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(Uproxx)   Did Ned Stark himself just confirm the most popular Game of Thrones fan theory? Book reader self-righteousness is coming   (uproxx.com) divider line 138
    More: Interesting, Sean Bean, Game of Thrones, Jon Snow, Kit Harington, IT', vultures, just a theory, Westeros  
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8697 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 18 Jul 2014 at 10:51 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



138 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-07-18 10:31:15 AM  
Pretty sure Maury Povich let this cat out of the bag a while back.
 
2014-07-18 10:44:50 AM  
and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.
 
2014-07-18 10:55:58 AM  
R+L=J is pretty much canon at this point. I would rather have some spoilers to confirm my insane theory that Meera is Ned Stark and Ashara Dane's bastard.
 
F42
2014-07-18 10:56:50 AM  

Shostie: I shall wear no crowns


Which is why Ned was going to tell him about his mum AFTER he swore that.

But with what happened at the end of the last book, there's a way out of his vows.
 
2014-07-18 10:57:30 AM  
geekologie.com


i1.wp.com
 
2014-07-18 11:01:07 AM  

Shostie: I shall live and die at my post. I


Might be more relevant.
 
2014-07-18 11:01:33 AM  

F42: Shostie: I shall wear no crowns

Which is why Ned was going to tell him about his mum AFTER he swore that.

But with what happened at the end of the last book, there's a way out of his vows.


That's exactly what I think is going to happen. I think Stannis is behind that (with an assist coming from Melisandre).
 
2014-07-18 11:02:25 AM  

Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.


To continue with book spoilers: Jon Snow did of course die at his post, therefore his watch should be done.
 
2014-07-18 11:02:31 AM  

F42: Shostie: I shall wear no crowns

Which is why Ned was going to tell him about his mum AFTER he swore that.

But with what happened at the end of the last book, there's a way out of his vows.


Yeah there's a good chance he fulfilled his vows.
 
2014-07-18 11:04:01 AM  
FTFA:  What is that theory? It's the R+J=L theory, and if you really want to know, then watch the video."

Huh, now, see, that's a theory I'm not at all familiar with.

But I am very interested in seeing some hot, hot R+J  sex scenes.
 
2014-07-18 11:06:42 AM  
Well Sean Bean is the walking spoiler
 
2014-07-18 11:07:37 AM  

Omnis_evil_twin: FTFA:  What is that theory? It's the R+J=L theory, and if you really want to know, then watch the video."

Huh, now, see, that's a theory I'm not at all familiar with.

But I am very interested in seeing some hot, hot R+J  sex scenes.


I think we need some S+D+M+C+M scenes...

Sansa
Daenarys
Melisandre
Cersi
Margaery

WHO'S WITH ME??
 
2014-07-18 11:07:44 AM  
Also once he is revived as Azor Ahai and the others take down the wall and the Night's Watch ceases to be, he is then free from his vows to join his cousin Dany, who is now married to Jon's half-brother, to fight his other cousin Bran who has now become the Great Other.

....possibly.
 
2014-07-18 11:11:44 AM  
I don't know why people care so much about fulfilling vows and who is in line for the Iron Throne. Bloodline is only important in the end for who the three heads of the dragon are. The Iron Throne is probably one of the greatest MacGuffins in history, because the story has at its backbone a running theme that might makes right. As Viserys, Stannis, and every other dead king or claimant know, you need an army to back it up.

In the end the fight is against the Others.
 
2014-07-18 11:12:05 AM  

F42: Shostie: I shall wear no crowns

Which is why Ned was going to tell him about his mum AFTER he swore that.

But with what happened at the end of the last book, there's a way out of his vows.


***BOOK SPOILERS***

That is a legit theory to get out of his vows, but how would he stake his claim to the throne?

In the first book Ned has a signed letter from Robert laying out what would happen upon his death and Cersei ripped it up.  Are people really going to take a bastard's word that he is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar and has a legit claim to the throne?

Unless the theory that he is reborn as Azor Ahai is true, then I'm guessing he will just do whatever he wants after kicking the shiat out of the Others.
 
2014-07-18 11:12:29 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-18 11:13:17 AM  

Omnis_evil_twin: FTFA:  What is that theory? It's the R+J=L theory, and if you really want to know, then watch the video."

Huh, now, see, that's a theory I'm not at all familiar with.

But I am very interested in seeing some hot, hot R+J  sex scenes.


I'm curious as to who carried Lyanna to term.
 
2014-07-18 11:20:01 AM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Omnis_evil_twin: FTFA:  What is that theory? It's the R+J=L theory, and if you really want to know, then watch the video."

Huh, now, see, that's a theory I'm not at all familiar with.

But I am very interested in seeing some hot, hot R+J  sex scenes.

I'm curious as to who carried Lyanna to term.


The septa school marm that travels around with Griff and Young Griff.  Tyrion even remarked that her body showed signs of having some babbys..
 
2014-07-18 11:20:15 AM  

Obscure Login: but how would he stake his claim to the throne


The same way Robert did? Cave someones chest in and then say "eh i got a targaryan great aunt".
 
2014-07-18 11:20:30 AM  

Madewithrealbitsofpanther: Also once he is revived as Azor Ahai and the others take down the wall and the Night's Watch ceases to be, he is then free from his vows to join his cousin Dany, who is now married to Jon's half-brother, to fight his other cousin Bran who has now become the Great Other.

....possibly.


Dany is his aunt, not his cousin
 
2014-07-18 11:20:59 AM  

Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.


In addition to those who pointed out that Jon has an out by way of dying, that vow only really matters as long as the Night's Watch exists.  I could see it being dissolved at some point, especially if Stannis gets his way, or the Other threat is neutralized.
 
2014-07-18 11:23:24 AM  
I'm still hoping for the theory of Arya actually seeing one of her family members again.
 
2014-07-18 11:23:42 AM  

chionophile: Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.

In addition to those who pointed out that Jon has an out by way of dying, that vow only really matters as long as the Night's Watch exists.  I could see it being dissolved at some point, especially if Stannis gets his way, or the Other threat is neutralized.


As a Targaryen, Jon will be one of the three "heads of the dragon". He'll ride one of the non-Drogon dragons north to a) wipe out the Others and then b) melt down the Wall
 
2014-07-18 11:25:05 AM  

litespeed74: I'm still hoping for the theory of Arya actually seeing one of her family members again.


She could join up with Stoneheart to exact sweet, sweet revenge on the Freys and Boltons
 
2014-07-18 11:25:24 AM  

Derwood: Dany is his aunt, not his cousin


Yeah I screwed that one up. Also I doubt Aegon is actually Jon's half brother, Varys is a Blackfyre plant!
 
2014-07-18 11:26:33 AM  
What is that theory? It's the R+J=L theory,

So its a time-travel, incest, homosexuals that somehow get pregnant theory? Interesting.
 
2014-07-18 11:30:29 AM  

facisto: What is that theory? It's the R+J=L theory,

So its a time-travel, incest, homosexuals that somehow get pregnant theory? Interesting.


Hardly.  It's almost run of the mill vanilla compared to fanfiction.
 
2014-07-18 11:32:15 AM  

Derwood: chionophile: Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.

In addition to those who pointed out that Jon has an out by way of dying, that vow only really matters as long as the Night's Watch exists.  I could see it being dissolved at some point, especially if Stannis gets his way, or the Other threat is neutralized.

As a Targaryen, Jon will be one of the three "heads of the dragon". He'll ride one of the non-Drogon dragons north to a) wipe out the Others and then b) melt down the Wall


But not before he meets with a Princess who calls him by the reader's name and tells him the world is falling apart because the reader doesn't believe hard enough.
 
2014-07-18 11:33:46 AM  

chionophile: Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.

In addition to those who pointed out that Jon has an out by way of dying, that vow only really matters as long as the Night's Watch exists.  I could see it being dissolved at some point, especially if Stannis gets his way, or the Other threat is neutralized.


Wouldn't it be just a total "fark you" from GRRM if Jon really was Ned's son?

"Hahaha!  You guys spent years of your life arguing over Jon Snow's parentage and it was Ned all long!"
-GRRM
 
2014-07-18 11:34:08 AM  

SpoilerAlert: Derwood: chionophile: Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.

In addition to those who pointed out that Jon has an out by way of dying, that vow only really matters as long as the Night's Watch exists.  I could see it being dissolved at some point, especially if Stannis gets his way, or the Other threat is neutralized.

As a Targaryen, Jon will be one of the three "heads of the dragon". He'll ride one of the non-Drogon dragons north to a) wipe out the Others and then b) melt down the Wall

But not before he meets with a Princess who calls him by the reader's name and tells him the world is falling apart because the reader doesn't believe hard enough.


Well, I'll tell that gal tough shiat, the book sucks because the horse died.
 
2014-07-18 11:37:32 AM  
Nabb1:

Well, I'll tell that gal tough shiat, the book sucks because the horse died.

That movie ticket should have come with one free session of child therapy
 
2014-07-18 11:39:03 AM  

Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.


Because Game of Thrones is all about people with a legitimate bloodline claim becoming King.
 
2014-07-18 11:40:52 AM  
I'm sure, knowing the way Martin's been writing lately, that the real father is some character who will be introduced in a chapter all to himself, be a totally unlikeable character for about 5 chapters, and then die sometime in the 3rd act of the story.
 
2014-07-18 11:41:06 AM  

Derwood: Nabb1:

Well, I'll tell that gal tough shiat, the book sucks because the horse died.

That movie ticket should have come with one free session of child therapy


Which was worse?  The movie that scarred our young minds with the dying horse or the book where the dying horse can talk and actually begs Atreyu to leave him to die?
 
2014-07-18 11:44:10 AM  

Shostie: and it potentially gives him a claim to the Iron Throne
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
Of course, depending on who's in power these words can be disregarded, but Jon isn't the type to shrug this off. Besides (BOOK SPOILERS FOR YOU FILTHY TV WATCHERS) Stannis offered him Winterfell and legitimacy and he refused.


I assume that is the entire purpose behind Maester Aemon's backstory - to show how seriously the Ngiht's Watch vows are taken. Otherwise, Aemon have been on the pokey chair himself as soon as Jaime ventilated the Mad King (I think Aemon's birthright would technically give him a stronger claim than Viserys had).

Obscure Login: That is a legit theory to get out of his vows, but how would he stake his claim to the throne?
In the first book Ned has a signed letter from Robert laying out what would happen upon his death and Cersei ripped it up.  Are people really going to take a bastard's word that he is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar and has a legit claim to the throne?


Howland Reed may have some sort of evidence - he was also present with Ned when Lyanna died.
 
2014-07-18 11:45:48 AM  

I am Wee Todd Ed: Wouldn't it be just a total "fark you" from GRRM if Jon really was Ned's son?


I always took it at face value that he was Ned's son because Catelyn has that line (thought), about how Jon and Arya look like Ned, and that's a double whammy for her -- Arya is ugly and Arya reminds her of Jon who she hates.

Of course everything with Melisandre seems to be laying the groundwork for something else, but I imagine in the end RRM will raise fan hopes and then crush them.
 
2014-07-18 11:46:01 AM  

Derwood: Nabb1:

Well, I'll tell that gal tough shiat, the book sucks because the horse died.

That movie ticket should have come with one free session of child therapy




upload.wikimedia.org

This poor guy was out of his prime by the time he was like eleven.

www.neverendingstory.com

Childlike Empress seems to have turned out well.
 
2014-07-18 11:46:01 AM  
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:

weknowmemes.com


38.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-18 11:47:10 AM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: I don't know why people care so much about fulfilling vows and who is in line for the Iron Throne. Bloodline is only important in the end for who the three heads of the dragon are. The Iron Throne is probably one of the greatest MacGuffins in history, because the story has at its backbone a running theme that might makes right. As Viserys, Stannis, and every other dead king or claimant know, you need an army to back it up.

In the end the fight is against the Others.


Exactly. The whole point of the books is that nobody becomes king by playing by the rules.
 
2014-07-18 11:47:31 AM  
The big problem (that no one seems to talk about) is that Jon is STILL a bastard, regardless of who his parents are. Unless a reigning king/lord offers him legitimacy, he still has no claim to the crown
 
2014-07-18 11:53:14 AM  
Since when is an actor an authority?

Jaden Smith First of His Name: R+L=J is pretty much canon at this point. I would rather have some spoilers to confirm my insane theory that Meera is Ned Stark and Ashara Dane's bastard.


Goddammit the whole Rhaegar thing rests on Ned being faithful, jackass.
 
2014-07-18 11:57:18 AM  

moothemagiccow: Since when is an actor an authority?

Jaden Smith First of His Name: R+L=J is pretty much canon at this point. I would rather have some spoilers to confirm my insane theory that Meera is Ned Stark and Ashara Dane's bastard.

Goddammit the whole Rhaegar thing rests on Ned being faithful, jackass.


The Winds of Winter will introduce Fred Stark, Ned's long lost twin, who will be played on the TV show by Ted McGinley.
 
2014-07-18 11:58:21 AM  

Derwood: The big problem (that no one seems to talk about) is that Jon is STILL a bastard, regardless of who his parents are. Unless a reigning king/lord offers him legitimacy, he still has no claim to the crown


I believe there is precedent for Targaryen princes taking two lawful wives.
 
2014-07-18 12:01:33 PM  

Derwood: The big problem (that no one seems to talk about) is that Jon is STILL a bastard, regardless of who his parents are. Unless a reigning king/lord offers him legitimacy, he still has no claim to the crown


Didn't Robb send his men with a sealed message legitimizing Jon and offering him Winterfell before the Red Wedding? The message is in the ether of Westeros though.  Either way, Stannis would surely do that, he already offered to.
 
2014-07-18 12:01:46 PM  

clkeagle: Derwood: The big problem (that no one seems to talk about) is that Jon is STILL a bastard, regardless of who his parents are. Unless a reigning king/lord offers him legitimacy, he still has no claim to the crown

I believe there is precedent for Targaryen princes taking two lawful wives.


But Rhaegar and Lyanna weren't married. He kidnapped her, raped her, and then she died giving birth to Jon.
 
2014-07-18 12:02:33 PM  

Obscure Login: F42: Shostie: I shall wear no crowns

Which is why Ned was going to tell him about his mum AFTER he swore that.

But with what happened at the end of the last book, there's a way out of his vows.

***BOOK SPOILERS***

That is a legit theory to get out of his vows, but how would he stake his claim to the throne?

In the first book Ned has a signed letter from Robert laying out what would happen upon his death and Cersei ripped it up.  Are people really going to take a bastard's word that he is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar and has a legit claim to the throne?

Unless the theory that he is reborn as Azor Ahai is true, then I'm guessing he will just do whatever he wants after kicking the shiat out of the Others.


Stannis right now has the best claim to the throne. He's pretty honourable, so he may give it up if it emerges Jon is the true king.
 
2014-07-18 12:02:56 PM  

Derwood: The big problem (that no one seems to talk about) is that Jon is STILL a bastard, regardless of who his parents are. Unless a reigning king/lord offers him legitimacy, he still has no claim to the crown


Secret marriage means legitimacy.


Also, this is basically canon already.  The fact that is foreshadowed in this way means that if it doesn't happen Martin is a shiatty writer.  This wouldn't be a swerve or a twist, it would be legitimately him changing the story or being bad at foreshadowing.
 
2014-07-18 12:03:23 PM  

moothemagiccow: Since when is an actor an authority?

Jaden Smith First of His Name: R+L=J is pretty much canon at this point. I would rather have some spoilers to confirm my insane theory that Meera is Ned Stark and Ashara Dane's bastard.

Goddammit the whole Rhaegar thing rests on Ned being faithful, jackass.


Sadly I created the theory to avoid a greater cheesy tragedy, that Meera is Jon's twin and Ned and Howland split them up Star Wars style.
 
2014-07-18 12:04:47 PM  

Derwood: clkeagle: Derwood: The big problem (that no one seems to talk about) is that Jon is STILL a bastard, regardless of who his parents are. Unless a reigning king/lord offers him legitimacy, he still has no claim to the crown

I believe there is precedent for Targaryen princes taking two lawful wives.

But Rhaegar and Lyanna weren't married. He kidnapped her, raped her, and then she died giving birth to Jon.


Well, that's the common belief.  By all acounts, Rhaegar was the most attractive man in the realm.  So, in a choice between that and Rob Bathereon, I think she ran away with him and everyone else called it a kidnapping because they could use it as an excuse to overthrow Aerys II.
 
2014-07-18 12:05:05 PM  

Derwood: He kidnapped her, raped her, and then she died giving birth to Jon.


Says Robert. Others say they ran off together and were deeply in love.
 
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