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(The Business Journals)   Mass Christian college to Obama Administration: We want an exemption from your proposed law so we can discriminate against hiring gays and lesbians. New England Association of School and College: So, about that accreditation of yours   (bizjournals.com ) divider line
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8982 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2014 at 3:25 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-15 04:04:42 PM  

genner: The important thing to remember is that gay marriage doesn't affect you...... as long you don't run a bakery.....or a school.


And it doesn't affect you then either.  Unless you're an asshole who wants to force their beliefs down others' throats and up their vaginas.
 
2014-07-15 04:07:03 PM  

Nix Nightbird: TheOtherMisterP: The bible has VERY little to say about homosexuality. It has far more to say about pre-marital heterosexual activity.

I'd argue that if Christian colleges don't want to hire homosexuals, then they should not hire unmarried non-virgins either.

The bible does teach that homosexuality is a sin. It also teaches that everyone is a sinner. So why make a special case against teh gheys?

Because, quite honestly, they are hung up on gay sex. They either think it's "icky" or they want it. They're sick in the head when it comes to their sexual upbringing. They seem to have to impose their sexual desires and fears on everyone else. It's twisted.


No, it's the unrepentant part of it.  If you are living as an open homosexual or continue to engage in the behavior you're an unrepentant sinner.  An alcoholic who continues to drink is an unrepentant sinner as well.  While a recovering alcoholic who no longer drinks is a repentant sinner.  Therefore a homosexual who renounces homosexuality and no longer engages in the behavior would be a repentant sinner.

You can replace homosexuality or alcoholism with just about any sin.  The line is drawn at whether or not you are actively engaging in that sin without any intention of stopping or remorse.
 
2014-07-15 04:07:06 PM  

Callous: FTFA:   executive order barring organizations that take federal money from discrimination in hiring based on sexual orientation.

I think I found the solution.

Homosexuality clearly violates their religious beliefs.  Thus they should not be forced to hire them as a matter of law.  But if it's only a condition of accepting tax dollars they have a way to apply their religious beliefs free of government mandate.  Don't take the tax dollars.


Except that's not what's happening. Accreditation isn't just about money.
 
2014-07-15 04:08:10 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: good.  This is the only thing that will shut some of these jesus freaks up.



No it won't. They'll just go on without accreditation.
 
2014-07-15 04:08:11 PM  

Nix Nightbird: * Burns honey


You know there's a lot of stuff I can tolerate but burning honey is going too far.

/wut
 
2014-07-15 04:08:44 PM  

Callous: FTFA:   executive order barring organizations that take federal money from discrimination in hiring based on sexual orientation.

I think I found the solution.

Homosexuality clearly violates their religious beliefs.  Thus they should not be forced to hire them as a matter of law.  But if it's only a condition of accepting tax dollars they have a way to apply their religious beliefs free of government mandate.  Don't take the tax dollars.


But what about the endowment?

/that's what she said
 
2014-07-15 04:08:53 PM  

qorkfiend: This can't be true. I was informed that the HL decision would never, ever, under any circumstances, be cited in an attempt to justify discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.


It still isnt. All HL didwas state the executive had to follow a congressionally passed law. It was a statutory case. There are still 3 steps to be met to allow the college to discriminate. HL changed no laws. None. Zero. It just told the administration to follow it.

Sorry you remain ignorant to reality.
 
2014-07-15 04:10:06 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: genner: The important thing to remember is that gay marriage doesn't affect you...... as long you don't run a bakery.....or a school.

And it doesn't affect you then either.  Unless you're an asshole who wants to force their beliefs down others' throats and up their vaginas.


Aaaand I've found a new name for my penis.
 
2014-07-15 04:10:13 PM  

Lordserb: Meh MALE homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for cherry-picking their beliefs.


FTFY.
 
2014-07-15 04:10:25 PM  

DubtodaIll: Dusk-You-n-Me: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

If discriminating against gays is essential to your religion, what does that say about your religion?

If you assume humanity has always had homosexuality as part of it's fabric why do you think it was forbidden in the first place?


because what was forbidden is something VERY different than what we define as "homosexuality".   For example Homosexuality in Roman culture, especially after Augustine's reforms was severely sanction by the state.  But the term they used did not define a man farking another man.  THAT  they were totally okay with.   The problem was when you had an EXCLUSIVE romantic relationship with a man of basically equal social status.   And the reason they had a problem wih that was simply because it made it less likely that you would do your duty to the state and pop out a few kids.    Once you had done that and they survived to adulthood, roman law didn;t really give a fark who you farked or how
 
2014-07-15 04:10:45 PM  
FTFA: "It does not represent a policy for Gordon. It represents support for the larger underlying issue," the college spokescritter said.

So... in addition to being homophobic bigots, they're Liars for Jesustm
 
2014-07-15 04:11:11 PM  

netizencain: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion


Establishment means they can't start their own religion. It does not mean they can't enforce someone else's religion. All it means is that you are free to choose how to worship Jesus Christ, whether you are a Catholic, Protestant or Evangelical.
 
2014-07-15 04:12:51 PM  

rjakobi: I think the question we should be asking is if a gay and/or lesbian individual would have been considering putting an application into a Christian college for anything other than masochistic reasons.


This is a hiring decision, not an academic one.

While I agree that students shouldn't attend religious schools, but it's pretty hard to work in education and Massachusetts and not work for a school that has a religious background.
 
2014-07-15 04:14:00 PM  

with great power comes great insanity: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

There's a lot of other sins that I bet they aren't worrying about in their hiring decisions.

Do all their employees keep the Sabbath holy, honour their parents, reject wearing clothing of differing fabrics, and stop people with eye defects from going to church?


I just looked, and they do, in fact, require a statement about students being Christian in addition to the usual statement about academic fitness. So they do, in fact check if you go to church on Sundays, among other things.

And if you think that's a bit much, you should see what it takes to apply for a faculty position. A friend of mine was asked to sign that she has a whole host of very conservative Christian beliefs for one place. Including, oddly, that women are to be subservient to their husbands. I'm not really clear why they bothered to accept applications from women at all. I encouraged her to sign it, since it explicitly said I'm going to Hell. She didn't finish that application.
 
2014-07-15 04:15:11 PM  

Copper Spork: netizencain: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Establishment means they can't start their own religion. It does not mean they can't enforce someone else's religion. All it means is that you are free to choose how to worship Jesus Christ, whether you are a Catholic, Protestant or Evangelical.


I really wish there weren't so many people eagerly and genuinely dishing up this Poeslaw.
 
2014-07-15 04:15:18 PM  

TheOtherMisterP: The bible has VERY little to say about homosexuality. It has far more to say about pre-marital heterosexual activity.

I'd argue that if Christian colleges don't want to hire homosexuals, then they should not hire unmarried non-virgins either.

The bible does teach that homosexuality is a sin. It also teaches that everyone is a sinner. So why make a special case against teh gheys?


Because Jesus was totally clear when he said "that which you do to the least of you, you do to me...except for the gays.  Do unto them all you want.  Seriously, I hate the queers.  Why do I hang out with 12 dudes?  Um..."
 
2014-07-15 04:17:21 PM  

SilentStrider: Grand_Moff_Joseph: good.  This is the only thing that will shut some of these jesus freaks up.


No it won't. They'll just go on without accreditation.


and if employers were smart, they'd refuse to hire individuals from unaccredited "universities", since they can't be 100% sure that they received an adequate education.
 
2014-07-15 04:19:40 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Not all Very few Christians hate gays.


But many believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Some don't.  There are many many different Christian sects with different beliefs.

And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.
 
2014-07-15 04:21:41 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: with great power comes great insanity: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

There's a lot of other sins that I bet they aren't worrying about in their hiring decisions.

Do all their employees keep the Sabbath holy, honour their parents, reject wearing clothing of differing fabrics, and stop people with eye defects from going to church?

I just looked, and they do, in fact, require a statement about students being Christian in addition to the usual statement about academic fitness. So they do, in fact check if you go to church on Sundays, among other things.

And if you think that's a bit much, you should see what it takes to apply for a faculty position. A friend of mine was asked to sign that she has a whole host of very conservative Christian beliefs for one place. Including, oddly, that women are to be subservient to their husbands. I'm not really clear why they bothered to accept applications from women at all. I encouraged her to sign it, since it explicitly said I'm going to Hell. She didn't finish that application.


Sorry, I should have emphasized in the first paragraph that that's for potential students.
 
2014-07-15 04:22:57 PM  

Magorn: what gets sticky is what constitutes an "exercise" of a religion?

Is making the Amish participate in Social Security violating their religious belief that any form of insurance is immoral as it indicates a lack of trust in god? (or to make that example more up to date, How will the individual mandate fare against Christian Scientists claiming they have a right NOT to have insurance since they don't believe in modern medicine)


You have to pay for crap you don't like, just as I have to pay for wars I was opposed to.  If you want to refuse to go to the hospital when you get sick, you can, so long as you're an adult.


Magorn:How about a requirement that kids attend school until they are 16 (again Amish and some Mennonites believe that any schooling beyond the 6th grade level is immoral because it will make the person vain and proud of what they know)

Yep.  A democracy needs educated voters, and you don't have a right to deny your kids an education.


MagornWhat about using a drug in a religious ceremony that the federal government has banned?

Nope - but maybe the dug shouldn't be banned in the first place.  Possibly an exception could be made for natives or aboriginals that were doing that before European colonists took over, but that's not really a religious issue, that's more an "acknowledging that they sorta/kinda get to be their own nation with their own laws" thing.


MagornAnimal sacrifice in contravention of local animal cruelty laws?

Nope.  Use a stuffed animal or something.  Maybe you can "transubstantiate" it into a real, alive animal just before you kill it.


Magorn: Human sacrifice?

Fine I guess, so long as the sacrifice is a consenting adult volunteer.  Though, again, a RealDoll should be sufficient.  Transubstantiate that rascal.

/Funny, you call these questions "sticky," but they seemed pretty damn easy to me.
 
2014-07-15 04:23:21 PM  

mootmah: Callous: FTFA:   executive order barring organizations that take federal money from discrimination in hiring based on sexual orientation.

I think I found the solution.

Homosexuality clearly violates their religious beliefs.  Thus they should not be forced to hire them as a matter of law.  But if it's only a condition of accepting tax dollars they have a way to apply their religious beliefs free of government mandate.  Don't take the tax dollars.

But what about the endowment?

/that's what she said


If the endowment money comes from tax dollars then it's subject to the rules the government applies to it.

If you don't want to follow those rules don't accept the money.   It's not farking rocket surgery.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: SilentStrider: Grand_Moff_Joseph: good.  This is the only thing that will shut some of these jesus freaks up.


No it won't. They'll just go on without accreditation.

and if employers were smart, they'd refuse to hire individuals from unaccredited "universities", since they can't be 100% sure that they received an adequate education.


Accreditation should be based solely on curriculum and not religious practices as I think that the 1A would explicitly preclude that.
 
2014-07-15 04:25:17 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


So is eating shrimp. Yet i know a ton of catholics eating those tasty lil bastards every friday during lent.
 
2014-07-15 04:26:33 PM  

eagles95: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

So is eating shrimp. Yet i know a ton of catholics eating those tasty lil bastards every friday during lent.


You need to reread the New Testament.
 
2014-07-15 04:27:47 PM  

serial_crusher: Shouldn't an accreditation board make their decisions based on the actual quality of the education students get, not the assholeness of the assholes running the place?


Funny thing is, if you want to be accredited, there's a list of rules you have to agree to follow.  Let's take a look at rule 11.5, shall we?

11.5  The institution adheres to non-discriminatory policies and practices in recruitment, admissions, employment, evaluation, disciplinary action, and advancement. It fosters an atmosphere within the institutional community that respects and supports people of diverse characteristics and backgrounds.
 
2014-07-15 04:28:56 PM  

serial_crusher: Shouldn't an accreditation board make their decisions based on the actual quality of the education students get, not the assholeness of the assholes running the place?


Lol no.

Its a checklist to see if you meet accreditation. Promise not to discriminate? OOooooo missed that box.
 
2014-07-15 04:29:01 PM  

Callous: eagles95: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

So is eating shrimp. Yet i know a ton of catholics eating those tasty lil bastards every friday during lent.

You need to reread the New Testament.



Also Christian != Catholic

Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic.  Catholics have many, many practices that make no sense to other Christian sects.
 
2014-07-15 04:29:10 PM  

genner: The important thing to remember is that gay marriage doesn't affect you...... as long you don't run a bakery.....or a school. aren't a bigoted asshole who tries to treat other human beings like crap.



FTFY.
 
2014-07-15 04:29:41 PM  

rjakobi: I think the question we should be asking is if a gay and/or lesbian individual would have been considering putting an application into a Christian college for anything other than masochistic reasons.


*shrug* I'm straight (but vaguely agnostic/atheist), and majored in music at a Methodist college because it had an excellent music program.

/Pretty sure one of my roommates came out of the closet after graduating...
 
2014-07-15 04:30:47 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to my interpretation of the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


FTFY.
 
2014-07-15 04:31:50 PM  

ciberido: serial_crusher: Shouldn't an accreditation board make their decisions based on the actual quality of the education students get, not the assholeness of the assholes running the place?

Funny thing is, if you want to be accredited, there's a list of rules you have to agree to follow.  Let's take a look at rule 11.5, shall we?

11.5  The institution adheres to non-discriminatory policies and practices in recruitment, admissions, employment, evaluation, disciplinary action, and advancement. It fosters an atmosphere within the institutional community that respects and supports people of diverse characteristics and backgrounds.


So they can't refuse to hire someone who fails a drug test or has a criminal record?  Oh they can because it's accepted that crime and drug use are wrong behaviors.  To a Christian homosexuality is wrong.
 
2014-07-15 04:34:18 PM  

Callous: I May Be Crazy But...: Not all Very few Christians hate gays.

But many believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Some don't.  There are many many different Christian sects with different beliefs.

And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.


Very well, not all Christians believe that being gay is a sin (worse than any other that people do all the time at least). And then the rest of what I said.

The ones I've met who bother mentioning that being gay is a sin, they certainly talk like they hate them. Mind you, this is family I'm talking about here, and I'l bet that they don't talk the same around strangers. Made our wedding reception awkward when the worst of that crowd ended up sitting right next to my lesbian aunt and her wife.

Your experience obviously varies.
 
2014-07-15 04:35:25 PM  
Callous:
And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

Hate may be too strong of a word for many people. On the other hand I call bullshiat on most of the anti-gay Christians who claim to love gay people. They love to spout "hate the sin, love the sinner", but in many Christians' attitudes toward and treatment of gay people, I don't see anything resembling love. Actions count a hell of a lot more than words. Besides, who can love someone without accepting them? Who we choose to love is an integral part of who we are as a person. If we can't accept that aspect of someone's life, then I think it's bullshiat to claim we love them.
 
2014-07-15 04:36:24 PM  

ciberido: Magorn: what gets sticky is what constitutes an "exercise" of a religion?

Is making the Amish participate in Social Security violating their religious belief that any form of insurance is immoral as it indicates a lack of trust in god? (or to make that example more up to date, How will the individual mandate fare against Christian Scientists claiming they have a right NOT to have insurance since they don't believe in modern medicine)

You have to pay for crap you don't like, just as I have to pay for wars I was opposed to.  If you want to refuse to go to the hospital when you get sick, you can, so long as you're an adult.


Magorn:How about a requirement that kids attend school until they are 16 (again Amish and some Mennonites believe that any schooling beyond the 6th grade level is immoral because it will make the person vain and proud of what they know)

Yep.  A democracy needs educated voters, and you don't have a right to deny your kids an education.


Magorn:  What about using a drug in a religious ceremony that the federal government has banned?

Nope - but maybe the dug shouldn't be banned in the first place.  Possibly an exception could be made for natives or aboriginals that were doing that before European colonists took over, but that's not really a religious issue, that's more an "acknowledging that they sorta/kinda get to be their own nation with their own laws" thing.


Magorn:  Animal sacrifice in contravention of local animal cruelty laws?

Nope.  Use a stuffed animal or something.  Maybe you can "transubstantiate" it into a real, alive animal just before you kill it.


Magorn: Human sacrifice?

Fine I guess, so long as the sacrifice is a consenting adult volunteer.  Though, again, a RealDoll should be sufficient.  Transubstantiate that rascal.

/Funny, you call these questions "sticky," but they seemed pretty damn easy to me.


Well of that list:

Amish do get and exception to Education requirements
(Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 us 205)   but not paying social security for their employees (
United States v. Lee (1982)(though they do not have to participate themselves)

The peyote case is Smith dicussed above, and the animal sacrifice  issue came up in theChurch of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah
\
which came after smith but went 9-0 for the Santeria chicken killers
 
2014-07-15 04:36:54 PM  

Magorn: DubtodaIll: Dusk-You-n-Me: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

If discriminating against gays is essential to your religion, what does that say about your religion?

If you assume humanity has always had homosexuality as part of it's fabric why do you think it was forbidden in the first place?

because what was forbidden is something VERY different than what we define as "homosexuality".   For example Homosexuality in Roman culture, especially after Augustine's reforms was severely sanction by the state.  But the term they used did not define a man farking another man.  THAT  they were totally okay with.   The problem was when you had an EXCLUSIVE romantic relationship with a man of basically equal social status.   And the reason they had a problem wih that was simply because it made it less likely that you would do your duty to the state and pop out a few kids.    Once you had done that and they survived to adulthood, roman law didn;t really give a fark who you farked or how


Not to mention that it wasn't always forbidden. The Greeks believed that the love between men is greater than any love between a man and a woman and society was based around the Eromenos-Eroastes relationship - where a young man finds an older and established man as a mentor who would introduce him into society.
 
2014-07-15 04:38:06 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


They are not.  The Bible also tells us that the Dean and all of the College's administrators are sinners.  But it doesn't keep them from paying themselves.
 
2014-07-15 04:40:16 PM  

patrick767: Callous:
And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

Hate may be too strong of a word for many people. On the other hand I call bullshiat on most of the anti-gay Christians who claim to love gay people. They love to spout "hate the sin, love the sinner", but in many Christians' attitudes toward and treatment of gay people, I don't see anything resembling love. Actions count a hell of a lot more than words. Besides, who can love someone without accepting them? Who we choose to love is an integral part of who we are as a person. If we can't accept that aspect of someone's life, then I think it's bullshiat to claim we love them.


Do you hate alcoholics?  How about drug addicts?  Any of your friends or relatives have a criminal record?

You can object to the behavior and not hate the person.  Love doesn't require accepting everything about someone.  Why is it so black or white with you?
 
2014-07-15 04:40:29 PM  

ciberido: /Funny, you call these questions "sticky," but they seemed pretty damn easy to me.


Every question is easy if you just call it easy and say yes or no.
 
2014-07-15 04:42:09 PM  

Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.



if we're gonna play that card, then we have to play the what-about-all-the-other-stuff-the-old-testament-calls-a-sin card.

to be consistent, if homosexuality is a no go, they need to also not hire anybody who:
wears mixed blended fibers
trims their beard
works on the sabbath
eats swine

you see where I'm going with this. Either you respect ALL the laws of the bible w/o interpretation or you admit that secular modern life trumps the more antiquated rules & it should be treated as a living document w/ the overall thought of "don't be a dick" being the prevailing message.
 
2014-07-15 04:44:00 PM  

Callous: I May Be Crazy But...: Not all Very few Christians hate gays.

But many believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Some don't.  There are many many different Christian sects with different beliefs.

And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.


media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com
Au contraire
 
2014-07-15 04:45:11 PM  

DubtodaIll: Dusk-You-n-Me: If discriminating against gays is essential to your religion, what does that say about your religion?

If you assume humanity has always had homosexuality as part of it's fabric why do you think it was forbidden in the first place?


First off, unlike some religious extremists, I prefer to let science explore and endeavor to reveal how and when things came to be rather than ASSUME that the just-so stories my distant ancestors told around their campfires explain things.

Second, to answer your question, I rather believe (to the extent it's as you say) it's for the same reason why it was forbidden to treat people with odd skin tones like equal human begins.  Fearing and disliking the other seems to be one of those things which we "assume" has always been part of humanity's fabric, as you call it.  It is to our shame that many religions codified these prejudices into divine edicts.

Third, homosexuality wasn't really forbidden by religion (not Christianity and certainly not all religions) "in the first place."  Homosexuality predates Christianity and probably all religions practiced today.  Most likely it predates humanity itself.  Nor did every religion which now condemns it always do so.  Specifically, Christianity did not always prohibit homosexuality.  That is, to put it broadly, a myth that is propagated party through ignorance and also because it is very embarrassing to admit that your religion has not always been as it is now.
 
2014-07-15 04:48:28 PM  

Ed's Wood: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.


if we're gonna play that card, then we have to play the what-about-all-the-other-stuff-the-old-testament-calls-a-sin card.

to be consistent, if homosexuality is a no go, they need to also not hire anybody who:
wears mixed blended fibers
trims their beard
works on the sabbath
eats swine

you see where I'm going with this. Either you respect ALL the laws of the bible w/o interpretation or you admit that secular modern life trumps the more antiquated rules & it should be treated as a living document w/ the overall thought of "don't be a dick" being the prevailing message.


Yes, you're demonstrating how you are stuck in the Old Testament and don't understand the difference between Christians and Jews.

Hint, Christ changed A LOT of the rules.  Homosexuality isn't one of them though.  Actually Christ never addressed the topic, but Paul did.  That has left a lot of room for debate among Christians but the prevailing opinion is that it's a sin.
 
2014-07-15 04:49:31 PM  

Bawdy George: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...: Not all Very few Christians hate gays.

But many believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Some don't.  There are many many different Christian sects with different beliefs.

And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 236x460]
Au contraire


Thank you for demonstrating my point.
 
2014-07-15 04:50:47 PM  

Nix Nightbird: Lordserb: Meh homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. At least they are standing up for their beliefs.

No they aren't.

If they were standing up for the beliefs they're allegedly supposed to divine from Leviticus, then they wouldn't be hiring or admitting anyone who:

* Trims his beard
* Eats shellfish
* Eats blood (yes, even in a rare steak)


That liquid that comes from a rare steak is not blood.  It's myoglobin.  Of course, since this is religion you're talking about, you can always say "well, it COUNTS as blood" the same way electricity counts as fire for some Jews.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go have some nice blood sausage, because fark Leviticus.
 
2014-07-15 04:52:35 PM  
Why do people hate freedom of association so much and insist on forcing their beliefs on those that just wish to be left alone?
 
2014-07-15 04:52:42 PM  
Clemkadidlefark: Let's see who's laughing when Islamic based organizations ask the same thing. I'm sure Subby and the Farkers want to deliver ObamaCare's demands ..

You're probably right, so go ahead and hold your breath until it happens.  That way, when the time comes, you can laugh louder.
 
2014-07-15 04:56:11 PM  
There are two separate issues here:  The government withholding federal money from colleges that fail to follow certain rules, and the regional accreditation board pulling their academic accreditation.  If they lose their regional accreditation, there are religious accreditation organizations that could accredit Gordon college to the satisfaction of other religious nuts, though other universities (think: students applying for graduate school elsewhere) and employers may not consider them a "real" college anymore.
 
2014-07-15 04:57:16 PM  

Nix Nightbird: TheOtherMisterP: The bible has VERY little to say about homosexuality. It has far more to say about pre-marital heterosexual activity.

I'd argue that if Christian colleges don't want to hire homosexuals, then they should not hire unmarried non-virgins either.

The bible does teach that homosexuality is a sin. It also teaches that everyone is a sinner. So why make a special case against teh gheys?

Because, quite honestly, they are hung up on gay sex. They either think it's "icky" or they want it.


[whynotboth.jpg]

{note: the following is directed towards the fundie homophobes, not Nix:}

Personally, I prefer sex of the non-icky kind, but whatever rocks your world, Princess Puritan.  But it would really be easier to just pay someone to spank you and call you a naughty, dirty sinner.  I might even know a few people who'd do it for free, if you cleaned up and bought them dinner first.
 
2014-07-15 04:58:08 PM  

Callous: mootmah: Callous: FTFA:   executive order barring organizations that take federal money from discrimination in hiring based on sexual orientation.

I think I found the solution.

Homosexuality clearly violates their religious beliefs.  Thus they should not be forced to hire them as a matter of law.  But if it's only a condition of accepting tax dollars they have a way to apply their religious beliefs free of government mandate.  Don't take the tax dollars.

But what about the endowment?

/that's what she said

If the endowment money comes from tax dollars then it's subject to the rules the government applies to it.

If you don't want to follow those rules don't accept the money.   It's not farking rocket surgery.Grand_Moff_Joseph: SilentStrider: Grand_Moff_Joseph: good.  This is the only thing that will shut some of these jesus freaks up.


No it won't. They'll just go on without accreditation.

and if employers were smart, they'd refuse to hire individuals from unaccredited "universities", since they can't be 100% sure that they received an adequate education.

Accreditation should be based solely on curriculum and not religious practices as I think that the 1A would explicitly preclude that.


A thousand times this.  Accreditation should only be withheld if a school is not providing a legitimate course of study in comparison to similar programs offered elsewhere.  Using something like accreditation for political means, and however right you might think LGBT issues are it IS a political issue in the end, is a misuse of power.  It's analogous to yanking someone's medical license because they are in the KKK.  The two things are not related.  It's why the Westboro Baptist people still have law licenses.  They are asshats, but they did actually pass a bar exam at some point.

Now, when a school teaches creation 'science' and other nonsense.  Well, then there are legitimate academic concerns.
 
2014-07-15 04:59:16 PM  

Callous: Bawdy George: Callous: I May Be Crazy But...: Not all Very few Christians hate gays.

But many believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Some don't.  There are many many different Christian sects with different beliefs.

And stop throwing the "hate" word around.  For 99.9% of the people that believe that homosexuality is a sin there is no hate or malice involved.  All you do is drive a wedge in further by calling them names.  All it does is demonstrate to them how little you understand them while you scream and cry that they don't understand you.

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 236x460]
Au contraire

Thank you for demonstrating my point.


Callous: Hint, Christ changed A LOT of the rules. Homosexuality isn't one of them though. Actually Christ never addressed the topic, but Paul did. That has left a lot of room for debate among Christians but the prevailing opinion is that it's a sin.


Thank you for demonstrating my point.
 
2014-07-15 04:59:28 PM  

Callous: Hint, Christ changed A LOT of the rules. Homosexuality isn't one of them though. Actually Christ never addressed the topic, but Paul did. That has left a lot of room for debate among Christians but the prevailing opinion is that it's a sin.


Has there ever been a breakaway sect of Christianity that regards St. Paul as some jerk who came along after Jesus had died, resurrected, and ascended and hijacked the religion?  If not, someone needs to start one.
 
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