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(WTAE)   Police see cheerleader walking home with friends eating ice cream after 10 PM, so they protect and serve the hell out of her   (wtae.com) divider line 804
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25121 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2014 at 12:37 PM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-17 05:04:46 PM  

redmid17: Click Click D'oh: MycroftHolmes: Just so you know, I agree with you, I was quoting Redmid from upthread when I asked him the same question

Yeah I know.  Just wanted to get the response in before it got lost in the clutter again.

I don't know about you, but grabbing someone and tackling someone look a lot different to me. Maybe I watch too much football or something.

Click Click D'oh: redmid17: Just issue her a ticket later and have a nice talk with her parents about the curfew.

Issue who a ticket?  You let her walk away.

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse. If you have the friends, you can get a name, probably an address. Follow up at the parents house later, issue a ticket, and have a nice talk with them about curfew. That's even ignoring that she was ostensibly coming back to the group anyway once she retrieved the phone and purse.


I watch a lot of football.  Grabbing someone who is running IS tackling.

As to your second point, yeah, there is no chance that kids would just give a fake name or address, or that the kid would later deny being there period.
 
2014-07-17 05:05:33 PM  

Headso: Click Click D'oh: Either way, what happens when the daffy innocent panic girl cuts in front of your cruiser?  Explain that one to the news media

In a thread where people are apologizing for the police beating up a teenage girl he is worried the police won't get a fair shake if they accidentally run over someone, lol!


To be fair, he is a bootlicker.
 
2014-07-17 05:06:02 PM  

jst3p: redmid17: I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse. If you have the friends, you can get a name, probably an address.

You really think so?

I imagine it would work out like this:

"What was that young ladies name"
"Who?"
"The girl that walked away?"
"What girl are you talking about?"
"The girl in the white top and jean shorts, said she was going to get her bag and come back here remember?"
"Oh we don't know her, just met her tonight. I think her name is Jane or something."


Well considering that the police officers are empowered to take those kids to a curfew location center, they have a bit of leverage there.

"Okay, well since you don't know her, we'll have to take you to the detention facility for your parents to pick her up."

It shouldn't be difficult for an adult with any mental faculties to outsmart a teenager


.

Click Click D'oh: redmid17: She was walking. Drive down the street 100 ft. Get out, lock the door, and calmly walk up to her. Don't drive on the sidewalk over her.

I thought she was running a few moments ago?  This is getting so confusing.

Either way, what happens when the daffy innocent panic girl cuts in front of your cruiser?  Explain that one to the news media.


She was walking and started running when they sprinted out of their cruiser. That would seem to imply that she ran because she was scared of them (or had something to hide, which she didn't).

Letting one guy out to talk to the group and then driving a police car up the street isn't likely to elicit the same reaction, imo. Maybe I am incredibly naiive.  I don't know.
 
2014-07-17 05:06:22 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Headso: See how you have to say "running people"...


So, she wasn't running?

God this is confusing.


Schrodinger's cheerleader. She is running and not running simultaneously!
 
2014-07-17 05:06:31 PM  

jst3p: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: MycroftHolmes: Nezorf: You would think that professional police officers would be trained in subduing techniques that don't include kicking, punching, or pulling hair.  A class in dispute negotiation or non violent mediation would be helpful too.

"You there running away, can we discuss your options?  We really should, hey slow down, look at different ways we can resolve this peacably.  Hey, let me catch up, let me make sure I understand your perspective so that we can find a mutually agreeable outcome.'

Not sure that this really works when someone is running.

And honestly, any use of force they tried would be criticized the same.  Use a nightstick, a tazer, a bean bag gun, whatever, the complaint would be the same.


I was mainly referring to the escalation by the police.
They knew they were escalating the situation by getting out of the car and should have done it in a way to not escalate it further.
Jumping out and running was an escalating move.

Assuming they instructed her first to not leave and then to come back what should they have done differently at this point?

According to her they got out of the car quickly and started towards her at a fast pace.
That was a mistake. They escalated the situation by acting in an aggressive manner.
They weren't trying to detain the kids and one kept walking.
Calmly get out and talk to her.
Maybe in a polite manner "miss, miss! I need you to stay here. We can get your stuff later. Please stop walking or I will have to handcuff you for resisting arrest."

Someone was walking away from them and the jumped out an ran at her. Escalation.

Assuming you meant "were", I don't see it that way.

They had detained the group. She wanted to leave, they informed the group that they were being detained and she ignored them.


So they jump out and run her down?
She was walking away and they jumped out and started to run after her.
If they were thinking in a de-escalation sense they would have gotten out of the car normally and walked towards her rather than run.
"I need you to stay here or I will have to arrest you" doesn't seem that far fetched

"I was scared because of how he got out of the car. He didn't just walk out, he jumped out of the car and started chasing me, so my first instinct was to run," she said.
The police escalated this situation by performing an unnecessary action.
 
2014-07-17 05:07:13 PM  

redmid17: jst3p: redmid17: I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse. If you have the friends, you can get a name, probably an address.

You really think so?

I imagine it would work out like this:

"What was that young ladies name"
"Who?"
"The girl that walked away?"
"What girl are you talking about?"
"The girl in the white top and jean shorts, said she was going to get her bag and come back here remember?"
"Oh we don't know her, just met her tonight. I think her name is Jane or something."

Well considering that the police officers are empowered to take those kids to a curfew location center, they have a bit of leverage there.

"Okay, well since you don't know her, we'll have to take you to the detention facility for your parents to pick her up."

It shouldn't be difficult for an adult with any mental faculties to outsmart a teenager



Why bother when you have the chance to tackle one and get away with it?
 
2014-07-17 05:07:46 PM  
I'm just glad these evil cops with xray vision knew that the girl running away wasn't carrying a gun or a pound of meth which caused her to decide to run away.
 
2014-07-17 05:07:52 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Headso: See how you have to say "running people"...


So, she wasn't running?

God this is confusing.


 heh, the police beating up a girl and being wrong about it confuses you.
 
2014-07-17 05:08:08 PM  

MycroftHolmes: I watch a lot of football.  Grabbing someone who is running IS tackling.

As to your second point, yeah, there is no chance that kids would just give a fake name or address, or that the kid would later deny being there period.


And it's not liable to make someone fall to the ground and get injuries bad enough to keep her overnight in a hospital
 
2014-07-17 05:08:31 PM  

Headso: In a thread where people are apologizing for the police beating up a teenage girl he is worried the police won't get a fair shake if they accidentally run over someone, lol!


Uh no, I'm saying that's why police don't use their patrol units to go after people on foot.  Because people on foot make unpredictable changes in direction and speed that a motor vehicle can't replicate... and their squishy.
 
2014-07-17 05:09:29 PM  

Nezorf: So they jump out and run her down?
She was walking away and they jumped out and started to run after her.
If they were thinking in a de-escalation sense they would have gotten out of the car normally and walked towards her rather than run.
"I need you to stay here or I will have to arrest you" doesn't seem that far fetched

"I was scared because of how he got out of the car. He didn't just walk out, he jumped out of the car and started chasing me, so my first instinct was to run," she said.
The police escalated this situation by performing an unnecessary action.


She escalated it when she refused to obey a lawful order. Sure they could have handled it differently but they met their objective.

You don't ignore cops when they tell you to stay put. And if you run you are going to get treated roughly. My father taught me these things when I was a kid.
 
2014-07-17 05:09:47 PM  

jst3p: redmid17: jst3p: redmid17: I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse. If you have the friends, you can get a name, probably an address.

You really think so?

I imagine it would work out like this:

"What was that young ladies name"
"Who?"
"The girl that walked away?"
"What girl are you talking about?"
"The girl in the white top and jean shorts, said she was going to get her bag and come back here remember?"
"Oh we don't know her, just met her tonight. I think her name is Jane or something."

Well considering that the police officers are empowered to take those kids to a curfew location center, they have a bit of leverage there.

"Okay, well since you don't know her, we'll have to take you to the detention facility for your parents to pick her up."

It shouldn't be difficult for an adult with any mental faculties to outsmart a teenager

Why bother when you have the chance to tackle one and get away with it?


Well that's the $64,000 question. A decent human being wouldn't do that. Then again, Pittsburgh PD seems to have a problem with hiring cops who don't get sued for excessive force.
 
2014-07-17 05:10:07 PM  

pedrop357: Headso: Click Click D'oh: Either way, what happens when the daffy innocent panic girl cuts in front of your cruiser?  Explain that one to the news media

In a thread where people are apologizing for the police beating up a teenage girl he is worried the police won't get a fair shake if they accidentally run over someone, lol!

To be fair, he is a bootlicker.


I believe he sucks off the teat of law enforcement so it's probably just a case of a guy knowing who butters his bread
 
2014-07-17 05:10:09 PM  

Headso: Click Click D'oh: Headso: See how you have to say "running people"...


So, she wasn't running?

God this is confusing.

 heh, the police beating up a girl and being wrong about it confuses you.


Assumes facts not in evidence.
 
2014-07-17 05:10:12 PM  

redmid17: Letting one guy out to talk to the group and then driving a police car up the street isn't likely to elicit the same reaction, imo. Maybe I am incredibly naiive. I don't know.


You think she ran because a cop came after her on foot... but she wouldn't run if a cop came after her in a car?

Really?
 
2014-07-17 05:10:49 PM  

redmid17: jst3p: redmid17: jst3p: redmid17: I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse. If you have the friends, you can get a name, probably an address.

You really think so?

I imagine it would work out like this:

"What was that young ladies name"
"Who?"
"The girl that walked away?"
"What girl are you talking about?"
"The girl in the white top and jean shorts, said she was going to get her bag and come back here remember?"
"Oh we don't know her, just met her tonight. I think her name is Jane or something."

Well considering that the police officers are empowered to take those kids to a curfew location center, they have a bit of leverage there.

"Okay, well since you don't know her, we'll have to take you to the detention facility for your parents to pick her up."

It shouldn't be difficult for an adult with any mental faculties to outsmart a teenager

Why bother when you have the chance to tackle one and get away with it?

Well that's the $64,000 question. A decent human being wouldn't do that. Then again, Pittsburgh PD seems to have a problem with hiring cops who don't get sued for excessive force.


I thought we were talking about cops?
 
2014-07-17 05:10:58 PM  

Headso: Click Click D'oh: Headso: See how you have to say "running people"...


So, she wasn't running?

God this is confusing.

 heh, the police beating up a girl and being wrong about it confuses you.


Beat up?  Did you see the picture?  Rodney King was BEAT UP by the cops...this girl was tackled & cuffed.
 
2014-07-17 05:12:27 PM  

jst3p: Headso: Click Click D'oh: Headso: See how you have to say "running people"...


So, she wasn't running?

God this is confusing.

 heh, the police beating up a girl and being wrong about it confuses you.

Assumes facts not in evidence.


Hey Elliot Rodger, it might not be "fair" that a man beating up a girl is frowned upon but it is, unless you are on fark,com and that man is a cop.
 
2014-07-17 05:13:29 PM  

redmid17: MycroftHolmes: I watch a lot of football.  Grabbing someone who is running IS tackling.

As to your second point, yeah, there is no chance that kids would just give a fake name or address, or that the kid would later deny being there period.

And it's not liable to make someone fall to the ground and get injuries bad enough to keep her overnight in a hospital


Really?  So if I am running away from you, and you run behind me and grab my shoulder, and I fall to the street, it isn't liable to cause injuries that could require hospitilization?  I am going to have to disagree with that.  Unless you are pretty well trained in how to fall safely, if someone upsets your balance while you are on a full, panicked run, and you fall in the street, it is very foreseeable that you are going to have injuries.


You have created all these other scenarios and hypotheticals, most of which aren't better than what the police actually did.  But you have never answered the fundamental question, which is this-Is chasing after a girl who is leaving a group that you have ordered to stay a reasonable thing to do, given the situation?  I know he could have chased her down in his car, or walked briskly in front of her, or called in for air support, or fired silly string at her...but is what he actually did unreasonable?  If so, why?
 
2014-07-17 05:14:58 PM  

jst3p: Nezorf: So they jump out and run her down?
She was walking away and they jumped out and started to run after her.
If they were thinking in a de-escalation sense they would have gotten out of the car normally and walked towards her rather than run.
"I need you to stay here or I will have to arrest you" doesn't seem that far fetched

"I was scared because of how he got out of the car. He didn't just walk out, he jumped out of the car and started chasing me, so my first instinct was to run," she said.
The police escalated this situation by performing an unnecessary action.

She escalated it when she refused to obey a lawful order. Sure they could have handled it differently but they met their objective.

You don't ignore cops when they tell you to stay put. And if you run you are going to get treated roughly. My father taught me these things when I was a kid.


Yep, but they caused her to run. If she started to run BEFORE they did, I wouldn't really have too much of a problem with this.

Proper training of the police officers might have completely prevented this from being an issue.
I don't really think that running after someone and tackling them is the proper response to someone walking away from a police officer.
When they started running towards her they already made up their minds that they were going to tackle and handcuff her.
They easily could have tried a few things before escalating a routine curfew stop to that level. 

My major problem with this is that the police escalated the situation to something it didn't need to be.
 
2014-07-17 05:16:18 PM  

Click Click D'oh: redmid17: Letting one guy out to talk to the group and then driving a police car up the street isn't likely to elicit the same reaction, imo. Maybe I am incredibly naiive. I don't know.

You think she ran because a cop came after her on foot... but she wouldn't run if a cop came after her in a car?

Really?


Not unless the cop was revving the engine and squealing the tires.
 
2014-07-17 05:16:34 PM  

Headso: jst3p: Headso: Click Click D'oh: Headso: See how you have to say "running people"...


So, she wasn't running?

God this is confusing.

 heh, the police beating up a girl and being wrong about it confuses you.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Hey Elliot Rodger, it might not be "fair" that a man beating up a girl is frowned upon but it is, unless you are on fark,com and that man is a cop.


I have no love for cops, just like I have little sympathy for anyone dumb enough to ignore lawful orders from a cop and then run away from them. As I said earlier, there isn't enough detail about her injuries to know if the force used was excessive, so far as I can tell they are consistent with injuries typically sustained while resisting arrest, which she admits she did.
 
2014-07-17 05:17:14 PM  
Lots of these guys in here today...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-17 05:17:20 PM  

Click Click D'oh: tlars699: 1. I've been stopped by a police officer before, and questioned, without being "detained".

We're you free to leave at any point in the interaction?  If no, they you were detained.


I was a witness to an accident, and asked if they needed me further.

 If by "stopped" you mean "pull over", then you were most certainly detained.
I've also been in an accident myself, and had to wait to report.
But, I wasn't being detained, I was issuing a statement.
If I hadn't waited and was later pulled over, then yes, that would count, but usually a cop car has it's lights on, and it is otherwise clear to the offending party: No. You need to stop.


tlars699: 1b. If they had gotten the info, there would be no further need to detain them.

Again false
How so? If they had exchanged the info needed, why would the police need them to stay?

tlars699: If they weren't getting people's info, the teens weren't being cited, and therefore not detained.

Says who?  You?  LOL.
If they weren't acting on the misdemeanor, then the teens weren't being detained.
They were being lectured.
I didn't realize you always had to ask if you're free to go whenever a police officer says "hello, you shouldn't be out this late" to you.


tlars699: If they hadn't just yet started to get people's info, then what was taking them so long,

Any of a long number of reasons
Like?

tlars699: and why didn't they get out of the friggin' car to start with?

Apparently members of Fark think that's an unacceptable level of escalation on the part of the police.
Only if that's not the first action of the police in question.
If they had gotten out of the car first, and stopped the kids and had them sit on the curb, most likely the girl would not have walked away, or asked them directly if she could go get her bag, instead of having to announce it to a group and not hearing the officers reaction.


tlars699: 4. Only if she hadn't yet been issued the citation, and it was clear they were going to, i.e. getting her info and telling her directly to wait for the ticket.

False on all levels.  If you are being detained by a police officer, you may not leave.  Period.
detained=/= arrested.
You shouldn't have to wait for the gestapo  police to send you on your way home, if they haven't said you're doing anything wrong.
 
2014-07-17 05:17:37 PM  

Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.


No they didn't. It was a choice she made.
 
2014-07-17 05:18:39 PM  

SubBass49: Lots of these guys in here today...

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x295]


We learned it from the Zimmerman threads...
 
2014-07-17 05:19:40 PM  

tlars699: False on all levels.  If you are being detained by a police officer, you may not leave.  Period.
detained=/= arrested.
You shouldn't have to wait for the gestapo  police to send you on your way home, if they haven't said you're doing anything wrong.


If you are being detained you absolutely are not free to go whenever you feel like it. He was right, your rebuttal does not change that.
 
2014-07-17 05:20:08 PM  

jst3p: I have no love for cops, just like I have little sympathy for anyone dumb enough to ignore lawful orders from a cop and then run away from them.


that's where we differ, I have no love for cops but I do have sympathy for anyone who is scared of them.
 
2014-07-17 05:20:14 PM  

jst3p: tlars699: jst3p: tlars699: I am not being intellecutally dishonest. First one thing happened, and then the next thing happened. One started, and caused the other to be set in motion.

Wrong again. The stop did not cause her to disregard the cop and walk (then run) away.  That was a decision she made. The fact that she walked (then ran) away did  cause the cops to use force though. That is how cause and effect actually work.

Also, it has been my position in the thread that  even if the police were right, that she technically had been resisting arrest, that they methods they used to stop her were far in excess.

You are entitled to your opinion, I can only fault you for being wrong about facts.

Yours  seems to be that it was okay, and she should have known better/expected it, despite not having been on the wrong side of the law prior.

She was on the wrong side of the law as soon as she ignored a lawful order.

The stop caused her to wait and reflect on her person, which caused her to think of her bag, which caused her to go back to the store and tell the group and cops where she was going and why, which caused the cops to get out of the car, which caused the girl to panic, and start running which caused the cops to tackle her...

/Which cause the house that Jack Built

That's the problem, you don't tell the cops what you are going to do. Now she knows better.

So, the stop over a violation of curfew led to the police using excessive force. It didn't have to, but it did.

By your logic her waking up and eating breakfast caused her to get a beating that day, hopefully you can see how wrong that is. The only thing that caused her led to to take a beating was her decision to break the law. The rest of it just happened before she took a beating.


FTFY. And yes, that fixed statement would.
She's not going to get ice cream with her friends that late anymore now, is she?
 
2014-07-17 05:20:20 PM  
Obviously the cops overreacted.  And the initial problem was curfew, which I think is ridiculous anyway.  Seriously, if you're a cop and you see kids in the 17-18 year old range walking down the street eating ice cream, does that scream "Major Criminal Enterprise" to you?  There are real criminals out there, go deal with them.

But this is a basic life lesson.  When the cops stop you, running away is always a bad plan.

Once you make the cops chase you down, it's not going to end well.  Especially if they catch up to you and you start fighting.

None of that makes it okay for the cops to beat the crap out of her, but it's not at all surprising.
 
2014-07-17 05:22:30 PM  

JuggleGeek: Obviously the cops overreacted.  And the initial problem was curfew, which I think is ridiculous anyway.  Seriously, if you're a cop and you see kids in the 17-18 year old range walking down the street eating ice cream, does that scream "Major Criminal Enterprise" to you?  There are real criminals out there, go deal with them.

But this is a basic life lesson.  When the cops stop you, running away is always a bad plan.

Once you make the cops chase you down, it's not going to end well.  Especially if they catch up to you and you start fighting.

None of that makes it okay for the cops to beat the crap out of her, but it's not at all surprising.


Here is the thing though, I haven't seen anything that really indicates they beat the crap out of her.
 
2014-07-17 05:23:04 PM  

redmid17: Perpetuous Procrastination: redmid17: Click Click D'oh: redmid17: I'm saying that tackling her was *completely* unnecessary and the cops escalated a situation which, in no way shape or form, required it.

Since you've finally admitted she was running from the police, how would you have stopped her?  Assuming no feats of supernatural strength or speed.

Well you have her friends. You can get her name. Just issue her a ticket later and have a nice talk with her parents about the curfew. No injuries, no bad PR, and some revenue for the city.

You've got 3/4 of them - why bother attempting to stop someone who is willfully and purposely ignoring your questions while attempting to leave a lawful detainment situation? Yeah, that's totally cool. Surely you'd be alright with that in every circumstance, because, well, police can't just make assumptions about situations lest they end up tackling a cheerleader who's breaking the law rather than an actual criminal, right?

/Even Hodor isn't this monotonous.

Well to be honest, it's a non violent crime. Pittsburgh PD has more important shiat to deal with than kids out 5 minutes past curfew getting ice cream. Get out, tell them to go home, and leave it at that. If the person is suspected of a serious crime or has been violent, yeah that's obviously grounds for force.

I don't think force should be used in a situation like this.


But again, we don't know all of the details from this story. The people posting they're just kids walking with ice cream are making an assumption based on the fact that they were leaving an ice cream shop. It's just as likely they were finished with their ice cream before leaving. A group of underage kids walking down the street after dark, unaccompanied by an adult  should warrant some attention (not necessarily negative attention, mind you, but the police checking in on what they're doing isn't out of the ordinary nor unnecessary).

Why is the onus on the police to suddenly stop the escalation when they never started the escalation in the first place? Sure, I think the discussion on whether or not curfews are good or bad is a valid one to have, but the fact is here it DID happen, and there wasn't anything egregious or "harassment" about it. When is the onus on the person being questioned, peacefully, to not be a gigantic dickwad and not only disrespect police who aren't even out of the cruiser but disobey legal detainment? Everyone is willing to give this kid a pass because she's a kid, and in the next story about some kid kicking over a homeless guy's change bucket they'll be up in arms about how our country is going to shiat because something something parenting and a lack of respect for others.

I don't like the image police have currently, even knowing the media tends to sensationalize a lot of this shiat for no reason other than my favorite website. But I can also recognize when they were being entirely reasonable towards a group of teens breaking a fairly mild law only to have one of those teens become a feeling ball of attitude for no reason other than "fuk da polize." This is on her, not them. Every single story isn't "stupid pigs," despite what Fark tends to believe.
 
2014-07-17 05:25:11 PM  

Headso: jst3p: I have no love for cops, just like I have little sympathy for anyone dumb enough to ignore lawful orders from a cop and then run away from them.

that's where we differ, I have no love for cops but I do have sympathy for anyone who is scared of them.


I don't think she was afraid of them soon enough.

"I didn't think cops would do that to me because I'm a girl. And I didn't have anything on me. I was just trying to walk away from the situation,"

...

"I was scared because of how he got out of the car. He didn't just walk out, he jumped out of the car and started chasing me, so my first instinct was to run," she said.

She went from "Whatever, they wont do shiat" to "shiat got real!" quickly.
 
2014-07-17 05:26:41 PM  

Perpetuous Procrastination: Every single story isn't "stupid pigs," despite what Fark tends to believe.


It's true, 99% make the rest look bad.
 
2014-07-17 05:29:28 PM  

jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.

If she had ran before they escalated the cops would be fully justified in chasing her down and tackling her.
They turned this into a "running" situation.
The cops escalated it to the level so they are culpable for changing the situation from "we told you to stay and you were walking away"
She would not have run if the police officers hadn't escalated, thus they caused her to run.

That is my issue with this.

Time and time again I see this with police officers. They escalate situations constantly and seemingly have no training in de-escalation.
 
2014-07-17 05:29:58 PM  

jst3p: tlars699: False on all levels.  If you are being detained by a police officer, you may not leave.  Period.
detained=/= arrested.
You shouldn't have to wait for the gestapo  police to send you on your way home, if they haven't said you're doing anything wrong.

If you are being detained you absolutely are not free to go whenever you feel like it. He was right, your rebuttal does not change that.


Don't they have to tell you that first, though? Not just, "Hey, you're out past curfew"?

A good example of what should be said: "Now, you have to wait here while we issue a citation."
Also, how far was the ice cream shop? 50 feet from where they were? 500 feet? 2 miles?


Now that we've been debating though, it occurs to me that the cop car's lights may have been on.

At which point, if she has her driver's license, how would she not know that she has to stay there?

If the lights were not on, would she still be "detained"?

What would be a good indicator of such?
 
2014-07-17 05:32:40 PM  

Perpetuous Procrastination: redmid17: Perpetuous Procrastination: redmid17: Click Click D'oh: redmid17: I'm saying that tackling her was *completely* unnecessary and the cops escalated a situation which, in no way shape or form, required it.

Since you've finally admitted she was running from the police, how would you have stopped her?  Assuming no feats of supernatural strength or speed.

Well you have her friends. You can get her name. Just issue her a ticket later and have a nice talk with her parents about the curfew. No injuries, no bad PR, and some revenue for the city.

You've got 3/4 of them - why bother attempting to stop someone who is willfully and purposely ignoring your questions while attempting to leave a lawful detainment situation? Yeah, that's totally cool. Surely you'd be alright with that in every circumstance, because, well, police can't just make assumptions about situations lest they end up tackling a cheerleader who's breaking the law rather than an actual criminal, right?

/Even Hodor isn't this monotonous.

Well to be honest, it's a non violent crime. Pittsburgh PD has more important shiat to deal with than kids out 5 minutes past curfew getting ice cream. Get out, tell them to go home, and leave it at that. If the person is suspected of a serious crime or has been violent, yeah that's obviously grounds for force.

I don't think force should be used in a situation like this.

But again, we don't know all of the details from this story. The people posting they're just kids walking with ice cream are making an assumption based on the fact that they were leaving an ice cream shop. It's just as likely they were finished with their ice cream before leaving. A group of underage kids walking down the street after dark, unaccompanied by an adult  should warrant some attention (not necessarily negative attention, mind you, but the police checking in on what they're doing isn't out of the ordinary nor unnecessary).

Why is the onus on the police to suddenly stop the escalation ...


Please tell me where in the article you found out that they had a "fark the police" attitude or being "a gigantic dickwad and not only disrespect police..."
 
2014-07-17 05:33:48 PM  

Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.


I don't understand. If she made the decision to run she escalated the situation.
 
2014-07-17 05:33:58 PM  
This curfew business sounds unconstitutional.
 
2014-07-17 05:34:01 PM  

redmid17: Click Click D'oh: redmid17: Letting one guy out to talk to the group and then driving a police car up the street isn't likely to elicit the same reaction, imo. Maybe I am incredibly naiive. I don't know.

You think she ran because a cop came after her on foot... but she wouldn't run if a cop came after her in a car?

Really?

Not unless the cop was revving the engine and squealing the tires.


Based on what data?
 
2014-07-17 05:35:30 PM  

Perpetuous Procrastination: redmid17: Perpetuous Procrastination: redmid17: Click Click D'oh: redmid17: I'm saying that tackling her was *completely* unnecessary and the cops escalated a situation which, in no way shape or form, required it.

Since you've finally admitted she was running from the police, how would you have stopped her?  Assuming no feats of supernatural strength or speed.

Well you have her friends. You can get her name. Just issue her a ticket later and have a nice talk with her parents about the curfew. No injuries, no bad PR, and some revenue for the city.

You've got 3/4 of them - why bother attempting to stop someone who is willfully and purposely ignoring your questions while attempting to leave a lawful detainment situation? Yeah, that's totally cool. Surely you'd be alright with that in every circumstance, because, well, police can't just make assumptions about situations lest they end up tackling a cheerleader who's breaking the law rather than an actual criminal, right?

/Even Hodor isn't this monotonous.

Well to be honest, it's a non violent crime. Pittsburgh PD has more important shiat to deal with than kids out 5 minutes past curfew getting ice cream. Get out, tell them to go home, and leave it at that. If the person is suspected of a serious crime or has been violent, yeah that's obviously grounds for force.

I don't think force should be used in a situation like this.

But again, we don't know all of the details from this story. The people posting they're just kids walking with ice cream are making an assumption based on the fact that they were leaving an ice cream shop. It's just as likely they were finished with their ice cream before leaving. A group of underage kids walking down the street after dark, unaccompanied by an adult  should warrant some attention (not necessarily negative attention, mind you, but the police checking in on what they're doing isn't out of the ordinary nor unnecessary).

Why is the onus on the police to suddenly stop the escalation ...


Stopping and asking questions=/=detaining=/=arresting.
If the cops were just lecturing them about curfew, why should she have to stay?
If the cops were issuing a citation, then she would be detained, but that isn't the same thing as arrest.
Walking away from being "detained" shouldn't equal "resisting arrest", particularly if it isn't clear what being detained means.
 
2014-07-17 05:35:40 PM  

jst3p: She went from "Whatever, they wont do shiat" to "shiat got real!" quickly.


meh, still doesn't get me to blame the victim
 
2014-07-17 05:35:55 PM  
I really would enjoy Fark adding a "Stupid" button for comments to sit there next to funny & smart.  There's some folks in here that would be racking up astronomical numbers of clicks.
 
2014-07-17 05:36:20 PM  

jst3p: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.

I don't understand. If she made the decision to run she escalated the situation.


She ran when they ran to tackle her. 
They ran to tackle her when she walked. 

Big difference in escalation
 
2014-07-17 05:37:35 PM  

jst3p: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.

I don't understand. If she made the decision to run she escalated the situation.


His argument is that if you ignore a police order, and then the police get out of their car and run after you, you have no choice but to run.  There is no other option, as the fact that they are running towards you means you have to run.  Had they not run at her, she would still have options.
 
2014-07-17 05:39:04 PM  

Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.

I don't understand. If she made the decision to run she escalated the situation.

She ran when they ran to tackle bring her back
They ran to tackle bring her back when she walked. 

Big difference in escalation


FTFY
 
2014-07-17 05:42:53 PM  

SubBass49: She ran when they ran to tackle bring her back.


riiight, the guy who  literally jumps at the chance to beat up teen girls was going to act in a reasonable way.
 
2014-07-17 05:44:00 PM  
SubBass49: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.

I don't understand. If she made the decision to run she escalated the situation.

She ran when they ran to tackle bring her back. arrest her.
They ran to tackle bring her back  arrest herwhen she walked. 

Big difference in escalation

FTFY


Let's be real here, the tackle was going to happen at this point.
 
2014-07-17 05:44:04 PM  

Nezorf: Please tell me where in the article you found out that they had a "fark the police" attitude or being "a gigantic dickwad and not only disrespect police..."

"

I was just trying to walk away from the situation."

"...the officers tried to detain them.Wright said she continued walking away from the officers..."

"
I thought I was going to be getting beaten up for hours."

"admits... that she both ran from officers and resisted them after being tackled."

So to clarify:

-She was exempting herself from talking to the police in a respectful, peaceful manner because reasons.
-She ignored commands to stop/remain there when issued because reasons.
-She was OMG SCARED! when the police react to her ignoring their commands and exit the car to chase after her.
-She escalated her attempt to flee and gets tackled because duh.
-She fights with police, claiming defense, despite admitting to escalating the situation TWICE prior.
-Is shocked, SHOCKED, to find said resisting results in injury.

She's a disrespectful moron who thought she was above talking to the police while violating curfew. Rather than resolving it peacefully as her friends managed (EGADS! 75% of the participants walked away unharmed? It's purely coincidence, of course), she decided to get stupid and ended up with some minor bruising and scrapes.

No pity here.
 
2014-07-17 05:44:21 PM  

MycroftHolmes: jst3p: Nezorf: jst3p: Nezorf: Yep, but they caused her to run.

No they didn't. It was a choice she made.


She made the decision to run but the cops made the decision to escalate it to that level.

I don't understand. If she made the decision to run she escalated the situation.

His argument is that if you ignore a police order, and then the police get out of their car and run after you, you have no choice but to run.  There is no other option, as the fact that they are running towards you means you have to run.  Had they not run at her, she would still have options.


Nope that is not my argument at all

Let me explain it this way

Police jump out of car, chase down and tackle an individual walking away from them
Police jump out of car, chase down and tackle an individual running away from them

Only one of those is not an appropriate response. 

The girl is a dumbass and I am in no way forgiving her for running from the cops. That's stupid as hell.

My only issue is with the police's decision to escalate the situation, which seems to happen a lot.
 
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