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(National Review)   Unlike immigrant children, the immigration bill is not going to cross the border this year   (nationalreview.com) divider line 253
    More: Obvious  
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450 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jul 2014 at 9:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-16 08:51:58 AM  
Representative Paul Ryan (R., Wis.,) has given up on passing legislation to overhaul the current immigration system because the border crisis has poisoned the political atmosphere for such an effort, at least for this year.

"It has poisoned it now, that's for sure," Ryan told National Review Online, saying he didn't know if the legislative debate would be feasible next year. "For this session, I believe that's right."


Yes, because nothing says "do nothing" like a crisis?

Look, nothing against Ryan here in this particular case, but the GOP double standard here is astounding.  They'll ball up their little firsts and cry and scream for Obama to wave his magic dictatorial wand and "fix it" like it was so simple, but then refuse to take on the issue themselves when they have the chance and it's their farking job?  Please.
 
2014-07-16 09:36:55 AM  
Does this mean Republicans will STFU and stop squealing about it?

/Yeah... that's what I thought
//FOAD you worthless disingenuous sh*tstains
 
2014-07-16 09:37:04 AM  
well, i wouldn't let it worry you, GOP. i mean it's not like hispanics are a growing demographic anyway.
 
2014-07-16 09:38:38 AM  
Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.
 
2014-07-16 09:50:32 AM  

oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.


Statue of Liberty surrenders?
 
2014-07-16 09:53:45 AM  

Chris Ween: oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.

Statue of Liberty surrenders?


no, she's not southern.
 
2014-07-16 09:54:09 AM  
Isn't there a difference between an immigrant and a refuge?
 
2014-07-16 09:55:19 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-16 09:58:08 AM  
We badly need immigration reform but for the wrong reason Ryan is right in this case. This current
"crisis" fuels the bullshiat "throw billions at border security first" crowd.

That is disingenuous pandering. Real immigration reform has nothing to do with border security. It has to do with finding a humane way of making the millions of undocumented people here no longer criminals.
 
2014-07-16 09:58:54 AM  

Chris Ween: oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.

Statue of Liberty surrenders?


The difference is the people were coming in the country overtly and being processed (some were quarantined due to diseases, etc.).  The flood across the southern border is people coming in covertly with no regard for this countries laws.

I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.
 
2014-07-16 10:00:26 AM  
No, the fear of repeating THIS guy's fate is why we can't have an immigration bill:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-16 10:11:49 AM  

dwrash: I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.


You want to deport every single person who immigrated illegally no matter what the circumstances?

So, how does it feel to separate about a million children from their parents?  (IE, illegal immigrants who have given birth in the US.  The children are automatically US citizens, and are quite likely not also dual citizens of their parents' home country.)

The world isn't as black and white as that.
 
2014-07-16 10:12:43 AM  

Diogenes: the GOP double standard here is astounding.  They'll ball up their little firsts and cry and scream for Obama to wave his magic dictatorial wand and "fix it" like it was so simple, but then refuse to take on the issue themselves when they have the chance


Why won't he just lead?
 
2014-07-16 10:16:18 AM  

DeaH: Isn't there a difference between an immigrant and a refuge?


While both nouns, one refers to a person and the other refers to a place.
 
2014-07-16 10:16:39 AM  

dwrash: Chris Ween: oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.

Statue of Liberty surrenders?

The difference is the people were coming in the country overtly and being processed (some were quarantined due to diseases, etc.).  The flood across the southern border is people coming in covertly with no regard for this countries laws.

I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.


The difference is that people with no skills, no money, and just looking for a better life were able to immigrate through Ellis Island.  Do you have any idea how infinitesimal the odds of someone from Mexico or Guatemala with no skills getting a green card today are?  Or how much time and money you have to spend to get one?
 
2014-07-16 10:18:36 AM  

Wyalt Derp: Diogenes: the GOP double standard here is astounding.  They'll ball up their little firsts and cry and scream for Obama to wave his magic dictatorial wand and "fix it" like it was so simple, but then refuse to take on the issue themselves when they have the chance

Why won't he just lead?


You think Obama cares about leading? shiat, he's just a power-hungry-empty-suit-commie-mom-pants-dictator. He'll just bust out his pen and phone.

I hope this immigration thing helps knock a few points off the 'pubs chances this fall.
 
2014-07-16 10:18:40 AM  
Thread is done in one.
 
2014-07-16 10:19:30 AM  

DeaH: Isn't there a difference between an immigrant and a refuge?


You aren't even worth a lmgtfy.
 
2014-07-16 10:21:21 AM  
The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate is about 20 years long.

Given that, of course Jose' the bricklayer and Maria the housecleaner are going to sneak in, and bring their kids when they can.

I know several such families in my neighborhood.

They work.  They're nice folks. Their English stinks.  Their kids go to school with my kids.  Some of the kids are citizens and some aren't.  The kids' English is fine.  They're pretty good kids.  One was in the Cub Scout pack I lead.

Why is any of this a damn problem?
 
2014-07-16 10:22:34 AM  

BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate is about 20 years long.

Given that, of course Jose' the bricklayer and Maria the housecleaner are going to sneak in, and bring their kids when they can.

I know several such families in my neighborhood.

They work.  They're nice folks. Their English stinks.  Their kids go to school with my kids.  Some of the kids are citizens and some aren't.  The kids' English is fine.  They're pretty good kids.  One was in the Cub Scout pack I lead.

Why is any of this a damn problem?


Because they are brown.
 
2014-07-16 10:23:09 AM  

Diogenes: Representative Paul Ryan (R., Wis.,) has given up on passing legislation to overhaul the current immigration system because the border crisis has poisoned the political atmosphere for such an effort, at least for this year.

"It has poisoned it now, that's for sure," Ryan told National Review Online, saying he didn't know if the legislative debate would be feasible next year. "For this session, I believe that's right."

Yes, because nothing says "do nothing" like a crisis?

Look, nothing against Ryan here in this particular case, but the GOP double standard here is astounding.  They'll ball up their little firsts and cry and scream for Obama to wave his magic dictatorial wand and "fix it" like it was so simple, but then refuse to take on the issue themselves when they have the chance and it's their farking job?  Please.


WHY WON'T OBAMA JUST LEAD?!?!?
 
2014-07-16 10:25:10 AM  

Geotpf: dwrash: I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

You want to deport every single person who immigrated illegally no matter what the circumstances?

So, how does it feel to separate about a million children from their parents?  (IE, illegal immigrants who have given birth in the US.  The children are automatically US citizens, and are quite likely not also dual citizens of their parents' home country.)

The world isn't as black and white as that.


But it needs to be in this circumstances... other wise the flood will never stop because people will still run the border thinking that eventually their situation will be legal.
 
2014-07-16 10:27:03 AM  
"It has poisoned it now, that's for sure," Ryan told National Review Online, saying he didn't know if the legislative debate would be feasible next year. "For this session, I believe that's right."

Let me translate that for you: Republicans are unwilling to fix a problem because the problem exists.  If the problem didn't exist, why then they'd be more than happy to fix it!

i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-16 10:28:18 AM  

BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate is about 20 years long.

Given that, of course Jose' the bricklayer and Maria the housecleaner are going to sneak in, and bring their kids when they can.

I know several such families in my neighborhood.

They work.  They're nice folks. Their English stinks.  Their kids go to school with my kids.  Some of the kids are citizens and some aren't.  The kids' English is fine.  They're pretty good kids.  One was in the Cub Scout pack I lead.

Why is any of this a damn problem?


Culturally assimilating an ever increasing stream of peasants can be exhausting. And yes, they should make immigration streamlined, cheaper and faster. Maybe we can have some Latinos work the paperwork. The system as it is is untenable.
 
2014-07-16 10:28:39 AM  
"I'd have people earn their way toward
just a work permit by putting them on probation. They'd waive their right an appeal..."


Step 1 of Paul Ryan's Plan For Dealign With Illegal Immigration: Force them to sign away their Constitutional rights.
 
2014-07-16 10:29:10 AM  

Geotpf: dwrash: I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

You want to deport every single person who immigrated illegally no matter what the circumstances?

So, how does it feel to separate about a million children from their parents?  (IE, illegal immigrants who have given birth in the US.  The children are automatically US citizens, and are quite likely not also dual citizens of their parents' home country.)

The world isn't as black and white as that.


Are you saying that we cannot deport these people because other countries actually enforce their immigration laws?
 
2014-07-16 10:30:44 AM  

Cletus C.: We badly need immigration reform but for the wrong reason Ryan is right in this case. This current
"crisis" fuels the bullshiat "throw billions at border security first" crowd.

That is disingenuous pandering. Real immigration reform has nothing to do with border security. It has to do with finding a humane way of making the millions of undocumented people here no longer criminals.


...make them helots?
 
2014-07-16 10:31:32 AM  
Honestly, the current immigration bill that passed the Senate is sh*t. They need a new one written up.
 
2014-07-16 10:31:43 AM  

dwrash: But it needs to be in this circumstances... other wise the flood will never stop because people will still run the border thinking that eventually their situation will be legal.


People don't flood across the border because they think that one day they'd eventually be legalized.  They flood across the border because their lives today in the US would be better than their lives wherever they came from.
 
2014-07-16 10:31:45 AM  

BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate from Mexico is about 20 years long.


From countries which contain mostly white people (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of Europe) there is no waiting list.
 
2014-07-16 10:32:29 AM  
Heaven forbid we accomplish anything during an election year. It's almost as if that's a selling point.
 
2014-07-16 10:34:41 AM  

Lord_Baull: Heaven forbid we accomplish anything during an election year. It's almost as if that's a selling point.


It's not like the Republicans in Congress do anything in non-election years, either.
 
2014-07-16 10:35:20 AM  
It's like they'd rather avoid pissing off any voters rather than inspire others to vote.
 
2014-07-16 10:37:31 AM  

Diogenes: DeaH: Isn't there a difference between an immigrant and a refuge?

While both nouns, one refers to a person and the other refers to a place.


My spelling has been horrendous this morning. Refugee. These children are refugees.
 
2014-07-16 10:37:39 AM  

Saiga410: Geotpf: dwrash: I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

You want to deport every single person who immigrated illegally no matter what the circumstances?

So, how does it feel to separate about a million children from their parents?  (IE, illegal immigrants who have given birth in the US.  The children are automatically US citizens, and are quite likely not also dual citizens of their parents' home country.)

The world isn't as black and white as that.

Are you saying that we cannot deport these people because other countries actually enforce their immigration laws?


I'm merely saying if you want to deport these people, you will be literally taking a million minor children from their parents (you can't deport the kids as they are American citizens).  If you are okay with that, then, well, fark you.  What other countries do is irrelevant to this discussion.
 
2014-07-16 10:38:49 AM  

max_pooper: BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate is about 20 years long.

Given that, of course Jose' the bricklayer and Maria the housecleaner are going to sneak in, and bring their kids when they can.

I know several such families in my neighborhood.

They work.  They're nice folks. Their English stinks.  Their kids go to school with my kids.  Some of the kids are citizens and some aren't.  The kids' English is fine.  They're pretty good kids.  One was in the Cub Scout pack I lead.

Why is any of this a damn problem?

Because they are brown.


And might vote Democratic
 
2014-07-16 10:39:08 AM  

Geotpf: BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate from Mexico is about 20 years long.

From countries which contain mostly white people (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of Europe) there is no waiting list.


Most of those countries have a real big problem with letting brown people move in.
 
2014-07-16 10:39:51 AM  

DeaH: Isn't there a difference between an immigrant and a refuge?


Bob Dylan pities the poor immigrant.

There's at least a 3000 year history of not knowing what to do with refugees, and most times picking a sad solution. It's one of the most difficult community challenges.
 
2014-07-16 10:40:13 AM  

Karac: dwrash: Chris Ween: oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.

Statue of Liberty surrenders?

The difference is the people were coming in the country overtly and being processed (some were quarantined due to diseases, etc.).  The flood across the southern border is people coming in covertly with no regard for this countries laws.

I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

The difference is that people with no skills, no money, and just looking for a better life were able to immigrate through Ellis Island.  Do you have any idea how infinitesimal the odds of someone from Mexico or Guatemala with no skills getting a green card today are?  Or how much time and money you have to spend to get one?


They didn't have ID either. Nothing. They just showed up. No papers from their country. Nothing.
 
2014-07-16 10:40:33 AM  

Geotpf: Saiga410: Geotpf: dwrash: I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

You want to deport every single person who immigrated illegally no matter what the circumstances?

So, how does it feel to separate about a million children from their parents?  (IE, illegal immigrants who have given birth in the US.  The children are automatically US citizens, and are quite likely not also dual citizens of their parents' home country.)

The world isn't as black and white as that.

Are you saying that we cannot deport these people because other countries actually enforce their immigration laws?

I'm merely saying if you want to deport these people, you will be literally taking a million minor children from their parents (you can't deport the kids as they are American citizens).  If you are okay with that, then, well, fark you.  What other countries do is irrelevant to this discussion.


You are working under the assumption that the parental units will not take their kids with them.  It's their call.
 
2014-07-16 10:41:21 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Honestly, the current immigration bill that passed the Senate is sh*t. They need a new one written up.


Go on.

Should it be a huge comprehensive bill that the speaker will refuse to look at because it is huge and comprehensive, or a piecemeal set of bills addressing one aspect/issue at a time that the house will refuse to look at while claiming they want a comprehensive bill?

Should it have a shiatload more security so republicans can insist it costs too much and/or needs to be offset by killing pbs and snap, or skip that so republicans can claim security needs to be addressed before anything else?

Can we pass this new bill now, or will republicans refuse on the grounds that 'obama cannot be trusted to follow the law anyways, so fark it'?

Should I go on?
 
2014-07-16 10:42:53 AM  

Geotpf: BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate from Mexico is about 20 years long.

From countries which contain mostly white people (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of Europe) there is no waiting list.


Pretty much.  Because the numbers wanting to immigrate are low, and those mostly have family connections, special skills or money.
 
2014-07-16 10:43:36 AM  
So, for those worried that the Republicans could take the Senate in the next election as long as they can avoid screwing up their image for a few months........

They are taking an international humanitarian crisis (caused by Republican legislation) and refusing to address it, for political reasons.

What are they doing then? They have decided to waste ridiculous amounts of man-hours and money to pursue suing Obama (Mainstream Rs) or impeaching him (Tea partiers) both of which have zero chance of doing ANYTHING.

Worse that that, they think that attacking a President who has got us out of 2 unpopular wars, and has overseen the largest sustained economic growth in this country since Clinton was Prez (giving us record breaking stock market highs, massive deficit reduction, and ridiculous drops in unemployment) is going to endear them to the general population.
 
2014-07-16 10:45:11 AM  

Saiga410: Geotpf: Saiga410: Geotpf: dwrash: I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

You want to deport every single person who immigrated illegally no matter what the circumstances?

So, how does it feel to separate about a million children from their parents?  (IE, illegal immigrants who have given birth in the US.  The children are automatically US citizens, and are quite likely not also dual citizens of their parents' home country.)

The world isn't as black and white as that.

Are you saying that we cannot deport these people because other countries actually enforce their immigration laws?

I'm merely saying if you want to deport these people, you will be literally taking a million minor children from their parents (you can't deport the kids as they are American citizens).  If you are okay with that, then, well, fark you.  What other countries do is irrelevant to this discussion.

You are working under the assumption that the parental units will not take their kids with them.  It's their call.


1. The kids quite possibly can't legally go to their parents country of origin; they are likely not citizens there.

2. The parents will probably leave them here since their country of origin sucks ass which is why they immigrated in the first place.  Not sure how adding a million kids to the foster care system saves the government any money (or is good for the kids).
 
2014-07-16 10:45:45 AM  

dwrash: Chris Ween: oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.

Statue of Liberty surrenders?

The difference is the people were coming in the country overtly and being processed (some were quarantined due to diseases, etc.).  The flood across the southern border is people coming in covertly with no regard for this countries laws.

I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.


I don't know much about immigration law, but I don't think people who walk up to border control agents and tell them they are seeking asylum are doing anything illegal.

You realize that is mostly what's going on here, don't you?
 
2014-07-16 10:45:51 AM  

Smackledorfer: Nadie_AZ: Honestly, the current immigration bill that passed the Senate is sh*t. They need a new one written up.

Go on.

Should it be a huge comprehensive bill that the speaker will refuse to look at because it is huge and comprehensive, or a piecemeal set of bills addressing one aspect/issue at a time that the house will refuse to look at while claiming they want a comprehensive bill?

Should it have a shiatload more security so republicans can insist it costs too much and/or needs to be offset by killing pbs and snap, or skip that so republicans can claim security needs to be addressed before anything else?

Can we pass this new bill now, or will republicans refuse on the grounds that 'obama cannot be trusted to follow the law anyways, so fark it'?

Should I go on?


Are you kidding? I have no faith in the GOP's ability to pass gas right now.
 
2014-07-16 10:47:44 AM  

BFletch651: Geotpf: BFletch651: The reason we have illegal immigration is because legal immigration is so hard.

Without family connections, special skills or money the waiting list to immigrate from Mexico is about 20 years long.

From countries which contain mostly white people (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of Europe) there is no waiting list.

Pretty much.  Because the numbers wanting to immigrate are low, and those mostly have family connections, special skills or money.


Right.  There is a fairly low number of unrestricted immigrants allowed per country.  I say eliminate the per country requirement and replace it with a less racist total worldwide number (much higher than the per country number).  Of course, that means that white people will have trouble immigrating to the US (most slots would be taken by Mexicans or Central Americans), and we can't have that now can we?
 
2014-07-16 10:50:12 AM  
Unlike ILLEGAL immigrant children, the immigration bill is not going to cross the border this year

FTFY
 
2014-07-16 10:50:52 AM  
The poem on the statue of liberty is not decided law. And it made sense in the 1880s when the US population was 50,000,000 and workers could be exploited in sweatshops. Not so much today.

The situartion now is nothing less than child trafficking, something that we hear a lot of chest pounding abouts. Oh, and besides the actual trafficking, the kids get raped and abused by the coyotes. And then sent to FEMA camps where the border patrol can be child care workers instead of border patrol agents.

We need to repeal the Bush era law that allows any non-Mexican coming across the southern border to just stay.

Obama asks for 4 billion for childcare for these non-citizens. Because we care and no human is illegal. But for once, Jesse Jackson has a point. How about 4 billion for the poors of Chicago to get daycare and other services so they don't grow up to just shoot each other.

Shame on you Paul Ryan. We will do nothing bexcause the crisis is poisoning the debate. WTF.
 
2014-07-16 10:52:05 AM  

Karac: dwrash: Chris Ween: oldernell: Someone needs to start a white house petition to take that sign off the Statue of Liberty.  And send the statue back to France.

Statue of Liberty surrenders?

The difference is the people were coming in the country overtly and being processed (some were quarantined due to diseases, etc.).  The flood across the southern border is people coming in covertly with no regard for this countries laws.

I'm all for relaxing and upping the quotas for our immigration laws.. but on the flip side, anyone who broke the laws and are currently in this country  should be sent back to their country of origin (children included) and barred from ever obtaining citizenship in this country.   We need to set the precedent that we welcome immigration... but we welcome it when it is done legally.

The difference is that people with no skills, no money, and just looking for a better life were able to immigrate through Ellis Island.  Do you have any idea how infinitesimal the odds of someone from Mexico or Guatemala with no skills getting a green card today are?  Or how much time and money you have to spend to get one?


Well, the chance of being killed during immigration is a lot less if done legally.  Also, the process needs an overhaul like the tax code does.  A top down process.  Amnesty is not the long term answer.  Everyone knows the answer....stop the illegal immigration (border control), amnesty-ish answer for those here already, and reform the immigration to allow for a 1 year process.  Either you get in or don't, but you don't have to spend 10 years doing it.
 
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