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(Uproxx)   Joss Whedon hand drew a new Buffy episode on a napkin for a fan because Joss Whedon is the best   (uproxx.com) divider line 49
    More: Cool, Joss Whedon, highest-grossing films  
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3875 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 14 Jul 2014 at 1:23 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-07-14 10:23:23 AM  
And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.
 
2014-07-14 01:24:31 PM  
The napkin was then promptly cancelled by Fox.
 
2014-07-14 01:26:38 PM  
Harry-potter-like typing detected
 
2014-07-14 01:26:47 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.


I read a few of the Buffy ones. They were weird. Buffy shacked up with an Italian billionaire and Dawn became a giant from what I recall.
 
2014-07-14 01:29:21 PM  

amindtat: The napkin was then promptly cancelled by Fox.


You the man!
 
2014-07-14 01:29:22 PM  

amindtat: The napkin was then promptly cancelled by Fox.


First, they aired the panels out of order.
 
2014-07-14 01:29:39 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.


No, that's a pretty fair assessment of the Buffy comics that continued the story after the show ended. It's like the writers figured that since they don't have the budgetary restraints on story like they did on the show they'd do these insane storylines that they would never have had the effects budget for, and they pretty well suck.
 
2014-07-14 01:31:08 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

No, that's a pretty fair assessment of the Buffy comics that continued the story after the show ended. It's like the writers figured that since they don't have the budgetary restraints on story like they did on the show they'd do these insane storylines that they would never have had the effects budget for, and they pretty well suck.


The Angel comics were even worse.
 
2014-07-14 01:37:18 PM  
I wonder what he will do with the Star Wars movies.
 
2014-07-14 01:37:48 PM  

Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Dingleberry Dickwad: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

No, that's a pretty fair assessment of the Buffy comics that continued the story after the show ended. It's like the writers figured that since they don't have the budgetary restraints on story like they did on the show they'd do these insane storylines that they would never have had the effects budget for, and they pretty well suck.

The Angel comics were even worse.


Yeah, I only made it partway through the Buffy "Season 8" comics before I said fark it, and I got maybe 2-3 issues into the Angel comics before saying fark it, and I didn't even bother with the Spike ones.
 
2014-07-14 01:38:41 PM  

BalugaJoe: I wonder what he will do with the Star Wars movies.


I was gonna make a lens-flare joke, but now I don't have to  :)
 
2014-07-14 01:45:39 PM  
Jaden Smith First of His Name: and Dawn became a giant from what I recall.

Interesting.

i.imgur.comi.imgur.com
 
2014-07-14 01:51:37 PM  
I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.
 
2014-07-14 01:51:55 PM  
Why do people keep perpetuating the typo in Josh's name?
 
2014-07-14 01:52:22 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

I read a few of the Buffy ones. They were weird. Buffy shacked up with an Italian billionaire and Dawn became a giant from what I recall.


Dawn and Xander also shacked up. This was after she became normal again. I loved Xander till he left Anya at the church.
 
2014-07-14 01:53:49 PM  

Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.


The first season is so so. Season two is much better.
 
2014-07-14 01:55:30 PM  

Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.


It takes a while to get going. The first season doesn't really solidify until the ending. The second season is spotty except for its main plot. It isn't until the third season where everything comes together.
 
2014-07-14 02:01:47 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

It takes a while to get going. The first season doesn't really solidify until the ending. The second season is spotty except for its main plot. It isn't until the third season where everything comes together.


The problem with season one was the weak main villain. It and season four sucked the most because of the weak main villain.
 
2014-07-14 02:02:59 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

I read a few of the Buffy ones. They were weird. Buffy shacked up with an Italian billionaire and Dawn became a giant from what I recall.



*Spoilers from the comics if you care about that kinda thing*


From what I recall, Dawn became a giant, then a centaur, then a porcelain doll, or some variation of that order because she broke the heart of some critter called a thricewise. Xander went all Nick Fury and was in charge of groups of Slayers, and eventually started dating Dawn right about the time Buffy decided that she wanted to try dating Xander after all those years. Apparently he also decided to hang around Dracula for a while for some reason. Willow was still with that Slayer she was with at the end of the show, but she also has sexy time with some odd magic snake girl thing in another plane of existence or something. Buffy has a bunch of look a like slayers out there pretending to be her for security reasons, I think it was one of those look a likes that was supposed to be dating the "Immortal" billionaire guy that you hear about on Angel's final season. Giles sends Faith on some mission to befriend some rogue slayer that's using her abilities to do whatever the fark she wants. Oz is married to some werewolf chick and has several kids and lives in India or something. That kid what Willow flayed alive is actually still living and teamed up with that witch that got Willow addicted to dark magic that time.
 
2014-07-14 02:04:21 PM  

Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Jaden Smith First of His Name: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

It takes a while to get going. The first season doesn't really solidify until the ending. The second season is spotty except for its main plot. It isn't until the third season where everything comes together.

The problem with season one was the weak main villain. It and season four sucked the most because of the weak main villain.


Four was an odd season. It had some of the best writing for individual episodes but totally dropped the ball on the big bad, though I do love the general's speech at the end.
 
2014-07-14 02:04:24 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Dingleberry Dickwad: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

No, that's a pretty fair assessment of the Buffy comics that continued the story after the show ended. It's like the writers figured that since they don't have the budgetary restraints on story like they did on the show they'd do these insane storylines that they would never have had the effects budget for, and they pretty well suck.

The Angel comics were even worse.

Yeah, I only made it partway through the Buffy "Season 8" comics before I said fark it, and I got maybe 2-3 issues into the Angel comics before saying fark it, and I didn't even bother with the Spike ones.


I always get mad when people say that those comics are canon, which I refuse to accept because they're terrible.  Especially since I thought the Angel TV series had such a great ending.
 
2014-07-14 02:04:41 PM  

Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Jaden Smith First of His Name: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

I read a few of the Buffy ones. They were weird. Buffy shacked up with an Italian billionaire and Dawn became a giant from what I recall.

Dawn and Xander also shacked up. This was after she became normal again. I loved Xander till he left Anya at the church.


And Buffy turned lesbian again.
 
2014-07-14 02:14:04 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Jaden Smith First of His Name: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

It takes a while to get going. The first season doesn't really solidify until the ending. The second season is spotty except for its main plot. It isn't until the third season where everything comes together.

The problem with season one was the weak main villain. It and season four sucked the most because of the weak main villain.

Four was an odd season. It had some of the best writing for individual episodes but totally dropped the ball on the big bad, though I do love the general's speech at the end.


Hush was brilliant television. It still creeps me out. The dancers that played the gentlemen nailed thier performances.
 
2014-07-14 02:27:22 PM  

Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Dawn and Xander also shacked up. This was after she became normal again.


The existence of vampires became public knowledge. Harmony became a media darling.
Buffy's slayers became a global agency for dealing with vampires.
Buffy tried having sex with a girl.

Dawn had a magic STD that caused her to change shape three times before going back to normal. Eventually she shacked up with Xander. The oddity of him having been her babysitter was addressed, but it still seems like a good deal for both of them.

Eventually, to fix the violation of the natural order of things, Buffy and Angel basically re-made the world and cut it off from magic, so that she's the only slayer again.

There was a Willow limited series which brought magic back in time for the current series of the comic, which deals with the fact that the rules of magic have been changed by all the screwing around.

Angel's series was a mess. LA became an aspect of hell on Earth. Things happened. Lorne was seen to have happy ever after. LA stopped being hell on Earth. Wesley was a ghost. Gunn was a vampire. There were other supporting cast members.The action moved to London after the events of Buffy season 8. Faith showed up. Faith and Angel basically spent twenty or so comics figuring out how to bring Giles back to life, which they did (he's  ~11 years old in the current Buffy comic).

I actually liked the Spike comics best. Spike acquired a space ship crewed by alien bugs. He had adventures in Vegas and had the biggest departure from anything happening in the other books, but I felt they were better written and more consistent than either Buffy or Angel & Faith.
 
2014-07-14 02:48:03 PM  

likefunbutnot: Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: Dawn and Xander also shacked up. This was after she became normal again.

The existence of vampires became public knowledge. Harmony became a media darling.
Buffy's slayers became a global agency for dealing with vampires.
Buffy tried having sex with a girl.

Dawn had a magic STD that caused her to change shape three times before going back to normal. Eventually she shacked up with Xander. The oddity of him having been her babysitter was addressed, but it still seems like a good deal for both of them.

Eventually, to fix the violation of the natural order of things, Buffy and Angel basically re-made the world and cut it off from magic, so that she's the only slayer again.

There was a Willow limited series which brought magic back in time for the current series of the comic, which deals with the fact that the rules of magic have been changed by all the screwing around.

Angel's series was a mess. LA became an aspect of hell on Earth. Things happened. Lorne was seen to have happy ever after. LA stopped being hell on Earth. Wesley was a ghost. Gunn was a vampire. There were other supporting cast members.The action moved to London after the events of Buffy season 8. Faith showed up. Faith and Angel basically spent twenty or so comics figuring out how to bring Giles back to life, which they did (he's  ~11 years old in the current Buffy comic).

I actually liked the Spike comics best. Spike acquired a space ship crewed by alien bugs. He had adventures in Vegas and had the biggest departure from anything happening in the other books, but I felt they were better written and more consistent than either Buffy or Angel & Faith.


You're shiatting me.  I'm glad I never bothered with that one then.  That sounds awful (despite what you said).  The Buffy and Angel ones were bad enough that I just gave up after awhile.  I kept wondering when they were going to make sense.  I realized I just might not be a comic book reader since I couldn't tell wtf was going on.
 
2014-07-14 03:02:50 PM  
Its that kind of service that earned Joss his Employee of the Month award.
 
2014-07-14 03:21:34 PM  

PillsHere: You're shiatting me. I'm glad I never bothered with that one then. That sounds awful (despite what you said). The Buffy and Angel ones were bad enough that I just gave up after awhile. I kept wondering when they were going to make sense. I realized I just might not be a comic book reader since I couldn't tell wtf was going on.


The Spike comics consistently had the same writer, somebody who, in spite of the poor job I might've done in summarizing, did a great job of capturing the character. Also, the bugs were awesome.
 
2014-07-14 05:46:06 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: DjangoStonereaver: And like most comic book adaptations of his TV shows, it stinks.

/Kidding; I've only read the FIREFLY comic books.
//They stink.

I read a few of the Buffy ones. They were weird. Buffy shacked up with an Italian billionaire and Dawn became a giant from what I recall.


She was dating The Immortal in season 5 of Angel. Spike and Angel go to Italy to "rescue" her. I can't find a relevant image so I'll just post this.

images.wikia.com
 
2014-07-14 06:27:10 PM  

Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.


Add me to the "it takes a while to get up to speed" chorus. The show is serialised, unlike say ST;TNG that hits the reset button after every episode, so it is worth watching the whole of S1 (only 12 episodes anyway) as it sets up S2 in a big way, the the S1 finale is well worth watching.
The teen slang is also far less prevalent in S2 and beyond.
 
2014-07-14 06:32:14 PM  

Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.


You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.
 
2014-07-14 06:51:34 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.


What? S2 bought us Spike and Dru, Angelus and Kendra. Great epsiodes like Surprise and Innocence, BB+B and Passion. I Only Have Eyes For You is a wonderful episode. The last two episodes are great, and again set up S3.
 
2014-07-14 07:01:14 PM  
 

Flint Ironstag: Tyrone Slothrop: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.

What? S2 bought us Spike and Dru, Angelus and Kendra. Great epsiodes like Surprise and Innocence, BB+B and Passion. I Only Have Eyes For You is a wonderful episode. The last two episodes are great, and again set up S3.



If you are going to skip right into the 3rd season, there are some that you must watch from season 1 and 2. If not only for having background in the story, but also for not missing out on some of the best episodes of the entire series.

Season 1:
Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest
Angel
The Puppet Show
Nightmares
Prophecy Girl

Season 2:
School Hard
Halloween
Lie To Me
What's My Line (1 and 2)
Surprise
Innocence
Passion
I Only Have Eyes for You
Becoming (1 and 2)
 
2014-07-14 07:02:24 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Tyrone Slothrop: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.

What? S2 bought us Spike and Dru, Angelus and Kendra. Great epsiodes like Surprise and Innocence, BB+B and Passion. I Only Have Eyes For You is a wonderful episode. The last two episodes are great, and again set up S3.


Buffy season 2 is probably my favorite season of television ever. The metaphors aren't subtle, but MAN do they work. And "I Only Have Eyes for You" may be my favorite episode.

/Don't walk away from me, biatch!!
 
2014-07-14 07:39:56 PM  

Chelle82: Flint Ironstag: Tyrone Slothrop: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.

What? S2 bought us Spike and Dru, Angelus and Kendra. Great epsiodes like Surprise and Innocence, BB+B and Passion. I Only Have Eyes For You is a wonderful episode. The last two episodes are great, and again set up S3.

Buffy season 2 is probably my favorite season of television ever. The metaphors aren't subtle, but MAN do they work. And "I Only Have Eyes for You" may be my favorite episode.

/Don't walk away from me, biatch!!


I remember an interview with Armin Shimerman where he said when he joined the show he had a long career in TV (DS9 for one) and he said he thought "lets show these kids how it's done". But after a few episodes he realised he had to raise his game to keep up with them. SMGs I quit speech in Prophecy Girl in S1 for example.
 
2014-07-14 10:15:41 PM  

Flint Ironstag: SMGs I quit speech in Prophecy Girl in S1 for example.


That speech is what got me hooked on the show. I rented the dvd's from Netflix and wasn't completely sold on it. I thought it was ok, but not something I wanted to keep watching. Until that speech. And then I had to rent the rest of the show. SMG put in a stellar performance in that speech and I wanted to see more of her work as Buffy.
 
2014-07-14 10:33:17 PM  
I watched through Buffy and Angel a few months back - for most of the first season I was thinking "and I liked this when I was younger?", although there were a number of episodes that were decent, the "valley girl" (?) speech patterns, the large amount of time spent on school cliques/being popular in school was uninteresting to me, and the "Big Bad" was evil kid who did nothing, until he brings back the old vampire, who did nothing until the final episode.

It certainly sets a much better pattern in the second season - Spike and Dru work much better as the main antagonists as they are interesting/multidimensional, and the early relationship between Xander and Cordelia is amusing, Oz is fun (although goes nowhere as a character due to the decision to make werewolves feral, although I guess part of that was not wanting to undermine Buffy as the sole powerful character in the scoobies at that point). I can't say I was ever very keen on Angelus (except in flashbacks, particularly in the B6/A3 series (I think?) when they do the events of the Boxer rebellion from the two points of view), or Kendra though.


Season 3 for me was the best (although several others are close) - the Mayor was great, and Faith was good (although I think they could have "sold" the conversion better for me), and a lot of really good individual episodes as well. Wesley (at this point, he is much better in Angel) is probably the weakest link.


Season 4 was a let down - the Initiative was kind of naff, although Spike with chip was a great side effect, of course. Buffy/Riley was never very convincing (and probably was meant to be, but that doesn't make it better to watch), and there seems a lot of dead time in/between lectures not really going anywhere. Anya returning, and the addition of Tara both are pluses (although the standard - two characters in Joss Whedon production seem happy together...clock is ticking on total annihilation of their relationship).


Season 5 was decent - Glory was fun, although the usual issues with having an all powerful character (good or bad) crops up repeatedly, "I could crush the good guys in seconds, but I am too arrogant/lazy/overconfident to bother". Dawn was an interesting idea, and it was pulled off fairly well I think. A bunch of great episodes - the middle one most obviously, although it was a bit spoiled for me by the vampire at the end.


Season 6 - probably the weakest, especially the first half of the season which largely seems to boil down to "What could be worse than being a vampire slayer? Having a proper job!". The Dawn sidestory is kind of pointless, Xander/Anya story is just a waste, The Trio are crap (deliberately, but so what) - apart from Warren who starts off a psychopath and gets worse. Then of course you have the last four episodes - the first of which being when I stopped watching when it originally aired, while it is not as bad (i.e. you can see the reason for it plotwise) if you watch the payoff in the following episodes, but by that point for me the entire nature of the show had changed in season 6 - instead of being a fairly lighthearted horror/comedy mix, it seemed to be a series of writers one-upping each other on which characters life can be made more shiat than the last writer managed.


Season 7 was okay, but the central premise of all the potential slayers arriving in practice meant lots of characters wandering around that never get enough screen time to make us care much whether they live or die. Spikes story through this season was one redeeming feature, and the insidious nature of the First Evil was quite well done, but overall the dominant nature of the "Big Bad" and the depopulation of the town kind of left the season sparse and one dimensional for me.
 
2014-07-14 10:34:48 PM  

Aezetyr: Flint Ironstag: Tyrone Slothrop: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.

What? S2 bought us Spike and Dru, Angelus and Kendra. Great epsiodes like Surprise and Innocence, BB+B and Passion. I Only Have Eyes For You is a wonderful episode. The last two episodes are great, and again set up S3.


If you are going to skip right into the 3rd season, there are some that you must watch from season 1 and 2. If not only for having background in the story, but also for not missing out on some of the best episodes of the entire series.

Season 1:
Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest
Angel
The Puppet Show
Nightmares
Prophecy Girl

Season 2:
School Hard
Halloween
Lie To Me
What's My Line (1 and 2)
Surprise
Innocence
Passion
I Only Have Eyes for You
Becoming (1 and 2)


Although it isn't a necessary episode, I love Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered from Season 2.  Otherwise those are the most important or best.  However, I'm not sure about The Puppet Show and Nightmares.  How are those important (or good)?  I'm just trying to remember what important plot points happen other than the standalone episode.  Or is it stupid Master/Darla/Angel crap?  /So boring.
 
2014-07-14 10:47:31 PM  

xria: Season 4 was a let down - the Initiative was kind of naff, although Spike with chip was a great side effect, of course. Buffy/Riley was never very convincing (and probably was meant to be, but that doesn't make it better to watch), and there seems a lot of dead time in/between lectures not really going anywhere. Anya returning, and the addition of Tara both are pluses (although the standard - two characters in Joss Whedon production seem happy together...clock is ticking on total annihilation of their relationship).


You know, actually found some parts of season 4 very satisfying.  I mean, I really hated how it was all "omg we need Buffy to save us" all the freaking time on that show, when the vampires (and many of the other nasty critters) could (and routinely were) dispatched by people other than the Slayer.  I mean, cool, she's awesome in a fight, but by the end of the series freaking XANDER was taking out a vamp here and there, and he was a total putz!

So I kinda liked the logical introduction of monster-hunting soldiers, because hey, that's really the obvious solution, and should in fact have reduced the vampire population pretty tremendously (much more so than Buffy and the Scoobies on their own).  And the thing about what's his face who dated Buffy in that season is he was like, "Oh, there's vampires?  Let me go get my gun," instead of "AAAAA I AM HELPLESS UNLESS I AM THE MAGICAL PROTAGONIST"

Um, and I hated the Slayer Council too.  The organization just flat doesn't make sense in the way it operates (massive resources, but Buffy has to work at a fast food joint?  Wouldn't she kill MORE vampires if she didn't have to spend 40 hours a week at Doublemeat Palace?)
 
2014-07-14 10:49:35 PM  

xria: Season 6 - probably the weakest, especially the first half of the season which largely seems to boil down to "What could be worse than being a vampire slayer? Having a proper job!". The Dawn sidestory is kind of pointless, Xander/Anya story is just a waste, The Trio are crap (deliberately, but so what) - apart from Warren who starts off a psychopath and gets worse. Then of course you have the last four episodes - the first of which being when I stopped watching when it originally aired, while it is not as bad (i.e. you can see the reason for it plotwise) if you watch the payoff in the following episodes, but by that point for me the entire nature of the show had changed in season 6 - instead of being a fairly lighthearted horror/comedy mix, it seemed to be a series of writers one-upping each other on which characters life can be made more shiat than the last writer managed.


Whedon more or less left the show at this point to do Firefly (if I recall) and left Marti Noxon in charge.

Had he been more hands-on I don't think we would've seen an entire season based on Spike raping Buffy and nobody caring.
 
2014-07-14 10:53:16 PM  

PillsHere: Aezetyr: Flint Ironstag: Tyrone Slothrop: Cybernetic: I tried watching the first couple of episodes of Buffy on Netflix, and I couldn't get into it. The dialogue was heavy on late-1990s teen slang, and stuff like that doesn't hold up well (IMHO). It seemed very dated and was a bit off-putting.

And I'm a big fan of Firefly, so this is not just Whedon-hating. I actually wanted to like the show; I just didn't.

You really should start with the 3rd season. The 1st two weren't that great.

What? S2 bought us Spike and Dru, Angelus and Kendra. Great epsiodes like Surprise and Innocence, BB+B and Passion. I Only Have Eyes For You is a wonderful episode. The last two episodes are great, and again set up S3.


If you are going to skip right into the 3rd season, there are some that you must watch from season 1 and 2. If not only for having background in the story, but also for not missing out on some of the best episodes of the entire series.

Season 1:
Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest
Angel
The Puppet Show
Nightmares
Prophecy Girl

Season 2:
School Hard
Halloween
Lie To Me
What's My Line (1 and 2)
Surprise
Innocence
Passion
I Only Have Eyes for You
Becoming (1 and 2)

Although it isn't a necessary episode, I love Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered from Season 2.  Otherwise those are the most important or best.  However, I'm not sure about The Puppet Show and Nightmares.  How are those important (or good)?  I'm just trying to remember what important plot points happen other than the standalone episode.  Or is it stupid Master/Darla/Angel crap?  /So boring.


I was on the fence about BBnB, I'll add that one in for the same reason that The Puppet Show is on the list: fun. Wonderful dark humor abounds in that ep. Also, it kinda gives the first indication that Buffy truly realizes that most slayers don't live long. Plus Giles gives one of his best lines of the series "it's nice having someone else explain these things...".

I enjoy Nightmares because it fills out some of the character stuff that's hidden away, behind the scenes. Makes the characters a lot more "real" instead of an actor reading a script. One of the best ways to do that is to make the characters live their worst fears.
 
2014-07-14 10:55:34 PM  
But we can all agree that we liked Once More with Feeling right?
 
2014-07-14 10:56:35 PM  

lamecomedian: xria: Season 4 was a let down - the Initiative was kind of naff, although Spike with chip was a great side effect, of course. Buffy/Riley was never very convincing (and probably was meant to be, but that doesn't make it better to watch), and there seems a lot of dead time in/between lectures not really going anywhere. Anya returning, and the addition of Tara both are pluses (although the standard - two characters in Joss Whedon production seem happy together...clock is ticking on total annihilation of their relationship).

You know, actually found some parts of season 4 very satisfying.  I mean, I really hated how it was all "omg we need Buffy to save us" all the freaking time on that show, when the vampires (and many of the other nasty critters) could (and routinely were) dispatched by people other than the Slayer.  I mean, cool, she's awesome in a fight, but by the end of the series freaking XANDER was taking out a vamp here and there, and he was a total putz!

So I kinda liked the logical introduction of monster-hunting soldiers, because hey, that's really the obvious solution, and should in fact have reduced the vampire population pretty tremendously (much more so than Buffy and the Scoobies on their own).  And the thing about what's his face who dated Buffy in that season is he was like, "Oh, there's vampires?  Let me go get my gun," instead of "AAAAA I AM HELPLESS UNLESS I AM THE MAGICAL PROTAGONIST"

Um, and I hated the Slayer Council too.  The organization just flat doesn't make sense in the way it operates (massive resources, but Buffy has to work at a fast food joint?  Wouldn't she kill MORE vampires if she didn't have to spend 40 hours a week at Doublemeat Palace?)


S4 Restless has to be one if the finest hours BtVS put on air. It was just so magnificently twisted, beautifully shot and acted.
 
2014-07-14 10:59:01 PM  

texdent: But we can all agree that we liked Once More with Feeling right?


It's a great episode. I'm not sure whether or not it redeems the season, but the rest of the season heaping shiat on every character had to exist so that it could all come to light then. Was it ever explained why nobody in Sunnydale cared all that much that people kept bursting into song for a few days there?

/it may be bunnies
 
2014-07-14 11:00:32 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: texdent: But we can all agree that we liked Once More with Feeling right?

It's a great episode. I'm not sure whether or not it redeems the season, but the rest of the season heaping shiat on every character had to exist so that it could all come to light then. Was it ever explained why nobody in Sunnydale cared all that much that people kept bursting into song for a few days there?

/it may be bunnies


I'm sure at that point everyone in town was just used to the weirdness.
 
2014-07-14 11:08:48 PM  

xria: I watched through Buffy and Angel a few months back - for most of the first season I was thinking "and I liked this when I was younger?", although there were a number of episodes that were decent, the "valley girl" (?) speech patterns, the large amount of time spent on school cliques/being popular in school was uninteresting to me, and the "Big Bad" was evil kid who did nothing, until he brings back the old vampire, who did nothing until the final episode.

It certainly sets a much better pattern in the second season - Spike and Dru work much better as the main antagonists as they are interesting/multidimensional, and the early relationship between Xander and Cordelia is amusing, Oz is fun (although goes nowhere as a character due to the decision to make werewolves feral, although I guess part of that was not wanting to undermine Buffy as the sole powerful character in the scoobies at that point). I can't say I was ever very keen on Angelus (except in flashbacks, particularly in the B6/A3 series (I think?) when they do the events of the Boxer rebellion from the two points of view), or Kendra though.


Season 3 for me was the best (although several others are close) - the Mayor was great, and Faith was good (although I think they could have "sold" the conversion better for me), and a lot of really good individual episodes as well. Wesley (at this point, he is much better in Angel) is probably the weakest link.


Season 4 was a let down - the Initiative was kind of naff, although Spike with chip was a great side effect, of course. Buffy/Riley was never very convincing (and probably was meant to be, but that doesn't make it better to watch), and there seems a lot of dead time in/between lectures not really going anywhere. Anya returning, and the addition of Tara both are pluses (although the standard - two characters in Joss Whedon production seem happy together...clock is ticking on total annihilation of their relationship).


Season 5 was decent - Glory was fun, alth ...


****Spoiler Warning*****

I guess I'm weird, but I quite like Season 6.  It's depressing as hell, but there is a realness and a rawness there that I appreciate.  The only thing that really makes no sense to me is Xander leaving Anya at the alter.  I mean I know they hinted at him being a bit of a commitment phobe in Seasons 4 and 5, but it still seemed to come out of nowhere at that point seeing as how close they were throughout the season.

Season 7 is the one I struggle to get through.  I find the Spike stuff utterly boring (and I actually love his character).  However, his whole being used by the First thing just does nothing for me.  The potentials are also annoying.  That season could have done with a bit more standalones and lightheartedness while still building up to the First.  Unfortunately the standalones they did have were weak at best (although Him has its moments and Same Time Same Place is kind of interesting).  The First just reminds me of what I hated about the Master scenes (endless talking about evil plans) combined with the lack of personality of Adam.  It doesn't really become interesting until they bring in Caleb because he was at least an interesting bad guy (also Nathan Fillion is awesome).

And Amber Benson really should have just swallowed her pride and participated in the final season like everyone else.  She just made herself look kind of petty in my opinion (and I don't buy for a second her excuse about not wanting to traumatize the audience).  Her lack of appearance actually made the First less convincing for me.

Storyteller is probably my favorite episode from Season 7 (other than the finale).  Andrew was a great add in my opinion.
 
2014-07-14 11:09:45 PM  

texdent: I'm sure at that point everyone in town was just used to the weirdness.


Probably gangs hopped up on PCP.
 
2014-07-14 11:16:16 PM  
I didn't hate Season 7. It was ok in that it did get back to what the series was about. A girl fighting monsters, which in my opinion, it strayed from in Season 6. And I liked season 6, but it was depressing as hell and the troika were annoying. But what I really loved about Season 7 was Faith coming back. She was always my favorite character and she and Buffy needed some closure. Besides, her arc starting on Angel, which helped redeem the character, was brilliant.
 
2014-07-14 11:22:18 PM  

PillsHere: Storyteller is probably my favorite episode from Season 7 (other than the finale). Andrew was a great add in my opinion.


You can fault Whedon for a lot of things, but casting is never one of them.

The main crews always work perfectly together.
 
2014-07-15 12:16:26 AM  

lamecomedian: xria: Season 4 was a let down - the Initiative was kind of naff, although Spike with chip was a great side effect, of course. Buffy/Riley was never very convincing (and probably was meant to be, but that doesn't make it better to watch), and there seems a lot of dead time in/between lectures not really going anywhere. Anya returning, and the addition of Tara both are pluses (although the standard - two characters in Joss Whedon production seem happy together...clock is ticking on total annihilation of their relationship).

You know, actually found some parts of season 4 very satisfying.  I mean, I really hated how it was all "omg we need Buffy to save us" all the freaking time on that show, when the vampires (and many of the other nasty critters) could (and routinely were) dispatched by people other than the Slayer.  I mean, cool, she's awesome in a fight, but by the end of the series freaking XANDER was taking out a vamp here and there, and he was a total putz!

So I kinda liked the logical introduction of monster-hunting soldiers, because hey, that's really the obvious solution, and should in fact have reduced the vampire population pretty tremendously (much more so than Buffy and the Scoobies on their own).  And the thing about what's his face who dated Buffy in that season is he was like, "Oh, there's vampires?  Let me go get my gun," instead of "AAAAA I AM HELPLESS UNLESS I AM THE MAGICAL PROTAGONIST"

Um, and I hated the Slayer Council too.  The organization just flat doesn't make sense in the way it operates (massive resources, but Buffy has to work at a fast food joint?  Wouldn't she kill MORE vampires if she didn't have to spend 40 hours a week at Doublemeat Palace?)


The Initiative on its own, makes sense in the universe presented, but I don't think it added a lot on the monster killing front, as it takes away from the tension of the Slayer and friends saving the world, instead they can just sit in Psych 101 classes and largely ignore the main idea of the show, or not, it doesn't matter much. As a kind of background uneasy ally they could sometimes fall back on when they aren't suited to the monster of the week (or clash with having different objectives), it might have worked better, rather than it being such a prominent part of the season. But the main problem is the inverse: no real "Big Bad" for the season - obviously you get the hints that something bad is going on in there, but nothing really happens until the last couple of episodes. It is not a bad season, but it just feels a bit disjointed/directionless to me.


I guess part of it is the Alien vs Aliens thing - a story about a government organization taking down vampires and other monsters and developing technology to keep pace with them would work (and probably has - it is not far off Stargate SG1, and there are probably better examples that aren't coming to mind), but for me it doesn't mix well with the story of a small plucky group of individuals alone against everything from their nightmares.


I certainly agree about the Council, they seem more of an antagonist trying to perpetually undermine the slayer rather than actually being concerned about saving the world - your example from episode 6, or the one where they abduct her, lock her up with a starving vampire and no weapons, and completely undermine her trust of her watcher into the bargain, or "Slayer and Watcher are starting to work well together - lets swap to a new Watcher, can't have any of that".
 
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