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(CNN)   Dutch responsible for Bosnian massacre of Serbs in 1995   ( cnn.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Srebrenica, Bosnian War, Bosnian Serbs, Dutch, Srebrenica massacre, Bosnian Muslims, air support, cause of death  
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5550 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2014 at 10:29 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-16 09:12:34 AM  
So when do the Dutch sue the UN?  If they're smart the Netherlands are going to argue that their troops were under UN command, and UN ROEs.  Since the Serbs weren't shooting at them, I'm guessing that they weren't allowed to do anything to physically stop them.
 
2014-07-16 09:15:27 AM  

devildog123: So when do the Dutch sue the UN?  If they're smart the Netherlands are going to argue that their troops were under UN command, and UN ROEs.  Since the Serbs weren't shooting at them, I'm guessing that they weren't allowed to do anything to physically stop them.


weren't they also the ones who had their hands tied in Rwanda too?
 
2014-07-16 09:16:26 AM  
They're also responsible for the Tenerife airport disaster.
 
2014-07-16 09:18:49 AM  
Dutch are scum.
 
2014-07-16 09:32:19 AM  

somedude210: devildog123: So when do the Dutch sue the UN?  If they're smart the Netherlands are going to argue that their troops were under UN command, and UN ROEs.  Since the Serbs weren't shooting at them, I'm guessing that they weren't allowed to do anything to physically stop them.

weren't they also the ones who had their hands tied in Rwanda too?


That was the Canadians.
 
2014-07-16 09:33:09 AM  

devildog123: That was the Canadians.


was it? Oh I thought it was either the Dutch or the Belgians that were running the Peacekeepers
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-16 10:20:25 AM  
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who massacre other cultures, and... I guess that's only one thing.
 
2014-07-16 10:24:52 AM  

somedude210: devildog123: That was the Canadians.

was it? Oh I thought it was either the Dutch or the Belgians that were running the Peacekeepers


There were some Belgians, but the overall commander was Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, It wasn't really his fault.  The Belgians withdrew as soon as the shiat hit the fan, (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE) and he was left with less than 300 men.  When he asked for reinforcements, he was told to pound sand.  Even with the shiatty ROEs, he saved quite a few lives.
 
2014-07-16 10:28:36 AM  

devildog123: There were some Belgians, but the overall commander was Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, It wasn't really his fault. The Belgians withdrew as soon as the shiat hit the fan, (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE) and he was left with less than 300 men. When he asked for reinforcements, he was told to pound sand. Even with the shiatty ROEs, he saved quite a few lives.


gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. :D
 
2014-07-16 10:30:49 AM  
i40.photobucket.com

/approves
 
2014-07-16 10:31:23 AM  
Duh?
 
2014-07-16 10:32:32 AM  
Dutch ate my baby.
 
2014-07-16 10:35:17 AM  
The Dutch had little or no air support. They couldn't respond to artillery and they couldn't break up the massing forces outside of town.

The local Islamic and other militia groups didn't help matters for the Dutch either.

I figured there were two things the Dutch could have done.

1. gather all civilians and march out and away from the massing troops before the town fell and keep moving till you find serious UN protection. if it's so dangerous you have to move to another camp, you might as well keep going until you find serious help.

2. bayonet charge
 
2014-07-16 10:36:06 AM  
www.worddesign.biz
Suspected all along
 
2014-07-16 10:36:12 AM  
img.fark.net
We know one person who didn't see this coming
 
2014-07-16 10:38:20 AM  

devildog123: somedude210: devildog123: That was the Canadians.

was it? Oh I thought it was either the Dutch or the Belgians that were running the Peacekeepers

There were some Belgians, but the overall commander was Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, It wasn't really his fault.  The Belgians withdrew as soon as the shiat hit the fan, (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE) and he was left with less than 300 men.  When he asked for reinforcements, he was told to pound sand.  Even with the shiatty ROEs, he saved quite a few lives.


The really Sh*tty thing about that was that the belgians actually sent a few hundred troops to take the airport and get there troops on the ground OUT, they could have helped but choose not to
 
mhd
2014-07-16 10:41:25 AM  
i.imgur.com
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
 
2014-07-16 10:42:37 AM  
Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?
 
2014-07-16 10:42:40 AM  
The mid-90s was not humanities finest hour.

These days..........
 
2014-07-16 10:43:39 AM  

Gunny Highway: The mid-90s was not humanities finest hour.

These days..........


Nor is this post my finest effort. Sheesh.
 
2014-07-16 10:43:48 AM  
 
2014-07-16 10:49:56 AM  
Here's a BBC documentary on the massacre. 1 hour and 45 mins.

NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fliw801iX84

NSFW
 
2014-07-16 10:53:52 AM  

albatros183: devildog123: somedude210: devildog123: That was the Canadians.

was it? Oh I thought it was either the Dutch or the Belgians that were running the Peacekeepers

There were some Belgians, but the overall commander was Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, It wasn't really his fault.  The Belgians withdrew as soon as the shiat hit the fan, (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE) and he was left with less than 300 men.  When he asked for reinforcements, he was told to pound sand.  Even with the shiatty ROEs, he saved quite a few lives.

The really Sh*tty thing about that was that the belgians actually sent a few hundred troops to take the airport and get there troops on the ground OUT, they could have helped but choose not to


This was only a year or two after The Battle of Mogadishu, and the Belgians didn't want anything like that of their own.  Plus, they're a tiny country, with very limited military resources and political clout.  They don't have the ability to tell the UN to go fark itself the way the US, Russia, or China would.
 
2014-07-16 10:54:45 AM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: The Dutch had little or no air support. They couldn't respond to artillery and they couldn't break up the massing forces outside of town.



The Dutch government decided which units they would send on the peacekeeping mission.  They should have sent one with more firepower.
 
2014-07-16 10:56:00 AM  

JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?


yeah, I noticed that too.

The Serbs were responsible--the Dutch were complicit.
 
2014-07-16 10:56:04 AM  
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
 
2014-07-16 10:56:48 AM  
The court ruled that the Dutch state should compensate the wives and children of the adult men who were killed and the parents of the boys who died.

They are going to bill all the peacekeepers individually.
 
2014-07-16 10:58:36 AM  
Dutch responsible liable for Bosnian Serbian massacre of Serbs 300 out of 8000 Bosnian Muslims in 1995
 
2014-07-16 10:58:57 AM  

devildog123: somedude210: devildog123: So when do the Dutch sue the UN?  If they're smart the Netherlands are going to argue that their troops were under UN command, and UN ROEs.  Since the Serbs weren't shooting at them, I'm guessing that they weren't allowed to do anything to physically stop them.

weren't they also the ones who had their hands tied in Rwanda too?

That was the Canadians.


I am pretty sure there was a Canadian gerneral that headed up the NATO operation.  He headed up an international force and was woefully under funded.

I have yet to read his book but I did hear it discussed in a lecture on the subject and boy was it powerful.

img.fark.net
 
2014-07-16 11:01:14 AM  
www.worddesign.biz
people who intolerant of other cultures and the dutch
 
2014-07-16 11:02:34 AM  

JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?


Theoretically you might parse the sentence to mean the massacre conducted by Serbs in Bosnia, but it's definitely horribly misleading.
 
2014-07-16 11:05:29 AM  
simpsonswiki.com

Damn Dutchmen!
 
2014-07-16 11:05:29 AM  

Gunny Highway: devildog123: somedude210: devildog123: So when do the Dutch sue the UN?  If they're smart the Netherlands are going to argue that their troops were under UN command, and UN ROEs.  Since the Serbs weren't shooting at them, I'm guessing that they weren't allowed to do anything to physically stop them.

weren't they also the ones who had their hands tied in Rwanda too?

That was the Canadians.

I am pretty sure there was a Canadian gerneral that headed up the NATO operation.  He headed up an international force and was woefully under funded.

I have yet to read his book but I did hear it discussed in a lecture on the subject and boy was it powerful.

[img.fark.net image 233x346]


It was a UN, not NATO operation.  NATO ROEs would probably have kept those Belgian Commandos alive.
 
2014-07-16 11:09:15 AM  

Arkanaut: JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?

Theoretically you might parse the sentence to mean the massacre conducted by Serbs in Bosnia, but it's definitely horribly misleading.


Subby must be Serbian. Lot of denial over there.

devildog123: somedude210: devildog123: That was the Canadians.

was it? Oh I thought it was either the Dutch or the Belgians that were running the Peacekeepers

There were some Belgians, but the overall commander was Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, It wasn't really his fault.  The Belgians withdrew as soon as the shiat hit the fan, (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE) and he was left with less than 300 men.  When he asked for reinforcements, he was told to pound sand.  Even with the shiatty ROEs, he saved quite a few lives.


I thought the UN had a policy against having the former colonial power doing tours in the former colony?
 
2014-07-16 11:11:14 AM  
I guess the moral between the Haitians suing the UN and the Bosnians suing the Dutch is don't try to help people in shiatty countries, they will just take advantage of your advanced civilization any way they can. Just like a bum suing the millionaire who gave him a meal but steak was overdone, poor countries are shifty grifters looking for any payout they can find. Sure, not every bum is looking for a payout, but you just shouldn't take that kind of risk.
 
2014-07-16 11:11:36 AM  

chubby muppet: [www.worddesign.biz image 329x226]
Suspected all along


"There are two kinds of people I can't stand: people that commit genocide, and the Dutch!"
 
2014-07-16 11:16:05 AM  

devildog123: It was a UN, not NATO operation. NATO ROEs would probably have kept those Belgian Commandos alive.


Okay, cool. Was the Canadian military sent there and had their "hands tied" or was it just a Canadian general that was sent there to oversee the UN mission.  I know there were troops from all over but I wasnt sure of the hierarchy of power.
 
2014-07-16 11:17:57 AM  

JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?


Yes, subby is obviously lacking basic reading comprehension and/or ignorant of the conflict.
 
2014-07-16 11:21:47 AM  

Paris1127: Arkanaut: JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?

Theoretically you might parse the sentence to mean the massacre conducted by Serbs in Bosnia, but it's definitely horribly misleading.


Subby must be Serbian. Lot of denial over there.


Even if subby is a Serbian Nationalist, I would have thought they would just denied it ever happened, like most Neo-Nazis do with the Holocaust, while maintaining that the victims totally had it coming. I have yet to see a Neo-Nazi claim something like the Jews were the ones killing the Germans at Auschwitz.

Although there was that one time that Bill O'Reilly claimed that American soldiers killed German POWs at Malmedy, when it was the Germans who massacred American POWs. (He was trying to justify waterboarding, IIRC.)
 
2014-07-16 11:23:19 AM  
Ah, those fun Bosnian Serbs! Just a barrel of laughs for over a hundred years!
 
2014-07-16 11:25:18 AM  

devildog123: (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE)


Uhhhhhhh...

The UN really needs to rethink things.
 
2014-07-16 11:26:37 AM  

JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?


Yes, it should be fixed. It's kind of offensive.
 
2014-07-16 11:31:16 AM  

devildog123: So when do the Dutch sue the UN?  If they're smart the Netherlands are going to argue that their troops were under UN command, and UN ROEs.  Since the Serbs weren't shooting at them, I'm guessing that they weren't allowed to do anything to physically stop them.


The Danish troops had no problem under UN command in Gorazde.

It wasn't a UN problem, it was a Dutch problem.
 
2014-07-16 11:34:18 AM  

JK47: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: The Dutch had little or no air support. They couldn't respond to artillery and they couldn't break up the massing forces outside of town.


The Dutch government decided which units they would send on the peacekeeping mission.  They should have sent one with more firepower.


Like tanks and shiat.

The Danish army had several Leopard 2 tanks, and even an AA missile system. And that turned out to be the difference, as the Serbs did infact try to pull the same shiat at Gorazde.
 
2014-07-16 11:34:46 AM  

Vantango84: JK47: Shouldn't the headline be that the Dutch were responsible for the Serbian massacre of Bosnian muslims?

Yes, it should be fixed. It's kind of offensive.


yes!  Who knows how many thin-skinned Bosnians are lurking about and who also can't distinguish between an honest, ignorant mistake and an intentional insult
 
2014-07-16 11:35:34 AM  

BigNumber12: devildog123: (they had 10 men murdered after they surrendered after taking fire for two hours, and not shooting back because of their ROE)

Uhhhhhhh...

The UN really needs to rethink things.


I was thinking the sane thing. What the fark is that all about? Surprising the soldiers didn't just say "fark it" and start shooting back. I'd rather risk court martial and prison over an almost certain death.
 
2014-07-16 11:35:44 AM  
The way I remember things (from the news over the years, I was about 10 at the time), the Dutchbatters were send to an untenable position with crappy RoE, a serious lack of heavy gear and a failing support structure. It was basically we try shooting and lose after which shiat will still happen or we hope for the best after discussing the surrender.

And that is why we can't have nice things. You try and help people and all they do is whine if things don't work out.
 
2014-07-16 11:36:47 AM  
I'm shocked, shocked, that the Dutch couldn't handle the Serbs.

At the end of WWII most Euro men were de-balled.  The people in the Balkans are some of the last Europeans who will put their AK-47s where their mouths are.   Sending the Dutch to deal with the Serbs was like sending the Boy Scouts to root out the SS.  It's a UN failure, the Dutch are just convenient scapegoats.
 
2014-07-16 11:38:52 AM  
Granted, there are other factors to consider, but ultimately shouldn't it be the Serbians who are responsible? They took the people and killed them. The Dutch didn't do enough to stop it, but isn't that a bit different from being as directly responsible as the headline suggests?
 
2014-07-16 11:39:34 AM  

nekom: They're also responsible for the Tenerife airport disaster.


When the CEO of KLM heard about that disaster, he ordered the company to get their best pilot down there. He was later informed he was already all over the scene.
 
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