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(CNN)   Ukraine: Separatists didn't take anti-aircraft equipment from OUR military *cough cough* *hint hint*   (cnn.com) divider line 187
    More: Followup, Prime Minister of Ukraine, Organization for Security, Cooperation in Europe, flight data recorders, OSCE, Eastern Ukraine, United Nations Security Council, Luhansk  
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7283 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jul 2014 at 11:43 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-18 12:24:13 PM  

ongbok: They have already deployed Blackwater contractors in Donetsk. So it wouldn't be nothing to them to do this.

Study it out.


You mean the photoshopped Russian Propaganda that wouldn't even pass an entry into a FARK contest?
 
2014-07-18 12:24:39 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: iheartscotch: Well, we all know if I had any actual proof; hold on, there's someone at the door....

/ I'm not saying that it was the CIA; I'm just saying that I am reserving judgment for a later date

Yes. You're very "concerned." Because it's so likely that the CIA got a giant Buk launching truck into a war zone right in Russia's backyard, pretended to be rebels, shot down an airliner, faked rebel phone transmissions, and then GTFO without anyone noticing. Certainly, we must reserve judgment until we are absolutely sure that ridiculous scenario didn't play out.


I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.
 
2014-07-18 12:25:33 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: Don't you get it? This website and all of the "data" within WERE PLANTED BY THE CIA! Because America wants and needs another costly war


Oh my god. Don't believe this asshole. He believes anything the chip the CIA planted in his head tells him to. Every time he tries to sleep, it gives him an electric shock so that he'll go post some more bullshiat on some website. Between the sleep deprivation and shocks, he's going to drink himself to death in about four weeks. But there's plenty more of them out there.
 
2014-07-18 12:26:34 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: mschwenk: Not really. Its absolutely no proof whatsoever.

It's a taped confession. You can't do much better than that. They still need to be absolutely clear that it wasn't faked, OF COURSE, but to claim that it's "no proof whatsoever" when you combine it with the other facts -- the plane was shot down over rebel territory, we have photographic evidence and a public admission from the rebels that they had Buk launchters, eye-witnesses in the area saw the missile launch, etc., etc., etc. -- to say that it's "absolutely no proof whatsoever" is retarded.


Not really. We got proof that somebody said it. They didn't identify themselves as rebels or anyone else. Besides, why would they ostensibly be shooting at Russian transports if they are pro-Russian?
 
2014-07-18 12:27:01 PM  

iheartscotch: I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.


www.blogcdn.com

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS. I'M THE ONLY ONE BRAVE ENOUGH LEFT TO DO SO. WAS IT GARGAMEL THAT SHOT DOWN MH-17? WAS IT PART OF THE SMURF GENOCIDE? OR WAS IT LORD XENU?
 
2014-07-18 12:27:20 PM  

dywed88: There is a difference between "Russia" and "pro-Russian separatists".



There is a difference, but it's basically the difference between "salaried employee" and "independent contractor on a year long gig".  They both serve the same master.
 
2014-07-18 12:27:52 PM  

iheartscotch: shower_in_my_socks: iheartscotch: Well, we all know if I had any actual proof; hold on, there's someone at the door....

/ I'm not saying that it was the CIA; I'm just saying that I am reserving judgment for a later date

Yes. You're very "concerned." Because it's so likely that the CIA got a giant Buk launching truck into a war zone right in Russia's backyard, pretended to be rebels, shot down an airliner, faked rebel phone transmissions, and then GTFO without anyone noticing. Certainly, we must reserve judgment until we are absolutely sure that ridiculous scenario didn't play out.

I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.


Exactly. It could even be a troll for all we know.
 
2014-07-18 12:29:13 PM  

ongbok: shower_in_my_socks: iheartscotch: Well, we all know if I had any actual proof; hold on, there's someone at the door....

/ I'm not saying that it was the CIA; I'm just saying that I am reserving judgment for a later date

Yes. You're very "concerned." Because it's so likely that the CIA got a giant Buk launching truck into a war zone right in Russia's backyard, pretended to be rebels, shot down an airliner, faked rebel phone transmissions, and then GTFO without anyone noticing. Certainly, we must reserve judgment until we are absolutely sure that ridiculous scenario didn't play out.

They have already deployed Blackwater contractors in Donetsk. So it wouldn't be nothing to them to do this.

Study it out.


Well, if it's from The Daily Mail it has to be dead-on.
 
2014-07-18 12:29:45 PM  
well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.
 
2014-07-18 12:30:14 PM  

iheartscotch: shower_in_my_socks: iheartscotch: Does this sound like a frame job to anybody else? It wouldn't be the first time the CIA shot down a passenger jet.

If the recorded conversations between rebels talking about the fact that they just shot the plane down are real, then no.

Random sound clips of guys speaking in foreign languages, or were they talking in English, or were there subs?

/ that's a big If you've got there


You assume, falsely of course, that there is nobody on here who speaks Russian.

This isn't a damn Downfall remix we're talking about.
 
2014-07-18 12:31:00 PM  
I loved the way that Putin channeled the Tea Party and the GOP and blamed Ukraine for this saying this wouldn't have happened if there had been peace on that land or if there weren't any military operations by the Ukrainian government. You mean the peace that you destroyed and the military operations you forced the Ukrainian government into by sending troops into Ukraine and starting an uprising? Just like a GOP'er.
 
2014-07-18 12:31:30 PM  

vudukungfu: Hey. Don't fly over conflict zones.
Russia/Ukraine, Palestine/Israel, TX-AZ/Mexico border.
Just don't
Get direct TV and stay home.


8/10
 
2014-07-18 12:32:43 PM  
good thing all you communists with a hard on for midget man kept supporting his actions and it led to 100 of the top AIDS researchers getting blown up just because Putin wants to make up for his midget sized dick huh

http://www.smh.com.au/national/crash-claims-top-aids-researchers-hea di ng-to-melbourne-20140718-zuaw3.html#ixzz37mkAFtTn


maybe we'll get lucky and you'll all get aids
 
2014-07-18 12:34:10 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: It's a taped confession.


There are 3 separate tapes there. First one: the person recorded says that some "Miner's group" claims that they (Miner's group) shot down the plane, so the person recorded is going to investigate.

Second tape: another recorded person, not from the first tape, says that Chernukhino's cossacks claim that they (Chernukhino's cossacks) shot down the plane and is investigating.

I don't think that any of those obscure groups (especially not cossacks) would be in possession of the single Buk separatists supposedly had (likely actually had, by the way).

Separatists lie and boasts a lot. They could simply notice falling plane and try to take credit; "strategy" that backfired when it turned out it's a passenger liner.

I'm actually think that it was separatists who shoot the plane, because of that video showing the Buk being moved, but those confessions are not confessions at all. They are repeats of rumors and hearsay at best.
 
2014-07-18 12:34:52 PM  

vudukungfu: Hey. Don't fly over conflict zones.
Russia/Ukraine, Palestine/Israel, TX-AZ/Mexico border.
Just don't
Get direct TV and stay home.


half the plane was researchers going to an AIDS conference.  So in your perfect world, there would be no one devoting their lives to saving others?  How the fark is your TV going to be in your home, if no one leaves their home to make the TV, and no one leaves their home to deliver your TV, and no one leaves their home to make content for the TV, and no one leaves their home to build the electric generation for your TV, and no one leaves their home to build your home?
 
2014-07-18 12:36:02 PM  

Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.


We had a no fly zone over Crimea, but not anything over mainland Ukraine. Apparently this is a regular route they run about once a day.
 
2014-07-18 12:37:15 PM  
 
2014-07-18 12:37:40 PM  

Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.


Yeah, a commercial air corridor on the way to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam just seems so weird doesn't it?  Why didn't they take a route that went over the North Pole, and then range down across the Bering Strait, adding thousands of miles to the trip?

Don't get me wrong. There will be a lot of air traffic that is just going to avoid Ukraine airspace for a long while now, and I'm sure that won't affect their economic outlook in the least...
 
2014-07-18 12:38:03 PM  

Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.


There was a no-fly zone and they were outside of it. Along with lots of other traffic.

You can certainly make a case for avoiding the area, but in general an airliner at 33,000 feet is perfectly safe from just about everything, unless the national government of a fairly advanced country decides to shoot it down - as you need some serious kit to reach a target like that.

In this case it seems like the Russians turned over a big-boy-weapon to the control of a bunch of farking idiots. I'm not going to blame Malaysian airlines for that.
 
2014-07-18 12:38:15 PM  

hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.



I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS. I'M THE ONLY ONE BRAVE ENOUGH LEFT TO DO SO. WAS IT GARGAMEL THAT SHOT DOWN MH-17? WAS IT PART OF THE SMURF GENOCIDE? OR WAS IT LORD XENU?


Do you, honestly, believe everything our government and our news sources tell us? They lie to us every single day. Every.Single.Day. Just look at the whole NSA thing.

/ I know I'm going to receive a lot of flack for saying that; at this point, I don't really care.
 
2014-07-18 12:38:27 PM  
"Russian President Vladimir Putin pointed the finger back at Ukraine, blaming its recent tough military operations against separatists for the volatility in the region. "


So... "Guys I like" did it. but it is someone elses's fault because someone else isn't doing what "Guys I like" want and they forced "Guys I like" into action.

Sounds vaguely familiar.
 
2014-07-18 12:39:39 PM  

Grungehamster: Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.

We had a no fly zone over Crimea, but not anything over mainland Ukraine. Apparently this is a regular route they run about once a day.


Which suggests that locals would be familiar with the regular air traffic.

Which suggests that...  Anyone?

/Bueller?
 
2014-07-18 12:39:58 PM  

Grungehamster: Here is the audio in question, with subtitles.


Subtitles are mostly correct, with just minor differences (for example, when in English the guy says something about "dropping spies"), what he says in Russian is more like "hell if I know, they were moving spies into the country or whatever, it's war, why the f..k be here at all".

I don't consider it a major confession, though, it's mostly a repeat of hearsay ("some group claimed they've shot the plane...")
 
2014-07-18 12:40:00 PM  

Grahor: shower_in_my_socks: It's a taped confession.

There are 3 separate tapes there. First one: the person recorded says that some "Miner's group" claims that they (Miner's group) shot down the plane, so the person recorded is going to investigate.

Second tape: another recorded person, not from the first tape, says that Chernukhino's cossacks claim that they (Chernukhino's cossacks) shot down the plane and is investigating.

I don't think that any of those obscure groups (especially not cossacks) would be in possession of the single Buk separatists supposedly had (likely actually had, by the way).

Separatists lie and boasts a lot. They could simply notice falling plane and try to take credit; "strategy" that backfired when it turned out it's a passenger liner.

I'm actually think that it was separatists who shoot the plane, because of that video showing the Buk being moved, but those confessions are not confessions at all. They are repeats of rumors and hearsay at best.


And Ukraine has absolutely NO reason to fire at any aircraft at this point.  The seperatists have none and there is no way that Ukraine is firing on a Russian aircraft even after having one of theirs reportedly shot down by a fighter the other day.
 
2014-07-18 12:40:36 PM  

iheartscotch: Do you, honestly, believe everything our government and our news sources tell us? They lie to us every single day. Every.Single.Day. Just look at the whole NSA thing.


You're right, you're right.

Must have been Lord Xenu. Curse him!
 
2014-07-18 12:40:59 PM  

Geotpf: dywed88: There is a difference between "Russia" and "pro-Russian separatists".


There is a difference, but it's basically the difference between "salaried employee" and "independent contractor on a year long gig".  They both serve the same master.


There is a hell of a lot of difference if the Russian army shot it down or so Ukranian separatists did.
 
2014-07-18 12:42:01 PM  

iheartscotch: hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS. I'M THE ONLY ONE BRAVE ENOUGH LEFT TO DO SO. WAS IT GARGAMEL THAT SHOT DOWN MH-17? WAS IT PART OF THE SMURF GENOCIDE? OR WAS IT LORD XENU?

Do you, honestly, believe everything our government and our news sources tell us? They lie to us every single day. Every.Single.Day. Just look at the whole NSA thing.

/ I know I'm going to receive a lot of flack for saying that; at this point, I don't really care.


You mean the NSA story that every media outlet in the country has been whailing on about since the story broke?

Yeah, totally swept under the rug.
 
2014-07-18 12:42:55 PM  

dywed88: There is a hell of a lot of difference if the Russian army shot it down or so Ukranian separatists did.


Russian Army or Russian Seperatists, either way I'm willing to bet that the SA-17 crew that did this is now lying in a shallow grave in the woods of the Ukraine or Russia somewhere.

Dead men don't tell tales.
 
2014-07-18 12:45:03 PM  

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: iheartscotch: shower_in_my_socks: iheartscotch: Does this sound like a frame job to anybody else? It wouldn't be the first time the CIA shot down a passenger jet.

If the recorded conversations between rebels talking about the fact that they just shot the plane down are real, then no.

Random sound clips of guys speaking in foreign languages, or were they talking in English, or were there subs?

/ that's a big If you've got there

You assume, falsely of course, that there is nobody on here who speaks Russian.

This isn't a damn Downfall remix we're talking about.


I speak, on a really good day, about 5 words in Russian. I imagine there are some Russian speakers on here; fark is too big for there not to be a couple on here who know what the backwards 3 means. The speakers using Russian doesn't really prove much.

/ I imagine one can hear Russian in certain Brooklyn cafés
 
2014-07-18 12:45:51 PM  

Grungehamster: Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.

We had a no fly zone over Crimea, but not anything over mainland Ukraine. Apparently this is a regular route they run about once a day.


That FAA restriction only applies to American aircraft; it's not up to the US to set airspace restrictions for that territory. That said, the actual controlling agency issued a NOTAM a few days ago restricting flight to above 33,000 feet in the area where this happened.
 
2014-07-18 12:45:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: Thanks, assholes. Now how many countless more are going to die because you idiots set back HIV/AIDS research?


I'm sure this didn't set AIDS research back 10 years. It isn't like their AIDS secrets and research went down in flames with them to never be recovered again. Their work is all documented and these guys all had plenty of other researchers they worked with and assistants that knew what they were doing and will be able to carry on their work.

It is truly a shame that so many people who were working towards making the world a better place died so senselessly because Putin had to show the world how powerful he is, but lets not got an exaggerate and say that this is going to set AIDS research back 10 years. Lets be realistic here.
 
2014-07-18 12:47:12 PM  

danzak: And Ukraine has absolutely NO reason to fire at any aircraft at this point.


I one hundred percent agree with that. Even if Ukrainians were going to shoot a Russian aircraft, it wouldn't have happened with a plane on commercial heights flying from west to east.

No, if the aircraft was shot down (bloody likely) it was shot down by the rebels, and if rebels had the Buk, they've got either it or training to use it from Russia, because, in my reasoning, using the Buk demands training and the only ones who could provide it is Russia. Plus that video of the Buk moved.

*sigh* none of that matter much, though. Another terrible tragedy to add to mounting number of dead civilians, women and children in Eastern Ukraine. Nothing will change.
 
2014-07-18 12:48:23 PM  

ongbok: It is truly a shame that so many people who were working towards making the world a better place died so senselessly because Putin had to show the world how powerful he is, but lets not got an exaggerate and say that this is going to set AIDS research back 10 years. Lets be realistic here.


Some of the representatives of the research agencies and colleges these men represented are going so far as to say the future cure of HIV was on that flight.

The data might be there, but the men of vision who were driving the breakthroughs based on that data are now dead and gone.
 
2014-07-18 12:49:59 PM  

dywed88: Wow, people really should have headline writers at least read the first sentance of the article.

There is a difference between "Russia" and "pro-Russian separatists".

And "we cannot rule out Russian assistance" is not the same as saying "we believe Russia shot the plane down".


Most of the "pro-Russian" separatists are Russians.  As in they've lived in Russia all their lives and are only fighting as separatists under recruitment, training, paying, orders and supplied by Russia.

That makes this a Russia issue.
 
2014-07-18 12:50:25 PM  
Wow. It's not often you hear a government spokesperson use the phrase "all these bastards."
 
2014-07-18 12:51:51 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Ukraine: "We're not sure who PUT IN that missile launcher, and we don't want to RUSH IN to pass judgment, and hope that no one will MASK HOW it happened."


Haha that's awesome.
 
2014-07-18 12:54:22 PM  

iheartscotch: I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.


What I'm saying is that right now it's like 99% that Russians or Ukraine rebels did this, and 1% that they didn't, based on a lot of hard evidence beyond just an intercepted phone call/radio transmission. Those two theories don't deserve to be presented as equally possible. The one that is currently backed by all of the facts gets the attention until something major proves otherwise.
 
2014-07-18 12:54:50 PM  
so how is rothchild involved with this one? aids treament patents? worried about curing their aids virus? stopping overpopulation?
 
2014-07-18 12:54:56 PM  

cwheelie: Hey Snowden - we INTERCEPTED phone calls that show your friends are complicit in the deaths of 250 people. Karma's a beyotch. Coming home anytime soon?


lame
 
2014-07-18 12:55:26 PM  

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: iheartscotch: hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: I'm not saying that the CIA definitely did it. It could have been the GRU, dissident elements of the Russian government or little green men from Mars. The point is; we don't know really who done it at this point. It will probably end up being the Rebel Alliance; but, speculation at this point is, by definition, unfounded.

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS. I'M THE ONLY ONE BRAVE ENOUGH LEFT TO DO SO. WAS IT GARGAMEL THAT SHOT DOWN MH-17? WAS IT PART OF THE SMURF GENOCIDE? OR WAS IT LORD XENU?

Do you, honestly, believe everything our government and our news sources tell us? They lie to us every single day. Every.Single.Day. Just look at the whole NSA thing.

/ I know I'm going to receive a lot of flack for saying that; at this point, I don't really care.

You mean the NSA story that every media outlet in the country has been whailing on about since the story broke?

Yeah, totally swept under the rug.


They'd been, conceivably, doing it with total secrecy since the Patriot act passed. And, probably, before then. That's at least a decade before they were found out.
 
2014-07-18 12:56:52 PM  

hardinparamedic: ongbok: It is truly a shame that so many people who were working towards making the world a better place died so senselessly because Putin had to show the world how powerful he is, but lets not got an exaggerate and say that this is going to set AIDS research back 10 years. Lets be realistic here.

Some of the representatives of the research agencies and colleges these men represented are going so far as to say the future cure of HIV was on that flight.

The data might be there, but the men of vision who were driving the breakthroughs based on that data are now dead and gone.


You don't think they passed on this knowledge or vision to other capable researchers? Or do you think that they were the 100 and only kept this knowledge and vision amongst themselves, and know it is lost for ever?
 
2014-07-18 12:57:12 PM  

Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.


That sounds suspiciously like victim-blaming.
 
2014-07-18 12:57:15 PM  
Just leaving it here... Link

June 29 - Terrorist groups in eastern Ukraine boast on social networks that they have in their possession Buk anti-missile systems, capable of hitting airborne targets at the altitude of 25 kilometers - higher than cruise altitude of commercial airlines. MH17, which was shot down on July 17, was flying at 10 kilometers. However, the Buks in possession of terrorists were broken and unusable, which had been admitted by their representatives.

July 14 - SBU taps a conversation that presents the first evidence that terrorist units have in their possession the anti-missile system Buk, which is capable of hitting targets at a significant altitude. But at the time there was no other confirmation of its location on the territory of Ukraine at the time. This is a conversation between "Oleg" Bugrov Oleg Yevgenievich, chief of headquarters of Lugansk People's Republic's Army, deputy defense minister of the Lugansk People's Republic, and "Oreon" - a citizen of Russian Federation, officer of Main Intelligence Department of the Main Headquarters of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

Oreon says: "We have a Buk now, f*ck it! We will shoot them down."

July 17, 1 a.m. SBU's counter-intelligence department receives information that Russian Federation passed a Buk, complete with a team, to the terrorist groups in Ukraine. It was transferred over the border close to the town of Sukhodolsk at 1 a.m.

July 17, 9:00 a.m. Buk was moved to Donetsk, and later to Pervomaisk. The information comes from another tapped conversation released by the SBU where two terrorists, identified as "Khmuryi" (Sergei Nikolayevich Petrovskiy, officer of Main Intelligence Department of the Main Headquarters of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation) and "Buryat" (an unidentified fighter of Donetsk People's Republic) discuss what to do with the missile launch system. Buryat says he brought one system, and it needs to be hidden. But Khmurui says it will traveling along with tanks of Vostok battalion, and directs the Buk to Pervomaisk.

July 18, 4:50 a.m. -- Interior Ministry's intelligence unit recorded a crawler tractor carrying a missile system moving towards the border of the Russian Federation. The video clearly shows missiles, but the middle one of three is missing.

"We're analyzing this and other collected information. We think this is the very Buk system which shot at the civilian plane flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur," Avakov said. He said that the terrorists were "trying to hide evidence of the terrible crime."

Link youtube
 
2014-07-18 12:57:35 PM  
The fastest investigation and wrap up in air-disaster history. And hot on the heels of the BRICS deal, no less! AND in conjuction with boots on the ground in Gaza. AAAAND the curious coincidence of it being another malasian flight.
Within an hour, the Ukrainian government broadcast its conclusion that eastern rebels shot down the plane. Also within hours, the US government made public its conclusion that the plane had been hit by a missile - will someone get a promotion for that speedy analysis? It sure beats examining the wreckage.
Also, within hours of the tragedy, Ukraine intercepts, isolates, analyses, translates and publishes an incriminating phone call. The NSA must be envious. They even had the names and photographs of the interlocutors. There was no need to keep this interception private as special evidence that needed to be checked. No, in this investigation the right thing to do was send it out on twitter at the earliest convenience.
Within hours, leaders from all over the world have made their conclusions as well - for they too don't need to wait for an examination of the wreckage, nor for the gathering of witness testimony, nor for the consideration of such minutiae as motive, means and opportunity.
 
2014-07-18 12:57:58 PM  

hardinparamedic: ongbok: It is truly a shame that so many people who were working towards making the world a better place died so senselessly because Putin had to show the world how powerful he is, but lets not got an exaggerate and say that this is going to set AIDS research back 10 years. Lets be realistic here.

Some of the representatives of the research agencies and colleges these men represented are going so far as to say the future cure of HIV was on that flight.

The data might be there, but the men of vision who were driving the breakthroughs based on that data are now dead and gone.


see, what you don't understand is that scientific research just happens based on funding.   The funding is still there, so the same research will happen.  That the researchers, organizers, etc died - meaningless.  That their closest friends and coworkers will be shocked and depressed for a while - meaningless.

//sad sarcasm...
//my wife is actually a molecular virology research scientist...she's turned down offers for 4x the pay doing non-research, and she's typical in that way for people in that field.  The greatest of minds and spirits are giving up a lot of comfort and wealth to do that research
 
2014-07-18 01:02:17 PM  

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: CruJones: Isn't that the opposite of what they said yesterday?  They were talking about how they had a missile system taken

Not that I am aware of.

Got a reference to the Ukrainian authorities saying that?


It was in an article a few posts down, and was part of the rationale the Ukranian spokesdude was giving for saying it was the separatists, but this was yesterday. Interfax says that they captured them at Donetsk.
 
2014-07-18 01:02:37 PM  

costermonger: Geoff Peterson: well like the alleged phone call says...WTF were they doing flying over that area in the first place? Seems like colossally bad judgement to me.

There was a no-fly zone and they were outside of it. Along with lots of other traffic.

You can certainly make a case for avoiding the area, but in general an airliner at 33,000 feet is perfectly safe from just about everything, unless the national government of a fairly advanced country decides to shoot it down - as you need some serious kit to reach a target like that.

In this case it seems like the Russians turned over a big-boy-weapon to the control of a bunch of farking idiots. I'm not going to blame Malaysian airlines for that.


I read in one of the articles that other airlines had already taken to flying a longer route prior to the incident, but Malaysian Airlines and a few others had stuck with the existing route to minimize costs.
 
2014-07-18 01:03:54 PM  

ongbok: kagemaru026: well then where did they get it? the SAM fairy?

Yep, from the SAM fairy. The SAM fairy named Putin.


Well, he does like to ride around without a shirt with other dudes, so seems appropriate.
 
2014-07-18 01:05:01 PM  
Proximuscentauri: The fastest investigation and wrap up in air-disaster history. And hot on the heels of the BRICS deal, no less! AND in conjuction with boots on the ground in Gaza. AAAAND the curious coincidence of it being another malasian flight.
Within an hour, the Ukrainian government broadcast its conclusion that eastern rebels shot down the plane. Also within hours, the US government made public its conclusion that the plane had been hit by a missile - will someone get a promotion for that speedy analysis? It sure beats examining the wreckage.
Also, within hours of the tragedy, Ukraine intercepts, isolates, analyses, translates and publishes an incriminating phone call. The NSA must be envious. They even had the names and photographs of the interlocutors. There was no need to keep this interception private as special evidence that needed to be checked. No, in this investigation the right thing to do was send it out on twitter at the earliest convenience.
Within hours, leaders from all over the world have made their conclusions as well - for they too don't need to wait for an examination of the wreckage, nor for the gathering of witness testimony, nor for the consideration of such minutiae as motive, means and opportunity.
IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!!!

FTFY
 
2014-07-18 01:13:01 PM  

IamAwake: hardinparamedic: ongbok: It is truly a shame that so many people who were working towards making the world a better place died so senselessly because Putin had to show the world how powerful he is, but lets not got an exaggerate and say that this is going to set AIDS research back 10 years. Lets be realistic here.

Some of the representatives of the research agencies and colleges these men represented are going so far as to say the future cure of HIV was on that flight.

The data might be there, but the men of vision who were driving the breakthroughs based on that data are now dead and gone.

see, what you don't understand is that scientific research just happens based on funding.   The funding is still there, so the same research will happen.  That the researchers, organizers, etc died - meaningless.  That their closest friends and coworkers will be shocked and depressed for a while - meaningless.

//sad sarcasm...
//my wife is actually a molecular virology research scientist...she's turned down offers for 4x the pay doing non-research, and she's typical in that way for people in that field.  The greatest of minds and spirits are giving up a lot of comfort and wealth to do that research


I know what I'm writing my next R01 grant application on.

/it is sad though
//the pay
 
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