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(WTAE)   Police see cheerleader walking home with friends eating ice cream after 10 PM, so they protect and serve the hell out of her   (wtae.com ) divider line
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25183 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2014 at 12:37 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-17 03:42:24 PM  
It's creepy how much that article reads like something that would occur in some dystopian novel.
 
2014-07-17 03:43:10 PM  

SubBass49: jst3p: redmid17: jst3p: redmid17: jst3p: redmid17: Does anyone seriously think this: "THE OFFICERS HANDCUFFED HER DAUGHTER, AND PLANNED TO PUT HER IN A DETENTION CENTER, UNTIL DOCTORS TOLD THEM HER INJURIES WERE TOO SEVERE." is an acceptable outcome for unlawfully, but peacefully, ignoring a police command to stop?

Not only is it acceptable, it is entirely predictable.


I'd give you predictable, but not acceptable. How is that even remotely acceptable?

Cops are assholes but they have a rough job. Once someone has shown they aren't going to cooperate they need to get things under control quickly for their own safety. Sometimes people are going to get hurt.

What imminent threat was this 17 year old girl presenting to them? I'm not talking conceptually. I'm talking about this specific incident.

In the moment, the cop has no idea what threat she could present. She could be carrying a weapon.

Could have a warrant out as well.  Cops have a pretty farking tough job to do.  Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.  Best advice for dealing with cops: don't.  Best advice if you have no choice?  Be polite and follow directions.


If speaking to teenage girls holding ice cream cones is 'adrenalin-and-stress filled' perhaps they should not be police officers.  I'm thinking broccoli quality inspector or fark.com admin might be more their speed.
 
2014-07-17 03:43:31 PM  

The Missing Link: Just curious, how do you know the police pulled her hair and stomped her?


FTFA:

"(The officer) ran full force at her and she ran from him," said Destiny Hester. "They pounced on her, then started kicking her and pulling her hair."

"I hear her screaming, I run over there and she's on the ground. They're over there beating her up, kicking her, pulling her hair," said witness Bryon Clifford.


Maybe if you read the article...
 
2014-07-17 03:43:35 PM  

jst3p: tlars699: Click Click D'oh: tlars699: DUE PROCESS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_C on stitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

Jeebus, are we really that far gone?!

Where in any of those links does it say that there is no arrest without a reading of the Miranda Rights first?

Exact quotes please.

I'll wait.

Fair enough. It says Miranda Rights must be read when in custody, and being questioned. My previous understanding was or, which was wrong.

However:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_arrest
A police officer, or a person authorized by a jurisdiction's police powers act, may arrest anyone whom the officer has reasonable or probable cause to believe has commiteed any criminal offence.
 However, in the case of a misdemanor, offence, or non-criminal offence (such as a municipalby-law offence) the officer may arrest the suspect only long enough toidentify the suspect and give the suspect a summons to appear in court, unless there is reason to believe they will not appear in answer to the summons

If they knew who she was, and had taken her name down, there would be no reason to further restrain her.

You just don't stop with the stupid, do you? Disobeying his lawful order to "get back here" is resisting arrest, a criminal offense.

Once again, you are completely wrong.


Article says what now? It just says "They were told they were being detained" while the one girl walked far enough away in the meantime, and she didn't stop right away? Oh, okay, I may not be "completely wrong"

Cop saying inside a vehicle to "tell your friend to get back here, we're not done talking here" and then running to go beat her up, is not the same as yelling at the girl to "Stop! You need to stay here while we file a report!"
 
Ant
2014-07-17 03:43:39 PM  

LZeitgeist: Merceedez

[0-media-cdn.foolz.us image 250x272]


Yeah! fark those people who have different-sounding names! fark you, Ping and Baljeet and Pedro and Shilpy! Everyone should be named John or Jane or Jeff or Jennifer!
 
2014-07-17 03:44:02 PM  

EViLTeW: Curfew violation: Reason to stop and talk to you
Running away from cops when they try to stop and talk to you: Reason to tackle you
Trying to free yourself from restraint after being tackled for running away from cops who have stopped to talk to you: A likely chance that cops will use too much force to subdue you.

I'm not saying she deserved the damage she received, but to argue she didn't deserve any of this over a curfew violation is disingenuous at best.  She received the damage she did for running and resisting.


I tend to agree.  I was 19 and drunk one night on bourbon street and a bunch of assholes were talking shiat to my group of friends.  Well, the cops know when troubles starting so they start taking us all down before it got beyond the screaming match we were having.  The cop that took me down did it from behind and smashed my face into the concrete.  He then dragged me on to the hood of the cop car and slammed me down onto my bruised, bleeding, and swollen cheek.  I tried to raise my damaged cheek from the hood of the cop car so it wasn't pressing there painfully, but I was told to stop resisting (I wasn't flailing, just trying to clear the hood by an inch), and repeatedly slammed back into the hood.  Back then I was pissed, but after a couple of hours in the drunk tank, it kind of makes sense.  There's no way for them to know why you're moving as they're trying to subdue you.  I could have had a weapon for all they knew.  It seems this girl had the same reaction.  Get your hands free to protect your face.  It's a tough situation.  If they had gone easy on her because she was just a seventeen year old girl, she could have pulled a weapon and ended their lives (highly doubtful, but all it takes is one and it's game over).
 
2014-07-17 03:44:17 PM  

jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?


Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.  A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time.  It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.
 
2014-07-17 03:44:20 PM  

Click Click D'oh: redmid17: Cops escalate the situation from non-violence to violence and stomp someone hundreds of times every day?

If that's the way you wish to read my response, I can't stop that. It's clearly not what I meant.  What I was commenting on was the big bold part you wrote:

"THE OFFICERS HANDCUFFED HER DAUGHTER, AND PLANNED TO PUT HER IN A DETENTION CENTER, UNTIL DOCTORS TOLD THEM HER INJURIES WERE TOO SEVERE "

Yes, hundreds of times per day officers take into custody suspects who are in some way injured during their altercations with police and those suspects end up going to seek medical care instead of straight to jail.

I still fail to see anything special about this incident.  Without a detailed accounting of her injuries I don't see anything that isn't inline with a forcible take down and handcuffing.


Then be more specific. It wouldn't shock anyone to know that criminals or people under arrest have to go to the hospital for injuries. They are just usually hammered drunk, attacked someone, or gave the cops a legitimate reason to use lots of force.
 
2014-07-17 03:45:13 PM  

tlars699: Secret Master of All Flatulence: tlars699: If they knew who she was, and had taken her name down, there would be no reason to further restrain her.

It's pretty obvious that she didn't identify herself before running...

Did you read the article at all- the police were talking with the whole group.
The group told the police officers that a bag/phone was left behind where they came from- one girl had started walking away to go get the stuff. She looked back to see police officers jumping out of their car, sprinting towards her, and she subsequently started to run, was tackled and then beaten.

She didn't just start running, she was walking first, and if the police officers had just asked her to stop without leaping out of their vehicle, or jeebus, driving up to her with the lights on, she probably would have stopped and given explanation.

Why did she want the phone? Maybe to Call Home and Let her Parents know she was going to be late, because Cops?

GEE.


I am not sure what you were reading.  This is the paragraph in the article that comes closest to your version of events

Wright said she and her friends were walking home from the Soft Serve and Dee-Lites ice cream shop on Miller Avenue when they were stopped by officers for being out after curfew. When they tried to go back to pick up a bag and a phone they left behind, they claim the officers tried to detain them.
Wright said she continued walking away from the officers, who then allegedly used force to stop her.


By her own description, she was going back to get her stuff when the officers tried to stop her, not the other way around.  If she ignored their attempts to stop her, they chased her down.  So basically, she is out after curfew, they roll up on them and start asking questions.  She ignores and keeps walking away.  They exit the key and she starts to run.  They tackle her, and she is injured.  Are there any parts of the above that you disagree with factually?
 
2014-07-17 03:45:22 PM  

MycroftHolmes: Headso: MycroftHolmes: Characterizing these actions as psycho is unsubstantiated by the description of the events.  Unless you make the assumption that all LEO are psycho, which would be a ridiculously silly assumption to make.

some grown man aggressively running at a teenager girl and then tackling her and beating her are the actions of a psycho so I am going by just this guy's actions. that said there's enough stories of the police beating up children, deaf people, blind people, old people, people in wheelchairs, people in diabetic shock, people with mental disabilities that the odds are good enough the one you are dealing with might be one of those countless police officers and if someone panics and runs from that IMO I can't blame them.

Wow, so she knew he was a psycho and ran from them because they knew what he was about to do if she ran?  amazing.

I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that 99% or more of daily interactions with police do not result in a beating.


No, I am suggesting she believed he might be a psycho because of the constant stories of police brutality sunk in to her subconscious and then when he beat her to the point of being hospitalized her belief was proven correct.
 
2014-07-17 03:45:25 PM  

Egoy3k: If speaking to teenage girls holding ice cream cones is 'adrenalin-and-stress filled' perhaps they should not be police officers.  I'm thinking broccoli quality inspector or fark.com admin might be more their speed.


Of course...because as well all know, females are incapable of violence...amiright?
 
2014-07-17 03:46:02 PM  

SubBass49: Egoy3k: If speaking to teenage girls holding ice cream cones is 'adrenalin-and-stress filled' perhaps they should not be police officers.  I'm thinking broccoli quality inspector or fark.com admin might be more their speed.

Of course...because as we all know, females are incapable of violence...amiright?


FTFM
 
2014-07-17 03:46:32 PM  
Curfew in the Land of the Free.

seems legit.
 
2014-07-17 03:46:50 PM  

tlars699: jst3p: tlars699: Click Click D'oh: tlars699: DUE PROCESS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_C on stitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

Jeebus, are we really that far gone?!

Where in any of those links does it say that there is no arrest without a reading of the Miranda Rights first?

Exact quotes please.

I'll wait.

Fair enough. It says Miranda Rights must be read when in custody, and being questioned. My previous understanding was or, which was wrong.

However:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_arrest
A police officer, or a person authorized by a jurisdiction's police powers act, may arrest anyone whom the officer has reasonable or probable cause to believe has commiteed any criminal offence.
 However, in the case of a misdemanor, offence, or non-criminal offence (such as a municipalby-law offence) the officer may arrest the suspect only long enough toidentify the suspect and give the suspect a summons to appear in court, unless there is reason to believe they will not appear in answer to the summons

If they knew who she was, and had taken her name down, there would be no reason to further restrain her.

You just don't stop with the stupid, do you? Disobeying his lawful order to "get back here" is resisting arrest, a criminal offense.

Once again, you are completely wrong.

Article says what now? It just says "They were told they were being detained" while the one girl walked far enough away in the meantime, and she didn't stop right away? Oh, okay, I may not be "completely wrong"

Cop saying inside a vehicle to "tell your friend to get back here, we're not done talking here" and then running to go beat her up, is not the same as yelling at the girl to "Stop! You need to stay here while we file a report!"


Here is what the article says:

When they tried to go back to pick up a bag and a phone they left behind, they claim the officers tried to detain them.
Wright said she continued walking away from the officers, who then allegedly used force to stop her.


Someone said, "Can we go back and get our stuff?" Cop said "No, you are being detained." She ignores them and keeps walking.

Yes, you are completely wrong even by HER account.
 
2014-07-17 03:47:17 PM  

SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?

Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.   A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time. It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.


The whole "us vs them" mentality is a huge issue in the first place. If they stopped acting everyone was out to kill them, their job would get easier.
 
2014-07-17 03:48:06 PM  

redmid17: SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?

Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.   A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time.  It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.

The whole "us vs them" mentality is a huge issue in the first place. If they stopped acting everyone was out to kill them, their job would get easier them killed.


FTFY
 
2014-07-17 03:48:57 PM  

SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?

Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.  A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time.  It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.



...so, your conception of being a cop is that every moment is an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" then -- since, presumably someone could shoot at you anywhere, at any time, for any reason?

Technically I suppose that's not wrong, but someone who is living in constant fear is probably too highly-strung to being a police officer.  Sooner or later they will snap and beat the living shiat out of a random person for no reason (or worse).
 
2014-07-17 03:49:03 PM  

redmid17: If you have no reason to suspect that, there's no reason to use that much force. They were stopped for violating curfew with ice cream in their hands.


The use of force police are allowed to use has nothing to do with what the people were doing when they were stopped or what you suspect the people might be up to.  The level of force authorized is only directly related to what the person is doing at the immediate time force is being used against them.  Sure, it might have started as a curfew stop, but that has nothing to do with the level of force allowed to be used to detain a person fighting a police officer.
 
2014-07-17 03:50:03 PM  
Thank god we have police forces out to protect us all from the scourge of 17 year old girls being out past 10PM.
 
2014-07-17 03:50:06 PM  

redmid17: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Nope.   Of course, the arrestee here wasn't "unlawfully, but peacefully".She knew or should have known that she wasn't free to leave.  She ran.  They chased.  She was stopped, and resisted with force.  She got beat on until she was cuffed.  End of story.  Now, if she was laying still on the ground with her arms cuffed behind her back, and a bunch of Officers then decided to put the boot in, THAT would be unreasonable.

That's a splendid misreading of the article.


FTFA:

"Wright said she and her friends were walking home from the Soft Serve and Dee-Lites ice cream shop on Miller Avenue when they were stopped by officers for being out after curfew. When they tried to go back to pick up a bag and a phone they left behind, they claim the officers tried to detain them.
Wright said she continued walking away from the officers, who then allegedly used force to stop her."


Cops stop group.  She tries to walk away. Cops pursue. She runs.  Cops chase, stop her.  She forcibly resists arrest.  They forcefully subdue her.

Please note:  This is what HER side says happens, and they are most likely to paint things in the best light for her.

/Move along, nothing to see here.
 
2014-07-17 03:50:35 PM  

Headso: MycroftHolmes: Headso: MycroftHolmes: Characterizing these actions as psycho is unsubstantiated by the description of the events.  Unless you make the assumption that all LEO are psycho, which would be a ridiculously silly assumption to make.

some grown man aggressively running at a teenager girl and then tackling her and beating her are the actions of a psycho so I am going by just this guy's actions. that said there's enough stories of the police beating up children, deaf people, blind people, old people, people in wheelchairs, people in diabetic shock, people with mental disabilities that the odds are good enough the one you are dealing with might be one of those countless police officers and if someone panics and runs from that IMO I can't blame them.

Wow, so she knew he was a psycho and ran from them because they knew what he was about to do if she ran?  amazing.

I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that 99% or more of daily interactions with police do not result in a beating.

No, I am suggesting she believed he might be a psycho because of the constant stories of police brutality sunk in to her subconscious and then when he beat her to the point of being hospitalized her belief was proven correct.


Got it.  She was justified in running from police because of the sensationalist nature of press, and this invalidates the need to restrain her when she was running.

Actually, no, I don't get it.  I think your argument is just boiling down to 'Cops bad'.
 
2014-07-17 03:51:10 PM  

SubBass49: redmid17: SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?

Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.   A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time.  It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.

The whole "us vs them" mentality is a huge issue in the first place. If they stopped acting everyone was out to kill them, their job would get easier them killed.

FTFY


More cops get killed by car accidents than get shot.
 
2014-07-17 03:51:15 PM  

Recoil Therapy: Misconduc: Nope didn't get tazed, beaten - he asked if he could get the gun first until he figures out the situation; I said no problem - he took my luger and placed it in his car and shut the door

You carry a Luger around with you?  Those are worth a LOT of money.  You may want to carry something else because if you ever have to shoot someone there's a real possibility of it vanishing into some corrupt jerks private collection....

/back to being amused by those who think that you won't eat some pavement if you make the police chase you
//it may not be right but it will be happening & the police will get away with it
///don't put yourself in the position where they have a legal reason to whomp on you, many of them will do so enthusiastically


It was a given situation (girl claimed guy was beating her to death) - so I grabbed my grandfathers gun and out the door I went; it was in a safe for over 30 years without even being removed; hell I didn't even realize it had no bullets either. Oops?
 
2014-07-17 03:51:16 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Merceedez  Wright


I checked three other sites and her twitter just to confirm that spelling. I feel dirty now.
 
2014-07-17 03:51:46 PM  

Click Click D'oh: tlars699: If they knew who she was, and had taken her name down, there would be no reason to further restrain her.

Wrong again.
1) By the time the officers finally got ID out of her she had already committed other offenses other than the curfew violation.  The curfew violation would likely have been a cite and release, but the resisting arrest is a trip to jail offense

2) Cite and release is contingent entirely upon the officers belief that the cited person will appear in court of their own will.  Even police officer in most jurisdictions can take a person to jail on a misdemeanor if they believe the person won't appear to answer the citation.  Since she's already demonstrated a will to flee and resist arrest, an officer could easily make that argument.


The officers had been talking with the whole group. How would htey not have been collecting names by that point?
Your #2 point is entirely contingent that she didn't provide the necessary information which is not clear based on article.
She may have given her name and address, and was forced to wait around, found out she was missing a bag and her phone, and said to the police, "Well, I've done my thing, I'm going to go get my stuff at the shop before Raymone locks it up for the night." and started walking off.
We don't know that.

Also, even if they hadn't gotten her info, I would say that the police's escalation was far in excess of what was warranted to solve the situation. One guy can stay by the group and file reports, and the other can use the car to track her down at walking speed.
Or you know, just ask the friends who she is, or track her down at the ice cream shop.
 
2014-07-17 03:52:47 PM  

redmid17: They are just usually hammered drunk, attacked someone, or gave the cops a legitimate reason to use lots of force.


Or, they landed wrong on pavement being tackled at the end of a pursuit and no other force was used at all.  Because pavement hurts,  Since we don't know the actual extent of this persons injuries, it seems a bit premature to assume excessive force was used.
 
2014-07-17 03:52:48 PM  

CeroX: The Missing Link: Just curious, how do you know the police pulled her hair and stomped her?

FTFA:

"(The officer) ran full force at her and she ran from him," said Destiny Hester. "They pounced on her, then started kicking her and pulling her hair."

"I hear her screaming, I run over there and she's on the ground. They're over there beating her up, kicking her, pulling her hair," said witness Bryon Clifford.

Maybe if you read the article...


Oh, so you are trusting what some teenage kids and "witnesses" are saying and giving them the benefit of doubt? You are the same type of guy that would want the cops to prove everything they do and say but believe everything the potential perps say.

Did these witnesses say if she was striking the cops? Just as you can trust the witnesses, I can trust the cops by the resisting charges.
 
2014-07-17 03:52:55 PM  

SubBass49: Egoy3k: If speaking to teenage girls holding ice cream cones is 'adrenalin-and-stress filled' perhaps they should not be police officers.  I'm thinking broccoli quality inspector or fark.com admin might be more their speed.

Of course...because as well all know, females are incapable of violence...amiright?


I never said that, don't be stupid.
 
2014-07-17 03:53:00 PM  

jshine: SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?

Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.  A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time.  It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.


...so, your conception of being a cop is that every moment is an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" then -- since, presumably someone could shoot at you anywhere, at any time, for any reason?

Technically I suppose that's not wrong, but someone who is living in constant fear is probably too highly-strung to being a police officer.  Sooner or later they will snap and beat the living shiat out of a random person for no reason (or worse).


I know a cop personally.  While I find him to be a bit of a scumbag, we've talked about the adrenaline rush and the time that it takes for the adrenaline to leave your system.  Also talked about the long-term health effects of such elevated adrenaline levels.  You have to be 100% "on" every minute while you wear your uniform.  You don't know the person in front of you from anyone else under the sun, and it only takes a split second for them to attack you...in many cases they're dealing with mental health or drug issues (or a lovely combo of the two).  They could be wanted fugitives with warrants out.  They could also be a 4.0 honor roll valedictorian.  As a cop, you don't know either way, so in order to come home at the end of the night without a tag on your toe, you assume the worst.

Surprised someone with seemingly reasonable levels of intelligence can't manage to comprehend that.
 
2014-07-17 03:53:23 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Merceedez  Wright


What makes this brilliant has also cost you a point, for a total score of 8.90/10.

You effectively derailed a cop hate thread into the uncanny authoritarian valley, where the by-and-large middle of the road lumpenbourgeois that make up Fark climb off their usually left of center high horses and descend into the place where it's fine that a little gitrl was hospitalized by the police, because she is black. Had you not done that, we'd be knee deep in bomb throwing anarchists by now and it's refreshing to see some classic, whites only drinking fountain sunset town racism again.


That's professional-class work and the Guild commends you. And I thank you, Your check is in the mail. But one point deducted for frank race baiting without the use of "you people", a clear breech of policy.
 
2014-07-17 03:53:26 PM  

caddisfly: Pocket Ninja: Merceedez  Wright

I checked three other sites and her twitter just to confirm that spelling. I feel dirty now.


When she doesn't get a huge payout in a few years; just wait for her name to pop up in porno.

/why not? first name is all she needs to use
 
2014-07-17 03:54:01 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: Tigger: There should be no such thing as a farking curfew at all.

I agree, if they're able to run around and do whatever pleases them all night, sooner or later these things will take care of themselves.


I made a sport of ducking cops, past curfew.

Seriously, I never got caught ,and it taught me how to be a criminal.

Your move.
 
2014-07-17 03:54:08 PM  

Click Click D'oh: redmid17: If you have no reason to suspect that, there's no reason to use that much force. They were stopped for violating curfew with ice cream in their hands.

The use of force police are allowed to use has nothing to do with what the people were doing when they were stopped or what you suspect the people might be up to.  The level of force authorized is only directly related to what the person is doing at the immediate time force is being used against them.  Sure, it might have started as a curfew stop, but that has nothing to do with the level of force allowed to be used to detain a person fighting a police officer.


I don't know how many times I need to repeat this, they didn't have to tackle her. They did.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: redmid17: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Nope.   Of course, the arrestee here wasn't "unlawfully, but peacefully".She knew or should have known that she wasn't free to leave.  She ran.  They chased.  She was stopped, and resisted with force.  She got beat on until she was cuffed.  End of story.  Now, if she was laying still on the ground with her arms cuffed behind her back, and a bunch of Officers then decided to put the boot in, THAT would be unreasonable.

That's a splendid misreading of the article.

FTFA:

"Wright said she and her friends were walking home from the Soft Serve and Dee-Lites ice cream shop on Miller Avenue when they were stopped by officers for being out after curfew. When they tried to go back to pick up a bag and a phone they left behind, they claim the officers tried to detain them.
Wright said she continued walking away from the officers, who then allegedly used force to stop her."

Cops stop group.  She tries to walk away. Cops pursue. She runs.  Cops chase, stop her.  She forcibly resists arrest.  They forcefully subdue her.

Please note:  This is what HER side says happens, and they are most likely to paint things in the best light for her.

/Move along, nothing to see here.


THEY DIDN'T NEED TO TACKLE HER
 
2014-07-17 03:54:13 PM  
Has anyone answered why were the cops even wasting their time with the curfew issue since it wasn't like 1AM?
 
2014-07-17 03:54:15 PM  

redmid17: More cops get killed by car accidents than get shot.


Probably because they're extra careful...you know, to avoid getting shot.  Kind of what we're talking about here, right?  Try to pay attention.
 
2014-07-17 03:54:36 PM  

jst3p: tlars699: She didn't just start running, she was walking first, and if the police officers had just asked her to stop without leaping out of their vehicle, or jeebus, driving up to her with the lights on, she probably would have stopped and given explanation.

That is her version. How much you want to bet in the report he states that in a loud clear voice he instructed her to stop and she ignored his command?


I would say that it is possible, but "ignored" or "failed to hear"? If she reacted to his say so by running, that would be acknowledgement of his order, and resisting arrest.
If she failed to hear him and one dude caught up to her, and said, "Hey, we still need to do our report, so you can't go yet," wouldn't be nearly so scary to her, and may have ended up without her being in the hospital.
 
2014-07-17 03:55:48 PM  

Click Click D'oh: redmid17: They are just usually hammered drunk, attacked someone, or gave the cops a legitimate reason to use lots of force.

Or, they landed wrong on pavement being tackled at the end of a pursuit and no other force was used at all.  Because pavement hurts,  Since we don't know the actual extent of this persons injuries, it seems a bit premature to assume excessive force was used.


Other than the witness talking about hair pulling, kicking and punching...
 
2014-07-17 03:55:52 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: redmid17: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Nope.   Of course, the arrestee here wasn't "unlawfully, but peacefully".She knew or should have known that she wasn't free to leave.  She ran.  They chased.  She was stopped, and resisted with force.  She got beat on until she was cuffed.  End of story.  Now, if she was laying still on the ground with her arms cuffed behind her back, and a bunch of Officers then decided to put the boot in, THAT would be unreasonable.

That's a splendid misreading of the article.

FTFA:

"Wright said she and her friends were walking home from the Soft Serve and Dee-Lites ice cream shop on Miller Avenue when they were stopped by officers for being out after curfew. When they tried to go back to pick up a bag and a phone they left behind, they claim the officers tried to detain them.
Wright said she continued walking away from the officers, who then allegedly used force to stop her."

Cops stop group.  She tries to walk away. Cops pursue. She runs.  Cops chase, stop her.  She forcibly resists arrest.  They forcefully subdue her.

Please note:  This is what HER side says happens, and they are most likely to paint things in the best light for her.

/Move along, nothing to see here.


Where was the "forcibly resists arrest" part in the account?

She ran, the cops tackled and proceeded to beat the shiat out of her for contempt of cop. This isn't rocket science.

She was stupid for running, but what many of us now consider a "reasonable use of force" by police is staggering to me.

It's kind of cyclical. Shiat like this is why people run from cops, this is why no one trusts cops. At any moment a cop is around you, they can beat the shiat out of you legally and make up the reason later. Half the populace will then cheer them for doing so.
 
2014-07-17 03:56:31 PM  

gfid: pedrop357: Barely 1 out of 3.  The German proposal apparently went nowhere and the one in Paris was aimed at everyone and all businesses to stop 'lawlessness'.

Oh, I didn't realize it only had to apply to teens

How about Italy?

http://www.waxahachietx.com/news/ellis_county/italy-council-adopts-c ur few-for-teens/article_19cce600-eddc-528f-bedd-f91bb32c1206.html

or Iceland or the UK?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curfew#Iceland

I'll skip countries like Thailand and Egypt since those curfews are sort of coup related.

You'll probably say this one in Brazil doesn't count either because of the werewolf

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/19/werewolf-footage-night-ti me -curfew-terrified-brazilian-residents-video_n_4814741.html

The point is it's incorrect to say that the US is the only place in the world that has curfew laws.  I've never lived anywhere that had a curfew and I've moved around a bit.


Yes, but if I move the goalposts to, "curfew for teens wearing scuba gear and carrying pink parasols," you will find that NO CITY outside of the USA has such a curfew.

/STUDY IT OUT
 
2014-07-17 03:56:59 PM  
redmid17:  More cops get killed by car accidents cars than get shot.

FTFY.

You do understand that a car is generally about three thousand pounds worth of guided missile, right?

/Has heard of far more cases of people trying to run down cops with a car than attempting to shoot at them.
 
2014-07-17 03:57:07 PM  

MycroftHolmes: Headso: MycroftHolmes: Headso: MycroftHolmes: Characterizing these actions as psycho is unsubstantiated by the description of the events.  Unless you make the assumption that all LEO are psycho, which would be a ridiculously silly assumption to make.

some grown man aggressively running at a teenager girl and then tackling her and beating her are the actions of a psycho so I am going by just this guy's actions. that said there's enough stories of the police beating up children, deaf people, blind people, old people, people in wheelchairs, people in diabetic shock, people with mental disabilities that the odds are good enough the one you are dealing with might be one of those countless police officers and if someone panics and runs from that IMO I can't blame them.

Wow, so she knew he was a psycho and ran from them because they knew what he was about to do if she ran?  amazing.

I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that 99% or more of daily interactions with police do not result in a beating.

No, I am suggesting she believed he might be a psycho because of the constant stories of police brutality sunk in to her subconscious and then when he beat her to the point of being hospitalized her belief was proven correct.

Got it.  She was justified in running from police because of the sensationalist nature of press, and this invalidates the need to restrain her when she was running.

Actually, no, I don't get it.  I think your argument is just boiling down to 'Cops bad'.


Based on the fact that she was personally beaten by the police I don't think she'd call stories of police brutality "sensationalism". You're the only one saying she was justified in running, I am just saying it is understandable to run from someone you associate with beating defenseless people.  Where we disagree is you believe it is fine to beat up a teenage girl in this scenario and I don't.
 
2014-07-17 03:57:19 PM  
Here is what the article says:

When they tried to go back to pick up a bag and a phone they left behind, they claim the officers tried to detain them.
Wright said she continued walking away from the officers, who then allegedly used force to stop her.


Someone said, "Can we go back and get our stuff?" Cop said "No, you are being detained." She ignores them and keeps walking.

Yes, you are completely wrong even by HER account.


And how do the cops know what is in the bag that she is going to get? What if there was a gun in there? Cops cannot let someone the are questioning just leave to go pick up a bag.
 
2014-07-17 03:57:23 PM  
Just curious... if the cops in question are such violent, racist, infants with god-complexes and guns ... why wasn't the rest of her group beaten and arrested, too?  Could it be that they complied?  They didn't mouth off, they didn't leave the scene, they didn't fight back?

Everyone saying "She didn't deserve to get beaten over a curfew violation" is, at best, being disingenuous and at worst, knowingly trolling and making the discussion worse.  She did NOT get beaten for breaking curfew.  She did NOT get beaten for walking away.  She got beaten for resisting arrest.  The immediate cause of her bruises and scuffs was the resisting.

As stated in my first paragraph, if curfew was the reason for beating kids, then her entire group (or at least the other young woman that was with them (if you believe the cops were just out to beat people who are smaller than them) would be beaten as well.  But no, those kids made the best decision when presented with the "We're breaking curfew and the cops caught us."  They shut their mouths, listened to the police (who didn't even need to get out of their car at that point) and followed instructions.  She started the chain of events that lead to her ending up in the hospital and managed to escalate the situation with every poor decision she made after contact.  If she stops from the beginning, she gets off with nothing, like her friends.  She stops when walking away, the cops get upset, but she doesn't get tackled (scrapes on elbows, hands, and knees).  She doesn't resist after being tackled, she doesn't get throat and rib damage (choke holds and knees/kicks to the ribs to take the wind out of the subject and force compliance).  Again, at EVERY stage, SHE is the active decision maker that escalates the interaction to the next level.

It's unfortunate that she got scuffed up, it really is, but she has no one to blame but herself and her poor decision making skills.
 
2014-07-17 03:58:26 PM  

SubBass49: redmid17: More cops get killed by car accidents than get shot.

Probably because they're extra careful...you know, to avoid getting shot.  Kind of what we're talking about here, right?  Try to pay attention.


2013 was the safest year for cops since the 1950s. Assaults and murders have gone way down, especially over the last 20 years. They don't need to avoid being shot. People aren't out to kill cops like it's going out of style.

An aggressive adversarial stance on every single interaction they have with the populace is pants on head retarded.
 
2014-07-17 03:58:29 PM  

redmid17: Click Click D'oh: redmid17: They are just usually hammered drunk, attacked someone, or gave the cops a legitimate reason to use lots of force.

Or, they landed wrong on pavement being tackled at the end of a pursuit and no other force was used at all.  Because pavement hurts,  Since we don't know the actual extent of this persons injuries, it seems a bit premature to assume excessive force was used.

Other than the witness talking about hair pulling, kicking and punching...


Those are all consistent with someone being restrained while resisting.  Those are also reported by witnesses with a very vested interest in making themselves seem the victims and police the bad guys.
 
2014-07-17 03:58:30 PM  

redmid17: Click Click D'oh: redmid17: They are just usually hammered drunk, attacked someone, or gave the cops a legitimate reason to use lots of force.

Or, they landed wrong on pavement being tackled at the end of a pursuit and no other force was used at all.  Because pavement hurts,  Since we don't know the actual extent of this persons injuries, it seems a bit premature to assume excessive force was used.

Other than the witness talking about hair pulling, kicking and punching...


The injuries listed as justification for hospitalization are consistent with a hard tackle and applying weight to someone to force compliance.  I see nothing that would be indicative of punching, hair pulling, and kicking.  Not saying it didn't happen...maybe she has all sorts of huge punch & kick bruises under that blanket.
 
2014-07-17 03:59:10 PM  

SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: jshine: SubBass49: Lots of internet tough-guy Monday-morning QB's that like to dissect their every move in an adrenaline-and-stress filled situation.

How many steroids would you have to take such that stopping a 17 year-old cheerleader for a curfew violation creates an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" in your mind?

Funny...I seem to remember that it was a GROUP that was stopped.  Oh, and last time I checked, even weak little girls could use weapons.  A cop has to be on guard 100% all the time.  It's why they often have one hand on their holster as they approach your car during a traffic stop...even if you're a 98 pound weakling, or god-forbid, a GIRL.


...so, your conception of being a cop is that every moment is an "adrenaline and stress filled situation" then -- since, presumably someone could shoot at you anywhere, at any time, for any reason?

Technically I suppose that's not wrong, but someone who is living in constant fear is probably too highly-strung to being a police officer.  Sooner or later they will snap and beat the living shiat out of a random person for no reason (or worse).

I know a cop personally.  While I find him to be a bit of a scumbag, we've talked about the adrenaline rush and the time that it takes for the adrenaline to leave your system.  Also talked about the long-term health effects of such elevated adrenaline levels.  You have to be 100% "on" every minute while you wear your uniform.  You don't know the person in front of you from anyone else under the sun, and it only takes a split second for them to attack you...in many cases they're dealing with mental health or drug issues (or a lovely combo of the two).  They could be wanted fugitives with warrants out.  They could also be a 4.0 honor roll valedictorian.  As a cop, you don't know either way, so in order to come home at the end of the night without a tag on your toe, you assume the worst.

Surprised someone with seemingly reasonable levels of intelligenc ...



Yes, I understand it, but I also understand that I don't want someone being handed a gun and a badge and then spending every moment of his/her shift suffering from paranoia and walking through my neighborhood.  It's a dangerous combination that will eventually lead to tragedy.  Sometimes the paranoia will be justified, and in those cases it might help you survive an unexpected encounter -- but eventually you're going to get it wrong and injure or kill an innocent person.  ...and, frankly, those are the people whose lives we should value the most.  Police signed up for a dangerous job and have to accept some of the risk that goes with that decision.  Most people who are just living their lives made no such calculation and shouldn't be expected to bear the consequences.
 
2014-07-17 03:59:28 PM  

tlars699: jst3p: tlars699: She didn't just start running, she was walking first, and if the police officers had just asked her to stop without leaping out of their vehicle, or jeebus, driving up to her with the lights on, she probably would have stopped and given explanation.

That is her version. How much you want to bet in the report he states that in a loud clear voice he instructed her to stop and she ignored his command?

I would say that it is possible, but "ignored" or "failed to hear"? If she reacted to his say so by running, that would be acknowledgement of his order, and resisting arrest.
If she failed to hear him and one dude caught up to her, and said, "Hey, we still need to do our report, so you can't go yet," wouldn't be nearly so scary to her, and may have ended up without her being in the hospital.


I am sure she will claim she didn't hear him. Who do you think the judge is going to believe when the cops says "In my estimation it would have been impossible that she couldn't have heard me."

I admire your conviction, you have been shown to be wrong so many times in this thread, but you keep chugging along. "I-derp-I-can-I-derp-I-can-I-derp-I-can!"
 
2014-07-17 04:00:12 PM  
s17.postimg.org
 
2014-07-17 04:00:19 PM  
cops put a 17 year old, 100lb girl, in the hospital for a curfew violation and that's ok?

pathetic on the cops and only shows poor training if this is the way they have to apprehend someone with such a size disadvantage.

all of you in support of these LEOs are awful human beings
 
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