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(USA Today)   The best video of one of the last surviving Navajo code talkers singing the Marine Corps anthem in his native language you'll see all day -Semper Fi, badass guy   (usatoday.com) divider line 31
    More: Cool, Navajo Code Talker  
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2206 clicks; posted to Video » on 17 Jul 2014 at 5:01 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-07-17 02:53:11 PM  
We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?
 
2014-07-17 03:04:34 PM  
What a shiat website. Crashed two browsers. I'm not opening up in a third.
 
2014-07-17 03:34:41 PM  

DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?


Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

If so, then hero tag.  If not, then no hero tag, though his service was valuable, though not indispensible, to the nation.

Oh, and to correct the record:  The code the Navajos used wasn't unbreakable.  It's that the Japanese were absolutely shiat at both signals intelligence and cryptanalysis.  There is a reason why we didn't depend on them in Europe:  The Germans were actually competent, and likely could have broken it given the chance.
 
2014-07-17 03:43:00 PM  

dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?


Since your contribution to national defence appears be a funny haircut and posting in some gun threads. you may want to think about dialling that back a little.
 
2014-07-17 03:47:59 PM  

Tigger: dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

Since your contribution to national defence appears be a funny haircut and posting in some gun threads. you may want to think about dialling that back a little.


Actually, google what a "ditty bopper" was.  My contribution to national defense was to listen to the military radio communications of foreign nations so that we didn't get hit with another "Pearl Harbor"-style attack.

What was *YOUR* contribution?
 
2014-07-17 03:52:51 PM  
BTW, just so it's clear:  I'm no hero either.
 
2014-07-17 05:56:08 PM  

dittybopper: Oh, and to correct the record: The code the Navajos used wasn't unbreakable. It's that the Japanese were absolutely shiat at both signals intelligence and cryptanalysis. There is a reason why we didn't depend on them in Europe: The Germans were actually competent, and likely could have broken it given the chance.



i479.photobucket.com

The US used Comanche code talkers in the European theater.

http://www.comanchemuseum.com/code_talkers
 
2014-07-17 06:01:42 PM  

dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

If so, then hero tag.  If not, then no hero tag, though his service was valuable, though not indispensible, to the nation.

Oh, and to correct the record:  The code the Navajos used wasn't unbreakable.  It's that the Japanese were absolutely shiat at both signals intelligence and cryptanalysis.  There is a reason why we didn't depend on them in Europe:  The Germans were actually competent, and likely could have broken it given the chance.


Jesus. Jealous much? What exactly did YOU do that was better than this man's work?

F*cking people like you are the worst. The absolute worst. Minimize others accomplishment so you feel better about yourself. EABOD.
 
2014-07-17 06:23:18 PM  
not a lot of people know this, but the navajo language is actually binary
 
2014-07-17 06:32:45 PM  

dittybopper: Tigger: dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

Since your contribution to national defence appears be a funny haircut and posting in some gun threads. you may want to think about dialling that back a little.

Actually, google what a "ditty bopper" was.  My contribution to national defense was to listen to the military radio communications of foreign nations so that we didn't get hit with another "Pearl Harbor"-style attack.

What was *YOUR* contribution?


Unless that shiat you were listening in on was top secret clearance you can go ahead and STFU.
 
2014-07-17 06:33:31 PM  

tzzhc4: dittybopper: Oh, and to correct the record: The code the Navajos used wasn't unbreakable. It's that the Japanese were absolutely shiat at both signals intelligence and cryptanalysis. There is a reason why we didn't depend on them in Europe: The Germans were actually competent, and likely could have broken it given the chance.


[i479.photobucket.com image 269x260]

The US used Comanche code talkers in the European theater.

http://www.comanchemuseum.com/code_talkers


A relative handful.  From your link:

Fourteen of the Comanche Code Talkers were sent overseas during WWII to fight in the European Theater.

Emphasis mine.  That's almost the same as not having them there at all, compared to the number of communications that happened back then:

Invasion plans called for a concentration of about 90,000 transmitters within a limited area of land, sea, and sky.

So at most, the Comanche Code Talkers handled about 0.015% of the communications on D-Day.  And probably fewer, especially after D-Day.

The majority of communications in Europe were done with the SIGABA/CCM for the top level communications, and for less secure, tactical messages of the sort the code talkers were used for, the M-209 cipher machine and the Slidex code system.  See:  http://www.history.army.mil/html/reference/Normandy/TS/SC/SC3.htm


Compare that with the Navajo in the Pacific:  There were approximately 400 Navajo Code Talkers (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-2.htm) available for a number of island invasions each much, much smaller than D-Day.
 
2014-07-17 06:41:52 PM  

Flappyhead: dittybopper: Tigger: dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

Since your contribution to national defence appears be a funny haircut and posting in some gun threads. you may want to think about dialling that back a little.

Actually, google what a "ditty bopper" was.  My contribution to national defense was to listen to the military radio communications of foreign nations so that we didn't get hit with another "Pearl Harbor"-style attack.

What was *YOUR* contribution?

Unless that shiat you were listening in on was top secret clearance you can go ahead and STFU.


It was. I had a Top Secret/SCI clearance, and I worked in a SCIF.  In fact, it was the same farkin' facility that Edward Snowden would later work in, United States Army Field Station Kunia*, albeit back when he was still in diapers.

So, you were saying?

*Known as that back then.  It changed to Regional SIGINT Operations Center (RSOC) Kunia in the 1990's, and it's now closed (or nearly so) to the best of my knowledge, the facility having moved out of the Kunia tunnel to a new site on the other side of Wahiawa, near Whitmore Village.
 
2014-07-17 06:49:47 PM  

mediablitz: Jesus. Jealous much? What exactly did YOU do that was better than this man's work?


Absolutely nothing.

F*cking people like you are the worst. The absolute worst. Minimize others accomplishment so you feel better about yourself. EABOD.

I'm not minimizing anything.  This is what I said:  his service was valuable, though not indispensible

That's true.  It's a fact.  You can't argue the position.

There has been a bit of a mythology built up that everyone who participated in WWII is a "hero".  I have a narrower view.  Not everyone was in battle:  Think about it for a second, for every code talker in a company, there had to be one at battalion level, for every one at battalion level, there had to be one at division level.  Actually, *MORE*.

They did a valuable service, but not one that was indispensable as there were other methods that were used successfully in Europe against more competent SIGINT organizations.
 
2014-07-17 06:52:55 PM  
dittybopper:

It was. I had a Top Secret/SCI clearance, and I worked in a SCIF.  In fact, it was the same farkin' facility that Edward Snowden would later work in, United States Army Field Station Kunia*, albeit back when he was still in diapers.

So, you were saying?


Well good for you.  Thank you for your service.  You're still a snide asshat.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-07-17 07:01:08 PM  
I would think that for any member of the First Nations to decide to side with the US and work with them during wartime is an exceptional act, and that placing trust in the US gov't and going overseas on their behalf is an heroic act of bravery and altruism.
 
2014-07-17 07:01:35 PM  
The guy is a hero because despite the inhuman treatment given his people by the powers that be, he still faught for this nation. He put his life on the line for people who thought him a savage. I like to think that he didn't fight for the country that it was but the country that it could be.
 
2014-07-17 07:05:42 PM  

433: I would think that for any member of the First Nations to decide to side with the US and work with them during wartime is an exceptional act, and that placing trust in the US gov't and going overseas on their behalf is an heroic act of bravery and altruism.


Plus, you can't make War Chief in the Crow Nation without fighting in battle.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/medicinecrow.html
 
2014-07-17 07:06:46 PM  
OOPS.

NSFW for language on the link above.

NSFW for language on the link above.
 
2014-07-17 07:19:04 PM  

Pentaxian: The guy is a hero because despite the inhuman treatment given his people by the powers that be, he still faught for this nation. He put his life on the line for people who thought him a savage. I like to think that he didn't fight for the country that it was but the country that it could be.


In fact, the federal government tried to actively wipe out his language and culture and some code talkers were raised in government sponsored boarding schools where they were punished for speaking the language that they would later use to save so many lives. And they were not the only people we Americans brutally suppressed, who nonetheless fought like hell for America,  Consider the fact that "go for broke" the Oahu-based unit  was one of the most decorated unit despite being made up largely of volunteers from internment camps,  or  the exploits of the "triple nickle"  the all black unit of fighter pilots, or Patton's all black tank unit, and you realize what a terrible debt we owe to people whpo had no reason to fight for us but did anyway
 
2014-07-17 07:32:33 PM  
Jiro Dreams Of McRibs:
Plus, you can't make War Chief in the Crow Nation without fighting in battle.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/medicinecrow.html


*reads article*
**watches video at the bottom**

wow...
 
2014-07-17 08:09:44 PM  

Magorn: Pentaxian: The guy is a hero because despite the inhuman treatment given his people by the powers that be, he still faught for this nation. He put his life on the line for people who thought him a savage. I like to think that he didn't fight for the country that it was but the country that it could be.

In fact, the federal government tried to actively wipe out his language and culture and some code talkers were raised in government sponsored boarding schools where they were punished for speaking the language that they would later use to save so many lives. And they were not the only people we Americans brutally suppressed, who nonetheless fought like hell for America,  Consider the fact that "go for broke" the Oahu-based unit  was one of the most decorated unit despite being made up largely of volunteers from internment camps,  or  the exploits of the "triple nickle"  the all black unit of fighter pilots, or Patton's all black tank unit, and you realize what a terrible debt we owe to people whpo had no reason to fight for us but did anyway


well yeah but some internet shiatlord said all this guy did was basically talk on the phone so i don't know what i should believe
 
2014-07-17 09:14:31 PM  

dittybopper: Tigger: dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

Since your contribution to national defence appears be a funny haircut and posting in some gun threads. you may want to think about dialling that back a little.

Actually, google what a "ditty bopper" was.  My contribution to national defense was to listen to the military radio communications of foreign nations so that we didn't get hit with another "Pearl Harbor"-style attack.

What was *YOUR* contribution?


I sit and watch Google Earth for incoming missile strikes.
 
2014-07-17 09:23:30 PM  

dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

If so, then hero tag.  If not, then no hero tag, though his service was valuable, though not indispensible, to the nation.

Oh, and to correct the record:  The code the Navajos used wasn't unbreakable.  It's that the Japanese were absolutely shiat at both signals intelligence and cryptanalysis.  There is a reason why we didn't depend on them in Europe:  The Germans were actually competent, and likely could have broken it given the chance.


and we got a troll people. who has the flame thrower?
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-07-17 09:45:53 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Plus, you can't make War Chief in the Crow Nation without fighting in battle.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/medicinecrow.html


Farkin' WOW!, that man, wow, it's amazing men like that exist.

Thank you for the link, I have bookmarked it.

mr smart the great: and we got a troll people. who has the flame thrower?


the matter is settled, the thread has recognized the talent, skill, and altruism offered to the US, and the person who called into question has also been thanked for his service, and at least in the posts of other farkers,  the perceived error he made has been corrected.

Don't stir flames, mr smart the great, it is not necessary.
 
2014-07-17 09:56:07 PM  
/O
 
2014-07-17 11:12:18 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: 433: I would think that for any member of the First Nations to decide to side with the US and work with them during wartime is an exceptional act, and that placing trust in the US gov't and going overseas on their behalf is an heroic act of bravery and altruism.

Plus, you can't make War Chief in the Crow Nation without fighting in battle.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/medicinecrow.html


Holy crap, death is just too scared to come pay him a visit.  Even at 100 it's even money who would walk away from that battle....
 
2014-07-17 11:39:06 PM  

mr smart the great: dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

If so, then hero tag.  If not, then no hero tag, though his service was valuable, though not indispensible, to the nation.

Oh, and to correct the record:  The code the Navajos used wasn't unbreakable.  It's that the Japanese were absolutely shiat at both signals intelligence and cryptanalysis.  There is a reason why we didn't depend on them in Europe:  The Germans were actually competent, and likely could have broken it given the chance.

and we got a troll people. who has the flame thrower?


That's not a troll.

The Japanese *WERE* horrible at both SIGINT in general, and cryptanalysis in particular.

Some specific examples:

1. For some of the kind of low-level, tactical style messages the Navajo code talkers were used for, the US also used a strip cipher system.  It's quick, but not really secure for the volume of messages it was used for back then.  That particular system has the same weakness as the Enigma, in that no letter can encipher itself, so an E in the plaintext can't be an E in the ciphertext.  If you have captured the strips, which the Japanese had on numerous occasions, there is a known cryptanalytical attack which was published by de Viaris in 1893, nearly 50 years earlier, but the Japanese didn't seem to be aware of this method, and unlike the Germans, never consistently cracked the strip ciphers or even consistently cracked the M-94 wheel cipher (which is essentially the same as a strip cipher).

2. The Japanese don't even seem to have been able to consistently break the Playfair cipher used by the Australian coastwatchers.  The coastwatchers were isolated troops in remote locations, usually on islands in Japanese held territory, who had a radio and who reported on Japanese movements.  In fact, the rescue of John F. Kennedy, whose PT boat had been rammed and sunk by a Japanese destroyer, went off without any interference from the Japanese, despite the fact that a reasonably skilled cryptanalyst could have broken the messages in Playfair, especially the longer ones.

3. The Japanese didn't seem to know when they were being played, see the whole "AF is short of water" deal.

In fact, I can't seem to think of any real SIGINT successes the Japanese had.  I can rattle off several that the Germans did:  Breaking the M-138A strip cipher, breaking the M-209 cipher, breaking the Royal Navy's Naval Cipher No. 3, breaking the US State Department's Black code, breaking the Allied SYKO code, the Allied BAMS code for merchant shipping, etc.  The list goes on and on.

But if you ask me what codes and ciphers the Japanese broke, well, they sometimes managed to stumble into success with the very lowest security US ciphers despite themselves, like the pre-war M-94, but mostly not.   All of their SIGINT was traffic analysis and DF, for the most part, which while valuable, is pretty thin gruel compared to even the successes achieved by the Italians (who really snookered the Yugoslavian Army with a classic funkspiel).

Had we tried to use Navajo (or other Native American) code talkers on any scale in Europe like we did in the Pacific, it's almost certain that the Germans would have been able to break it eventually.  They certainly had the requisite skills, unlike the Japanese.

But there is such a mythology built up around the Navajo code being unbreakable.  When you point out the real reason it was never broken, that the Japanese didn't have a farkin' *CLUE* when it comes to signals intelligence or cryptanalysis, then people think you're a troll.

I'm not.  I just happen to be a student of this kind of thing, having had an interest in it since I was a tween, and having done it professionally.
 
2014-07-17 11:41:41 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: dittybopper: Tigger: dittybopper: DanZero: We use the Hero tag on frivolous, borderline people that might not even deserve it everyday, and yet THIS link doesn't get one?

Did he do anything more exceptional than talk on the radio?

Since your contribution to national defence appears be a funny haircut and posting in some gun threads. you may want to think about dialling that back a little.

Actually, google what a "ditty bopper" was.  My contribution to national defense was to listen to the military radio communications of foreign nations so that we didn't get hit with another "Pearl Harbor"-style attack.

What was *YOUR* contribution?

I sit and watch Google Earth for incoming missile strikes.


Back in the day, we'd have given out collective left nut for a tool like Google Earth.
 
2014-07-17 11:43:03 PM  

Pentaxian: The guy is a hero because despite the inhuman treatment given his people by the powers that be, he still faught for this nation. He put his life on the line for people who thought him a savage. I like to think that he didn't fight for the country that it was but the country that it could be.


OK, in that sense, yes, I concede.
 
2014-07-17 11:44:42 PM  

Flappyhead: dittybopper:

It was. I had a Top Secret/SCI clearance, and I worked in a SCIF.  In fact, it was the same farkin' facility that Edward Snowden would later work in, United States Army Field Station Kunia*, albeit back when he was still in diapers.

So, you were saying?

Well good for you.  Thank you for your service.  You're still a snide asshat.


Dude, don't use my real name on Fark!
 
2014-07-18 07:53:49 PM  

433: I would think that for any member of the First Nations to decide to side with the US and work with them during wartime is an exceptional act, and that placing trust in the US gov't and going overseas on their behalf is an heroic act of bravery and altruism.


Hmm.

/Canuck-like typing detected
 
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