Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Business Journals)   Mass Christian college to Obama Administration: We want an exemption from your proposed law so we can discriminate against hiring gays and lesbians. New England Association of School and College: So, about that accreditation of yours   (bizjournals.com) divider line 253
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

8958 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2014 at 3:25 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



253 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-07-15 05:57:36 PM  

Bawdy George: So misunderstanding = hate?


No, but telling someone that an innate, fundamental aspect of their identity is an offense against God = hate. As much as Christians would like to avoid admitting it. Oh, wait, I forgot - "love the sinner, hate the sin" makes it all better!

Right?


When you don't believe it's an aspect of their identity anymore than being an alcoholic would be, than no it's not.
 
2014-07-15 06:00:19 PM  

ciberido: Callous: And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

Here's the thing.  We don't really CARE whether you hate us or not.  We care what you do to us.  You can hate, hate, hate your neighbor across the street for his black skin, or love, love, love him because you think he's the bee's knees.  Doesn't matter.  What does matter is whether you burn a cross on his lawn, or slash his tires.  If you do, then you are an asshole and you need to be stopped.

And when the police come to arrest you for setting his house on fire, you crying, "There is no hate or malice involved!  Some of my best friends are black!" isn't going to matter.  You're still a farking arsonist, and you still are going to rot in jail.


Then why is "NO H8TE!!!!!!" the rallying cry to oppose any anti-gay laws?  If you don't care, why is it the cornerstone of your whole argument against those laws?
 
2014-07-15 06:01:21 PM  

Callous: Bawdy George: So misunderstanding = hate?


No, but telling someone that an innate, fundamental aspect of their identity is an offense against God = hate. As much as Christians would like to avoid admitting it. Oh, wait, I forgot - "love the sinner, hate the sin" makes it all better!

Right?

When you don't believe it's an aspect of their identity anymore than being an alcoholic would be, than no it's not.


Keep going with that, it's certainly working out for you.
 
2014-07-15 06:04:41 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


Is this the same bible where Lot offered his daughters to an angry mob?   Is this the bible where daughter's *seduce* their father and become pregnant by him?  Forgive me if I don't want my tax dollars supporting every cockamamie, farked up belief system that some misguided fool falls into.
 
2014-07-15 06:05:02 PM  

ciberido: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...:  When they're family or friends, I try to help them reduce the (secular) damage to their own lives. If they want to change, I support them in that. (How to change being a felon doesn't make sense, but it does on the first two.) Their souls aren't mine to judge.

So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?

If you cannot grasp the difference between something two consenting adults do together and something a criminal inflicts upon an unwilling victim, then you are not fit to participate in this conversation.


You are the one that said you didn't believe in sin.  Sin is merely another term for wrong behavior.  Clearly rape and murder are not on the same level as something two consenting adults do.  However drug abuse and alcoholism is something that a consenting adult does.  So you would approve if they wanted to continue being a junkie or alcoholic?
 
2014-07-15 06:09:03 PM  
Grand_Moff_Joseph - ...if employers were smart, they'd refuse to hire individuals from unaccredited "universities", since they can't be 100% sure that they received an adequate education.

I have spent over 30 years working with college grads from every walk of higher education, and I have not seen anything that proves 100% that any of them received an adequate education. Thanks to my last job, I doubt there is a college out there that can offer 50% assurance.

/I am sorry, but when I have to tell a person with three degrees (one of them in computer sciences) on their wall that, since they unplugged everything on their laptop to take it home, and have returned and want sound again, they have to re-insert the cords they had unplugged...
//I will say it again, this person had a degree in computer sciences
///And for all those who might wish to say that one person does not a complete picture of higher education make, I will say it again:  she unplugged the audio cord and could not figure out why she had no sound the next day. This is something I had figured out when I was 4 years of age and wanted to exchange speakers on my record player. And this person was graduated from an institution of higher learning with a degree in the very device I was having to educate her on how to do the most basic things with!
//// yep, ended on a preposition and overused slashes... just one of the dumb things we non-college grads do on a daily basis.... well, that and fix all the crap ruined by the grads...
 
2014-07-15 06:09:11 PM  

Copper Spork: netizencain: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Establishment means they can't start their own religion. It does not mean they can't enforce someone else's religion. All it means is that you are free to choose how to worship Jesus Christ, whether you are a Catholic, Protestant or Evangelical.


That's a silly reading of the Establishment Clause given that there were already Established CHurches in several of the states at the time of the adoption of the Constitution so if the delegates had wanted Congress to be able to mandate a national church they had existing ones to choose from and non Christian churches they could have empowered Congress to choose as well.  Given their knowledge of the evils of the wars and persecutions caused by Established Churches in Europe that were still in common memory at the time of the Constitutional Convention, the delegates expressly chose to prevent such evils from infecting the new secular nation they were creating and left religious beliefs to the conscious of the individual and not to the body politic.
 
2014-07-15 06:10:49 PM  

Callous: ciberido: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...:  When they're family or friends, I try to help them reduce the (secular) damage to their own lives. If they want to change, I support them in that. (How to change being a felon doesn't make sense, but it does on the first two.) Their souls aren't mine to judge.

So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?

If you cannot grasp the difference between something two consenting adults do together and something a criminal inflicts upon an unwilling victim, then you are not fit to participate in this conversation.

You are the one that said you didn't believe in sin.  Sin is merely another term for wrong behavior.  Clearly rape and murder are not on the same level as something two consenting adults do.  However drug abuse and alcoholism is something that a consenting adult does.  So you would approve if they wanted to continue being a junkie or alcoholic?


Sin is defined as "offense against God". You can't even get apologetics right.
 
2014-07-15 06:11:42 PM  

kbronsito: My brother went a similar route in law school. The farking law school library (of all places) was not accessible to wheelchairs. He didn't want to sue them, only for them to correct the problem. Their attempt at reasonable accommodation was to have library staff run in and out to get him the books he needed, instead of spending money for the upgrades. They figured he'd graduate before the lawsuit could be completed and he'd lose interest. Several professors even offered to represent him but he felt they were just looking to fark over the dean to settle old scores rather than actually sincere about accessibility. So he saw an announcement about visitors to the University from the American Bar association and sent a nice note to the Dean explaining that he wasn't going to waste his time suing the university, when it was easier to tell the ABA what they were doing. If they lost their accreditation it would harm him because he'd have to switch schools... but it would hurt the school a lot more. Magically, the money to add a ramp and replace the elevator that was always broken appeared.


I'm going to use this on the next "why is college so expensive thread." I'm sure it's scheduled for tomorrow.
 
2014-07-15 06:13:05 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: Gunny Highway: Magorn: Boerne SHOULD have been controlling in the Hobby Lobby case but wasn't so where we are now is anybody's guess

The backside of another dune.  Who knows what is on the other side.

[img.tfd.com image 600x338]

Sandworms. Lots and lots of sandworms. Wormsign even the likes of which even God has never seen.


well ok, they don't have to hire rug munchers and fudge packers, but they don't get any federal money either. Accreditation should be based solely on the academic program. stop forcing the homosexual agenda on every single group, organization and business. don't like them go else ware.
 
2014-07-15 06:15:04 PM  
Let me start by saying that I've cut out what Callous responded to for space purposes and formatting clarity. Go ahead and read them in context.

Callous: If you don't believe in any behavior being wrong I can't even have an intelligent conversation with you.


I believe in right and wrong, but sin and wrong aren't the same. You may use them interchangeably, but sin carries a strong religious connotation that keeps a lot of people from using it.

Callous: So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?


Good point. Add "and prevent them from doing (secular) damage to the lives of others" to the end of the first sentence. Anyway, you brought up being a felon in talking about hiring practices. Since I assumed you weren't calling being gay and being a child rapist or serial killer similar, I thought you meant someone who'd reformed.

Callous: Yes people who believe that someone is engaging in wrong behavior often try to stop that from occurring.

[Quote deleted]

So you've never seen it happen but because you have heard stories of it happening to someone else it must be true of all Christians?

Stop painting with such a wide brush or don't be surprised when someone says that all homosexuals behave like the worst examples they can find.


They're trying to stop behavior that can't possibly be hurting anyone but the person doing it. AND when the person doing it very likely doesn't even believe that it's wrong. There is no secular damage done by being gay.

And I'm talking about what I've seen happen. I've heard a friend's parents tell him that he has to stop being gay or he'll go to hell. (I didn't believe him that he couldn't go home without hearing it. Since they did it when there was company, I'm inclined to believe him now.) I've heard sermons calling some of the people I care for most in this world abominations. I've seen large political campaigns to prevent them from being able to marry (not just Christians there, but also many Christians).

And as for me painting with too big a brush, this started (or rather, I got included) when I said that not all Christians hate homosexuals.and I haven't yet argued with your change from "not all" to "very few".

Let me repeat - whatever the Christians in question FEEL, they ACT as though being gay makes a person less human. So when we say that they hate homosexuals, we're not doing it for nothing. That's the point I was trying and apparently failing to make.
 
2014-07-15 06:18:48 PM  

Bawdy George: Callous: ciberido: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...:  When they're family or friends, I try to help them reduce the (secular) damage to their own lives. If they want to change, I support them in that. (How to change being a felon doesn't make sense, but it does on the first two.) Their souls aren't mine to judge.

So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?

If you cannot grasp the difference between something two consenting adults do together and something a criminal inflicts upon an unwilling victim, then you are not fit to participate in this conversation.

You are the one that said you didn't believe in sin.  Sin is merely another term for wrong behavior.  Clearly rape and murder are not on the same level as something two consenting adults do.  However drug abuse and alcoholism is something that a consenting adult does.  So you would approve if they wanted to continue being a junkie or alcoholic?

Sin is defined as "offense against God". You can't even get apologetics right.


Now who's picking and choosing?
 
2014-07-15 06:23:13 PM  

Callous: Bawdy George: Callous: ciberido: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...:  When they're family or friends, I try to help them reduce the (secular) damage to their own lives. If they want to change, I support them in that. (How to change being a felon doesn't make sense, but it does on the first two.) Their souls aren't mine to judge.

So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?

If you cannot grasp the difference between something two consenting adults do together and something a criminal inflicts upon an unwilling victim, then you are not fit to participate in this conversation.

You are the one that said you didn't believe in sin.  Sin is merely another term for wrong behavior.  Clearly rape and murder are not on the same level as something two consenting adults do.  However drug abuse and alcoholism is something that a consenting adult does.  So you would approve if they wanted to continue being a junkie or alcoholic?

Sin is defined as "offense against God". You can't even get apologetics right.

Now who's picking and choosing?


I am. I picked a demonstrably false statement within your weak apologetic argument and chose to point it out.
 
2014-07-15 06:24:31 PM  

Callous: ciberido: serial_crusher: Shouldn't an accreditation board make their decisions based on the actual quality of the education students get, not the assholeness of the assholes running the place?

Funny thing is, if you want to be accredited, there's a list of rules you have to agree to follow.  Let's take a look at rule 11.5, shall we?

11.5  The institution adheres to non-discriminatory policies and practices in recruitment, admissions, employment, evaluation, disciplinary action, and advancement. It fosters an atmosphere within the institutional community that respects and supports people of diverse characteristics and backgrounds.

So they can't refuse to hire someone who fails a drug test or has a criminal record?  Oh they can because it's accepted that crime and drug use are wrong behaviors.  To a Christian homosexuality is wrong.


Christians are free to think that homosexuality is wrong.  No one is arresting them or confiscating their property.  However, they cannot use my tax dollars to discriminate against people whom they consider to be "wrong."   These *wrong* people are living their lives legally.  They have every right to pursue love and sex  Our society guarantees the right of people to not be constrained by the religion of others.

Our society also guarantees the right of citizens to call out bigots as they see them.
 
2014-07-15 06:33:40 PM  

DrunkWithImpotence: It's analogous to yanking someone's medical license because they are in the KKK.


I don't think that I could trust the medical care of an african american to someone who was in the KKK.  It is a terrorist organization based on hatred of certain groups of people.  If I were on the state board I couldn't issue a medical license to someone who openly advocates hatred of humans.
 
2014-07-15 06:34:10 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: And as for me painting with too big a brush, this started (or rather, I got included) when I said that not all Christians hate homosexuals.and I haven't yet argued with your change from "not all" to "very few".

Let me repeat - whatever the Christians in question FEEL, they ACT as though being gay makes a person less human. So when we say that they hate homosexuals, we're not doing it for nothing. That's the point I was trying and apparently failing to make.


Telling someone that wrong behavior is wrong does not imply that someone is less human.  Most Christians do not believe that homosexuality is a facet of one's personality and therefore is merely another wrong behavior to be discontinued.  Most see it no differently than one would view drug addiction or alcoholism.  Yes there are some that believe it's some kind of mortal sin that will keep one out of heaven.  I have heard a pastor from a pulpit say the words, "There will be no homosexuals in heaven".  He went on to clarify that he meant unrepentant homosexuals when the reaction from the congregation was clearly negative..  But I have never heard anyone say anything about it making anyone less than human.
 
2014-07-15 06:35:13 PM  

Callous: ciberido: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...:  When they're family or friends, I try to help them reduce the (secular) damage to their own lives. If they want to change, I support them in that. (How to change being a felon doesn't make sense, but it does on the first two.) Their souls aren't mine to judge.

So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?

If you cannot grasp the difference between something two consenting adults do together and something a criminal inflicts upon an unwilling victim, then you are not fit to participate in this conversation.

You are the one that said you didn't believe in sin.  Sin is merely another term for wrong behavior.  Clearly rape and murder are not on the same level as something two consenting adults do.  However drug abuse and alcoholism is something that a consenting adult does.  So you would approve if they wanted to continue being a junkie or alcoholic?


He's not the one who said that. Anyway, "sin" has a strong religious component, whether you specifically mean to include it or not. So no, I don't believe in sin, but I certainly do believe in right and wrong.

And, in fact, yes I would approve of someone who wants to be a drug addict or an alcoholic doing it, so long as they have it under control. If they can't keep from hurting themselves, they need someone to try to convince them to get it under control. If they hurt others, they need to be forced to stop. But a functional drunk? They're free to do that, as far as I'm concerned.  A functional drug addict should probably be strongly encouraged to stop for legal reasons.
 
2014-07-15 06:35:16 PM  

genner: The important thing to remember is that gay marriage doesn't affect you...... as long you don't run a bakery.....or a school.


As long as you don't take federal money to run your crappy god bothering school, you mean. These clowns are totally free not to hire gays, but they can't get federal money if they do.
 
2014-07-15 06:38:07 PM  

Callous: Most Christians do not believe that homosexuality is a facet of one's personality


Okay, but they're wrong. "Don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" is just a way for bigots to justify their bigotry.
 
2014-07-15 06:39:04 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


Instead of being concerned about whether they are "standing up for their beliefs", be more concerned about what those beliefs are.
 
2014-07-15 06:39:07 PM  

Graffito: Callous: ciberido: serial_crusher: Shouldn't an accreditation board make their decisions based on the actual quality of the education students get, not the assholeness of the assholes running the place?

Funny thing is, if you want to be accredited, there's a list of rules you have to agree to follow.  Let's take a look at rule 11.5, shall we?

11.5  The institution adheres to non-discriminatory policies and practices in recruitment, admissions, employment, evaluation, disciplinary action, and advancement. It fosters an atmosphere within the institutional community that respects and supports people of diverse characteristics and backgrounds.

So they can't refuse to hire someone who fails a drug test or has a criminal record?  Oh they can because it's accepted that crime and drug use are wrong behaviors.  To a Christian homosexuality is wrong.

Christians are free to think that homosexuality is wrong.  No one is arresting them or confiscating their property.  However, they cannot use my tax dollars to discriminate against people whom they consider to be "wrong."   These *wrong* people are living their lives legally.  They have every right to pursue love and sex  Our society guarantees the right of people to not be constrained by the religion of others.

Our society also guarantees the right of citizens to call out bigots as they see them.


And if you read the rest of my comments you will see that I said precisely what you said.
 
2014-07-15 06:39:34 PM  
Discrimination against others: Not yours, religionists.
 
2014-07-15 06:40:06 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: Most Christians do not believe that homosexuality is a facet of one's personality

Okay, but they're wrong. "Don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" is just a way for bigots to justify their bigotry.


No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person.
 
2014-07-15 06:41:53 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Callous: ciberido: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...:  When they're family or friends, I try to help them reduce the (secular) damage to their own lives. If they want to change, I support them in that. (How to change being a felon doesn't make sense, but it does on the first two.) Their souls aren't mine to judge.

So if they wish to continue being a serial killer or child rapist you are okay with that because who are you to judge?

If you cannot grasp the difference between something two consenting adults do together and something a criminal inflicts upon an unwilling victim, then you are not fit to participate in this conversation.

You are the one that said you didn't believe in sin.  Sin is merely another term for wrong behavior.  Clearly rape and murder are not on the same level as something two consenting adults do.  However drug abuse and alcoholism is something that a consenting adult does.  So you would approve if they wanted to continue being a junkie or alcoholic?

He's not the one who said that. Anyway, "sin" has a strong religious component, whether you specifically mean to include it or not. So no, I don't believe in sin, but I certainly do believe in right and wrong.

And, in fact, yes I would approve of someone who wants to be a drug addict or an alcoholic doing it, so long as they have it under control. If they can't keep from hurting themselves, they need someone to try to convince them to get it under control. If they hurt others, they need to be forced to stop. But a functional drunk? They're free to do that, as far as I'm concerned.  A functional drug addict should probably be strongly encouraged to stop for legal reasons.


There is no such thing as a addict that "has it under control".  If they are addicted it controls them.
 
2014-07-15 06:43:01 PM  

Callous: patrick767: Callous:
And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

Hate may be too strong of a word for many people. On the other hand I call bullshiat on most of the anti-gay Christians who claim to love gay people. They love to spout "hate the sin, love the sinner", but in many Christians' attitudes toward and treatment of gay people, I don't see anything resembling love. Actions count a hell of a lot more than words. Besides, who can love someone without accepting them? Who we choose to love is an integral part of who we are as a person. If we can't accept that aspect of someone's life, then I think it's bullshiat to claim we love them.

Do you hate alcoholics?  How about drug addicts?  Any of your friends or relatives have a criminal record?

You can object to the behavior and not hate the person.  Love doesn't require accepting everything about someone.  Why is it so black or white with you?


Why would you or anyone else equate homosexuality with alcoholism, drug addiction, and criminal actions? It's a piss poor comparison. Homosexuality is not an addiction or something harmful, and it's a fundamental part of a person's identity. Alcoholism, drug addiction, and most criminal acts are self-destructive and frequently harmful to others.

You don't have to accept absolutely everything someone does, but I'd argue that you do have to accept who they are as a person in order to love them. Sexuality is an incredibly important aspect of our lives.
 
2014-07-15 06:44:57 PM  
Why do people want companies, organizations, and other entities to hire people who may work to go against everything those groups believe in?  Should a mom-and-pop store have to hire someone who robbed them a dozen times before because not doing so would be discriminating against criminals?  Should the military be expected to bring on people who protested wars in the past and will ignore orders once enlisted?  Should a mosque be forced to hire someone with a Mohammed tattoo on his or her face?

I'm not saying that all homosexuals would act in such a way, but when you are concerned that a hiring is counter to the message of your work, you should have every right to deny employment, no exceptions.

Besides, would you want to work for someone who doesn't want you around anyway?
 
2014-07-15 06:47:50 PM  

Callous: No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person


Right, a cop out. "Gay people are cool with us as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay."

Gee golly, what a deal for gays! How generous of the religious to allow gays to exist in our modern society as long as they conform to the rules that please the religious. See gays, what's the problem? Be gay, just don't, be gay. See, we're not bigots! We good? We good.
 
2014-07-15 06:48:03 PM  

Callous: I May Be Crazy But...: And as for me painting with too big a brush, this started (or rather, I got included) when I said that not all Christians hate homosexuals.and I haven't yet argued with your change from "not all" to "very few".

Let me repeat - whatever the Christians in question FEEL, they ACT as though being gay makes a person less human. So when we say that they hate homosexuals, we're not doing it for nothing. That's the point I was trying and apparently failing to make.

Telling someone that wrong behavior is wrong does not imply that someone is less human.  Most Christians do not believe that homosexuality is a facet of one's personality and therefore is merely another wrong behavior to be discontinued.  Most see it no differently than one would view drug addiction or alcoholism.  Yes there are some that believe it's some kind of mortal sin that will keep one out of heaven.  I have heard a pastor from a pulpit say the words, "There will be no homosexuals in heaven".  He went on to clarify that he meant unrepentant homosexuals when the reaction from the congregation was clearly negative..  But I have never heard anyone say anything about it making anyone less than human.


And I've heard homosexuals called an abomination from the pulpit. Not just a sin - an abomination. Even if you just call it a sin there's only so many time a person can be told that they're going to hell before they start to take it personally.

And then there's how the people in question act. They don't stick to the pulpit (to call it a sin or more). They say that gay folks shouldn't be allowed to marry. I think I'd be well justified if I said that someone who told me I wasn't allowed to marry my wife was denying some of by basic humanity.

Mostly, they aren't bad people. I'll even go along with you when you say that most of them don't hate gays. But please try to see it from the side of the gay people while you tell us to see it from the side of the Christians.
 
2014-07-15 06:48:11 PM  

Callous: Bawdy George: Callous: Bawdy George: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...: Not all Very few Christians hate gays.

But many believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Some don't.  There are many many different Christian sects with different beliefs.

And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 236x460]
Au contraire

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

Callous: Hint, Christ changed A LOT of the rules. Homosexuality isn't one of them though. Actually Christ never addressed the topic, but Paul did. That has left a lot of room for debate among Christians but the prevailing opinion is that it's a sin.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

If you have a point I have no idea what it is.  A cartoon from a politically slanted source is hardly a point.


I thought that the cartoon sounded much like you. All this hate the sin - love the sinner business sounds like you think you are doing homosexuals some great favor, but there's no way that calling someone's identity wrong or sinful can come across as anything other than douchebaggery.

Try to imagine someone telling you constantly how much they "tolerate" you and how much they disapprove of your behavior, but they still "love" you while constantly filing lawsuits to make your life harder.  I doubt that you would be as patient and gracious as most gay people have been.

I get that you have issues around homosexuality.  You claim that these are religious beliefs, but you have to admit that religion has long been an excuse for misogyny and racial bigotry so it's easy for me to draw parallels with bigotry against gays.

What do we do with a religion that advocates for unequal treatment of citizens?
 
2014-07-15 06:49:33 PM  

Callous: There is no such thing as a addict that "has it under control".  If they are addicted it controls them.


That's a discussion for another time.
 
2014-07-15 06:50:21 PM  

patrick767: Callous: patrick767: Callous:
And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

Hate may be too strong of a word for many people. On the other hand I call bullshiat on most of the anti-gay Christians who claim to love gay people. They love to spout "hate the sin, love the sinner", but in many Christians' attitudes toward and treatment of gay people, I don't see anything resembling love. Actions count a hell of a lot more than words. Besides, who can love someone without accepting them? Who we choose to love is an integral part of who we are as a person. If we can't accept that aspect of someone's life, then I think it's bullshiat to claim we love them.

Do you hate alcoholics?  How about drug addicts?  Any of your friends or relatives have a criminal record?

You can object to the behavior and not hate the person.  Love doesn't require accepting everything about someone.  Why is it so black or white with you?

Why would you or anyone else equate homosexuality with alcoholism, drug addiction, and criminal actions? It's a piss poor comparison. Homosexuality is not an addiction or something harmful, and it's a fundamental part of a person's identity. Alcoholism, drug addiction, and most criminal acts are self-destructive and frequently harmful to others.


Christians view homosexuality the same way as they believe it destroys/damages one spiritually just like every other sin.

You don't have to accept absolutely everything someone does, but I'd argue that you do have to accept who they are as a person in order to love them. Sexuality is an incredibly important aspect of our lives.

I have heard pedophiles make that same argument but I'm at work so I'm not going to look up or link to an example.
 
2014-07-15 06:51:55 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person

Right, a cop out. "Gay people are cool with us as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay."

Gee golly, what a deal for gays! How generous of the religious to allow gays to exist in our modern society as long as they conform to the rules that please the religious. See gays, what's the problem? Be gay, just don't, be gay. See, we're not bigots! We good? We good.


The vacuous arguments Christian apologists come up with to justify their homophobic bigotry would be kind of amusing if they weren't so sad.
 
2014-07-15 06:52:09 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person

Right, a cop out. "Gay people are cool with us as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay."

Gee golly, what a deal for gays! How generous of the religious to allow gays to exist in our modern society as long as they conform to the rules that please the religious. See gays, what's the problem? Be gay, just don't, be gay. See, we're not bigots! We good? We good.


Not a cop out.  To them it's merely a behavior and not a facet of one's personality.  So not engaging in homosexual behavior is no different than not taking another drink.
 
2014-07-15 06:53:16 PM  

Callous: I have heard pedophiles make that same argument


Ah, there it is. Bigot go-to #48. Let that bigot flag fly!
 
2014-07-15 06:54:27 PM  

Callous: To them it's merely a behavior and not a facet of one's personality.


Sure, but they're wrong. And, you know, bigots.
 
2014-07-15 06:57:42 PM  

Callous: Christians view homosexuality the same way as they believe it destroys/damages one spiritually just like every other sin.


That right there. THAT is the difference I've been groping for. In their view, homosexuality damages someone spiritually.

When you believe that this life is fleeting and the afterlife is forever, it makes sense to try to change it. When the person you're trying to change doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin, believes in a whole different afterlife, or doesn't believe in an afterlife at all, what you're actually doing (no matter what you believe or mean to do) is trying to stop them living their life as best they can.

Note that I use "you" because it made the pronouns easier.
 
2014-07-15 06:58:12 PM  

Callous: Bawdy George: So misunderstanding = hate?


No, but telling someone that an innate, fundamental aspect of their identity is an offense against God = hate. As much as Christians would like to avoid admitting it. Oh, wait, I forgot - "love the sinner, hate the sin" makes it all better!

Right?

When you don't believe it's an aspect of their identity anymore than being an alcoholic would be, than no it's not.


Is that like how Hobby Lobby believes that IUDs are abortiofacients despite what the Am. College of OB/GYN says?
 
2014-07-15 06:59:03 PM  

Bawdy George: Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person

Right, a cop out. "Gay people are cool with us as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay."

Gee golly, what a deal for gays! How generous of the religious to allow gays to exist in our modern society as long as they conform to the rules that please the religious. See gays, what's the problem? Be gay, just don't, be gay. See, we're not bigots! We good? We good.

The vacuous arguments Christian apologists come up with to justify their homophobic bigotry would be kind of amusing if they weren't so sad.


Where have I apologized for anything or assigned right or wrong to their beliefs?  I have merely tried to relay them as accurately as I understand them.

Although I do find it amusing that you cannot engage in the conversation with out screaming "H8ter!!!!".  And homophobic implies fear, I have never seen that.  It's another accusation that is intended to stifle conversation and force conformity of opinion.  Either that or it's another demonstration of the point I made above about you not understanding them while screaming and crying that they don't understand you.
 
2014-07-15 07:08:50 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: I have heard pedophiles make that same argument

Ah, there it is. Bigot go-to #48. Let that bigot flag fly!


Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: To them it's merely a behavior and not a facet of one's personality.

Sure, but they're wrong. And, you know, bigots.


Is bigot the primary word in your vocabulary or is it just your go to when you got nothing?
 
2014-07-15 07:10:54 PM  

Callous: Is bigot the primary word in your vocabulary or is it just your go to when you got nothing?


I go to it when it's accurate.
 
2014-07-15 07:12:34 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: Danger Avoid Death: Gunny Highway: Magorn: Boerne SHOULD have been controlling in the Hobby Lobby case but wasn't so where we are now is anybody's guess

The backside of another dune.  Who knows what is on the other side.

[img.tfd.com image 600x338]

Sandworms. Lots and lots of sandworms. Wormsign even the likes of which even God has never seen.

well ok, they don't have to hire rug munchers and fudge packers, but they don't get any federal money either. Accreditation should be based solely on the academic program. stop forcing the homosexual agenda on every single group, organization and business. don't like them go else ware.


The ONE guy in this thread I would have expected some Dune banter from, and you have to go and lay that on us. Thanks.

Just for that:

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com

Just because.
 
2014-07-15 07:13:42 PM  

Callous: Bawdy George: Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person

Right, a cop out. "Gay people are cool with us as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay."

Gee golly, what a deal for gays! How generous of the religious to allow gays to exist in our modern society as long as they conform to the rules that please the religious. See gays, what's the problem? Be gay, just don't, be gay. See, we're not bigots! We good? We good.

The vacuous arguments Christian apologists come up with to justify their homophobic bigotry would be kind of amusing if they weren't so sad.

Where have I apologized for anything or assigned right or wrong to their beliefs?  I have merely tried to relay them as accurately as I understand them.

Although I do find it amusing that you cannot engage in the conversation with out screaming "H8ter!!!!".  And homophobic implies fear, I have never seen that.  It's another accusation that is intended to stifle conversation and force conformity of opinion.  Either that or it's another demonstration of the point I made above about you not understanding them while screaming and crying that they don't understand you.


Guess what, champ? Not all ideas/opinions have equal grounding in reality, which you've demonstrated amply. And mockery != screaming and crying.

And "apologetics" doesn't mean apologizing. Not entirely surprising that you get that wrong as well
 
2014-07-15 07:24:24 PM  

Bawdy George: Callous: Bawdy George: Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: No it's a demonstration of their belief that behaviors don't define the person

Right, a cop out. "Gay people are cool with us as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay."

Gee golly, what a deal for gays! How generous of the religious to allow gays to exist in our modern society as long as they conform to the rules that please the religious. See gays, what's the problem? Be gay, just don't, be gay. See, we're not bigots! We good? We good.

The vacuous arguments Christian apologists come up with to justify their homophobic bigotry would be kind of amusing if they weren't so sad.

Where have I apologized for anything or assigned right or wrong to their beliefs?  I have merely tried to relay them as accurately as I understand them.

Although I do find it amusing that you cannot engage in the conversation with out screaming "H8ter!!!!".  And homophobic implies fear, I have never seen that.  It's another accusation that is intended to stifle conversation and force conformity of opinion.  Either that or it's another demonstration of the point I made above about you not understanding them while screaming and crying that they don't understand you.

Guess what, champ? Not all ideas/opinions have equal grounding in reality, which you've demonstrated amply. And mockery != screaming and crying.

And "apologetics" doesn't mean apologizing. Not entirely surprising that you get that wrong as well


I'm sorry where did I assign any credibility or grounding in reality to their beliefs?  Oh I didn't, you're just having an emotional reaction to something you disagree with and attacked the messenger.
 
2014-07-15 07:28:55 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


At least in some interpretation, especially when used as pagan fertility and harvest rights. It is however no where near the evil of wearing poly-cotton clothing and other monstrous acts.
 
2014-07-15 07:33:33 PM  
religions folks, what in the hell will they imagine next.
 
2014-07-15 07:33:45 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Callous: I have heard pedophiles make that same argument

Ah, there it is. Bigot go-to #48. Let that bigot flag fly!


So UK academics and an Australian judge are bigots?
 
2014-07-15 07:43:04 PM  

dwrash: Why do people hate freedom of association so much and insist on forcing their beliefs on those that just wish to be left alone?


Because people like you and the college think freedom of association only applies to them and not the other members of the New England Association of Schools and Colleges who have their own right to determine what the standards are for those whom they wish to associate with or not.  You can't accuse the other members of forcing their beliefs on a college who just wishes to be left alone when that college demands that they keep their membership on conditions the other members object to on the basis of their consciences- that is doing to others exactly what you will not accept when done to you.
 
2014-07-15 07:43:28 PM  

Son of Thunder: So UK academics and an Australian judge are bigots?


So quick with the pedophilia research! Equating what two consenting ADULTS do to what an adult and a child who is unable to consent do is in fact a disgusting tactic used by bigots, yes.
 
2014-07-15 07:45:30 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Son of Thunder: So UK academics and an Australian judge are bigots?

So quick with the pedophilia research! Equating what two consenting ADULTS do to what an adult and a child who is unable to consent do is in fact a disgusting tactic used by bigots, yes.


So you didn't read the links then.
 
2014-07-15 07:46:40 PM  

Son of Thunder: So you didn't read the links then.


I somehow managed not to.
 
Displayed 50 of 253 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report