the alligators, and the new rep is picked at random from everyone who voted "none of the above."


I like your style- that would be some good reality tv
 
2014-07-19 05:30:54 PM

EngineerAU: Outsource it to Canada. They seem to know how to come up with electoral districts that don't look like a Rorschach Test.

[img.fark.net image 800x567]


gerrymandering is not even a concept in Canada
 
2014-07-19 05:33:26 PM
Gerrymandering takes a long time.  A fair redistricting takes no time at all.  You could fairly redistrict a State in about an hour using the shortest split linealgorithm.
 
2014-07-19 05:36:30 PM

TheSopwithTurtle: Here's a better one. Anyone can run for election. Unlimited spending, unlimited airtime, no ballot access laws. However there's a "none of the above" option on the ballot. If that option wins over 1% of the vote, all the candidates are thrown to the alligators, and the new rep is picked at random from everyone who voted "none of the above."


If the voting can be by a condorcet method instead of the idiotic first-past-the-post we currently use, this would be a surprisingly effective electoral system.

/ok, the alligators might lead to a Vengeance on Varos-style situation, but we shouldn't let such a fun plan be blocked by minutia.
 
2014-07-19 05:58:42 PM
Computer drawn maps, Alligators,  etc.. all good plans, and yet we get none of them.  While I like those plans best, can Florida just revert back to an acceptable district map?

Which came first?  Dumb voters or corrupt politicians.  Which one drives the system?  Can either be fixed?
 
2014-07-19 06:01:46 PM

EngineerAU: Outsource it to Canada. They seem to know how to come up with electoral districts that don't look like a Rorschach Test.

[img.fark.net image 800x567]


Well, sure, but that's just because you don't have blacks to draw around.
 
2014-07-19 06:08:02 PM

TheSopwithTurtle: Here's a better one. Anyone can run for election. Unlimited spending, unlimited airtime, no ballot access laws. However there's a "none of the above" option on the ballot. If that option wins over 1% of the vote, all the candidates are thrown to the alligators, and the new rep is picked at random from everyone who voted "none of the above."


I'm thinking a few more of these variants, and we have a whole new bunch of items for "The Wheel Of Failure"... An extra item to add more excitement to...

The Congressional Games.
One way or another...
...they will serve the people.


(Rated R/D: Partisan Politics, Strong language,
Violence. Lots of violence.)
 
2014-07-19 06:18:18 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


No, it shouldn't.  It should be part of the process, maybe, but there should also be human input.  Such a system can disenfranchise groups of people.  There are non-gerrymandering reasons for redistricting.
 
2014-07-19 06:32:04 PM

EngineerAU: Outsource it to Canada. They seem to know how to come up with electoral districts that don't look like a Rorschach Test.

[img.fark.net image 800x567]


Why does the False Creek district get that little wedge of water that extends so far out into the inlet? Are there houseboats out there or something? Are they gerrymandering the waterfowl who are demanding equal representation despite claiming exemption from taxes?

But yeah, that's waaaay better than what you usually see in the US.
 
2014-07-19 06:34:27 PM
Remember kids, it's only wrong when Republicans do it.
 
2014-07-19 06:39:23 PM

ox45tallboy: Why does the False Creek district get that little wedge of water that extends so far out into the inlet?


They wanted to look like a shark. Sharks are cool.

And here's how the most multicultural city on Earth handles redistricting:
img.fark.net
on the other hand, this is also the city that elected Rob Ford so...
 
2014-07-19 06:40:30 PM
Wahh!  Redraw the lines- it's the only way we stand a chance!  (take your choice.)
 
2014-07-19 06:50:24 PM
The purpose of a Republican form of government is to best reflect the will of the governed, so as to ensure their consent to be governed is maintained.  This type of gerrymandering is anathema to that purpose.  Republicans are against the Republican form of government.
 
2014-07-19 06:50:34 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


You would never see a more vicious, dirty, back-room-dealing, underhanded, downright nasty fight from Congress, than them trying to prevent a national mandate for such a thing. I honestly think it would come down to reps barring themselves, armed, in their respective Capitals.
 
2014-07-19 06:54:50 PM

sendtodave: Peter von Nostrand: I used to think the people that said the GOP is the greatest threat democracy were just being hyperbolic. Used to.

Democracy is for stupid little people.


-Rand Paul?
 
2014-07-19 06:56:38 PM

mod_reright: lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.

No, it shouldn't.  It should be part of the process, maybe, but there should also be human input.  Such a system can disenfranchise groups of people.  There are non-gerrymandering reasons for redistricting.


I believe the way to do it is make all Representatives elected from the state's population at large. For instance, Florida has 27 Representatives. On election day, everyone votes for the candidate they think represents them the best, and you take the top 27 vote-getters. In this manner, ANY group of people that can churn up enough support for their cause gets a representative in Congress. Whether that's the teachers' union, the corporate bigwigs, the factory workers, the fast-food workers, even the unemployed people can get their own rep if there's enough of them.

This would solve several problems at once, not the least of which is gerrymandering. It also enables any minority group with vested interests to have a pretty good shot at getting their own rep regardless of the proximity of their homes. Sure, candidates have to have a statewide campaign, but that's not as bad as what you might think - most people are going to vote for someone relating to their job, their church, or a particular issue they feel strongly about, so they'd likely find out easily which candidate best fits their interests. Racial minorities making only single-digit percentages of the population could easily get representation in this manner.

The candidates are supposed to represent the people. Back in the olden days they were chosen to represent people on a geographical basis for practical reasons, most of which don't apply anymore. The atheist stockbroker who lives in a million dollar mansion probably doesn't have the same interests as the christian factory worker who lives in a trailer park a few miles away, and neither have much in common with the immigrant store owner that sells them their coffee each morning - but they're all supposedly represented by the same person. This needs to change.
 
2014-07-19 06:58:03 PM

bizzwire: sendtodave: Peter von Nostrand: I used to think the people that said the GOP is the greatest threat democracy were just being hyperbolic. Used to.

Democracy is for stupid little people.

-Rand Paul?


--Lemuel Gulliver
 
2014-07-19 07:00:58 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


We could use the same one that picks the NCAA Div 1 Football championship teams. Everyone loves that one!
 
2014-07-19 07:05:19 PM

lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.


Unless it's that malevolent AI we were talking about the other day.
 
2014-07-19 07:16:30 PM
I don't know why you guys are so upset with the GOP.

We should be blaming Gary and his meandering ways.

/that bastard
 
2014-07-19 07:19:37 PM

AmbassadorBooze: Computer drawn maps, Alligators,  etc.. all good plans, and yet we get none of them.  While I like those plans best, can Florida just revert back to an acceptable district map?

Which came first?  Dumb voters or corrupt politicians.  Which one drives the system?  Can either be fixed?


Yes. money. not with money involved
 
2014-07-19 07:20:44 PM

ox45tallboy: lilbjorn: There's a computer program now that can draw them in a few seconds, once the data is entered.  And it will be unbiased.  This should be required for all states.

We could use the same one that picks the NCAA Div 1 Football championship teams. Everyone loves that one!


How sad is it that we can point to that as a better system...
 
2014-07-19 07:25:43 PM

mrshowrules: Gerrymandering takes a long time.  A fair redistricting takes no time at all.  You could fairly redistrict a State in about an hour using the shortest split linealgorithm.


Democrats would fight that tooth and nail. Gerrymandering is not isolated to Repubs, it occurs whenever and wherever there is a lack of a serious opposing party. Believe me, as a repub in MD, the Dems have been pulling this shiat for decades....But since this is FARK, I'm sure you're fine with that....
 
2014-07-19 07:27:08 PM
Let the current drawn districts stand.  Just don't let anyone from the republican party run in either one of them.
Only Democratic or Independent parties can participate.  Redraw the districts and let the newly elected reps. make the finale decision on the newly drawn districts boundaries. That'll learn them!
 
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