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(io9)   This just in: Kids from religious backgrounds have a hard time differentiating between reality and fiction   (io9.com) divider line 287
    More: Obvious, parochial schools  
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7792 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jul 2014 at 3:55 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-19 12:40:47 AM  
The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.
 
2014-07-19 01:13:24 AM  
Strangely, my very religious parents made me quit playing Dungeons and Dragons because they were concerned I couldn't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

So, I am an atheist now.

And a 8th Level Paladin.
 
2014-07-19 01:14:10 AM  
It has been known for millennia  that if you want truly willing pawns, you have to begin their indoctrination early

/reality is what is imposed
 
2014-07-19 01:37:16 AM  

Ennuipoet: Strangely, my very religious parents made me quit playing Dungeons and Dragons because they were concerned I couldn't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

So, I am an atheist now.

And a 8th Level Paladin.


Hope they didn't toss away all your D&D books, some of them are actually worth money today...

/ my parents were cool with D&D, I think they liked the fact that I was working with numbers..( having fun with math )
 
2014-07-19 01:41:36 AM  

fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.


thank you
came here to say this

all religion is delusion
proof? ban adults from indoctrinating their children.
Then watch how many adult children join the cult.
 
2014-07-19 02:16:47 AM  

Ennuipoet: Strangely, my very religious parents made me quit playing Dungeons and Dragons because they were concerned I couldn't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

So, I am an atheist now.

And a 8th Level Paladin.


I'm a 10th level vice president.
 
2014-07-19 03:40:27 AM  

Serious Black: Ennuipoet: Strangely, my very religious parents made me quit playing Dungeons and Dragons because they were concerned I couldn't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

So, I am an atheist now.

And a 8th Level Paladin.

I'm a 10th level vice president.


12th level vagina experiencer.
 
2014-07-19 04:02:39 AM  

fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.


^ No one actually believes this!
 
2014-07-19 04:07:22 AM  

Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!


I'm going out on a limb and guessing you're religious.

Which one?
 
2014-07-19 04:08:53 AM  

Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!


Yes, we do.
 
2014-07-19 04:11:01 AM  

PunGent: Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!

I'm going out on a limb and guessing you're religious.

Which one?


See what happens when you stop thinking? Generalizations.

/Zoroaster 4 lyf, yo!
 
2014-07-19 04:12:16 AM  

Smoking GNU: Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!

Yes, we do.


Yup.  We do.
 
2014-07-19 04:15:56 AM  
So what do you define as religion? At what point do you consider a belief system child abuse? Does it involve a god, or merely a set of morals?
 
2014-07-19 04:17:16 AM  
The article is poorly written. Either that or useless information. Because the only stories that really invoke God giving extra powers are bible stories anyway.

Let's say that Superman said his powers were God-given instead of yellow-sun given. The article contends that religious kids would be confused and think that Superman was non-fiction. Am I right that this is what the article was saying? Or is the article even uselesser than I presently think?
 
2014-07-19 04:18:07 AM  

Yogimus: PunGent: Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!

I'm going out on a limb and guessing you're religious.

Which one?

See what happens when you stop thinking? Generalizations.

/Zoroaster 4 lyf, yo!


Oooh, and ad hominem.

Yep, you're religious.  Which means you're part of the problem.   Get over it...some religious instruction IS child abuse.

http://passivevoices.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/the-new-generation-sui ci de-bombers%E2%80%A6/
 
2014-07-19 04:21:15 AM  
Do you always place folks you disagree with into groups?
 
2014-07-19 04:24:15 AM  

Yogimus: So what do you define as religion? At what point do you consider a belief system child abuse? Does it involve a god, or merely a set of morals?


Mostly a god that the kid can't see, hear, talk to, or get response from.  Then add in a dash of eternal torment if the kid breaks rules they can't fully comprehend, an ass load of guilt for everything fun, and the sneaking feeling that the god is watching you and judging you every minute of every day.

"As I lay me down to sleep.  I pray the Lord my soul to keep.  Should I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."  How is that not emotional abuse?
 
2014-07-19 04:27:13 AM  
This just in: Kids from religious backgrounds have a hard time differentiating between reality and fiction
FTFSubby
 
2014-07-19 04:29:29 AM  

fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.


Passing the bullshiat down through generations in this way is pretty much the sole reason this crap perpetuates and you're absolutely right; let people make up their own minds when they are capable of deciding for themselves.
Obviously if that happened there would be a LOT less believers and that would be an affront to the corporation church and its coffers.

A few months ago I was talking to someone I know that told me he was trying to get his son (I think 16, never met him) to place his beliefs in teh jesus but the kid wasn't interested at all. (Family is separated, not sure who has who). He told me that is was important that he instill these beliefs in his son and the reason he gave as to why is because it's what his parents taught him, and his grandparents taught his parents, and his great-grandparents taught his grandparents, etc. etc.
 
2014-07-19 04:30:08 AM  

doyner: Smoking GNU: Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!

Yes, we do.

Yup.  We do.


Lying to ones children to shame them into following their interpretation of "god"s will aint all that friendly. Yup, we do.
 
2014-07-19 04:32:34 AM  
That's because religion mixes their fiction into reality.
 
2014-07-19 04:33:47 AM  
Granted, I was the kid who couldn't handle movies that were even slightly scary, not because I didn't know it was fake but because my imagination ran away with the, "sure, it's fake, but what if it   wasn't?" However, my good little Southern Baptist child self never had a problem telling if stories were fiction or not. My parents would read books to me, I'd get scared, they'd tell me it was just a story and I had no reason to be scared, I'd unsuccessfully try to explain that I knew it was a story but I couldn't help it, book would get put away until I was older. The witch in CS Lewis'  Silver Chair scared the crap out of me when I was five. I knew it wasn't real and could never happen, that didn't stop me from imagining it happening to me in great detail.

Then again, I may be a bad judge of normal. I read the Christian supernatural thriller This Present Darkness when I was 7 or 8 and absolutely loved it because it was just the right level of scary for me to be properly scared while still being able to handle it. I was shocked to discover years later that a shiat ton of the evangelical world thought the book was real and started praying against the various demons mentioned in the novel. I just thought it was a good scary story.
 
2014-07-19 04:38:05 AM  

gadian: Yogimus: So what do you define as religion? At what point do you consider a belief system child abuse? Does it involve a god, or merely a set of morals?

Mostly a god that the kid can't see, hear, talk to, or get response from.  Then add in a dash of eternal torment if the kid breaks rules they can't fully comprehend, an ass load of guilt for everything fun, and the sneaking feeling that the god is watching you and judging you every minute of every day.

"As I lay me down to sleep.  I pray the Lord my soul to keep.  Should I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."  How is that not emotional abuse?


Do you ever comfort your kid by telling them mommy/daddy will be there?

Here is my thoughts on the matter:
Kids need rules and boundaries in their lives, and religion provides that. Believing in an abstract authority works VERY well with a young (under 8yo) mind, because they accept things as-is, and don't seek logical fallacies. Once they hit about 8 years old, it becomes time to teach them the reasons behind the things religion teaches them.  They can sense cause and effect down to multiple levels beyond the immediate.

Religion is a tool, one that can be effective in child rearing, and no more harmful than santa (holy shiat! look what santa does! MIND BLOWN!) or the easter bunny.

Bad people using tools in bad ways are what result in abuse. The tools are just tools. Hell, if you analyze popular religions and consider it a "guide" for how to live a happy life, you can find your life a happier place, even if you disregard all the voodoo behind it.
 
2014-07-19 04:38:55 AM  
God help all of you.
 
2014-07-19 04:39:00 AM  

sobriquet by any other name: doyner: Smoking GNU: Yogimus: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

^ No one actually believes this!

Yes, we do.

Yup.  We do.

Lying to ones children to shame them into following their interpretation of "god"s will aint all that friendly. Yup, we do.


No. "WE" don't.
 
2014-07-19 04:39:05 AM  

fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.


Quite right. The scientific method is clearly also a matter of belief.

In fact, no edumacation at all until you're 18 and able to deal with it like an adult.
 
2014-07-19 04:39:45 AM  
Also, what if you are wrong.
 
2014-07-19 04:42:40 AM  

Yogimus: Religion is a tool, one that can be effective in child rearing, and no more harmful than santa (holy shiat! look what santa does! MIND BLOWN!) or the easter bunny.


At what age is it proper to explain to a child that the religion angle isn't real as is customary with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?
Aren't you a little old to believe in fairy tales and/or trolling?
 
2014-07-19 04:43:37 AM  

wichitaleaf: God help all of you.


He does every day, in spite of myself, if he loves me.... does he not?
 
2014-07-19 04:46:15 AM  

Yogimus: Kids need rules and boundaries in their lives, and religion provides that.


Kids need rules and boundaries and can and should absolutely have that without the threat of eternal torment for you or your family if you or they don't believe hard enough or follow every little rule.  You want to explain things to kids when they're 8 and they can understand, but you've just confused and probably terrified the shiat out of them before that, when they are least capable of handling it. Mommy and daddy only comfort you until the lights are out.

You're right though, Santa is kind of an allegory for god.  The good thing about Santa is that kids are encouraged to stop believing in Santa as they grow up.  Fortunately, many also apply the same logic to God.

How do you get kids to follow rules without god and the imagery?  "You do this because that is how things are done", no abuse required.
 
2014-07-19 04:46:22 AM  

C18H27NO3: Yogimus: Religion is a tool, one that can be effective in child rearing, and no more harmful than santa (holy shiat! look what santa does! MIND BLOWN!) or the easter bunny.

At what age is it proper to explain to a child that the religion angle isn't real as is customary with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?
Aren't you a little old to believe in fairy tales and/or trolling?


Trying to have a conversation. Not trolling (this time)

Each child is different, but once they start asking about deeper reasons, and start looking behind curtains, as it were, is a good time to start dispelling notions
 
2014-07-19 04:46:57 AM  
1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com

Jesus Christ.....on a muthafacking T-Rex, fark yeah!
 
2014-07-19 04:49:51 AM  

gadian: Yogimus: Kids need rules and boundaries in their lives, and religion provides that.

Kids need rules and boundaries and can and should absolutely have that without the threat of eternal torment for you or your family if you or they don't believe hard enough or follow every little rule.  You want to explain things to kids when they're 8 and they can understand, but you've just confused and probably terrified the shiat out of them before that, when they are least capable of handling it. Mommy and daddy only comfort you until the lights are out.

You're right though, Santa is kind of an allegory for god.  The good thing about Santa is that kids are encouraged to stop believing in Santa as they grow up.  Fortunately, many also apply the same logic to God.

How do you get kids to follow rules without god and the imagery?  "You do this because that is how things are done", no abuse required.


Do you believe that fire and brimstone is the cornerstone of every single religion? Or even to christian and catholic religions? Not the love of a higher being but his anger?

/granted there are folks like that, but there are also folks who rape their 10 year old kids into line as a form of discipline.
 
2014-07-19 04:50:16 AM  

gadian: "As I lay me down to sleep.  I pray the Lord my soul to keep.  Should I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."  How is that not emotional abuse?


"As I lay me down to sleep, I pray I don't die because there's nothing else out there for me and nothing but heartache and pain for my parents" - doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

You could make an argument either way, but kids are going to ask about dying.  One story is happier than the other.
 
2014-07-19 04:51:15 AM  

opiumpoopy: fusillade762: The religious indoctrination of children should be considered child abuse. Let them make up their minds about this stuff when they get older.

Quite right. The scientific method is clearly also a matter of belief.

In fact, no edumacation at all until you're 18 and able to deal with it like an adult.


Science is a religion? Is your surname "Trole"?
 
2014-07-19 04:52:31 AM  

Yogimus: Do you believe that fire and brimstone is the cornerstone of every single religion? Or even to christian and catholic religions? Not the love of a higher being but his anger?

/granted there are folks like that, but there are also folks who rape their 10 year old kids into line as a form of discipline.


Have you read the Bible?  What is the ratio of love to torment in that book?  God loves you if you do what he says.  God punishes you if you don't do what he says, but sometimes the punishment is because he loves you.  You should love god no matter what, including accepting punishment that you do not deserve.  That is an abusive marriage, not something you should teach a child.
 
2014-07-19 04:54:05 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-19 04:54:14 AM  

gadian: Yogimus: Do you believe that fire and brimstone is the cornerstone of every single religion? Or even to christian and catholic religions? Not the love of a higher being but his anger?

/granted there are folks like that, but there are also folks who rape their 10 year old kids into line as a form of discipline.

Have you read the Bible?  What is the ratio of love to torment in that book?  God loves you if you do what he says.  God punishes you if you don't do what he says, but sometimes the punishment is because he loves you.  You should love god no matter what, including accepting punishment that you do not deserve.  That is an abusive marriage, not something you should teach a child.


Old testament kind of guy, eh?


So you think that is what every single parent teaches their child?
 
2014-07-19 04:54:22 AM  

Lsherm: "As I lay me down to sleep, I pray I don't die because there's nothing else out there for me and nothing but heartache and pain for my parents" - doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

You could make an argument either way, but kids are going to ask about dying. One story is happier than the other.


How about "Night, mommy and daddy, love you.  See you in the morning!"?  Why make children worry they'll die during the night?  Kids are going to ask about dying, but you don't have to have them beg an eternal and invisible deity for their benevolent mercy.
 
2014-07-19 04:56:14 AM  

wichitaleaf: God help all of you.


God helps those who help themselves.

/which really is saying a god, if there is one,  doesn't do anything,  it's up to you.
 
2014-07-19 04:57:07 AM  

gadian: Lsherm: "As I lay me down to sleep, I pray I don't die because there's nothing else out there for me and nothing but heartache and pain for my parents" - doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

You could make an argument either way, but kids are going to ask about dying. One story is happier than the other.

How about "Night, mommy and daddy, love you.  See you in the morning!"?  Why make children worry they'll die during the night?  Kids are going to ask about dying, but you don't have to have them beg an eternal and invisible deity for their benevolent mercy.


Comfort.
 
2014-07-19 04:59:11 AM  

Yogimus: Old testament kind of guy, eh?


So you think that is what every single parent teaches their child?


I'm not an either Testament of the Bible, girl - I take the work as a whole. The New Testament isn't a whole lot better, except for that one guy that gets nailed to a board by his loving father later and who you should feel eternal guilt and indebtedness for.  Every single parent that has really read and understands the Bible and the tenents of their religion teach their children the truth, not a sanitized "Jesus hugging lambs" bit.
 
2014-07-19 05:00:27 AM  
www.godofevolution.com
 
2014-07-19 05:01:11 AM  
Let's flip the script.

How about non-christian religions?
 
2014-07-19 05:01:21 AM  

gadian: Lsherm: "As I lay me down to sleep, I pray I don't die because there's nothing else out there for me and nothing but heartache and pain for my parents" - doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

You could make an argument either way, but kids are going to ask about dying. One story is happier than the other.

How about "Night, mommy and daddy, love you.  See you in the morning!"?  Why make children worry they'll die during the night?  Kids are going to ask about dying, but you don't have to have them beg an eternal and invisible deity for their benevolent mercy.


Children are going to worry about dying in the night, they'll worry about you dying in the night, and they'll worry non-stop about everyone dying the minute they are able to conceptualize it. At some point you have to tell them something.

Let me guess, you don't have kids?
 
2014-07-19 05:05:08 AM  

fusillade762: [www.godofevolution.com image 822x475]


"I have proof I accept"
"I ALSO have proof I accept"
 
2014-07-19 05:07:04 AM  

Yogimus: wichitaleaf: God help all of you.

He does every day, in spite of myself, if he loves me.... does he not?


Only in the sense that Superman and Batman protect you from bad guys every day.
 
2014-07-19 05:10:00 AM  
Sex with animals, rape, incest,  stoning, killing done in hundreds of different ways, women treated as property, and you teach this to your children?  What's wrong with you people?

img.fark.net
 
2014-07-19 05:11:16 AM  

Yogimus: gadian: Yogimus: So what do you define as religion? At what point do you consider a belief system child abuse? Does it involve a god, or merely a set of morals?

Mostly a god that the kid can't see, hear, talk to, or get response from.  Then add in a dash of eternal torment if the kid breaks rules they can't fully comprehend, an ass load of guilt for everything fun, and the sneaking feeling that the god is watching you and judging you every minute of every day.

"As I lay me down to sleep.  I pray the Lord my soul to keep.  Should I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."  How is that not emotional abuse?

Do you ever comfort your kid by telling them mommy/daddy will be there?

Here is my thoughts on the matter:
Kids need rules and boundaries in their lives, and religion provides that. Believing in an abstract authority works VERY well with a young (under 8yo) mind, because they accept things as-is, and don't seek logical fallacies. Once they hit about 8 years old, it becomes time to teach them the reasons behind the things religion teaches them.  They can sense cause and effect down to multiple levels beyond the immediate.

Religion is a tool, one that can be effective in child rearing, and no more harmful than santa (holy shiat! look what santa does! MIND BLOWN!) or the easter bunny.

Bad people using tools in bad ways are what result in abuse. The tools are just tools. Hell, if you analyze popular religions and consider it a "guide" for how to live a happy life, you can find your life a happier place, even if you disregard all the voodoo behind it.


I find your position intriguing and I'd like to hear more. While I feel that theology needs to a bit more removed from society your moderate stance and tolerance is quite acceptable.  In my mind, the problem exists not with the beliefs, but with the lack of the understanding of said beliefs, which is what leads to indoctrination.

To subject your child to your beliefs is one thing, making them follow said beliefs 'cause I said so' is another.
 
2014-07-19 05:13:08 AM  
If you are taught to believe one fantastic story without evidence you sort of have to believe them all to a degree. This makes other religions somewhat of a threat not just another outrageous story.
 
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