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(Utah People's Post)   Your dog isn't just a cute, fluffy version of his wild cousins. Genetically he's more like a retarded wolf. Submitter's dog doubly so   (utahpeoplespost.com) divider line 51
    More: Obvious  
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2551 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jul 2014 at 3:31 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-15 03:03:45 PM  
In a bold hypothesis proposed by Adam Wilkins from the Humboldt University of Berlin and co-authors Richard Wrangham of Harvard University and Tecumseh Fitch of the University of Vienna, domesticated animals' cuteness is a disadvantage.

Isn't that demonstrably wrong? Sure, domesticated "cute" animals may not fare very well in the wild, but they don't belong in the wild anyway. In our homes, cuteness is a selected advantage - the cutest animals can sit around, do nothing and they'll be fed by humans who will serve them food and water, play with them and help them pee and poop.
 
2014-07-15 03:36:55 PM  
I blame drugs

www.nedmartin.org

/any excuse
 
2014-07-15 03:38:12 PM  
Your dog doesn't want vaccinations
 
2014-07-15 03:39:15 PM  
And in the meantime my cat sits at home plotting my demise.
 
2014-07-15 03:40:14 PM  

Prophet of Loss: I blame drugs

[www.nedmartin.org image 495x445]

/any excuse


OK, now that's funny.
 
2014-07-15 03:47:14 PM  

Prophet of Loss: I blame drugs

[www.nedmartin.org image 495x445]

/any excuse


mojoimage.com
 
2014-07-15 03:49:02 PM  

zarker: Your dog doesn't want vaccinations

(i see someone was on reddit yesterday )

yes and he prob didn't  like that we didn't  have a discussion about the fate of his nuts either. but until he comes up with some hand signals or written language . i am going to run the show
 
2014-07-15 03:51:14 PM  
"Your dog wants potato" ..?
 
2014-07-15 03:56:50 PM  
That seemed awfully normative for a discussion of evolutionary changes.
 
2014-07-15 04:01:32 PM  
They prefer 'differently-abled' Subby.
 
2014-07-15 04:02:24 PM  

RexTalionis: In a bold hypothesis proposed by Adam Wilkins from the Humboldt University of Berlin and co-authors Richard Wrangham of Harvard University and Tecumseh Fitch of the University of Vienna, domesticated animals' cuteness is a disadvantage.

Isn't that demonstrably wrong? Sure, domesticated "cute" animals may not fare very well in the wild, but they don't belong in the wild anyway. In our homes, cuteness is a selected advantage - the cutest animals can sit around, do nothing and they'll be fed by humans who will serve them food and water, play with them and help them pee and poop.


Yeah, "fitness" is merely a measure of something's ability to survive in its environment.  A dog's environment is a human home.  One that's tame, cute, and cuddly has a much better chance of "success" in this environment than one that's aggressive, as the latter will likely be euthanized, thus removing it from the gene pool (not that most dogs that do succeed remain in the gene pool, either, but this is due to reasons other than death).
 
2014-07-15 04:03:14 PM  

Black_Lazerus: zarker: Your dog doesn't want vaccinations

(i see someone was on reddit yesterday )
yes and he prob didn't  like that we didn't  have a discussion about the fate of his nuts either. but until he comes up with some hand signals or written language . i am going to run the show


Oblig...

4.bp.blogspot.com
/one of my favorite Larson 'toons...
 
2014-07-15 04:06:10 PM  

RexTalionis: In a bold hypothesis proposed by Adam Wilkins from the Humboldt University of Berlin and co-authors Richard Wrangham of Harvard University and Tecumseh Fitch of the University of Vienna, domesticated animals' cuteness is a disadvantage.

Isn't that demonstrably wrong? Sure, domesticated "cute" animals may not fare very well in the wild, but they don't belong in the wild anyway. In our homes, cuteness is a selected advantage - the cutest animals can sit around, do nothing and they'll be fed by humans who will serve them food and water, play with them and help them pee and poop.


Seriously aren't dogs more populous than all other Canids combined?
 
2014-07-15 04:07:36 PM  
"Our pets are definitely tamer, have floppier ears, softer jawlines and more "naive" faces than their wild relatives."

My street-born dingo-like mongrel isn't and doesn't.
 
2014-07-15 04:09:47 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

/ Image clicky-pop
 
2014-07-15 04:14:23 PM  

Prophet of Loss: /any excuse


I love that image, I use it whenever I can

/small angry fist.
 
2014-07-15 04:19:59 PM  

Fast Moon: Yeah, "fitness" is merely a measure of something's ability to survive in its environment.  A dog's environment is a human home.  One that's tame, cute, and cuddly has a much better chance of "success" in this environment than one that's aggressive, as the latter will likely be euthanized, thus removing it from the gene pool (not that most dogs that do succeed remain in the gene pool, either, but this is due to reasons other than death).


I watched a documentary about training speciality dogs and the people involved would have strongly disputed that dogs are dumber.  They are intelligent in different ways.  There was a scenario where there was something (meat attached to a rope I think) that both dogs and wolves would want but neither would be able get at in on their own.  The wolves just kept tugging.  After a while the dogs stopped and looked at the person running the experiment with expressions between hopeful and "any time you jackass!"  Their premise was dog's had learned to use tools - us!
 
2014-07-15 04:30:34 PM  

gopher321: Prophet of Loss: I blame drugs

[www.nedmartin.org image 495x445]

/any excuse

[mojoimage.com image 247x204]


Put the tongue back in and that's my dog, buggy eyes and all.
 
2014-07-15 04:30:38 PM  
My own revision of a Far Side classic

i190.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-15 04:32:46 PM  

pup.socket: "Our pets are definitely tamer, have floppier ears, softer jawlines and more "naive" faces than their wild relatives."

My street-born dingo-like mongrel isn't and doesn't.


Wild and feral dogs are surprisingly uniform: short-haired, curly-tailed, around 35-40 lbs., and prick-eared.
 
2014-07-15 04:33:12 PM  
Not really sure, but I know dogs I've had were capable of strategic forethought wherever getting food was a concern.
 
2014-07-15 04:33:45 PM  

fst_creeper: Their premise was dog's had learned to use tools - us!


I've read about that kind of thing. Even when they tried to isolate the variables (using puppies of wolves and good old canis familiaris), the dog puppies would look to humans for assistance well before the wolf pups. We've created a species whose instincts are to look to us for help rather than keep on plugging away on their own.

I find the human-dog relationship to be fascinating... while humans have had influence on the development of some species, it's the dog that has really become something with a real symbiotic relationship with humans.

/My dog is perfectly well adapted for sitting on the couch, trolling for attention, and begging for treats. A treat-seeking missile, that mutt.
 
2014-07-15 04:37:00 PM  
FTA: Scientists are also testing the neural crest hypothesis for the rat, fox, and dog as we speak

See: domesticated silver fox

The Russian fox selective breeding program was really interesting in that they went both directions in their experiments, breeding both foxes that were mild and tame along with foxes that were wild and aggressive.  In all of the videos I've seen, the tame foxes had more tan and white in their fur coloring while the aggressive foxes had more black, so it was obvious that some system-wide change was going on in their genes.
 
2014-07-15 04:38:24 PM  
Dogs are social animals that have adapted to use people like tools

and they are very useful tools.

/I swear there are families in our neighborhood where the dog is clearly in charge, it is disturbing
 
2014-07-15 04:41:03 PM  

akula: A treat-seeking missile, that mutt.


Cats may learn the sound of a can opener but my sweet lovable mutt can tell the difference between the sound of a pickle (that she hates) and a cucumber (that she loves) hitting the floor.
 
2014-07-15 05:17:49 PM  
So, build yourself a Dire Wolf. The best (or worse) of both worlds.
 
2014-07-15 05:20:53 PM  

AlgaeRancher: /I swear there are families in our neighborhood where the dog is clearly in charge, it is disturbing


The pecking order in my house, as my dogs see it:
- Me
- The smart dog
- The dumb dog
- My wife
 
2014-07-15 05:38:03 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: AlgaeRancher: /I swear there are families in our neighborhood where the dog is clearly in charge, it is disturbing

The pecking order in my house, as my dogs see it:
- Me
- The smart dog
- The dumb dog
- My wife


LOL, my wife mildly (and somewhat humorously) complains that this is the truth in our house, too.

/two Labs
//Back Lab is the smart one
///Chocolate Lab is 'tarded
 
2014-07-15 05:45:28 PM  

Stone Meadow: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: AlgaeRancher: /I swear there are families in our neighborhood where the dog is clearly in charge, it is disturbing

The pecking order in my house, as my dogs see it:
- Me
- The smart dog
- The dumb dog
- My wife

LOL, my wife mildly (and somewhat humorously) complains that this is the truth in our house, too.

/two Labs
//Back Lab is the smart one
///Chocolate Lab is 'tarded


As anyone who has ever had to evict a dog from a new partner's bed can attest, dogs have a timeline based hierarchy .

/Had the Corgi before the wife, after my wife moved in, for over a month, the Corgi would stand on her chest and gave her this look of "I was here first and you are in my spot"
 
2014-07-15 05:46:05 PM  
Stone Meadow:
LOL, my wife mildly (and somewhat humorously) complains that this is the truth in our house, too.

My wife has no ability to stand up to the dogs.  All they have to do is stare at her and she'll give them whatever they want.
 
2014-07-15 05:49:10 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: AlgaeRancher: /I swear there are families in our neighborhood where the dog is clearly in charge, it is disturbing

The pecking order in my house, as my dogs see it:
- Me
- The smart dog
- The dumb dog
- My wife


Mine is the opposite:

1. Me
2. The dumb dog
3. The smart dog
4. Mr. MMM
 
2014-07-15 05:55:27 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Stone Meadow:
LOL, my wife mildly (and somewhat humorously) complains that this is the truth in our house, too.

My wife has no ability to stand up to the dogs.  All they have to do is stare at her and she'll give them whatever they want.


I have to hand it to my wife. She handles the hounds very well. It's just that they always push back just a little when they don't want to do what she says, whereas they salute smartly and move out when the Alpha Male speaks. My wife calls us Alpha, Beta and Omega... :)
 
2014-07-15 06:03:29 PM  
No one yet?

i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-07-15 06:21:47 PM  
"Domesticated Animals' Cuteness is a Disadvantage"

They must have a strange definition of 'disadvantage'.  The North American wolf almost went extinct.  Domesticated dogs are everywhere.

Any trait that gets you in the good graces of the voracious undisputed apex predator is an advantage.
 
2014-07-15 06:46:32 PM  
My cat is sitting on the desk biting the shiat out of my arm right now, so I'm really getting a kick...
 
2014-07-15 07:05:11 PM  
Tom_Slick:

As anyone who has ever had to evict a dog from a new partner's bed can attest, dogs have a timeline based hierarchy .

/Had the Corgi before the wife, after my wife moved in, for over a month, the Corgi would stand on her chest and gave her this look of "I was here first and you are in my spot"


My wife stayed at my place before I started spending a few weekends at hers.  In my bed everything was fine, but the first time I slept in hers the Whippet jumped up on the bed and damn near crushed my larynx.  Then all it did was stare at me with this "What are YOU doing in MY spot?" look on her face.
 
2014-07-15 07:42:58 PM  
So domestication modifies DNA to make dogs cuter and less fearful.
So how do we do this to humans?
 
2014-07-15 07:55:31 PM  

rev. dave: So domestication modifies DNA to make dogs cuter and less fearful.
So how do we do this to humans?


Inbreeding
 
2014-07-15 08:03:07 PM  
I have a samoyed, while seeming retarded, is quite smart and isn't a wolf breed.

also, no floppy ears.
 
2014-07-15 08:09:25 PM  

rwdavis: RexTalionis: In a bold hypothesis proposed by Adam Wilkins from the Humboldt University of Berlin and co-authors Richard Wrangham of Harvard University and Tecumseh Fitch of the University of Vienna, domesticated animals' cuteness is a disadvantage.

Isn't that demonstrably wrong? Sure, domesticated "cute" animals may not fare very well in the wild, but they don't belong in the wild anyway. In our homes, cuteness is a selected advantage - the cutest animals can sit around, do nothing and they'll be fed by humans who will serve them food and water, play with them and help them pee and poop.

Seriously aren't dogs more populous than all other Canids combined?


Yeah, by far.
 
2014-07-15 08:23:11 PM  

fst_creeper: akula: A treat-seeking missile, that mutt.

Cats may learn the sound of a can opener but my sweet lovable mutt can tell the difference between the sound of a pickle (that she hates) and a cucumber (that she loves) hitting the floor.


Actually, given the sense of smell most dogs have, she probably just smells the difference. Vinegar is sharp and astringent, there's a reason most predators have very nasty smelling urine.
 
2014-07-15 08:24:11 PM  

Tom_Slick: rev. dave: So domestication modifies DNA to make dogs cuter and less fearful.
So how do we do this to humans?

Inbreeding


Didn't work last time.   They remained highly aggresive and fearful.
 
2014-07-15 09:05:21 PM  

Lsherm: My cat is sitting on the desk biting the shiat out of my arm right now, so I'm really getting a kick...


If the cat was really biting the shiat out of your arm, you'd be headed to the ER. Those are simply gnaws of love.

\My cat stabs when she wants attention.
\\It's less painful now that she has trimmed claws.
 
2014-07-15 09:44:37 PM  
My dog is clever. If we're in the living room watching TV, she'll run into the kitchen and cause some kind of ruckus (getting into the garbage or something) and when I get up to go see what she's up to, she'll dart back into the living room and steal my spot on the couch.
 
2014-07-15 09:53:16 PM  
Who's a good dog?
 
2014-07-15 09:56:33 PM  

rev. dave: So domestication modifies DNA to make dogs cuter and less fearful.
So how do we do this to humans?


Wimmin'z been domesticatin' men for like eons, man.

/barely housebroken...
 
2014-07-16 12:11:42 AM  

kroonermanblack: Actually, given the sense of smell most dogs have, she probably just smells the difference. Vinegar is sharp and astringent, there's a reason most predators have very nasty smelling urine.


But I'm talking that nasty cucumber/mayonnaise/cream/vinegar/whatever the hell else is in it concoction.  My wife and kids love it, I hate it.  My daughter drops a pickle... nothing, a cucumber chunk, shes off like a bandit from two rooms away.  All at the same meal where both are on the plate.

/She also likes lettuce, brussel sprouts if raw and carrots.
//She's a good dog even if shes a weird one.
 
2014-07-16 12:45:02 AM  

Dinjiin: FTA: Scientists are also testing the neural crest hypothesis for the rat, fox, and dog as we speak

See: domesticated silver fox

The Russian fox selective breeding program was really interesting in that they went both directions in their experiments, breeding both foxes that were mild and tame along with foxes that were wild and aggressive.  In all of the videos I've seen, the tame foxes had more tan and white in their fur coloring while the aggressive foxes had more black, so it was obvious that some system-wide change was going on in their genes.


Tame animals have been selected for increased Neoteny, and wild ones have less of it.  Dark hair/fur, skin, etc. is one sign of less neoteny - so the interesting question is whether the dark fur has to do with an actual correlation between "wildness" or a correlation with our perception of wildness.

Admittedly, neoteny extends beyond external visual traits to mental traits, like gentleness or playfulness, so maybe there is some degree of genetic connection between observable external traits and mental ones. Really interesting thing to study.

I was just reading earlier that apparently black dogs and cats are the least likely to be adopted and most likely to be perceived as dangerous - sometimes in terms of physically dangerous/more vicious, or in other cases (like black cats) supernaturally dangerous.
 
2014-07-16 06:38:30 AM  

RexTalionis: In a bold hypothesis proposed by Adam Wilkins from the Humboldt University of Berlin and co-authors Richard Wrangham of Harvard University and Tecumseh Fitch of the University of Vienna, domesticated animals' cuteness is a disadvantage.

Isn't that demonstrably wrong? Sure, domesticated "cute" animals may not fare very well in the wild, but they don't belong in the wild anyway. In our homes, cuteness is a selected advantage - the cutest animals can sit around, do nothing and they'll be fed by humans who will serve them food and water, play with them and help them pee and poop.


Yeah, talk about not understanding the concept of the "fitness landscape" and that these animals are well adapted to their niche, whereas in many parts of the world their wild cousins are extinct because they compete directly or indirectly with us and we have guns.
 
2014-07-16 09:51:20 AM  
My older dog loves everyone...except my youngest son.  I think it is a jealously thing with my wife, but it is funny to watch.  He loves getting attention and petted by everyone except my youngest.  If the youngest sits on the same couch he snaps at him.  Anyone else?  He rubs up next to you.
 
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