If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   That giant sucking sound you hear is Texas water going south. They took our dihydrogen monoxide   (nbcnews.com) divider line 210
    More: Sad  
•       •       •

13092 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2014 at 8:04 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



210 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-07-15 05:12:34 PM
The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

Yes, the story is about farming, but damn we waste a lot of water in other ways.
 
2014-07-15 05:43:14 PM

Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.


The bottled water market is a drop in the bucket compared to the demand coming from cities in the southwest.  Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.
 
2014-07-15 05:49:23 PM
Fort Hood shut down yesterday, because they didn't have any water.  This ain't good.
 
2014-07-15 05:52:12 PM
I know who can get some water for them...


img.fark.net
 
2014-07-15 05:53:27 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

The bottled water market is a drop in the bucket compared to the demand coming from cities in the southwest.  Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.


Not in California is doesn't.  Nestle's Arrowhead is pumping water from aquifers out in the desert, and because the land is owned by Native American tribes, there's zero oversight as to how much water they are taking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2014/07/12/nestle-ar ro whead-tapping-water/12589267/
 
2014-07-15 05:54:57 PM
The Tragedy of the Commons is a story we will play out repeatedly until we are all dead.
 
2014-07-15 06:10:29 PM
media.tumblr.com

DURKA DUR!
 
2014-07-15 06:17:12 PM

Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

Yes, the story is about farming, but damn we waste a lot of water in other ways.


Or we could encourage people to move out of the farking desert.

/just a thought.
 
2014-07-15 06:37:10 PM
The article mentioned pivot irrigation which is a HUGE waste. A lot of the (cotton) farmers on the South Plains are transitioning to underground drip systems. The water usage drops dramatically and any applications such as fertilizer or systemic pest control are done through the piping. It's not cheap by any stretch but the yields are nothing short of phenomenal. In all honesty I am not sure how this type of irrigation would work for other row crops like corn ( a big culprit) and I am pretty positive that it would not work for something like sugar beets but folks best start paying attention.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-15 06:44:32 PM
The farmers remind me of the fishermen in my area. Apparently the lobster industry used to be good at conservation, but the fish industry is all about what can be caught this trip.  And so the commercial fishing industry in New England is dead. Still twitching, but dead.
 
2014-07-15 06:53:08 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: The article mentioned pivot irrigation which is a HUGE waste.


Better than flood irrigation, that they do out here in California despite the drought.  Something like 80% of the water use in California goes to agriculture, and because the water is subsidized, its so cheap that they'd rather flood a grove of trees than use drip or other more efficient irrigation methods.  Of course, it would also help if they didn't plant water hungry plants like Almond Trees or rice as well, but that's apparently where the money is.
 
2014-07-15 07:39:24 PM
Looks like somebody's been neglecting the moisture farm again.

philosophyforchange.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-15 07:41:47 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: The article mentioned pivot irrigation which is a HUGE waste. A lot of the (cotton) farmers on the South Plains are transitioning to underground drip systems. The water usage drops dramatically and any applications such as fertilizer or systemic pest control are done through the piping. It's not cheap by any stretch but the yields are nothing short of phenomenal. In all honesty I am not sure how this type of irrigation would work for other row crops like corn ( a big culprit) and I am pretty positive that it would not work for something like sugar beets but folks best start paying attention.


It doesn't work well for corn... partly due to volume, and partly because it's much more effective on minimum and no-till crops.

Also, I know most of the people in that article, including T. Boone McClownstick. The guy from Vega is just a dirt farmer who grows as much for insurance as for forage. He has a bitty little farm.
 
2014-07-15 07:41:54 PM
Looks like they done freedomed themselves real good
 
2014-07-15 07:44:29 PM
It seems like only days ago some Farker was mocking the idea of running out of water...
 
2014-07-15 08:08:20 PM
www.betterlivingthroughbeowulf.com
Frowns on your modern dust bowl.
 
2014-07-15 08:09:00 PM
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-15 08:09:08 PM
I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.
 
2014-07-15 08:12:01 PM
Isn't the planned route of the Keystone XL pipeline right over this aquifer?
 
2014-07-15 08:12:07 PM
This sentiment is also reflected in the state's water law, based on the concept of "right to capture." In short, if you own the land, you and only you own the water.

Ah yes, that corollary of the sacred "I got mine, f*ck you." rule.
 
2014-07-15 08:15:19 PM
And yet we are sucking millions if gallons of water from the ground and injecting it back into wells for natural gas. Too bad we can't drink dollar bills.
 
2014-07-15 08:16:47 PM
"Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

― Cree Indian Prophecy
 
2014-07-15 08:20:20 PM
If only someone had pointed out decades ago that natural resources are not infinite.
 
2014-07-15 08:21:10 PM

Mentat: It seems like only days ago some Farker was mocking the idea of running out of water...


did he live in Vermont?
'cause we're good
 
2014-07-15 08:21:21 PM

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Looks like somebody's been neglecting the moisture farm again.

[philosophyforchange.files.wordpress.com image 300x400]


That kid's useless. Mouthy, too
 
2014-07-15 08:21:48 PM
"We got our faith in the Good Lord," says Schur. "He's the one who provides. He's the one who determines what we're going to make ... But, you know, he's certainly testing our patience."


Hey, maybe he did provide, and expected us to care for what he provided - as with responsible use it could last a very long time.... But then we let the proudly ignorant (and let's face it, mostly "right-wing") among us actually turn people who want to use our natural resources responsibly (and not fark up every square inch of land we can see) in to a farking slur against one another.  And let them set economic policies up which encourages irresponsible, damaging behavior.
 
2014-07-15 08:24:30 PM

KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.




Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.
 
2014-07-15 08:24:52 PM
Move where the water is.
 
2014-07-15 08:28:55 PM

vudukungfu: Mentat: It seems like only days ago some Farker was mocking the idea of running out of water...

did he live in Vermont?
'cause we're good


Colorado here, we are OK too.
 
2014-07-15 08:29:45 PM
So we have an underground version of the Aral Sea.
 
2014-07-15 08:31:05 PM

MemeSlave: Move where the water is.


Californians would rather steal it from everyone else. And if it keeps them away from me I'd call that a fair exchange.
 
2014-07-15 08:31:18 PM
That giant sucking sound you hear is Texas water going south.

Actually I don't hate Texas, but it just seemed funnier to fix the headline
 
2014-07-15 08:33:29 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Marcus Aurelius: Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

The bottled water market is a drop in the bucket compared to the demand coming from cities in the southwest.  Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.

Not in California is doesn't.  Nestle's Arrowhead is pumping water from aquifers out in the desert, and because the land is owned by Native American tribes, there's zero oversight as to how much water they are taking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2014/07/12/nestle-ar ro whead-tapping-water/12589267/


Yikes.
 
2014-07-15 08:33:30 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: "Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

― Cree Indian Prophecy


LOLOLOL.

no
 
2014-07-15 08:33:41 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Marcus Aurelius: Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

The bottled water market is a drop in the bucket compared to the demand coming from cities in the southwest.  Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.

Not in California is doesn't.  Nestle's Arrowhead is pumping water from aquifers out in the desert, and because the land is owned by Native American tribes, there's zero oversight as to how much water they are taking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2014/07/12/nestle-ar ro whead-tapping-water/12589267/


this.
 
2014-07-15 08:33:46 PM
"The American Breadbasket" sounds like a buffet where fat teabaggers stuff their pieholes with a parking lot full of Tahoes and F150s.
 
2014-07-15 08:33:55 PM

Lsherm: Or we could encourage people to move out of the farking desert.

/just a thought.


That's true for say, Las Vegas, but the people eating the food aren't just in Texas.  From a purely economic point of view, as long as it's cheaper to produce in Texas than New York, you produce in Texas.  When Texas dries up, you move on to states with more rain (maybe the Pacific Northwest?).  Of course, it may be more expensive there, and the companies that dried the plains out may not have to pay for any side effects like dust bowl conditions, except their land values dropping, but in the long run, smarter, and regulated use of the aquifer is still probably easier than moving the entire farming industry.  Yes, that may well include GMOs.
 
2014-07-15 08:34:02 PM
Ogallala is my second favorite word to repeat endlessly.

My favorite is Zoltán Kodály

We have farked this thing up completely. Salinization, over pumping, every kind of herbicide and pesticide, industrial chemicals. You name we farked it. What a country.
 
2014-07-15 08:34:48 PM
and yet the red river (northern) and the Mississippi flood almost every year... why not divert the excess to the aquifer ?
 
2014-07-15 08:36:10 PM
Here is an idea, Don't farm a farking desert!
 
2014-07-15 08:36:45 PM
so in the end they'll just have sand?

www.inpapasbasement.com
 
2014-07-15 08:40:24 PM

Raider_dad: So we have had an underground version of the Aral Sea.


FTFY.

A lot of Texas' prosperity over the last couple decades has been possible due to plentiful, nearly-free water. Which is basically gone now.

Anyone here visit Lake Travis in the last, say, half-decade or so? Not quite as horrific as Lake Mead yet, but heading there. The water level is down by almost 40 feet, and unlike previous droughts, this one isn't short-lived, it's been decreasing steadily for almost a decade, and despite fairly drastic measures, shows little hope of returning to the levels seen over the last 50 years.
 
2014-07-15 08:40:35 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.

Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.


Hey, here in San Antonio we do really well actually. I think the same amount of water as when the city was half the size, ever since they found the blind salamander we have to be gentle with our aquifer. Really.

/we are building a new desalination plant too
 
2014-07-15 08:42:13 PM
I don't want to live in that area because it rains and snows, but I want their water...

I'll gladly sell my house where there is ungodly amounts of fresh water readily available. For double what I paid. And I'm keeping the snow blower.
 
2014-07-15 08:42:51 PM
I keep saying that Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska and Texas should pool resources and build several massive desalination plants on the Gulf of Mexico and pipe in water. But, it won't happen till the Oglala is tapped out.
 
2014-07-15 08:44:39 PM

jst3p: vudukungfu: Mentat: It seems like only days ago some Farker was mocking the idea of running out of water...

did he live in Vermont?
'cause we're good

Colorado here, we are OK too.


Yeah?

http://cwcb.state.co.us/water-management/water-supply-planning/Pages/ T heWaterSupplyGap.aspx
 
2014-07-15 08:47:58 PM
Whaddaya say, Hollis?
 
2014-07-15 08:49:18 PM
Pray harder Texans.
 
2014-07-15 08:49:50 PM
Well I hope you all know that eventually all the water will drain down to Antarctica anyway.
 
2014-07-15 08:50:11 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Better than flood irrigation, that they do out here in California despite the drought.


Actually, flood irrigation is much better in many cases.  Much less loss to evaporation.  What is mostly lost via flood irrigation is through infiltration into the ground.  However, this infiltration oftentimes is a huge recharge source for aquifers.
 
2014-07-15 08:50:19 PM
Well I'll grab my spears and buckler.....

www.grey-tower.net

I will also be offering unconditional protection for any Texas residents skilled in blacksmithing who want it.
 
2014-07-15 08:55:01 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: "Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

― Cree Indian Prophecy


This
 
2014-07-15 08:56:16 PM

ScaryBottles: Well I'll grab my spears and buckler.....



I will also be offering unconditional protection for any Texas residents skilled in blacksmithing who want it.


Sooo; we're gonna turn Aiel? Fun times!
 
2014-07-15 09:00:10 PM
I've been assured by Fark Independents that the free market guarantees the best outcomes.

Why would this be any different?
 
2014-07-15 09:05:31 PM
Sadly, the world is going to have to start getting by without being fed by the U.S.  I've never been entirely convinced that trying to long-distance-support populations of billions that were otherwise unsustainable is really a good thing to do, long term.   At least China can feed themselves now, which helps. It won't hurt the U.S. economy because we've been giving the food away for free anyway.
 
2014-07-15 09:05:48 PM
Just want to point out that there is not enough hate for Texas in this thread.

/I love escaped Texans
//Let Texas bake away
///you Texans took a wrong turn somewares
 
2014-07-15 09:10:06 PM
Why can't farmers just make more water?
 
2014-07-15 09:14:02 PM

rustypouch: I've been assured by Fark Independents that the free market guarantees the best outcomes.


And I have been assured by Fark Libs that the government would take care of us all.

/answer probably lies somewhere in between.
 
2014-07-15 09:17:18 PM

CruJones: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.

Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.

Hey, here in San Antonio we do really well actually. I think the same amount of water as when the city was half the size, ever since they found the blind salamander we have to be gentle with our aquifer. Really.

/we are building a new desalination plant too


SA Represent! Brushing my teeth with tequila was only hard the first time.
 
2014-07-15 09:18:40 PM

HeadLever:  I have been assured by Fark Libs that the government would take care of us all.


Cite the comment ? Oh wait, it never happened, did it?
 
2014-07-15 09:18:58 PM
This has been known for a while, and too few were willing to take corrective action until things got bad.  Sounds like our current climate change policy issues.
 
2014-07-15 09:19:58 PM

HeadLever: rustypouch: I've been assured by Fark Independents that the free market guarantees the best outcomes.

And I have been assured by Fark Libs that the government would take care of us all.

/answer probably lies somewhere in between.


Agreed that some regulation is needed.

But I don't recall anyone saying that the government should take care of everything, but it's not hard to find people complaining about government overreach and job killing regulations.
 
2014-07-15 09:20:15 PM

dangelder: Cite the comment ? Oh wait, it never happened, did it?


Same place as RP found the comments by the Fark Independents.  Poking the strawmen is fun, isn't it?
 
2014-07-15 09:21:32 PM
It's just as well. DHMO is a dangerous chemical that has been implicated in the deaths of millions of Americans.
 
2014-07-15 09:23:01 PM

HeadLever: dangelder: Cite the comment ? Oh wait, it never happened, did it?

Same place as RP found the comments by the Fark Independents.  Poking the strawmen is fun, isn't it?


I've been hanging around here for a while and I have seen the appeals to the free market, but I haven't seen anyone seriously contend the government will take care of us all, and I don't know what it means or why it would be fun to poke a strawman.
 
2014-07-15 09:23:37 PM
Usul, tell me of your home world...
 
2014-07-15 09:24:00 PM
I do find it amusing to see teabagger Texans who rallied against environmental regulations discover that their business depends on the environment.
 
2014-07-15 09:24:22 PM

rustypouch: but it's not hard to find people complaining about government overreach and job killing regulations.


Arguing against federal overreach is not the same as saying that laissez-faire markets guarantees the best outcomes.  The feds do overreach from time to time.  Some regulations do kill jobs.  Complaining about that is to be expected.
 
2014-07-15 09:25:48 PM

dangelder: I've been hanging around here for a while and I have seen the appeals to the free market,


In what degree?  Free market with appropriate oversight or laissez-faire free market?  There is a bit of a difference.
 
2014-07-15 09:26:38 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Marcus Aurelius: Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

The bottled water market is a drop in the bucket compared to the demand coming from cities in the southwest.  Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.

Not in California is doesn't.  Nestle's Arrowhead is pumping water from aquifers out in the desert, and because the land is owned by Native American tribes, there's zero oversight as to how much water they are taking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2014/07/12/nestle-ar ro whead-tapping-water/12589267/


struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-15 09:26:39 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I do find it amusing to see teabagger Texans who rallied against environmental regulations discover that their business depends on the environment.

Most of us who live in the urban areas of Texas are finding it pretty funny too.
 
2014-07-15 09:29:05 PM

ScaryBottles: Well I'll grab my spears and buckler.....



I will also be offering unconditional protection for any Texas residents skilled in blacksmithing who want it.


May you always find water and shade
 
2014-07-15 09:29:53 PM

rustypouch: I've been assured by Fark Independents that the free market guarantees the best outcomes.

Why would this be any different?


Free market only works well when the costs are borne by the producers at about the same time and place as the product is made.  Then they pass the costs on to the consumer, and if another producer finds a better way or place, the free market selects them.  But if the costs aren't part of the initial process, then the market is skewed towards those that would use resources and produce as quickly and cheaply as possible, even if everyone ends up paying more (for federal disaster aid, etc.) as a result.
 
2014-07-15 09:30:01 PM

Trayal: ScaryBottles: Well I'll grab my spears and buckler.....

I will also be offering unconditional protection for any Texas residents skilled in blacksmithing who want it.

May you always find water and shade


Peace be on your spear brother.
 
2014-07-15 09:33:35 PM
I wanted to crank the numbers on a solar thermal plant that heats sea water until it can flash to steam, run through a turbine, then condensed in a heat  exchanger that preheats incoming sea water. Bound to be practical somewhere.
 
2014-07-15 09:35:39 PM
Good riddance. DMHO is an extremely dangerous chemical anyway.
 
2014-07-15 09:35:39 PM

wildcardjack: I wanted to crank the numbers on a solar thermal plant that heats sea water until it can flash to steam, run through a turbine, then condensed in a heat  exchanger that preheats incoming sea water. Bound to be practical somewhere.


$1 trillion; per unit. No bid contract with Halliburton.
 
2014-07-15 09:38:46 PM

wildcardjack: Bound to be practical somewhere.


It is practical, just not economical in many circumstances when you compare it to most available sources of fresh water. Desal through distillation has been used forever, but it is energy intensive.
 
2014-07-15 09:40:50 PM

maddogdelta: Good riddance. DMHO is an extremely dangerous chemical anyway.


We've got Gatorade.....
 
2014-07-15 09:41:30 PM

dangelder: and I don't know what it means or why it would be fun to poke a strawman


Because it is much easier to poke the strawman than to actually address the real argument.  Most of the rhetorical comments here are basically strawmen.
 
2014-07-15 09:41:53 PM
Oh no. Not Texas. Not that shining bastion of rational thought and humanitarian concern. Oh how it makes me weep.
 
2014-07-15 09:42:00 PM
How can I make money from this? Assume that things will keep getting worse, what is a good investment for long term profits?
 
2014-07-15 09:42:34 PM
I'm sure they will pick themselves up by the bootstraps. Let's not worry.
 
2014-07-15 09:46:26 PM

HeadLever: wildcardjack: Bound to be practical somewhere.

It is practical, just not economical in many circumstances when you compare it to most available sources of fresh water. Desal through distillation has been used forever, but it is energy intensive.


The idea is desal through using the sea water as the working fluid in a solar plant. Solar combined power and water is the soup rain.
 
2014-07-15 09:46:28 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Dancin_In_Anson: The article mentioned pivot irrigation which is a HUGE waste.

Better than flood irrigation, that they do out here in California despite the drought.  Something like 80% of the water use in California goes to agriculture, and because the water is subsidized, its so cheap that they'd rather flood a grove of trees than use drip or other more efficient irrigation methods.  Of course, it would also help if they didn't plant water hungry plants like Almond Trees or rice as well, but that's apparently where the money is.


Yeah, but water can't be readily shipped anywhere very far at affordable cost, so it really doesn't matter. It's not like farmers are pouring it on the ground while little kids die of thirst and hunger.

[insert Pulitzer winning photo here...you know the one I mean]

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Californians would rather steal it from everyone else. And if it keeps them away from me I'd call that a fair exchange.


Another old wife's tale. According to the Sierra Club, California uses about 82 MAF of water each year for all purposes, from keeping salmon fry happy to flushing my toilet. Of that, only 4.4 MAF...or about 5% comes from the Colorado River, the ONLY arguably out-of-state source of California water. Every drop of the rest is from in-State. Even the Colorado River water is obviously at least partially "California" water, since the river flows through California for a couple hundred miles forming our border with Aridzona.
 
2014-07-15 09:46:35 PM

Calm: How can I make money from this? Assume that things will keep getting worse, what is a good investment for long term profits?


Buy farmland with a reliable source of water.  Beef and Pork prices are already at or near all-time highs.  Agriculture may end up coming back 'in style' it this keeps up.
 
2014-07-15 09:50:26 PM

wildcardjack: The idea is desal through using the sea water as the working fluid in a solar plant. Solar combined power and water is the soup rain.


Yes, I know.  However, you still need a very high input of energy (in this case direct solar).  It is still very expensive for us to capture this energy (mostly capital cost as the O&M on these are pretty low).
 
2014-07-15 09:50:56 PM
Meanwhile, (also) in Texas...

s.newsweek.com
 
2014-07-15 09:54:26 PM

Stone Meadow: Of that, only 4.4 MAF...or about 5% comes from the Colorado River,


True, but that 4.4MAF is about 27% of the total appropriated water for this river.  California has the largest 'right' of any single state for Colorado River water.
 
2014-07-15 09:59:11 PM
This is the best part of the whole article. ""We got our faith in the Good Lord," says Schur. "He's the one who provides. He's the one who determines what we're going to make ... But, you know, he's certainly testing our patience."  "
Yep, so bootstrappy. It took God 50,000 years to put that water in place, 100 years for you to pig it all, now he won't refill it and it "tests you patience" Just standing there waiting for your entitlement handout. good luck with that.
 
2014-07-15 09:59:14 PM

HeadLever: dangelder: Cite the comment ? Oh wait, it never happened, did it?

Same place as RP found the comments by the Fark Independents.  Poking the strawmen is fun, isn't it?


In the threads about Bundy, for a recent example.

I'm on my phone, and am having issues copying.

Also, are you admitting to making a straw man?
 
2014-07-15 10:03:59 PM

rustypouch: In the threads about Bundy, for a recent example.


Really?  Where?  I have been in a number of them and don't remember anyone saying that laissez-faire markets guarantees the best outcomes. Feel free to show me where.
 
2014-07-15 10:05:37 PM

HeadLever: Calm: How can I make money from this? Assume that things will keep getting worse, what is a good investment for long term profits?

Buy farmland with a reliable source of water.  Beef and Pork prices are already at or near all-time highs.  Agriculture may end up coming back 'in style' it this keeps up.


Unfortunately most the best farmland is real expensive, contaminated or covered with strip malls and townhouses.
 
2014-07-15 10:09:23 PM

rustypouch: Also, are you admitting to making a straw man?


Pretty much.  They get lonely too.
 
2014-07-15 10:09:37 PM

CruJones: /we are building a new desalination plant too


We should be building enough of these to green up deserts. But the EPA hates 'em.

You're lucky they're letting you build one near you.
 
2014-07-15 10:10:12 PM

TravelingFreakshow: CruJones: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.

Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.

Hey, here in San Antonio we do really well actually. I think the same amount of water as when the city was half the size, ever since they found the blind salamander we have to be gentle with our aquifer. Really.

/we are building a new desalination plant too

SA Represent! Brushing my teeth with tequila was only hard the first time.




Last time I lived in SA, the citizens voted against building a water reservoir, because taxes.
 
2014-07-15 10:10:51 PM

maddogdelta: Good riddance. DMHO is an extremely dangerous chemical anyway.


Do they still make that stuff? I thought it had been outlawed a long time ago.
 
2014-07-15 10:11:55 PM

big pig peaches: Unfortunately most the best farmland is real expensive, contaminated or covered with strip malls and townhouses.


Yep.  No one ever said it would be easy.
 
2014-07-15 10:12:43 PM
Why does everyone hate the job creators?  All the people using water and draining the entire region are obviously job creators.  Leave them alone.

Isn't it true that ALL conservatives think the conservation is the same as Communism?  I've heard that over and over again from every person claiming they are true Conservatives.  Personally, I hope they all die.

God hates stupid people, that why they should be allowed to die.

I've got an idea!  Why don't you idiots in Texas pray for water?  That always works.
 
2014-07-15 10:17:03 PM

iheartscotch: I keep saying that Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska and Texas should pool resources and build several massive desalination plants on the Gulf of Mexico and pipe in water. But, it won't happen till the Oglala is tapped out.


That's going to come at a massive price.  Three double digit percentage increases for me in 4 years for a 31 mile pipeline and no desal plant.
 
2014-07-15 10:23:12 PM

DoctorWhat: rustypouch: I've been assured by Fark Independents that the free market guarantees the best outcomes.

Why would this be any different?

Free market only works well when the costs are borne by the producers at about the same time and place as the product is made.  Then they pass the costs on to the consumer, and if another producer finds a better way or place, the free market selects them.  But if the costs aren't part of the initial process, then the market is skewed towards those that would use resources and produce as quickly and cheaply as possible, even if everyone ends up paying more (for federal disaster aid, etc.) as a result.


It's called the Tragedy of the Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons ) and is hardly a new idea.  If there is a common shared resource, people will tend to over-use that resource for personal gain to the detriment of the general good.
 
2014-07-15 10:23:18 PM

HeadLever: Stone Meadow: Of that, only 4.4 MAF...or about 5% comes from the Colorado River,

True, but that 4.4MAF is about 27% of the total appropriated water for this river.  California has the largest 'right' of any single state for Colorado River water.


Of course we do, but of the 7 states sharing the Colorado River drainage California has 38 million people, versus Colorado (5.2 million), Utah (2.9m), Wyoming (0.6m), Arizona (6.6m) and Nevada (2.8m) for a total of 18 million non-Californians sharing the USA's share of the water, so I figure we're getting screwed out of half our share.

Screwed or not, them's the cards dealt at the Colorado River Compact of 1922, and it will take an Act of God to change it.

Meanwhile, folks who claim we are somehow "stealing" other State's water are full of shiat.
 
2014-07-15 10:33:35 PM
When you consider the amount of energy required to desalinate and pipe water several thousand miles, it really makes you appreciate the hydrologic cycle all the more.
 
2014-07-15 10:36:49 PM

ScaryBottles: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I do find it amusing to see teabagger Texans who rallied against environmental regulations discover that their business depends on the environment.
Most of us who live in the urban areas of Texas are finding it pretty funny too.


All of us in the country are farking your mothers.
 
2014-07-15 10:40:18 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: I'm sure they will pick themselves up by the bootstraps. Let's not worry.


They'll just go on planting weeds, collecting on their federally subsidized crop insurance and railing against the big government that gives it to them.
 
2014-07-15 10:46:55 PM
Wait a minute, they are blaming the watering pivots that water crops from man dug wells. Wouldn't any water sprayed on the surface, at least in part, trickle back down to the aquifer?
 
2014-07-15 10:50:20 PM
It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

And I still get told I'm nuts or got too many onions on my belt.

I first took note in Florida, where, as a kid, we mostly ran off individual water wells in my rural area and the water table was so high that digging three feet down often brought seepage. Only one house that I knew of in the city had a real basement -- due to the water table -- and it was on the barrier island in a high spot.

When the population tripled, people found they had to drive their wells deeper and the water was not as good. So, naturally, water softeners were coming into their own and nearly everybody had one.

Each one dumped 80 lbs of salt brine onto the ground a week from the back flushing process. Consider the average rural block had 20 houses on it. That's 6400 lbs of salt a month. Salt does not go away. Rains wash it into the ground, where it begins to infiltrate the water table.

Consider also that those 20 houses have 20 below ground septic systems, each pumping X-number of gallons of effluent into the soil daily. The effluent needs some place to go and the more that gets dumped in a concentrated area, the more space it needs and the more condensed it becomes.

Eventually it starts to get into the water supply and drain off into ditches, which drain into the local lagoon and, suddenly, during the summer, the waters there carry a dangerous load of human fecal bacteria, forcing the city to close it down.

By the 80's commercial fishing in the lagoon had to be stopped by the government because they were stripping the place clean of everything. In the 60's, you could go fishing there for a day and bring home enough fresh seafood, crabs, clams and oysters to feed a family of five for a week.

By the middle 80's -- you were lucky to catch enough for one meal. Plus, the city warned you when it was wise to leave shellfish alone due to fecal pollution levels.

By the late 70's, the city extended water lines out into rural areas, closing the majority of the individual wells. So many homes were sucking water out of the ground that the water levels had dropped drastically and pollutants had started showing up.

Of course, when the housing boom hit, darn near every square foot of the county wound up being plowed under for even more homes, with the city's blessings. Over 2000 homes and apartments went up, and most of those with lawns which require much water. They also added several hundred miles of paved roads and parking areas, which cut off acres of wild woods which used to soak up rain water like a sponge and replenish the aquifer.

So, it became mandatory for developments and businesses to build salvage ponds, which channeled drainage into them to reabsorb into the ground. Problem is, they also channel in all of the pollutants caused by the thousands of cars which had been added and the increase in delivery truck traffic.

That in turn, provided homes for the ever expanding and protected gator population, meaning the toothy critters lurked in every pond and stream -- especially on golf courses.

Since the over population had driven out the majority of wild animals, the gators started looking towards the nearby and stupid humans for food.

Now, we have water shortages. You need to have a license to fish in the lagoon but even the millions of bait fish -- Mullet -- have become so scarce that they're regulated. The cops patrol the lagoon now, checking licenses. You better have the right stamps on it for the fish you catch or face a stiff fine.

In the low waters along the shore, you can't hardly move since professional crabbers have covered the area with hundreds of traps, meaning you can no longer get those huge, delicious Blue Crabs with a chicken neck and a string. They've harvested the majority of the big, old crabs and mainly you now get the smaller, young ones.

Huge oyster beds that people harvested from for years are gone. Dug out for high end development harbors. Clam beds have been over harvested and are gone, many plowed under by new development.

One of the best ones, in a huge, shallow tidal pool is now buried under a boat ramp, tennis court, jogging trail complex.

And still, people pour into my city yearly. Traffic has become a nightmare. Decades old citrus groves have been sold and turned into housing complexes. Drainage ditches which used to run with shallow, clear water, like creeks and streams, now run with murky, dark waters, deeper and more foul.

Now people are discovering what I had been yelling about for decades.

The majority of my graduating class from High School packed up and left the state for greener pastures.

The environmental damage is obvious, yet there is no mention of limiting populations, even by banning further new housing developments.

One of the things which bothers me the most is the lagoon. As a kid I fished and swam there, camped on the banks and explored the interesting waters along the shores. The wind from the waters was fresh and salty. The surface a deep, muddy blue and nice.

Now, so many boats use the waters that on hot days the surface shimmers with coats of oil from exhaust systems and the lagoon reeks of a sour, distinctive oil and dirty water smell.

The water looks, well, sick -- in a bad way.

I rarely go to the lagoon anymore. I don't like what has happened to it.

I don't like what several thousand new residents have done to my town.

Too many people in a limited space with limited resources can cause a major disaster, yet politicians, bribed by wealthy land owners and businessmen, encourage more and more people to settle in because they bring in big profits.

BTW. 40 years back, Florida did not have the huge amount of sinkholes it now has -- caused by the lowering of the underground water levels. Folks fill them in and keep building and keep sucking water out of the ground.

Now, Texas has begun to recognize it's own stupidity, after it got too late. Folks there have been yelling for decades over water abuse and also been ignored.

We had better get into space soon and start bleeding off large amounts of the population before there is no one left.
 
2014-07-15 10:51:56 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Wait a minute, they are blaming the watering pivots that water crops from man dug wells. Wouldn't any water sprayed on the surface, at least in part, trickle back down to the aquifer?


I would guess that when spraying water on a hot, dry day 99% of the water that the plants don't suck up would evaporate rather than make it's way back to the aquifer.
 
2014-07-15 10:53:09 PM
In the last two days we've received nigh on three quarters of an inch of rain.  Our reservoirs are almost back to where they should be.
 
2014-07-15 10:53:21 PM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

And I still get told I'm nuts or got too many onions on my belt.

I first took note in Florida, where, as a kid, we mostly ran off individual water wells in my rural area and the water table was so high that digging three feet down often brought seepage. Only one house that I knew of in the city had a real basement -- due to the water table -- and it was on the barrier island in a high spot.

When the population tripled, people found they had to drive their wells deeper and the water was not as good. So, naturally, water softeners were coming into their own and nearly everybody had one.

Each one dumped 80 lbs of salt brine onto the ground a week from the back flushing process. Consider the average rural block had 20 houses on it. That's 6400 lbs of salt a month. Salt does not go away. Rains wash it into the ground, where it begins to infiltrate the water table.

Consider also that those 20 houses have 20 below ground septic systems, each pumping X-number of gallons of effluent into the soil daily. The effluent needs some place to go and the more that gets dumped in a concentrated area, the more space it needs and the more condensed it becomes.

Eventually it starts to get into the water supply and drain off into ditches, which drain into the local lagoon and, suddenly, during the summer, the waters there carry a dangerous load of human fecal bacteria, forcing the city to close it down.

By the 80's commercial fishing in the lagoon had to be stopped by the government because they were stripping the place clean of everything. In the 60's, you could go fishing there for a day and bring home enough fresh seafood, crabs, clams and oysters to feed a family of five for a week.

By the middle 80's -- you were lucky to catch enough for one meal. Plus, the city warned you when it was wise to leave shellfish alone due to fecal pollution levels.

By ...

img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-07-15 10:53:26 PM
Why is Red Green featured prominently in this article?
 
2014-07-15 10:55:02 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Marcus Aurelius: Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

The bottled water market is a drop in the bucket compared to the demand coming from cities in the southwest.  Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.

Not in California is doesn't.  Nestle's Arrowhead is pumping water from aquifers out in the desert, and because the land is owned by Native American tribes, there's zero oversight as to how much water they are taking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2014/07/12/nestle-ar ro whead-tapping-water/12589267/


That is not us goverment land as you have stated. The Indians earns the right to screw the white man and earn profit from their private land. It sux but it's true.
 
2014-07-15 10:58:19 PM

Rik01: And still, people pour into my city yearly. Traffic has become a nightmare. Decades old citrus groves have been sold and turned into housing complexes. Drainage ditches which used to run with shallow, clear water, like creeks and streams, now run with murky, dark waters, deeper and more foul

.

People were saying that about you when you showed up.
 
2014-07-15 11:00:39 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: MemeSlave: Move where the water is.

Californians would rather steal it from everyone else. And if it keeps them away from me I'd call that a fair exchange.


Why do Texans hate Californians so much? I've been living in Austin for a year and that's all I hear is how Californians are ruining the city single-handedly.
 
2014-07-15 11:01:04 PM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

And I still get told I'm nuts or got too many onions on my belt.

I first took note in Florida, where, as a kid, we mostly ran off individual water wells in my rural area and the water table was so high that digging three feet down often brought seepage. Only one house that I knew of in the city had a real basement -- due to the water table -- and it was on the barrier island in a high spot.

When the population tripled, people found they had to drive their wells deeper and the water was not as good. So, naturally, water softeners were coming into their own and nearly everybody had one.

Each one dumped 80 lbs of salt brine onto the ground a week from the back flushing process. Consider the average rural block had 20 houses on it. That's 6400 lbs of salt a month. Salt does not go away. Rains wash it into the ground, where it begins to infiltrate the water table.

Consider also that those 20 houses have 20 below ground septic systems, each pumping X-number of gallons of effluent into the soil daily. The effluent needs some place to go and the more that gets dumped in a concentrated area, the more space it needs and the more condensed it becomes.

Eventually it starts to get into the water supply and drain off into ditches, which drain into the local lagoon and, suddenly, during the summer, the waters there carry a dangerous load of human fecal bacteria, forcing the city to close it down.

By the 80's commercial fishing in the lagoon had to be stopped by the government because they were stripping the place clean of everything. In the 60's, you could go fishing there for a day and bring home enough fresh seafood, crabs, clams and oysters to feed a family of five for a week.

By the middle 80's -- you were lucky to catch enough for one meal. Plus, the city warned you when it was wise to leave shellfish alone due to fecal pollution levels.

By ...

cdn.hark.com
 
2014-07-15 11:01:17 PM

iheartscotch: ScaryBottles: Well I'll grab my spears and buckler.....

I will also be offering unconditional protection for any Texas residents skilled in blacksmithing who want it.

Sooo; we're gonna turn Aiel? Fun times!



Half of those ginger bastards should have died of melanomas of the eyeballs.
 
2014-07-15 11:02:31 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: "Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

― Cree Indian Prophecy


So money can be eaten? Well hell, the 1% is solid then. What are we worrying about again?
 
2014-07-15 11:03:48 PM
Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

Rik, I could have written your post.
I moved out of SoFla as soon as I could, and made a vow to use no chemicals in whatever agricultural enterprise I worked.
Well, that didn't last. You can't produce squat anymore without some help from ADM or Monsanto.

/still use no chems on the vegetables
//hand clean the veggie plants, takes about three hours a day during the season to groom them
///but dayum, citrus is chemical and water intensive
 
2014-07-15 11:08:51 PM

Stone Meadow: HeadLever: Stone Meadow: Of that, only 4.4 MAF...or about 5% comes from the Colorado River,

True, but that 4.4MAF is about 27% of the total appropriated water for this river.  California has the largest 'right' of any single state for Colorado River water.

Of course we do, but of the 7 states sharing the Colorado River drainage California has 38 million people, versus Colorado (5.2 million), Utah (2.9m), Wyoming (0.6m), Arizona (6.6m) and Nevada (2.8m) for a total of 18 million non-Californians sharing the USA's share of the water, so I figure we're getting screwed out of half our share.

Screwed or not, them's the cards dealt at the Colorado River Compact of 1922, and it will take an Act of God to change it.

Meanwhile, folks who claim we are somehow "stealing" other State's water are full of shiat.



Not to mention the complete screwing that Mexico gets in that whole thing.  Mexicali gets the driest, nubbliest sip off the bled-out aquifers down near the delta where it supposedly reaches the Sea of Cortez.
 
2014-07-15 11:11:31 PM
At least here in NM, we know we're in a desert, and act, at least most of us, accordingly.Even my dson knows, when he goes out, to carry a water bottle with him.
 
2014-07-15 11:22:54 PM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

And I still get told I'm nuts or got too many onions on my belt.

I first took note in Florida, where, as a kid, we mostly ran off individual water wells in my rural area and the water table was so high that digging three feet down often brought seepage. Only one house that I knew of in the city had a real basement -- due to the water table -- and it was on the barrier island in a high spot.

When the population tripled, people found they had to drive their wells deeper and the water was not as good. So, naturally, water softeners were coming into their own and nearly everybody had one.

Each one dumped 80 lbs of salt brine onto the ground a week from the back flushing process. Consider the average rural block had 20 houses on it. That's 6400 lbs of salt a month. Salt does not go away. Rains wash it into the ground, where it begins to infiltrate the water table.

Consider also that those 20 houses have 20 below ground septic systems, each pumping X-number of gallons of effluent into the soil daily. The effluent needs some place to go and the more that gets dumped in a concentrated area, the more space it needs and the more condensed it becomes.

Eventually it starts to get into the water supply and drain off into ditches, which drain into the local lagoon and, suddenly, during the summer, the waters there carry a dangerous load of human fecal bacteria, forcing the city to close it down.

By the 80's commercial fishing in the lagoon had to be stopped by the government because they were stripping the place clean of everything. In the 60's, you could go fishing there for a day and bring home enough fresh seafood, crabs, clams and oysters to feed a family of five for a week.

By the middle 80's -- you were lucky to catch enough for one meal. Plus, the city warned you when it was wise to leave shellfish alone due to fecal pollution levels.

By ...


Your post is awesome read in this voice:

img3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-07-15 11:24:53 PM
I was having this discussion with a friend the other day: while water prices here in the Cleveland area increase above a certain level of consumption and vary based on how high above Lake Erie you live (pumping costs), they're still ridiculously cheap.  We did the math and the highest possible rate for 2015 comes out to 8/10 of a cent per gallon.  That's less than a penny per gallon to water your lawn or wash your car with  drinkable water that the rest of world is willing to kill each other over.

/just another thing to be very thankful for
//LeBron gets it
 
2014-07-15 11:26:07 PM
Hi, Texas... Michigan here, `Just wanted to say you can't have our water. Enjoy your big state.
 
2014-07-15 11:38:16 PM
So of I just show up in Mexico will they take care of me?

/I'd like $77,000, a permanent place to stay, right to vote myself more bennies, etc.
 
2014-07-15 11:38:47 PM

Colour_out_of_Space: Meanwhile, (also) in Texas...

[s.newsweek.com image 240x167]


OMFGs I want to see a Mark XXXIII Bolo run that thing over and smush it flat.
 
2014-07-15 11:41:07 PM

wildcardjack: HeadLever: wildcardjack: Bound to be practical somewhere.

It is practical, just not economical in many circumstances when you compare it to most available sources of fresh water. Desal through distillation has been used forever, but it is energy intensive.

The idea is desal through using the sea water as the working fluid in a solar plant. Solar combined power and water is the soup rain.


I'm pretty sure seawater as a working fluid isn't a good idea in basically every use.
 
2014-07-15 11:45:01 PM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

And I still get told I'm nuts or got too many onions on my belt.....

Too many people in a limited space with limited resources can cause a major disaster, yet politicians, bribed by wealthy land owners and businessmen, encourage more and more people to settle in because they bring in big profits.

BTW. 40 years back, Florida did not have the huge amount of sinkholes it now has -- caused by the lowering of the underground water levels. Folks fill them in and keep building and keep sucking water out of the ground.

Now, Texas has begun to recognize it's own stupidity, after it got too late. Folks there have been yelling for decades over water abuse and also been ignored.

We had better get into space soon and start bleeding off large amounts of the population before there is no one left.


I just want to tell you that I always enjoy your posts, even if they are about depressing things.
 
2014-07-15 11:46:58 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Bottled water itself is retarded, but it comes from places where water is cheap and plentiful.


I grew up drinking some of the best well water around, and have since spent time in some places where the water reeked of sulphur or something something more...organic.  I came to appreciate the cheapest store-brand bottled water.  So sue me.
 
2014-07-15 11:53:26 PM

jiggs: And yet we are sucking millions if gallons of water from the ground and injecting it back into wells for natural gas. Too bad we can't drink dollar bills.


That's ok.  The oceans are rising, so if we pump some into the ground, it is no big deal.
 
2014-07-15 11:57:23 PM

iheartscotch: I keep saying that Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska and Texas should pool resources and build several massive desalination plants on the Gulf of Mexico and pipe in water. But, it won't happen till the Oglala is tapped out.


If you are going to invest that much why not tap some large river that may be nearby, sure it would have to be filtered but that may be easier than desalination.
 
2014-07-16 12:00:53 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: [media.tumblr.com image 500x272]

DURKA DUR!


---- Came for some sort of TERK ER JERBS!!!
Leaving satisfied, no longer caring.
 
2014-07-16 12:08:30 AM

jst3p: vudukungfu: Mentat: It seems like only days ago some Farker was mocking the idea of running out of water...

did he live in Vermont?
'cause we're good

Colorado here, we are OK too.


You mean this Colorado?
 
2014-07-16 12:10:25 AM

Ex-Texan: At least here in NM, we know we're in a desert, and act, at least most of us, accordingly.Even my dson knows, when he goes out, to carry a water bottle with him.


I was glad to see that the residents of Alamogordo didn't have lawns, but the town does have a golf course.  NO!  BAD!
 
2014-07-16 12:13:09 AM
This is why I don't live near a farking desert. I have a house in Wisconsin, and a second home right on the shore of Lake Superior in Michigan. You couldn't pay me enough to get me to live in a desert.
 
2014-07-16 12:14:28 AM

jst3p: Colorado here, we are OK too.


Bite your tongue!

More people keep trickling in.  The HOA's mandate luxurious lawns of thirsty grass that doesn't belong here.  And barring the most fortuitous and unlikely form of climate change, the amount of precipitation isn't going to increase.
 
2014-07-16 12:19:35 AM

Stone Meadow: Meanwhile, folks who claim we are somehow "stealing" other State's water are full of shiat.


Mexico, on the other hand.......
 
2014-07-16 12:23:45 AM
I remember hearing back in the 80's how we were sucking the midwest aquifers dry. Thirty years later I have no sympathy. They knew it was coming. They knew how to mitigate or avoid it.
 
2014-07-16 12:25:15 AM
www.prlog.org

/Giant sucking sound.
 
2014-07-16 12:40:46 AM

DrunkWithImpotence: DoctorWhat: rustypouch: I've been assured by Fark Independents that the free market guarantees the best outcomes.

Why would this be any different?

Free market only works well when the costs are borne by the producers at about the same time and place as the product is made.  Then they pass the costs on to the consumer, and if another producer finds a better way or place, the free market selects them.  But if the costs aren't part of the initial process, then the market is skewed towards those that would use resources and produce as quickly and cheaply as possible, even if everyone ends up paying more (for federal disaster aid, etc.) as a result.

It's called the Tragedy of the Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons ) and is hardly a new idea.  If there is a common shared resource, people will tend to over-use that resource for personal gain to the detriment of the general good.


Interestingly, it doesn't always work that way. The original example - Everyone puts so many sheep on the land that they destroy it - was used by landowners at the time to justify closing the Commons and throwing the peasants out of their homes. It turned out the lairds were LESS productive over the long term. The traditional system had strict, sometimes deadly enforcement mechanisms to make sure nobody would sacrifice the productivity of the land for personal gain.
 
2014-07-16 12:45:06 AM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.

And I still get told I'm nuts or got too many onions on my belt.

I first took note in Florida, where, as a kid, we mostly ran off individual water wells in my rural area and the water table was so high that digging three feet down often brought seepage. Only one house that I knew of in the city had a real basement -- due to the water table -- and it was on the barrier island in a high spot.

When the population tripled, people found they had to drive their wells deeper and the water was not as good. So, naturally, water softeners were coming into their own and nearly everybody had one.


Preach it, Brother Jeremiah!
/Favorited.
 
2014-07-16 12:47:09 AM
We don't need water. We have Brawndo!
 
2014-07-16 12:47:17 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

Soon...
 
2014-07-16 12:55:40 AM

star_topology: Adolf Oliver Nipples: MemeSlave: Move where the water is.

Californians would rather steal it from everyone else. And if it keeps them away from me I'd call that a fair exchange.

Why do Texans hate Californians so much? I've been living in Austin for a year and that's all I hear is how Californians are ruining the city single-handedly.


They may not be aware of Austin's tech industry, which attracts Silicon Valley types, or Texas's more lenient business environment that has been luring companies away from California.
 
2014-07-16 01:05:28 AM
They will figure a way:


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-16 01:07:11 AM

MisterTweak: Raider_dad: So we have had an underground version of the Aral Sea.

FTFY.

A lot of Texas' prosperity over the last couple decades has been possible due to plentiful, nearly-free water. Which is basically gone now.

Anyone here visit Lake Travis in the last, say, half-decade or so? Not quite as horrific as Lake Mead yet, but heading there. The water level is down by almost 40 feet, and unlike previous droughts, this one isn't short-lived, it's been decreasing steadily for almost a decade, and despite fairly drastic measures, shows little hope of returning to the levels seen over the last 50 years.


Lake Travis is actually a pretty good measuring stick for how the Colorado River is doing. We won't see it full again until Lake Austin (or whatever they call it now) doesn't need any, and Lake Marble Falls has too much. In my 26 years I've seen it flood Hwy 1431 three times at the Cow Creek inlet, but last summer I waded all the way to the south bank without getting my knees wet. Good to see another Travis Co. Farker. I live in Aggieland, but my family has land on the "peninsula" across from the Pedernales River inlet.
 
2014-07-16 01:40:07 AM
A 2013 study published in Environmental Science and Technology looked at past and projected water use for fracking in the Barnett, Eagle Ford, and Haynesville shale plays in Texas, and found that fracking in 2011 was using more than twice as much water in the state as it was three years earlier. In Dimmit County, home to the Eagle Ford shale development in South Texas, fracking accounted for nearly a quarter of overall water consumption in 2011 and is expected to grow to a third in a few years, according to the study

"Each drill site requires between 3 and 5 million gallons of water per frack"

"Generally, 2-8 million gallons of water may be used to frack a well."

So 4-5 million gallons of water per well. Texas has at least 1600 wells and counting in Dimmit County.

That's seven billion two hundred million gallons of water for one county.


You are letting corporations and the wealthy take your water supplies from you.
cdn.memegenerator.net
 
2014-07-16 01:43:54 AM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.


The problem isn't overpopulation, the problem is lack of foresight and unwillingness to invest in efficiency.
In theory there is more than enough water and food for a few billion people more.

Most people have no idea how hopelessly inefficiently our food is being produced and our resources are being used. The technology is quite simply already there to do it differently, we're just not doing it yet.

Probably the most advanced country in the world when it comes to food production is the Netherlands. The country is about the size of New Hampshire, very densily populated, and still manages to be the world's third largest exporter of vegetables and fruit after the USA and France.  For a large part thanks to an area the size of manhattan covered completely with the highest technology greenhouses.

Feeding the world is no problem at all, if you produce the right products in the right places with the right technology, eat a little meat and fish, and rely on potatoes as a staple (needs less water) instead of rice and wheat.
 
2014-07-16 02:07:22 AM
Disclaimer: I live in the desert. No, not Texas - think drier, more juniper.

What this story, and several others like it (like, say,  Rik01's) point to is that, no, we can't live like it's 1950's coastal Pennsylvania everywhere in the country, even if we have the technology to fake it from time to time like we did from the '60s to the '80s. Sure, we have the technology to "smooth out the consumption curve", if you will - we can irrigate when it's dry, like they did in Texas and like they do near where I live (curiously, the Newlands Project was named after a guy, not because it's eponymous with its primary function), but at some point, we have to make sure that, when it's wetter, we're putting some of the water  back. No amount of concrete or technology will change the fact that, at a certain point, there are limits to what a local environment will support. It's taking us a while to learn that lesson, but we're getting there.

To be fair, it doesn't help that we thought we had a lot more water than we really do - the Colorado River Compact, for example, was drawn up after a particularly wet period that just happened to correspond to the arrival of American immigrants into the West (this also led to the disastrous "Rain follows the plow" policy that decimated Oklahoma and Texas in the '30s), and it wasn't the only body of water rights legislation that was drawn up during that time period. It also doesn't help that, until the Green Revolution came along, our willingness and ability to grow anything anywhere, damn the cost, made it possible for us to stave off starvation and provide diet variety for a large chunk of the world. We still have that role, of course, but it's nowhere near as urgent as it was before South America's political situation stabilized (that's where a lot of your winter fruits and veggies come from now) and India and China became more or less self-sufficient. We're also getting smarter about water - fewer lawns and planted trees in the Southwest, lower flow toilets and showers, less water intensive crops (Arizona and Nevada both used to grow a lot more cotton than they do now). There's still a long ways to go; Americans still use more water per capita than anyone else, but we're getting better.
 
2014-07-16 02:25:54 AM

CruJones: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.

Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.

Hey, here in San Antonio we do really well actually. I think the same amount of water as when the city was half the size, ever since they found the blind salamander we have to be gentle with our aquifer. Really.

/we are building a new desalination plant too


It was either crank the taps back on the Edwards, or be well and truly screwed.  Medina Lake is pretty much empty, the Trinity Aquifer is not much more than a piss stream in the overall scheme of things, and Canyon Lake isn't much more than that. That, and they finally learned that a wide open 48" Artesian well also didn't do much for keeping the aquifer levels at a reasonable level.
 
2014-07-16 02:43:57 AM
Derrrr derrr durrrrrr
 
2014-07-16 03:21:05 AM
I guess Harold and the whole gang up at Possum Lodge need to keep a better eye on the lakes.
media2.s-nbcnews.com
 
2014-07-16 03:50:24 AM

kortex: Derrrr derrr durrrrrr


^ Does Fark have a new translation feature? Because usually some other poster has to boil down these posts to their essence.
 
2014-07-16 03:57:50 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: [media.tumblr.com image 500x272]

DURKA DUR!


This.
 
2014-07-16 04:01:17 AM
If only there was some way to economically desalinate water from the ocean.  Perhaps use the power of a nearby star?
 
2014-07-16 05:34:27 AM

Drunk Astronaut: If only there was some way to economically desalinate water from the ocean.  Perhaps use the power of a nearby star?


Nope. Because even if you do that part economically (it's expensive as hell with current technology) you have to pump water uphill. And you have to get rid of tons of toxic salt.
 
2014-07-16 06:48:44 AM

UberDave: I know who can get some water for them...


[img.fark.net image 500x302]


Yeah, but it might come with space herpies.

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Not in California is doesn't. Nestle's Arrowhead is pumping water from aquifers out in the desert, and because the land is owned by Native American tribes, there's zero oversight as to how much water they are taking.


Why do you want to ake rights from Native Americans?


kvinesknows: and yet the red river (northern) and the Mississippi flood almost every year... why not divert the excess to the aquifer ?


Wow...

Nevermind the logistics of getting the water there, and other surrounding lands that use the overflow of thsoe rivers, do you thin aquifers are just big empty caverns you can just "divert" water into?
 
2014-07-16 06:57:23 AM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.

Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.


There is an idea my father actually came up with, that'd solve the entire problem of drought in one place, flood in another. It involves building a network of irrigation pipes from flood-prone areas to the drought-stricken areas. When places flood, the water goes from there to a resevoir near the drought areas, thereby reducing or eliminating flooding, and increasing water in places that need it. Also, would generate a LOT of jobs, similar to the public works projects FDR procured.
 
2014-07-16 07:27:37 AM

liam76: kvinesknows: and yet the red river (northern) and the Mississippi flood almost every year... why not divert the excess to the aquifer ?


Wow...

Nevermind the logistics of getting the water there, and other surrounding lands that use the overflow of thsoe rivers, do you thin aquifers are just big empty caverns you can just "divert" water into?


when the rivers overflow... they pretty much just fark everyone over all along the way to the ocean.

logistics smogisttics.  getting the water to the aquifer is a few hundred miles from either watershed.  not a problem.

they are essentially holes waiting to be filled.. yes..... difficult? perhaps.,, easier than losing million of sq miles of farmland?  yes.
 
2014-07-16 07:44:32 AM
If the American Breadbasket cannot help supply ever-growing food demands, billions could starve.

Exaggerate much?
 
2014-07-16 08:19:54 AM

Stone Meadow: Rik01: And still, people pour into my city yearly. Traffic has become a nightmare. Decades old citrus groves have been sold and turned into housing complexes. Drainage ditches which used to run with shallow, clear water, like creeks and streams, now run with murky, dark waters, deeper and more foul.

People were saying that about you when you showed up.


No, he is different....


kvinesknows: when the rivers overflow... they pretty much just fark everyone over all along the way to the ocean.


http://www.collegian.com/2013/09/river-flooding-can-be-an-ecological- b enefit/43892/

http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/ASK/floods.html

kvinesknows: logistics smogisttics. getting the water to the aquifer is a few hundred miles from either watershed. not a problem.


Yeah huge problem.

The water doesn;t pop up at one spot where it can be conveniently piped, nor is it a constant rate which is what is reauired to pipe it effectively.

kvinesknows: they are essentially holes waiting to be filled.. yes.....


No. Do you think oil sits in big undeground lakes too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer

An aquifer is an underground layer of water-bearing permeable rock or unconsolidated materials (gravel, sand, or silt) from which groundwater can be extracted using a water well.


What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
2014-07-16 08:25:35 AM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Something like 80% of the water use in California goes to agriculture, and because the water is subsidized, its so cheap that they'd rather flood a grove of trees than use drip or other more efficient irrigation methods.


Insane. I don't know that I have seen much (if any) row watering in this region in years.

ElLoco: The guy from Vega is just a dirt farmer who grows as much for insurance as for forage.


Insurance farmers...I know a few of them too.

nyseattitude: You are letting corporations and the wealthy take your water supplies from you


You might be surprised to learn how much of that is recycled for reuse. Farming has about a 0% reclamation rate.
 
2014-07-16 09:12:10 AM
I used to live in Texas (and still really love it), but f*ck 'em.  This is what happens when you keep voting in politicians who deny climate change.
 
2014-07-16 09:32:50 AM

Rik01: It's ironic, but everything I have been yelling and ranting about caused by over population, for years, is starting to show up.


Preach on brother, preach on. Humans have demonstrated that we are simply very poor managers, whether of our natural resources, political parties or even our own reproduction... and then the sheeple wonder "whats happening?"
 
2014-07-16 10:00:11 AM

liam76: kvinesknows: they are essentially holes waiting to be filled.. yes.....

No. Do you think oil sits in big undeground lakes too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer

An aquifer is an underground layer of water-bearing permeable rock or unconsolidated materials (gravel, sand, or silt) from which groundwater can be extracted using a water well.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


Crude as it may have been put, kvinesknows has a point...water CAN be diverted into aquifers for storage until it is needed, and in fact this is done on an industrial scale in numerous places in the USA. I lived in Tucson some 20 years ago, where the water department routinely pumps excess water into the Avra Valley and Santa Cruz River aquifers for later retrieval and use. The canal that brings water from the Colorado River carries more than the city needs during the rainy seasons, but less than it needs during the dry seasons (two each per year). The water has to flow continuously, though and cannot be "surged", so the water department continuously manages where the water is sent as it arrives in Tucson, either into the mains or into the aquifer, from where it is later repumped to the surface as needed.

This is not to suggest pumping water from the Mississippi River to the high planes to recharge aquifers for grow grass for range cattle is a good idea, but it is certainly technically feasible. In the end it all boils down to how valuable the end product is.
 
2014-07-16 10:24:09 AM

fusillade762: This sentiment is also reflected in the state's water law, based on the concept of "right to capture." In short, if you own the land, you and only you own the water.

Ah yes, that corollary of the sacred "I got mine, f*ck you." rule.


Except that I can drink your milkshake if I'm on the same aquifer.  (If I have a straw.)
 
2014-07-16 10:27:06 AM

Stone Meadow: The canal that brings water from the Colorado River carries more than the city needs during the rainy seasons, but less than it needs during the dry seasons (two each per year). The water has to flow continuously, though and cannot be "surged", so the water department continuously manages where the water is sent as it arrives in Tucson, either into the mains or into the aquifer, from where it is later repumped to the surface as needed.


Look closer. It isn't sent "into" the aquifer, as in pumped. It is directed to streams or basins.

The Ogallala Aquifer is mostly covered by an impermeable layer which makes just having it sit there not feasible.


Stone Meadow: This is not to suggest pumping water from the Mississippi River to the high planes to recharge aquifers for grow grass for range cattle is a good idea, but it is certainly technically feasible.



If you are only looking at flood water? No it isn't.

It works where you are because the water is there anyway, they are just diverting it to local basins where it will eventually soak back to the aquifer.


The articel mentions that pumping is possible, but I have never seenit first hand, and you woudl be very limited into how much you could pump into one well at one time. If you are dealing with cyclical flood water (which is next to impossible to get there) you are going to have to have a means to store it on the surface in the interim.
 
2014-07-16 10:27:28 AM

kvinesknows: and yet the red river (northern) and the Mississippi flood almost every year... why not divert the excess to the aquifer ?


different watershed
 
2014-07-16 10:29:39 AM

HeadLever: And I have been assured by Fark Libs that the government would take care of us all.


No you weren't.
 
2014-07-16 10:36:41 AM
The really sad part is that all this water is used to irrigate commodity crops. The US now has 200 acres under cultivation for commodity crops (corn, wheat, soybeans, etc) for every one acre under cultivation for all fruits and vegetables. Agricultural scientists have been warning for years that this is not sustainable, even without global warming. Worse, the US is becoming increasingly dependent of other countries for our non-commodity foods. But corporate agribusiness (primarily Monstano, ADM, and Cargill), which now writes almost all of our agricultural policy, doesn't care about anything but mega-profits. Unfortunately, we cannot thrive on HFCS, soy lecithin, and wheat flour.
 
2014-07-16 10:57:07 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Something like 80% of the water use in California goes to agriculture, and because the water is subsidized, its so cheap that they'd rather flood a grove of trees than use drip or other more efficient irrigation methods.

Insane. I don't know that I have seen much (if any) row watering in this region in years.

ElLoco: The guy from Vega is just a dirt farmer who grows as much for insurance as for forage.

Insurance farmers...I know a few of them too.

nyseattitude: You are letting corporations and the wealthy take your water supplies from you

You might be surprised to learn how much of that is recycled for reuse. Farming has about a 0% reclamation rate.



No, the volume of water recycled from fracking isn't surprising at all. The industry made recycling claims in 2013 that have yet to come to fruition. Also, considering they will not disclose all the chemicals used in the fracking process, it's impossible to determine if they have been removed from recycled water.

In the meantime water limits and bans are imposed on people due to droughts.

February 4, 2014,
Study: In Midst of Drought, Fracking Industry Does Little to Recycle Water


Unlike fracking we need food to exist. A simple cost-benefit analysis would indicate the cost of water consumption is a beneficial requirement for farming.
 
2014-07-16 10:59:36 AM

Lsherm: Brontes: The EPA should come down on bottled water companies like a ton of bricks for wasting resources, both water and vast amounts of fuel.

Yes, the story is about farming, but damn we waste a lot of water in other ways.

Or we could encourage people to move out of the farking desert.

/just a thought.


To where exactly? You planning to relocate the entire southwest around the Great Lakes? Think the Great Lakes people are OK with that idea?
 
2014-07-16 11:10:22 AM
Build a couple of nuclear reactors. Desalinate all the water you want/need.

Problem solved.
 
2014-07-16 11:14:05 AM

People_are_Idiots: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: KarmicDisaster: I like the way that they are "pumping the last drops". Then they can try shootin the ground.

Everyone in Texas is against conservation of water, because it would cost jobs.

There is an idea my father actually came up with, that'd solve the entire problem of drought in one place, flood in another. It involves building a network of irrigation pipes from flood-prone areas to the drought-stricken areas. When places flood, the water goes from there to a resevoir near the drought areas, thereby reducing or eliminating flooding, and increasing water in places that need it. Also, would generate a LOT of jobs, similar to the public works projects FDR procured.


Your father has obviously never been in an actual flood. When the Mississippi floods, the flow rate is on the order of millions of gallons of water per SECOND. If you were going to save that water for future use, you'd need pipes 40ft in diameter, and I have no idea how you'd pump that much water to where you need it. The problem is that you can go from flood to low water levels in a month, so your pipe system would be competing with a large river to get rid of that water.
 
2014-07-16 11:15:55 AM

People_are_Idiots: There is an idea my father actually came up with, that'd solve the entire problem of drought in one place, flood in another. It involves building a network of irrigation pipes from flood-prone areas to the drought-stricken areas


And what is going to power the massive pump stations needed to get this water up and over the Continental Divide?  Do you know how expensive it would make this water?

Want to know how I know you are not a water resources engineer?
 
2014-07-16 11:17:04 AM

Graffito: No you weren't.


I see you missed the rest of my posts.
 
2014-07-16 11:21:34 AM

ZeroPly: Great Lakes people are OK with that id


We don't want them, we like things just the way they are. Let them figure out the problems they created.
 
2014-07-16 11:25:31 AM

JackieRabbit: The really sad part is that all this water is used to irrigate commodity crops.


All?  What the hell are you talking about?  Where I am at all crop are irrigated and there is very little wheat, corn or soybeans.

Mostly hay and potatoes out here.
 
2014-07-16 11:26:28 AM
Sorry, farmers, but you might have to, you know, go out of business. Yes, it sucks, but when there's not enough water to sustain farming in a location, well, time to leave that location.

Not that other water-preserving measures shouldn't be taken. But farming in a place where the rainfall doesn't sustain farming and drawing from an aquifer is becoming problematic is dumb.

And yeah, change the stupid Texas law.
 
2014-07-16 11:34:14 AM

People_are_Idiots: There is an idea my father actually came up with, that'd solve the entire problem of drought in one place, flood in another. It involves changing the basic laws of phsysics so the following is possible, building a network of irrigation pipes from flood-prone areas to the drought-stricken areas. When places flood, the water goes from there to a resevoir near the drought areas, thereby reducing or eliminating flooding, and increasing water in places that need it. Also, would generate a LOT of jobs, similar to the public works projects FDR procured


FTFY
 
2014-07-16 11:47:05 AM
lol, america.
 
2014-07-16 11:47:33 AM

liam76: What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


Long Island does attempt to recharge its aquifer via holes in the ground (called "sumps"), but they use lots of holes scattered all over the island rather than trying to recharge the entire aquifer from hundreds of miles away like kvinesknows was proposing.
 
2014-07-16 11:53:48 AM
bikkurikun

The problem isn't overpopulation, the problem is lack of foresight and unwillingness to invest in efficiency.
In theory there is more than enough water and food for a few billion people more.

Most people have no idea how hopelessly inefficiently our food is being produced and our resources are being used. The technology is quite simply already there to do it differently, we're just not doing it yet.

Probably the most advanced country in the world when it comes to food production is the Netherlands. The country is about the size of New Hampshire, very densily populated, and still manages to be the world's third largest exporter of vegetables and fruit after the USA and France.  For a large part thanks to an area the size of manhattan covered completely with the highest technology greenhouses.

Feeding the world is no problem at all, if you produce the right products in the right places with the right technology, eat a little meat and fish, and rely on potatoes as a staple (needs less water) instead of rice and wheat.


Agreed!

However, to be fair, up until around the 60's, folks didn't realize how the water system worked. Your average farmer just dug a well and sucked it dry, then located another spot and dug another one.

By the time the average person did get an understanding and had an idea of the looming potential problem, it was just one more Scary Harbinger of Doom that TV shows had been doing spots on and, besides, the bottled water industry had taken off, new, affordable powered water crafts had been developed for entertainment only and swimming pools were in vogue.

Besides, advances in technology had increased the availability of television and radios and along with this came the Doom Sayers, who broadcast long and loud about the Evils of Big Enterprise, Big Government and hundreds of other things and kind of overwhelmed the public.

Like, we went from 1 in 1000 people getting cancer to 1 in 3. Then, thanks to the media and the drive for ratings, you had to wonder just what didn't cause cancer.

When we started having droughts in Florida, water rationing went into effect -- but folks in high end communities still had lush, green lawns since they could afford the increase in the cost of water. Later, we started fining folks over wasting water during droughts and still a lot of people just had to have those lush, green lawns and top off their pools.

Pretty much, water conservation became somebody else's problem.

It wasn't until the 70's that I understood the full water cycle in Florida and the media was pointing out the value of keeping open wild woods for rain absorption -- but money talks and thousands of acres of woods here got paved over for businesses, high end communities and roads.

And the water shortage became chronic.

Technology like used in the Netherlands is expensive to install -- even though the stuff pays for itself down the road -- plus Big Business wants maximum profits with minimum expense. That alone encouraged the throw-away society, which also contributed to the depletion and pollution of existing potable water sources.

So, things get a tad complex and most people will do nothing until they are affected drastically and personally. Especially by being hit in the wallet.

In my city, the average citizens lost control over the place decades ago and the very wealthy control the city politics, who tend to be the major business owners and developers. Growth, to them, is money and lots of it.
 
2014-07-16 12:22:35 PM

liam76: Stone Meadow: The canal that brings water from the Colorado River carries more than the city needs during the rainy seasons, but less than it needs during the dry seasons (two each per year). The water has to flow continuously, though and cannot be "surged", so the water department continuously manages where the water is sent as it arrives in Tucson, either into the mains or into the aquifer, from where it is later repumped to the surface as needed.

Look closer. It isn't sent "into" the aquifer, as in pumped. It is directed to streams or basins.

The Ogallala Aquifer is mostly covered by an impermeable layer which makes just having it sit there not feasible.


Stone Meadow: This is not to suggest pumping water from the Mississippi River to the high planes to recharge aquifers for grow grass for range cattle is a good idea, but it is certainly technically feasible.


If you are only looking at flood water? No it isn't.

It works where you are because the water is there anyway, they are just diverting it to local basins where it will eventually soak back to the aquifer.


The articel mentions that pumping is possible, but I have never seenit first hand, and you woudl be very limited into how much you could pump into one well at one time. If you are dealing with cyclical flood water (which is next to impossible to get there) you are going to have to have a means to store it on the surface in the interim.


Let's not bog down in the specifics of one particular instance of aquifer recharging. Tucson diverts the water to surface-exposed aquifer, but that is no reason to presume water cannot be actively pumped into aquifers. Otherwise, fracking wouldn't be possible. As it is TFA mentions some county in Texas with 1500 wells that had 4-8 million gallons pumped into each one. Moreover, while parts of the Ogallala are under impermeable layers, other parts are only 3-4 feet under sand.

Point being that no only is aquifer recharging possible, it probably has a bright future. After all, we humans aren't going anywhere soon, and we aren't going to settle for "move somewhere there's water" answers, either. On the contrary, we're going to alter the environment to suit our needs, even if that eventually means near-continent-wide hydrology management. We're already doing it, however imperfectly, in the dry southwest, and it will only spread.
 
2014-07-16 12:24:22 PM

HeadLever: JackieRabbit: The really sad part is that all this water is used to irrigate commodity crops.

All?  What the hell are you talking about?  Where I am at all crop are irrigated and there is very little wheat, corn or soybeans.

Mostly hay and potatoes out here.


America's Breadbasket stretches from Texas to Canada, not just your little corner of the world. Hay and potatoes are commodity crops. So you very limited viewpoint isn't of much use. Know what the fark you are talking about before you call people down. Or at least read the FA, which touches on my point.
 
2014-07-16 12:36:05 PM

HeadLever: People_are_Idiots: There is an idea my father actually came up with, that'd solve the entire problem of drought in one place, flood in another. It involves building a network of irrigation pipes from flood-prone areas to the drought-stricken areas

And what is going to power the massive pump stations needed to get this water up and over the Continental Divide?  Do you know how expensive it would make this water?

Want to know how I know you are not a water resources engineer?


Want to know how I know you don't know the Romans did this?
 
2014-07-16 12:49:57 PM

ZeroPly: Your father has obviously never been in an actual flood.


https://www.google.com/search?q=fort+worth+flood&client=firefox-a&rl s= org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=E6z GU_zuAsquyASln4HABQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoATgo&biw=1920&bih=900

My dad's been through 3 (myself, only 2), including the massive flood on 7th Street. Know how they fixed it? Massive Irrigation and levees.
 
2014-07-16 12:57:06 PM

JackieRabbit: America's Breadbasket stretches from Texas to Canada, not just your little corner of the world.


However, if you were correct by stating that 'all this water is used to irrigate commodity crops' was correct, then that would also apply to my 'little corner of the world' as well, would it not?


Hay and potatoes are commodity crops.

If you mean commodity crop as meaning any agriculture product with a commodity market behind it, then your definition would pretty much include all crops.  You statement of 'the US now has 200 acres under cultivation for commodity crops (corn, wheat, soybeans, etc) for every one acre under cultivation for all fruits and vegetables'makes little sense when you realize that most fruits and vegetables are also considered commodity crops.

In addition, your statement here   'unfortunately, we cannot thrive on HFCS, soy lecithin, and wheat flour' makes even less sense that you first limit your definition to only these three crops, when you later argue that many other crops also qualify.

Or are you being dishonest on purpose?
 
2014-07-16 01:02:05 PM
Meh.

this isn't even a challenge to solve.

The Great Lakes are WAY closer to this than they are to Las Vegas.

Drop out of that stupid treaty with Canada.  Build a canal/pumping stations.

Solved.
 
2014-07-16 01:04:28 PM

Stone Meadow: but that is no reason to presume water cannot be actively pumped into aquifers. Otherwise, fracking wouldn't be possible.


I didn't say it can't be pumped in.

I said it is stupid to pretend it is like is a "hole waiting to be filled".

Fracking isn't storing thousands of gallons under water for future use. It is short term injection of water or a solution to create fractures in the formation to allow hydrocarbons to flow out after the fracking fluid is no longer forced down under pressure.


Stone Meadow: Point being that no only is aquifer recharging possible


Once again, I never said it wasn't possible, I said it is stupid to pretend it is like is a "hole waiting to be filled".

It is even stupider to think it makes sense to pump flood water from the Missippi and the Northern Red River from there to Vega to be pumped into this aquifer hole waiting to be filled.

Stone Meadow: As it is TFA mentions some county in Texas with 1500 wells that had 4-8 million gallons pumped into each one.


Missed that in the article and in the one you posted, where does it say that?
 
2014-07-16 01:12:23 PM

People_are_Idiots: HeadLever: People_are_Idiots: There is an idea my father actually came up with, that'd solve the entire problem of drought in one place, flood in another. It involves building a network of irrigation pipes from flood-prone areas to the drought-stricken areas

And what is going to power the massive pump stations needed to get this water up and over the Continental Divide?  Do you know how expensive it would make this water?

Want to know how I know you are not a water resources engineer?

Want to know how I know you don't know the Romans did this?


The Romans did't.

Whiel their aquifres were bad ass, they were all gravity driven from fairly regular sources fo water. They woudl be of next to no use at managing floods.
 
2014-07-16 01:12:29 PM

People_are_Idiots: Want to know how I know you don't know the Romans did this?


Pump thousands of cubic feet per second of water thousands of feet uphill?  You are right.  I didn't know that Romans were capable of this.  I guess I better start watching Ancient Aliens a bit more.
 
2014-07-16 01:23:27 PM

HeadLever: People_are_Idiots: Want to know how I know you don't know the Romans did this?

Pump thousands of cubic feet per second of water thousands of feet uphill?  You are right.  I didn't know that Romans were capable of this.  I guess I better start watching Ancient Aliens a bit more.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes%27_screw (quite efficient)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_the_Romans_get_water_up_hills_usin g_ aquaducts (Not so efficient)
 
2014-07-16 01:40:27 PM

liam76: Stone Meadow: Rik01: And still, people pour into my city yearly. Traffic has become a nightmare. Decades old citrus groves have been sold and turned into housing complexes. Drainage ditches which used to run with shallow, clear water, like creeks and streams, now run with murky, dark waters, deeper and more foul.

People were saying that about you when you showed up.

No, he is different....


kvinesknows: when the rivers overflow... they pretty much just fark everyone over all along the way to the ocean.

http://www.collegian.com/2013/09/river-flooding-can-be-an-ecological- b enefit/43892/

http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/ASK/floods.html

kvinesknows: logistics smogisttics. getting the water to the aquifer is a few hundred miles from either watershed. not a problem.

Yeah huge problem.

The water doesn;t pop up at one spot where it can be conveniently piped, nor is it a constant rate which is what is reauired to pipe it effectively.

kvinesknows: they are essentially holes waiting to be filled.. yes.....

No. Do you think oil sits in big undeground lakes too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer

An aquifer is an underground layer of water-bearing permeable rock or unconsolidated materials (gravel, sand, or silt) from which groundwater can be extracted using a water well.


What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


morons like you who limit their thinking to what they know as fact are the reason why the aquifer is essentially empty.

YES it is actually just a empty vessel waiting to be filled.  As stated earlier.. it wont be easy.. but it will be a farkton easier than dealing with losing all that land.. and are the cities and everything else that depends on that water.

expand your mind. think outside the box..you might just not feel as stupid as you sound
 
2014-07-16 01:40:52 PM

liam76: Stone Meadow: but that is no reason to presume water cannot be actively pumped into aquifers. Otherwise, fracking wouldn't be possible.

I didn't say it can't be pumped in.

I said it is stupid to pretend it is like is a "hole waiting to be filled".

Fracking isn't storing thousands of gallons under water for future use. It is short term injection of water or a solution to create fractures in the formation to allow hydrocarbons to flow out after the fracking fluid is no longer forced down under pressure.


Stone Meadow: Point being that no only is aquifer recharging possible

Once again, I never said it wasn't possible, I said it is stupid to pretend it is like is a "hole waiting to be filled".

It is even stupider to think it makes sense to pump flood water from the Missippi and the Northern Red River from there to Vega to be pumped into this aquifer hole waiting to be filled.

Stone Meadow: As it is TFA mentions some county in Texas with 1500 wells that had 4-8 million gallons pumped into each one.

Missed that in the article and in the one you posted, where does it say that?


Look...stop digging! (bad pun intended ;))

Both infiltration (as used in Tucson) AND injection pumping are routinely used to recharge aquifers. In fact, as of 5 years ago there were some 1200 aquifer recharging operations listed by the EPA, and some of them are 'holes waiting to be filled'.

And yes, suggesting flood waters could be diverted uphill to replenish the Ogallala to water the grass for range-fed beef is a bit silly, but only because of the direct and indirect economics. The concept itself, of pumping water uphill to store in aquifers is in practice every day.

I did get the source and number of wells incorrect. It's 1600 wells in Dimmit County, and it's in a post up-thread.
 
2014-07-16 01:42:56 PM

Stone Meadow: Both infiltration (as used in Tucson) AND injection pumping are routinely used to recharge aquifers. In fact, as of 5 years ago there were some 1200 aquifer recharging operations listed by the EPA, and some of them are 'holes waiting to be filled'..


Source
 
2014-07-16 01:43:33 PM

Stone Meadow: Stone Meadow: Both infiltration (as used in Tucson) AND injection pumping are routinely used to recharge aquifers. In fact, as of 5 years ago there were some 1200 aquifer recharging operations listed by the EPA, and some of them are 'holes waiting to be filled'..

Source


WTF?

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/aquiferrecharge.cfm
 
2014-07-16 01:43:34 PM

Graffito: kvinesknows: and yet the red river (northern) and the Mississippi flood almost every year... why not divert the excess to the aquifer ?

different watershed


who the fark cares?  you want people to die and land to dry up... or you want to pretend that protecting one watershed from the other is somehow a critically important thing?
 
2014-07-16 01:46:34 PM
Pickens is way ahead of you. He's way ahead of the guys who are at the head of the line you're in.

Not only is he planting windmill farms now to benefit from peak fossil fuel later, but he's also farming the one thing you can farm without water:  electricity.

Crazy like a fox farm.
 
2014-07-16 01:54:37 PM
Subby, a word about that headline. I realize now that "going South" has a metaphoric meaning and should not have been interpreted literally, but when I first read the headline I thought it was about shipping scarce water from Texas to customers in Mexico.

At least my literal version would have been ironic and somewhat funny. I am very disappointed..

Water waters. About to begin they are.

Desert irrigation. It just doesn't work in the medium to long term.
 
2014-07-16 01:55:38 PM
Carp. For "water waters" please read "water wars".

(Damn flood protection. Mumbly grumbly moan groan.)
 
2014-07-16 02:01:07 PM
Water should be regarded as part of the landscape and non-removable as it is vital to all life and everything else you may try to do in any place. . Taking water away is as criminal as taking away the topsoil or forceably transplanting the natives to some alien hell hole.

If anybody asks for me, I'll be up here in Canada pissing in wells to try to keep our continentalist governments from sucking Canada dry to paliate the errors and crimes of the past.

Ça ira, as the French were wont to say. Ça ira.

You only realize what you've got when it's gone.
 
2014-07-16 02:02:48 PM

kvinesknows: morons like you who limit their thinking to what they know as fact are the reason why the aquifer is essentially empty.


That the aquifers have been putting out more than they are taking in is a known fact to people like me for years.

It is morons like you who think it can be fixed with dumb solutions that are the problem.

kvinesknows: YES it is actually just a empty vessel waiting to be filled.


If the wiki entry is above you I really can't fix that level of stupid.


Stone Meadow: Both infiltration (as used in Tucson) AND injection pumping are routinely used to recharge aquifers. In fact, as of 5 years ago there were some 1200 aquifer recharging operations listed by the EPA, and some of them are 'holes waiting to be filled'.


Aquifer recharging doesn't imply mean pumping water in.

Even when they are "pumping water in" they aren't holes waiting to be filled. It required energy, it requires storage due to the rate at which water can be pumped in, it requires monitoring, it requires filtration, and you also have the numerous risks presented in your own link.


Stone Meadow: The concept itself, of pumping water uphill to store in aquifers is in practice every day.


No it isn't.

What we have, everyday, is diverting water to places where it can be more easily absorbed by aquifers. We have some places where water is pumped back in, but they don't pump that in from hundrerds of miles away.

kvinesknows: who the fark cares? you want people to die and land to dry up... or you want to pretend that protecting one watershed from the other is somehow a critically important thing


Great plan dumb dumb, lets just keep using however much water we want, just because we dry out this watershed doesn;t mean we will never dry out another.
 
2014-07-16 02:10:02 PM

liam76: kvinesknows: morons like you who limit their thinking to what they know as fact are the reason why the aquifer is essentially empty.

That the aquifers have been putting out more than they are taking in is a known fact to people like me for years.

It is morons like you who think it can be fixed with dumb solutions that are the problem.

kvinesknows: YES it is actually just a empty vessel waiting to be filled.

If the wiki entry is above you I really can't fix that level of stupid.


Stone Meadow: Both infiltration (as used in Tucson) AND injection pumping are routinely used to recharge aquifers. In fact, as of 5 years ago there were some 1200 aquifer recharging operations listed by the EPA, and some of them are 'holes waiting to be filled'.

Aquifer recharging doesn't imply mean pumping water in.

Even when they are "pumping water in" they aren't holes waiting to be filled. It required energy, it requires storage due to the rate at which water can be pumped in, it requires monitoring, it requires filtration, and you also have the numerous risks presented in your own link.


Stone Meadow: The concept itself, of pumping water uphill to store in aquifers is in practice every day.

No it isn't.

What we have, everyday, is diverting water to places where it can be more easily absorbed by aquifers. We have some places where water is pumped back in, but they don't pump that in from hundrerds of miles away.

kvinesknows: who the fark cares? you want people to die and land to dry up... or you want to pretend that protecting one watershed from the other is somehow a critically important thing

Great plan dumb dumb, lets just keep using however much water we want, just because we dry out this watershed doesn;t mean we will never dry out another.


fark you are dumb

you say there is a problem, yet refuse to even hope for a solution and just want to cry about it.
 
2014-07-16 02:14:29 PM

MisterTweak: Anyone here visit Lake Travis in the last, say, half-decade or so? Not quite as horrific as Lake Mead yet, but heading there. The water level is down by almost 40 feet, and unlike previous droughts, this one isn't short-lived, it's been decreasing steadily for almost a decade, and despite fairly drastic measures, shows little hope of returning to the levels seen over the last 50 years.


Meanwhile, in Austin, people are moving here at the rate of about 3000/month last stat I heard. An already overburdened water supply is getting more and more pressure applied to it every day.

The wife and I are quietly and quickly preparing our escape. Hopefully, we can take advantage of a newcomer and make some decent money on our house when we go.
 
2014-07-16 02:14:51 PM

People_are_Idiots: HeadLever: People_are_Idiots: Want to know how I know you don't know the Romans did this?

Pump thousands of cubic feet per second of water thousands of feet uphill?  You are right.  I didn't know that Romans were capable of this.  I guess I better start watching Ancient Aliens a bit more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes%27_screw (quite efficient)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_the_Romans_get_water_up_hills_usin g_ aquaducts (Not so efficient)


The second sentence of your second link:  the Romans were not able to get water to move uphill in a general sense.

oops, try again.

And screw pumps are decent for low head applications.  Don't forget that these also require power to operate.  Cranking one of these babies by hand isn't going to solve many flooding/drought problems.
 
2014-07-16 02:21:12 PM

brantgoose: Water should be regarded as part of the landscape and non-removable as it is vital to all life and everything else you may try to do in any place.


So everyone on the planet is dead in 2 to 3 days?  Not sure, but I suspect that this plan is not going to have much of a following.

Maybe a few members of vhemt.  Maybe.
 
2014-07-16 02:45:59 PM

kvinesknows: fark you are dumb


Tell me again how aquifers are just holes waiting to be filled.


kvinesknows: you say there is a problem, yet refuse to even hope for a solution and just want to cry about it


Pointing out the glaring flaws with your "solution" that somebody wih a highschool understanding of geology or physiscs would see as a deal breaker isn't refusing to "hope" for a soution.

The only one crying here is you because you don't like how reality infringes upon your unicorn dream fixes.

And rather than "hope" for your magic plans to work, I woudl recommend things that would actually work, like a system to regulate how much water they can takes.
 
2014-07-16 03:57:57 PM

People_are_Idiots: ZeroPly: Your father has obviously never been in an actual flood.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fort+worth+flood&client=firefox-a&rl s= org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=E6z GU_zuAsquyASln4HABQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoATgo&biw=1920&bih=900

My dad's been through 3 (myself, only 2), including the massive flood on 7th Street. Know how they fixed it? Massive Irrigation and levees.


I am giggling uncontrollably at what Texas considers a "massive" flood. I was in St. Louis for the 1993 flood - that was 30,000 square miles of flooded land. We don't consider roads being covered in water a flood.

But even for Forth Worth, containing that water before it can run off would take some very large pipes and a lot of pumping. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that we don't have the engineering to do something like that.
 
2014-07-16 06:12:39 PM

ZeroPly: I am giggling uncontrollably at what Texas considers a "massive" flood. I was in St. Louis for the 1993 flood - that was 30,000 square miles of flooded land.


1949 - Flooded 7th Street, Up to the first floor of Montgomery Wards.
1980's - Flooding took out a trailer park (Levee failed).
1996 - Portland Oregon had massive flooding, that took out an industrial island. Several stores had sandbags up to the roofs due to the flooding.
2001 - Houston flooded with Tropical Storm Allison
2014 - Flash Flooding took out several low-lying roads, cars submerged.

It's not the land mass, it's HOW MUCH in that land mass.
 
2014-07-16 06:50:18 PM

liam76: Stone Meadow: The concept itself, of pumping water uphill to store in aquifers is in practice every day.

No it isn't.

What we have, everyday, is diverting water to places where it can be more easily absorbed by aquifers. We have some places where water is pumped back in, but they don't pump that in from hundrerds of miles away.


Yes it is. Every year Tucson gets 40 billion gallons of water via the CAP canal, and every gallon of it has to pumped from Lake Havasu at 448' elevation more than 2000 vertical feet and more than 300 miles to the terminus at 2548' elevation near Tucson. That's just ONE project.
 
Displayed 210 of 210 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report