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(Al Jazeera)   Gaza peace negotiations marred by bad faith. Also, rockets, bomb strikes, mortars, etc   (america.aljazeera.com) divider line 111
    More: Obvious, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Gaza, Mohamed Morsi, Gazans, frameup, Sisi, Rafah, Iron Dome  
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1217 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jul 2014 at 4:20 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-18 02:19:43 PM
Yeah but this time it's going to work!
 
2014-07-18 02:23:49 PM
It seems like Hamas has lost. Arab governments no longer support it, and its not doing much good for the people in Gaza.

It seems to me that Hamas should re-structure itself, fast.
 
2014-07-18 04:22:50 PM
Gaza peace negotiations marred by bad faiths.
 
2014-07-18 04:23:07 PM
They have yet to work out which faith is the bad one.
 
2014-07-18 04:23:23 PM
Gaza peace negotiations marred by bad faith


That's an awfully tacky way to refer to Islam, Subby.
 
2014-07-18 04:25:19 PM
Last one out, blow out the menorah.
 
2014-07-18 04:30:46 PM
Oh Israel, for thousands of years your people have been oppressed. And now you have become the oppressors. How ironic.
 
2014-07-18 04:31:57 PM
This is what happens when you don't put a mezuzah on your border fence of scrap and flaming tires.
 
2014-07-18 04:31:59 PM
I was hoping fark wouldn't have any Gaza threads.
 
2014-07-18 04:32:24 PM
Al Jazeera's Opinion pieces are clearly marked, unlike other sites. Huh.
 
2014-07-18 04:33:28 PM
Well, that was a pretty objective and unbiased appraisal.
 
2014-07-18 04:34:00 PM

vernonFL: It seems like Hamas has lost. Arab governments no longer support it, and its not doing much good for the people in Gaza.

It seems to me that Hamas should re-structure itself, fast.


Oh, yeah, I'm sure a more Israel-friendly government will arise out of being bombed mercilessly, killing hundreds of civilians for essentially no reason.

Expert analysis, there.
 
2014-07-18 04:37:48 PM

ikanreed: vernonFL: It seems like Hamas has lost. Arab governments no longer support it, and its not doing much good for the people in Gaza.

It seems to me that Hamas should re-structure itself, fast.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure a more Israel-friendly government will arise out of being bombed mercilessly, killing hundreds of civilians for essentially no reason.

Expert analysis, there.


Hamas fires rockets, (that rarely hit anyone and certainly don't kill anywhere near as many Israelis as Israelis kill Palestinians)  though! And Israel WARNS people to leave their homes the night before destroying them. Therefore, any Palestinians that do die are entirely at fault and if you say otherwise, you're EXACTLY LIKE HITLER.
 
2014-07-18 04:38:54 PM

vernonFL: It seems like Hamas has lost. Arab governments no longer support it, and its not doing much good for the people in Gaza.

It seems to me that Hamas should re-structure itself, fast.


THAT

Abu Mazen was already coming around to "OK, so if we get rid of 'Death to Israel', you'll REALLY lift sanctions?" and having that work - which pissed of Gazans, because the WB is better off. West-Bankers have more of an economic safety net. The fact that Fatah were pretty corrupt (still are, by many measures) didn't help.

Gazans supported Hamas electorally because they got shiat done - they could rebuild (using materials smuggled through tunnels), they had money (from their terrorist brethren all over, plus sympathy funds from other Arab leaders), they had clout (their guys were in positions of social power anyway, regardless of elections), and they weren't as corrupt as Fatah.

Fast forward to now - the Old Egypt is gone, and al-Sisi is no fan of Hamas (though the Rafah crossing was closed for a LONG time under the Old Egypt, because they didn't want Hamas staging stuff from their side of the line and jeopardizing their own uneasy truce with Israel); Abbas never got along with Hamas and now has more political power in Gaza as Gazans see the WB still improving and Gaza (meaning the Hamas government) being too concerned with poking Israel to actually get anything done; Israel's stance toward Hamas is pretty clear.

So Hamas COULD - as they could have immediately after their election - moderate and become an actual voice in the region, or they can resign themselves to going punch-for-punch with Israel some more.

IMO, it seems like they don't care until it threatens their political hold - they're fine getting airstruck from now until Rapture, so long as they can retain local support. I also wonder if they'll ever let (UN-monitored) elections happen again so long as it looks like Fatah (or anyone non-Hamas) wins.
 
2014-07-18 04:40:06 PM

BigNumber12: Gaza peace negotiations marred by bad faith


That's an awfully tacky way to refer to Islam, Subby.


and a lot of awful things have been done in it's name as of late, so i call it even.
 
2014-07-18 04:42:05 PM
So,is this a good assessment of the situation?

Two neighbors live in the hood. One is of the ethnicity of the rest of the neighbors, the other is not. Neighbor who is(1), has determined that other neighbor is using 15 feet of his land to build a garden on. Neighbor who isn't(2) says "fark you. adverse possession says it's mine cause I've been here X years." Neighbor one starts throwing bricks at neighbor 2's house. Neighbor 2 says knock that shiat off or I will fight back. Neighbor 2 goes on and on until finally neighbor 2 start unloading his farking handgun at neighbor 1's house. Meanwhile, neither neighbor is actually hitting one another, but instead hitting their kids. Neighbor 2 is clearly winning this fight, so neighbor 1's calls the cops to stop it. They show up and tell both sides "talk this shiat out, cause we're not getting involved. But if we have to come back, there will be hell to pay." Both neighbors agree. As soon as cops are down the street, neighbor 1 whispers to neighbor 2, "You're farking dead, man." neighbor 2 "Oh yeah? so are you." Rinse/repeat entire chain of events above.

Does that about cover it?
 
2014-07-18 04:42:41 PM
(over the last decade, only   have been killed by Palestinian rockets -hardly an existential crisis)

Defining the conflict by the number of civilian deaths on each side isn't particularly meaningful.  The Israelis build bomb shelters and missile warning and defense systems while Hamas targets their civilians.  The Gazans run to provide a human shield to military targets after the IDF warns civilians to leave.  Of course more civilians will be killed in Gaza under those circumstances.

My wife keeps in touch with a friend who now lives in Israel.  She says that she hasn't vacuumed since the most recent conflict started because she's afraid of not being able to hear the sirens.
 
2014-07-18 04:45:12 PM

macadamnut: Gaza peace negotiations marred by bad faiths.


When you do what you like, it ends up that you can't find your way home.
 
2014-07-18 04:45:44 PM

LordJiro: Hamas fires rockets, (that rarely hit anyone and certainly don't kill anywhere near as many Israelis as Israelis kill Palestinians)  though!


This logic always amazes me. Tell me, if i bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.
 
2014-07-18 04:46:15 PM
Considering their ancestors legendary tenacity and thoroughness in battle, I'd say the modern Israelis are showing a remarkable amount of restraint.

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-07-18 04:47:43 PM
end palestine
 
2014-07-18 04:48:39 PM
So, you're saying that both Islam and Judaism are bad?

Considering the absolute root of the entire conflict is their religion, I'd have to agree.

Yeah, yeah, land, bla bla bla...  But no one would care about that land if their religion didn't tell them it was their entitlement.
 
2014-07-18 04:55:30 PM

TappingTheVein: LordJiro: Hamas fires rockets, (that rarely hit anyone and certainly don't kill anywhere near as many Israelis as Israelis kill Palestinians)  though!

This logic always amazes me. Tell me, if i bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.


Ah, the never ending false analogies that make no sense. Occupy a territory, blockade them as a form of collective punishment, then complain that they fight back. I mean, how dare the occupied people resist? They should be grateful Israel hasn't killed the whole lot of them already.

radarlove: Considering their ancestors legendary tenacity and thoroughness in battle, I'd say the modern Israelis are showing a remarkable amount of restraint.

[s3.amazonaws.com image 500x206]


Yes, praise Israel for  only killing 250+ Palestinians, a quarter of whom were kids. Because if they're not shown enough gratitude, they might kill a few hundred or thousand more. And it'll be the Palestinians fault for not appeasing the bully well enough.
 
2014-07-18 04:56:21 PM

TappingTheVein: LordJiro: Hamas fires rockets, (that rarely hit anyone and certainly don't kill anywhere near as many Israelis as Israelis kill Palestinians)  though!

This logic always amazes me. Tell me, if i bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.


It's like a dangled red herring.  "If tangentially related activity X doesn't justify killing civilians, how can we be doing anything wrong?"

You don't kill literally hundreds of people by accident.  That doesn't happen.  Never in the history of the world.
 
2014-07-18 04:56:45 PM

BigNumber12: Gaza peace negotiations marred by bad faith


That's an awfully tacky way to refer to Islam, Subby.


I first read that as "married" and it still made sense.
 
2014-07-18 04:58:24 PM

ikanreed: TappingTheVein: LordJiro: Hamas fires rockets, (that rarely hit anyone and certainly don't kill anywhere near as many Israelis as Israelis kill Palestinians)  though!

This logic always amazes me. Tell me, if i bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.

It's like a dangled red herring.  "If tangentially related activity X doesn't justify killing civilians, how can we be doing anything wrong?"

You don't kill literally hundreds of people by accident.  That doesn't happen.  Never in the history of the world.


fc08.deviantart.net
 
2014-07-18 05:06:47 PM
Egypt doesn't want Hamas' brand of religious fervor.  The PLO doesn't want it, either. Maybe Hamas should get the farking idea and stop taunting the goddamned dynamite monkey
 
2014-07-18 05:12:08 PM

Someothermonkey: Ah, the never ending false analogies that make no sense


Eh ?

Someothermonkey: Occupy a territory


Gaza wasn't occupied.

Someothermonkey: blockade them as a form of collective punishment


..as a result of them declaring Jihad on the jews and attacking Israel. Personal responsibility and all that.

Someothermonkey: then complain that they fight back


'Fight back' ? they have been attacking Israel the moment israel left Gaza, they don't 'fight back' they simply fight because that's what their organization stands for, the eradication of Israel. You really have no clue about this do you ?

Someothermonkey: how dare the occupied people resist?


Israel left Gaza, they weren't occupied, they had a chance to show the world what a wonderful peaceful society they are, guess what they did ?

ikanreed: It's like a dangled red herring.  "If tangentially related activity X doesn't justify killing civilians, how can we be doing anything wrong?"

You don't kill literally hundreds of people by accident.  That doesn't happen.  Never in the history of the world.


So you're saying having your country bombed is a non-issue and has nothing to do with Israel's actions ? please clarify this for me.
Count the number of Israeli attacks in this operation and count the number of casualties. Israel's effort to prevent civilian casualties is unparalleled in modern warfare, especially when Hamas' goal is to have as many dead palestinians as possible.

Again, please explain the rationality of 'but you guys don't die so why the hell are you attacking them ?!'
 
2014-07-18 05:17:38 PM
This is the second article I've read today suggesting the current conflict is more about Hamas and Egypt then it is about Hamas and Israel.

That is, Hamas is doing this knowing they are far likelier to manipulate Egypt in the end than they are to manipulate Israel.

The other article at a UAE media site:

http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/palestinians-die-in-the-mo st -cynical-of-all-military-games

Palestinians die in the most cynical of all military games

Hussein Ibish
July 13, 2014

Lost amid the carnage, the key fact about the latest Israeli-Palestinian conflagration remains largely unrecognised: Egypt's new and pivotal role. Egypt has always been the default broker between Israel and Hamas, since it is able to deal with Hamas without according it any greater international and diplomatic legitimacy.

But this time it's different. It's no longer about Egypt playing a crucial mediating role. Instead, Hamas is mainly seeking to extract concessions not from Tel Aviv or Ramallah, but from Cairo.

Hamas, or more likely loosely affiliated rogue elements based in Hebron, deliberately lit a fire by kidnapping and murdering three Israeli teenagers. This unleashed a brutal series of tit-for-tat attacks between Israelis and Palestinians that spiralled out of control.

Certainly, the Palestinian Authority based in Ramallah had no control over what was going on in occupied East Jerusalem, let alone unrest among Palestinian citizens of Israel.

The Israeli government, too, clearly lost control of the situation when fanatics grabbed an innocent teenager and tortured and burnt him to death. Even Israel's security forces seemed to be acting beyond any bounds of restraint as they brutally beat a 15-year-old Palestinian-American cousin of the murder victim.

Passions ruled the day. Years of incitement and frustration on both sides boiled over.

As rocket attacks on southern Israel from Gaza increased, it also seemed that Hamas leaders perhaps didn't control their own military, and certainly not that of other, more extreme groups like Islamic Jihad.

Yet Hamas sought some kind of benefit in the chaos.

...
 
2014-07-18 05:18:37 PM

jayphat: So,is this a good assessment of the situation?

Two neighbors live in the hood. One is of the ethnicity of the rest of the neighbors, the other is not. Neighbor who is(1), has determined that other neighbor is using 15 feet of his land to build a garden on. Neighbor who isn't(2) says "fark you. adverse possession says it's mine cause I've been here X years." Neighbor one starts throwing bricks at neighbor 2's house. Neighbor 2 says knock that shiat off or I will fight back. Neighbor 2 goes on and on until finally neighbor 2 start unloading his farking handgun at neighbor 1's house. Meanwhile, neither neighbor is actually hitting one another, but instead hitting their kids. Neighbor 2 is clearly winning this fight, so neighbor 1's calls the cops to stop it. They show up and tell both sides "talk this shiat out, cause we're not getting involved. But if we have to come back, there will be hell to pay." Both neighbors agree. As soon as cops are down the street, neighbor 1 whispers to neighbor 2, "You're farking dead, man." neighbor 2 "Oh yeah? so are you." Rinse/repeat entire chain of events above.

Does that about cover it?


Close enough.

Throw in a lot of Facebook posters from five hundred miles away saying "side 1 is clearly right because reasons" and other posters saying "side 2 is clearly right because different reasons", and that's about right.
 
2014-07-18 05:20:13 PM

Someothermonkey: 250+ Palestinians


You know those are Hamas' own numbers, right? That no one else can verify them because, you know, there's a hot conflict going on? And no one has yet gone through to sort out who were "civilians" and who were not (i.e. which of the dead were actual noncombatants, as opposed to non-uniformed people moving rockets and launchers)?

So while I'm not going to claim all of the dead are innocents or not, or that it's impossible that 250+ people have been killed - I will encourage you to take the "official" numbers with a grain (or shaker) of salt.
 
2014-07-18 05:20:31 PM

TappingTheVein: Israel's effort to prevent civilian casualties is unparalleled in modern warfare, especially when Hamas' goal is to have as many dead palestinians as possible.


And Iron Dome protection is likely ephemeral.

In the past five years "Gazan" rockets (largely imported from elsewhere) have become much larger and much more sophisticated. I bet that give them a bit more fuel, a bit more of a navigational system, and they will become deadlier, more accurate, and more capable of outflying the current Iron Dome response.
 
2014-07-18 05:21:30 PM

moeburn: Oh Israel, for thousands of years your people have been oppressed. And now you have become the oppressors. How ironic.



This.
 
2014-07-18 05:23:27 PM

vernonFL: It seems like Hamas has lost. Arab governments no longer support it, and its not doing much good for the people in Gaza.

It seems to me that Hamas should re-structure itself, fast.


Hamas was only supported by Arab states as it was convenient to do so. They didn't like all the Palestinian refugees probably more than they don't like Israel. They used it as an excuse and leverage
in anything they could. But now the cameras have shown that the emperor (Hamas) has no clothes. Hamas was just another crime syndicate like the PLO. They played both sides to enrich their leaders.
And that's the Palestinians problem.The Palestinian sympathy card doesn't work when you instigate problems (Not that Israel is totally right either!!!) over and over again.
Israel just wants the shenanigans to stop.The Arab states have real problems, and can't screw around with this little proxy peeing contest anymore. Multiple nations and their oil incomes are in real trouble.  At this point, the world isn't going to come running to rescue of any of them..I think were in a "Let the fire burn it's self out and we'll help pick up  the pieces later." situation in the Middle East.
The tribes in that part of the world need to sort this crap out themselves. IMHO the world should have thrown it's hands up and let it burn starting about 30 years ago after they assassinated Sadat.
 
2014-07-18 05:28:10 PM

RoyBatty: And Iron Dome protection is likely ephemeral.


RoyBatty: TappingTheVein: Israel's effort to prevent civilian casualties is unparalleled in modern warfare, especially when Hamas' goal is to have as many dead palestinians as possible.

And Iron Dome protection is likely ephemeral.

In the past five years "Gazan" rockets (largely imported from elsewhere) have become much larger and much more sophisticated. I bet that give them a bit more fuel, a bit more of a navigational system, and they will become deadlier, more accurate, and more capable of outflying the current Iron Dome response.


Iv'e read some interesting articles about Iron Dome and how it's actually not that effective. One from an israeli missile expert. I've seen it prevent a missile hitting my city with my own eyes so i guess it's up for debate.
 
2014-07-18 05:36:00 PM

jayphat: So,is this a good assessment of the situation?


Here's the analogy I go with for the most recent events that have led us to where we are:

Imagine if you will, that Mormon missionaries have crossed the border into Mexico to establish small religious colonies in a weird view of manifest destiny.  Though not officially sanctioned or approved by the US government, nobody really does anything to stop them because it's a shiatty wasteland and the worst they could do is improve the place.

This pisses off the Mexican government and citizenry, who enlist the aid of the cartels to try to harass and threaten the Mormons off of the land.  Their attacks get more aggressive, and occasionally the Mormons start fighting back, even though it is against the law for them to do so.

(A lot of that actually IS happening in Mexico right now, but we'll stay on track.  This is where our reality begins to deviate from the metaphor.)

The cartel ups their attacks by firing rockets at the illegal Mormon colonies.  Many legal US citizens die.  All white, all Mormon, all Republican.  Pressure from the right mounts.  The US begins carrying out surgical strikes against the suspected sources of the rocket fire against the Mormons.

Utilizing their already extensive tunnel network, the cartels retaliate by staging a car-bombing campaign that targets chain coffee shops all across southern California.  The call for increased border security is now bipartisan and overwhelming- the US begins construction of a 20-foot high fence of concrete and concertina wire and establishes a mile-wide demilitarized zone on either side of it.  Checkpoints are strewn all along the southern border, and border security becomes America's fastest growing industry.

Central American narcostates begin funneling money and American-made heavy weaponry (thanks Ollie) to the Mexican cartels.  Salvos of medium range rockets begin streaking over the border.  Buildings are destroyed and Americans die first in Las Cruces and Tuscon, then in places like San Antonio and Austin.  Despite mounting pressure to destroy them all, America maintains its mission of precision strikes and tries to leave as little collateral damage as possible, though it now expands its operations to try to stem the flow of money and weapons from the south.  Naval blockades are implemented.

In San Diego, squads of highly trained cartel soldiers climb out of the water and open fire on beachgoers.  They fire shoulder-mounted missiles at our hotels.  They kidnap schoolkids and bury them in shallow graves.  They swear openly and publicly that they will not stop until the United States is destroyed and every American is dead.  And still, the government resists calls from both sides of the aisle to absolutely obliterate them militarily.

The United States begins sending troops into the border towns to rout cartel soldiers and drops bombs on the houses of their commanders, but only after sending them a pleasant message telling them they have 12 hours to evacuate.

In this situation, I really can't see the United States behaving with as much restraint as Israel has.
 
2014-07-18 05:41:14 PM

Why does the West continue to support the Zionist genocide of Arabs?

 
2014-07-18 05:44:30 PM
I don't really keep up on the goings-on of that area but does Israel ever send people to covertly blend in with the society of Gaza et al to determine who is lobbing things willy-nilly at them?
It seems to me if they could go there and infiltrate/recon the various groups responsible then they could nip it in the bud.
/Easier said than done, I imagine.
//Am indifferent to the plight of warring factions on that barren dirtpile. If we had the ability to create munitions that exclusively targeted the irrational then we'd have a lot less conflicts presently.
 
2014-07-18 05:47:51 PM

radarlove: jayphat: So,is this a good assessment of the situation?

Here's the analogy I go with for the most recent events that have led us to where we are:

Imagine if you will, that Mormon missionaries have crossed the border into Mexico to establish small religious colonies in a weird view of manifest destiny.  Though not officially sanctioned or approved by the US government, nobody really does anything to stop them because it's a shiatty wasteland and the worst they could do is improve the place.


I stopped reading here because anything else you say flows from a false premise. The Israeli settlers have been taking the best land in the West Bank from its rightful owners. This tends to piss off the rightful owners. And the Israeli government is not only not doing anything to stop them, it is actively protecting them from Palestinians while turning a blind eye to Israeli settler violence against Palestinians. Now the settlers do use the logic that the area is a "wasteland" and they plan to "improve" it. That's the same colonialist logic used to steal land from indigenous people the world over. Even if the Palestinians were not making the "best" use of the land (whatever that means), it does not give Israelis a right to steal it.

This is not to say that the Palestinians are the good guys, just that Israel loses any pretense of being the good guys with the illegal settlements and their on-going practical support for them.
 
2014-07-18 05:49:23 PM
For a long time leaders in the Middle East could direct a lot of the anger churning in their populations towards 'The Enemy,' an Orwellian Goldstein who happenens to have a lot of actua Goldsteins in the phone book. Some have gone as far as to say if Israel and all of its Goldsteins, Goldbergs and their like disappeared, the Middle East would be at peace.

This gambit is no longer working, and keeping the people of Gaza hemmed in against the Jewish State is outliving its strategic usefulness to the other leaders in the region as Iron Dome and physical walls are rendering asymmetric warfare less effective.

So what happens next? At best, Hamas disappears, Gaza and the West Bank form a united government and establish treaties with all their neighbours. At worst, Hamas commits collectibe suicide and Gaza is completely consumed. Somewhere in between, Israel re-occupies Gaza for the next 20 years...
 
2014-07-18 05:51:27 PM

Someothermonkey: radarlove: Considering their ancestors legendary tenacity and thoroughness in battle, I'd say the modern Israelis are showing a remarkable amount of restraint.

[s3.amazonaws.com image 500x206]

Yes, praise Israel for only killing 250+ Palestinians, a quarter of whom were kids. Because if they're not shown enough gratitude, they might kill a few hundred or thousand more. And it'll be the Palestinians fault for not appeasing the bully well enough.


I said remarkable- as in "something that bears remarking upon".  That is vastly different from praise.  And I completely stand by my statement- if these were the historical ancient Isrealites, we wouldn't be talking about hundreds or thousands but ALL.  ALL the dead people.  They tended to be a bit more thorough back then.  They liked having a sense of closure.
 
2014-07-18 05:53:13 PM

duffblue: Why does the West continue to support the Zionist genocide of Arabs?


Israel sure sucks at this whole genocide business.

On the other hand, if anyone is still paying attention, arabs have been slaughtering other arabs all over the Middle-East. Syria, Iraq,  Libya.

*crickets chirping*
 
2014-07-18 05:55:57 PM
Has anyone seen John Kerry anywhere...doing anything?

Anyone?

Beuller?
 
2014-07-18 06:01:08 PM

eiger: I stopped reading here because anything else you say flows from a false premise.


My point is that that is the prevailing sentiment of Americans in this hypothetical, not that that is the actual state of the land.  As in, "Who cares?  Let the Mormons have their fun!  What are they gonna do, wreck it?  At least they won't be here!  Might even improve the lives of those poor barbarians!"  Which is totally not a stretch for us, and is absolutely the attitude of many in Israel on the topic of Gaza settlements.

eiger: Now the settlers do use the logic that the area is a "wasteland" and they plan to "improve" it. That's the same colonialist logic used to steal land from indigenous people the world over.


Which is precisely what I was saying.

You may now continue reading the rest of my lengthy post.
 
2014-07-18 06:03:55 PM

duffblue: Why does the West continue to support the Zionist genocide of Arabs?


Hey dumbass, who do you think kills more Arabs/Muslims than anyone else? Give ya a hint, it ain't the Jews.

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/staggering-statistics -o n-muslims-killing-muslims-2/
 
2014-07-18 06:05:42 PM

duffblue: Why does the West continue to support the Zionist genocide of Arabs?


If Israel wanted to genocide the Arabs, they'd be gone already.  They have a very long history that is steeped in genocide, and they've been on both sides of it at varying points.  I'm pretty sure that after the last one they've lost their taste for it altogether.
 
2014-07-18 06:06:52 PM

duffblue: Why does the West continue to support the Zionist genocide of Arabs?


Why won't we stop the Muslim genocide of Muslims???


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/surprising-study-on-terror is m-al-qaida-kills-eight-times-more-muslims-than-non-muslims-a-660619.ht ml
 
2014-07-18 06:09:54 PM

TappingTheVein: LordJiro: Hamas fires rockets, (that rarely hit anyone and certainly don't kill anywhere near as many Israelis as Israelis kill Palestinians)  though!

This logic always amazes me. Tell me, if i bomb your city with thousands of missiles but you'll be in your bomb shelter because you ran for your life for the 15 seconds you get to do so, you'll just shrug it off ? see, no one died! it was nothing. Your children won't be affected in any way, right ? no harm done, no need to do something to prevent the hourly bombardment of your city.

Please explain this logic to me, i'm honestly curious.


Because genocide of an entire people is a rational response to terrorism
 
2014-07-18 06:11:14 PM

vernonFL: It seems like Hamas has lost. Arab governments no longer support it, and its not doing much good for the people in Gaza.

It seems to me that Hamas should re-structure itself, fast.


I like how Israel restructures Hamas. Y'know, into pieces.

Terrorists aren't part of the Geneva convention. That's not to say when you catch one it's okay to torture him. What I mean is they don't follow the accepted rules of international warfare. At all. They use human shields, target civilians, and are generally reprehensible. Hence why they're called terrorists not soldiers.

The existence and practices of Hamas means that Israel is always the good guys by comparison. Yes, even when they bulldoze people's houses and steal their land while keeping an entire nation illegally walled up. If Hamas didn't exist, things would be better for Palastine.
 
2014-07-18 06:16:05 PM

Warlordtrooper: Because genocide of an entire people is a rational response to terrorism


Since there is no genocide (or Israel is just extremely terrible at it), can you try again ?
 
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