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(Yahoo)   Cavaliers, Heat complete trade of Lebron James for Luol Deng. Dang   (sports.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Luol Deng, LeBron James, Miami Heat, Danny Granger, Udonis Haslem, Chris Andersen, killer, Chris Bosh  
•       •       •

1423 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Jul 2014 at 7:05 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-15 07:18:24 AM  
...dong?
 
2014-07-15 07:31:17 AM  
blogs.miaminewtimes.com
 
2014-07-15 07:38:49 AM  
Best part of the LeBron trade?

Less nonsense from all those "die hard Heat fans" on Fark.

Though I'm probably wrong about that.  I think it was Spoelstra's brilliant system that made them so good.  Definitely not just individual heroics from one player.  I'm sure they'll be right back in the final next year.  They play basketball the right way......
 
2014-07-15 07:55:45 AM  

xanadian: ...dong?


x1.fjcdn.com
 
2014-07-15 08:15:39 AM  
Gar and Pax are laughing all the way to the bank.

//Miss the Dengbang,
 
2014-07-15 08:16:18 AM  
o/u on how many games Spoelstra coaches next year before he's fired?  I'm going with 25, tops.
 
2014-07-15 08:23:00 AM  

veedeevadeevoodee: [blogs.miaminewtimes.com image 300x215]


That picture makes me sad.
 
2014-07-15 08:23:00 AM  

xanadian: ...dong?


i1045.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-15 08:32:15 AM  
Nice pick up by the Heat.
 
2014-07-15 08:35:26 AM  

The Muthaship: I think it was Spoelstra's brilliant system that made them so good.


LULZ
 
2014-07-15 08:38:32 AM  

Gunny Highway: Nice pick up by the Heat.


Very good player if healthy, but a lot of miles on those legs & knees. Great guy in the locker room & community. Might have made a nice impact on the Heat...in the 2013-14 season.
 
2014-07-15 08:52:07 AM  

cleveoh: Gunny Highway: Nice pick up by the Heat.

Very good player if healthy, but a lot of miles on those legs & knees. Great guy in the locker room & community. Might have made a nice impact on the Heat...in the 2013-14 season.


He was on the Bulls and the Cavs in 2013-2014.  They went out and got one of the best guys on the market so I am not sure how this is a bad move by them.  He plays on both ends of the floor well.

He is 29 and he has a lot left in the tank.  Active MP list.  He ranks 47th.
 
2014-07-15 08:52:47 AM  
This offseason makes the east much more interesting.  It's a fairly deep conference this year.  Unspectacular, but deep.
 
2014-07-15 09:10:42 AM  

xanadian: ...dong?


dung?
 
2014-07-15 09:16:40 AM  
LUOL, that's funny.
 
2014-07-15 09:51:22 AM  
Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF
 
2014-07-15 09:55:06 AM  

p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF


Indiana?  They are your favorite in the East?  After the last 6 months?
 
2014-07-15 09:56:44 AM  

p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF


Yeah, the Bulls did everything they could to land Melo, but money won out in the end. I don't think they're done making moves, though - they have a lot of redundancy of similar players.
 
2014-07-15 09:59:07 AM  

Orgasmatron138: p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF

Yeah, the Bulls did everything they could to land Melo, but money won out in the end. I don't think they're done making moves, though - they have a lot of redundancy of similar players.


Funny thing about Melo?  People killed him when he left Denver to go to NY "to win" and now people are killing him for staying in NY for the money.
 
2014-07-15 10:03:42 AM  

cleveoh: Gunny Highway: Nice pick up by the Heat.

Very good player if healthy, but a lot of miles on those legs & knees. Great guy in the locker room & community. Might have made a nice impact on the Heat...in the 2013-14 season.


He is a great player, as long as it is a contract year. When it is time to renew that contract that dude is out there playing hurt, hustling for loose balls, just out there ballin. When he is in the middle of his contract his level goes down tremendously. The Heat did the right thing with him, keep him on a short contract and make him prove his worth every season. That is how you are going to consistently get the best out of him.
 
2014-07-15 10:19:57 AM  
Doesn't matter. The East will be as horrible as it was this past season.
 
2014-07-15 10:34:55 AM  
...walla walla bing-bang?
 
2014-07-15 10:37:09 AM  

Gunny Highway: cleveoh: Gunny Highway: Nice pick up by the Heat.

Very good player if healthy, but a lot of miles on those legs & knees. Great guy in the locker room & community. Might have made a nice impact on the Heat...in the 2013-14 season.

He was on the Bulls and the Cavs in 2013-2014.  They went out and got one of the best guys on the market so I am not sure how this is a bad move by them.  He plays on both ends of the floor well.

He is 29 and he has a lot left in the tank.  Active MP list.  He ranks 47th.


Wanna know why he's low on that list? It's because he's missed 20% of possible games due to injury and his shooting has gotten worse over the last few years. He's not bad on a two year deal, but there is a reason why teams weren't knocking down his door. His per year salary is a premium because of the short contract because of his age and injury issues. It's the exact same thing (and contract) the Pacers did with David West a few years ago when he was coming off the ACL injury. His contract more or less puts Deng on the same valuation as Trevor Ariza.

 There's are reason Parsons and Hayward are getting way more. Deng wasn't even a top 3 SF option.
 
2014-07-15 10:45:25 AM  

veedeevadeevoodee: [blogs.miaminewtimes.com image 300x215]


Bienvenidos a Miami.  Go fer dick?
 
2014-07-15 11:03:05 AM  
ongbok:
He is a great player, as long as it is a contract year. When it is time to renew that contract that dude is out there playing hurt, hustling for loose balls, just out there ballin. When he is in the middle of his contract his level goes down tremendously. The Heat did the right thing with him, keep him on a short contract and make him prove his worth every season. That is how you are going to consistently get the best out of him.

Yep, dogging it mid contract is how you become one of Thib's favorite players....
 
2014-07-15 11:03:34 AM  

redmid17: There's are reason Parsons and Hayward are getting way more. Deng wasn't even a top 3 SF option.


Can either of those guys defend better than Deng?  The Hayward thing is really strange to me.

He will no longer by in Thibs system so one can expect the wear and tear to be much less.  Miami has proven they will rest talent so they are ready to go for the playoffs.  I think this is a steal for Miami.
 
2014-07-15 11:11:00 AM  
Isn't Dang one of the three pilots who crashed the plane at SFO?
 
2014-07-15 11:12:59 AM  

Gunny Highway: He was on the Bulls and the Cavs in 2013-2014.  They went out and got one of the best guys on the market so I am not sure how this is a bad move by them.  He plays on both ends of the floor well.

He is 29 and he has a lot left in the tank.  Active MP list.  He ranks 47th


He's another guy they'll have to seriously manage minutes for along with Wade. Thibs ground his legs into a fine dust with the way he overplayed him. There's a reason the Bulls were willing to trade him, they had no plans to sign him again because while he's likely to decline or break down with someone else, he absolutely would have broken if continuing to play for the Bulls.
 
2014-07-15 11:15:16 AM  

Gunny Highway: redmid17: There's are reason Parsons and Hayward are getting way more. Deng wasn't even a top 3 SF option.

Can either of those guys defend better than Deng?  The Hayward thing is really strange to me.

He will no longer by in Thibs system so one can expect the wear and tear to be much less.  Miami has proven they will rest talent so they are ready to go for the playoffs.  I think this is a steal for Miami.


Not to my knowledge, but they are definitely on the court more often, are better shooters, and are much younger (4-5 years).

Miami proved they would rest talent when they had the talent to rest. As it stands right now, their starting 5 is Cole, Chalmers, Deng, Bosh, and Andersen. Cole or Chalmers is probably gone once they sign Napier. Even if they resign Wade and get some other players, they still aren't going to be able to rest their players as much, if at all, and both starting wings are likely to miss a good chunk of games due to injury even discounting rest. It's definitely not a bad deal for Miami, but it's a pale replacement for Lebron.
 
2014-07-15 11:25:13 AM  

redmid17: Gunny Highway: redmid17: There's are reason Parsons and Hayward are getting way more. Deng wasn't even a top 3 SF option.

Can either of those guys defend better than Deng?  The Hayward thing is really strange to me.

He will no longer by in Thibs system so one can expect the wear and tear to be much less.  Miami has proven they will rest talent so they are ready to go for the playoffs.  I think this is a steal for Miami.

Not to my knowledge, but they are definitely on the court more often, are better shooters, and are much younger (4-5 years).

Miami proved they would rest talent when they had the talent to rest. As it stands right now, their starting 5 is Cole, Chalmers, Deng, Bosh, and Andersen. Cole or Chalmers is probably gone once they sign Napier. Even if they resign Wade and get some other players, they still aren't going to be able to rest their players as much, if at all, and both starting wings are likely to miss a good chunk of games due to injury even discounting rest. It's definitely not a bad deal for Miami, but it's a pale replacement for Lebron.


If this is how you are approaching the deal I am not sure there is a conversation to be had.

Here is a comparison of the three players you mentioned.  Age is definitely a factor but I am still surprised at the interest in Hayward (shooting got worse this season) and the lack of interest in Deng.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?reques t= 1&sum=1&p1=denglu01&y1=2014&p2=haywago01&y2=2014&p3=parsoch01&y3=2014
 
2014-07-15 11:28:55 AM  

Gunny Highway: p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF

Indiana?  They are your favorite in the East?  After the last 6 months?


Nobody else wants it.
 
2014-07-15 11:32:13 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: xanadian: ...dong?

dung?


Dadgum
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-15 11:37:10 AM  

Gunny Highway: redmid17: Gunny Highway: redmid17: There's are reason Parsons and Hayward are getting way more. Deng wasn't even a top 3 SF option.

Can either of those guys defend better than Deng?  The Hayward thing is really strange to me.

He will no longer by in Thibs system so one can expect the wear and tear to be much less.  Miami has proven they will rest talent so they are ready to go for the playoffs.  I think this is a steal for Miami.

Not to my knowledge, but they are definitely on the court more often, are better shooters, and are much younger (4-5 years).

Miami proved they would rest talent when they had the talent to rest. As it stands right now, their starting 5 is Cole, Chalmers, Deng, Bosh, and Andersen. Cole or Chalmers is probably gone once they sign Napier. Even if they resign Wade and get some other players, they still aren't going to be able to rest their players as much, if at all, and both starting wings are likely to miss a good chunk of games due to injury even discounting rest. It's definitely not a bad deal for Miami, but it's a pale replacement for Lebron.

If this is how you are approaching the deal I am not sure there is a conversation to be had.

Here is a comparison of the three players you mentioned.  Age is definitely a factor but I am still surprised at the interest in Hayward (shooting got worse this season) and the lack of interest in Deng.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?reques t= 1&sum=1&p1=denglu01&y1=2014&p2=haywago01&y2=2014&p3=parsoch01&y3=2014


Showing career stats for Parsons and Hayward vs Deng is misleading, since Deng has been on a relative down spiral for the last few years. His shooting %s are buoyed by his best years in the league. Age and injury were the factors for Deng. Charlotte had a stupid amount of money to offer Hayward. They are a young team with a bunch of cap room. Utah had his bird rights and no real way to replace him. That's going to artificially inflate his value, but he's a known commodity and well-liked in Utah. His shooting when down because he started taking a lot of contested 3s. His 2 pt FG % is 45%, which isn't awesome but is fine for someone who is more a shooter than driver.

Hayward is overpriced, Parsons might be too, but I'd be very leery at giving Deng the kind of contract he was looking for. Remember he turned down the exact same salary (30 over 3 years) from the Bulls. He overvalued himself in the market.
 
2014-07-15 11:40:51 AM  

redmid17: Hayward is overpriced, Parsons might be too, but I'd be very leery at giving Deng the kind of contract he was looking for. Remember he turned down the exact same salary (30 over 3 years) from the Bulls. He overvalued himself in the market.


Welcome to the next lock out.

Isnt it kind of hard to evaluate Deng's shooting numbers from the last few years though?  He isnt a number one scorer for a team but that responsibility was thrust upon him with Rose going down.  I really think he is a tough guy to evaluate but I do know he is an above average defender and offensive player.

I guess, we will see this season though.
 
2014-07-15 11:49:29 AM  

Gunny Highway: redmid17: Hayward is overpriced, Parsons might be too, but I'd be very leery at giving Deng the kind of contract he was looking for. Remember he turned down the exact same salary (30 over 3 years) from the Bulls. He overvalued himself in the market.

Welcome to the next lock out.

Isnt it kind of hard to evaluate Deng's shooting numbers from the last few years though?  He isnt a number one scorer for a team but that responsibility was thrust upon him with Rose going down.  I really think he is a tough guy to evaluate but I do know he is an above average defender and offensive player.

I guess, we will see this season though.


I'd have been hesitant to judge him based on the last two seasons, but he did even worse in Cleveland and he wasn't the #1 option. He was the third option behind Walters and Irving.
 
2014-07-15 11:54:33 AM  

redmid17: Gunny Highway: redmid17: Hayward is overpriced, Parsons might be too, but I'd be very leery at giving Deng the kind of contract he was looking for. Remember he turned down the exact same salary (30 over 3 years) from the Bulls. He overvalued himself in the market.

Welcome to the next lock out.

Isnt it kind of hard to evaluate Deng's shooting numbers from the last few years though?  He isnt a number one scorer for a team but that responsibility was thrust upon him with Rose going down.  I really think he is a tough guy to evaluate but I do know he is an above average defender and offensive player.

I guess, we will see this season though.

I'd have been hesitant to judge him based on the last two seasons, but he did even worse in Cleveland and he wasn't the #1 option. He was the third option behind Walters and Irving.


True.  Miami is a good organization with some real structure and hierarchy. 
We will see.

I will be following him closely this season now haha.
 
2014-07-15 11:55:21 AM  

Gunny Highway: redmid17: Gunny Highway: redmid17: Hayward is overpriced, Parsons might be too, but I'd be very leery at giving Deng the kind of contract he was looking for. Remember he turned down the exact same salary (30 over 3 years) from the Bulls. He overvalued himself in the market.

Welcome to the next lock out.

Isnt it kind of hard to evaluate Deng's shooting numbers from the last few years though?  He isnt a number one scorer for a team but that responsibility was thrust upon him with Rose going down.  I really think he is a tough guy to evaluate but I do know he is an above average defender and offensive player.

I guess, we will see this season though.

I'd have been hesitant to judge him based on the last two seasons, but he did even worse in Cleveland and he wasn't the #1 option. He was the third option behind Walters and Irving.

True.  Miami is a good organization with some real structure and hierarchy. 
We will see.

I will be following him closely this season now haha.


In other news, Miami is looking to offer $15 for Wade, so that Deng contract is looking a lot better in that light.
 
2014-07-15 12:30:07 PM  

Gunny Highway: Orgasmatron138: p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF

Yeah, the Bulls did everything they could to land Melo, but money won out in the end. I don't think they're done making moves, though - they have a lot of redundancy of similar players.

Funny thing about Melo?  People killed him when he left Denver to go to NY "to win" and now people are killing him for staying in NY for the money.


Melo's move to New York was never about winning.  He wanted a bigger market for a bigger profile and more ad money.  I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think Dolan can build a winner.
 
2014-07-15 12:31:58 PM  

Gunny Highway: Funny thing about Melo? People killed him when he left Denver to go to NY "to win" and now people are killing him for staying in NY for the money.

NY has been a joke for years and people like honesty.  At least with the Yankess -- while they're not too hot these days -- they have a ridiculous legacy that still lends credibility that you're there to win and getting a huge contract is a perk.  If you shoot a ball through a hoop for a living, though, you don't go to NY to win.  If he said he was staying "to win" when they missed the playoffs last season he'd have gotten killed again.
What fans hate more than anything else is when an athlete lies to the home fanbase, then leaves for money.  I blame agents for this crap; it never fools anyone but they insist on trying anyway.  On the rare occasion an athlete shoves the agent's necktie down his throat and says it's about money, there's some Internet trolling (when is there not) but overall they're remarkably unscathed.  The idea that people resent athletes who play for money is a myth perpetuated by butthurt fanbois and stupid agents.  Most fans seem to know better.
 
2014-07-15 12:35:37 PM  

elguerodiablo: Gunny Highway: Orgasmatron138: p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF

Yeah, the Bulls did everything they could to land Melo, but money won out in the end. I don't think they're done making moves, though - they have a lot of redundancy of similar players.

Funny thing about Melo?  People killed him when he left Denver to go to NY "to win" and now people are killing him for staying in NY for the money.

Melo's move to New York was never about winning.  He wanted a bigger market for a bigger profile and more ad money.  I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think Dolan can build a winner.


Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls).
 
2014-07-15 12:38:39 PM  

redmid17: elguerodiablo: Gunny Highway: Orgasmatron138: p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF

Yeah, the Bulls did everything they could to land Melo, but money won out in the end. I don't think they're done making moves, though - they have a lot of redundancy of similar players.

Funny thing about Melo?  People killed him when he left Denver to go to NY "to win" and now people are killing him for staying in NY for the money.

Melo's move to New York was never about winning.  He wanted a bigger market for a bigger profile and more ad money.  I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think Dolan can build a winner.

Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls).


http://grantland.com/features/carmelo-anthony-new-york-knicks-legacy /

Simmons article from today.
 
2014-07-15 12:55:34 PM  

4NTLRZ: Doesn't matter. The East will be as horrible as it was this past season.


It only takes one team in the East to win it all, regardless of competitive the rest of the conference is.  The last time every one was talking trash about the East so badly, the Pistons demolished the Lakers in the Finals.
 
2014-07-15 12:59:14 PM  

T.rex: 4NTLRZ: Doesn't matter. The East will be as horrible as it was this past season.

It only takes one team in the East to win it all, regardless of competitive the rest of the conference is.  The last time every one was talking trash about the East so badly, the Pistons demolished the Lakers in the Finals.


And the East will be much better this season.
 
2014-07-15 01:14:38 PM  

Orgasmatron138: p the boiler: Meanwhile the Bulls sign Gasol and pray Rose is half of what he was - with this they are confident they can lose to Indiana in the ECF

Yeah, the Bulls did everything they could to land Melo, but money won out in the end. I don't think they're done making moves, though - they have a lot of redundancy of similar players.


Mirotich and McDermott were solid adds as well. The Bulls are going to be much better than years past.

With a deep bench, a-la "Bench mob" years, Thibs might rest a few guys every now and then.
 
2014-07-15 01:22:07 PM  

redmid17: Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls


He'd have been a fine fit for the Bulls but it was a lot more than an extra 30 million unless they could have managed a sign-and-trade.
 
2014-07-15 01:27:16 PM  

GQueue: redmid17: Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls

He'd have been a fine fit for the Bulls but it was a lot more than an extra 30 million unless they could have managed a sign-and-trade.


Pairing two players with a 30+ usage rate is a bad idea, especially when one generates a lot of assists and the other needs/uses the ball in his hands for an extended time to generate his shot.
 
2014-07-15 01:32:37 PM  

redmid17: GQueue: redmid17: Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls

He'd have been a fine fit for the Bulls but it was a lot more than an extra 30 million unless they could have managed a sign-and-trade.

Pairing two players with a 30+ usage rate is a bad idea, especially when one generates a lot of assists and the other needs/uses the ball in his hands for an extended time to generate his shot.


I would say that Westbrook/Durant is the exception to this rule, but Durant plays a different type of game than Melo does and is a much more efficient scorer.
 
2014-07-15 03:08:04 PM  

redmid17: GQueue: redmid17: Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls

He'd have been a fine fit for the Bulls but it was a lot more than an extra 30 million unless they could have managed a sign-and-trade.

Pairing two players with a 30+ usage rate is a bad idea, especially when one generates a lot of assists and the other needs/uses the ball in his hands for an extended time to generate his shot.


I'd be curious to see how Melo's game changed (if at all) if he ever gets to play with a really good distributor / primary option.

While he's had a lot of talent around him at times, he's always been the man.  Hard to knock his ball-hogginess when the next option is like, old tired AI or jr smith or something.
 
2014-07-15 03:25:56 PM  

Dafatone: redmid17: GQueue: redmid17: Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls

He'd have been a fine fit for the Bulls but it was a lot more than an extra 30 million unless they could have managed a sign-and-trade.

Pairing two players with a 30+ usage rate is a bad idea, especially when one generates a lot of assists and the other needs/uses the ball in his hands for an extended time to generate his shot.

I'd be curious to see how Melo's game changed (if at all) if he ever gets to play with a really good distributor / primary option.

While he's had a lot of talent around him at times, he's always been the man.  Hard to knock his ball-hogginess when the next option is like, old tired AI or jr smith or something.


Well, you could look at his performances on Team USA, where he's probably the 3rd best player in the world.
 
2014-07-15 03:32:05 PM  

Neeek: Dafatone: redmid17: GQueue: redmid17: Yep. Hard to argue with an extra 30 million when you'd be a bad fit for your primary suitor and your wife doesn't want to leave NY (and has you by the balls

He'd have been a fine fit for the Bulls but it was a lot more than an extra 30 million unless they could have managed a sign-and-trade.

Pairing two players with a 30+ usage rate is a bad idea, especially when one generates a lot of assists and the other needs/uses the ball in his hands for an extended time to generate his shot.

I'd be curious to see how Melo's game changed (if at all) if he ever gets to play with a really good distributor / primary option.

While he's had a lot of talent around him at times, he's always been the man.  Hard to knock his ball-hogginess when the next option is like, old tired AI or jr smith or something.

Well, you could look at his performances on Team USA, where he's probably the 3rd best player in the world.


Rule set and level of competition would render those fairly meaningless, imo.  Even if you isolate it against the best countries in the world (argentina, spain, greece (?)), it's still going to be a small sample size that could can't meaningfully extrapolate against. It's probably fewer than 10 games, and that's not even accounting for minutes played.
 
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