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(The New York Times)   18,000 Microsoft employees facing the Pink Slip of Death. Microsoft still expected to apply for thousands of H1-B visas next year and swear they can't find any skilled workers in the US   (nytimes.com) divider line 96
    More: Followup, Microsoft, Nokia phones, Finnish, layoffs  
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1625 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Jul 2014 at 12:09 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-17 11:29:31 AM
"We will increase the fluidity of information and ideas by taking actions to flatten the organization and develop leaner business processes," he wrote in the memo. "Culture change means we will do things differently." "

He's going to have to articulate why the heck anyone should care now that most people do everything in a browser.  His entire strategy seems to be lay people off and then make unspecified changes.
 
2014-07-17 12:12:41 PM
F*CK Microsoft.
 
2014-07-17 12:14:49 PM
Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?
 
2014-07-17 12:17:47 PM

mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?


their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.
 
2014-07-17 12:18:39 PM
Aren't most of the layoffs in Finland?

/DNRTFA
 
2014-07-17 12:20:02 PM
Hey, here's an idea! Maybe recognize that the Enterprise is still a viable market, and do something for us other than beating us over the head with Azure.
 
2014-07-17 12:21:02 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-17 12:21:40 PM

ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.



enjoy while it lasts...............
 
2014-07-17 12:22:40 PM
Monopoly$oft:  Fighting to protect Freedom(tm) in 'murica.
 
2014-07-17 12:23:31 PM

ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.


Ah, yes, Win 8 is such a great platform!</sarcasm>
 
2014-07-17 12:23:35 PM
RTFA subby.

"Microsoft will make the deepest cuts from the businesses it acquired from the Finnish phone maker Nokia. About 12,500 of the jobs being eliminated will come from the Nokia groups, resulting from the closing of a factory in Hungary and other changes."

I don't work for Microsoft, but I work for a company with similar labor challenges.  We hire interns.  We bring in people on H1B.  We poach people away from Microsoft and Microsoft poaches people away from us.

I'll stand up and holler with ya once we start producing enough of the required skills/talent domestically.
 
2014-07-17 12:31:12 PM

wagnerism: I'll stand up and holler with ya once we start producing workers with enough of the required skills/talent domestically who are willing to lower wages that don't reflect the cost of acquiring those skills domestically.


Fixed that for accuracy.
 
2014-07-17 12:31:47 PM

jayhawk88: Hey, here's an idea! Maybe recognize that the Enterprise is still a viable market, and do something for us other than beating us over the head with Azure.


Yeah I went the windows 8 enterprise demo they put on in Denver and it was pretty much a sales pitch for azure. I find it amusing they call their area reps 'evangelists'.
 
2014-07-17 12:31:48 PM
This means 2014 will be the Year of Linux on the desktop!!!
 
2014-07-17 12:32:27 PM

Linux_Yes: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.


enjoy while it lasts...............


cdn1.tnwcdn.com

Yeah, it's getting rel close now. .
 
2014-07-17 12:40:06 PM

wagnerism: "Microsoft will make the deepest cuts from the businesses it acquired from the Finnish phone maker Nokia. About 12,500 of the jobs being eliminated will come from the Nokia groups, resulting from the closing of a factory in Hungary and other changes."


This, pretty much.

MSFT doesn't want to be in the business of actually assembling phones (they'd likely prefer to contract with Foxconn and their ilk like everyone else), so they are shuttering the factories they acquired in the Nokia deal, plus getting rid of some of the obvious duplication in overhead functions (accounting/payroll/HR/marketing/IT/etc.) that come with a 100K employee company acquiring a 30K employee company.

This is pretty unlikely to affect anyone who isn't on the phone side of the business.  It's not like they're laying off half the Windows team or something.
 
2014-07-17 12:40:17 PM

mistrmind: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.

Ah, yes, Win 8 is such a great platform!</sarcasm>


You're not really addressing his point.  I have no love for Win 8 (though I like 7 quite a bit thankyouverymuch), but the reality is that Windows is running on the vast majority of the world's computers.  There's a lot of things you can question about Microsoft, but whether they're "relevant" isn't one of those things.
 
2014-07-17 12:40:58 PM
Let's take a look at the team that designed Windows 8 before drawing any conclusions.  If that was all domestic talent, they may have a point.
 
2014-07-17 12:42:25 PM
this must've been Ballmer's literal plan for microsoft:

1) buy nokia
2) invest heavily in making your own devices
3) ???
4) profit!

i think the ??? void was filled with junk like metro and other things nobody wanted

i hope the surface pro line isn't hurt by this tho, good devices
 
2014-07-17 12:43:26 PM

farbekrieg: jayhawk88: Hey, here's an idea! Maybe recognize that the Enterprise is still a viable market, and do something for us other than beating us over the head with Azure.

Yeah I went the windows 8 enterprise demo they put on in Denver and it was pretty much a sales pitch for azure. I find it amusing they call their area reps 'evangelists'.


The "evangelist" title has been around for a while. It was actually popularized by Mike Murray at Apple back in the 80s.
 
2014-07-17 12:45:27 PM

OptionC: This, pretty much.

MSFT doesn't want to be in the business of actually assembling phones (they'd likely prefer to contract with Foxconn and their ilk like everyone else), so they are shuttering the factories they acquired in the Nokia deal, plus getting rid of some of the obvious duplication in overhead functions (accounting/payroll/HR/marketing/IT/etc.) that come with a 100K employee company acquiring a 30K employee company.

This is pretty unlikely to affect anyone who isn't on the phone side of the business. It's not like they're laying off half the Windows team or something.

Spring 2014: Microsoft acquires Nokia, adds 25,000 people to the workforce. Tech blogs and commentators largely yawn.

Summer 2014: Microsoft lays off 18,000, a lion's share from the Nokia acquisition. Tech blogs and commentators freak out: "Arrrgggghhh, the end for M$ is nigh! The "Year of Linux" is here!!!!"
 
2014-07-17 12:45:59 PM

SpectroBoy: Linux_Yes: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.


enjoy while it lasts...............

[cdn1.tnwcdn.com image 815x550]

Yeah, it's getting rel close now. .


That graph might be true for desktops, but once mobile devices, servers, and home media devices are taken into consideration, Linux is clearly ahead, followed by Mac.  IMO, Windows only has the desktop market these days because of legacy business applications needing either IE or Windows and for playing games.  Outside of that, Mac & Linux can do everything Windows can, and better in some cases.

I'd rather do video encoding/dvd transcoding on Linux over Windows any day, and I use the exact same programs on both (ffmpeg, mencoder, handbrake, and/or x264).  On the same machine, I can usually get a few more fps during the encode since so many resources aren't as necessary running from terminal only, XFCE, or Openbox as they are when running Windows 8.

/posted from a Windows 8 desktop (dual boots Debian Sid)
//waiting on KSP 0.24
///Yes, I can play KSP with Linux, but the Windows version is a bit more stable for me
 
2014-07-17 12:46:36 PM
I would love to see the government climb up microsofts asshole and examine each h1b visa and deny them if a laid off employee meets the qualifications while forcing them to double that employees salary. If the employee declines then fine the H1b can be granted but the foreign worker should get 3x the compensation as a giant fark you to microsoft.

/just sayin
 
2014-07-17 12:49:08 PM

SpectroBoy: Linux_Yes: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.


enjoy while it lasts...............



Yeah, it's getting rel close now. .


Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.
 
2014-07-17 12:49:37 PM
There is a whole pile of kids down at the southern border who need jobs. I am sure they can code as well as the idiot who thought Windows 8 was a good idea.
 
2014-07-17 12:50:57 PM

JK47: wagnerism: I'll stand up and holler with ya once we start producing workers with enough of the required skills/talent domestically who are willing to lower wages that don't reflect the cost of acquiring those skills domestically.

Fixed that for accuracy.


I have technical-interviewed dozens of domestic candidates over the past year.  I'm paid very well.  We'll pay for the skills and talent.  Despite speaking from personal experience, I still find it hard to believe the outright stupidity.

Resume Title:  "Senior Network Engineer"

Q1:  "I see you have RSVP on your resume.  That's an interesting protocol.  In which contexts did you use it and what benefits did it provide?"
A:  "uhhh... RSVP shouldn't be on my resume.  I don't know what RSVP is"

Q2:  "Okay then...  I see you have L3VPN listed.  Please tell me about your L3VPN experience and implementations."
A:  "uhh...  That should be L3 (comma) VPN (comma)

Q3:  (continuing out of sheer curiosity)  "Please tell me about your VPN implementations"
A:  "uhhh....  I installed clients and tested them."

This is admittedly one of the worst, but the others aren't much better.
 
2014-07-17 12:51:26 PM

madgonad: Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.

What's funny is that much of the infrastructure that's used to power the apps, marketplace and "cloud" services on those smart phones and tablets (at least in the case of Apple), is running on Microsoft's Azure platform.

Make sure you adjust the math for that too.
 
2014-07-17 12:56:18 PM

MrSteve007: madgonad: Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.
What's funny is that much of the infrastructure that's used to power the apps, marketplace and "cloud" services on those smart phones and tablets (at least in the case of Apple), is running on Microsoft's Azure platform.

Make sure you adjust the math for that too.


I thought we were talking about apples and you start in with the oranges.

Should we also consider the routers running Cisco's software that everything flows through.

My point is that to the consumer the need to run Windows-anything is fading fast.
 
2014-07-17 12:57:28 PM

MrSteve007: madgonad: Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.
What's funny is that much of the infrastructure that's used to power the apps, marketplace and "cloud" services on those smart phones and tablets (at least in the case of Apple), is running on Microsoft's Azure platform.

Make sure you adjust the math for that too.


I'm not sure about that.  Some Azure, some AWS.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/02/icloud_runs_on_microsoft_azu re _and_amazon/
 
2014-07-17 01:01:02 PM

mistrmind: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.

Ah, yes, Win 8 is such a great platform!</sarcasm>


I'm not saying I like it.  in fact, it's worse than AIDS and Hitler combined.  I'm just pointing out that it exists.
 
kab
2014-07-17 01:03:22 PM
"We will increase the fluidity of information and ideas by taking actions to flatten the organization and develop leaner business processes, fark you, I've got mine" he wrote in the memo.
 
2014-07-17 01:03:47 PM
This Nokia and Windows phone strategy is just a disaster. It's not going to work.

There's often a point where the use of technology changes and a company drops the ball. IBM dropped the ball with PCs by not building their own PC and Microsoft ruled with the PC platform. Didn't matter that BeOS or NeXT came along later, MS already owned the platform. With the smartphone, Nokia dropped the ball, not taking things like UI and sync seriously. MS thought they could sell people on a phone that looked like Windows and then they didn't take the iPhone seriously, but Google did, and the result is that iOS and Android rule the platforms.

And funda-farking-mently, what's the USP of the Windows Phone? Why would someone with an Android phone who has paid for a bunch of apps, has a monumentally huge choice of apps, who already has Gmail and Google Calendar with all their stuff in, who has plenty of choice of Android phones available switch? I've seen them in action, I've played with them, I think they're nice phones, but they aren't nice enough for me to go through a platform switch. There's no "OMG must have" about them.

And I know people say things like "the 100 biggest apps are all on there", but I've got Android apps that I use that aren't. Hell, there are some apps I'd like (like the World Atlas of Wine) that are only iOS at the moment. Now, if they build that app for another platform, which are they going to build it for first? Android or Windows Phone.
 
2014-07-17 01:04:10 PM
Used to be an orange badge at Redmond West. The hallways and every little side-room that used to be a place for people to sit was packed with folding tables, tiny dell workstations, and visa workers coding away all day long. Curtains set up in some places so the blue badges could walk past without seeing them, and all they did was have "planning sessions" in the lobby with either a margarita cart (if after noon) or a barista cart (if before noon).
 
2014-07-17 01:10:08 PM

SpectroBoy: Linux_Yes: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.


enjoy while it lasts...............

[cdn1.tnwcdn.com image 815x550]

Yeah, it's getting rel close now. .



before you shoot your load, you didn't mention Android?  1.5 million new activations every day in the world. you didn't mention the Linux that runs my Asus router?  you didn't mention the Linux that runs my Roku TV media streaming device.

you didn't mention alot of things. all you mentioned was desktop since Monopoly$oft has a lock on OEM's of PCs.   you're propaganda techniques need work.

and you most certainly did not mention Linux adopters.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters
 
2014-07-17 01:11:14 PM

farbekrieg: jayhawk88: Hey, here's an idea! Maybe recognize that the Enterprise is still a viable market, and do something for us other than beating us over the head with Azure.

Yeah I went the windows 8 enterprise demo they put on in Denver and it was pretty much a sales pitch for azure. I find it amusing they call their area reps 'evangelists'.



because they are bible thumping crony capitalist gimps who say what their Owners want them to say.
 
2014-07-17 01:14:55 PM
Sadly, Subby's headline is likely true.

/own stock in MSFT and up .85
 
2014-07-17 01:15:50 PM

weavermatic: Used to be an orange badge at Redmond West. The hallways and every little side-room that used to be a place for people to sit was packed with folding tables, tiny dell workstations, and visa workers coding away all day long. Curtains set up in some places so the blue badges could walk past without seeing them, and all they did was have "planning sessions" in the lobby with either a margarita cart (if after noon) or a barista cart (if before noon).



reads like a real winner of a place to be.
 
2014-07-17 01:16:44 PM

DivorceWar Veteran: Sadly, Subby's headline is likely true.

/own stock in MSFT and up .85



sadly, owners of MSFT stock will one day have to face the music.  the writing's on the wall....it's just a matter of time.
 
2014-07-17 01:20:20 PM

wagnerism: MrSteve007: madgonad: Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.
What's funny is that much of the infrastructure that's used to power the apps, marketplace and "cloud" services on those smart phones and tablets (at least in the case of Apple), is running on Microsoft's Azure platform.

Make sure you adjust the math for that too.

I'm not sure about that.  Some Azure, some AWS.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/02/icloud_runs_on_microsoft_azu re _and_amazon/



BS all the way, Homies.

most of the cloud runs on Linux servers.   common knowledge for anyone who bothers to research.  most of the Internet web pages are hosted on Linux too.

Jesus, some of you folks are way out of the loop.
 
2014-07-17 01:21:07 PM

madgonad: MrSteve007: madgonad: Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.
What's funny is that much of the infrastructure that's used to power the apps, marketplace and "cloud" services on those smart phones and tablets (at least in the case of Apple), is running on Microsoft's Azure platform.

Make sure you adjust the math for that too.

I thought we were talking about apples and you start in with the oranges.

Should we also consider the routers running Cisco's software that everything flows through.

My point is that to the consumer the need to run Windows-anything is fading fast.



but it won't fade fast enough.  last year wouldn't be fast enough.
 
2014-07-17 01:23:10 PM

farbekrieg: Yeah I went the windows 8 enterprise demo they put on in Denver and it was pretty much a sales pitch for azure. I find it amusing they call their area reps 'evangelists'.


and as a .net developer, almost no-one I work with cares about Azure. Most companies want their data on site, the rest have small sites that run fine on shared hosting that's cheaper and would be too much hassle to switch. I met a guy in charge of a lingerie retailer who told me that they're using it, though - they grab a ton of instances just before Valentine's Day and Christmas and they no longer have to maintain a load of servers for a few dozen days of high demand.

That said, I have built something using the Azure media encoder and it's really nice. Very handy way of occassionally converting media files to MP4 without having to screw around with maintaining your own software.
 
2014-07-17 01:23:48 PM

madgonad: SpectroBoy: Linux_Yes: ManateeGag: mistrmind: Microsoft?  They're still relevant today?

their OS is still on the majority of computers, so yes.


enjoy while it lasts...............

Yeah, it's getting rel close now. .

Adjust math to include smart phones and tablets, then get back to me.



and the Cloud, and super computing, and the Gov't/military, and embedded, and world stock exchanges, and versa vice.  etc.
 
2014-07-17 01:25:11 PM
I would like to see a change to the H1-B law such that you are barred from applying for one for two years if your firm has recently conducted significant layoffs of personnel, if the laid off don't have the skills you want going forward, make it cheaper to retrain them than lay them off
 
2014-07-17 01:25:12 PM

czei: "We will increase the fluidity of information and ideas by taking actions to flatten the organization and develop leaner business processes," he wrote in the memo. "Culture change means we will do things differently." "

He's going to have to articulate why the heck anyone should care now that most people do everything in a browser.  His entire strategy seems to be lay people off and then make unspecified changes.



well, laying people off makes money for the Gods of stockholders, for awhile anyway..........
 
2014-07-17 01:29:00 PM
RSVP cloud computing is truly the best.
 
2014-07-17 01:29:01 PM

wagnerism: RTFA subby.

"Microsoft will make the deepest cuts from the businesses it acquired from the Finnish phone maker Nokia. About 12,500 of the jobs being eliminated will come from the Nokia groups, resulting from the closing of a factory in Hungary and other changes."

I don't work for Microsoft, but I work for a company with similar labor challenges.  We hire interns.  We bring in people on H1B.  We poach people away from Microsoft and Microsoft poaches people away from us.

I'll stand up and holler with ya once we start producing enough of the required skills/talent domestically.



that's what's great about H1B's. they'll work for half the cost and don't need piss breaks or health insurance.  a great labor pool to choose from.
 
2014-07-17 01:32:45 PM

monoski: There is a whole pile of kids down at the southern border who need jobs. I am sure they can code as well as the idiot who thought Windows 8 was a good idea.


Most of Windows 8 was a fine idea. It was just the interface that was face-slappingly stupid.

It's like someone made a cake for the church bake sale then let their 13 year old decorate it, so he iced goatse on it. It's not that the cake isn't still good, it's just that nobody will ever know because they're not willing to even look at it now. For good reason.
 
2014-07-17 01:40:36 PM

dragonchild: Let's take a look at the team that designed Windows 8 before drawing any conclusions.  If that was all domestic talent, they may have a point.


Windows 8 did works exactley as designed. It pissed off most users so much that they will all spend another 100 bucks to upgrade to 9 as soon as it comes out.

They have always made a great os, followed by a crappy one, followed by a great one.
 
2014-07-17 01:40:48 PM

dragonchild: Let's take a look at the team that designed Windows 8 before drawing any conclusions.  If that was all domestic talent, they may have a point.


Could also apply to the Xbox One marketing team.
 
2014-07-17 01:48:18 PM
Is Stephen Elop part of the layoffs because he would have been number one on my list.  Otherwise, I imagine he sold out Nokia to get a more secure position in MS again.  I'm just glad he didn't get the CEO position or head of Xbox division.  I'm not sure how guys like him keep finagling themselves high paying/power jobs since they obviously suck at their jobs.
 
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