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(LA Times)   EPA moves to block a mine worth at most a few million dollars that would destroy a salmon industry worth $1.5 billion (plus kill all the fish). Not surprisingly, the Tea Party has a problem with this   (latimes.com) divider line 272
    More: Dumbass, Bristol Bay, EPA, Alaskans, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, statutory authority, separation barrier, Alaska Natives, Clean Water Act  
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4952 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jul 2014 at 8:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-19 03:59:20 AM  
Of course they do. They aren't smart enough to understand the difference between $2 million and $1.5 billion. Words representing numbers are the Devil's work, so $2 > $1.5
 
2014-07-19 04:48:11 AM  
Think of the fish.
 
2014-07-19 05:11:10 AM  
I never thought Murkowski was so full if derp.
 
2014-07-19 06:19:46 AM  
Brought to you by The Tea Party - a wholly owned subsidiary of Koch Industries.
 
2014-07-19 08:25:31 AM  
But it would stick it to the libs to pollute a river, so...
 
2014-07-19 08:25:56 AM  
I accept that extraction industries are a necessary evil.  But the money behind them has got to be the sleaziest on the planet.
 
2014-07-19 08:31:33 AM  
Yeah, but that $1.5 billion isn't going into the pockets of the "right" people.
 
2014-07-19 08:31:35 AM  
I'm pretty sure the Tea Party is no longer human.
 
2014-07-19 08:34:13 AM  

propasaurus: I never thought Murkowski was so full if derp.


I didn't let the last election fool me, and don't let the recent round of teabaggers against Republicans fool you: If they're a member of the Republican Party, they are more likely than not full of derp.

/Thad Cochran is not a liberal by any sense of the imagination.
 
2014-07-19 08:35:27 AM  

IlGreven: propasaurus: I never thought Murkowski was so full if derp.

I didn't let the last election fool me, and don't let the recent round of teabaggers against Republicans fool you: If they're a member of the Republican Party, they are more likely than not full of derp.

/Thad Cochran is not a liberal by any sense of the imagination.


Neither are most Democrats.
 
2014-07-19 08:35:37 AM  
Talked to someone last night who just returned from Russia. He said 75% of Russians only watch the propagandistic state channels (run by the oil companies) on TV sets (heavily subsidized by the oil companies). They could get outside news, but they'd have to pay. The news is all hate America all the time.

I felt so sad for Dick Armey and Rick Santelli, struggling to create an entire nation of dangerous fools with just a small contribution from Koch, the American family that gave Stalin his oil fields.
 
2014-07-19 08:37:19 AM  
Remember when conservatives were conservationists, too?

Ok, well, I don't either but I was born the year St. Ronnie started occupying the Oval Office.
 
2014-07-19 08:42:33 AM  

UNC_Samurai: I accept that extraction industries are a necessary evil.  But the money behind them has got to be the sleaziest on the planet.


Just you wait till Dick Cheney finds out what you said.
 
2014-07-19 08:42:34 AM  
There's no mention of the Tea Party in the article, only the comments.  Headline is troll bait.  The article does mention that [2nd amendment] hunters are all for the EPA's ruling, though.

/not sure if I'm defending the tards or not, but it does make me a little sick to my stomach
 
2014-07-19 08:44:53 AM  
Screw the EPA. You can't wear a salmon. And they make lousy cufflinks.
 
2014-07-19 08:47:34 AM  
After seeing people proudly buy truck parts that spew excess exhaust for who fark knows why, we are dealing with a party that is less realistic than Captain Planet villains.
 
2014-07-19 08:49:21 AM  

NeverDrunk23: After seeing people proudly buy truck parts that spew excess exhaust for who fark knows why, we are dealing with a party that is less realistic than Captain Planet villains.


I'm not even sure how that's even possible, but there you have it.
 
2014-07-19 08:52:35 AM  

Schmerd1948: Screw the EPA. You can't wear a salmon. And they make lousy cufflinks.


You can certainly wear salmon, it's a nice color.
 
2014-07-19 08:53:10 AM  
I missed the part in the article that quotes a member of the Tea Party ... (double checks) ... Wait, Sen. Lisa Murkowski is a republican, but not a Tea Party member. If memory serves, she won on a "write-in" campaign, propped up by the republican establishment, against an actual Tea Party representative.

 Tea Party bashing and electoral shenanigans aside, Murkowski makes a good point, "The EPA is setting a precedent that strips Alaska and all Alaskans of the ability to make decisions on how to develop a healthy economy on their lands," Murkowski said in a written statement. "This is a blueprint that will be used across the country to stop economic development."

 The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Disingenuous headline is disingenuous.
 
2014-07-19 08:55:32 AM  

MJMaloney187: I missed the part in the article that quotes a member of the Tea Party ... (double checks) ... Wait, Sen. Lisa Murkowski is a republican, but not a Tea Party member. If memory serves, she won on a "write-in" campaign, propped up by the republican establishment, against an actual Tea Party representative.

 Tea Party bashing and electoral shenanigans aside, Murkowski makes a good point, "The EPA is setting a precedent that strips Alaska and all Alaskans of the ability to make decisions on how to develop a healthy economy on their lands," Murkowski said in a written statement. "This is a blueprint that will be used across the country to stop economic development."

 The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Disingenuous headline is disingenuous.


Oh, well... in that case, screw the salmon
 
2014-07-19 08:56:44 AM  

BitwiseShift: The news is all hate America all the time.


produced by the DNC?
 
2014-07-19 08:59:31 AM  
"The EPA is setting a precedent that strips Alaska and all Alaskans of the ability to make decisions on how to develop a healthy economy on their lands," Murkowski said in a written statement. "This is a blueprint that will be used across the country to stop economic development."

I love it. "We must rape and pillage this land now, to stop the EPA from preventing us from raping and pillaging the land in other areas in the future."
 
2014-07-19 09:02:00 AM  

Schmerd1948: Screw the EPA. You can't wear a salmon. And they make lousy cufflinks.


Wearing fish made Leto II into a god.

Checkmate.
 
2014-07-19 09:10:02 AM  
grumpycatgooddotjpeg
 
2014-07-19 09:10:11 AM  

MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Disingenuous headline is disingenuous.


Salmon replenishes itself, rock does not.  Mine out the rock, use it up, no more salaries.
 
2014-07-19 09:13:58 AM  

LeoffDaGrate: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Disingenuous headline is disingenuous.

Salmon replenishes itself, rock does not.  Mine out the rock, use it up, no more salaries.


Also, immense, ugly hole in the ground, former fishermen with no income, wildlife without a home/food source...
 
2014-07-19 09:19:00 AM  

mgshamster: Schmerd1948: Screw the EPA. You can't wear a salmon. And they make lousy cufflinks.

You can certainly wear salmon, it's a nice color.


Tried on a few occasions, I just can't pull it off.
 
2014-07-19 09:21:03 AM  

LordJiro: LeoffDaGrate: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Disingenuous headline is disingenuous.

Salmon replenishes itself, rock does not.  Mine out the rock, use it up, no more salaries.

Also, immense, ugly hole in the ground, former fishermen with no income, wildlife without a home/food source...


The ugly hole can be covered with a tarp, the former fishermen will be super-ultra rich from having worked in the mines for 5 years before dying of black lung, and wildlife is stoopid and have no concept of "home."  God, you liberal hippies just can't see the big picture.
 
2014-07-19 09:22:19 AM  
"The EPA's expansive, jurisdictional power grab is a very serious threat to Alaska's sovereignty and the future of any development on state, Alaska Native or privately owned lands both in Alaska and across the United States," said U.S. Rep. Don Young, a Republican.

How is that tinfoil hat?  Not too tight?

Cripes, it is always a bureaucratic power grab with these guys.  Never a valid concern by an agency but always a herald of black helicopters and the like.
 
2014-07-19 09:24:28 AM  

MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.


Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?
 
MFK
2014-07-19 09:29:05 AM  
"The EPA's expansive, jurisdictional power grab is a very serious threat to Alaska's sovereignty and the future of any development on state, Alaska Native or privately owned lands both in Alaska and across the United States," said U.S. Rep. Don Young, a Republican.


Who the hell is this guy who thinks that Alaska is a farking sovereign state. The EPA doesn't just make up these rules willy-nilly - they're there for a reason. Who honestly thinks that sacrificing half of the world salmon supply is worth a couple million dollars in some rich guy's pocket?
 
2014-07-19 09:29:37 AM  

Emposter: Schmerd1948: Screw the EPA. You can't wear a salmon. And they make lousy cufflinks.

Wearing fish made Leto II into a god.

Checkmate.


Do sandtrout, strictly speaking, count as fish? Yes, it's in the name, but they don't swim or breathe in water, they encapsulate it. They aren't even a separate species, just the larval form of The Maker.
 
2014-07-19 09:30:15 AM  

UNC_Samurai: IlGreven: propasaurus: I never thought Murkowski was so full if derp.

I didn't let the last election fool me, and don't let the recent round of teabaggers against Republicans fool you: If they're a member of the Republican Party, they are more likely than not full of derp.

/Thad Cochran is not a liberal by any sense of the imagination.

Neither are most Democrats.


At least with Dems it's a non-zero possibility.
 
2014-07-19 09:31:32 AM  

MJMaloney187: I missed the part in the article that quotes a member of the Tea Party ... (double checks) ... Wait, Sen. Lisa Murkowski is a republican, but not a Tea Party member. If memory serves, she won on a "write-in" campaign, propped up by the republican establishment, against an actual Tea Party representative.


...you say this as though the Tea Party and the Republicans are not actually of one mind on most matters...
 
2014-07-19 09:31:40 AM  
sJust wondering. Could they possibly just nuke or conventionally bomb some other Alaskan area far from a nature preserve and samon breeding place so that it exposes rocks and minerals to be mined? Then half the work could already be done for them.
 
2014-07-19 09:31:49 AM  
Who cares about fish? I stopped eating fish because libs seem to have more of a problem with guns than fishing poles. Now I shoot all my meat.
 
2014-07-19 09:31:54 AM  

GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?


Based on my experience as a project manager. I undercut payroll, too, just to make my point.
 
2014-07-19 09:32:10 AM  

GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?


Yes, that's right.  He's suggesting that a coal mining company is going to pay its miners billions of dollars in salaries to extract a few million dollars worth of coal for them. 
So yes, completely out of his ass.
 
2014-07-19 09:32:47 AM  

MFK: "The EPA's expansive, jurisdictional power grab is a very serious threat to Alaska's sovereignty and the future of any development on state, Alaska Native or privately owned lands both in Alaska and across the United States," said U.S. Rep. Don Young, a Republican.


Who the hell is this guy who thinks that Alaska is a farking sovereign state. The EPA doesn't just make up these rules willy-nilly - they're there for a reason. Who honestly thinks that sacrificing half of the world salmon supply is worth a couple million dollars in some rich guy's pocket?


Anyone who is not getting rich off of salmon, but would off of the mining proposal.
 
2014-07-19 09:33:17 AM  

GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?


I vote butt nugget.

Pretty sure the 20 people it takes to run the megamachines won't make that much. And probably won't be from or stay in AK.
 
2014-07-19 09:33:36 AM  

MFK: "The EPA's expansive, jurisdictional power grab is a very serious threat to Alaska's sovereignty and the future of any development on state, Alaska Native or privately owned lands both in Alaska and across the United States," said U.S. Rep. Don Young, a Republican.


Who the hell is this guy who thinks that Alaska is a farking sovereign state. The EPA doesn't just make up these rules willy-nilly - they're there for a reason. Who honestly thinks that sacrificing half of the world salmon supply is worth a couple million dollars in some rich guy's pocket?


Every state is a sovereign state to the Republicans (at least while we have a black Democrat as President, that is).
 
2014-07-19 09:36:20 AM  
The salmon industry relies on a renewable resource. Mining does not. Hopefully Alaska continues to understand that.
 
2014-07-19 09:36:21 AM  

MJMaloney187: I missed the part in the article that quotes a member of the Tea Party ... (double checks) ... Wait, Sen. Lisa Murkowski is a republican, but not a Tea Party member. If memory serves, she won on a "write-in" campaign, propped up by the republican establishment, against an actual Tea Party representative.

 Tea Party bashing and electoral shenanigans aside, Murkowski makes a good point, "The EPA is setting a precedent that strips Alaska and all Alaskans of the ability to make decisions on how to develop a healthy economy on their lands," Murkowski said in a written statement. "This is a blueprint that will be used across the country to stop economic development."

 The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Disingenuous headline is disingenuous.


So we shouldnt think of the longterm effects of certain major environmental actions on our national economy and our ability to feed citizens -- because Alaskas feelings might get a little hurt and they want to do whatever the fark they want, consequences be damned? Yeeeah ok. Its a little late to jump on that "teh feds want to control your statehood" bandwagon ever since, youknow, the country has operated an effective federal government which has been doing just that for a few hundred goddamn years.
 
2014-07-19 09:38:13 AM  

MJMaloney187: Tea Party bashing and electoral shenanigans aside, Murkowski makes a good point, "The EPA is setting a precedent that strips Alaska and all Alaskans of the ability to make decisions on how to develop a healthy economy on their lands," Murkowski said in a written statement. "This is a blueprint that will be used across the country to stop economic development."


If these are the ill-informed, completely ill-measured and ultimately dangerous decisions that some Alaskans are willing to make, then some one needs to step in and tell them no.
 
2014-07-19 09:38:14 AM  

MJMaloney187: GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?

Based on my experience as a project manager. I undercut payroll, too, just to make my point.


I question how competent you are at your supposed job.  The article states that there are millions of dollars worth of minerals.  Why would a company pay a billion dollars to extract millions of dollars worth of minerals?
 
2014-07-19 09:39:57 AM  

MJMaloney187: my experience as a project manager


And after you guys built that sand castle, did the special ed teacher take you for ice cream?
 
2014-07-19 09:41:36 AM  

AurizenDarkstar: Every state is a sovereign state to the Republicans (at least while we have a black Democrat as President, that is).


Except for California, of course.  In fact, it's so dysfunctional we need to split it into six states right damn now!
 
2014-07-19 09:41:59 AM  

readymix: GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?

Yes, that's right.  He's suggesting that a coal mining company is going to pay its miners billions of dollars in salaries to extract a few million dollars worth of coal for them. 
So yes, completely out of his ass.


Yup.
But he's totally a project manager! With experience.
 
2014-07-19 09:43:29 AM  

readymix: GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?

Yes, that's right.  He's suggesting that a coal mining company is going to pay its miners billions of dollars in salaries to extract a few million dollars worth of coal for them.
So yes, completely out of his ass.


Re-read the article. This project isn't just some hole in the ground to extract clay. It's an excavation that would rival the Grand Canyon in an effort to extract three useful elements: gold, copper, and molybdenum. If you're really worried about the salmon, then make an effort to expand these.

I'm sure glad interstate highways and car stereos came before you emasculated, pearl clutchers.
 
2014-07-19 09:44:05 AM  

MJMaloney187: GranoblasticMan: MJMaloney187: The article also states that the mining company intends to excavate enough rock to fill a large stadium 880 times. That effort alone would be worth a billion dollars in salaries.

Uh, based on what? Just pulling that number out of your ass?

Based on my experience as a project manager. I undercut payroll, too, just to make my point.


...and you've done neither for a mine or quarry before, or else you'd know how common such a dig that would "fill a large stadium 880 times" is.  Hell, moving that much rock probably doesn't even cost 8 figures, let alone billions.
 
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