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(Neowin)   Newly leaked Windows start menu unsure whether It's a dessert topping or floor wax   (neowin.net) divider line 84
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5983 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jul 2014 at 12:01 AM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-14 09:00:17 PM
We used to have a lot of fun running the 4000 series builds of Longhorn, waiting especially for the new file system which would make searching a painless thing. . .
 
2014-07-14 09:34:18 PM
upswingbabynames.com
 
2014-07-14 10:05:31 PM
Ooh, they're getting closer to Start8!
 
2014-07-14 10:06:44 PM

AGremlin: [upswingbabynames.com image 500x273]


That's an improvement on the current tiles interface.  The colors are nicer and the 3D indent makes it not hideous.
 
2014-07-14 10:16:30 PM

InterruptingQuirk: We used to have a lot of fun running the 4000 series builds of Longhorn, waiting especially for the new file system which would make searching a painless thing. . .


I'm all for Microsoft's new file system, but after seeing some of the downsides of Apple's and MS's continuous indexing I hope they find some sweet spot between providing for search and keeping the OS from getting bogged down if you do scads of file operations at once.
 
2014-07-14 11:34:34 PM

Lsherm: InterruptingQuirk: We used to have a lot of fun running the 4000 series builds of Longhorn, waiting especially for the new file system which would make searching a painless thing. . .

I'm all for Microsoft's new file system, but after seeing some of the downsides of Apple's and MS's continuous indexing I hope they find some sweet spot between providing for search and keeping the OS from getting bogged down if you do scads of file operations at once.


I had turned off the indexing function for a long time, but now it seems to make search dependent on it and will search ceases to function if you turn off indexing. I was really looking forward to WinFS. It would be nice to turn off indexing and keep search at this point. SSDs are fast enough for regular searching that indexing only wastes resources.
 
2014-07-15 12:11:05 AM
Someone thinks mail is real important.
 
2014-07-15 12:12:54 AM
Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
img.fark.net

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass
 
2014-07-15 12:15:59 AM

InterruptingQuirk: SSDs are fast enough for regular searching that indexing only wastes resources.


When 'Search' was for file names that was true

Not true for content searching.
 
2014-07-15 12:17:37 AM
It's a start. But fugly interface is still fugly.

/7 FO LYFE.  Or until 9.
 
2014-07-15 12:19:16 AM
Is it better than Classic Start?  No? How about giving me some downgrade rights to Windows 7 instead. No?  Then fark you Microsoft!  I mean that in a red-faced extremely pissed off Linus Torvalds sort of way so let me rephrase that:  fark you Microsoft!
 
2014-07-15 12:23:27 AM

jaytkay: Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
[img.fark.net image 269x421]

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass




How do you right-click on a windows tablet?
 
2014-07-15 12:26:38 AM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: jaytkay: Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
[img.fark.net image 269x421]

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass

How do you right-click on a windows tablet?


Only men can do it.

It's... not polite.
 
2014-07-15 12:29:10 AM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: How do you right-click on a windows tablet?


I don't know. I don't care.
 
2014-07-15 12:34:35 AM
Oh Metro... they just can't quit you!
 
2014-07-15 12:36:37 AM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: jaytkay: Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
[img.fark.net image 269x421]

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass

How do you right-click on a windows tablet?


I'd have to check to be absolutely certain, but tapping and holding on just about anything about 2 seconds before letting go seems to work for me.
 
2014-07-15 12:36:51 AM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: How do you right-click on a windows tablet?

Touch and hold for 1/2 second, presto, right-click with a tablet.

The same as its been since 2002 with Windows XP, Tablet Edition.
 
2014-07-15 12:38:23 AM
These days, Windows is a dessert wax and a floor topping. It tries to do everything, and isn't very good at anything.
 
2014-07-15 12:41:21 AM

Unscratchable_Itch: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: jaytkay: Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
[img.fark.net image 269x421]

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass

How do you right-click on a windows tablet?

I'd have to check to be absolutely certain, but tapping and holding on just about anything about 2 seconds before letting go seems to work for me.


I'd have to check to be absolutely certain, but tapping and holding on just about anything  for about 2 seconds before letting go seems to work for me.

/FTFM
 
2014-07-15 12:43:24 AM
How about allowing people to customize the start menu to their particular preferences?
 
2014-07-15 12:46:47 AM
Thank you for the headline, subby.  The first couple seasons of SNL were the best.

/now get off my lawn!
 
2014-07-15 12:50:49 AM
i57.tinypic.com
 
2014-07-15 12:53:01 AM

InterruptingQuirk: We used to have a lot of fun running the 4000 series builds of Longhorn, waiting especially for the new file system which would make searching a painless thing. . .


Honest to God, that's the current Windows 8 magic bullet.  Searching in Windows 8 is a goddamn miracle.

This could be a good option.  the apps aren't bad, but the screen system is a clunky ugly mess.  I have no objections to a news ticker or weather app or sports schedule or whatever else on my desktop, but it's not a useful feature for productivity when trying to find the program I want.
 
2014-07-15 12:57:51 AM
Client operating systems     Latest update or service pack     End of mainstream support     End of extended support
Windows 7 *                  Service Pack 1                    January 13, 2015              January 14, 2020


Might check it out Jan 15th 2020. Although by that time I guess Windows Oddnumber™ will be available and MS tablets will be right up there with Microsoft Bob and the Portable Media Centre.
 
2014-07-15 01:22:49 AM

Lsherm: Apple's and MS's continuous indexing


Since Mac OS X 10.9 I've use spotlight every single hour.  Its the first search and indexing mechanism that actually is productive.  And indexing on any modern Mac doesn't bog down shiat.  But ... yea ... they all still suck.

/why I can't get Mac OS X to default to search in the folder I'm in is a constant annoyance
//then again I can't get Windows 8 or Outlook to find shiat regardless of manual settings
 
2014-07-15 01:26:39 AM
Whomever designed the Windows 8 UI must give *really* good head since they can't seem to let it die.
 
2014-07-15 01:46:09 AM

jaytkay: Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu


Shiat, it was basically text only through Win2k.  I miss Win2k's efficiency
 
2014-07-15 01:46:12 AM
It sickens me to see two different styles of icons in use on the same menu.
 
2014-07-15 01:53:17 AM

pheelix: Is it better than Classic Start?  No? How about giving me some downgrade rights to Windows 7 instead. No?  Then fark you Microsoft!  I mean that in a red-faced extremely pissed off Linus Torvalds sort of way so let me rephrase that:  fark you Microsoft!


For godssake give it up. MS is going to keep some vestage of Metro just to not look like they have egg on thier faces. Get over it.

Bob Down: Client operating systems     Latest update or service pack     End of mainstream support     End of extended support
Windows 7 *                  Service Pack 1                    January 13, 2015              January 14, 2020

Might check it out Jan 15th 2020. Although by that time I guess Windows Oddnumber™ will be available and MS tablets will be right up there with Microsoft Bob and the Portable Media Centre.


What I hate is the Windows 8 tablets - the x86 ones - I've tried I've loved. The Dell Venue 8 is beautiful. My brother got a Lenovo one from a trade show and it's a magnificent piece of kit. And they would be lesser if they were running Windows 7. They just had to screw it up and make everyone and their great aunt think it sucks because they screwed up the bread-and-butter "overblown typewriter" market by having the audacity to change something. Now every little old lady I have to sell a 350$ laptop to is upset because Windows 7 isn't on there anymore, and by god Windows 7 was great and her girlfriend told her that so she knows its true don'tcha know.

/has been in retail long enough to remember people whining and crying that XP was overblown and hurt their productivity, why couldn't they have just stuck with Windows 98 SE
//then that XP was great, why did we need to go to Windows 7?
///basically, old farks have that same nostalgia for odd-numbered XP releases... just the one before the previous odd number.
 
2014-07-15 01:58:02 AM

gingerjet: /why I can't get Mac OS X to default to search in the folder I'm in is a constant annoyance


Go to finder, click the Finder menu, select Preferences. Click on "advanced" in the Finder Preferences Window, under "When Performing A Search:" select "Search the Current Folder"

Your next search in the upper right hand of each window will default to the folder you're in.
 
2014-07-15 02:13:50 AM

saintstryfe: What I hate is the Windows 8 tablets - the x86 ones - I've tried I've loved. The Dell Venue 8 is beautiful. My brother got a Lenovo one from a trade show and it's a magnificent piece of kit. And they would be lesser if they were running Windows 7. They just had to screw it up and make everyone and their great aunt think it sucks because they screwed up the bread-and-butter "overblown typewriter" market by having the audacity to change something. Now every little old lady I have to sell a 350$ laptop to is upset because Windows 7 isn't on there anymore, and by god Windows 7 was great and her girlfriend told her that so she knows its true don'tcha know.


Microsoft screwed up on three fronts:

1) Pre-fragmenting by going ARM and x86 without uniform experiences.  Should've emulated something somewhere to make it work.
2) Pushing the Pro on TV and marketing it to consumers when it's much better served as a professional device, both in features and price.
3) Which leads me to they charge way to farking much.  The Surface Pro starts at $700 while a Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014) runs $500.  The Venue 11 runs comparable pricewise to the Note 10.1, but that's for the Atom versions(Atom is still shiat).  The i5 version runs $850 and doesn't include Office. If I was going to spend that much just to get x86, I'd just get an Inspiron, which you can get with an i5 and a 17" display for $800(cheaper for small, if form factor is your concern).
 
2014-07-15 02:34:03 AM
One simple fact that compounds the utter stupidity of using a tablet interface for a desktop: To put it mildly, some people farking hate fingerprints on their martherfarking monitors with the fire of ten trillion suns.
 
2014-07-15 03:12:20 AM
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

I posted the picture to be cute, but I HATE Metro!

I'm Metrophobic

/new machine...love it but win 8.1 sucks and I hate it.
 
2014-07-15 03:14:58 AM

jaytkay: InterruptingQuirk: SSDs are fast enough for regular searching that indexing only wastes resources.

When 'Search' was for file names that was true

Not true for content searching.


Exactly. Once Indexing finishes (Which it does quickly enough if you don't index the whole damn drive), it's easy to find files by properties. Something like kind:picture size:>1MB AND size:<5MB  NOT type:gif will return specific results.

WinFS didn't require networking, since it was essentially a relational database (A chunk of the WinFS work found it's way into Microsoft SQL Server, though).

The problem with WinFS was poor performance when compared to more traditional filesystems when using software that is not designed around the cool things WinFS could do.
 
2014-07-15 03:15:03 AM

jaytkay: Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
[img.fark.net image 269x421]

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass


I wish I could upgrade. Whenever I try it takes me to "the store", which turns out to be a blank, green screen where nothing ever appears.

And when I just tried that on my Win8 one of the options was for a folder labeled "Comedy". I know I didn't create any such folder. Hell, I can't even figure out how to get a Command prompt anymore...
 
2014-07-15 03:19:03 AM

drumhellar: jaytkay: InterruptingQuirk: SSDs are fast enough for regular searching that indexing only wastes resources.

When 'Search' was for file names that was true

Not true for content searching.

Exactly. Once Indexing finishes (Which it does quickly enough if you don't index the whole damn drive), it's easy to find files by properties. Something like kind:picture size:>1MB AND size:<5MB  NOT type:gif will return specific results.

WinFS didn't require indexing, since it was essentially a relational database (A chunk of the WinFS work found it's way into Microsoft SQL Server, though).

The problem with WinFS was poor performance when compared to more traditional filesystems when using software that is not designed around the cool things WinFS could do.


FTFM.
 
2014-07-15 03:53:34 AM

drumhellar: jaytkay: InterruptingQuirk: SSDs are fast enough for regular searching that indexing only wastes resources.

When 'Search' was for file names that was true

Not true for content searching.

Exactly. Once Indexing finishes (Which it does quickly enough if you don't index the whole damn drive), it's easy to find files by properties. Something like kind:picture size:>1MB AND size:<5MB  NOT type:gif will return specific results.

WinFS didn't require networking, since it was essentially a relational database (A chunk of the WinFS work found it's way into Microsoft SQL Server, though).

The problem with WinFS was poor performance when compared to more traditional filesystems when using software that is not designed around the cool things WinFS could do.


Err, the problem is just poor performance.  You don't need a qualifier.  Relational databases have poor performance by design.  That's how they ensure reliability and integrity.  Hash-file systems are much faster, but hash collisions can cause problems.
 
2014-07-15 03:58:50 AM

gingerjet: And indexing on any modern Mac doesn't bog down shiat.


I'm going to call a party foul on that assertion - once you pay out the nose for the PCIE flash drive in order to run VMs the whole spotlight indexing system renders the system worthless until you start digging into settings they don't advertise.  It's even worse if the drive is encrypted.  But more importantly - it kills the goddamn battery, which is a selling point for every Mac.  It's all good as long as you aren't using the machine for anything more than browsing the web.
 
2014-07-15 05:22:03 AM
It might be free for those on W8.1.1 . The colored part looks like WP and W8.xx.x start screen mash-up.
/I hope this is the merger of WP and RT/Metro/Modern UIs(%75 shared code)
 
2014-07-15 05:24:35 AM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: jaytkay: Windows 8.1 has the perfect start menu for me. I right click and get this:
[img.fark.net image 269x421]

/ Yes, I know, the tards can't handle a text-only menu
// Microsoft will make it an enormous screen with every possible icon and pictures and make it a pain in the ass

How do you right-click on a windows tablet?


press and hold the windows icon
/Doing it on a RT now
 
2014-07-15 05:35:39 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: One simple fact that compounds the utter stupidity of using a tablet interface for a desktop: To put it mildly, some people farking hate fingerprints on their martherfarking monitors with the fire of ten trillion suns.


Because using your mouse is so hard. They came out with 8.1.1 for that. ALL apps in the store has to be Keyboard and Mouse useable. Roku thought that their newly release app could only be used with a touch screen but it works just as fine on a desktop(you just can't write a review of the app on a desktop)
/Sorry I just got up
 
2014-07-15 06:11:20 AM
Any OS that forces you to focus on it instead of your applications or data is a bad OS.
 
2014-07-15 06:18:58 AM

bhcompy: The Surface Pro starts at $700 while a Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014) runs $500.


And their demos of it are how you can use the custom pen to draw squiggles in OneNote and erase them easily.  I'm not going to pay over $700 for something to draw squiggles on.  I can do that with a $1 pad of paper.

Their biggest problem with Win8.x as a tablet remains the dearth of quality Metro applications.  Everything I can do on Android is either missing or grossly inferior on Metro. My tethering app? Missing.  Banking app? Missing. My weather app? Missing. Porn app? Missing. Exchange email client (Touchdown)? Grossly inferior and buggy, and this is a  $20 store app which is like paying $700 for Adobe Premier on a real computer.

How is Microsoft going to convince my bank to make a Metro version of their banking applet?  By having a large enough market of touch devices running the Metro UI that it's worth their developer's time.  Windows Phone has negligible market share, Windows tablets have negligible market share, and Windows 8 desktop users want nothing to do with Metro apps.  It still seems that they're losing the bet in Steve Ballmer's "bet the company" gamble. This start menu is less of a f-up than 8.RTM, but it doesn't solve the fact that Metro apps stink on a desktop.
 
2014-07-15 06:28:36 AM

pheelix: Is it better than Classic Start?  No? How about giving me some downgrade rights to Windows 7 instead. No?  Then fark you Microsoft!  I mean that in a red-faced extremely pissed off Linus Torvalds sort of way so let me rephrase that:  fark you Microsoft!


Old people like you are so funny.
 
2014-07-15 06:49:46 AM
As a 30 year-old old-man, I got a new laptop with Win8.1 over the weekend.  10 minutes of trying to fumble through the new interface was more than enough to frustrate the hell out of me and spend the next few hours installing Win7.

To underscore the old-man feature: after installing Windows 7, I then set everything to look like...Windows 95!

/booya!
 
2014-07-15 06:57:35 AM

KeatingFive: pheelix: Is it better than Classic Start?  No? How about giving me some downgrade rights to Windows 7 instead. No?  Then fark you Microsoft!  I mean that in a red-faced extremely pissed off Linus Torvalds sort of way so let me rephrase that:  fark you Microsoft!

Old people like you are so funny.


Some change is just bad change. Metro is one of those bad changes.
 
2014-07-15 07:02:15 AM

syrynxx: bhcompy: The Surface Pro starts at $700 while a Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014) runs $500.

And their demos of it are how you can use the custom pen to draw squiggles in OneNote and erase them easily.  I'm not going to pay over $700 for something to draw squiggles on.  I can do that with a $1 pad of paper.

Their biggest problem with Win8.x as a tablet remains the dearth of quality Metro applications.  Everything I can do on Android is either missing or grossly inferior on Metro. My tethering app? Missing.  Banking app? Missing. My weather app? Missing. Porn app? Missing. Exchange email client (Touchdown)? Grossly inferior and buggy, and this is a  $20 store app which is like paying $700 for Adobe Premier on a real computer.

How is Microsoft going to convince my bank to make a Metro version of their banking applet?  By having a large enough market of touch devices running the Metro UI that it's worth their developer's time.  Windows Phone has negligible market share, Windows tablets have negligible market share, and Windows 8 desktop users want nothing to do with Metro apps.  It still seems that they're losing the bet in Steve Ballmer's "bet the company" gamble. This start menu is less of a f-up than 8.RTM, but it doesn't solve the fact that Metro apps stink on a desktop.


WTF "Tethering app". Are you farking serious? Banking app why not just use a the farking real browser?
/Why use the disk space on a dumb app instead of using a REAL browser? Good games are hitting 1GBs why store 300@10-50MB shiat apps when the just could be bookmarks
 
2014-07-15 07:45:59 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: WTF "Tethering app". Are you farking serious? Banking app why not just use a the farking real browser?
/Why use the disk space on a dumb app instead of using a REAL browser? Good games are hitting 1GBs why store 300@10-50MB shiat apps when the just could be bookmarks


Well, here's a good reason: I can't use mobile deposit with a website, but I can with the app.
 
2014-07-15 07:59:47 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: syrynxx: bhcompy: The Surface Pro starts at $700 while a Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014) runs $500.

And their demos of it are how you can use the custom pen to draw squiggles in OneNote and erase them easily.  I'm not going to pay over $700 for something to draw squiggles on.  I can do that with a $1 pad of paper.

Their biggest problem with Win8.x as a tablet remains the dearth of quality Metro applications.  Everything I can do on Android is either missing or grossly inferior on Metro. My tethering app? Missing.  Banking app? Missing. My weather app? Missing. Porn app? Missing. Exchange email client (Touchdown)? Grossly inferior and buggy, and this is a  $20 store app which is like paying $700 for Adobe Premier on a real computer.

How is Microsoft going to convince my bank to make a Metro version of their banking applet?  By having a large enough market of touch devices running the Metro UI that it's worth their developer's time.  Windows Phone has negligible market share, Windows tablets have negligible market share, and Windows 8 desktop users want nothing to do with Metro apps.  It still seems that they're losing the bet in Steve Ballmer's "bet the company" gamble. This start menu is less of a f-up than 8.RTM, but it doesn't solve the fact that Metro apps stink on a desktop.

WTF "Tethering app". Are you farking serious? Banking app why not just use a the farking real browser?
/Why use the disk space on a dumb app instead of using a REAL browser? Good games are hitting 1GBs why store 300@10-50MB shiat apps when the just could be bookmarks


On my phone some apps are better or easier to use than using the browser, regardless of which browser I'm using.  On a Surface, I see your point completely.....Windows, Keyboard, Touchpad/Mouse, decent screen size.

I just hope Windows 9 gets released for next to nothing like 8 was* because I'm tired of going to alternate sources to get an OS to play a few games.

I like 8, but only after installing 3rd party programs just like I've even done on any OS ever....includes Linux, Android, OS9, Windows, BSD, BeOS, ReactOS, Haiku....

As for WinFS...Dammit MS, just rip off BTRFS or buy the rights to use ZFS.  Both do all the crap they want WinFS to do and they're already here and work.  Hell, even EXT3 would be better than NTFS.  NTFS and Fat32 just suck.

*that's when compared to the traditional bend-over-and-we're-not-using-lube-or-giving-a-reach-around price of Windows.
 
2014-07-15 08:09:58 AM

InterruptingQuirk: Lsherm: InterruptingQuirk: We used to have a lot of fun running the 4000 series builds of Longhorn, waiting especially for the new file system which would make searching a painless thing. . .

I'm all for Microsoft's new file system, but after seeing some of the downsides of Apple's and MS's continuous indexing I hope they find some sweet spot between providing for search and keeping the OS from getting bogged down if you do scads of file operations at once.

I had turned off the indexing function for a long time, but now it seems to make search dependent on it and will search ceases to function if you turn off indexing. I was really looking forward to WinFS. It would be nice to turn off indexing and keep search at this point. SSDs are fast enough for regular searching that indexing only wastes resources.


I use agent ransack for searching. It`s about 5 times faster than the built in search and doesn`t index either.

I`ll be sticking with 7 until it`s in the state XP was about 5 years ago. Still secure, still being patched, about to die. Then I may upgrade or maybe Linux will be better by then.
 
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