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(Anchorage Daily News)   Refinery denies responsibility for chemical spill, claims government is at fault for not telling them it was wrong to shoot holes in waste containment pools   (adn.com) divider line 34
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4628 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2014 at 5:03 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-15 03:08:59 PM
Williams argued in court that during almost all the time that it owned the refinery, the state owned the land-as well as the groundwater - and "never once notified, much less intimated" that sulfolane was a regulated contaminant. Williams says there was no evidence when it sold the refinery in 2004 that sulfolane had moved off the property and that Flint Hills and the state failed to act in a responsible fashion after reports surfaced in the years that followed.

Just another illustration of why we NEED strong regulation in this country. This company is claiming that it didn't know this chemical was a contaminate. The ONLY reason that the owners and managers of this company might have sought to contain it is for the law. Otherwise they didn't really care, because doing so would have impacted profits.

Remember this the next time you hear arguments about corporations being too heavily regulated and ask yourself if we'd be better off without them.
 
2014-07-15 03:31:41 PM
This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.
 
2014-07-15 03:37:32 PM
This has it all: guns, corporate pollution and corporate blame of the government.

www.troll.me
 
2014-07-15 03:43:05 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: This has it all: guns, corporate pollution and corporate blame of the government.

[www.troll.me image 304x221]


And don't forget, our state government is also shelling out millions to "study" how to use this land.  So we have ransacking of the public purse, as well.
 
2014-07-15 05:05:22 PM
I have no problem with drowning those responsible in crude oil.
let them return to fuel.
Soylent fuel.

Fark these planet farkers.
 
2014-07-15 05:11:13 PM

granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.


Eh. I was informed recently that the government is under no obligation to provide its citizens with potable water.
 
2014-07-15 05:12:51 PM

granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.


Yep. That's the problem when the state gets in bed with business at the expense of the state's residents.
 
2014-07-15 05:13:04 PM

vudukungfu: I have no problem with drowning those responsible in crude oil.
let them return to fuel.
Soylent fuel.

Fark these planet farkers.


i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-07-15 05:13:32 PM
i1220.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-15 05:14:48 PM
I'll just start my own corporation, with blackjack and hookers and the belief that those who intentionally poison others should be given free post-birth control.
 
2014-07-15 05:16:52 PM

granolasteak: Because People in power are Stupid: This has it all: guns, corporate pollution and corporate blame of the government.

[www.troll.me image 304x221]

And don't forget, our state government is also shelling out millions to "study" how to use this land.  So we have ransacking of the public purse, as well.


I know both reading and math are hard, but 1/3 of $1,700,000 is not "millions."
 
2014-07-15 05:21:05 PM
iwatchstuff.com

Sometimes shooting a hole in a pool is Justified.
 
2014-07-15 05:21:59 PM

qorkfiend: granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.

Eh. I was informed recently that the government is under no obligation to provide its citizens with potable water.


Ayn Rand at her finest.
 
2014-07-15 05:22:24 PM
when I think of corporations as people I think of them like this guy
blogs.warwick.ac.uk
/"it's not my fault, my parents never set boundaries!"
 
2014-07-15 05:25:59 PM

K-jack: I know both reading and math are hard, but 1/3 of $1,700,000 is not "millions."


Are you counting the subsidies that put that poison there?
 
2014-07-15 05:26:11 PM
We see stories like this every day, and yet Scott Walker wonders why we have a problem with allowing the excavation of 4 square miles of Northern Wisconsin wetlands for iron ore.
 
2014-07-15 05:32:42 PM

granolasteak: So we have ransacking of the public purse, as well.


It's Alaska. the oil companies pay for every thing, even stipends to the citizens, who pay no taxes.
 
2014-07-15 05:41:18 PM
This article sheds light on some grade AAA stupid. The liner, of which the sole purpose is to contain a liquid, was deliberately destroyed by the supervising operator of the facility the liners were a part of?

cue jackiechan.jpeg
 
2014-07-15 05:47:46 PM
I got interviewed about this as a chemistry expert.

Flint Hills is citing a study that claims the concentration at which sulfolane starts posing a health risk is higher than what's currently there.

Thing is, they paid a think-tank (rather than an academic research group) to produce the study, and said "study" was a literature review of a bunch of other peoples' experiments.  They provided an equation to show where they got their number from, but the equation turned out to be gibberish.  The units don't balance, and there's one term they don't define or provide a value for.

Google suggests the article hasn't been published yet.
 
2014-07-15 06:08:22 PM

Bondith: I got interviewed about this as a chemistry expert.

Flint Hills is citing a study that claims the concentration at which sulfolane starts posing a health risk is higher than what's currently there.

Thing is, they paid a think-tank (rather than an academic research group) to produce the study, and said "study" was a literature review of a bunch of other peoples' experiments.  They provided an equation to show where they got their number from, but the equation turned out to be gibberish.  The units don't balance, and there's one term they don't define or provide a value for.

Google suggests the article hasn't been published yet.


Seems to be corporate SOP these days. If the science isn't on your side just get some hired guns at a think tank to make some up for you.
 
2014-07-15 06:24:51 PM

granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.



No they aren't.   The refinery is providing water to those affected.   They installed water holding tanks and take care of the deliveries in most cases.*

While that might seem a bit odd, trucked water is fairly common in Alaska, where some people either decided wells are too expensive or at too high of a risk of reaching poor quality water due to minerals in the area.


The refinery is still responsible whether they are refining or not,  they shut down refinery operations in what is (in my opinion) a political statement and have said they will not sell the refinery until costs are known.  But either way, they are still being held responsible.

*Some people elected to get paid a large lump sum instead of having water delivered to them for free in perpetuity.
 
2014-07-15 06:43:23 PM
See? Because of me they have a warning.
 
2014-07-15 06:51:47 PM
When making profit: "Government regulation is killing our business. We demand it cease"
When dealing with losses; "Your lack of Government regulation is killing our business. We demand the public pays"
 
2014-07-15 06:53:28 PM

fusillade762: Bondith: I got interviewed about this as a chemistry expert.

Flint Hills is citing a study that claims the concentration at which sulfolane starts posing a health risk is higher than what's currently there.

Thing is, they paid a think-tank (rather than an academic research group) to produce the study, and said "study" was a literature review of a bunch of other peoples' experiments.  They provided an equation to show where they got their number from, but the equation turned out to be gibberish.  The units don't balance, and there's one term they don't define or provide a value for.

Google suggests the article hasn't been published yet.

Seems to be corporate SOP these days. If the science isn't on your side just get some hired guns at a think tank to make some up for you.


So think tanks do nothing but push a pro business agenda.
 
2014-07-15 06:54:11 PM

Baradium: granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.


No they aren't.   The refinery is providing water to those affected.   They installed water holding tanks and take care of the deliveries in most cases.*

While that might seem a bit odd, trucked water is fairly common in Alaska, where some people either decided wells are too expensive or at too high of a risk of reaching poor quality water due to minerals in the area.


The refinery is still responsible whether they are refining or not,  they shut down refinery operations in what is (in my opinion) a political statement and have said they will not sell the refinery until costs are known.  But either way, they are still being held responsible.

*Some people elected to get paid a large lump sum instead of having water delivered to them for free in perpetuity.


Now the Flint Hills should be able to sue the previous owners, since apparently they were the ones that caused tg re contanimation.
 
2014-07-15 07:04:55 PM
Bonus: Flint Hills, the refinery's owner, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Koch Industries.
 
2014-07-15 07:09:14 PM

cretinbob: granolasteak: So we have ransacking of the public purse, as well.

It's Alaska. the oil companies pay for every thing, even stipends to the citizens, who pay no taxes.


It's Alaska. The citizens pay for everything by selling their oil to oil companies and putting the profits into a general fund for government, and a permanent fund, which they invest in the stock market to pay a dividend.
 
2014-07-15 07:31:13 PM

mcreadyblue: qorkfiend: granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.

Eh. I was informed recently that the government is under no obligation to provide its citizens with potable water.

Ayn Rand at her finest.


No, that would involve people moving to a remote location where people can do as they wish... oh, crap.
 
2014-07-15 07:59:41 PM

Bondith: I got interviewed about this as a chemistry expert.

Flint Hills is citing a study that claims the concentration at which sulfolane starts posing a health risk is higher than what's currently there.

Thing is, they paid a think-tank (rather than an academic research group) to produce the study, and said "study" was a literature review of a bunch of other peoples' experiments.  They provided an equation to show where they got their number from, but the equation turned out to be gibberish.  The units don't balance, and there's one term they don't define or provide a value for.

Google suggests the article hasn't been published yet.


Toxnet has a compilation of hazards as far as they're known. Deadly rates for wildlife are about a 1000 times higher than what the refineries are proposing, but there hasn't been a all that much study on other forms of toxicity.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+ 1 22
 
2014-07-15 09:40:34 PM
The solution to this is tax cuts for the wealthy.
 
2014-07-15 09:44:39 PM

Baradium: granolasteak: This whole situation is such a clusterfark.  People are really suffering from not having drinkable water, and nobody is doing anything to fix the situation .

In fact, the state LET this company close down this refinery and walk away from the situation.  Just left the farking groundwater a disaster.


No they aren't.   The refinery is providing water to those affected.   They installed water holding tanks and take care of the deliveries in most cases.*

While that might seem a bit odd, trucked water is fairly common in Alaska, where some people either decided wells are too expensive or at too high of a risk of reaching poor quality water due to minerals in the area.


The refinery is still responsible whether they are refining or not,  they shut down refinery operations in what is (in my opinion) a political statement and have said they will not sell the refinery until costs are known.  But either way, they are still being held responsible.

*Some people elected to get paid a large lump sum instead of having water delivered to them for free in perpetuity.


I LIVE here.  I LIVE here.

What's being affected is more than just tap water.  It's how we grow our food.  We can't use the shiat for water they are so generously providing to water our enormous gardens.  We can't fill our holding tanks and count on having enough next week.

THEY farked this situation up, and THEY think that giving people a fraction of access to clean water should make the victims of this situation bow down and thank them.

Don't tell me what's normal in Alaska.  That's like saying a tanker spill is okay, because the oil companies provided some soap and a few free clean puffins.
 
2014-07-15 10:04:39 PM
granolasteak:

I LIVE here.  I LIVE here.

What's being affected is more than just tap water.  It's how we grow our food.  We can't use the shiat for water they are so generously providing to water our enormous gardens.  We can't fill our holding tanks and count on having enough next week.

THEY farked this situation up, and THEY think that giving people a fraction of access to clean water should make the victims of this situation bow down and thank them.

Don't tell me what's normal in Alaska.  That's like saying a tanker spill is okay, because the oil companies provided some soap and a few free clean puffins.



You know, you may pay attention when people seem to know local details and think that just *maybe* you aren't the only one that lives there, hmm?

I'm not going to say it's a perfect solution, my friend who was dealing with the water company was having issues because they were lazy and not coming as often as they should have.   But the point was that people weren't being left with no water and Flint Hills isn't off the hook.

I can say the same thing about you about what's "normal in Alaska" since I live in the area as well.

And sorry, but I don't see many enourmous gardens in the affected area when I'm going through North Pole.   Nevermind that with the wettest June and possibly July on record, your garden should be doing just fine without watering.  I know it's played hell on me trying to get hay dried and baled anyway.

Again, my point is that it's not that people have no water at all.  And yes, people hauling water IS normal in Alaska.  I know plenty of people who do it on a regular basis.  Although I was trying to point out that there is an infrastructure in place to provide the water is all.
 
2014-07-15 10:08:22 PM
granolasteak:
Don't tell me what's normal in Alaska.  That's like saying a tanker spill is okay, because the oil companies provided some soap and a few free clean puffins.

And yes I know that it's not always this wet.      The point is that shutting down the refinery had nothing to do with not having to clean up after themselves (which is another thing that annoys me about them shutting it down in the first place).

I don't think they should have the option to provide city water either.   I know I'd much rather have a well than city water so I don't think them expanding the system should be on the table.   Clean it all up.
 
2014-07-15 11:02:32 PM

Baradium: granolasteak:
Don't tell me what's normal in Alaska.  That's like saying a tanker spill is okay, because the oil companies provided some soap and a few free clean puffins.

And yes I know that it's not always this wet.      The point is that shutting down the refinery had nothing to do with not having to clean up after themselves (which is another thing that annoys me about them shutting it down in the first place).

I don't think they should have the option to provide city water either.   I know I'd much rather have a well than city water so I don't think them expanding the system should be on the table.   Clean it all up.


Okay, I think we're on the same page...in a way.  Personally, I don't think they should have been allowed to shut down at all...they should have repurposed what they could and continued to pay those employees even if that meant giving them jobs eating cheetos.  People losing their jobs and our water supply getting farked combined with huge salaries for the CEOs of this organization and no jail time....ugh.

If I took a gallon of gasoline and purposely poured it in the Chena, god knows I'd be faced with fines up the wazooo.  But these bozos get off with nothing so far.  The little they've done is not enough.  And it should be a priority for everyone to see that something as precious as the water table is given first and last priority.

Part of your earlier writing seemed to indicate that a little holding tank here or there is enough.  It's not.  Until the water table is restored to the previous level of cleanliness, then Flint Hills is still guilty and should still be on the hook for everything that makes life harder for folks living in that area.

/I don't live in the NP area, and it doesn't really matter if you see huge gardens...they're there.
//We haul our own water.
 
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